Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 08:00:09 AM

Title: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 08:00:09 AM
http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year_p2.html

Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: wes on March 01, 2012, 08:02:39 AM
Nope.......cost too much as it is.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: The_Punisher on March 01, 2012, 08:14:32 AM
if you own a 2012 Mercedes E350, it wouldn't be wise to fill it up with 87. here's what Mercedez require

Fuel

Fuel type: gas
Fuel type: premium unleaded (required)Fuel tank capacity: 21.1 gal.
Range in miles (cty/hwy): 422.0/633.0 mi.
EPA mileage est. (cty/hwy): 20/30 mpg
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: kh300 on March 01, 2012, 08:21:15 AM
I do for my toys..My bike 'pings' and runs like shit on 87
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 01, 2012, 08:28:25 AM
Seems like you don't know anything about Octane and how it helps a bigger more powerful engine perform.

Take street racing cars for example.  Some gas stations sell 100 Octane gas.  It is a noticable difference in output and performance when street racing.  You wouldn't want to run it all the time in risk of blowing a gasket but it is a big difference.

Now the crappy gas is that middle 89.  Not sure why anyone needs that.

And as the poster above pointed out.  Filling a sports bike with 87 and you feel and notice the difference than using 91

So that myth is complete BULLSHIT.

91 is NOT BETTER for your engine, but some engines do require it though based on the number of ccs.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: mass243 on March 01, 2012, 08:28:46 AM


Yes, only V-Power from Shell to me.

(http://www.video-classifica.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/shell-vpower1.jpg)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: sync pulse on March 01, 2012, 08:29:50 AM
http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year_p2.html

Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)


The timing retards automatically on modern engines so as to prevent predetonation (ping/knock)...but you will lose some of the power.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: hematocritter on March 01, 2012, 08:33:11 AM
I have to run in premium in a couple of my cars, but one is supercharged and the other is turbocharged,
and they will detonate if I use less than 92 octane.
I had a z28 just after high school, it had the LS1 engine. I ran 89 in it, and the computer compensated for
the lower octane and avoided detonating, but it ended up using more fuel.
My friend always put 89 in his escalade, I told him to run premium like that 6.2 LS engine is supposed to run on,
and he did..... got 4 more mpg.

So it all depends on the engine and if it is modified or tuned in any way. Most modern high end cars' computers
will retard the timing or do other things to compensate for lower octane, but fuel mileage might suffer and
it isn't exactly good for the engine.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 08:40:40 AM
Seems like you don't know anything about Octane and how it helps a bigger more powerful engine perform.

Take street racing cars for example.  Some gas stations sell 100 Octane gas.  It is a noticable difference in output and performance when street racing.  You wouldn't want to run it all the time in risk of blowing a gasket but it is a big difference.

Now the crappy gas is that middle 89.  Not sure why anyone needs that.

And as the poster above pointed out.  Filling a sports bike with 87 and you feel and notice the difference than using 91

So that myth is complete BULLSHIT.

91 is NOT BETTER for your engine, but some engines do require it though based on the number of ccs.

If I were a race car driver or needed a performance car to earn a living I would buy premium, but since that's not me, I don't.  In 97% of cases premium fuel is totally unnecessary.  I'll pass.  ::)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: bradistani on March 01, 2012, 08:55:06 AM
does it come with more or less corn on the cob  ???
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 01, 2012, 08:58:51 AM
If I were a race car driver or needed a performance car to earn a living I would buy premium, but since that's not me, I don't.  In 97% of cases premium fuel is totally unnecessary.  I'll pass.  ::)

Why buy a car with a high performance motor and give it less performing fuel?  Doesn't make sense.  Why not run the motor at full potential?

Do your musclebear boyfriends fill up with french fries and cheese or oats and chicken breasts?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: seCrawler on March 01, 2012, 09:01:26 AM
Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)


You drive a 500 series Bimmer?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Not Sure on March 01, 2012, 09:05:02 AM
It's a common misperception to think that a car which requires premium fuel, doesn't really NEED it.   

"I put 87 in it and I get to where I need to go, and there's no warning lights...etc."   

True, cars from the last 10 years are pretty awesome in their ability to compensate for what drivers want to put in the fuel tank.  However, it's kinda like gh.....some 91 octanes are better than others, some days are better than others, etc.  So a cars computer has the ability to compensate for different qualities of premium fuel, and while that can be stretched over different octanes, it spits in the face of an efficient engine.....read both MPG and HP.

There is no cheating it.........not a statement to force guys to use premium in cars that require it, but a realization that $1 saved here is only spent there down the road, ( please save the stories of "I only lease, plan on selling it, etc." I"m talking bout' the overall concept.)

Where I can agree that it is a waste, is using premium fuel on a vehicle that requires regular 87 only.....and runs fine on 87. 

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: gatorr on March 01, 2012, 09:19:29 AM
Which fuel you should run in your vechicle is dependant on what the engines compression ratio is. My 68 chevelle has to run premium fuel as the compression ratio is 10:1. Same as my 95 firebird the manuel says to use premium or damage to the engine may occur.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: SamsonD on March 01, 2012, 09:27:18 AM
I have to run in premium in a couple of my cars, but one is supercharged and the other is turbocharged,
and they will detonate if I use less than 92 octane.
I had a z28 just after high school, it had the LS1 engine. I ran 89 in it, and the computer compensated for
the lower octane and avoided detonating, but it ended up using more fuel.
My friend always put 89 in his escalade, I told him to run premium like that 6.2 LS engine is supposed to run on,
and he did..... got 4 more mpg.

So it all depends on the engine and if it is modified or tuned in any way. Most modern high end cars' computers
will retard the timing or do other things to compensate for lower octane, but fuel mileage might suffer and
it isn't exactly good for the engine.

This.
There is a reason that high octane fuel exists.  Forced induction engines and those with higher compression ratio's(such as a crotch rocket, or any performance naturally aspirated engine), need the octane to not detonate.  My CTS "requires" premium because of it's higher compression pistons(I think it's like 10:1).  You can run it on 87 if you want to because the computer senses the shitty gas and retards the ignition timing appropriately.  It runs much better and gets better gas mileage though on 93.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 09:28:37 AM
Why buy a car with a high performance motor and give it less performing fuel?  Doesn't make sense.  Why not run the motor at full potential?

Do your musclebear boyfriends fill up with french fries and cheese or oats and chicken breasts?


Question: How often do you need to run your motor at “full potential”?  

Answer: (almost) never.

