No such thing as an Atheist?

[OzmO]

Oh, people are allowed to join murderous, terrorists groups in the US and that in itself is not against the law?  Okay, my mistake.

Like I said, OzmO, I don't expect to change your mind.  But a lot of this is just your opinion, to which you are entitled to.  These were evil men, not innocent, "insecure" men as you put it.  I have good reasons for not sharing your skepticism and I have good reasons for not seeing your inconsistencies.

How is it that you join a group loco?   Do they have meeting halls?   Think about what you just said here.   People are allowed in the US to join any group they want....it's guaranteed by the constitution, but if they break laws they will be punished.   Like, that group of pedophiles.  If you join a terrorist group you won;t get executed unless you murder someone.  You may face time.  but you won;t get killed.


Call it want you want loco,  those men had not committed a crime of worthy of being executed.  Moses murdered them in God's name just like some many people have been murdered over the centuries.

[loco]

How is it that you join a group loco?   Do they have meeting halls?   Think about what you just said here.   People are allowed in the US to join any group they want....it's guaranteed by the constitution, but if they break laws they will be punished.   Like, that group of pedophiles.  If you join a terrorist group you won;t get executed unless you murder someone.  You may face time.  but you won;t get killed.


Call it want you want loco,  those men had not committed a crime of worthy of being executed.  Moses murdered them in God's name just like some many people have been murdered over the centuries.

This so called "murderer", Moses, gave Israel the following law.  Pretty good for a "murderer", don't you think?  Guess we should throw everything this "murderer" said out the window.

Exodus

"Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12

"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14

"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16

Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22

Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1

Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2

Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5

Treat the poor fairly. 23:6

Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7

Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9

Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11

[OzmO]

This so called "murderer", Moses, gave Israel the following law.  Pretty good for a "murderer", don't you think?  Guess we should throw everything this "murderer" said out the window.

Exodus

"Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12

"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14

"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16

Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22

Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1

Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2

Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5

Treat the poor fairly. 23:6

Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7

Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9

Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11

Yeah,  Hitler rebuilt Germany out of the ashes of WW1.   

Of course everything Moses did wasn't bad,  he did much good.  but he also murdered 3000 people.   loco, you are well aware that people are rarely black and white, pure good or pure evil when it comes to leadership in a country.

[loco]

Yeah,  Hitler rebuilt Germany out of the ashes of WW1.   

Of course everything Moses did wasn't bad,  he did much good.  but he also murdered 3000 people.   loco, you are well aware that people are rarely black and white, pure good or pure evil when it comes to leadership in a country.

Now you are comparing Moses to Hitler?   
That'll go really well with the Jewish community.

So Moses was pure evil?

I believe that Hitler was pure evil, and rebuilding Germany can't compare to the law that the "murderer", Moses, gave Israel.

[OzmO]

Now you are comparing Moses to Hitler?   
That'll go really well with the Jewish community.

So Moses was pure evil?

No offense intended loco,  are you having problems reading today?

I was only making the point that while Hitler is very evil, he did get Germany back on it's feet from a tragic depression brought about from the treaty of versillies.

You were making a comparison of Moses the murderer between his act of killing 3000 men and establishing the laws.

My point was, that people are rarely black and white, even if they are evil they do some good things, although it's few and far between evil acts.

I amazes me however, that in the face of murdering 3000 people for what's not a just reason, you call this God described in exodus, as just, and merciful.

[OzmO]

Here's a question for you loco. 

All those prisoners we took from Iraq and Afghanistan....should all those people be executed right now?

[loco]

Here's a question for you loco. 

All those prisoners we took from Iraq and Afghanistan....should all those people be executed right now?

I don't know.  Why?

[loco]

No offense intended loco,  are you having problems reading today?

Sorry, OzmO!  I wasn't done with my post when I hit post.   

[OzmO]

Sorry, OzmO!  I wasn't done with my post when I hit post.   

No problem bud.   

[OzmO]

I don't know.  Why?

Well they are terrorist aren't they?  they aim is to kill us isn't it?  although they haven't why shouldn't we just kill them now?

[loco]

Well they are terrorist aren't they?  they aim is to kill us isn't it?  although they haven't why shouldn't we just kill them now?

In my example, about all members of a murderous terrorist group being executed, whether or not they had a chance to kill, I wasn't saying that they should or should not be put to death.  If that's the law of the land, to put them to death, then yes.  Otherwise, no. 

