Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on August 14, 2006, 03:23:05 PM
-
Would you guys like to have a learning thread on Islam now in addition to the Judaism thread?
If not, we can always do it later.
-
good idea...haider??
PS stella i PMed ya the funny eddie izzard standup...
-
Nope.
-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2365081171838960665&q=islam
i'm posting thie without having watched it first..so as to remove personal bias...
-
errr..right now in im georgia visting my bro's graduation who's in the Army, so I wont really have the time for the next week or so, and then I gota move back in the dorms and what not. And lets not forget I'm really not that knowledgeable and dont really have the patience to put up with some of these dudes (manni, rapture, royalty, etc. who have zero knowledge on the subject but 100% hatred against muslims). If its simple matters, simple questions, and NOT copy pastes from anti-islamic websties then I may be able to answer to the best of my abilities.
-
If its simple matters, simple questions, and NOT copy pastes from anti-islamic websties then I may be able to answer to the best of my abilities.
Translation:
"Yes I know and accept Islam is NOT a religion of peace, but I cannot advertise this fact because it is every muslims duty to convert and to not reveal the truth until conversion is complete. The arguements from anti-islamic are too strong (because they are factual) and I can not combat them because they reveal the truth about Islam and I would only be lying..."
-
I don't understand why some of you people want to hold haider more accountable for Islam than you are holding every other church going Christian accountable for Christianity.
Why would haider know a whole lot on Islam?
You honestly think that the average Christian is scholared on Christianity?
No offence haider, but you seem like your average bloke when it comes to religion.
YIP
Zack
-
I don't understand why some of you people want to hold haider more accountable for Islam than you are holding every other church going Christian accountable for Christianity.
Why would haider know a whole lot on Islam?
You honestly think that the average Christian is scholared on Christianity?
No offence haider, but you seem like your average bloke when it comes to religion.
YIP
Zack
If u go back and read my post, u will find my view on this is similar. Being one of the *very* few muslims here, and being more outspoken abt my faith than the other(CJ doesnt like Islam, toxy is atheist, and Ironneck loves teh swine), I can understand why they would call on me to answer questions.
There was a time though when I was heavily invovled in Islamic discussion and spent much of my time reading Islamic literature, but the problem is.....that was some time ago... I'm not a good muslim :'(
-
Translation:
"Yes I know and accept Islam is NOT a religion of peace, but I cannot advertise this fact because it is every muslims duty to convert and to not reveal the truth until conversion is complete. The arguements from anti-islamic are too strong (because they are factual) and I can not combat them because they reveal the truth about Islam and I would only be lying..."
You've got owned on this issue before, your ignorance being exposed multiple times n all...so STHU
-
You've got owned on this issue before, your ignorance being exposed multiple times n all...so STHU
BS. You know I'm right.
Your only arguement is "interpretation" and "out of context".
Read the hadiths about Muhammad and his men initiating attacks on jews, killing the men with pubic hair and raping the women.
Go on, tell me I am lying.
-
BS. You know I'm right.
Your only arguement is "interpretation" and "out of context".
Read the hadiths about Muhammad and his men initiating attacks on jews, killing the men with pubic hair and raping the women.
Go on, tell me I am lying.
Which hadiths are you refering to?
-
Try these:
Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38
This one describes muhammad and his men, an unprovoked attack on a Jewish settlement killing ~900 men. Those who had not yet started puberty were spared. It has narrations from one of the Jewish boys explaining what happened. The women/kids were sold as slaves.
Also in Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38 you will find a passage of a blind man who killed his wife and his own unborn child because she protested muhammads prophethood and slandered him. Apparently this is justifyable as muhammad accepted that justice had been surved.
In Sahih Muslim Book 8 Aisha narrates how she was married at 6. Marriage consummated when she was 9.
More on the subject on Aishas age in Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62.
-
I wont go through the whole thing ANOTHER time, so let me just find the old thread where your ass got owned. But I might consider playing nice another time, as much of a cynic as I am, like I did for the first 5 posts in the thread I'm going to recall; hoping that you can "debate" without spewing your bullshit anti-Islamic hate mongeringand act like a normal human being. hahahahahah, epic delusions "haidar".
-
hoping that you can "debate" without spewing your bullshit anti-Islamic hate mongeringand act
Thats' your only arguement EVER tho...
Falsify my above points instead of feeling like the victim all the time (typical muzzie tactics).
Muhammad was a disgrace, and I think the realisation is setting in for you.
-
Try these:
Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38
This one describes muhammad and his men, an unprovoked attack on a Jewish settlement killing ~900 men. Those who had not yet started puberty were spared. It has narrations from one of the Jewish boys explaining what happened. The women/kids were sold as slaves.
I can't find this text anywhere in the Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38. Do you have the actuall text?
Also in Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38 you will find a passage of a blind man who killed his wife and his own unborn child because she protested muhammads prophethood and slandered him. Apparently this is justifyable as muhammad accepted that justice had been surved.
Book 38, Number 4348:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
How can Haider defend this?
In Sahih Muslim Book 8 Aisha narrates how she was married at 6. Marriage consummated when she was 9.
More on the subject on Aishas age in Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62.
The age Aisha's was married is a big controversy in Islam. The texts seem to contract themselves in the age she was married. Some imply 9 and others imply much much later.
For instance her supposed age was written down during a time when there was a big upheaval in Islam and the predecessor was Mohammed was unknown. The could of lied about her age and made her seem younger so she couldn't be considered a descendent of Mohammeds cousin ibn Abi and thus the predecessor of prophet of Islam. They didn't want a female prophet.
She was said to of joined Mohammed in the Battle of Badr. No one below 15 was allowed to join in raids. The raid was in 624 AD and she would of had to of been above 15, Meaning she had to of been atleast 13 during the marriage.
In the Sirat Rashul Allah it records Aisha converting to Islam around 610 AD. Meaning she would of had to of been able to atleast talk and walk to convert, meaning at minimum she would of been atleast 15 at 622 AD.
That is the best defense that can be given for that marriage.
Other less credible defenses might be..
1.Mohammed probably didn't have sex with her until she was much older. Or possibly never.
2.During the time of Mohammed many young girls were married at young ages all around the world including Britain where young girls were often married as young as 8 or 9.
I doubt you'll get a better defense from haider.
-
I can't find this text anywhere in the Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38. Do you have the actuall text?
If you can't find it online i'd have to scan and OCR it. I'll try finding a online reference later.
-
Thats' your only arguement EVER tho...
Falsify my above points instead of feeling like the victim all the time (typical muzzie tactics).
Muhammad was a disgrace, and I think the realisation is setting in for you.
The point here is simple:
You have no clue about Islam.
But you pretend to do so by visiting and thereafter quoting antiIslamic websites.
Therefore, you have no knowledge of your own, so clearly you are NOT looking at this with an open, and OBJECTIVE mind.
So all you are doing is spewing anti-islamic bullshit from websites. You truly are a hate mongerer and nothing else.
For example, I took up the challenge to explain the Quranic verses u asked me to explain, and so I did. I even explained to you the meaning of the arabic words used and the context it was used in. All you did was brush it off as my own interpretation, and declared your own interpretation as the true one [LOL]. O' objective one, who are YOU to "interpret" a verse, when clearly:
#1: you have no background in Islamic knowledge.
#2: you have a strong bias against muslims
#3: you present a singled out verse and dont even know the context, much less post it for us [LOL, fucking idiot]
#4: you are only seeing a SIMPLE english translation; meaning what you read and what u quote hasn't been translated appropriattely, hence it is SIMPLE, meaning no so-called interprretation can be dervioed from it you numbnut.
Lastly, f**k you for wasting my time >:(
-
Tyrone, thank you for your response. If that wasnt a copy paste, you clearly are more knowledgebale about the ahadith than I am. I have read the explanation that you have presented before(funny how manni never came across it though its widely available on google where he gets the rest of his anti islamic bullshit), and you put it way better than I could have, so I thank you for that.
-
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66429.25 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66429.25)
Here's manni pretending he has a clue abt anything, and gets owned by 3 different people in the same thread. (this is the thread I was referring to earlier in this thread)
-
#1: you have no background in Islamic knowledge.
Ad Hominem
#2: you have a strong bias against muslims
Ad Hominem
#3: you present a singled out verse and dont even know the context, much less post it for us [LOL, fucking idiot]
Usually the hadiths are in little stories where the entire context is presented. As in the hadith I posted about the blind man killing his wife and Mohammed accepting it.
#4: you are only seeing a SIMPLE english translation; meaning what you read and what u quote hasn't been translated appropriattely, hence it is SIMPLE, meaning no so-called interprretation can be dervioed from it you numbnut.
Do you speak arabic?
Can you translate them "correctly" for us?
I would believe the muslim arabic speaking translators would translate it better than you ever could.
-
Haider,
The point about Arabic to English translation is a fallacy.
#2: you have a strong bias against muslims
Because of my research into the koran.
But you are unable to accept this. Everything in the koran is morally justified to you.
-
let me get home bitches >:(
;)
-
let me get home bitches >:(
;)
No ones stopping you, you live in a FREE country!
Unlike many middle east-islamic countries 8)
-
Ad Hominem
Nope. That is a fact. Manni has absolutely no clue abt Islam. Googling a few pages of anti islamic websites does NOT count for anything except that it shows his BIAS...which was my second point.
Ad Hominem
As mentioned above, this is not adhominem, it is a fact. Manni wants all muslims killed. The point here is that there is a LACK of objectivity, and the only thing fueling his arguments his is fear and bias towards muslims.
Usually the hadiths are in little stories where the entire context is presented. As in the hadith I posted about the blind man killing his wife and Mohammed accepting it.
Do you speak arabic?
Can you translate them "correctly" for us?
