DEBATE - Evidence for/against a Deity or God

[Necrosis]

HAIDER. here is a good read on my beleifs, or a part of my belief. there is a video also. great book.


http://www.thegodtheory.com/

[haider]

HAIDER. here is a good read on my beleifs, or a part of my belief. there is a video also. great book.


http://www.thegodtheory.com/

Thanks!
I ordered it through ohiolink so I should get it in a week's time. Should be a fun reading. I plan on reading Dawkins's God delusion as well.

[Camel Jockey]

God is centered around simple beliefs and speculation. There's no such thing as evidence for a god or anything supernatural.

You say I can't disprove it, but honestly you can't prove it. And proving it doesn't mean making shit up or assumptions.

[Dos Equis]

God is centered around simple beliefs and speculation. There's no such thing as evidence for a god or anything supernatural.

You say I can't disprove it, but honestly you can't prove it. And proving it doesn't mean making shit up or assumptions.

Not really Camel.  There are many promises in the Bible that I have tested.  One is tithing.  It works.  There is a ton of advice in my favorite book of the Bible (Proverbs).  And I have seen way too many prayers answered with too many coincidences to not believe that something much greater than me is at work. 

[tu_holmes]

Not really Camel.  There are many promises in the Bible that I have tested.  One is tithing.  It works.  There is a ton of advice in my favorite book of the Bible (Proverbs).  And I have seen way too many prayers answered with too many coincidences to not believe that something much greater than me is at work. 

That is interesting... So God will answer prayers for money?

I've seen too many prayers go unanswered in my life... maybe they didn't pay enough?

[Dos Equis]

That is interesting... So God will answer prayers for money?

I've seen too many prayers go unanswered in my life... maybe they didn't pay enough?

Tu you always get an answer.  It's not always the answer you like.  Sometimes the answer is "yes," sometimes "no," sometimes "wait."  I often get "wait," and I hate that answer.   

Re tithing:  it isn't about "prayers for money."  It is about God promising that if you return the "first fruits" of your increase to Him, He will bless you so much so there won't be "room enough to receive it."  I think this has to be taken together with other promises, guidelines, etc.  Like the verse in Proverbs that says wealth gained by dishonesty will be diminished.  So, for example, I doubt a drug dealer gets a ROI from his tithe money.     But I have experienced numerous financial blessing that I attribute directly to returning tithe.  I've heard countless stories from others too.  You should try it. 

[tu_holmes]

Tu you always get an answer.  It's not always the answer you like.  Sometimes the answer is "yes," sometimes "no," sometimes "wait."  I often get "wait," and I hate that answer.   

Re tithing:  it isn't about "prayers for money."  It is about God promising that if you return the "first fruits" of your increase to Him, He will bless you so much so there won't be "room enough to receive it."  I think this has to be taken together with other promises, guidelines, etc.  Like the verse in Proverbs that says wealth gained by dishonesty will be diminished.  So, for example, I doubt a drug dealer gets a ROI from his tithe money.     But I have experienced numerous financial blessing that I attribute directly to returning tithe.  I've heard countless stories from others too.  You should try it. 

Nah... Thanks though... I do ok without it.

[_Morrison_]

True Adonis as per the debate i will refrain from the personal attacks if you do.

ill let you start. what arguments are there against the exsistence of a god, not a christian god, not a islamic god. a deity, a cosmic intelligence. why is secular humanism correct.

Personally, I like to think that there may be a god out there, but I try not to dwell on it because there really is no proof out there.  My philosophy on God is that if there is one then great, and if not I can handle that, too.  I think that we focus way too much on who is right about the subject and who is a brainwashed douche bag, but I'm just going to go on hoping that there is one and try to be a good person until I die because only then will I truly know.

[Necrosis]

Thanks!
I ordered it through ohiolink so I should get it in a week's time. Should be a fun reading. I plan on reading Dawkins's God delusion as well.

HAIDER!! buy wonder of the world by abraham varghese. the best book ever written on god and science, and philosophy.

it converted antony flew the worlds leading atheist, its really an amazing book. that and the god theory are very good.

let me know what you think of the god delusion, and any arguments you like.

[Necrosis]

God is centered around simple beliefs and speculation. There's no such thing as evidence for a god or anything supernatural.

You say I can't disprove it, but honestly you can't prove it. And proving it doesn't mean making shit up or assumptions.

we will never truly know how everything got here or how or why. even if science did explain every little detail it wouldn't be enough, you would still have to ask the ultimate question, why is there anything at all?

also in most of the theories, the exsistence of the universe is describe by something without, which opens up many paradoxes we cant access the answer to, by virtue of being within the universe. string theory, inflation, loop quantum gravity,GUT etc could all be right. but life is a huge fucking mystery and im just trying to figure it out best i can. i see it as central in importance in life. or you could not worry about it, but then agian, maybe thats missing the point.

