Author Topic: gh15 tip of the week  (Read 50152 times)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #75 on: April 15, 2007, 03:42:55 PM »
AAAaaaahhhh, that's not necessarly true, too much for a prolonged time will counter and have the opposite effect, since you claim to be an "expert" I'll let you figure out why this happends.
Why don't you explain why it's going to have "the opposite effect". As has been stated ephedrine actually works better over time. Studies have been carried out for something like 50 weeks without a decrease in the thermogenic effect.

G

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2007, 03:48:42 PM »
Why don't you explain why it's going to have "the opposite effect". As has been stated ephedrine actually works better over time. Studies have been carried out for something like 50 weeks without a decrease in the thermogenic effect.

 I don't know what studies show but i know from experience that just like any other drug it becomes less effective to longer i use it.

SWOLETRAIN

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2007, 03:56:13 PM »
i have done 16 weeks on ECA and it has never lost its effectivness. But it did take its toll on my metabolism, whereas it was noticably slower for about a month after my ECA use.
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2007, 04:12:28 PM »
I don't know what studies show but i know from experience that just like any other drug it becomes less effective to longer i use it.
Well, the studies can be found on pubmed of course, too lazy to go find them right now. How do you know it lost effectiveness though? Like noted in the studies, and like anyone who has used the stack knows, the sides of excess stimulation lessen over time. But just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean it's not "working" anymore.

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2007, 04:12:59 PM »
I don't know what studies show but i know from experience that just like any other drug it becomes less effective to longer i use it.

Completely incorrect.

For our (fat loss) purpose, ephedrine becomes more effective over time.

What you are noting is the "rush" or stimulant feeling you get from taking the ephedrine. Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean it's not working ;)

pumpster

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2007, 04:17:56 PM »
Completely incorrect.

For our (fat loss) purpose, ephedrine becomes more effective over time.

What you are noting is the "rush" or stimulant feeling you get from taking the ephedrine. Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean it's not working ;)

What do you think of once-daily eph + caffeine prior to the workout, or is eph needed thrice daily for metabolic purposes? 3 times a day eph seems intense, could interfere with sleep. Maybe i'll just go with the caffeine pills for enegy, assuming that's a good portion of the equation, unless once a day eph would help with the caffeine prior to workout.

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2007, 04:33:02 PM »
What do you think of once-daily eph + caffeine prior to the workout, or is eph needed thrice daily for metabolic purposes? 3 times a day eph seems intense, could interfere with sleep. Maybe i'll just go with the caffeine pills for enegy, assuming that's a good portion of the equation, unless once a day eph would help with the caffeine prior to workout.

I will give you my honest opinion on using ephedrine and caffeine pre-workout. I did not like it, especially when training legs. As you already probably know, after an intense set, you heart is normally beating wildly, now on ephedrine/caffeine it's about 10x that. Not that it was dangerous or anything, but I simply did not like the feeling.

What I much preferred was to take my ephedrine/caffeine when I wake up, and then once at lunch, this was usually about 3 hours before my workout (remember, ephedrine has a half life of 3-4 hours). This still gave me good energy for the workout, but I wasn't over-stimulated. It's a personal preference though....you should try it and find out yourself.

As for taking it 3 times per day, I did that normally. After a while you become used to the stimulatory effects and insomnia generally is not an issue. It may only be an issue the first week or so you use the stack.

the Pure Majestic

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2007, 04:34:26 PM »
 ;)



Second, the downregulation of adrenergic receptors has nothing to do with PANS stimulation, adrenergic receptors are sympathetic!!!  Parasympathetic are M receptors, completely different ;D



HAHAHAHA...
Let me guess, freshman physiology?  Or maybe you're at a community college and it is a combo A&P class! LOL

If you don't think that the body increases parasympathetic stimulation in response to excessive sympathetic nervous system stimulation from an exogenous source, then I have no business debating with you.  

HINT:  You won't find it in your 100 level book.  Ask an upperclassman. LOL!

The Squadfather

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2007, 04:35:05 PM »
I will give you my honest opinion on using ephedrine and caffeine pre-workout. I did not like it, especially when training legs. As you already probably know, after an intense set, you heart is normally beating wildly, now on ephedrine/caffeine it's about 10x that. Not that it was dangerous or anything, but I simply did not like the feeling.