Yes, I wasn't referring to the ahadith he posted. I was just mentioning an old argument we had earlier in the year to show why it is useless to debate him on this issue. All he does is copy paste anti islamic propagnda, and if I can recall correctly u grew sick and tired of copy pastes from christian sites too. So maybe you can feel where I'm coming from. It is near impossible to have a rational argument with this manni character.
-
But you are unable to accept this. Everything in the koran is morally justified to you.
That right there IS ad hominem. You have no intelligent argument to Offer. Must I tell u again that I don't wanna go through this whole thing again?
Haider,
The point about Arabic to English translation is a fallacy.
It applies 100% to the quranic verses u posted earlier in the year. And what did u do when u were cornered abt your ignorance and complete lack of anything intelligent to offer? You jumped around and deviated the argument to unrelated anti islamic copy pastes.
Because of my research into the koran.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, I hope for your own sake that you are kidding.
-
Translate the koranic verus for us again that have been stated.
Also translate the stories from the hadiths properly for us, so that they have nothing to do with attacking a jewish settlement, killing 900 men and raping the women and taking them and the kids as slaves.
Are you going to deny this?
-
I don't find haidar being a Muslim better or worse than him being a Christian.
Most likely, he didn't choose his religion, his cultural upbringing did.
As it does for most of us.
If he had been brought up in India, he'd been Hindu, if he were born in Texas, he'd been NeoConChristian. Had he been born in Japan, perhaps he'd been Shinto.
I think manni should back off a little.
The million dollar question that needs to be asked to haidar, is:
Do you believe in everything that is written in the Quran?
YIP
Zack
-
Firstly... more liberal apologetic behaviour in favour of muslims from one of my fellow norse... NOT IMPRESSED >:(
He's the one denying truths in the koran that speak of satanic behaviour in the name of "allah". His prophet was a rapist kiddy fiddler.
I can't criticise islam hedgehog?
I think manni should back off a little.
Secondly I am now known as:
Nordic Superman
-
Firstly... more liberal apologetic behaviour in favour of muslims from one of my fellow norse... NOT IMPRESSED >:(
He's the one denying truths in the koran that speak of satanic behaviour in the name of "allah". His prophet was a rapist kiddy fiddler.
I can't criticise islam hedgehog?
Secondly I am now known as:
Nordic Superman
Ok, NS.
My point being, are you sure that haidar is a true Muslim and believes in everything that is written in the Quran?
If he doesn't believe in the premise that the Quran was written by God (using his prophet Muhammed as sort of a "pen"), then
Also, I believe there is little meaning in making haidar responsible for Islam.
Of course, most of what you claim is true.
The problem with Muhammed doing all these things, underage marriages et al, is that God was giving him the Green light for it.
Thus, Muhammed was enlightened by God. And has no excuses for being a pedophile.
Traditions or whatever, but the fact remains, if God was involved in a minor being married to the Prophet...
That's a big problem.
Other big problems are how the Quran have different laws for men and women. Now, the argument could be made that women actually were treated better with the introduction of Quran laws (Sharia).
Still. God wrote the Quran. He could have made women equal if he had wanted to.
He didn't.
Bottom line: Islam sucks. Not just in theory either. It's a younger religion than Christianity, so it will need time to become "neutralized".
Christian zealots are at work all over the world though.
YIP
Zack
-
The problem with Muhammed doing all these things, underage marriages et al, is that God was giving him the Green light for it.
Thus, Muhammed was enlightened by God. And has no excuses for being a pedophile.
Muhammad was a self-proclaimer... anyone can do this, the leader of scientology rings a bell.
I could proclaim I am a prophet of God, rape a few women, and right a nice holy book detailing how it was justified etc etc.
I will just say "I am a prophet of God! He gave me the green light to rape this women! I was clensing them!"
Haider supports the belief system that is "islam", because of this I have all the right in the world to criticise it/him because he supports it. If you find my posts uncomfortable then don't read them.
-
Still. God wrote the Quran.
Hedge, do you believe this?
-
Hedge, do you believe this?
I've just re-read what Hedge wrote didn't pick on some things at first.
He is either a muslim or a muslim appeasing liberal. Either way his comments disgust me. When are you going to wake the fuck up Hedge?
Passing off shit like "God wrote the koran" as fact.
You're a fucking DISGRACE.
-
Translate the koranic verus for us again that have been stated.
I ALREADY did on that thread! I told you that you are only repeating your old behavior. You must analyse yourself so u can avoid being a pain in the ass for the rest of us, otherwise u will never change even though u may go through temporary phases of not being such a jackass (being absent from getbig was a step in the right direction)
Also translate the stories from the hadiths properly for us, so that they have nothing to do with attacking a jewish settlement, killing 900 men and raping the women and taking them and the kids as slaves.
Are you going to deny this?
I'm not sure of the details of the killing of the jewsih tribe, but from what I'm told, it was a punishment for betrayal of a peace agreement. This is the equivalent of hanging someone for treason in modern governments. But I must admit I have not read those ahadith and dont really know abt the details. On the other hand, u just read a few anti islamic things and pass them off as "Research". You have no knowledge. Ignorance breeds hatred, and you my friend are a living proof of this. It is a shame that you are condemning the introduction of OBJECTIVITY, as you did by calling Hedgehog a disgrace.
-
The million dollar question that needs to be asked to haidar, is:
Do you believe in everything that is written in the Quran?
YIP
Zack
I wouldn't be a muslim otherwise now would I? ;) Yes I believe the Quran is the direct word of God.
-
Stop with the frivolous arguements infidel.
Your whole arguement revolves around me being ignorant and bigoted.
How about you prove me wrong with evidence?
Oh, and about raping women... both British and American law is built on old "English Common Law", in which the rape of women has NEVER been a punishment for treason.
-
Stop with the frivolous arguements infidel.
Your whole arguement revolves around me being ignorant and bigoted.
How about you prove me wrong with evidence?
Oh, and about raping women... both British and American law is built on old "English Common Law", in which the rape of women has NEVER been a punishment for treason.
It is NOT a frivolous argument..this is the CORE of the whole issue. You only bring this up because you have an intense and unfounded hatred of muslims. No matter what I say or which one fo your claims I falsify, you will only go back to your googled anti-islamic websites and bring more bullshit(as was witnessed in the other threads). You see, you are not here to learn and ask questions objectively. You are here to stir shit up and vent your anger abt muslims. Shut the fuck up.
-
Stop with the frivolous arguements infidel.
Your whole arguement revolves around me being ignorant and bigoted.
How about you prove me wrong with evidence?
Oh, and about raping women... both British and American law is built on old "English Common Law", in which the rape of women has NEVER been a punishment for treason.
Like I said before, I have not researched into this matter and I am sure as hell that raping of women was NOT approved by muhammed (pbuh). The jsutificationo for that is unfounded in the Holy Quran.
-
Read the hadith as stated in above posts.
Same old arguement... same old arguement... :-\
-
Read the hadith as stated in above posts.
Same old arguement... same old arguement... :-\
I'll research it ONLY if someone objective asks for my opinion, like Hedgehog. I'm not wasting my time on you, as I have done too much of that in the past (always in the hopes that u might change ur attitude but to no avail).
Manni I'll make it simple:
You raise these questions because you read them on an anti-islamic website. You do not even know the context of anything you post.
If I wished, I could quote a line out of a physics book to 'prove' it is evil, much as u do so by quoting the Quran. I doubt many would take me seriously and try to argue with me, but u know what? I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to do the research for u to answer your questions, as I have done in the past. But it is upto you to find in yourself the capacity to look at something with an open mind. For example, I asked u once if u could read 3 verses before and after a given verse that u claimed was "violent". Not only did you fail miserably, but in a cowardly fashion diverted the topic to a different argument.
The problem here lies in your intentions, and the only reason u do this is to find negative things abt something u know nothing abt...this is called "Islamophobia". I can't correct that.
-
Haider, bro, you live in the States, a land of privilege. Please let the Koran go, let Islam go. Wake up!Atheism is the right way!
And whether or god wrote the Koran or not is a non issue. First of all religious texts were written by people with the intent of enforcing their ideals, and secondly god doesn't exist.
-
I'll research it ONLY if someone objective asks for my opinion, like Hedgehog. I'm not wasting my time on you, as I have done too much of that in the past (always in the hopes that u might change ur attitude but to no avail).
Manni I'll make it simple:
You raise these questions because you read them on an anti-islamic website. You do not even know the context of anything you post.
If I wished, I could quote a line out of a physics book to 'prove' it is evil, much as u do so by quoting the Quran. I doubt many would take me seriously and try to argue with me, but u know what? I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to do the research for u to answer your questions, as I have done in the past. But it is upto you to find in yourself the capacity to look at something with an open mind. For example, I asked u once if u could read 3 verses before and after a given verse that u claimed was "violent". Not only did you fail miserably, but in a cowardly fashion diverted the topic to a different argument.
The problem here lies in your intentions, and the only reason u do this is to find negative things abt something u know nothing abt...this is called "Islamophobia". I can't correct that.
Beating the same old drum... :-X
Quote me some text in a Physics book to "prove" it's evil.
-
Beating the same old drum... :-X
Quote me some text in a Physics book to "prove" it's evil.
yes it takes a lot to beat a concept into you. You seem to be the stubborn kind. The issues I raise are legitimate, and the argument will go no where if they are left unaddressed. That is all.
-
Haider, bro, you live in the States, a land of privilege. Please let the Koran go, let Islam go. Wake up!Atheism is the right way!
And whether or god wrote the Koran or not is a non issue. First of all religious texts were written by people with the intent of enforcing their ideals, and secondly god doesn't exist.
Amen:
Atheism, a non-prophet Organisation
yes it takes a lot to beat a concept into you. You seem to be the stubborn kind. The issues I raise are legitimate, and the argument will go no where if they are left unaddressed. That is all.
Quote me some text in a Physics book to "prove" it's evil.
-
It was a rhetorical argument u idiot ::)
-
It was a rhetorical argument u idiot ::)
Meaning you're unable to do it, meaning your point is frivilous and invalid.
