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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 01:55:14 AM

Title: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 01:55:14 AM
1999 Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman would have beaten the recent 2019 Mr. Olympia winner Brandon Curry.

The second enterprise [I can't call bodybuilding a "sport" because it is not objectively judged] that relies on steroids the most is strongman [which I can call a sport].

To be clear, steroids are in basically all sports - if not all sports most people think of when thinking about sports.

But strongman is more dependent on training.  But, funnily enough, if you took 5x World's Strongest Man winner Mariusz Pudzianowski, I don't think he would place in the top six among the world's strongest men today.  I think he would be top ten...but even then that's hard to say.  It also depends if you think the World's Strongest Man contest is the best contest to determine the strongest strongman.  Personally, I consider the Arnold Pro Strongman to be THE strongest strongman contest in the world today - and it has been for some time.

WSM is a bit of a stamina/cardio contest.  It's hilarious to say that when you have men running with around 400-lb per hand on the Farmer's Walk event.  But yeah - these guys are basically speed-walking with 400-lb per hand, or at least 350-375.  And I do mean speed-walking.  Shoot, some of them are almost jogging.  It's crazy.

Anyway, I am intrigued that bodybuilding hit the wall 20 years ago, whereas strongman is stronger than ever.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: JuicedKangaroo on November 15, 2019, 02:53:53 AM
BBing became more about pinning slin and G4P. Physiques down the drain for the most part, athletes of today don't love the lifestyle like those did in the golden era.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 03:08:19 AM
BBing became more about pinning slin and G4P. Physiques down the drain for the most part, athletes of today don't love the lifestyle like those did in the golden era.

Great post.  Irongage Getbigger Woten stated that bodybuilding hit the wall and Dorian won his Sandows.  I'd say it peaked with Ronnie...although that could turn into a 400+ page thread/debate.  ;D

As you stated, it was a change from lifestyle to drug consumption.  I'm sure not for every single bodybuilder...but as a trend, yes.  Unfortunately.

Steve Kuclo said to Dennis Wolf that Dennis and Jay were "doing retirement right" [or something to that effect].

What does that mean?  That Wolf and Jay picked the right amount of juice to use, to get to a certain size, and stay there?

Imagine retiring from what you do, and looking like 70% of what you used to be?  I'm sure that most athletes fall off significantly [i.e., Mike Tyson today is probably only 70% of what he was in his prime], but with bodybuilders you see it on their physique, and everyone can tell they just aren't the men they used to be.  That must be hard to take for a lot of bodybuilders.  Some of whom stay 300-lb forever, and pass away because of it [Nasser El Sonbaty].
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 15, 2019, 03:38:50 AM
" it peaked with Ronnie " Yeah Buddy
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 15, 2019, 03:42:40 AM
The opinions about the best years or last great years of bodybuilding depend on when you came into liking bodybuilding as a fan.  I grew up in the 80's and like those physiques best.  I think Ronnie Coleman looked like shit.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: IroNat on November 15, 2019, 04:53:00 AM
Bodybuilding peaked with Arnold.

Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: oldtimer1 on November 15, 2019, 05:02:16 AM
Bodybuilding hit the wall when Dianabol was invented.  After this contest it was all over for real bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: rocket on November 15, 2019, 05:07:18 AM
There are good bodybuilders these days.

They just aren't the big fat heavyweights.

Quite a few guys in classic have great lines and excellent detail.  

The heavyweights have all wrecked their physiques getting too much, too fast.

If I were an up and coming bodybuilder, I wouldn't be using insulin, that's for sure.  
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: njflex on November 15, 2019, 05:12:09 AM
Bodybuilding peaked with Arnold.


TRUE ....but also arnold helped weider and weider used arnolds images for decades after to sell mag's /arnolds movie promotions ect....
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Tennisballz on November 15, 2019, 06:19:14 AM
Bodybuilding peaked with Arnold.


x2.  That was the pinnacle for sure.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Hypertrophy on November 15, 2019, 06:38:21 AM
Bodybuilding peaked with Arnold.



Yep, 100%
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Hypertrophy on November 15, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
Bodybuilding hit the wall when Dianabol was invented.  After this contest it was all over for real bodybuilding.

Probably - but the Dianabol fueled physiques looked somewhat "normal" - meaning the narrow waist and X-frame. Now they look like blocky, puffy, Michelin men. I assume it is because of GH and insulin, but that is just from what I have read.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Royalty on November 15, 2019, 07:05:48 AM
Bodybuilding peaked with Dennis Wolf at the 2012 Arnold Classic

Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: sculpture on November 15, 2019, 09:41:27 AM
Yep, 100%

How so?

The eighties Haney era improved on Arnold's era by pushing the conditioning, there were no leaps in size but certainly in condition.

The gh and slin era that started in Yates era pushed the size boundary but at the expense of other attributes such as balance and proportion. I think mass became overvalued. At least those guys still trained balls to walls however.

Nowadays it the worse of both worlds. Too much drugs and shitty training and you can see it on stage.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Hypertrophy on November 15, 2019, 09:56:10 AM
How so?

The eighties Haney era improved on Arnold's era by pushing the conditioning, there were no leaps in size but certainly in condition.

