Wide Receiver v. Fast n Furious - for the morons blaming Bush

[240 is Back]

Show me where they lost 400 guns? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

2006-2007)  Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[22] These included AR-15s, semi-automatic AK-pattern rifles, and Colt .38s. The vast majority of the guns were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[7][23][25]

[Soul Crusher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

2006-2007)  Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[22] These included AR-15s, semi-automatic AK-pattern rifles, and Colt .38s. The vast majority of the guns were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[7][23][25]

Lost is one thing and that was not the intent!

FnF was intentional! 

[Shockwave]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

2006-2007)  Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.[22] These included AR-15s, semi-automatic AK-pattern rifles, and Colt .38s. The vast majority of the guns were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.[7][23][25]

It says eventually lost. How long is eventually? After the Op was shut down?
You said they were lost the 2nd they went over the boarder.

[240 is Back]

It says eventually lost. How long is eventually? After the Op was shut down?
You said they were lost the 2nd they went over the boarder.

ah, I see.

So we're now arguing about how fast this dude lost track of 450 guns.

THAT is the crux of your argument.  Gotcha.  This dickhead deserved to keep his job - and later spearhead the F&F operation on a much larger scale.

Hey, it's cool to say "Bush should have fired his ass" or "He should have been demoted to mail room". 

[Agnostic007]

It says eventually lost. How long is eventually? After the Op was shut down?
You said they were lost the 2nd they went over the boarder.

I'm missing why it matters how long it took to lose the 400 guns... the results would be the same wouldn't it?

[Shockwave]

ah, I see.

So we're now arguing about how fast this dude lost track of 450 guns.

THAT is the crux of your argument.  Gotcha.  This dickhead deserved to keep his job - and later spearhead the F&F operation on a much larger scale.

Hey, it's cool to say "Bush should have fired his ass" or "He should have been demoted to mail room". 

Incorrect. I asked you for specifics.
One op that failed due to unforseen problems (and shut down as soon as the failure was apparent) is not the same as an Op planned to fail from the beginning, that cost the life of a US border patrol agent (that wasnt shut down until their cover was blown, rather than when it failed, which was in the PLANNING STAGE).

There was actually an attempt to follow the firearms from WR.
There was NO attempt to follow the firearms for F&F. Hell, there was no PLANNING on following the firearms.

How you think the 2 are even remotely comparable besides the fact that firearms are missing, is beyond me broham.
Thats like looking at a cheescake and a ice cream cake and saying "Well theyre the same, theyre both cakes"

[Shockwave]

I'm missing why it matters how long it took to lose the 400 guns... the results would be the same wouldn't it?

My point was that 240 was intentionally lying again. It had nothing really to do with the weapons being lost.

WIKI said the 400 or so guns were lost the minute they crossed the border.  

Now this is important, because during WR, they actually were attempting to follow the firearms across the border.
In FF, they were not, so the weapons literally disappeared the moment they crossed.

With 240 trying so hard to draw comparisons between 2 ops that failed for totally different reasons, this becomes important.

[Agnostic007]

My point was that 240 was intentionally lying again. It had nothing really to do with the weapons being lost.

oh... Cool.

[240 is Back]

450 guns were lost in mexico.  that dude kept his job.  he was allowed to run the next op, where 2000 guns were lost in mexico.

To me, when a guy loses 450 guns, you don't give him the opportunity to lose 2000 guns.  That's just me, though.

We don't know what crime those 450 guns were involved with - let's admit, ,F&F was rare to have a rifle with serial numbers DROPPED at scene of crime.  Kinda fishy there, to be hoenst.

But back to the point, if an employee loses 450 guns, you don't trust him with 2000 more.

[Soul Crusher]

I'm missing why it matters how long it took to lose the 400 guns... the results would be the same wouldn't it?

Because many were fitted w actual gps devices and there was actual tracing.  

the entire goal of FnF was to not trace the weapons until they ended up at a murder scene.  


180 is again trolling , lying, shilling, and trying to divert attention away from the stark differences here.  

[Shockwave]

450 guns were lost in mexico.  that dude kept his job.  he was allowed to run the next op, where 2000 guns were lost in mexico.

To me, when a guy loses 450 guns, you don't give him the opportunity to lose 2000 guns.  That's just me, though.

We don't know what crime those 450 guns were involved with - let's admit, ,F&F was rare to have a rifle with serial numbers DROPPED at scene of crime.  Kinda fishy there, to be hoenst.

But back to the point, if an employee loses 450 guns, you don't trust him with 2000 more.

Exactly. And guess what? Holder, Obama, whoever is responsible, gave this man the opportunity to do the same thing again, only 1000x worse. Who's fault is that? The man? Or the people holding his leash?

Thats the point IMHO, and one you dont seem to grasp.

Youre trying to treat the symptom, not the underlying problem.

[dario73]

ah, I see.

So we're now arguing about how fast this dude lost track of 450 guns.

THAT is the crux of your argument.  Gotcha.  This dickhead deserved to keep his job - and later spearhead the F&F operation on a much larger scale.

Hey, it's cool to say "Bush should have fired his ass" or "He should have been demoted to mail room". 

So what if Bush didn't fire him?

What the hell does that have anything to do with F&F and the Democrats covering for Holder and the President?

Change. Remember that? I thought Dems fancied themselves being BETTER than the GOP.

[Agnostic007]

Because many were fitted w actual gps devices and there was actual tracing.  

the entire goal of FnF was to not trace the weapons until they ended up at a murder scene.  


180 is again trolling , lying, shilling, and trying to divert attention away from the stark differences here.  