In the United States most people who buy “performance” cars do so in order to impress themselves or their friends; they are certainly not buying them because they regularly go from 0-60 in five seconds.  A few miles from where I live there is something called the Infineon Raceway where normal people may take their cars and race them around a track a high velocities.  Sounds great if one is a car enthusiast, but the truth is relatively few people (even those who consider themselves car guys with performance vehicles) make use of this facility.  
http://www.infineonraceway.com/

If one is driving a vehicle from say the 1950s, 60s, or 70s  you can test the car with both types fuel and in some cases you will notice a real difference. If that is the case then premium fuel makes sense.  Similarly, if you are determined to extract the absolute best performance possible from your car then premium fuel is a good option.  It would also make sense to put premium race tires on your car as well, but how many people are going to do that?  As I said above, if one is racecar driver or you require the absolute best performance possible from a vehicle then premium fuel is the way to go; otherwise it is a waste of money.  A surprising number of cars today claim to “require” premium fuel including the Smart car ($13,590), the Cooper Mini, many SUVs.  If you are driving one of these vehicles is peak performance and speed really your priority? ::)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 01, 2012, 09:37:02 AM

Question: How often do you need to run your motor at “full potential”?  

Answer: (almost) never.

In the United States most people who buy “performance” cars do so in order to impress themselves or their friends; they are certainly not buying them because they regularly go from 0-60 in five seconds.  A few miles from where I live there is something called the Infineon Raceway where normal people may take their cars and race them around a track a high velocities.  Sounds great if one is a car enthusiast, but the truth is relatively few people (even those who consider themselves car guys with performance vehicles) make use of this facility.  http://www.infineonraceway.com/

If one is driving a vehicle from say the 1950s, 60s, or 70s  you can test the car with both types fuel and in some cases you will notice a real difference. If that is the case the premium fuel makes sense.  Similarly, if you are determined to extract the absolute best performance possible from your car then premium fuel is a good option.  It would also make sense to put premium race tires on your car as well, but how many people are going to do that?  As I said above, if one is racecar driver or you require the absolute best performance possible from a vehicle then premium fuel is the way to go; otherwise it is a waste of money.  A surprising number of cars today claim to “require” premium fuel including the Smart car ($13,590), the Cooper Mini, many SUVs.  If you are driving one of these vehicles is peak performance really your priority? ::)


When you have sex.  Do you buy cheap lube or good lube?  lube is lube right?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: seCrawler on March 01, 2012, 09:40:30 AM

Question: How often do you need to run your motor at “full potential”?  

Answer: (almost) never.

In the United States most people who buy “performance” cars do so in order to impress themselves or their friends; they are certainly not buying them because they regularly go from 0-60 in five seconds.  A few miles from where I live there is something called the Infineon Raceway where normal people may take their cars and race them around a track a high velocities.  Sounds great if one is a car enthusiast, but the truth is relatively few people (even those who consider themselves car guys with performance vehicles) make use of this facility.  
http://www.infineonraceway.com/

If one is driving a vehicle from say the 1950s, 60s, or 70s  you can test the car with both types fuel and in some cases you will notice a real difference. If that is the case then premium fuel makes sense.  Similarly, if you are determined to extract the absolute best performance possible from your car then premium fuel is a good option.  It would also make sense to put premium race tires on your car as well, but how many people are going to do that?  As I said above, if one is racecar driver or you require the absolute best performance possible from a vehicle then premium fuel is the way to go; otherwise it is a waste of money.  A surprising number of cars today claim to “require” premium fuel including the Smart car ($13,590), the Cooper Mini, many SUVs.  If you are driving one of these vehicles is peak performance and speed really your priority? ::)


You drive a BMW.  It was purchased to impress men for booty calls, correct? 
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BIG ACH on March 01, 2012, 09:42:53 AM

On the 4-Runner I get the Mid-grade (89)

On the ML-350 I get the Premium (91)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Dreadlifter on March 01, 2012, 11:36:33 AM
Why buy a car with a high performance motor and give it less performing fuel?  Doesn't make sense. 

This.

Premium car- premium fuel. Don't have a premium car then you're just throwing away money.

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Parker on March 01, 2012, 11:43:36 AM
http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year_p2.html

Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)

My manufacturers says it's required, and it runs better on it. All my cars I have noticed run better.
I used to have a Ford Taurus that had that pinging sound when using low grade or mid grade.

I am willing to bet that you'd notice the performance difference (pep, and or sluggishness) between using prem vs mid grade or low grade.

Now, I have used low grade when gas prices go up...and my dad is cheap so he uses it all the time except in my mom's Mercedes.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 01, 2012, 11:45:33 AM
My manufacturers says it's required, and it runs better on it. All my cars I have noticed run better.
I used to have a Ford Taurus that had that pinging sound when using low grade or mid grade.

I am willing to bet that you'd notice the performance difference (pep, and or sluggishness) between using prem vs mid grade or low grade.

Now, I have used low grade when gas prices go up...and my dad is cheap so he uses it all the time except in my mom's Mercedes.

Read the words of the article.  It says run better.  Better is the key word.  Will it make a honda civic run better?  probably not.  The details are as you mentioned is if it is required or not.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: tu_holmes on March 01, 2012, 11:46:15 AM
Engineers spend thousands of hours determining what fuel works best for what type of engine.

If my engine says it requires the highest octane in the manual... I trust the engineers who built the engine know what the hell they are talking about.

However, make note that they say that based upon a minimum rating around the world.

For instance, in the UK, it's my understanding that 89 Octane is the highest, so that's what is recommended. The US has 91,92, and 93 (I've actually seen 105) octane and so we consider that the "highest".

It's just not the same around the world.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: _bruce_ on March 01, 2012, 01:13:21 PM
Premium only, though I don't really own a car
but a lawn mower... like a high octane knife through butter.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: US MUSL on March 01, 2012, 01:23:22 PM
My Vehicles.

1994 Corvette built engine 11:1 compression 93 octane
2001 Lingenfelter Twin Turbo Corvette 9 psi 93 octane
2001 Ford Lightning supercharged 15 psi no working knock sensors 93 octane
2006 Cobalt LS daily driver ~40 mpg 87 octane  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on March 01, 2012, 03:12:19 PM
There have been more than one gas station caught using the lowest grade fuel for all three grades. Can't trust any of these mother fuckers.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: deadz on March 01, 2012, 03:39:57 PM
http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year_p2.html

Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)

So does mine and I do.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Busted on March 01, 2012, 03:45:38 PM
Yes, if you drive a shitty car it takes 87...  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 03:56:14 PM
My manufacturers says it's required, and it runs better on it. All my cars I have noticed run better.
I used to have a Ford Taurus that had that pinging sound when using low grade or mid grade.

I am willing to bet that you'd notice the performance difference (pep, and or sluggishness) between using prem vs mid grade or low grade.

Now, I have used low grade when gas prices go up...and my dad is cheap so he uses it all the time except in my mom's Mercedes.


I have tried that experiment several times over the years on my last two cars.  Maybe if I was a drag racer I would notice a significant difference, but in my day-to-day driving I find the difference to be negligible.