The gh and slin era that started in Yates era pushed the size boundary but at the expense of other attributes such as balance and proportion. I think mass became overvalued. At least those guys still trained balls to walls however.

Nowadays it the worse of both worlds. Too much drugs and shitty training and you can see it on stage.

Good question. The Haney era ushered in the beginning of the end, in my opinion. There is only so much muscle you can put on a frame before the aesthetic form is destroyed. As for conditioning - showing more veins really doesn't contribute to aesthetics. I concede this is all opinion but bring back guys like Roger Callard and Denny Gable and get rid of guys like Kai Greene....
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: joswift on November 15, 2019, 09:58:01 AM
a 1999 14th placed Jay Cutler would have beaten Brandon Curry...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/SvMoUNCrMjI/AAAAAAAABn0/YMPlSM1UjhQ/s400/1999-mr-olympia-ff.JPG)
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: sync pulse on November 15, 2019, 10:11:12 AM


It hit when they took away the medical supervision of stacks....
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Thespritz0 on November 15, 2019, 10:13:04 AM
a 1999 14th placed Jay Cutler would have beaten Brandon Curry...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/SvMoUNCrMjI/AAAAAAAABn0/YMPlSM1UjhQ/s400/1999-mr-olympia-ff.JPG)

^^
BOTH First appearances of Jay Cutler AND Ronnie Coleman would have DESTROYED Brandon Curry...
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Powerlift66 on November 15, 2019, 10:51:51 AM
I think it peaked w/ the GOAT (Haney) after that, things blew up (literally).
Dorian brought in a whole new look / protocol.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: IRON CROSS on November 15, 2019, 11:42:06 AM
^^
BOTH First appearances of Jay Cutler AND Ronnie Coleman would have DESTROYED Brandon Curry...

Who is Brandon Curry ........
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 02:45:37 PM
" it peaked with Ronnie " Yeah Buddy

Mr. Olympia guts peaked with Ronnie, yes.  ;D

Armless bodybuilding peaked with Dorian though.  8)
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 02:58:13 PM
Just to clarify what I meant:

1999 Ronnie beats 2019 Brandon Curry by 2019 standards.

Whether or not you prefer 1989 Lee Haney...I'm not certain that 1989 Lee Haney beats 2019 Brandon Curry by 2019 standards.  Or does he?  I would think 1989 Lee Haney would not be lean enough, but I'm not sure.

Sure...I prefer 1989 Lee Haney's look to 2019 Brandon Curry's look...but I'm merely saying something to the effect of "By 2019 judging standards, any Mr. Olympia winning from Dorian's first win in 1992 to Shawn Rhoden's win in 2018 beats Brandon Curry in 2019."

So we can go back a full 27 years, snatch Dorian off the 1992 Mr. Olympia stage, transport him to the 2019 Mr. Olympia stage via the Flux Capacitor, and 1992 Dorian beats 2019 Brandon Curry.

Where else does a 1992 top competitor beat a 2019 top competitor?

Gnome sayin'?

a 1999 14th placed Jay Cutler would have beaten Brandon Curry...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mC1TEdZ4gks/SvMoUNCrMjI/AAAAAAAABn0/YMPlSM1UjhQ/s400/1999-mr-olympia-ff.JPG)

That's crazy if true.  I'd have to review the footage, but it's not as if Jay in that picture is night and day from Brandon Curry.

^^
BOTH First appearances of Jay Cutler AND Ronnie Coleman would have DESTROYED Brandon Curry...

I think Ronnie's first appearance was in 1992...in 1996, Ronnie placed 6th, and that version of Ronnie could have probably beaten Brandon Curry.  No question, 1998 Ronnie could have beaten Brandon Curry.

Is the consensus that 1998 Ronnie beats any version of Phil?  Or...is the consensus that any version of Ronnie beats any version of Phil during their Mr. Olympia tenures?
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: joswift on November 15, 2019, 03:06:14 PM
Just to clarify what I meant:

1999 Ronnie beats 2019 Brandon Curry by 2019 standards.

Whether or not you prefer 1989 Lee Haney...I'm not certain that 1989 Lee Haney beats 2019 Brandon Curry by 2019 standards.  Or does he?  I would think 1989 Lee Haney would not be lean enough, but I'm not sure.

Sure...I prefer 1989 Lee Haney's look to 2019 Brandon Curry's look...but I'm merely saying something to the effect of "By 2019 judging standards, any Mr. Olympia winning from Dorian's first win in 1992 to Shawn Rhoden's win in 2018 beats Brandon Curry in 2019."

So we can go back a full 27 years, snatch Dorian off the 1992 Mr. Olympia stage, transport him to the 2019 Mr. Olympia stage via the Flux Capacitor, and 1992 Dorian beats 2019 Brandon Curry.

Where else does a 1992 top competitor beat a 2019 top competitor?

Gnome sayin'?

That's crazy if true.  I'd have to review the footage, but it's not as if Jay in that picture is night and day from Brandon Curry.

I think Ronnie's first appearance was in 1992...in 1996, Ronnie placed 6th, and that version of Ronnie could have probably beaten Brandon Curry.  No question, 1998 Ronnie could have beaten Brandon Curry.