You had asked me if I had kids. So my point was that if a judge is required by the law of the land to sentence his criminal son to death, for whatever crime the law says is punishable by death, then the judge would be unjust and a bad judge to let him go just because the criminal is his son.  The judge may be a good, loving father, but he would be a bad, unjust judge if he did something like that.  That's all.

[OzmO]

In my example, about all members of a murderous terrorist group being executed, whether or not they had a chance to kill, I wasn't saying that they should or should not be put to death.  If that's the law of the land, to put them to death, then yes.  Otherwise, no. 

You had asked me if I had kids. So my point was that if a judge is required by the law of the land to sentence his criminal son to death, for whatever crime the law says is punishable by death, then the judge would be unjust and a bad judge to let him go just because the criminal is his son.  The judge may be a good, loving father, but he would be a bad, unjust judge if he did something like that.  That's all.

If that was the law of the land....I'd move.  And the Judge doesn't matter and he  would be held accountable for his actions of condemning those to death when he dies before himself and God.  We have morals and to hide behind the law of the land is a cop out.  If i was in the Army and was ordered to kill a child i would rather face a firing squad or go to jail. 

If God told me to kill 3000 men for what they did, he can send me to hell himself because i will not violate my morals to satisfy a jealous angry "God."  Now if all 3000 participated in the murder of 3000 children., well then that's a different story.

I brought up the terrorist analogy because they potentially will kill others just like the 3000 men......Should we follow the example god has set for us in Exodus and kill them now before they have a chance to kill any of us?

[loco]

If God told me to kill 3000 men for what they did, he can send me to hell himself because i will not violate my morals to satisfy a jealous angry "God."  Now if all 3000 participated in the murder of 3000 children., well then that's a different story.

I see what you are saying, OzmO.  If God told you to kill these evil men to prevent the child burning idol worship and save the children, you would refuse because you know better than God.  Instead, you would sit and wait until they had thrown their children into the fire and then you would kill these men. So now you would have these evil men killed, and their innocent children dead too.  I don't think that's better, OzmO. 

Or, as you said earlier, you would cast them out of the group and tell them to go their own way.  In other words, you would have them go do their child burning elsewhere.  I don't think that's better either.

[loco]

we don't punish people for what they might do, we punish them for what they did.

Yes you do:

As a police officer:

 you are in a hostage situation where a man is holding a weapon to a kids head and threatening to kill him.  You have a head shot and your commanding officer tells you to take it.  Do you take the shot to save the child?

Or, you walk into a cult worship ceremony and find a priest holding a knife right in front of a stone table with a bound child on it.  You point your gun at him and tell him to freeze, but he raises his knife over the child instead.  You have a shot, do you shoot to kill to save the child?

You run into an alley and find you fellow police officer wounded on the ground with a criminal standing in front of him ready to shoot him dead, do you shoot to kill to save your partner?

If your answer is Yes, then you would be killing somebody for what they might do, not for what they did.  If your answer is no, then no offence, but I would not want you serving as a police officer in my police force.

If i was in the Army and was ordered to kill a child i would rather face a firing squad or go to jail.

Even if that child was holding an automatic rifle and was about to shoot dead your wounded, fellow soldiers?  You would not shoot and kill the child before he/she killed your wounded fellow soldiers?  To make things worse, your fellow soldiers could be your best friend, your brother or sister, or your father.  Would you not shoot and kill the child in this case?  If your answer is Yes, then you would be killing somebody for what they might do, not for what they did.  If your answer is no, then no offence, but I would not want you in my army.

And I hope you don't say that you would not shoot to kill, but that you would shoot to wound.  That's naive.  Soldiers and law enforcement know that if you try to simply wound a violent person who might kill somebody else, that violent person will very likely still kill the other person or kill you.  That's why you must shoot to kill.

So, there you have it.  You do kill people for what they might do.

[loco]

If that was the law of the land....I'd move.  And the Judge doesn't matter and he  would be held accountable for his actions of condemning those to death when he dies before himself and God. 

United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381
"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002381----000-.html

OzmO, a person may be sentenced to death for treason, not having killed anyone.  Why is the US and the courts not considered murderous in this case?  Because they are a higher authority.  Why should it be any different with God, when God is the highest authority?

