Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral

[columbusdude82]

I bet all those young gay men and women serving in Iraq under "Don't ask, don't tell" are feeling really good about General Pace right now...

[militarymuscle69]

I bet all those young gay men and women serving in Iraq under "Don't ask, don't tell" are feeling really good about General Pace right now...

Who cares how they feel? They knew when they joined the military how everyone felt about them and that they wouldn't be able to be open about it. Why is the General, who represents 99% of the military the one who is wrong? You political correct libs will ruin this country.

[Tre]

We are the best military in the world because we hold our service members to the highest moral standards.

Ok, thanks for the Laugh Factory audition piece.  

[Tre]

You political correct libs will ruin this country.

They can't.

You militaridiots already have. 

[militarymuscle69]

Ok, thanks for the Laugh Factory audition piece.  

Tre, you are an idiot, but you are welcome. I gladly defend your freedom to be a jackass.

[columbusdude82]

Who cares how they feel? They knew when they joined the military how everyone felt about them and that they wouldn't be able to be open about it. Why is the General, who represents 99% of the military the one who is wrong? You political correct libs will ruin this country.

I am no "politically correct lib"... I'm a red-state (Ohio) kid who thinks Ronald Reagan is the greatest president of the twentieth century... Now that that's out of the way, I will address the rest of your point.

1. Since when are army personnel allowed to express personal opinion like that? I thought civilians were entitled to opinion, and military officials were supposed to shut up and execute orders from their civilian overlords.

2. What if the guys in some unit were racists and didn't want any negroes among them. Would you blame the black guy for joining the army, because "They knew when they joined the military how everyone felt about them"?

3. I am sure we have heroes out there in Iraq and Afghanistan, young men and women bravely serving this country, risking life and limb, who just happen to be gay. They didn't need this punch in the face from Pace. He just came out of nowhere giving out his personal opinion, for no good reason at all.

[Dos Equis]

What if a male homosexual wants to wear a dress in the military? 

[OzmO]

What if a male homosexual wants to wear a dress in the military? 

Well, what do you think England does?  they have strict regulations. 

[OzmO]

We are the best military in the world because we hold our service members to the highest moral standards.

Now you are talking out your ass.

We are the best because we are the best trained and equipped professional army in the world.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Who cares how they feel? They knew when they joined the military how everyone felt about them and that they wouldn't be able to be open about it. Why is the General, who represents 99% of the military the one who is wrong? You political correct libs will ruin this country.

Instead of "libs" could you use the term "commie pinko" please? I find the latter much funnier.

Thanks.

[Al-Gebra]

Well, what do you think England does?  they have strict regulations. 

england shouldn't count . . . their public school system has made them have a rather unique view on the subject.

[OzmO]

england shouldn't count . . . their public school system has made them have a rather unique view on the subject.

Israel, France too?  Who cares what the system is?  Point is it works, 


Don;t get me wrong,  i'm not suggesting we change the military immediately  i'm just making the point that the argument against gays in te military because it would have adverse affects in combat or otherwise is false based on the list of other countries doing it.

[Al-Gebra]

Israel, France too?  Who cares what the system is?  Point is it works, 


Don;t get me wrong,  i'm not suggesting we change the military immediately  i'm just making the point that the argument against gays in te military because it would have adverse affects in combat or otherwise is false based on the list of other countries doing it.

I don't know about the French, but I know that i would rather be openly gay in our army than in the Israeli army.

It's not false . . . until the men could trust each other, it would have an adverse impact on discipline.  you can't legislate trust. 

[OzmO]

I don't know about the French, but I know that i would rather be openly gay in our army than in the Israeli army.

It's not false . . . until the men could trust each other, it would have an adverse impact on discipline.  you can't legislate trust. 

I don;t disagree, this just shows us how far we are behind when it comes to understanding homosexuals as we are quick to put major false stereo types and labels on them.  So for America, as advanced as we are in some areas, we are still in the cave man age in others.