-
Meaning you're unable to do it, meaning your point is frivilous and invalid.
Oh brother. I think you're just trying to piss me off now :-\
-
Oh brother. I think you're just trying to piss me off now :-\
Being easily angered is a trait of many muslims.
-
Being easily angered is a trait of many muslims.
haha, by that logic you are one of us ;D
I stand by my argument, and the fact that u are obsessing abt a rhetorical argument tells me nothing is getting through to you(kind of ironic). That is frustrating.
-
haha, by that logic you are one of us ;D
I stand by my argument, and the fact that u are obsessing abt a rhetorical argument tells me nothing is getting through to you(kind of ironic). That is frustrating.
You have this mixed up.
Nothing is getting thru to YOU. You take the koran at face value. You believe the world was created in 6 days. You believe a pedo was a prophet.
Narrow minded fool :-[
-
You have this mixed up.
Nothing is getting thru to YOU. You take the koran at face value. You believe the world was created in 6 days. You believe a pedo was a prophet.
Narrow minded fool :-[
fucking ad hominem. Every one of those things apply completely to yourself u deluded fool. It is imposible to have a rational discusssion with your kind.
-
fucking ad hominem. Every one of those things apply completely to yourself u deluded fool. It is imposible to have a rational discusssion with your kind.
::)
This tennis match of insults is getting boring now.
-
Am i beating u at your own game, you asshole?
Never argue with an idiot [manni], for he will make u look like one in the process.
Never argue with an asshole [manni], for he will bring u down to his own level and beat you with experience.
-
Am i beating u at your own game, you asshole?
Never argue with an idiot [manni], for he will make u look like one in the process.
Never argue with an asshole [manni], for he will bring u down to his own level and beat you with experience.
Very poor come back.
This is going nowhere because you're unable to attain evidence that defeats mine.
-
Very poor come back.
This is going nowhere because you're unable to attain evidence that defeats mine.
I'm back bitches. This is too much fun to let go of. Poor come back? Those are jsut sayings that I put into my own words, as they apply to this situation. The only missing link here is your objectivity, and an open mind.
-
Nope. That is a fact. Manni has absolutely no clue abt Islam. Googling a few pages of anti islamic websites does NOT count for anything except that it shows his BIAS...which was my second point.
As mentioned above, this is not adhominem, it is a fact. Manni wants all muslims killed. The point here is that there is a LACK of objectivity, and the only thing fueling his arguments his is fear and bias towards muslims.
Just because it's a fact doesn't mean it isn't an Ad Hominem fallacy.
-
Just because it's a fact doesn't mean it isn't an Ad Hominem fallacy.
It is not.
-
It is not.
Example of Ad Hominem...
Clintons policy on poverty is absurd because he cheated on his wife!
This is a perfect example of an Ad hominem. The person is attacking clinton himself and his personal actions opposed to attacking his argument or policy. Yes Clinton cheated on his wife, This is true. However it's still an Ad Hominem.
In Latin argumentum ad hominem literally means "Argument against the person". True or false it's an Ad hominem.
You stated...
#1: you have no background in Islamic knowledge.
This is an ad hominem even if it's true. His background has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand. If he is wrong then prove he is wrong without attacking his person or his creds.
#2: you have a strong bias against muslims
This is another ad hominem because you're attacking the person and not the argument. Obviously he has a bias against muslims. This doesn't make him wrong.
I have a bias against pedophiles. Does it mean all arguments I make against them are wrong? No.
-
You are quoting me out of context. Rather, it is a case of misunderstanding. I never even started to pick out his arguments on this thread that he intially copy pasted from some googled up websites.
I simply refused to argue with him abt it as I thought it was useless, and hence my argument abt him (that u declared was ad hominem).
If u read up the thread a little more (2nd page) u will understand why this thread has been so stagnant. You may also wanna check out the link that I posted on the first page to see the outcome of an attempted rational discussion with manni.
-
You are quoting me out of context.
Also classic Johnny ;D
-
See what you started, Stella? ;)
If u have any questions, I will try to answer them. :)
-
See what you started, Stella? ;)
If u have any questions, I will try to answer them. :)
Thank you so much haider, OK if I make this a sticky? :) Thanks!
-
Haider, for some people a big part of Christianity is the worship music that glorifies and encourages the worship of Jesus and God.
Is worship music for Allah/Muhammed a large part of Islam?
-
I'll research that for u so I can speak about it a little better, but until then here's my answer.
Music is probably the reason I am a muslim today actually. My ancestors in India probably would not have converted to Islam had it not been for the influence of Sufi Islam, which helped spread Islam through music.
So what christian rock is these days is somewhat the equivalent of Sufi music, except it was used as a tool to evangelise also (I dont think christian has that much of an influence on non-christians). Personally, I dont listen to Sufi music and it has never been an influence for me.
Here's what I could google up about Sufism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism)
And no, music is not a big part of the religion itself, though it has been used to spread the Islamic message. Many muslims actually think that music is forbidden in Islam(music that is made with modern instruments), especially the "hardcore" fundamentalist ones like the Taliban. However, this belief is unfounded and there is no sound proof of this claim in the Holy Quran.
Ofcourse there is much more depth to the issue than that, and this is precisely why I wished there was a more knowledgeable muslim on here(even a non-muslim, a certain "johnny" was able to help out ;D).
-
Is worship music for Allah/Muhammed a large part of Islam?
There is "musical" worship in Islam, called "Hamd". However, this is differentiated from music (by those who think music is forbidden) as it doesnt involve the use of instruments(or atleast the ones that are used are very simple ones).
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_music)
We do NOT worship Muhammed(pbuh), so any music related to him is not "worship" music, rather it is poems that are sung in his praise. These poems, or this kind of music is called "Naat"
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naat)
-
I'm out for now, I will be back later.
-
Thanks haider!
Muhammed(pbuh),
Strangely enough, this was my next question...I had seen the term/word Pbuh and wondered what it was.....
It's another name for Muhammed? Or his title?
-
Thanks haider!
Strangely enough, this was my next question...I had seen the term/word Pbuh and wondered what it was.....
It's another name for Muhammed? Or his title?
i know i know..pbuh comes after every phophet name..it means " peace be upon him"
-
The drunkard paki is right. We use the "pbuh" for all prophets.
-
i win! ;D
-
hey junaid, is your family religious at all? I know u mention ur dad sometimes and that he still is a muslim and what not. I'm a bit curious.
-
hey junaid, is your family religious at all? I know u mention ur dad sometimes and that he still is a muslim and what not. I'm a bit curious.
ya..dad n mum pray around once daily... :) they do it together..its cute :)
the rest...umm not really..we gather for eid..n thats all... :-\
-
yea its pretty much teh same in my house, though none of us are atheists. Mom's the most religious one. I used to be really into religion, but thats faded out quite a bit (bad thing...BAD thing) due to laziness. Hopefully this thread will serve as some inspiration to get me readin some Islamic literature again.
Anyhoo, Pakistan's kickin ass!! (cricket) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I've got a link that works beautifully ;D
-
I've got a link that works beautifully ;D
where is shoaib? >:(
-
Why is music banned in a lot of muslim communities?
Does islam allow freedom of expression?
Why are womens rights so terrible in islamic countries?
Why did muhammad have sex with a 9 year old girl?
Can you detail the assassination of Asma bint Marwan and justify it?
What about the massacre of the Jews at the Khaybar oasis? How is this justified?
What about the murder of hundreds of prisoners of the Banu Qurayza?
-
Why is music banned in a lot of muslim communities?
didnt know this...everyone i know listens to music...now if ya show up at my house blaring slip knot..my mum will take offence..nothing to do withy religion..just bad manners..
Does islam allow freedom of expression?
yes.
Why are womens rights so terrible in islamic countries?
cause most are 3rd world countries...and people are uneducated...what ws the saying i heard growing up ..." under your mothers feet lies the path to heaven" or something along that lines..
Why did muhammad have sex with a 9 year old girl?
cause she ws a hottie? ???
-
Piss poor answers
-
Piss poor answers
Well toxy or I can't account for the deaths, but you could play music in my house all day.
-
I just got back from a straight 12 hr drive back from fort benning gerorgi :o Not so tired as I spent much of the time layin on my ass reading pakistani politics and sleeping ;D
Anyway, before I attempt to answer your questions I sense that there have to be certain things that need to be agreed upon(as I have indicated a million times already). I may point to them in more detail after getting a bit of rest, and researching into my past dealings with your imbecility. This will will help us avoid the recurrence of of past frustrations in dealing with your jackass. Ofcourse, this goes against the idea of a "learning" environment as you have no intention of doing so. But I might play nice.
-
reading pakistani politics
How attached from religion is the pakistani goverment?
In Britain it's totally detached, the US somewhat attached.
-
One thing with Islam, once in, it's a very hard thing to do to leave the religion.
Islam is very open, has a place for everyone if you will.
But it's not really a good idea to consider leaving it.
Thus, there are probably many "Muslims". ;D
YIP
Zack
-
Well, when you achieve moral conciousnous it's quite easy: http://www.faithfreedom.org/testimonials.htm
-
Piss poor answers
piss pooah questions...
i showed you a mirror..tats al...yeesh man...do some cocaine or something... :-\
-
Well toxy or I can't account for the deaths, but you could play music in my house all day.
i'm not nordic ya girl...gimme some credit >:(
i'm smarter..
better looking..
and have been laid more...
well more than most on this board.. ;D
-
better looking..
and have been laid more...
Better looking? ROFL i've seen a pic of you (I think). My nordic jawline and perfectly formed caucasoid nose own you!
There's a better chance unicorns exists than you telling the truth muzzy boy.
-
Better looking? ROFL i've seen a pic of you (I think). My nordic jawline and perfectly formed caucasoid nose own you!
There's a better chance unicorns exists than you telling the truth muzzy boy.