[OzmO]

I see what you are saying, OzmO.  If God told you to kill these evil men to prevent the child burning idol worship and save the children, you would refuse because you know better than God.  Instead, you would sit and wait until they had thrown their children into the fire and then you would kill these men. So now you would have these evil men killed, and their innocent children dead too.  I don't think that's better, OzmO. 

Or, as you said earlier, you would cast them out of the group and tell them to go their own way.  In other words, you would have them go do their child burning elsewhere.  I don't think that's better either.

No,  loco, i don't know better then God.   But i do know better then Moses in this particular case of murdering 3000 men as per the reasons he gave in his account.  Frankly reading between the lines here, those 3000 men represented a threat to his control of the rest and Moses did what any despot would do in that time.  We don't know that these men would have started sacrificing children.  They were Egyptian slaves.  You do not punish somebody for something they might do.  You punish them for something they did.  this is a modern principle that separates us from barbarians.

Yes you do:

As a police officer:

 you are in a hostage situation where a man is holding a weapon to a kids head and threatening to kill him.  You have a head shot and your commanding officer tells you to take it.  Do you take the shot to save the child?

Or, you walk into a cult worship ceremony and find a priest holding a knife right in front of a stone table with a bound child on it.  You point your gun at him and tell him to freeze, but he raises his knife over the child instead.  You have a shot, do you shoot to kill to save the child?

You run into an alley and find you fellow police officer wounded on the ground with a criminal standing in front of him ready to shoot him dead, do you shoot to kill to save your partner?

If your answer is Yes, then you would be killing somebody for what they might do, not for what they did.  If your answer is no, then no offence, but I would not want you serving as a police officer in my police force.

Did they have kids on an alter ready to kill them?  No.  If so you punish the dozen or so involved.  You are only assuming that they would have sacrificed children and it's no certain they would have and even then they hadn't attempted or otherwise........go back to why they made the calf in the first place.

It's really kind of  a weak argument again loco, because are talking about a group pf people who got insecure about their future faith and made a golden calf or idol worship; who reverted to what "God" has turned his head to for centuries; who you are assuming were hell bent on killing children.   They didn't have a gun, a knife, they weren't in a alley.

Again you don't kill some one for what they might do because in this case you don't know for sure they will do.

United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381
"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002381----000-.html

OzmO, a person may be sentenced to death for treason, not having killed anyone.  Why is the US and the courts not considered murderous in this case?  Because they are a higher authority.  Why should it be any different with God, when God is the highest authority?

You would have to commit an act of treason to be put to death.  Joining an organization with in the USA in its self is not an act of treason.

Also, to go in another direction..............I f God had to threaten people to keep them in line.......perhaps the message is not pure which wold indicate the story is about man, not God's word.   

And if "God" as you assume is doing this because of potential child sacrifice what of the other 300 million in the world at the time?  Like i said, loco it's a weak argument about "god's" intention regarding child sacrifice.

[Butterbean]

God tells the people:

Exodus 20:3-5
You shall have no other gods before me.  You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them.....


Exodus 20:23
Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.


Exodus 22:20
Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed.




and then later they made a golden calf idol and "bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, 'These are your gods, O Israel.......'" (Ex 32:8 )

.....and so were destroyed.  Not inconsistent.

[Necrosis]

God tells the people:

Exodus 20:3-5
You shall have no other gods before me.  You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them.....


Exodus 20:23
Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.


Exodus 22:20
Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed.




and then later they made a golden calf idol and "bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, 'These are your gods, O Israel.......'" (Ex 32:8 )

.....and so were destroyed.  Not inconsistent.

not inconsistent, but absolutely ridiculous.

this god sounds like and egomaniac with a pension for killing those who do not obey him

also if god knows the future, doesnt he already know who will disobey him and thus be basically killing them before he created them?

please dont post a passage that says god is loving, how can you read that god wants you to worship(implying need) him and only him and if not, you will be destroyed. sounds like we dont have free will according to this snippet also. We MUST worship him or be destroyed, not much of a choice there is there?

the god of the bible doesnt make any sense, and is a horrible god imo.

if god created me with the propensity to act in a multitude of ways, i hope he is not petty enough to punish me if i use those attributes in an incorrect way.

my god would be all-loving, you could do as you please, and if he forbid something, then deny the option. how can you provide outlets to create negativity and expect( well according to the bible he already knows) nothing to occur?