[Camel Jockey]

Not really Camel.  There are many promises in the Bible that I have tested.  One is tithing.  It works.  There is a ton of advice in my favorite book of the Bible (Proverbs).  And I have seen way too many prayers answered with too many coincidences to not believe that something much greater than me is at work. 

Oh brother... 

You want to bring forth credible evidence and prayers don't cut it.

[Dos Equis]

Oh brother... 

You want to bring forth credible evidence and prayers don't cut it.

I just did.  My story.  If you're asking for a video, it doesn't exist.  I'm talking about my personal experiences.  They have convinced me.

[Colossus_500]

That is interesting... So God will answer prayers for money?

I've seen too many prayers go unanswered in my life... maybe they didn't pay enough?

If it is in God's will, yes.

[tu_holmes]

If it is in God's will, yes.

So it's God's will plus money... I see.

[Necrosis]

So it's God's will plus money... I see.

no matter how much you pray god wont answer them. your life is decided by you, seperation between us and god is needed.

[haider]

HAIDER!! buy wonder of the world by abraham varghese. the best book ever written on god and science, and philosophy.

it converted antony flew the worlds leading atheist, its really an amazing book. that and the god theory are very good.

let me know what you think of the god delusion, and any arguments you like.

Thanks for the info, I'm currently reading through God theory every cahnce I get with the tight school schedule. Right now much of it seems pretty abstract (aka pulling things out os his arse ) but it makes sense and I'm enjoying reaidng it quite a bit. Prolly by next friday I should be done with the book, but I suspect I'll be done earlier than that (Once I start reaidng it I have to stop myself so I can do homework instead, lol).

[Camel Jockey]

we will never truly know how everything got here or how or why. even if science did explain every little detail it wouldn't be enough, you would still have to ask the ultimate question, why is there anything at all?

also in most of the theories, the exsistence of the universe is describe by something without, which opens up many paradoxes we cant access the answer to, by virtue of being within the universe. string theory, inflation, loop quantum gravity,GUT etc could all be right. but life is a huge fucking mystery and im just trying to figure it out best i can. i see it as central in importance in life. or you could not worry about it, but then agian, maybe thats missing the point.

Something without? In any place where we can't seem to fill with science, instead we fill with a god.  This arguement doesn't work as then you would have to tell me who created god and who created the creator of god. Just because we don't understand certain things doesn't mean we have to fill the vacancies with the idea of some supernatural being.

[Necrosis]

Something without? In any place where we can't seem to fill with science, instead we fill with a god.  This arguement doesn't work as then you would have to tell me who created god and who created the creator of god. Just because we don't understand certain things doesn't mean we have to fill the vacancies with the idea of some supernatural being.

i dont think you understand what i wrote. something without means, something not within or something other then the unverse to describe the existence of the universe. im not getting back in to the reasons i beleive it to be god. but, due to the theory of relativity, you dont have access from this universe to others, nor to anything "outside" so this is a gap that will always remain void. we wont know why, or how to an extent. quantum gravity, when figured out may change this.

the who created god argument has already been answered by me.

god needs no creator, nor does a universe without the dimension of time as we know it. before only exists because time does, we know time had a beginning, hence there never was a before the big bang. its impossible to grasp and full of paradoxes but it is proven by science, and logic.

so if you assume the big bang was the start, its out of nothing, or it always existed in the conditions it had. and then for no reason the conditions changed. the only thing that can change conditions when they are set or remain the same is intelligence.

[jerseyhurricane]

God will give you what you need...not always what you want.

[Oldschool Flip]

God will give you what you need...not always what you want.

If that's true than all the poor Christians in the world wouldn't starve. Some to death. 

[Necrosis]

If that's true than all the poor Christians in the world wouldn't starve. Some to death. 

exactly, this argument has proven that god does not give you what you want.

[Oldschool Flip]

Or what you need for that matter...



What does God give you?

To people that believe in God, a HOPE that there is something other than the miserable lives that they are living today. Of course if they had a great job, home and family, with plenty of time to spend with them and still enough time to do the activities they enjoyed, they would still feel that it's NOTHING till they share the "afterlife" with God and Jesus. Hopefully the people they hate aren't there too!

[Necrosis]

Or what you need for that matter...



What does God give you?

nothing, i am god literally.


he doesnt have any concern with me, in so far as he cares about himself.

im not a theologian per se...

i beleive god exists to experience himself and he is the only thing that exists, including us.

[Wikidudeman]

To people that believe in God, a HOPE that there is something other than the miserable lives that they are living today. Of course if they had a great job, home and family, with plenty of time to spend with them and still enough time to do the activities they enjoyed, they would still feel that it's NOTHING till they share the "afterlife" with God and Jesus. Hopefully the people they hate aren't there too!

If God doesn't exist then God isn't giving them that hope. It's simply their belief that is giving them hope.

[Oldschool Flip]

If God doesn't exist then God isn't giving them that hope. It's simply their belief that is giving them hope.

I agree. But just like that person who hopes to have it all, they keep playing that lottery.