I can imagine scenarios with certain vehicles when one would want premium fuel for maximum performance.  Just as I can imagine a time when expensive premium wheels and tires would also make a difference, but do I need that performance difference often enough to justify the expense?  No.  And neither do 97% of drivers.

The speedometer in my car goes up to 180mph!  Am I ever going to drive that fast?  No.  I haven’t even gone half that fast in the last thirty days.  Similarly, I simply do not "need" the performance boost I could get from premium fuel.   ::)  I am quite happy with my car's performance without premium fuel.

Some time ago, I recall an undercover investigation by a program like 20/20 where they scoped out an independently owned gas station and found out that all three grades of gasoline were actually coming from the exact same underground tank, but the station was charging for the two higher octanes when, in fact, there was no difference among them.  I have no reason to think this is a common practice—in fact I am sure it is not—but I think the driving habits of most people simply do not justify premium fuel.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 03:57:36 PM
There have been more than one gas station caught using the lowest grade fuel for all three grades. Can't trust any of these mother fuckers.

x2!  Suckers!  :-*
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: tu_holmes on March 01, 2012, 05:34:14 PM
There have been more than one gas station caught using the lowest grade fuel for all three grades. Can't trust any of these mother fuckers.

That's why state agencies test the content.

Ive seen people busted by it.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: aesthetics on March 01, 2012, 05:36:00 PM
only when accidentally  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 01, 2012, 06:43:17 PM
http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year_p2.html

Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)

Yes. My engine requires 91. We don't have that in Texas so I buy 93.
Don't believe bays Bullshit. If your car says 91, put 91<= in that bitch.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 01, 2012, 08:39:16 PM
In 97% of cases premium fuel is totally unnecessary.  I'll pass.  ::)

I heard someone say that statistics posted on the Internet are usually pulled out of the poster's ass. You must feel pretty sore.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
Why buy a car with a high performance motor and give it less performing fuel?  Doesn't make sense.  Why not run the motor at full potential?

The manufacturer says you should put premium fuel in both of these cars.

High performance motors?  I think not.  ::)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: gmflex on March 01, 2012, 08:49:36 PM
 Yes on high octane fuel..

Vette 2009
Mercedes ssl550

Not worth taking the risk by putting cheap gas and causing possible damage to the motor

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
I heard someone say that statistics posted on the Internet are usually pulled out of the poster's ass. You must feel pretty sore.

Irony much? ::)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 08:54:45 PM
Yes on high octane fuel..

Vette 2009
Mercedes ssl550

Not worth taking the risk by putting cheap gas and causing possible damage to the motor

Do you imagine this has ever happened to you?  :-X

There have been more than one gas station caught using the lowest grade fuel for all three grades. Can't trust any of these mother fuckers.

I was thinking about this today at the gym, and I'm starting to think this is far more common than people think.  Remember, for station owners selling gasoline is a low margin business.  That's why they sell so many extras like soda, gum, candy, snacks, and all that other crap.  That's where they make money.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 01, 2012, 09:04:49 PM

Irony much? ::)


No... that's not how irony works. It would have been ironic if I had said "97% of statistics posted on the Internet are usually pulled out of the poster's ass. You must feel pretty sore." Which is why I actually didn't say that.  ;)


The manufacturer says you should put premium fuel in both of these cars.

High performance motors?  I think not.  ::)

It's not just an issue of performance; it's also an issue of efficiency. I know that you can't tell it's happening and don't feel any difference, but in reality the computer tracks engine performance using a multitude of sensors and adjusts A/F ratios, ignition timing and a host of other parameters to compensate for the lower octate rating of the fuel.

Feel free to pump whatever quality of fuel you want in your car. But don't use the argument that "I don't feel a difference and it's not needed" as an argument to convince others. Your feelings and your evaluations aren't arguments. They're opinions. And you should save yourself the embarassment of finding out just what those opinions are worth.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: 225for70 on March 01, 2012, 09:11:14 PM
http://www.cracked.com/article_19704_6-car-myths-that-cost-you-money-every-year_p2.html

Here they list 6 Car Myths That Cost You Money.  The number one myth is that “High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine.”  Do you believe this?  Do you buy premium fuel?  I don’t.  I never have.  My car manufacturer says it’s required, but I have never bought premium fuel for any of my cars.  8)


I bought a few tankfuls of the expensive shit in my life..However, one would have to be foolish to buy high octane gas in this economy,
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 09:14:44 PM
No... that's not how irony works. It would have been ironic if I had said "97% of statistics posted on the Internet are usually pulled out of the poster's ass. You must feel pretty sore." Which is why I actually didn't say that.  ;)


It's not just an issue of performance; it's also an issue of efficiency. I know that you can't tell it's happening and don't feel any difference, but in reality the computer tracks engine performance using a multitude of sensors and adjusts A/F ratios, ignition timing and a host of other parameters to compensate for the lower octate rating of the fuel.

Feel free to pump whatever quality of fuel you want in your car. But don't use the argument that "I don't feel a difference and it's not needed" as an argument to convince others. Your feelings and your evaluations aren't arguments. They're opinions. And you should save yourself the embarassment of finding out just what those opinions are worth.

Grade: F
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 01, 2012, 09:18:05 PM
Grade: F

Oh the irony... ;)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: gmflex on March 01, 2012, 09:22:50 PM
Do you imagine this has ever happened to you?  :-X

I was thinking about this today at the gym, and I'm starting to think this is far more common than people think.  Remember, for station owners selling gasoline is a low margin business.  That's why they sell so many extras like soda, gum, candy, snacks, and all that other crap.  That's where they make money.







Just thinking about it bay you made me cring

 :'(
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Tony Doherty on March 01, 2012, 09:26:54 PM
I filled my X6 yesterday with 98 premium. It was the most expensive I have ever seen it AUST$1.69/litre
I think that is about $6.40/gallon

How much is premium in USA?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: 225for70 on March 01, 2012, 09:30:17 PM

I have tried that experiment several times over the years on my last two cars.  Maybe if I was a drag racer I would notice a significant difference, but in my day-to-day driving I find the difference to be negligible.

I can imagine scenarios with certain vehicles when one would want premium fuel for maximum performance.  Just as I can imagine a time when expensive premium wheels and tires would also make a difference, but do I need that performance difference often enough to justify the expense?  No.  And neither do 97% of drivers.

The speedometer in my car goes up to 180mph!  Am I ever going to drive that fast?  No.  I haven’t even gone half that fast in the last thirty days.  Similarly, I simply do not "need" the performance boost I could get from premium fuel.   ::)  I am quite happy with my car's performance without premium fuel.

Some time ago, I recall an undercover investigation by a program like 20/20 where they scoped out an independently owned gas station and found out that all three grades of gasoline were actually coming from the exact same underground tank, but the station was charging for the two higher octanes when, in fact, there was no difference among them.  I have no reason to think this is a common practice—in fact I am sure it is not—but I think the driving habits of most people simply do not justify premium fuel.