[loco]

But i do know better then Moses in this particular case of murdering 3000 men as per the reasons he gave in his account.

Well, first of all, what we know about Moses is inconsistent with what you are saying.  Moses gave up wealth and power in Egypt, so he wasn't interested in that.  Moses became a shepherd, got married and had kids, and Moses was not interested in being a leader at all.  In fact, Moses despised the idea of leading his people.  Moses let Israel through the desert for 40 years and endured heat, hunger, thirst, all kinds of danger.  Moses endured complaints, criticism, ridicule and all kinds of head aces from the people of Israel.  Moses died poor and homeless.  So, no, Moses was not at all who you believe he was.  Moses did what he did because God commanded him to do it.  

God gave Moses and the people of Israel the law.  The people of Israel would not have accepted the "law of Moses" all these centuries had it really come from Moses.  They accepted it because they heard God Himself give it to them with a very loud and clear voice which they all heard.  

How is that murder, OzmO?

God tells the people:

Exodus 20:3-5
You shall have no other gods before me.  You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them.....

Exodus 20:23
Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.

Exodus 22:20
Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed.

and then later they made a golden calf idol and "bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, 'These are your gods, O Israel.......'" (Ex 32:8 )

.....and so were destroyed.  Not inconsistent.

God gave the law, God gave the punishment for breaking it, God exercised justice.

How is that murder?
  

United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381
"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002381----000-.html

How then, is this not murder?  Who or what gives the US the right and authority to dictate and define treason, to dictate the punishment?  Who gives the US the right and authority to determine that a human being has committed this treason?  Who gives the US the right and authority to condemn this person to death and carry out the punishment because this person committed treason?

The fact that the US is a higher authority over its citizens.

In the same way, God gave the law that Israel shall not make an image and worship it and sacrifice to it.  In the same way, God said that violating that law was punishable by death.  In the same way, God did as He said that He would do and destroyed those men for breaking this law.  

God is the highest authority.

[loco]

not inconsistent, but absolutely ridiculous.

this god sounds like and egomaniac with a pension for killing those who do not obey him

also if god knows the future, doesnt he already know who will disobey him and thus be basically killing them before he created them?

please dont post a passage that says god is loving, how can you read that god wants you to worship(implying need) him and only him and if not, you will be destroyed. sounds like we dont have free will according to this snippet also. We MUST worship him or be destroyed, not much of a choice there is there?

the god of the bible doesnt make any sense, and is a horrible god imo.

if god created me with the propensity to act in a multitude of ways, i hope he is not petty enough to punish me if i use those attributes in an incorrect way.

my god would be all-loving, you could do as you please, and if he forbid something, then deny the option. how can you provide outlets to create negativity and expect( well according to the bible he already knows) nothing to occur?

So, in your opinion, an all loving god would give you no free will at all.  An all loving god would have no law to protect the innocent from the evil people?  An all loving god would not punish those who break those laws? 

Idol and false god worship let to many detestable things in those days.  What is so bad about God abolishing these type of worship?

Moloch and Malcom are the same deity. Thus, the tabernacle or Sukkoth was understood to be that of Moloch and the star was of Raiphan as at the translation of the LXX or Malcom and Chiun from the Aramaic (cf. Lamsa's translation of the Peshitta). We are dealing with the fertility rites of Moloch and the Raiphan system. This fertility system has underpinned Israelite idolatry from the Exodus, through the kings and at the time of Amos and right after the captivity to the time of the apostles.
 
The Minotaur is the same being worshipped in the same way as the god Moloch or Malcom. It is the bull cult transferred to the crescent moon and involved human sacrifice (cf. Frazer The Golden Bough , Macmillan Press, 1976 print, iv, pp. 70-75).
 
The symbolism surrounding this calf system at Sinai, from Sin as progenitor, ties into the earliest and most primitive sacrificial system employing also temple and cult prostitution on a widespread level. This is the reason the revelry was associated with the Golden Calf. By the invocation, Sin as moon-god represented by the calf, the three-fold or triune aspects of he and his offspring were invoked.
 
The calf was also a symbol of fertility in the nature religions of the ancient Near-East. These symbols were incorporated into the feasts of Israel by Jeroboam as two calves (cf. 1Kings 12:28; Hos. 8:5; fn. to Oxford Annotated Bible RSV, p. 109).
 