Is the consensus that 1998 Ronnie beats any version of Phil?  Or...is the consensus that any version of Ronnie beats any version of Phil during their Mr. Olympia tenures?

not sure, but I bet the old version of Ronnie beats the new version of Yates and the old version of Yates beats the new version of Rhul, as opposed to the slightly older version of Platz juxtapositioned alongside the post op version of Fux in tandem with the syncopatic intertwining of Padilla and Franco.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 03:09:13 PM
not sure, but I bet the old version of Ronnie beats the new version of Yates and the old version of Yates beats the new version of Rhul, as opposed to the slightly older version of Platz juxtapositioned alongside the post op version of Fux in tandem with the syncopatic intertwining of Padilla and Franco.

Everything you posted there is actually correct, as far as I can tell.  ;D
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: joswift on November 15, 2019, 03:10:25 PM
Everything you posted there is actually correct, as far as I can tell.  ;D

amazing... ;D
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: m8 on November 15, 2019, 06:43:26 PM
(https://www.ironcompany.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/BML21hxCcAAkNWB.jpg)
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Matt on November 15, 2019, 09:26:57 PM
amazing... ;D

Breaking your post down:

[1] The old version of Ronnie beats the new version of Yates [correct].

[2] The old version of Yates beats the new version of Ruhl [correct].

[3] The slightly older version of Platz juxtapositioned alongside the post op version of Fux in tandem with the syncopatic intertwining of Padilla and Franco [correct].

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: pellius on November 15, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
The opinions about the best years or last great years of bodybuilding depend on when you came into liking bodybuilding as a fan.  I grew up in the 80's and like those physiques best.  I think Ronnie Coleman looked like shit.

I think it ended with Haney maybe going into early Dorian who ushered in the age of the "mass monsters".
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: DooM_ on November 16, 2019, 12:54:58 AM
early 90's was the beginning of the end ,  insulin, hgh and synthol ruined it . . .
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: pellius on November 16, 2019, 01:09:37 AM
early 90's was the beginning of the end ,  insulin, hgh and synthol ruined it . . .

Agreed. I wonder with something like bbing, having big muscles, how far can you go?
If the sport has to advance, since there's not much you can do regarding structure and muscle shape, the only thing left is getting bigger. Unless the standards change where else can they go? If they just decide on pure aesthetics then it becomes a much more elite endeavor relying even more on genetics. In other words, it's like you're either born handsome or you're not. You have a Bob Paris/Berry DeMay physique or a Branch Warren/Paco structure. Right now packing on a ton of muscle can make up for lack of beauty but the human body is being distorted to a point where it's killing them.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Da Freak on November 16, 2019, 01:18:29 AM
Bodybuilding peaked with Arnold.



most over rated bodybuilder in history.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: AbrahamG on November 16, 2019, 01:18:48 AM
I don't think 93 Dorian has been surpassed, nor will it ever.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: pellius on November 16, 2019, 01:26:29 AM
most over rated bodybuilder in history.

Who do you think was better during the 70-75 era?
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: pellius on November 16, 2019, 01:28:06 AM
I don't think 93 Dorian has been surpasses, nor will it ever.

Yes, that was probably the peak of size, proportion, and conditioning that a human can attain without that distorted look they have today.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 16, 2019, 01:54:57 AM
most over rated bodybuilder in history.


Arnold Overated Really

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

And how you figure that then.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 16, 2019, 01:59:49 AM
(https://www.ironcompany.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/BML21hxCcAAkNWB.jpg)

Pretty much all down hill from there.
With A Few exceptions Peak
Kevin
Flex
Ronnie
09 Cutler
Even Phildo
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Natural_O on November 16, 2019, 03:24:50 AM
How so?

The eighties Haney era improved on Arnold's era by pushing the conditioning, there were no leaps in size but certainly in condition.

The gh and slin era that started in Yates era pushed the size boundary but at the expense of other attributes such as balance and proportion. I think mass became overvalued. At least those guys still trained balls to walls however.

Nowadays it the worse of both worlds. Too much drugs and shitty training and you can see it on stage.

Right on, 100%!
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: AbrahamG on November 16, 2019, 04:07:22 PM
Yes, that was probably the peak of size, proportion, and conditioning that a human can attain without that distorted look they have today.

His presentation and execution of the mandatories and even his quarterly turns were bang on.  No weak points either in 93.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Taffin on November 16, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
early 90's was the beginning of the end ,  insulin, hgh and synthol ruined it . . .

It makes you wonder why someone doesn't try an old-school approach, just for once.  If it's insulin that is really causing the glazed doughnut look why isn't someone brave enough to drop it and come in shredded I wonder..?  I mean, I doubt Shawn Ray ever messed with his pancreas to get into this condition and he holds his own against Dorian here (IMHO)

Both sides of pose


Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: a_pupil on November 16, 2019, 04:40:30 PM
It makes you wonder why someone doesn't try an old-school approach, just for once.  If it's insulin that is really causing the glazed doughnut look why isn't someone brave enough to drop it and come in shredded I wonder..?  I mean, I doubt Shawn Ray ever messed with his pancreas to get into this condition and he holds his own against Dorian here (IMHO)

Both sides of pose




 ;D @ the difference in guts
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: tres_taco_combo on November 16, 2019, 05:03:22 PM
mens classic is solid and womens bikini and figure are also amazing classes

men's open sucks for the following reasons
1. chasing the size game creates terrible bodies most of the time (all the excess GH/slin and carbs) gives a softer look.