Many times i don't agree with you...Like when you talk about Apple Products..However, your spot on about this gas issue..
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 09:35:10 PM
Many times i don't agree with you...Like when you talk about Apple Products..However, your spot on about this gas issue..

Thanks.  ;)

But can you be more specific about what you agree with?  That premium fuel is unnecessary for the vast majority of drivers/cars?  Or that lots of random station owners are charging for higher grades of fuel but really selling you the low grade and you don't even know it?

A few years ago when I was driving across country and filling up along the way I was thinking.... that to be sold in so many thousands of locations across the country and to work in so many different kinds of automobiles and engines (cars, generators, lawn mowers, jet skis, etc.) gasoline has to effectively be the exact same product no matter where it sold or who is selling it.  Too much variation and it wouldn't work in so many different engines.  I'm not saying there is zero benefit to premium fuel, but this whole issue reminds me of that line from the Da Vinci Code, "so dark the con of man."  :-[
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 01, 2012, 09:43:20 PM
The manufacturer says you should put premium fuel in both of these cars.

High performance motors?  I think not.  ::)
It has more to do with high compression ratios and tuning. It also allows for a cleaner burn.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 09:46:02 PM
It has more to do with high compression ratios and tuning. It also allows for a cleaner burn.

I'll be thinking about that the next time I see a Smart Fortwo filling up at the gas station.  :)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 01, 2012, 09:55:02 PM
I'll be thinking about that the next time I see a Smart Fortwo filling up at the gas station.  :)
how about just not worrying about.  ;D
 But seriously, fuck smart cars. Only people trying to be cute buys those shits. 34 city/38 hwy using permium? Lame.  Get about the same MPG, 1 more hwy 4 less city, buying a civic that runs on regular. Plus civics are bigger, and built better.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 10:00:19 PM
how about just not worrying about.  ;D
 But seriously, fuck smart cars. Only people trying to be cute buys those shits. 34 city/38 hwy using permium? Lame.  Get about the same MPG, 1 more hwy 4 less city, buying a civic that runs on regular. Plus civics are bigger, and built better.

That the Smart Car requires premium fuel underscores my point and makes a mockery of the notion that one needs premium for "performance engines."  It's practically a cartoon on wheels.  ::)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: 225for70 on March 01, 2012, 10:11:50 PM

Thanks.  ;)

But can you be more specific about what you agree with?  That premium fuel is unnecessary for the vast majority of drivers/cars?  Or that lots of random station owners are charging for higher grades of fuel but really selling you the low grade and you don't even know it?

-[

I would say that its unnecessary for the 99%..
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 01, 2012, 10:29:23 PM
That the Smart Car requires premium fuel underscores my point and makes a mockery of the notion that one needs premium for "performance engines."  It's practically a cartoon on wheels.  ::)
Like I said high compression, tuning, cleaner burn. High performance is a relative term. Let's say an engine, 9:1 ratio makes 120 hp 90 tq. A company could raise the ratio to 11:1, do some tuning for higher octane gas. And get a 140 hp 110 tq. Most people see the 140hp maybe a little better mpg and think it is better ignoring the octane required.  Hell, they could start letting the engine breath. Port and hone intakes, and head/s raise the revs, beefier rods, etc. And get a "special performance version " 160 hp but lowering the tq. this is just a made up example. It is a lot more complicated then that.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 01, 2012, 10:34:39 PM

Just thinking about it bay you made me cring

 :'(

Young fool... only now... at the end... do you understand!  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Yev33 on March 01, 2012, 11:21:36 PM
As someone who works on the technical side in the auto industry for a highline manufacturer I can honestly tell you that there are engines that truly require premium fuel. You can have rough running issues which will result in check engine lights. We have had to tell owners to stop putting shit gas in their car or don't complain about your check engine light coming on and your car running rough at times. Really amazing to see someone be able to spend more 60-200k on a car and complain about the cost of premium fuel.

Now this doesn't apply to all engines. For the most part with modern engines you will get a small benefit from running premium in terms of economy and performance. How much? All depends on what you have, and you are going to have to do an expirement, at the end of which you can see if the added economy outweighs the higher gas prices.

When people talk about higher grade gas, those who know a little bit will talk about performance. But that performance comes from better efficiency in the combustion chamber, which is why if you will also see better gas milage ( provided you are conservative with the accelerator).
The two pictures that Bay posted are of the Smart car and the Acura RDX. The Acura RDX has a turbocharged engine, anything with forced induction will benefit from a higher grade gas. As far as the Smart car, their whole thing is about milage. So if using premium gets an extra 1-2 mpg, in  their minds it's worth it.  

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 02, 2012, 01:08:26 AM
That the Smart Car requires premium fuel underscores my point and makes a mockery of the notion that one needs premium for "performance engines."  It's practically a cartoon on wheels.  ::)

You are being dense... it's not just about performance; it is also for efficiency. When you're running on lower grade gasoline, the engine management system will adjust a number of parameters to prevent knocking, and may operate using sub-optimal settings. Even if you don't care about performance, you should still be concerned about the potential increased fuel consumption and/or increased emissions.

There are vehicles that legitimately require high-grade gasoline, and we're not talking supercars either. Whether you believe that is up to you. And as I said before, you may not feel that putting the recommended gasoline in a vehicle is worth while, but your feelings are just that -- feelings.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Parker on March 02, 2012, 02:38:02 AM

I have tried that experiment several times over the years on my last two cars.  Maybe if I was a drag racer I would notice a significant difference, but in my day-to-day driving I find the difference to be negligible.

I can imagine scenarios with certain vehicles when one would want premium fuel for maximum performance.  Just as I can imagine a time when expensive premium wheels and tires would also make a difference, but do I need that performance difference often enough to justify the expense?  No.  And neither do 97% of drivers.

The speedometer in my car goes up to 180mph!  Am I ever going to drive that fast?  No.  I haven’t even gone half that fast in the last thirty days.  Similarly, I simply do not "need" the performance boost I could get from premium fuel.   ::)  I am quite happy with my car's performance without premium fuel.

Some time ago, I recall an undercover investigation by a program like 20/20 where they scoped out an independently owned gas station and found out that all three grades of gasoline were actually coming from the exact same underground tank, but the station was charging for the two higher octanes when, in fact, there was no difference among them.  I have no reason to think this is a common practice—in fact I am sure it is not—but I think the driving habits of most people simply do not justify premium fuel.