The worship at the tabernacle of Moloch or Chemosh, was prevalent at the time of the Exodus, as we see from the advice of Balaam to the Moabites, to cast a stumbling-block to the children of Israel.  The calf-headed Moloch or Malcom and the Minotaur both involved human sacrifice.

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p222.html

Deuteronomy 12:31
"You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."

[loco]

this god sounds like and egomaniac with a pension for killing those who do not obey him

the god of the bible doesnt make any sense, and is a horrible god imo.

A God who would give this law does not seem "egomaniac" and "horrible" to me.

Exodus

"Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12

"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14

"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16

Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22

Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1

Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2

Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5

Treat the poor fairly. 23:6

Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7

Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9

Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11

[OzmO]

Well, first of all, what we know about Moses is inconsistent with what you are saying.  Moses gave up wealth and power in Egypt, so he wasn't interested in that.  Moses became a shepherd, got married and had kids, and Moses was not interested in being a leader at all.  In fact, Moses despised the idea of leading his people.  Moses let Israel through the desert for 40 years and endured heat, hunger, thirst, all kinds of danger.  Moses endured complaints, criticism, ridicule and all kinds of head aces from the people of Israel.  Moses died poor and homeless.  So, no, Moses was not at all who you believe he was.  Moses did what he did because God commanded him to do it. 

God gave Moses and the people of Israel the law.  The people of Israel would not have accepted the "law of Moses" all these centuries had it really come from Moses.  They accepted it because they heard God Himself give it to them with a very loud and clear voice which they all heard. 

How is that murder, OzmO?

God gave the law, God gave the punishment for breaking it, God exercised justice.

How is that murder?

It's very much murder......under the category of religious persecution.

whether Moses wanted it or not....as the story is told, he had the responsibility before God as the the leader and once his authority was threatened he put them to death instead of sending them away or allowing them to what they wanted under the condition of no child sacrifice.

Again!  to tell me that God did this because of child sacrifice is ridiculous when you consider the 300 million other people who were all doing as you suggested.

You remember i told you that i didn't believe anyone has the right to take anothers life?  I'm not pro-capital punishment although for emotional reasons i  would be.

God exercised justice.

That is not justice to murder 3000 people because they didn't "buy into" your VAIN law of obedience.  That's straight bull crap.   That wasn't God.  It was Moses.

Moses exercised murder and blamed it on orders from God.  Moses was the jealous insecure rage-a-holic who was under stress and being questioned all the time.  I'm sure the death of the 3000 went far to shut them all up.

How then, is this not murder?  Who or what gives the US the right and authority to dictate and define treason, to dictate the punishment?  Who gives the US the right and authority to determine that a human being has committed this treason?  Who gives the US the right and authority to condemn this person to death and carry out the punishment because this person committed treason?

The fact that the US is a higher authority over its citizens.

The people of the united states gave them the authority.  Hence and act of treason that "levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere"

All of which directly produces harm.   As it happens they get punished.  by joining an organization in the USA you do not get punished until you commit a crime that produces victims.   

These people were not doing that.  They were following a religion......like Buddists, Muslim, Jews, Hindus, etc....   Are you justified under God's example to kill all of them?

[loco]

Again!  to tell me that God did this because of child sacrifice is ridiculous when you consider the 300 million other people who were all doing as you suggested.

I didn't say that God did it because of child sacrifice.  God did it because they built and worshiped the calf.  What I was saying is that you can't bring up "religious freedom" into this and start throwing "Buddhists, Muslim, Jews, Hindus," into the discussion because God did condemn human sacrifice and the worship of the calf did involve human sacrifice.

Deuteronomy 12:31
"in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."
 
2 Kings 17:14-17
"But they would not listen and were as stiff-necked as their fathers, who did not trust in the LORD their God. 15 They rejected his decrees and the covenant he had made with their fathers and the warnings he had given them. They followed worthless idols and themselves became worthless. They imitated the nations around them although the LORD had ordered them, "Do not do as they do," and they did the things the LORD had forbidden them to do. 
They forsook all the commands of the LORD their God and made for themselves two idols cast in the shape of calves, and an Asherah pole. They bowed down to all the starry hosts, and they worshiped Baal. 17 They sacrificed their sons and daughters in the fire."

Deuteronomy 18:9
"Don't you dare sacrifice your son or daughter in the fire"

The people of the united states gave them the authority. 