;D
-
Better looking? ROFL i've seen a pic of you (I think). My nordic jawline and perfectly formed caucasoid nose own you!
There's a better chance unicorns exists than you telling the truth muzzy boy.
post a pic then schkookums.... :)..till then its all talk
-
oo oo i'll post my new pix on the general as soon as i get em back from cvs..beng developed..post yours in that thread..i dare ya :-)
-
oo oo i'll post my new pix on the general as soon as i get em back from cvs..beng developed..post yours in that thread..i dare ya :-)
I have to stay anonymous. Some of my opinions might lead to me being fired.
But I know for a fact I'm physically superior to you.
I'm also not a coked up drunken islamic lunatic.
I win.
-
I have to stay anonymous. Some of my opinions might lead to me being fired.
But I know for a fact I'm physically superior to you.
I'm also not a coked up drunken islamic lunatic.
I win.
Translation : i have a muslim boss..lol..
hon..i have moughal blood..ie the blood of kings running thru my veins...
u be a commoner..my mum would prolly throw out the plates ya ate out of..if ya did ...nothing 2 do with religion..just a superior class boobie..you wil wrk all your life...hey you say you have a boss...i dont have to lift a finger for the rest of my life if i chose not to :)
now go look at your self in the mirror and tell yourself over n over again " i'm better cause i'm white" :)
..its ok ..anyone reading the past 6 months of mine and yours posts can tell the difference in class and upbringing :)
-
Haha you're a lunatic that's full-o-shit! You don't know anything about my professional life, my bosse(s) certainly aren't muslim.
Blood of kings? Hahaha give me a break.
The only cool kings have ever been the Norse/Mongels/Japs. The rest are home-staying pussies, genetic weak links, especially fucking muzzies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal (yeah, you didn't even spell it correctly...)
Blood of kings? Hahaha you sound like a fag!
I bet the "kings" in your family are really proud their "prince" posts bullshit on getbig, moans about his personal life and posts his homo-erotic pics?
Oh, and inherited wealth is NOTHING to be proud about.
-
Here is an article for those who are obsessed with the marriage of Muhammed to Aisha:
http://www.muslim-answers.org/Polemics-Rebuttals/aishah.htm
And regarding the fate of jews after the the siege of Bani-Kureizha please read this article:
http://www.faithfreedom.com/ali_sina_exposed/truth_about_jews.htm
Thank You
-
Here is an article for those who are obsessed with the marriage of Muhammed to Aisha:
http://www.muslim-answers.org/Polemics-Rebuttals/aishah.htm
And regarding the fate of jews after the the siege of Bani-Kureizha please read this article:
http://www.faithfreedom.com/ali_sina_exposed/truth_about_jews.htm
Thank You
Pro-Islamic links?
You can't have it both ways! Right haider?
(http://www.jihadwatch.org/m6.jpeg)
-
That picture is actually pretty funny. ;D
-
Haha you're a lunatic that's full-o-shit! You don't know anything about my professional life, my bosse(s) certainly aren't muslim.
Blood of kings? Hahaha give me a break.
The only cool kings have ever been the Norse/Mongels/Japs. The rest are home-staying pussies, genetic weak links, especially fucking muzzies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal (yeah, you didn't even spell it correctly...)
Blood of kings? Hahaha you sound like a fag!
I bet the "kings" in your family are really proud their "prince" posts bullshit on getbig, moans about his personal life and posts his homo-erotic pics?
Oh, and inherited wealth is NOTHING to be proud about.
inherited wealth is nothing 2 be proud ot lol...soo u aren't proud of your royals..hmmm ;D
me thinks me hurt it...lol
-
inherited wealth is nothing 2 be proud ot lol...soo u aren't proud of your royals..hmmm ;D
me thinks me hurt it...lol
Heritage is one thing, bragging about never having to work is another.
Where are these pics lover boy? :-*
Has anyone got any old photos of toxic... I need a cheap laugh...
-
Hey guys, since this is a "Learning Thread" can we please try to keep it somewhat about LEARNING? There are other threads in which to bash each other.
Sometimes we hate or fear things we don't understand or agree with.
Sometimes we have preconceived notions of something and later find we were mistaken (in part or in whole).
But let's decide, at least just on Learning Threads please, to LEARN about why people hold the beliefs that they do.
I appreciate the "educators" on our Learning Threads.
Thanks everyone, for your cooperation :)
-
Hey guys, since this is a "Learning Thread" can we please try to keep it somewhat about LEARNING? There are other threads in which to bash each other.
Sometimes we hate or fear things we don't understand or agree with.
Sometimes we have preconceived notions of something and later find we were mistaken (in part or in whole).
But let's decide, at least just on Learning Threads please, to LEARN about why people hold the beliefs that they do.
I appreciate the "educators" on our Learning Threads.
Thanks everyone, for your cooperation :)
Fair enough:
More on muhammad: http://www.prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41023
-
Heritage is one thing, bragging about never having to work is another.
Where are these pics lover boy? :-*
Has anyone got any old photos of toxic... I need a cheap laugh...
dont worry..i pick em up friday..i'll post emby monday...make sure u have your vaseline ready..
also...our money is generations and generations old..soo how many generations before it becomes heritage??...you're just a bitter bitter man lol
-
Hey guys, since this is a "Learning Thread" can we please try to keep it somewhat about LEARNING? There are other threads in which to bash each other.
Sometimes we hate or fear things we don't understand or agree with.
Sometimes we have preconceived notions of something and later find we were mistaken (in part or in whole).
But let's decide, at least just on Learning Threads please, to LEARN about why people hold the beliefs that they do.
I appreciate the "educators" on our Learning Threads.
Thanks everyone, for your cooperation :)
ok stells! :)
-
dont worry..i pick em up friday..i'll post emby monday...make sure u have your vaseline ready..
also...our money is generations and generations old..soo how many generations before it becomes heritage??...you're just a bitter bitter man lol
I mean heritage as in:
My great great grandfather helped found New South Wales.
NOT:
My relatives many moons ago raped and pillaged the people of Indian for all their worth. I now benefit from this and brag about it on Getbig.com! I'm so cool!
-
I think religion and culture do tend to get mixed up in this debate.
There are something like 5-6 or major forms of Islam.
Most have their own customs, just like any major denomimation.
I still don't get the notion of Apostasy. Why kill someone for changing religion.
I also don't under stand why secular muslims are not more vocal about the problems with conservative mulsims.
For example most secular christians apose consverative christians.
-
I also don't under stand why secular muslims are not more vocal about the problems with conservative mulsims.
For example most secular christians apose consverative christians.
Because they have the same goal, it's just that one group is vocal about it.
-
I mean heritage as in:
My great great grandfather helped found New South Wales.
NOT:
My relatives many moons ago raped and pillaged the people of Indian for all their worth. I now benefit from this and brag about it on Getbig.com! I'm so cool!
pot..kettel..meh..
-
I think religion and culture do tend to get mixed up in this debate.
There are something like 5-6 or major forms of Islam.
Most have their own customs, just like any major denomimation.
I still don't get the notion of Apostasy. Why kill someone for changing religion.
I also don't under stand why secular muslims are not more vocal about the problems with conservative mulsims.
For example most secular christians apose consverative christians.
actually the koran in plain text says forcing someone to change religion is murder..and an unexcusable sin..
now nord is gonna most some link about killing infidels...from what i know..well hell just watch the video i posted on the " who is afraid of islam " thread on the general....
-
actually the koran in plain text says forcing someone to change religion is murder..and an unexcusable sin..
now nord is gonna most some link about killing infidels...from what i know..well hell just watch the video i posted on the " who is afraid of islam " thread on the general....
Your evidence is islamic propaganda you fool, zero cred.
I take it straight from the bad book.
-
Your evidence is islamic propaganda you fool, zero cred.
I take it straight from the bad book.
just watch the vid...the only place were the koran says to use force is when you yourself are attacked...of course folks leave that out..
-
just watch the vid...the only place were the koran says to use force is when you yourself are attacked...of course folks leave that out..
Of course the video leaves out the rest of the koran you mean.
PROPOGANDA
-
Toxic-
Do you believe in Apostasy?
Why should a muslim be killed for becoming a christian, or buddist.
-
Of course the video leaves out the rest of the koran you mean.
PROPOGANDA
Manni, dont make me embarass you by posting the link to that ONE thread again.
-
Manni, dont make me embarass you by posting the link to that ONE thread again.
Boring. Post the thread link.
BTW...
Is it true your mother has 1 testicle and 1 ovary?
-
HAHAHAHA, manni...how do I put this without putting you down again. You post and research anti-Islamic links EXCLUSIVELY and refuse to look at a harmless "pro"-islamic videos (wouldn't like to call it that, its just info about islam rather than the propagation of..). Therein lies the problem...zero objectivity, all hatred.
-
Toxic-
Do you believe in Apostasy?
Why should a muslim be killed for becoming a christian, or buddist.
i'm from a muslim family and i'm an athiest..i'm still alive...
islam does not say kill people cause they change religion..murder is one of the 5 or so unforgivable sins in islam...(rape..is another)..if ya commit one of these no MATTER HOW MUCH YA REPENT YA GO TO HELL..
also unlike other religions..being muslim does not mean ya automatically go to heaven...
and non muslims can end up in heaven according to islam.haider correct me if i'm wrong
-
The Quran in a verse describes the Christians, the jews, and the sabians(and ofcourse the MUZZY's!!) as those "who shall not fear nor grieve." Belief in [one] God is key though. Some claim that Muhammed(pbuh) intiallly didnt even preach to the christians and jews...which I can understnad because Muhammed never claimed to have brought a new religion, but merely a continuation of the original Abrahamic religion...I doubt that claim very much though.