2. back in the day, there was not much out there except men's open bbing so all lifters went the bb route, now guys go men's classic, men's physique, do cross fit, some just do social media and do not compete at all so what could be top men's open bbers in terms of genetics dont even dip their toe in the water of this class

Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 18, 2019, 03:05:20 PM


Is the consensus that 1998 Ronnie beats any version of Phil?  Or...is the consensus that any version of Ronnie beats any version of Phil during their Mr. Olympia tenures?

98, 99, 2003 ronnie are unbeatable in a contest, it's not a legit debate outside of fanboyism and bias

i'm not sure his other versions are beatable either, outside of 2002

phil from 2011 -2014 would definitely beat ronnie in 2002, possibly 2001

E
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Schmoff on November 18, 2019, 03:55:49 PM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=658475.0;attach=781019;image)

look at dorian's face, thats the meaning of condition and dryness
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 18, 2019, 04:28:59 PM
98, 99, 2003 ronnie are unbeatable in a contest, it's not a legit debate outside of fanboyism and bias

i'm not sure his other versions are beatable either, outside of 2002

phil from 2011 -2014 would definitely beat ronnie in 2002, possibly 2001

E

Irony alert.

Ronnie 1998 only beat Flex by 3 points a close contest. Flex peaked for the 1998 ASC that year and if he showed up in that shape would have most likely beaten Ronnie. Phil would have NEVER beat Ronnie,EVER. You would have to know how contests are judged in order to draw a conclusion if Phil could and years of correcting your ignorance on the subject leads us back to your bias and ignorance.

Phil greatest of his generation and against his contemporaries but he would NOT touch Ronnie  


Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: IronMagazine.com on November 18, 2019, 05:10:15 PM
As they continue to create more and more divisions (to make more $) bodybuilding continues to go down the tubes and nobody cares anymore.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 18, 2019, 08:14:39 PM
Irony alert.

Ronnie 1998 only beat Flex by 3 points a close contest. Flex peaked for the 1998 ASC that year and if he showed up in that shape would have most likely beaten Ronnie. Phil would have NEVER beat Ronnie,EVER. You would have to know how contests are judged in order to draw a conclusion if Phil could and years of correcting your ignorance on the subject leads us back to your bias and ignorance.

Phil greatest of his generation and against his contemporaries but he would NOT touch Ronnie  




what irony?  you know who i'm a fanboy of and it isn't ronnie

don't care about the points, flex was the favorite to win going into the contest and the judges have a major tendency to judge guys based on what they looked like previously

show me the 98 asc pics where flex has large striated glues and hamstrings like ronnie at the olympia or a back that is even slightly comparable, or heck any body part that is comparable

no version of flex beats ronnie in 98 and neither does anybody else, amazing how after all these years you still haven't invested in glasses, lose the bias already

E
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 18, 2019, 08:18:52 PM
people thought gunther beat ronnie in 2002, but no version of phil heath beats him in 2002 ::)


E
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 18, 2019, 08:21:51 PM
everybody likes flex 93 right?   it's his supposed best, or at least his most popular look

well check out this comparison ;D

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ar_bxnHS-eg/hqdefault.jpg)

E
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 19, 2019, 03:01:18 AM
everybody likes flex 93 right?   it's his supposed best, or at least his most popular look

well check out this comparison ;D

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ar_bxnHS-eg/hqdefault.jpg)

E
How about the gut when standing relaxed?
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 19, 2019, 03:15:04 AM
what irony?  you know who i'm a fanboy of and it isn't ronnie

don't care about the points, flex was the favorite to win going into the contest and the judges have a major tendency to judge guys based on what they looked like previously

show me the 98 asc pics where flex has large striated glues and hamstrings like ronnie at the olympia or a back that is even slightly comparable, or heck any body part that is comparable

no version of flex beats ronnie in 98 and neither does anybody else, amazing how after all these years you still haven't invested in glasses, lose the bias already

E

Quote
what irony?  you know who i'm a fanboy of and it isn't ronnie

Bias

Quote
don't care about the points, flex was the favorite to win going into the contest and the judges have a major tendency to judge guys based on what they looked like previously

Obviously but facts are still facts regardless if you don't care about them. just 3 points separated the two. And Flex was the heir apparent , if anything Nasser was the front runner for placing second the precious year, The judges made the right call, although Ronnie should have not won with bitch-tits  :-X

Quote
show me the 98 asc pics where flex has large striated glues and hamstrings like ronnie at the olympia or a back that is even slightly comparable, or heck any body part that is comparable

Show me 98 pictures of Ronnie without female breasts. Still don't get how contests are judged after all these years. Poses win contests NOT parts.