My dad is so cheap, that he prices gas, and in our area, Giant, the supermarket chain, apparently has an agreement with Shell for like 5 cents off of a gallon or 5 cents off per gallon...something like that. Anyway, I have tried different places, BP, Shell, Citgo...and buying mid grade, or low grade i can tell the performance and MPG difference. BP tends to put Ethanol in their 93, and my car tends to be very responsive when i put that in it.. When I had my Taurus, you could hear the car pinging when accelerating---on high test, you didn't get that pinging or sluggishness. And one time it helped my car pass emissions, funny my dad failed it putting low grade, but once he put high test in, his passed (coincidence?)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: no one on March 02, 2012, 03:18:58 AM


dear idiot,

why would you buy a car knowing it requires 91 or better octane fuel and not fuel it with that?

i think your more the moron than those who use high octane fuels, simply because you were stupid enough to buy a car requiring a high octane fuel when your too cheap to use it.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 06:53:06 AM
This engine requires premium fuel for best performance.  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Parker on March 02, 2012, 08:02:14 AM

dear idiot,

why would you buy a car knowing it requires 91 or better octane fuel and not fuel it with that?

i think your more the moron than those who use high octane fuels, simply because you were stupid enough to buy a car requiring a high octane fuel when your too cheap to use it.
A few yrs ago, back during the Bush Administration---that time of almost 5 dollar gas, I overheard a woman complain about how high the gas was---she drove a 7 Series...
I'm thinking "you drive a 745i, you shouldn't be complaining about gas prices, your ass should be able to afford it."
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 02, 2012, 08:24:29 AM
A few yrs ago, back during the Bush Administration---that time of almost 5 dollar gas, I overheard a woman complain about how high the gas was---she drove a 7 Series...
I'm thinking "you drive a 745i, you shouldn't be complaining about gas prices, your ass should be able to afford it."
Haha
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 08:30:33 AM
Haha

That's what the station owner is thinking when he sells you regular grade fuel at the premium price--and you never know the difference. :-X
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 02, 2012, 08:36:33 AM
That's what the station owner is thinking when he sells you regular grade fuel at the premium price--and you never know the difference. :-X

more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: kh300 on March 02, 2012, 08:41:38 AM
more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)

Yes my oil cap on my car says only Mobile 1 synthetic. The owners manual makes you believe if you put any thing other then mobile into the engine it will blow up. I read on the forums they had a deal with Mobile and it makes 0 difference.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 02, 2012, 08:54:41 AM
Yes my oil cap on my car says only Mobile 1 synthetic. The owners manual makes you believe if you put any thing other then mobile into the engine it will blow up. I read on the forums they had a deal with Mobile and it makes 0 difference.
Hahaha the should make a car that says only Exxon gas ;D
A lot of companies are requiring synthetic because it improves emissions and mpg to a lesser degree. You should be able to run a blend with no problems tho.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Parker on March 02, 2012, 09:00:05 AM
more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)
As was stated and examples were given before. The car companies know what works best for the cars. You have higher compression ratios, gearing, turbos, cams, etc.

Think, a V6 Toyota Camry today had what, 275 hp? Back in the mid 90s, a V8 Camaro had that. Plus, there are different additives It's not about racing---if you want to go old school, do like my dad does, he puts in gas, and everytime, he writes down the mileage, the type of gas, how much it cost, and the MPGs. He calculates it, he doesn't use the trip computer. He has logs from 40 some yrs, each car he and my mother have driven he had kept running logs. His gas mileage according to him and his logs was better on high test than low test. But, he is cheap so he buys low grade...

When I say that there is a difference, we are not talking "oh shit", but there is marginal difference if you notice the pick up of your car when you are accelerating from the light or in traffic. Most of us are too distracted by the radio, convos, eating, drinking, to just listen. My first car was shitbox, so every ping, rattle, or knock I heard...I listened. I turned off the radio.

There are ties between the auto industry and oil industry, but a lot of them are being broken which is why you are seeing more exotic combos when it comes to alternate drivetrains---electric, hybrid, etc.

Bay, when you compare the different fuels offered by the different gas companies (I haven't), see the additives, and then put them in your car, then we can say, "Brand X fuel is the sane thru-out 87,91, and 93 octane"

it's kinda like motor oil, depending on the engine, there are different viscosity/weights that recommended, and then different brands---sometimes said brand worked with said car company in developing motor oils for their whole product line, as many companies use the same engine thru-out their line up.

You know as well as I, that there is a lot of research that goes into gas and oil. Who would a person trust when it comes to a research paper, Bay who is encrusted in Academia or the high school grad who just read "Native Son"?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: D.O.U.P on March 02, 2012, 09:37:18 AM
Does a 2000 bmw 528I need premium?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Parker on March 02, 2012, 09:46:22 AM
Does a 2000 bmw 528I need premium?
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: D.O.U.P on March 02, 2012, 11:00:07 AM
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

THANKS
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 11:08:06 AM
more and more regular car's say they need premium fuel, I am starting to think the oil companies and the car companies are tied together in profit sharing of this wasting of money on "premium fuel". 

I can understand if you are going to the race track and have a race car, but if you have a regular car, you are getting bamboozled by the car and oil industry  ;)

Bingo.  If cars as cheap as the Smart car ($13,590) are now requiring premium fuel why don’t they just eliminate the lower grades and sell one premium grade? ???
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 02, 2012, 11:52:33 AM
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

this is you :

(http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW-Service.jpg)

I wonder how much I can screw these people out of today, they have no idea what car's need, I'll just tell them all the bullshit in the world and have them over pay and over spend as much as possible so I can profit the most.

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 02, 2012, 11:56:16 AM
Bingo.  If cars as cheap as the Smart car ($13,590) are now requiring premium fuel why don’t they just eliminate the lower grades and sell one premium grade? ???

I know and bmw's, mercedes, lexus's don't need premium fuel, they will run forever on 87 grade, I don't know why people buy into it, only thing is I can think of is they got money to waste and don't think about how they spend their money.

Try taking your car to a dealership and getting a quote for a part that is broken, then take it to a good private garage and see the price difference  :o :o :o  then you will realize how bad you are getting screwed.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
Does BMW recommend it? Chances are that I6 may need it. BMW's are performance vehicles...German vehicles, at the time that e39 5 series is the standard for it's class. Fit, finish, engines, etc. If the engineers and the manual say "premium" then they know what's best for that engine and car.
Can you get away with putting low grade in it, sure? Just as you can get away with eating junk food for awhile. But, will your body perform or look it's best on junk food? No, it wouldn't. Do what they say for optimum engine performance and emissions and mileage (all aspects of performance).

If I am drag racing or delivering a live organ to a hospital in the neighboring town for transplant then I will worry about “optimum engine performance.”  If I am going to the gym, the grocery store, the day care center, and back home then I’ll settle for good enough.

Come to think of it, I have drag raced on regular fuel and done just fine. ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: US MUSL on March 02, 2012, 12:32:21 PM
How much is premium in USA?