As for heaven and hell, even Muhammed didn't know...or claim that he was going to heaven. Humility is a big part of Islam(meaning you do the best u can and hope for the best in this life and the hereafter...leaving it upto God to decide your fate, unlike the christians, and I dont say this negatively, who claim they are going to heaven), which is something you display when u bow down in front of God.
-
humility??? u know u r on a bodybuilding site rite haider??lol ;D
-
In Christianity non-believers can go to heaven as well.
The Calling of Matthew
9As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
True belief in Christ means you automatically go to heaven.
What I have always taken from this is that Non-believers that live a true and just life life can go to heaven as well.
The whole notion of sin gets complicated though as Jesus says everyone is a sinner.
Thanks, Toxic and Haider.
-
HAHAHAHA, manni...how do I put this without putting you down again. You post and research anti-Islamic links EXCLUSIVELY and refuse to look at a harmless "pro"-islamic videos (wouldn't like to call it that, its just info about islam rather than the propagation of..). Therein lies the problem...zero objectivity, all hatred.
Who said I haven't seen the video?
You can't have it both way muzzy girl. You see to find it acceptable to write off anything negative I say about islam, but believe all the positives you read. Selective objectivism. Typical muslim behaviour the world over.
Toxic, sure your parents haven't killed you because of social demands/responsabilities and laws in the western world.
If you was living in pakistan, iran, any muslim third world shit hole you would be slaughtered.
-
In Christianity non-believers can go to heaven as well.
The Calling of Matthew
9As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
True belief in Christ means you automatically go to heaven.
What I have always taken from this is that Non-believers that live a true and just life life can go to heaven as well.
The whole notion of sin gets complicated though as Jesus says everyone is a sinner.
Thanks, Toxic and Haider.
hmm didn't know that..thought ya HAD to accept jesus christ into your heart to get to heaven...
as for sin goes..in silam apparently no one sarts out a sinner...but ech and every action and thought is written down and on the day of judgement the bad and good are weighed..
thanx for the info :)
-
humility??? u know u r on a bodybuilding site rite haider??lol ;D
hahaha, yes we got plenty of those egomaniac low self-esteem tards here *cough* Nordic *cough* ;D ;D
-
i'm extremly humuluous! :D
-
More versus about exceptance
Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Rom&chapter=2&translation=nltp&x=10&y=13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Rom&chapter=2&translation=nltp&x=10&y=13)
God's Judgment of Sin
You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things. 2 And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. 3 Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and not judge you when you do them, too? 4 Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin?
5 But no, you won't listen. So you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself because of your stubbornness in refusing to turn from your sin. For there is going to come a day of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, 6 will judge all people according to what they have done. 7 He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. 8 But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and practice evil deeds. 9 There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning-for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. 10 But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good-for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 God will punish the Gentiles when they sin, even though they never had God's written law. And he will punish the Jews when they sin, for they do have the law. 13 For it is not merely knowing the law that brings God's approval. Those who obey the law will be declared right in God's sight. 14 Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. 15 They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right. 16 The day will surely come when God, by Jesus Christ, will judge everyone's secret life. This is my message.
http://
Romans 2
The Jews and the Law
17 If you are a Jew, you are relying on God's law for your special relationship with him. You boast that all is well between yourself and God. 18 Yes, you know what he wants; you know right from wrong because you have been taught his law. 19 You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind and a beacon light for people who are lost in darkness without God. 20 You think you can instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God. For you are certain that in God's law you have complete knowledge and truth.
21 Well then, if you teach others, why don't you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? 22 You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you do it? You condemn idolatry, but do you steal from pagan temples? 23 You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. 24 No wonder the Scriptures say, "The world blasphemes the name of God because of you."*
25 The Jewish ceremony of circumcision is worth something only if you obey God's law. But if you don't obey God's law, you are no better off than an uncircumcised Gentile. 26 And if the Gentiles obey God's law, won't God give them all the rights and honors of being his own people? 27 In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will be much better off than you Jews who are circumcised and know so much about God's law but don't obey it.
28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the Jewish ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not a cutting of the body but a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. Whoever has that kind of change seeks praise from God, not from people.
-
hmm didn't know that..thought ya HAD to accept jesus christ into your heart to get to heaven...
What I believe the bible states is that you MUST accept Christ as Savior to get to heaven. A_joker10 may interpret that non-believers go to heaven, but I just don't see that. :-\
We ALL ARE sinners, and no one is good enough to get in on their own w/o Christ getting them in.
As for Romans 2:7, Good works do not save but are evidence of a life that has been transformed by Christ.
Ephesians 2:8,9: "You are saved by grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS, so that no one can boast."
Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT OF GOD is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Acts 16:31: "..."Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved ...."
John 14:6: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
-
Hey Toxy and haider, does Islam takes any stance on evolution versus creation?
-
What I believe the bible states is that you MUST accept Christ as Savior to get to heaven. A_joker10 may interpret that non-believers go to heaven, but I just don't see that. :-\
We ALL ARE sinners, and no one is good enough to get in on their own w/o Christ getting them in.
As for Romans 2:7, Good works do not save but are evidence of a life that has been transformed by Christ.
Ephesians 2:8,9: "You are saved by grace through faith and NOT OF WORKS, so that no one can boast."
Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT OF GOD is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Acts 16:31: "..."Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved ...."
John 14:6: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Good point STella.
The only sin that cannot be forgiven, is to not accept God and Jesus as his son.
If you accept this, you will go to heaven.
According to Christianity, but this was about Islam, sorry for the interruption.
YIP
Zack
-
Hey Toxy and haider, does Islam takes any stance on evolution versus creation?
i wanna know this also...haider?
wat i ws taught ws that adam and eve were munkeys..seriously..to keep in lieu with science...
-
What I believe the bible states is that you MUST accept Christ as Savior to get to heaven. A_joker10 may interpret that non-believers go to heaven, but I just don't see that. :-\
We ALL ARE sinners, and no one is good enough to get in on their own w/o Christ getting them in.
stella what about the guy that lives on the north pole and dosen't know ANYTHING about any religion..but lives a good life?
in islam he goes to heaven...
where does he go in christianity?
and how can a baby be a sinner?
-
stella what about the guy that lives on the north pole and dosen't know ANYTHING about any religion..but lives a good life?
in islam he goes to heaven...
where does he go in christianity?
Toxy, I don't have an absolute answer for you on that one other than whatever God deems to happen to that person is right and just.
Some would say that if the person has never heard the gospel, then he has not ever "rejected" Christ and thus should go to heaven.
Some would say that since the scripture is clear that "no man comes to the Father except by [Jesus]" John 14:6 .........and "there is salvation in no one else...." Acts 14:12 etc etc. that it is possible that Jesus will choose to "place" the person in heaven if that is His will. According to this view, it's still Jesus getting him in.
Some would say that the person would go to hell.
I just don't really know the answer. Sorry.
and how can a baby be a sinner?
In Genesis we see that Adam and Eve were created w/o sin. Then when they sinned, sin entered the world and affected everything negatively. Everything in the world has the taint of sin. Even plants which we find incredibly beautiful today were probably once much, much more beautiful.
So when babies are born, there is sin present. Now, do babies that die go straight to heaven? I truly believe YES! This is evidenced by King David's baby that died and 2 Samuel 12:23: "...now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
(Also, some people may equate the innocence of the child w/the "ignorance" of one that has not heard the gospel and figure they go to heaven)
-
thanx for the answers Stella! :)
-
Original Sin,
Good discription Stella.
In the catholic church even miscarrages have funeral rights.
http://beehive.thisiscornwall.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=6403&PageID=74150 (http://beehive.thisiscornwall.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=6403&PageID=74150)
The official Catechism of the Catholic Church, while not failing to stress the paramount importance of baptism amid all these uncertainties, teaches that, “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,’ allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.” (1261)
This is a legitimate hope of salvation that must not be denied.
Toxic, Haider what is the stance for Musilms, on Abortion, Gay Marriage, and premartial sex.
-
oh man..not very tolerant..dunn about abortion..i'm pro choice...hell i'm pro choice about EVERYTHING in life ;D
teh gayness is forbidden
pre marital sex ..forbidden..i mean hell muslims make their women stand in the back during prayer cause the prayer includes bending over at one point and between men and women they say a man is more likely to stare at a womans behind than a woman to do...soo def forbidden..
-
Toxy, I don't have an absolute answer for you on that one other than whatever God deems to happen to that person is right and just.
Some would say that if the person has never heard the gospel, then he has not ever "rejected" Christ and thus should go to heaven.
Some would say that since the scripture is clear that "no man comes to the Father except by [Jesus]" John 14:6 .........and "there is salvation in no one else...." Acts 14:12 etc etc. that it is possible that Jesus will choose to "place" the person in heaven if that is His will. According to this view, it's still Jesus getting him in.
Some would say that the person would go to hell.
I just don't really know the answer. Sorry.
In Genesis we see that Adam and Eve were created w/o sin. Then when they sinned, sin entered the world and affected everything negatively. Everything in the world has the taint of sin. Even plants which we find incredibly beautiful today were probably once much, much more beautiful.
So when babies are born, there is sin present. Now, do babies that die go straight to heaven? I truly believe YES! This is evidenced by King David's baby that died and 2 Samuel 12:23: "...now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
(Also, some people may equate the innocence of the child w/the "ignorance" of one that has not heard the gospel and figure they go to heaven)
You're quoting the Bible a lot here.
Remember that the Bible only has one part in it that is the direct words of God. The rest is written by unknowns, and different guys who were no closer to God than anyone else.
The Bible was put together at a Vatican Church meeting. Lots of people voted on what was to be included, and what was to be left out.
My point is, that with Christianity, the most important part is to interpret how Jesus lived his life, and what he wanted us to do. The rest, is merely a book, no more, no less.
It's not more holy than any kind of artifact that is created by Man in honor of God.
YIP
Zack
-
i mean hell muslims make their women stand in the back during prayer cause the prayer includes bending over at one point and between men and women they say a man is more likely to stare at a womans behind than a woman to do...soo def forbidden..