But.... many were not? Any operation where they allow weapons to go into the hands of the cartel is stupid is it not?

[240 is Back]

Because many were fitted w actual gps devices and there was actual tracing.  

i thought the GPS devices failed due to battery life.  They worked in 2006 but failed in 2008, 2009?

Either you are okay with this LEO strategy of losing guns to bad guys over the border - or youre not.

You're not "okay" with it in 2006 because its only 450 guns, and ready to impeach in 2008 because it's 2000 guns.

[Soul Crusher]

450 guns were lost in mexico.  that dude kept his job.  he was allowed to run the next op, where 2000 guns were lost in mexico.

To me, when a guy loses 450 guns, you don't give him the opportunity to lose 2000 guns.  That's just me, though.

We don't know what crime those 450 guns were involved with - let's admit, ,F&F was rare to have a rifle with serial numbers DROPPED at scene of crime.  Kinda fishy there, to be hoenst.

But back to the point, if an employee loses 450 guns, you don't trust him with 2000 more.

that is why the program was shut down moron!  

[Shockwave]

So what if Bush didn't fire him?

What the hell does that have anything to do with F&F and the Democrats covering for Holder and the President?

Change. Remember that? I thought Dems fancied themselves being BETTER than the GOP.

Whats worse? Bush not firing him, or Holder/Obama giving him the thumbs up to do it again on a much more retarded scale?
Giving him the thumbs up for a much more poorly planned, yet much larger operation that already had failed once?

People fuck up. Theyre not always instantly fired. And its not black and white, well "youre ok with WR so youre ok now", thats retarded.
One op was attempted. It botched. They shut it down.
Doing it again? Completely retarded.

[Soul Crusher]

Whats worse? Bush not firing him, or Holder/Obama giving him the thumbs up to do it again on a much more retarded scale?
Giving him the thumbs up for a much more poorly planned, yet much larger operation that already had failed once?

People fuck up. Theyre not always instantly fired. And its not black and white, well "youre ok with WR so youre ok now", thats retarded.
One op was attempted. It botched. They shut it down.
Doing it again? Completely retarded.

180 is so far gone its not funny.   And I know why too. 

He still is reeling from his 9/11 truth bullshit that he was convinced bush orchestrated and has never been the same since. 

[240 is Back]

whatever happened on 911, I believe bush was as clueless as the rest of us.

"orchestrated" = a word you learned watching billo and former truther michelle malkin.

you hang on every word alex jones says, except 911, cause you live in NYC.  and 'they wouldn't do that'.

[Soul Crusher]

whatever happened on 911, I believe bush was as clueless as the rest of us.

"orchestrated" = a word you learned watching billo and former truther michelle malkin.

you hang on every word alex jones says, except 911, cause you live in NYC.  and 'they wouldn't do that'.

no, 10 years later and still not a single shred of evidence pointing to an inside job. 

[dario73]

But.... many were not? Any operation where they allow weapons to go into the hands of the cartel is stupid is it not?

You can argue that in either operation things should have been done differently. That still doesn't justify the President and the Dems protecting Holder, the Dems preventing the Terry family from getting answers and the attorney general refusing to provide all documents and using those same documents as a bargaining chip.

Why is the supposed party of change playing politics now? I thought they were going to get rid of the games and be more TRANSPARENT.

[Agnostic007]

You can argue that in either operation things should have been done differently. That still doesn't justify the President and the Dems protecting Holder, the Dems preventing the Terry family from getting answers and the attorney general refusing to provide all documents and using those same documents as a bargaining chip.

Why is the supposed party of change playing politics now? I thought they were going to get rid of the games and be more TRANSPARENT.

I'm sorry you were misled into thinking that. It's ALWAYS politics as usual... no matter who is President   

[dario73]

I'm sorry you were misled into thinking that. It's ALWAYS politics as usual... no matter who is President   

Eh. I wasn't misled. I voted for McCain knowing that Obama was full of crap.

My posts only repeat the exaggerations made by Obama's campaign in 2008, which clearly induced a few idiots on this board to vote for him AND who will vote for him again even after he has proven to be a failure.

[Agnostic007]

Eh. I wasn't misled. I voted for McCain knowing that Obama was full of crap.

My posts only repeat the exaggerations made by Obama's campaign in 2008, which clearly induced a few idiots on this board to vote for him AND who will vote for him again even after he has proven to be a failure.

Honestly, the options aren't all that encouraging. Been voting the lesser of two evils for years.. 

[240 is Back]

no, 10 years later and still not a single shred of evidence pointing to an inside job. 

we've shown the same guy ran F&F on a much smaller scale in 2006 under Bush and was allowed to keep his job.  He lost 450 guns and nobody was busted, right?

No wonder you wanna talk about 911 LMAO.  Didn't like how this discussion was going? 

F&F happened on a smaller scale under Bush - we just don't know who the guns killed because nobody LEFT ONE SMOKING AT A CRIME SCENE.

[Soul Crusher]

we've shown the same guy ran F&F on a much smaller scale in 2006 under Bush and was allowed to keep his job.  He lost 450 guns and nobody was busted, right?

No wonder you wanna talk about 911 LMAO.  Didn't like how this discussion was going? 

F&F happened on a smaller scale under Bush - we just don't know who the guns killed because nobody LEFT ONE SMOKING AT A CRIME SCENE.

You are really a fucking idiot.   I swear 180 - you are a pathological liar and a con man.  WR WAS DONE W MEXICO AND SHUT DOWN ONCE THE PROGRAM FAILED!