What I much preferred was to take my ephedrine/caffeine when I wake up, and then once at lunch, this was usually about 3 hours before my workout (remember, ephedrine has a half life of 3-4 hours). This still gave me good energy for the workout, but I wasn't over-stimulated. It's a personal preference though....you should try it and find out yourself.

As for taking it 3 times per day, I did that normally. After a while you become used to the stimulatory effects and insomnia generally is not an issue. It may only be an issue the first week or so you use the stack.
did it affect your sleep at all?

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2007, 04:36:39 PM »
did it affect your sleep at all?

Nope. Sometimes I would actually take the stack and then fall/go to asleep  :o

MrC

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2007, 04:37:26 PM »
ephedrine is not available in europe..romania here...i need oppinions on regenon...dosage wise plus ness and aspirine ( buffered ) 3 times a day.

Then why do i have 1000 5mg tabs here in front of me??

CQ

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2007, 04:38:51 PM »
did it affect your sleep at all?

It affects mine like mad, hence my posting spree lately...hehe. It keeps me up to all hours, it's ridiculous.

The Squadfather

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2007, 04:41:14 PM »
It affects mine like mad, hence my posting spree lately...hehe. It keeps me up to all hours, it's ridiculous.
yeah me too, that's part of the reason why i stopped taking it years ago, my problem was that i would take it before working out and i think that the stimulant combined with the increased HR from the training was too much for me even if i took it before noon, i just drink a cup of Starbucks regular coffee before training and it works fine and i have no problems from it.

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2007, 04:42:20 PM »
It affects mine like mad, hence my posting spree lately...hehe. It keeps me up to all hours, it's ridiculous.

Further proof that you have to try it out and see what effects the drugs have on you.

Oh, and don't ever use more than 25mg of ephedrine in a 3-4 hour time period. Not only is taking more no more effective for fat burning and lean mass preservation, but it can also lead to a physiological addiction where one needs more and more to get that "high" feeling.

Brutal_1

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2007, 04:43:49 PM »

HAHAHAHA...
Let me guess, freshman physiology?  Or maybe you're at a community college and it is a combo A&P class! LOL

If you don't think that the body increases parasympathetic stimulation in response to excessive sympathetic nervous system stimulation from an exogenous source, then I have no business debating with you.  

HINT:  You won't find it in your 100 level book.  Ask an upperclassman. LOL!

I'm sorry, I didn't know we were debating.  ::)  I was merely exposing the HUGE flaws in your feeble attempt to try and sound smart  ;D

Now please, put your daddy's physio book down, and move along "majestic" one  ::)
just not good enough

MrC

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2007, 04:48:14 PM »
 CQ, SF and Pobrecito. very good posts on this stuff, nothing more accurate in this thred yet in my opinion.

Anyone find they get a huge crash when the effects wear off( yawning tired etc) or feel edgy when u are on top of the "buzz" it gives??

pumpster

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2007, 04:49:40 PM »
Further proof that you have to try it out and see what effects the drugs have on you.

Oh, and don't ever use more than 25mg of ephedrine in a 3-4 hour time period. Not only is taking more no more effective for fat burning and lean mass preservation, but it can also lead to a physiological addiction where one needs more and more to get that "high" feeling.

25 mg. seems to be the best dose.

Have you tried just caffeine pills vs. using both? How much of a difference did the stack and eph make in the equation to you? I'd rather just avoid eph unless it's a huge difference and use the caffeine for the energy.

The Squadfather

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #92 on: April 15, 2007, 04:51:09 PM »
i've got some bodyfat as this picture can attest to but i noticed that when i dropped the ephedrine i put on 15-20 pounds in the first month and a half or so, started sleeping a lot better and my appetite came back, i'd rather lose weight the old fashioned way through cleaning up the diet and doing cardio.

CQ

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #93 on: April 15, 2007, 04:52:10 PM »
Further proof that you have to try it out and see what effects the drugs have on you.

Oh, and don't ever use more than 25mg of ephedrine in a 3-4 hour time period. Not only is taking more no more effective for fat burning and lean mass preservation, but it can also lead to a physiological addiction where one needs more and more to get that "high" feeling.

Thing is it wasn't that bad when I took it like 10 years ago. Now, it really affects me.

Anyone know why?

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #94 on: April 15, 2007, 04:57:00 PM »
25 mg. seems to be the best dose.