Toxy, does the Qu'ran state that the man is more likely to stare at the booty and so it's forbidden? Or is that more of an accepted tradition?
The official Catechism of the Catholic Church, while not failing to stress the paramount importance of baptism amid all these uncertainties, teaches that, “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,’ allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.” (1261)
a_joker10, do you believe that infant water baptism actually does anything for the infant? Are you Catholic? If so, what do you think about a Catholicism Learning thread that you could be the "educator" for? :D
I don't believe that water baptism for infants is scriptural. IMO, the bible only teaches "believer's baptism." ....but we could either start a water baptism thread or do the Learning thread if you'd like ....since we'll try to keep this one about Islam. :)
-
Actually I am Luthern,
I just like some aspects of the Roman Catholics.
I had a water baptism as this is part of my faith, but I kind of like people making an informed choice of God through confirmation at the minimum o adult baptism at the most.
Feel free to move this.
Haider, Is learning the written language of the Koran very important?
What is Haidth and how do they apply to the Koran. Which takes presidence. Who sets the laws?
In christianity, english versions of the bible are used freely.
-
The Bible was put together at a Vatican Church meeting. Lots of people voted on what was to be included, and what was to be left out.
I've never heard this before ??? Got any evidence?
-
I've never heard this before ??? Got any evidence?
There was a church meet in Hippo, in the 4th century.
Google it.
YIP
Zack
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea)
First Council of Nicea
-
Toxy, does the Qu'ran state that the man is more likely to stare at the booty and so it's forbidden? Or is that more of an accepted tradition?
i think..i am prolly wrong..but in reference to prayer it does say that a man is more likely to stare at teh booty...hense might as well have him stand up front ..personally if a hot chick ws bending over in front of me..i might pray more ;D actually if a man asks a muslim woman ..lets say my sis to pray in front of him she'd give the guy a half angry "riiiiight" look
my mom and dad always pray side by side..its kinda cute and disheartening at the same time..to see people bow down at nothing :-\
-
Toxy, does the Qu'ran state that the man is more likely to stare at the booty and so it's forbidden? Or is that more of an accepted tradition?
Stella, I think you should give the Quran a try.
It's a pretty short book, and fairly easy-read IMO (the English Version ;D)
Always good to have first hand knowledge IMO.
YIP
Zack
-
damn, sorry gays my laptop is out of order so I wasn't able to access the internet for a couple of days (college started :'()
-
damn, sorry gays my laptop is out of order so I wasn't able to access the internet for a couple of days (college started :'()
Translation:
"I don't have access to my laptop because the FBI have siezed it as evidence in my islamist terrorism case. I'm currently out on bail using a highly monitored police PC. I am gay." - haider
-
Translation:
"I don't have access to my laptop because the FBI have siezed it as evidence in my islamist terrorism case. I'm currently out on bail using a highly monitored police PC. I am gay." - haider
Translation:
"I'm obsessed with haider, and muslims. I call them muzzy's because it sounds WAYYYYY cuter... LOLZZZ, I have a man crush on haider, but I try not to feel bad about myself so I'm gonna call him gay (LOL, I wish he was!!)"
-
Translation:
"I'm obsessed with haider, and muslims. I call them muzzy's because it sounds WAYYYYY cuter... LOLZZZ, I have a man crush on haider, but I try not to feel bad about myself so I'm gonna call him gay (LOL, I wish he was!!)"
MELTDOWN
You can't combat a "Translation:" reply with another "Translation:" reply.
Check this out: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91602.0
-
Ahem. This is the Learning Thread. The "you are gay"/"meltdown" board is at the bottom of the Forum Page (aka The "V" board).
Carry on ;D
-
Stella, I think you should give the Quran a try.
It's a pretty short book, and fairly easy-read IMO (the English Version ;D)
Always good to have first hand knowledge IMO.
YIP
Zack
You know Zach, we actually do have a Quran here. I tried to read it before but just couldn't give it an objective chance.
Maybe I'll try again (I just found it).
-
You know Zach, we actually do have a Quran here. I tried to read it before but just couldn't give it an objective chance.
Maybe I'll try again (I just found it).
I'm highly critical of Islam, and don't think there is any place for such a religion in a modern society. One of the primary reasons is because I believe in equal rights for women, something that's not taught in Islam.
With that being said, I still think reading the Quran is something everyone should try to do, as to get an understanding for what Muslims base their faith on.
YIP
Zack
-
I'm highly critical of Islam, and don't think there is any place for such a religion in a modern society. One of the primary reasons is because I believe in equal rights for women, something that's not taught in Islam.
With that being said, I still think reading the Quran is something everyone should try to do, as to get an understanding for what Muslims base their faith on.
YIP
Zack
I was going to spend some time in a European country for a while.
I've done Germany, next I WAS going to goto Sweden, but I think I'll fuck that off and goto Switzerland instead :-\
-
I was going to spend some time in a European country for a while.
I've done Germany, next I WAS going to goto Sweden, but I think I'll f**k that off and goto Switzerland instead :-\
Haha.
I'm telling you, once you read the Quran, you'll realise what a terrible religion Islam is.
The fact that the Quran is in every letter the word of God, and not open for interpretations, like eg the Bible, is what makes it such a load of crap.
YIP
Zack
-
I'm highly critical of Islam, and don't think there is any place for such a religion in a modern society. One of the primary reasons is because I believe in equal rights for women, something that's not taught in Islam.
With that being said, I still think reading the Quran is something everyone should try to do, as to get an understanding for what Muslims base their faith on.
YIP
Zack
I wonder if the Christian Bible equates women as full equals.
-
Haha.
I'm telling you, once you read the Quran, you'll realise what a terrible religion Islam is.
The fact that the Quran is in every letter the word of God, and not open for interpretations, like eg the Bible, is what makes it such a load of crap.
YIP
Zack
Huh? Are you a professional clown?
Why do you think I hate the religion of islam?
-
Huh? Are you a professional clown?
Why do you think I hate the religion of islam?
I think the core of this whole matter is that you hate anything that isn't pure English. ;D
-
I wonder if the Christian Bible equates women as full equals.
Not even close.
Thing is, the Bible is open for interpretation, since it's not written by God. It's written by Jon Doe's, regular blokes who are no closer or further away from God than anyone else.
This gives Christians the freedom of pretty much interpreting Christianity into whatever they want, as long as they believe in the fundamental: God as the only God, and Jesus as his son and the Holy Spirit.
All the rest is open for interpretation. Just look at how many Christians thinks the Death Penalty and long prison times are ok, when Jesus is preaching to turn the other cheek.
That's a very good example of how Christians allows themselves to interpret their faith to fit into their lives and values.
YIP
Zack
-
Not even close.
Thing is, the Bible is open for interpretation, since it's not written by God. It's written by Jon Doe's, regular blokes who are no closer or further away from God than anyone else.
This gives Christians the freedom of pretty much interpreting Christianity into whatever they want, as long as they believe in the fundamental: God as the only God, and Jesus as his son and the Holy Spirit.
All the rest is open for interpretation. Just look at how many Christians thinks the Death Penalty and long prison times are ok, when Jesus is preaching to turn the other cheek.
That's a very good example of how Christians allows themselves to interpret their faith to fit into their lives and values.
YIP
Zack
But that's not the Christian contention. They content it was written by God via his inspration.
Was the Quran written by a person also?
-
Quran is the direct word of God.
-
No offense, but what Hedgehog is saying is just plain wrong. The Quran IS open to interpretation, and the fact that it is [believed to be] the direct word of God only means that interpretation is necessary, since it has deeper meaning. A lot of the verses are to be understood within context, since they were revealed over 23 years as Muhammed(pbuh) (or the muslims) faced certain situations.
What he says about the bible is also wrong. Do you not know that there are christians that DON'T believe that Jesus(pbuh) is God, or the son of God? Tell me these differences in opinion don't arise from conflciting interpretations.
-
MELTDOWN
You can't combat a "Translation:" reply with another "Translation:" reply.
Check this out: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91602.0
LOL, you idiot. Where was this little "rule" of yours written?
Next time, remember rule #1: You can't make a [lameass] comeback based on a made up rule.
What remains to be "translated", meaning "interpreted", oh I mean explained is your unusual obsession with "muzzys"
(how cute :-*) and your homosexual man crush on fellow get-biggers.
Have a nice day BIATCH.
-
LOL, you idiot. Where was this little "rule" of yours written?
Next time, remember rule #1: You can't make a [lameass] comeback based on a made up rule.
What remains to be "translated", meaning "interpreted", oh I mean explained is your unusual obsession with "muzzys"
(how cute :-*) and your homosexual man crush on fellow get-biggers.
Have a nice day BIATCH.
Your replies are becoming weaker and weaker :-\
PS. Muhammad was a pedophile.
-
No offense, but what Hedgehog is saying is just plain wrong. The Quran IS open to interpretation, and the fact that it is [believed to be] the direct word of God only means that interpretation is necessary, since it has deeper meaning. A lot of the verses are to be understood within context, since they were revealed over 23 years as Muhammed(pbuh) (or the muslims) faced certain situations.
What he says about the bible is also wrong. Do you not know that there are christians that DON'T believe that Jesus(pbuh) is God, or the son of God? Tell me these differences in opinion don't arise from conflciting interpretations.
Why would a perfect text by God need interpretation?
Look at some of the stuff in the Qu'ran and Hadiths on women and women's rights.
IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.
IV/16: (For Men) If two men among you commit indecency (sodomy) punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning."
2:228, And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them.
It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
3. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father or brother. (TR. P 431 )
4. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
5. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
6. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
8. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428)
9. The marriage of woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)
How could anyone approve of a religion that preaches these kinds of things?
YIP
Zack
-
I'm waiting for Haider to reply:
Haider: "Wait wait!!! You read them TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT!"