But the functioning of these millitaries proves it is false.

[ribonucleic]

What if the guys in some unit were racists and didn't want any negroes among them. Would you blame the black guy for joining the army, because "They knew when they joined the military how everyone felt about them"?

Why yes, I believe he would. 

[Al-Gebra]

I don;t disagree, this just shows us how far we are behind when it comes to understanding homosexuals as we are quick to put major false stereo types and labels on them.  So for America, as advanced as we are in some areas, we are still in the cave man age in others.

But the functioning of these millitaries proves it is false.

you don't have to (nor can you) base your argmt on the functioning of their militaries, as there is no evidence provided in this thread that the policies are working (or not working).

If you're saying we need to change our attitudes toward homosexuals, i agree with you.

it's possible to find a less delicate place to begin integration . . . like in sports leagues perhaps? 

[Deedee]

What about the Sacred Band of Thebes?  The ancient Greeks apparently thought there was nothing wrong with homosexuality in the military.

And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger? [2]

[Al-Gebra]

What about the Sacred Band of Thebes?  The ancient Greeks apparently thought there was nothing wrong with homosexuality in the military.

And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger? [2]

I believe that most of our boys and girls hail from the Midwest and the South, not Ancient Greece.

[ieffinhatecardio]

What about the Sacred Band of Thebes?  The ancient Greeks apparently thought there was nothing wrong with homosexuality in the military.

And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger? [2]

Did you already know about the Sacred Band of Thebes or did you do a little research on homosexuality and the military? Either way very interesting, I'm not sure it really applies to modern day soldiers and military brass but interesting all the same.

[militarymuscle69]

I don;t disagree, this just shows us how far we are behind when it comes to understanding homosexuals as we are quick to put major false stereo types and labels on them.  So for America, as advanced as we are in some areas, we are still in the cave man age in others.

But the functioning of these millitaries proves it is false.

It does not, those militaries can't hold a candle to ours and we are the way we are because of our moral standards. Period. You have high morals in the military, follow orders and execute the mission.

[ribonucleic]

It does not, those militaries can't hold a candle to ours and we are the way we are because of our moral standards.

"Two other soldiers were laughing and kicking the heads of the decapitated Iraqis. It was clearly a moment of amusement for them. This was their twisted game of soccer."

The Deserter's Tale: The Story of a Ordinary Soldier Who Walked Away from the War in Iraq, by Joshua Key -  p. 105

[Deedee]

It does not, those militaries can't hold a candle to ours and we are the way we are because of our moral standards. Period. You have high morals in the military, follow orders and execute the mission.

What about this then?

The private war of women soldiers

Many female soldiers say they are sexually assaulted by their male comrades and can't trust the military to protect them. "The knife wasn't for the Iraqis," says one woman. "It was for the guys on my own side."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/03/07/women_in_military/

[OzmO]

It does not, those militaries can't hold a candle to ours and we are the way we are because of our moral standards. Period. You have high morals in the military, follow orders and execute the mission.

Being Gay or not has nothing to do with following orders.

Training and character do. 

A person's character in regards to following orders has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

The US Military is the best trained and equipped military in the planet right now.

[militarymuscle69]

What about this then?

The private war of women soldiers

Many female soldiers say they are sexually assaulted by their male comrades and can't trust the military to protect them. "The knife wasn't for the Iraqis," says one woman. "It was for the guys on my own side."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/03/07/women_in_military/

Exactly Dedee, like all the other skim readers in here you have obviously missed the 100 times I also said that the female posing in Playboy does as much harm to the mission effectiveness as open gays would. Women are already in the minority and risk being molested when they are deployed with 1,000 men for 12 months. You pose in playboy you just made yourself a target for harrasment, as sad as that might be.

[militarymuscle69]

Being Gay or not has nothing to do with following orders.

Training and character do. 

A person's character in regards to following orders has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

The US Military is the best trained and equipped military in the planet right now.

see my new post please in 15 minutes