Mid-America $3.85 93 oct
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 02, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
If I am drag racing or delivering a live organ to a hospital in the neighboring town for transplant then I will worry about “optimum engine performance.”  If I am going to the gym, the grocery store, the day care center, and back home then I’ll settle for good enough.

Come to think of it, I have dragged race on regular fuel and done just fine. ;D

how dare you do that  :(  The dealership service desk attendant would be very mad at your for that  ;D  Great post Bay, probably saving a lot of people money with this.

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 02, 2012, 12:37:22 PM
Higher octane fuel burns more slowly.  It is that simple.

As the idea goes, an engine that's designed to work with such fuel will produce a pre-detonation climate if the gas it's given is consumed too quickly during the stroke.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 12:45:57 PM
how dare you do that  :(  The dealership service desk attendant would be very mad at your for that  ;D  Great post Bay, probably saving a lot of people money with this.

Not really.  As you can see there are guys here who have convinced themselves that premium is the only fuel they can put in their car and certainly nothing I say or post here is going to change their minds.  Still, on some level they have to know that one (or many) stations over the years have suckered them without them even knowing it by selling them premium fuel even though it was coming from the same tank of regular gas in the underground tank.  The more I think about this the more I think it is a widespread practice.  Those TV news magazines have proven it in their undercover investigations.

If that doesn’t make you feel like a sucker—nothing will.  :-[
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 02, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Not really.  As you can see there are guys here who have convinced themselves that premium is the only fuel they can put in their car and certainly nothing I say or post here is going to change their minds.  Still, on some level they have to know that one (or many) stations over the years have suckered them without them even knowing it by selling them premium fuel even though it was coming from the same tank of regular gas in the underground tank.  The more I think about this the more I think it is a widespread practice.  Those TV news magazines have proven it in their undercover investigations.

If that doesn’t make you feel like a sucker—nothing will.  :-[


I see there are many people in this thread still calling out the warning signs, it's like they are the oil company reps lol.  They really do believe the hype the car companies and gasoline companies put out about this.  If they did a blind gas test, I bet they couldn't tell the difference, most of it is in their heads. 

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 12:59:02 PM
I see there are many people in this thread still calling out the warning signs, it's like they are the oil company reps lol.  They really do believe the hype the car companies and gasoline companies put out about this.  If they did a blind gas test, I bet they couldn't tell the difference, most of it is in their heads.  

We so agree!  Marketing hype and denial is a powerful combination!

Still, the unscrupulous station owners are having the last laugh.  They are charging for premium and selling regular grade.  What would Homer Simpson say...?   :D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on March 02, 2012, 12:59:25 PM
 8)

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Butterbean on March 02, 2012, 02:21:57 PM
No
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 02, 2012, 02:48:57 PM
I see there are many people in this thread still calling out the warning signs, it's like they are the oil company reps lol.  They really do believe the hype the car companies and gasoline companies put out about this.  If they did a blind gas test, I bet they couldn't tell the difference, most of it is in their heads. 



You guys are serious tools and have no idea how fuel is used and how a high performance motor works and the effects of higher Octane.

I guess race car drivers are idiots and should use 87 in their cars instead of higher octane.  It's all in their heads when they are going 210 mph vs. 98 mph.

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 03:07:24 PM
You guys are serious tools and have no idea how fuel is used and how a high performance motor works and the effects of higher Octane.

I guess race car drivers are idiots and should use 87 in their cars instead of higher octane.  It's all in their heads when they are going 210 mph vs. 98 mph.


Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  More than once I have said that if one is a drag racer, a racecar driver, or in another situation where extracting the maximum performance from an engine is important then premium fuel is the way to go.  In the way that premium wheels and racing tires should be used when it is similarly necessary.

You are correct: I am not an automotive engineer.  My point is that the vast majority of drivers have no need to extract that kind of “maximum performance” from an engine since we are merely driving to work, the gym, the grocery store, etc. at modest speeds.  If you regularly find yourself driving 98mph or 210mph, more power to you.  Certainly you should fill up on premium.  I am never in situations where I have to go that fast, and I suspect the same is true for 99.9% of the population.  I fill up on regular.  I have never had a problem nor have I been dissatisfied with the performance of my cars.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Yev33 on March 02, 2012, 03:08:23 PM
You guys are serious tools and have no idea how fuel is used and how a high performance motor works and the effects of higher Octane.

I guess race car drivers are idiots and should use 87 in their cars instead of higher octane.  It's all in their heads when they are going 210 mph vs. 98 mph.



I think that Bay just wanted some input and opinions. Until he has a car that noticeably runs like shit on 87 he will keep using it, as he should.

Reppingfor20 is just talking out of his ass to try to get a rise out of people, don't feed the gimmick.


Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: tu_holmes on March 02, 2012, 03:10:30 PM

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  More than once I have said that if one is a drag racer, a racecar driver, or in another situation where extracting the maximum performance from an engine is important then premium fuel is the way to go.  In the way that premium wheels and racing tires should be used when it is similarly necessary.

You are correct: I am not an automotive engineer.  My point is that the vast majority of drivers have no need to extract that kind of “maximum performance” from an engine since we are merely driving to work, the gym, the grocery store, etc. at modest speeds.  If you regularly find yourself driving 98mph or 210mph, more power to you.  Certainly you should fill up on premium.  I am never in situations where I have to go that fast, and I suspect the same is true for 99.9% of the population.  I fill up on regular.  I have never had a problem nor have I been dissatisfied with the performance of my cars.


Have you never noticed a difference in gas mileage?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 03:25:05 PM
Have you never noticed a difference in gas mileage?


No.  Never more than a 1-2mpg difference and I attributed that to my driving habits over the course of a week or two—not to the grade of gasoline—because I still experience that kind of variation in my car today depending on how I drive it: aggressive vs. grandpa driving.  Obviously, some people here are more “serious” about cars than I am.  I read Car & Driver, attend car shows, and participate in car forums online, but I confess I am not a grease monkey; looking under the hood of my car is not how I want to spend my spare time.

In many ways this dialogue is moot because, as I noted previously, your local stations may be selling you regular gasoline at a premium price and you do not even know it.  I suspect that, at some point, this has happened to everyone who has ever bought premium gasoline.  It will continue to happen... and you will never even know it.  :-[
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: tu_holmes on March 02, 2012, 03:27:44 PM

No.  Never more than a 1-2mpg difference and I attributed that to my driving habits over the course of a week or two—not to the grade of gasoline—because I still experience that kind of variation in my car today depending on how I drive it: aggressive vs. grandpa driving.  Obviously, some people here are more “serious” about cars than I am.  I read Car & Driver, attend car shows, and participate in car forums online, but I confess I am not a grease monkey; looking under the hood of my car is not how I want to spend my spare time.