Person: "No I didn't"
Haider: "Oh well in that case, Arabic cannot be translated to English and retain the real meaning, you must read it in Arabic. It's meaning is TOTALLY lost in translation! Islam teaches men to treat women with respect equal to that of man!"
Person: "No you're lying on both accounts! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation"
Haider: "Alli uptar PALLY dumpa fally whoppa! Durka Durka! MELTDOWN"
-
I bet you're not man enough to read this Haider/toxic:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/JackMackp3.htm
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/pbs-special.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/levine_truce.htm
-
I'm waiting for Haider to reply:
Haider: "Wait wait!!! You read them TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT!"
Person: "No I didn't"
Haider: "Oh well in that case, Arabic cannot be translated to English and retain the real meaning, you must read it in Arabic. It's meaning is TOTALLY lost in translation! Islam teaches men to treat women with respect equal to that of man!"
Person: "No you're lying on both accounts! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation"
Haider: "Alli uptar PALLY dumpa fally whoppa! Durka Durka! MELTDOWN"
By putting words into haider's mouth, you're effectively voiding the possibilities of having him answer the actual question, but rather defending himself against the insults.
I don't blame him for defending himself either.
I just would like to see his answer/opinion on my question.
YIP
Zack
-
Why would a perfect text by God need interpretation?
Look at some of the stuff in the Qu'ran and Hadiths on women and women's rights.
IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.
IV/16: (For Men) If two men among you commit indecency (sodomy) punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning."
2:228, And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them.
It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
3. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father or brother. (TR. P 431 )
4. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
5. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
6. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
8. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428)
9. The marriage of woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)
How could anyone approve of a religion that preaches these kinds of things?
YIP
Zack
YIKES!
As far as equality between men and women in the Christian Bible:
"[For those who have put their faith in Christ].....There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
....the following scripture regarding equality in marriage is one that people interpret differently...........
Eph 5:22-33: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her .... ..... 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh. ................' .....each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."
The following I found on bible.org:
What is headship?
Maybe we should decide first of all what it is not. Headship is not superiority. Nowhere does the Bible imply that men are superior to women. In fact, it clearly states that men and women are equal in God’s sight. “There is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Two becoming “one flesh” would also seem to indicate equality. God created men and women equal, and women should be treated as equals—not as inferiors. Men who ridicule and belittle women probably do it to reassure their own manhood. If they can convince themselves that all men are superior to all women, then they feel superior to their wives no matter how weak or irresponsible they themselves might be!
Nor does headship consist of domination or dictatorship. The doctrine of headship does not destroy a wife’s personality or will, nor does it reduce her to slave status. Actually it does just the opposite. Jesus Christ is the supreme example of headship, yet as the head of the church He ministers to it. Some men have the false notion that headship means “I’m the boss and you’ll do as I say whether you like it or not. Now get me my slippers.”
Headship is loving leadership. There is a universal need for leadership in every sphere of human experience. We have it in government—local, state, and federal. Our mayor, governor, and president are not necessarily superior to us, but as our duly chosen leaders they have delegated positional authority. We have authority in our schools, on our jobs, and in our churches. We need to have it in our homes, too. The Bible declares, “But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.” Probably the greatest example of headship to which we could point is that of God the Father as Head over God the Son. Christ has been equal with His Father from eternity past, yet He subjected Himself to the authority of the Father. Just as the Father is the Head of the Son and the Son is the Head of man, so man is the head of woman in the marital relationship.
How is this leadership implemented in the Christian home? I believe it is similar to the leadership exercised in any smoothly operating organization. No successful corporation can function properly with two heads. If there is a president and a vice-president, it is generally agreed that the president is the leader. The vice-president may actually be more brilliant than his boss, but the president still carries the greater authority. His status is not that of a dictator, but of a delegated authority. The arrangement will work best if there is a mutual confidence and trust between them, if they look to each other as equals, if each shares and contributes from his own abilities, resources, and experiences, and if they mold policies and make decisions by mutual consent, with both abiding by those decisions after they are made. Behind it all, however, there is the realization that only one of them is actually the leader. In the last analysis it is he who is responsible for all that is done.
-
YIKES!
As far as equality between men and women in the Christian Bible:
"[For those who have put their faith in Christ].....There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
You'll find a lot of stuff from Jesus which could give you a cop out for being a feminist (believing women and men should have equal rights).
In addition, the Bible isn't a really "holy" scripture. You need to interpret it to understand it.
Christianity have lots of cop outs for the modern man and woman. Islam, doesn't.
That's a big difference between the two religions.
YIP
Zack
-
You'll find a lot of stuff from Jesus which could give you a cop out for being a feminist (believing women and men should have equal rights).
In addition, the Bible isn't a really "holy" scripture. You need to interpret it to understand it.
Christianity have lots of cop outs for the modern man and woman. Islam, doesn't.
That's a big difference between the two religions.
YIP
Zack
Do you believe in God Hedge?
If so, do you follow a particular religion?
Don't say buddhism... you lose -1.5Bil man points if you do...
-
Do you believe in God Hedge?
If so, do you follow a particular religion?
Don't say buddhism... you lose -1.5Bil man points if you do...
Well, in that case...
...to you, I shall be known as a buddhist. 8)
YIP
Zack
-
Well, in that case...
...to you, I shall be known as a buddhist. 8)
YIP
Zack
Congradulations! You have less man-points than Boy George!:
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/263463~Boy-George-Posters.jpg)
-
Congradulations! You have less man-points than Boy George!:
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/263463~Boy-George-Posters.jpg)
That's fcuking great mang.
YIP
Zack
-
yikes stella...Haider??
women in my family are treated better than men >:( case in point my sister and all armani wardrobe that daddy bought..that she cnanges every 6 months..while most of my clothes r old navy..yes i'm bitter >:(
-
yikes stella...Haider??
women in my family are treated better than men >:( case in point my sister and all armani wardrobe that daddy bought..that she cnanges every 6 months..while most of my clothes r old navy..yes i'm bitter >:(
Stop with the propoganda. Womens rights in the koran and islamic countries are known to be low compared to the west - FACT.
-
yikes stella...Haider??
women in my family are treated better than men >:( case in point my sister and all armani wardrobe that daddy bought..that she cnanges every 6 months..while most of my clothes r old navy..yes i'm bitter >:(
[/quote
Let me ask you this Toxic:
What would your parents do if your sister married a black woman?
What would they do if YOU married a black man?
And please Nordic, allow TA to respond before commenting.
YIP
Zack
-
Do you believe in God Hedge?
If so, do you follow a particular religion?
Don't say buddhism... you lose -1.5Bil man points if you do...
Nordic, I think Hedge has said before that he would like to believe if he could find something he could accept as true.
I think he's just messing w/you w/the buddhist thing :)
-
What would your parents do if your sister married a black woman?
What would they do if YOU married a black man?
Hedge is this a joke?
Are you asking:
"What would your parents do if you were gay and going out with a black man?" ???
-
Hedge is this a joke?
Are you asking:
"What would your parents do if you were gay and going out with a black man?" ???
I am asking him what his parents would do if he would date a black man, and what they would do if his sister would date a black woman.
What consequences would these actions have for TA and his sister respectively.
YIP
Zack
-
Stop with the propoganda. Womens rights in the koran and islamic countries are known to be low compared to the west - FACT.
now ya telling me how stuff works in my own family..lol...
-
Stop with the propoganda.
need i point out the irony...
-
haider, what are your feelings on what the pope quoted recently? Does it anger you? If so, why? If not, why do you think some Muslims are so angry and care so much what the pope says? Certainly they don't believe that what Catholicism teaches is true so why do they give any credence to what the pope says?
Don't they just think he's deceived? Shouldn't they just roll their eyes or feel sorry for him? I just don't understand the outrage. :-\
-
This thread isnt deserving of a sticky...maybe we can revive it later when we have time to answer the questions.
Anyway..
haider, what are your feelings on what the pope quoted recently? Does it anger you? If so, why?
It doesn't anger so much as it perplexes me as to why he deemed it necessary to quote a medieval emeperor on his views on Islam and Mohammed(pbuh)...I'm not gonna judge him because I dont know the context in which it was quoted, but it still wasn't very smart of him to do so(ofcourse in the case where he really didn't wanna offend muslims). Kill the pope!!!!
If not, why do you think some Muslims are so angry and care so much what the pope says?
Muslims are very sensitive when it comes to religion and it has showed every time some public figure has come out and said soemthing stupid relating to muslim beleifs. What may anger them even more is the fact that a man with so much authority as the pope, whose opinion matters so much in (almost) the entire christian world, publicly put Islam in negative light. A very stupid move on his part, considering the very delicate situation these days.
Certainly they don't believe that what Catholicism teaches is true so why do they give any credence to what the pope says?
Don't they just think he's deceived? Shouldn't they just roll their eyes or feel sorry for him? I just don't understand the outrage. :-\
What I said above. The pope is a very influential public figure, so it is very likely that any misinterpration of his words will cause tremendous outrage...not to say that it justifies the overreaction of the idiots going around burning churches and killing christians. Honestly, I myself am very perplexed with the way some of these so-called "muslims" are behaving. I just dont understand the mentality, and the motivation behind killing innocent people belonging to a certain religion. KILL THE POPE!!
-
Thanks for those answers, haider.
I have a question about the Dome of the Rock Rock. Do muslims actually worship the rock? What is the important significance of the rock?
-
Note haider calling the Pope stupid ::)
First, Muhammad was not just a man claiming that God spoke through him; he was also a political and military leader. Driven out of Mecca and taking the reins of power in Medina, Muhammad and the Muslims spread their faith not just via da`is (missionaries), but by the sword; in fact, Jews in Medina who refused to accept Muhammad’s prophethood (and who, to be accurate, were accused of plotting against King Muhammad) were killed or enslaved. The conquest of Mecca in 630 CE was accomplished at swordpoint, not by persuasion. The creation of a huge Islamic Empire by the first four caliphs, the Umayyads and the Abbasids (between 632 and the end of the first millennium CE) was carried out via conquest—not by handing out brochures. Granted, Jews and Christians within the Muslim-ruled territories from the Pyrenees to the Indus were not all forced to convert—but the relegation to second-class status known as dhimmah led, eventually, to the majority of people in North Africa and the Middle East converting to Islam.