Quote
no version of flex beats ronnie in 98 and neither does anybody else, amazing how after all these years you still haven't invested in glasses, lose the bias already

1993/1998 Flex ASC in my opinion would beat Ronnie 1998. Dorian Yates 1993/1995 would DEMOLISH Ronnie 1998. And stop projecting your ignorance on others. And Phil doesn't come close to Flex , Ronnie or Dorian. Best of his era but his era sucks.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: IroNat on November 19, 2019, 03:15:28 AM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=658475.0;attach=781019;image)

look at dorian's face, thats the meaning of condition and dryness

Look at the gut on Yates.

Ray has no gut.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 19, 2019, 03:24:29 AM
everybody likes flex 93 right?   it's his supposed best, or at least his most popular look

well check out this comparison ;D

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ar_bxnHS-eg/hqdefault.jpg)

E

An obvious biased comparison. Not an issue because... Flex beat plenty of bigger softer guys and there are 7 other mandatory poses ( not parts ) see how that works. Now factor in the rest of the criteria and I don't see Phil beating Flex.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 19, 2019, 03:28:21 AM
people thought gunther beat ronnie in 2002, but no version of phil heath beats him in 2002 ::)


E

He did beat Ronnie in 2002  ;D
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 19, 2019, 03:40:29 AM
 ;D  :o
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Tha Grim Lifter on November 19, 2019, 04:33:32 AM
Irony alert.

Ronnie 1998 only beat Flex by 3 points a close contest. Flex peaked for the 1998 ASC that year and if he showed up in that shape would have most likely beaten Ronnie. Phil would have NEVER beat Ronnie,EVER. You would have to know how contests are judged in order to draw a conclusion if Phil could and years of correcting your ignorance on the subject leads us back to your bias and ignorance.

Phil greatest of his generation and against his contemporaries but he would NOT touch Ronnie  




Close contest? Ronnie was overlooked in the first round and had 17 points to Flex's 5. He won the next three rounds with straight 5's to Flex's 10. That's the only reason you can say it looked close. Ronnie was maybe 5th best to win it if that, no-one seriously considered him.

Flex in his best condition isn't better than Ronnie 1998 or 1999 onwards. He probably would have won in 1998 if he'd showed up in top shape but he wouldn't have deserved it, he would have won on name.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 19, 2019, 01:06:57 PM
Close contest? Ronnie was overlooked in the first round and had 17 points to Flex's 5. He won the next three rounds with straight 5's to Flex's 10. That's the only reason you can say it looked close. Ronnie was maybe 5th best to win it if that, no-one seriously considered him.

Flex in his best condition isn't better than Ronnie 1998 or 1999 onwards. He probably would have won in 1998 if he'd showed up in top shape but he wouldn't have deserved it, he would have won on name.


Quote
Close contest? Ronnie was overlooked in the first round and had 17 points to Flex's 5. He won the next three rounds with straight 5's to Flex's 10. That's the only reason you can say it looked close. Ronnie was maybe 5th best to win it if that, no-one seriously considered him.

Stop repeating this lie. He was NOT ' overlooked ' in the first round. In fact he was in the second callout and 8 more after that.  ::) close contest 32-35 points just 3 points separated the 2.


Quote
Flex in his best condition isn't better than Ronnie 1998 or 1999 onwards. He probably would have won in 1998 if he'd showed up in top shape but he wouldn't have deserved it, he would have won on name.

According to you. I beg to differ. I think Flex 1993 ASC smoked Ronnie 1998 and his bitch tits & gut
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Schmoff on November 19, 2019, 01:25:39 PM
Look at the gut on Yates.

Ray has no gut.

well still smaller than most pros of today
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: honest on November 19, 2019, 02:22:50 PM
I don't think 93 Dorian has been surpassed, nor will it ever.

Totally agree he never looked that good again either, but thats the best ever, Ronnie took it to the next level size wise, but not as a sport.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: honest on November 19, 2019, 02:25:49 PM
everybody likes flex 93 right?   it's his supposed best, or at least his most popular look

well check out this comparison ;D

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ar_bxnHS-eg/hqdefault.jpg)

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Flex 93 cannot be compared to Heath, Phil was good for his day, but he wouldn't have beaten Ronnie, Flex or even Kevin 92 and prior to his pec tear, he just doesn't have the structure.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: AbrahamG on November 19, 2019, 04:54:53 PM
;D  :o

What a cun't Kevin Levrone was/is.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 19, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
How about the gut when standing relaxed?

that pic is 2011, the gut didn't become a big problem until 2017

and since when are shows judged by what they look like standing relaxed?  if standing relaxed was so important paul dillet would've won the olympia in 93


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Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 19, 2019, 06:45:06 PM
Bias

Obviously but facts are still facts regardless if you don't care about them. just 3 points separated the two. And Flex was the heir apparent , if anything Nasser was the front runner for placing second the precious year, The judges made the right call, although Ronnie should have not won with bitch-tits  :-X

Show me 98 pictures of Ronnie without female breasts. Still don't get how contests are judged after all these years. Poses win contests NOT parts.