Really?  You?  You and who else gave the authority to kill a human being for committing a so called "treason"?  Who are you and those others to decide what is treason and to decide who committed it and to take their life?

All of which directly produces harm.

So a person who commits treason directly commits murder?  They haven't killed anyone, yet they are put to death(murdered?).

As it happens they get punished. 

They get killed(murdered?).

by joining an organization in the USA you do not get punished until you commit a crime that produces victims.   

OzmO, this has nothing to do with joining an organization.  I dropped that one the minute you told me that joining a murderous terrorist group in the US is not a crime.  I never said that joining a group is treason.  That is exactly why I posted the definition of what is treason in the US.

These people were not doing that.  They were following a religion......like Buddists, Muslim, Jews, Hindus, etc....   Are you justified under God's example to kill all of them?

No, not like "Buddhists, Muslim, Jews, Hindus"  You are actually insulting all these religions:

Moloch and Malcom are the same deity. Thus, the tabernacle or Sukkoth was understood to be that of Moloch and the star was of Raiphan as at the translation of the LXX or Malcom and Chiun from the Aramaic (cf. Lamsa's translation of the Peshitta). We are dealing with the fertility rites of Moloch and the Raiphan system. This fertility system has underpinned Israelite idolatry from the Exodus, through the kings and at the time of Amos and right after the captivity to the time of the apostles.
 
The Minotaur is the same being worshipped in the same way as the god Moloch or Malcom. It is the bull cult transferred to the crescent moon and involved human sacrifice (cf. Frazer The Golden Bough , Macmillan Press, 1976 print, iv, pp. 70-75).
 
The symbolism surrounding this calf system at Sinai, from Sin as progenitor, ties into the earliest and most primitive sacrificial system employing also temple and cult prostitution on a widespread level. This is the reason the revelry was associated with the Golden Calf. By the invocation, Sin as moon-god represented by the calf, the three-fold or triune aspects of he and his offspring were invoked.
 
The calf was also a symbol of fertility in the nature religions of the ancient Near-East. These symbols were incorporated into the feasts of Israel by Jeroboam as two calves (cf. 1Kings 12:28; Hos. 8:5; fn. to Oxford Annotated Bible RSV, p. 109).
 
The worship at the tabernacle of Moloch or Chemosh, was prevalent at the time of the Exodus, as we see from the advice of Balaam to the Moabites, to cast a stumbling-block to the children of Israel.  The calf-headed Moloch or Malcom and the Minotaur both involved human sacrifice.

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p222.html

Deuteronomy 12:31
"You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."

[OzmO]

Loco, you were the one who brought up Child sacrifice as justification for what God (moses) did.  not me.  Now it's not relevant?

Further more, there's a big difference between committing treason and causing others to die as a result of passing information to the enemy or sabotage versus deciding you want to pray to a calf in god's name.

I'm not insulting other religions....all I'm pointing out is that they don't worship the same way Christians do.  so should we put them to death too by God's (Moses) example?

[loco]

Loco, you were the one who brought up Child sacrifice as justification for what God (moses) did.  not me.  Now it's not relevant?

Further more, there's a big difference between committing treason and causing others to die as a result of passing information to the enemy or sabotage versus deciding you want to pray to a calf in god's name.

I'm not insulting other religions....all I'm pointing out is that they don't worship the same way Christians do.  so should we put them to death too by God's (Moses) example?

OzmO,
Discussing this with you any further is pointless because you are now putting words in my mouth: I never said that human sacrifice is the one reason these men were put to death, and I never said that human sacrifice was irrelevant.  It is relevant.

You keep ignoring my posts where I show that human sacrifice either happened or was about to happen because we know that it was part if their worship.  Why do you think they chose a calf and not a cat or a dog?

You backed yourself into a corner when you said that you don't "punish" people for what they "might do"(ever heard of "intent to kill"?) and that you would never kill a child if you were in the Army and were told to do it, but then you refused to answer all my questions about different situations in war and law enforcement.  They were Yes/No answers, but you didn't answer a single one.

Now you are adding to the word of God.  When and where did God or moses tell Israel to go kill other nations for not worshiping the way Israel does?  Where does God tell Christians to kill others for not worshiping the way Christians do?  God said that He did not want Israel to worship like their pagan neighbors, but God never told Israel to kill people of other nations for not worshiping the God of Israel.

So what's the point of discussing this with you any further?