The initial phase of Islamic conquests resulted in about half the territory of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire switching hands. For several centuries the borders stabilized and the Byzantines ruled a state pushed back into Anatolia and the Balkan Peninsula. But in the 14th century CE a new wave of Muslim jihadists, the Ottoman Turks, were again moving on Byzantine lands. This was the situation facing Manuel II, and no doubt his view of Islam as “evil and inhuman” was in no small measure influenced by watching what was left of his empire disintegrating. (Indeed, less than three decades after his death Constantinople would fall to the Ottoman ruler Mehmet II.) One might ask how many Muslims setting fire to Christian churches, or to effigies of the pope, are even aware of this? I suspect that even if they were, it would make no difference.
For, in the view of some Muslims, it is not unreasonable to spread their religion by violence, for two reasons: 1) it is the final revelation of God to humanity and 2) the Qur’an enjoins it. To paraphrase Dr. Henry Jones (Indiana’s father): “goose-stepping morons like yourselves should be reading your holy book instead of burning churches.” If they did, they would discover that:
* Surah Muhammad [47]:3 says “When you meet the unbelievers on the battlefield, strike off their heads….
* Surah Anfal [8]:12 says “I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the tips of their fingers.”
* Surah al-Nisa’[4]:74 says “Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of God….”
* Surah al-Nisa’[4]:56 says “The true believer fights for the cause of God, but the infidel fights for the devil.”
* Surah al-Nisa’[4]:101 says “The unbelievers are your inveterate enemies.”
* Surah al-Ma’idah [5]:51 says “Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends.”
Only in a truly Bizarro world can those passages NOT be an incitement for some to violence, to “evil and inhuman” acts. Are there other passages in the Qur’an mitigating these? Yes.4 But many of these more benevolent passages are also considered by many Muslims to have been abrogated by the more martial ones.
Can you DISPROVE any of this information haider?
-
Thanks for those answers, haider.
I have a question about the Dome of the Rock Rock. Do muslims actually worship the rock? What is the important significance of the rock?
bump for haider's attention :)
-
Sorry about ignoring this thread, I'll get back to you later.
-
Would you guys like to have a learning thread on Islam now in addition to the Judaism thread?
If not, we can always do it later.
J & I don't eat pork, nuff said!!!
-
This is something for people who want to learn about Islam. :)
ISLAM - FACTS ONE MUST KNOW
What is Islam?
Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that Allah revealed through all His Prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events, which have come to he associated with their faith.
Who are the Muslims?
Over one billion people from a vast range of races, nationalities and cultures across the globe - from the southern Philippines to Nigeria - are united by their common Islamic faith. About 18% live in the Arab world; the world's largest Muslim community is Indonesia; substantial parts of Asia and most parts of Africa are Muslim, while significant minorities are to be found in Russia, China, North and South America, and Europe.
What do Muslims believe?
Muslims believe in One, Unique, Incomparable God; in the Angels created by Him; in the Prophets through whom His revelations were brought to mankind; in the Day of Judgement and the individual accountability for actions; in God's complete authority over human destiny and in life after death. Muslims believe in a chain of Prophets starting with Adam and including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jonah, John and Jesus (peace be upon them all). But God's final message to man, a reconfirmation of the eternal message and a summing-up of all that has gone before, was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, (peace be on him), through Archangel Gabriel.
How does someone become a Muslim?
Simply by saying 'there is no deity apart from Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.' By this declaration the believer announces his or her faith in all messengers of Allah, and the scriptures they brought.
What does 'Islam' mean?
The Arabic word 'Islam' simply means 'submission,' and derives from a word meaning 'peace.' In a religious context it means complete submission to the will of Allah. 'Muhammadanism' is thus a misnomer, because it suggests that Muslims worship Muhammad rather than Allah. "Allah" is the Arabic name for God, which is used by Arab Muslims and Christians alike.
Why does Islam often seem strange?
Islam may seem exotic or even extreme in the modern world. Perhaps this is because religion does not dominate everyday life in the West today, whereas Muslims have religion always uppermost in their minds, and make no division between the secular and the sacred. They believe that the Divine Law, the Shari'ah, should be taken very seriously, which is why issues related to religion are still so important.
Do Islam and Christianity have different origins?
No. Together with Judaism, they go back to the Prophet and Patriarch Abraham (peace be on him), and their three Prophets are directly descended from his sons - Muhammad (peace be on him) from the eldest, Ishmael, and Moses and Jesus from Isaac. Abraham established the settlement, which today is the city of Makkah, and built the Ka'bah towards which all Muslims turn when they pray.
What is the Ka'bah?
The Ka'bah is the place of worship which Allah commanded Abraham and Ishmael to build over four thousand years ago. The building was constructed of stone on what many believe was the original site of the sanctuary established by Adam. God commanded Abraham to summon all mankind to visit this place, and when pilgrims go there today, they say 'At Thy service, O Lord,' in response to Abraham's call.
Who is Muhammad?
Muhammad (peace be on him) was born in Makkah Al-Mukarramah in the year 570, at a time when Christianity was not yet fully established in Europe. Since his father died before his birth, and his mother shortly afterwards, he was raised by his uncle from the respected tribe of Quraysh. As he grew up, he became known for his truthfulness, generosity and sincerity, so that he was sought after for his ability to arbitrate in disputes. The historians describe him as calm and meditative.
Muhammad (peace be. on him) was of a deeply religious nature, and had long detested the decadence of his society. It became his habit to meditate from time to time in the Cave of Hira near the summit of Jabal Al-Nur, the 'Mountain of Light' near Makkah.
How did he become a Prophet and a Messenger of God?
At the age of 40, while engaged in meditative retreat, Muhammad (peace be on him) received his first revelation from Allah through the Angel Gabriel. This revelation, which continued for twenty three years, is known as the Qur'an.
As soon as he began to recite the words he heard from Gabriel, and to preach the truth which Allah had revealed to him, he and his small group of followers suffered bitter persecution, which grew so fierce that in the year 622, Allah gave them the command to emigrate. This event, the Hijrah, 'migration,' in which they left Makkah for the city of Madinah some 420 kilometres to the north, marks the beginning of the Muslim calendar.
After several years, the Prophet (peace be on him) died at the age of 63, and within a century of his death, Islam had spread to Spain in the West and as far East as China.
How did the spread of Islam affect the world?
Among the reasons for the rapid and peaceful spread of Islam was the simplicity of its doctrine - Islam calls for faith in only One God worthy of worship. It also repeatedly instructs man to use his powers of intelligence and observation.
Within a few years, great civilizations and universities were flourishing, for according to the Prophet (peace be on him), 'Seeking knowledge is an obligation for every Muslim.' The synthesis of Eastern and Western ideas and of new thought with old, brought about great advances in medicine, mathematics, physics, astronomy, geography, architecture, art, literature, and history. Many crucial systems, such as algebra, the Arabic numerals, and also the concept of the zero (vital to the advancement of mathematics), were transmitted to medieval Europe from Islam. Sophisticated instruments, which were to make possible the European voyages of discovery, were developed, including the astrolabe, the quadrant and good navigational maps.
What is the Qur'an?
The Qur'an is a record of the exact words revealed by Allah through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him). It was memorized by Muhammad (peace be on him) and then dictated to his Companions, and written down by scribes, who crosschecked it during his lifetime. Not one word of its 114 chapters, Surahs, has been changed over the centuries, so that the Qur'an is in every detail the unique and miraculous text, which was revealed to Muhammad (peace be on him) fourteen centuries ago.
What is the Qur'aan about?
The Qur'an, the last revealed Word of God, is the prime source of every Muslim's faith and practice. It deals with all the subjects which concern us as human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship and law, but its basic theme is the relationship between God and His creatures. At the same time, it provides guidelines for a just society, proper human conduct and an equitable economic system.
Are there any other sacred sources?
Yes, the Sunnah, the practice and example of the Prophet (peace be on him), is the second authority for Muslims. A Hadith is a reliably transmitted report of what the Prophet (peace be on him) said, did, or approved. Belief in the Sunnah is part of the Islamic faith.
Examples of the Prophet's sayings:
The Prophet (peace be on him) said:
'Allah has no mercy on one who has no mercy for others.'
'None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.'
'He who eats his fill while his neighbour goes without food, is not a believer.'
'The truthful and honest businessman will be in the company of the Prophets, the truthful people, and the martyrs on the Day of Judgement.'
'Powerful is not he who knocks the other down, indeed powerful is he who controls himself in a fit of anger.'
'Allah does not judge according to your bodies and appearances, but He scans your hearts and looks into your deeds.'
'A man walking along a path felt very thirsty. Reaching a well he descended into it, drinking his fill and came up. Then he saw a dog with its tongue hanging out, trying to lick up mud and quench its thirst. The man saw that the dog was feeling the same thirst as he had felt so he went down into the well again and filled his shoe with water and gave the dog a drink. Allah forgave his sins for this action.'
The Prophet (peace be on him) was asked: 'Messenger of Allah, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?' He said: 'There is a reward for kindness to every living thing.'
(From the Hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi and Bayhaqi.)
I was born a Muslim, through the grace of ALLAH, and I shall die a Muslim, though the grace of Allah.
Was-salaam.
-
Islam spread through peaceful means? Lie.
Nice propoganda!
Notice the lack of information on his child bride that he molested. How about muhammads militancy, murderous expaditions and polygamy?
How about the supression of women and the almost entire absense of convicting men of rape in islamic countries?