1993/1998 Flex ASC in my opinion would beat Ronnie 1998. Dorian Yates 1993/1995 would DEMOLISH Ronnie 1998. And stop projecting your ignorance on others. And Phil doesn't come close to Flex , Ronnie or Dorian. Best of his era but his era sucks.

nasser was a contender, flex was the favorite while ronnie was the guy that never placed top 6 hence him not being judged fairly

you criticize ronnie's tits, yet ignore dorian's torn arm, show me the mandatory wear his tits are a major detriment the way dorian's arms were in each front pose

if poses win like you say, why are you saying his tits hurt his poses when that is one body part,i didn't know nipple quality was judged

show me the poses flex beat him, wear are the pics?

93 flex vs 98 ronnie, invest in glasses if you don't see a clear winner ;D ;D

(https://musclemecca.com/imported-images/2013/01/FR4JPG-1.jpg)

(https://musclemecca.com/imported-images/2013/01/FR5cJPG-1.jpg)


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Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 19, 2019, 06:46:07 PM
He did beat Ronnie in 2002  ;D

that's my point, it's just more proof phil woud've beat him in 2002 as i said

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Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 19, 2019, 06:57:09 PM
An obvious biased comparison. Not an issue because... Flex beat plenty of bigger softer guys and there are 7 other mandatory poses ( not parts ) see how that works. Now factor in the rest of the criteria and I don't see Phil beating Flex.

so what is stopping you from showing me all the poses flex wins?

phil is bigger, harder, and more complete what argument is there for flex over phil other than he is prettier?



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Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 20, 2019, 03:21:36 AM
nasser was a contender, flex was the favorite while ronnie was the guy that never placed top 6 hence him not being judged fairly

you criticize ronnie's tits, yet ignore dorian's torn arm, show me the mandatory wear his tits are a major detriment the way dorian's arms were in each front pose

if poses win like you say, why are you saying his tits hurt his poses when that is one body part,i didn't know nipple quality was judged

show me the poses flex beat him, wear are the pics?

93 flex vs 98 ronnie, invest in glasses if you don't see a clear winner ;D ;D




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Quote
nasser was a contender, flex was the favorite while ronnie was the guy that never placed top 6 hence him not being judged fairly

Wrong again. Ronnie placed top 6 in 1996 and he was judged fairly he won the contest and he was called out 9 times in the first round

Quote
you criticize ronnie's tits, yet ignore dorian's torn arm, show me the mandatory wear his tits are a major detriment the way dorian's arms were in each front pose

False equivalence. The only pose that hurts Dorian's torn biceps is the front double biceps. He could easily lose this pose ( and probably did ) and a couple of other and still win the contest ( which he did ) you'd know this if you knew how contests are judged. And we're talking about female breasts on the greatest male bodybuilder on the planet  ::)

Quote
if poses win like you say, why are you saying his tits hurt his poses when that is one body part,i didn't know nipple quality was judged

See above.

Quote
show me the poses flex beat him, wear are the pics?

I could post pictures but you would still come to your same ignorant biased conclusion. But you get the point , wait no you don't lol


Quote
93 flex vs 98 ronnie, invest in glasses if you don't see a clear winner ;D ;D

Oh I do see a clear winner and it isn't pregnant bitch-tits
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 20, 2019, 03:33:34 AM
so what is stopping you from showing me all the poses flex wins?

phil is bigger, harder, and more complete what argument is there for flex over phil other than he is prettier?



E



Same shit you see what you want. Phil best of his generation but his generation is ho-hum.


Quote
phil is bigger, harder, and more complete what argument is there for flex over phil other than he is prettier?

Phil is heavier , Flex had no problem beating heavier guys. harder?  ::) no he's not. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. And more complete? elaborate? what muscles does Phil have that Flex doesn't?

Neither have the best structure, Phil looks like 6 pounds of sugar stuffed in a 5 pound bag. Flex is better proportioned in my opinion. Flex would simply collect more poses and speaking of that , Flex knows how to pose and present his physique. Phil throws up shots and makes stupid faces  ::)
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 20, 2019, 03:36:18 AM
that's my point, it's just more proof phil woud've beat him in 2002 as i said

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Kevin beat him in 2002 although they gave the contest to Ronnie. Kevin won the entire prejudging and that was the meat & potatoes of the contest and the nightshow was for the fans. Maybe Phil would beat Ronnie 2002 , Ronnie was that bad. but Kevin wasn't that spectacular either. but a prime Ronnie, Phil isn't touching him , no way , no how.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 20, 2019, 08:55:08 AM
Kevin beat him in 2002 although they gave the contest to Ronnie. Kevin won the entire prejudging and that was the meat & potatoes of the contest and the nightshow was for the fans. Maybe Phil would beat Ronnie 2002 , Ronnie was that bad. but Kevin wasn't that spectacular either. but a prime Ronnie, Phil isn't touching him , no way , no how.

That's a real tough blow for Kevin - I had him in 1st in that show.
Phil at his Best in the 1st 3 Olympia's looked great - As for Him
Beating Ronnie at his Best That I Doubt & Certainly Not Beating
Dorian at His Best or an 09 Jay. 
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Sharma on November 21, 2019, 11:20:44 AM
Disgusting Dorian ruined the sport. He was the GH and insulin monster who made the giant gut acceptable and could win Olympia’s with no arms at all.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 21, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
Disgusting Dorian ruined the sport. He was the GH and insulin monster who made the giant gut acceptable and could win Olympia’s with no arms at all.
I would expect that opinion from someone with your avatar.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 21, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
Disgusting Dorian ruined the sport. He was the GH and insulin monster who made the giant gut acceptable and could win Olympia’s with no arms at all.

