Learning Thread *ISLAM*

[Butterbean]

Would you guys like to have a learning thread on Islam now in addition to the Judaism thread?

If not, we can always do it later.

[ToxicAvenger]

good idea...haider??

PS stella i PMed ya the funny  eddie izzard standup...

[Camel Jockey]

Nope.

[ToxicAvenger]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2365081171838960665&q=islam


i'm posting thie without having watched it first..so as to remove personal bias...

[haider]

errr..right now in im georgia visting my bro's graduation who's in the Army, so I wont really have the time for the next week or so, and then I gota move back in the dorms and what not. And lets not forget I'm really not that knowledgeable and dont really have the patience to put up with some of these dudes (manni, rapture, royalty, etc.  who have zero knowledge on the subject but 100% hatred against muslims). If its simple matters, simple questions, and NOT copy pastes from anti-islamic websties then I may be able to answer to the best of my abilities.

[Nordic Superman]

If its simple matters, simple questions, and NOT copy pastes from anti-islamic websties then I may be able to answer to the best of my abilities.

Translation:
"Yes I know and accept Islam is NOT a religion of peace, but I cannot advertise this fact because it is every muslims duty to convert and to not reveal the truth until conversion is complete. The arguements from anti-islamic are too strong (because they are factual) and I can not combat them because they reveal the truth about Islam and I would only be lying..."

[Hedgehog]

I don't understand why some of you people want to hold haider more accountable for Islam than you are holding every other church going Christian accountable for Christianity.

Why would haider know a whole lot on Islam?

You honestly think that the average Christian is scholared on Christianity?


No offence haider, but you seem like your average bloke when it comes to religion.

YIP
Zack

[haider]

I don't understand why some of you people want to hold haider more accountable for Islam than you are holding every other church going Christian accountable for Christianity.

Why would haider know a whole lot on Islam?

You honestly think that the average Christian is scholared on Christianity?


No offence haider, but you seem like your average bloke when it comes to religion.

YIP
Zack

If u go back and read my post, u will find my view on this is similar. Being one of the *very* few muslims here, and being more outspoken abt my faith than the other(CJ doesnt like Islam, toxy is atheist, and Ironneck loves teh swine), I can understand why they would call on me to answer questions.
 There was a time though when I was heavily invovled in Islamic discussion and spent much of my time reading Islamic literature, but the problem is.....that was some time ago... I'm not a good muslim 

[haider]

Translation:
"Yes I know and accept Islam is NOT a religion of peace, but I cannot advertise this fact because it is every muslims duty to convert and to not reveal the truth until conversion is complete. The arguements from anti-islamic are too strong (because they are factual) and I can not combat them because they reveal the truth about Islam and I would only be lying..."

You've got owned on this issue before, your ignorance being exposed multiple times n all...so STHU

[Nordic Superman]

You've got owned on this issue before, your ignorance being exposed multiple times n all...so STHU

BS. You know I'm right.

Your only arguement is "interpretation" and "out of context".

Read the hadiths about Muhammad and his men initiating attacks on jews, killing the men with pubic hair and raping the women.

Go on, tell me I am lying.

[Tyrone Power]

BS. You know I'm right.

Your only arguement is "interpretation" and "out of context".

Read the hadiths about Muhammad and his men initiating attacks on jews, killing the men with pubic hair and raping the women.

Go on, tell me I am lying.

Which hadiths are you refering to?

[Nordic Superman]

Try these:

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38

This one describes muhammad and his men, an unprovoked attack on a Jewish settlement killing ~900 men. Those who had not yet started puberty were spared. It has narrations from one of the Jewish boys explaining what happened. The women/kids were sold as slaves.

Also in Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38 you will find a passage of a blind man who killed his wife and his own unborn child because she protested muhammads prophethood and slandered him. Apparently this is justifyable as muhammad accepted that justice had been surved.

In Sahih Muslim Book 8 Aisha narrates how she was married at 6. Marriage consummated when she was 9.

More on the subject on Aishas age in Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62.

[haider]

I wont go through the whole thing ANOTHER time, so let me just find the old thread where your ass got owned. But I might consider playing nice another time, as much of a cynic as I am, like I did for the first 5 posts in the thread I'm going to recall; hoping that you can "debate" without spewing your bullshit anti-Islamic hate mongeringand act like a normal human being. hahahahahah, epic delusions "haidar".

[Nordic Superman]

hoping that you can "debate" without spewing your bullshit anti-Islamic hate mongeringand act

Thats' your only arguement EVER tho...

Falsify my above points instead of feeling like the victim all the time (typical muzzie tactics).

Muhammad was a disgrace, and I think the realisation is setting in for you.

[Tyrone Power]

Try these:

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38

This one describes muhammad and his men, an unprovoked attack on a Jewish settlement killing ~900 men. Those who had not yet started puberty were spared. It has narrations from one of the Jewish boys explaining what happened. The women/kids were sold as slaves.

I can't find this text anywhere in the Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38. Do you have the actuall text?

Also in Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38 you will find a passage of a blind man who killed his wife and his own unborn child because she protested muhammads prophethood and slandered him. Apparently this is justifyable as muhammad accepted that justice had been surved.

Book 38, Number 4348:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

How can Haider defend this?

In Sahih Muslim Book 8 Aisha narrates how she was married at 6. Marriage consummated when she was 9.

More on the subject on Aishas age in Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62.

The age Aisha's was married is a big controversy in Islam. The texts seem to contract themselves in the age she was married. Some imply 9 and others imply much much later.