In many ways this dialogue is moot because, as I noted previously, your local stations may be selling you regular gasoline at a premium price and you do not even know it.  I suspect that, at some point, this has happened to everyone who has ever bought premium gasoline.  It will continue to happen... and you will never even know it.  :-[


Possibly, but again, stations get tested... I've seen the tests.

It's why I only go to corporate based filling stations as well... not the small mom and pop ones.

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 02, 2012, 03:37:17 PM
Possibly, but again, stations get tested... I've seen the tests.

It's why I only go to corporate based filling stations as well... not the small mom and pop ones.




I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: tu_holmes on March 02, 2012, 03:42:32 PM

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine

I do 6 and 5

Why are they "Myths"?

Because someone says so?

I have always done those 2 things and my cars typically run better and last longer than other people who I talk to.

Is 3000 mile oil changes excessive? Sure... but when you get a free oil change for life if you do it every 3000 miles, and that also warranties your engine for life, then I'll go ahead and get it done.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 02, 2012, 03:43:38 PM
One thing is for sure.  If your engine is designed for regular fuel, it is an absolute waste of money to use premium.

If your engine is designed to use premium fuel, especially an engine with very high compression, then you have a decision to make.  It will amount to a trade-off.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 02, 2012, 09:33:49 PM

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine


Let's take these one by one, shall we?

Change your oil every 3,000 miles: Depending on your driving habits and where you live, this might be a good idea, although 3,000 miles is a ridiculously conservative estimate. Is it necessary? Probably not.

Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive: Unless you're living in truly extreme cold (e.g. Northern Minnesota) then it really doesn't make sense. And even then it may not be advisable. ECUs these days adjust burn ratios and idle automatically to bring the engine up to the optimal operating temperature.

Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine: Fuel additives are, almost always, not worth it. There are certain specialized additives that, under some conditions, make sense. One example that comes to mind is additives to be used when storing your vehicle for a long time. But in general, they're worthless.

Get regular engine tuneups: I don't know what that even means. You should get your car serviced regularly, and take it in for service if the MIL indicates trouble or you notice something out of the ordinary. That should cover things.

Winterize Your Car: I'm not sure exactly what "winterize" means in this context. But there things one should do to prepare for winter when one lives in a place where -35° means an unusually warm day.

High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine: Gasoline with the octane rating recommended by the manufacturer is the best gasoline. Your car is designed to operate within certain specifications. Can it operate on lower gasoline? Yes, but you will probably sacrifice some efficiency (and some performance, as the ECU retards timing, which you personally, don't care about on an everyday basis, which is reasonable). Will it make your engine explode to run it with regular? No, not likely. But it might not be a good idea to run on gasoline with a lower octane rating than what the manufacturer recommends if your car has an unusually high compression ratio (e.g. a Celica GT-S which, if memory serves me right, has a compression ratio of 11.5:1) or it uses forced induction.


One thing is for sure.  If your engine is designed for regular fuel, it is an absolute waste of money to use premium.

If your engine is designed to use premium fuel, especially an engine with very high compression, then you have a decision to make.  It will amount to a trade-off.

Q.F.T.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: SamsonD on March 03, 2012, 10:50:32 AM
Some of you are missing the point.  It's not even just about getting maximum performance.  If you don't use the correct fuel you can damage your engine.  Fuck running rough, you put 87 octane piss water in turbo car and your fucking rods are going through the block.  NOT drag racing either.  Just driving to the store.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 04, 2012, 06:01:31 PM
Some of you are missing the point.  It's not even just about getting maximum performance.  If you don't use the correct fuel you can damage your engine.  Fuck running rough, you put 87 octane piss water in turbo car and your fucking rods are going through the block.  NOT drag racing either.  Just driving to the store.

Maybe.  But I have had as much as 235k miles of good driving with a trouble free engine that says otherwise.  8)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 04, 2012, 06:06:43 PM
Maybe.  But I have had as much as 235k miles of good driving with a trouble free engine that says otherwise.  8)

owned!
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 04, 2012, 06:21:13 PM
Maybe.  But I have had as much as 235k miles of good driving with a trouble free engine that says otherwise.  8)

Does your engine use forced induction? What is it's compression ratio? And what kind of fuel does the manufacturer recommend you use?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Roger Bacon on March 04, 2012, 07:34:30 PM

Question: How often do you need to run your motor at “full potential”?  

Answer: (almost) never.

In the United States most people who buy “performance” cars do so in order to impress themselves or their friends; they are certainly not buying them because they regularly go from 0-60 in five seconds.  A few miles from where I live there is something called the Infineon Raceway where normal people may take their cars and race them around a track a high velocities.  Sounds great if one is a car enthusiast, but the truth is relatively few people (even those who consider themselves car guys with performance vehicles) make use of this facility.  
http://www.infineonraceway.com/

If one is driving a vehicle from say the 1950s, 60s, or 70s  you can test the car with both types fuel and in some cases you will notice a real difference. If that is the case then premium fuel makes sense.  Similarly, if you are determined to extract the absolute best performance possible from your car then premium fuel is a good option.  It would also make sense to put premium race tires on your car as well, but how many people are going to do that?  As I said above, if one is racecar driver or you require the absolute best performance possible from a vehicle then premium fuel is the way to go; otherwise it is a waste of money.  A surprising number of cars today claim to “require” premium fuel including the Smart car ($13,590), the Cooper Mini, many SUVs.  If you are driving one of these vehicles is peak performance and speed really your priority? ::)


You're missing the point here George Takei...
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 05, 2012, 11:14:15 AM
Does your engine use forced induction? What is it's compression ratio? And what kind of fuel does the manufacturer recommend you use?


Does any of that matter?  You are not going to convince me that I “damaged the engine” of a car I had two cars ago when I drove it for more than 230k miles without a problem.  In fact, the only reason I got rid of that particular car was because it was “old” (1992) and I eventually wanted something newer.  

I didn’t keep my next car for as many miles simply because someone crashed into it, and by the time that happened I was also ready for something newer.  Still, I drove that vehicle for more than 120k miles without a problem—on regular fuel!  Aside from testing both cars with premium vs. regular fuel a couple times over the years (just to gauge the difference) I never put premium fuel in them.  Maybe I got lucky.  Maybe regular gasoline really will blow up the engine of other vehicles when they tell you that premium fuel is required.  Then again, maybe not.  We may never know, but I’ll bet you a nickel that those of you who insist on buying premium gasoline have been tricked into putting regular fuel into your car at a premium price by an unscrupulous station owner and you never knew it.  :-[
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 05, 2012, 11:38:55 AM

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine


Those 6 things were relevant maybe in the 70's and 80's before all cars started using fuel injection.

Oil filters these days are amazing compared to older days, oil is cleaner and processed better.  Most engines today are machined a thousand times better than 30 years ago so you have less debris in the oil.  If anything I think 3000 has been revised to about 5000-7500 in most cases.