Completely Wrong - Dorian Was a Competitor & The Judges Placed Him 1st
So No it wasn’t Dorian’s Doing - If You’re Looking to Blame anyone Blame the Judges.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Sharma on November 21, 2019, 11:44:30 AM
Completely Wrong - Dorian Was a Competitor & The Judges Placed Him 1st
So No it wasn’t Dorian’s Doing - If You’re Looking to Blame anyone Blame the Judges.

Yates and the judges colluded many times. Yates only actually win 3 Sandows fairly.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Humble Narcissist on November 21, 2019, 11:47:17 AM
Yates and the judges colluded many times. Yates only actually win 3 Sandows fairly.
And yet he has so much more than 3.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 21, 2019, 12:01:08 PM
Yates and the judges colluded many times. Yates only actually win 3 Sandows fairly.


Please - Have some Brains  ::)
So Did Arnold / Haney /Ronnie/ Jay / Phil also Collude with their respective judging panels
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: B R on November 21, 2019, 12:07:53 PM

Please - Have some Brains  ::)
So Did Arnold / Haney /Ronnie/ Jay / Phil also Collude with their respective judging panels

Colluded = Schmoe sessions  ???
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: sculpture on November 21, 2019, 12:50:26 PM
Yates and the judges colluded many times. Yates only actually win 3 Sandows fairly.

He won all fairly. Did he cheat?

a few of his victories were debatable. 94 and 97 could have easily gone against him
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 21, 2019, 02:52:35 PM
Yates and the judges colluded many times. Yates only actually win 3 Sandows fairly.

Holy shit someone cracked out the Sharma gimmick , last posts before today , 2011  :o Who is it? SF1900
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 21, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
Holy shit someone cracked out the Sharma gimmick , last posts before today , 2011  :o Who is it? SF1900

Shizzo Joe I like the Vaselino
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: honest on November 21, 2019, 03:03:39 PM
Absolute crap, the sport peaked in 93 with Yates every winner prior and after has been below this standard, it isn't my perfect mix for bodybuilding either, I prefer the older more classic look. But Yates on this day was unbeatable he had mass condition and symmetry. I have seen them all win live, Coleman, Cutler, Heath, none of them come near to yates 93, Ronnie for pure size, but never condition at that level, it had to be seen to be believed and he never looked that good again, good enough to beat everyone else, but never his 93 shape.

Nasser looked like he was in the NPC los angeles novice from the rear, side and front right up there if you ignored the obvious site stuff in his delts arms and calves but he never bothered anyone overall, sim,liar to Strydom could have been anything till he turned around.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 21, 2019, 03:19:00 PM
Absolute crap, the sport peaked in 93 with Yates every winner prior and after has been below this standard, it isn't my perfect mix for bodybuilding either, I prefer the older more classic look. But Yates on this day was unbeatable he had mass condition and symmetry. I have seen them all win live, Coleman, Cutler, Heath, none of them come near to yates 93, Ronnie for pure size, but never condition at that level, it had to be seen to be believed and he never looked that good again, good enough to beat everyone else, but never his 93 shape.

Nasser looked like he was in the NPC los angeles novice from the rear, side and front right up there if you ignored the obvious site stuff in his delts arms and calves but he never bothered anyone overall, sim,liar to Strydom could have been anything till he turned around.


This x2
Well said.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 21, 2019, 04:14:06 PM
Absolute crap, the sport peaked in 93 with Yates every winner prior and after has been below this standard, it isn't my perfect mix for bodybuilding either, I prefer the older more classic look. But Yates on this day was unbeatable he had mass condition and symmetry. I have seen them all win live, Coleman, Cutler, Heath, none of them come near to yates 93, Ronnie for pure size, but never condition at that level, it had to be seen to be believed and he never looked that good again, good enough to beat everyone else, but never his 93 shape.

Nasser looked like he was in the NPC los angeles novice from the rear, side and front right up there if you ignored the obvious site stuff in his delts arms and calves but he never bothered anyone overall, sim,liar to Strydom could have been anything till he turned around.

Yates in person was hard to explain to people.  Saw him guest pose at a show once.  Holy F.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: tres_taco_combo on November 21, 2019, 04:15:03 PM
Absolute crap, the sport peaked in 93 with Yates every winner prior and after has been below this standard, it isn't my perfect mix for bodybuilding either, I prefer the older more classic look. But Yates on this day was unbeatable he had mass condition and symmetry. I have seen them all win live, Coleman, Cutler, Heath, none of them come near to yates 93, Ronnie for pure size, but never condition at that level, it had to be seen to be believed and he never looked that good again, good enough to beat everyone else, but never his 93 shape.

Nasser looked like he was in the NPC los angeles novice from the rear, side and front right up there if you ignored the obvious site stuff in his delts arms and calves but he never bothered anyone overall, sim,liar to Strydom could have been anything till he turned around.

everyone says Dorian's conditioning was out of this world
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: illuminati on November 21, 2019, 11:32:56 PM
Yates in person was hard to explain to people.  Saw him guest pose at a show once.  Holy F.