Have you tried just caffeine pills vs. using both? How much of a difference did the stack and eph make in the equation to you? I'd rather just avoid eph unless it's a huge difference and use the caffeine for the energy.

I've never used used caffeine alone - well, only when pulling an all-nighter for an exam  :)

Clinically, the EC(A) stack (note, in many of the peer reviewed studies I have read, aspirin was not used), has been shown to make a very significant effect when in a caloric defecit. To me, the single most important aspect of the EC stack is its predisposition for lean mass preservation even when in a caloric defecit. A lot of people like it for the energy aspect in the gym, but to me the former is a much more compelling reason to use these drugs. I would highly recommend their use when dieting!

pumpster

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #95 on: April 15, 2007, 04:58:49 PM »
I've never used used caffeine alone - well, only when pulling an all-nighter for an exam  :)

Clinically, the EC(A) stack (note, in many of the peer reviewed studies I have read, aspirin was not used), has been shown to make a very significant effect when in a caloric defecit. To me, the single most important aspect of the EC stack is its predisposition for lean mass preservation even when in a caloric defecit. A lot of people like it for the energy aspect in the gym, but to me the former is a much more compelling reason to use these drugs. I would highly recommend their use when dieting!

Tks, i'll try it for a long while then later go just with caffeine and see what happens.

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #96 on: April 15, 2007, 04:59:41 PM »
Thing is it wasn't that bad when I took it like 10 years ago. Now, it really affects me.

Anyone know why?

Could be the quality or purity of the product.

Through my own use, I have found GH15's recommendation of Bronkaid to be spot on the money. The reason for this is that Bronkaid is made by Bayer, a legit pharmeceutical company. I have used Vasopro and Biotek ephedrine, and I don't think the quality was quite up to par with Bayer.

pumpster

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #97 on: April 15, 2007, 05:02:02 PM »
How about sleep patterns as well as perceived health risk from moderate 25 mg. ephedrine doses?

pobrecito

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #98 on: April 15, 2007, 05:08:03 PM »
How about sleep patterns as well as perceived health risk from moderate 25 mg. ephedrine doses?

Again, very personalized issued. For me, I had no issues. But several posters in this thread have noted insomnia.

As far as health risks:

#  The evidence shows that there is an increase in blood pressure attributable to ephedrine alkaloids. A relative increase in blood pressure in any population, even individuals with "normal" blood pressure, will increase the risk of heart attack, stroke, and death in that population. Many individuals are unaware that they have coronary artery disease or early heart failure because these conditions may not cause prominent symptoms until later in the course of these conditions.
# Approximately one in four adults has high blood pressure. Of those with high blood pressure, 31 percent are unaware that they have it. The extremely high prevalence of diagnosed and undiagnosed hypertension in the United States population, and the likelihood that blood pressure in obese patients is already elevated, make the effects of great concern.
# The published controlled studies of the use of ephedrine alkaloid products for weight loss cannot establish the safety profile of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids because many of the most serious risks, such as strokes or heart attacks (consequences of elevated blood pressure), arrhythmias, or worsened heart failure would not have been detected in the trials because of the design limitations of these trials. These limitations also impact certain conclusions attributed to these trials.
# Based on clinical data, the ephedrine alkaloids present in dietary supplements would be expected to have the same or similar effects as other sympathomimetics on heart rate and blood pressure. Controlled clinical trials using products containing ephedrine alkaloids confirm their typical sympathomimetic effects. These studies show a blood pressure effect from ephedrine itself, independent of any additional effect from caffeine.
# There is evidence from peer-reviewed scientific literature that a wide range of drugs with sympathomimetic activity have adverse effects (increased mortality due to heart failure and sudden death) in patients studied with congestive heart failure. These effects have been seen in relatively short-term studies. Similarly, there are studies that document that people with coronary artery disease are more susceptible to the well-known pro-arrhythmic effects of sympathomimetics. The occurrence of such an arrhythmic event is not one that requires prolonged exposure but would represent a risk associated with each use, including the first.




So essentially, the vast majority of the risks come if you have a health predisposition that the stack will exacerbate. I know you have said in the past you were in your 40s, not sure if this is correct or not, but you may want to get a check up with your doctor and see if you have any heart issues before commencing.

pumpster

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Re: gh15 tip of the week
« Reply #99 on: April 15, 2007, 05:09:30 PM »
Need to lose this extra weight but the heartrate/BP of an athlete according to my doctor a week ago. ;)