For instance her supposed age was written down during a time when there was a big upheaval in Islam and the predecessor was Mohammed was unknown. The could of lied about her age and made her seem younger so she couldn't be considered a descendent of Mohammeds cousin ibn Abi and thus the predecessor of prophet of Islam. They didn't want a female prophet.

She was said to of joined Mohammed in the Battle of Badr. No one below 15 was allowed to join in raids. The raid was in 624 AD and she would of had to of been above 15, Meaning she had to of been atleast 13 during the marriage.

In the Sirat Rashul Allah it records Aisha converting to Islam around 610 AD. Meaning she would of had to of been able to atleast talk and walk to convert, meaning at minimum she would of been atleast 15 at 622 AD.



That is the best defense that can be given for that marriage.

Other less credible defenses might be..

1.Mohammed probably didn't have sex with her until she was much older. Or possibly never.

2.During the time of Mohammed many young girls were married at young ages all around the world including Britain where young girls were often married as young as 8 or 9.



I doubt you'll get a better defense from haider.

[Nordic Superman]

I can't find this text anywhere in the Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38. Do you have the actuall text?

If you can't find it online i'd have to scan and OCR it. I'll try finding a online reference later.

[haider]

Thats' your only arguement EVER tho...

Falsify my above points instead of feeling like the victim all the time (typical muzzie tactics).

Muhammad was a disgrace, and I think the realisation is setting in for you.

The point here is simple:
You have no clue about Islam.

But you pretend to do so by visiting and thereafter quoting antiIslamic websites.

Therefore, you have no knowledge of your own, so clearly you are NOT looking at this with an open, and OBJECTIVE mind.

So all you are doing is spewing anti-islamic bullshit from websites. You truly are a hate mongerer and nothing else.

For example, I took up the challenge to explain the Quranic verses u asked me to explain, and so I did. I even explained to you the meaning of the arabic words used and the context it was used in. All you did was brush it off as my own interpretation, and declared your own interpretation as the true one [LOL]. O' objective one, who are YOU to "interpret" a verse, when clearly:
#1: you have no background in Islamic knowledge.
#2: you have a strong bias against muslims
#3: you present a singled out verse and dont even know the context, much less post it for us [LOL, fucking idiot]
#4: you are only seeing a SIMPLE english translation; meaning what you read and what u quote hasn't been translated appropriattely, hence it is SIMPLE, meaning no so-called interprretation can be dervioed from it you numbnut.

Lastly, f**k you for wasting my time 

[haider]

Tyrone, thank you for your response. If that wasnt a copy paste, you clearly are more knowledgebale about the ahadith than I am. I have read the explanation that you have presented before(funny how manni never came across it though its widely available on google where he gets the rest of his anti islamic bullshit), and you put it way better than I could have, so I thank you for that.

[haider]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66429.25

Here's manni pretending he has a clue abt anything, and gets owned by 3 different people in the same thread. (this is the thread I was referring to earlier in this thread)

[Tyrone Power]

#1: you have no background in Islamic knowledge.

Ad Hominem

#2: you have a strong bias against muslims

Ad Hominem

#3: you present a singled out verse and dont even know the context, much less post it for us [LOL, fucking idiot]

Usually the hadiths are in little stories where the entire context is presented. As in the hadith I posted about the blind man killing his wife and Mohammed accepting it.

#4: you are only seeing a SIMPLE english translation; meaning what you read and what u quote hasn't been translated appropriattely, hence it is SIMPLE, meaning no so-called interprretation can be dervioed from it you numbnut.

Do you speak arabic?

Can you translate them "correctly" for us?


I would believe the muslim arabic speaking translators would translate it better than you ever could.

[Nordic Superman]

Haider,

The point about Arabic to English translation is a fallacy.

#2: you have a strong bias against muslims

Because of my research into the koran.

But you are unable to accept this. Everything in the koran is morally justified to you.

[haider]

let me get home bitches
 

[Nordic Superman]

let me get home bitches
 

No ones stopping you, you live in a FREE country!

Unlike many middle east-islamic countries

[haider]

Ad Hominem

Nope. That is a fact. Manni has absolutely no clue abt Islam. Googling a few pages of anti islamic websites does NOT count for anything except that it shows his BIAS...which was my second point.

Ad Hominem

As mentioned above, this is not adhominem, it is a fact. Manni wants all muslims killed. The point here is that there is a LACK of objectivity, and the only thing fueling his arguments his is fear and bias towards muslims.

Usually the hadiths are in little stories where the entire context is presented. As in the hadith I posted about the blind man killing his wife and Mohammed accepting it.

Do you speak arabic?

Can you translate them "correctly" for us?

Yes, I wasn't referring to the ahadith he posted. I was just mentioning an old argument we had earlier in the year to show why it is useless to debate him on this issue. All he does is copy paste anti islamic propagnda, and if I can recall correctly u grew sick and tired of copy pastes from christian sites too. So maybe you can feel where I'm coming from. It is near impossible to have a rational argument with this manni character.

[haider]

But you are unable to accept this. Everything in the koran is morally justified to you.

That right there IS ad hominem. You have no intelligent argument to Offer. Must I tell u again that I don't wanna go through this whole thing again?

 

Haider,

The point about Arabic to English translation is a fallacy.

It applies 100% to the quranic verses u posted earlier in the year. And what did u do when u were cornered abt your ignorance and complete lack of anything intelligent to offer? You jumped around and deviated the argument to unrelated anti islamic copy pastes.

Because of my research into the koran.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, I hope for your own sake that you are kidding.