Yes - Correct
Dorian really did have to be seen to be believed
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: johnny1 on November 21, 2019, 11:44:40 PM
Absolute crap, the sport peaked in 93 with Yates every winner prior and after has been below this standard, it isn't my perfect mix for bodybuilding either, I prefer the older more classic look. But Yates on this day was unbeatable he had mass condition and symmetry. I have seen them all win live, Coleman, Cutler, Heath, none of them come near to yates 93, Ronnie for pure size, but never condition at that level, it had to be seen to be believed and he never looked that good again, good enough to beat everyone else, but never his 93 shape.

Nasser looked like he was in the NPC los angeles novice from the rear, side and front right up there if you ignored the obvious site stuff in his delts arms and calves but he never bothered anyone overall, sim,liar to Strydom could have been anything till he turned around.
X 3 good post.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: NI_Muscle on November 22, 2019, 12:04:20 AM
I saw Yates guest pose in Belfast in April of 93.  He was in off-season condition and absolutely colossal.

What stood out for me was the size of his forearms whilst sitting signing pictures I'm the lobby.  The muscle hanging from them was ridiculous.  Like thighs.
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Taffin on November 23, 2019, 11:19:41 AM
I saw Yates guest pose in Belfast in April of 93.  He was in off-season condition and absolutely colossal.

What stood out for me was the size of his forearms whilst sitting signing pictures I'm the lobby.  The muscle hanging from them was ridiculous.  Like thighs.


I remember shaking his hand one time and being amazed at the amount of muscle you could feel in his palm.  He didn't try to 'power-squueze' or anything like that, just a normal grip - but the pad of muscle was very noticeable... Maybe this is a normal thing for top Pro's/people who pull big numbers..?


everyone says Dorian's conditioning was out of this world

He certainly seemed to have thin skin from the stalls of the British Grand Prix!


Interdasting bit of cross-thread-pollination from the Titus thread may be relevant here.  Taken from one of the articles Titus wrote for IronMag (a GetBigger who very kindly posted links to the archive)

"I have had discussions about AAS use with them and I have even worked with Dorian Yates preparing for the 2001 Mr. Olympia. Incidentally Dorian’s PED regimen almost killed me after following his instructions to use extreme dosages of the diuretic Demandex… putting me in the hospital shortly after the competition."

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2015/titus-talks-55/
 (http://www.ironmagazine.com/2015/titus-talks-55/)


He is of course referring to Demadex (Torsemide)  Wonder what qualified as 'extreme dosages'..?
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 25, 2019, 08:01:29 PM

Wrong again. Ronnie placed top 6 in 1996 and he was judged fairly he won the contest and he was called out 9 times in the first round

False equivalence. The only pose that hurts Dorian's torn biceps is the front double biceps. He could easily lose this pose ( and probably did ) and a couple of other and still win the contest ( which he did ) you'd know this if you knew how contests are judged. And we're talking about female breasts on the greatest male bodybuilder on the planet  ::)

See above.

I could post pictures but you would still come to your same ignorant biased conclusion. But you get the point , wait no you don't lol


Oh I do see a clear winner and it isn't pregnant bitch-tits

ronnie "placed top 6" only after nasser was disqualified in 96

so you can't find pics of 93 flex looking better than 98 ronnie, just as i thought

ronnie's puffy nipples destroy any version of flex especially the tiny overrated 93 version, it is not a debate to anybody other than fanboys like yourself, in fact 93 flex wouldn't even be top 6 at 98 olympia

E
Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 25, 2019, 08:03:35 PM
Same shit you see what you want. Phil best of his generation but his generation is ho-hum.


Phil is heavier , Flex had no problem beating heavier guys. harder?  ::) no he's not. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. And more complete? elaborate? what muscles does Phil have that Flex doesn't?

Neither have the best structure, Phil looks like 6 pounds of sugar stuffed in a 5 pound bag. Flex is better proportioned in my opinion. Flex would simply collect more poses and speaking of that , Flex knows how to pose and present his physique. Phil throws up shots and makes stupid faces  ::)

post the pics of 93 flex looking better than phil during his prime years, i'm waiting...

what does phil have that flex didn't?  EVERYTHING

better arms, quads, chest, calves, forerms and WAY BETTER back, hams and glutes

i posted pics, where are yours????

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Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 25, 2019, 08:07:14 PM
Kevin beat him in 2002 although they gave the contest to Ronnie. Kevin won the entire prejudging and that was the meat & potatoes of the contest and the nightshow was for the fans. Maybe Phil would beat Ronnie 2002 , Ronnie was that bad. but Kevin wasn't that spectacular either. but a prime Ronnie, Phil isn't touching him , no way , no how.

no Mr. Levrone did not win, and you know that breaks my heart  ;D

he won the night show, not the prejudging

yes phil would beat 2002 ronnie

only prime ronnie would beat phil, that's it that's the list

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Title: Re: Bodybuilding Hit the Wall 20 Years Ago.
Post by: Earl1972 on November 25, 2019, 08:08:12 PM
Yates and the judges colluded many times. Yates only actually win 3 Sandows fairly.

sharma?  it's 2007 all over again haha ;D

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