Same holds true for #5.  The myth about warming your engine has nothing to do with warmth.  It was due to getting oil flowing so the pistons are lubed before driving.  Again not needed today.  

#4.  Additives were good with carbs, fuel injection engines today with cleaner gas technology is not needed.

#3.  Tune ups.  Do you know what a tune up is?  Changing spark plugs, adjusting the carburator, checking the timing.  Things that car technology made obsolete today.

#2.  Winterize is switching to a thinner oil that won't thicken as much, chaning the anti-freeze etc...  Again not needed.  

#1.  The key word is better.  It is NOT better just for the sakes of being better and can actual harm your engine.  For bigger motors with higher performance it is not a question of being better as actually being needed for maximum output.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 05, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
Does any of that matter?

Yes, it does. There's a big difference between an engine running 12.5:1 compression and one running 7.5:1. Similarly, there's a big difference between an engine using forced induction and one that doesn't.

Running the right fuel is important for cars with high compression ratios, forced induction or engines using stratified injection.

Your personal experience notwithstanding, the designer/manufacturer of the engine is more qualified than you to recommend the type of fuel to put in the engine. But it is a recommendation and they don't force you to follow it. If you don't care to then don't.

But don't extrapolate from your sample size of 1 and use your experience as "proof" that running the fuel  recommended by the designer and manufacturer isn't needed.

You are not going to convince me that I “damaged the engine” of a car

I don't care to convince you about anything.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 05, 2012, 12:43:38 PM
Yes, it does. There's a big difference between an engine running 12.5:1 compression and one running 7.5:1. Similarly, there's a big difference between an engine using forced induction and one that doesn't.

Running the right fuel is important for cars with high compression ratios, forced induction or engines using stratified injection.

Your personal experience notwithstanding, the designer/manufacturer of the engine is more qualified than you to recommend the type of fuel to put in the engine. But it is a recommendation and they don't force you to follow it. If you don't care to then don't.

But don't extrapolate from your sample size of 1 and use your experience as "proof" that running the fuel  recommended by the designer and manufacturer isn't needed.

I don't care to convince you about anything.

But Bay went to a car show so that made him an expert.  Plus he ignored the thousands of internet articles explaining the benefits of Octane in high performance motors and chose to stick to is one conpiract theory article.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 05, 2012, 12:48:16 PM
See you in the fast lane!  :-*
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 05, 2012, 12:54:42 PM
hahaha bay is so ignorant on this matter. He been owned a few times, and yet he is still trying to defend himself, like a kid that just found out there is no santa. :D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 05, 2012, 05:02:50 PM
lol bunch of people in this thread just hurting to give away their money to the gas stations for "premium" fuel :)

Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 05, 2012, 05:06:21 PM
hahaha bay is so ignorant on this matter. He been owned a few times, and yet he is still trying to defend himself, like a kid that just found out there is no santa. :D

Think about how I was "owned" in this thread the next time you are filling up on premium.  Perhaps that will bring a smile to your face.  I will be thinking of how I was "owned" the next time I fill up on regular; that will bring a smile to my face!  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 05, 2012, 05:07:02 PM
lol bunch of people in this thread just hurting to give away their money to the gas stations for "premium" fuel :)



Assuming it is premium!  ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: HTexan on March 05, 2012, 06:55:12 PM
Think about how I was "owned" in this thread the next time you are filling up on premium.  Perhaps that will bring a smile to your face.  I will be thinking of how I was "owned" the next time I fill up on regular; that will bring a smile to my face!  ;D
Does your car say it requires premium? If not regular is fine.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 05, 2012, 07:30:25 PM
Why are gasoline prices so high?
By Ronald D. White | 5:27 p.m.
Q&A: Retail gasoline prices have jumped so quickly that some experts are rethinking their predictions on how high they could go this year. Oil prices get only part of the blame.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gas-prices-questions-20120306,0,6487067.story
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Yev33 on March 05, 2012, 07:32:08 PM
Next time im at the dentist im going to tell him that I think brushing my teeth and flossing twice a day is a waste of money and is making the toothpaste companies way too rich.  I will go on to say that I havent noticed any noticeable difference between brushing twice a day and once a week so I must be right. When he calls me a dumbass I will tell him that he is just a  brainwashed pawn for the dental supply companies, and that I have had teeth all of my life which qualifies me to speak on the subject of dental maintenance.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Tony Doherty on March 05, 2012, 08:01:04 PM
I filled my X6 yesterday with 98 premium. It was the most expensive I have ever seen it AUST$1.69/litre
I think that is about $6.40/gallon

How much is premium in USA?

Bay or Parker??? my previous question please answer?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: avxo on March 05, 2012, 08:36:28 PM
#3.  Tune ups.  Do you know what a tune up is?  Changing spark plugs, adjusting the carburator, checking the timing.  Things that car technology made obsolete today.

Are you really suggesting that technology has made changing spark plugs and checking the timing (basic preventative maintenance done on all cars) unnecessary? It's true that the computer monitors a lot of parameters and will trip a MIL if necessary, but basic prevantative maintenance is never a bad thing.

#2.  Winterize is switching to a thinner oil that won't thicken as much, chaning the anti-freeze etc...  Again not needed.  

Not necessarily true, especially if living in extremely cold climates, such as Minnesota. Indeed, several manufacturers recommend switching to a different weight oil if the car will be operated in extremely cold climates.


The bottom line is, follow the recommendations of the manufacturer; not what a bunch of guys on a message board about shredded glutes say. Unless you're like Bay and think the manufacturer is in cahoots with oil companies and shady gas station attendants, and you can just run your car on home-made moonshine, like the kind your grandpappy made in his terlet.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: deadz on March 05, 2012, 09:03:08 PM
Premium $4.19 today. >:(
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on March 06, 2012, 08:30:33 AM
People  blamed Bush saying he was an oil monger president.  What do these prices say about Obama?
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: Parker on March 06, 2012, 08:34:08 AM
People  blamed Bush saying he was an oil monger president.  What do these prices say about Obama?
People have pointed to prices escalating due to the Iran situation.
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 06, 2012, 09:22:59 AM
People  blamed Bush saying he was an oil monger president.  What do these prices say about Obama?

Please take the political posturing to the Politics board.  ::)
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: dr.chimps on March 06, 2012, 09:52:27 AM
No. Unlike most Gebiggers, I don't put on a firesuit before I get in my car.   :-\
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: BayGBM on March 13, 2012, 06:56:58 AM
I filled up on regular gasoline yesterday.  Nya! Nya! ;D
Title: Re: Do you buy premium fuel?
Post by: reppingfor20 on March 13, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
No. Unlike most Gebiggers, I don't put on a firesuit before I get in my car.   :-\

haha good post  ;D  Have fun paying the extra money for the premium fuel guys!