Whats the story with Vince Gironda?

[DK II]

Because it's really elaborate stuff.  I don't want to bore people to tears who aren't interested in reading it.  I'd even be willing to make some copies of some of Vince's courses for people if they are wanted.

BS. Post them in the history section. Who's not interested doesn't need to read it.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=20.0

[Bluto]

Just post whatever you want about Gironda in this thread and we'll keep it going...

I'll post some quotes etc if I find something interesting or funny 

[jonsande]

I don't know too much about Gironda other than a lot of old BB greats trained at his gym, and his 8x8 training method that I'm currently using for just about all of my lifts except for deadlifts and stiff legged deadlifts.  Personally, knowing what little I do know about him, especially from some of what you guys contributed, he seems to have been years before his time in terms of certain training aspects. 

[tommywishbone]

Gironda was cool. Strange sometimes but cool. Too bad his style alienated so many people... he could have been much more popular.

[pumpster]

I remember another great answer in his MM magazine column:

Q: Hey Vince, how can I lost around 20 ponds in around a week?
A: Cut your head

Priceless, he was a genious

He would've been great on getbig.

[roc]

he looks incredible. terriffic lines. complestle flawless!!!!!

[anvil]

Vince was an epic character.  The man who got me started bodybuilding was close friends with Vince for decades.  Said that the stuff you read about him is TAME compared to how he was in person, just a non-stop ball of intensity and laughs 24/7.  Imagine the Squadfather on a $hitload of speed, that's how I imagine Vince from the stories I've heard 

[Sergio Rules 77]

When Arnold came here in 1968 Joe Weider sent Arnold to Gironda to be trained. That speaks volumes right there.

I thought Joe was the trainer of champions .

SERGIO!!!!

[bmacsys]

I thought Joe was the trainer of champions .

Since 1936!

[pumpster]

Everybody assumes that when he came to America he trained under the trainer of champions, Joe Weider. Nothing could be further from the truth. Weider just promoted Arnold and made a lot of money. Actually they both promoted each other and made a lot of money. Arnold's German industrial sponsor sent him to Vince. Of course, Arnold had a pretty big ego, although he was not that good when he started, being rather on the fat, fleshy side. He walked into Vince's Gym (John Balik, the editor of IRONMAN can substantiate this story as he was standing right there) and said, "I'm Arnold Schwarzennegger from Austria and I'm Mr. So and So." Vince looked up at him through his granny glasses and responded, "You're nothing but a fat you-know-what." For two years, Arnold spent time at Vince's Gym Then, after Joe Weider signed him, he went on to become a movie star and multi-millionaire. Years later, Arnold told Balik that was the best thing that ever happened to him because he thought he was king of the world and Vince brought him right down, shattered his ego. That about sums up Vince and says a lot for Arnold.

[JasonH]

Somehow I don't think Vince shattered Arnold's ego. If that had been the case Arnold would be a completely different person today.

[pumpster]

Somehow I don't think Vince shattered Arnold's ego. If that had been the case Arnold would be a completely different person today.

Interesting your strange interpretation. A reality check isn't synonymous with shattering an ego.

I applaud your defensiveness on Arnold, however.

[wes]

I`m currently doing 8 x 8 training and it kicks ass................makin g steady gains!

Vince was the man,way ahead of his time.

[Bluto]

8x8 to failure every set?

[pumpster]

8x8 to failure every set?

Come on man, you're on the training board..with that type of thing you stop short of failure on the first few or more sets.

[Bluto]

Come on man, you're on the training board..with that type of thing you stop short of failure on the first few or more sets.

so what would that make it, failure on 4-6 sets

[pumpster]

so what would that make it, failure on 4-6 sets

As long as failure's reached somewhere in the last 3-4 sets otherwise add weight. With something like this the number of sets of pumping is supposed to be part of what creates growth.

[Bluto]

As long as failure's reached somewhere in the last 3-4 sets otherwise add weight.

that's a lot of failure, far too much for me

[pumpster]

that's a lot of failure, far too much for me

Now i remember you're not for that.

I can't see the muscle growing to full potential without going to failure; without failure there's nothing to force it to fully adapt. Gironda thought same otherwise he could've suggested the same routine without working as hard.

[Bluto]

Now i remember you're not for that.

I can't see the muscle growing to full potential without going to failure; without failure there's nothing to force it to fully adapt. Gironda thought same otherwise he could've suggested the same routine without working as hard.

i go for failure but not for 3-4 sets per exercise that would be a lot of failure in one day and most surely prevent me from training as often as i currently do.
but opinions vary.
not sure how many pros go to failure that often. not to mention other athletes in other sports where going to failure just isnt smart since they train so much and so often, yet they have great development.

[pumpster]

i go for failure but not for 3-4 sets per exercise that would be a lot of failure in one day and most surely prevent me from training as often as i currently do.
but opinions vary.
not sure how many pros go to failure that often. not to mention other athletes in other sports where going to failure just isnt smart since they train so much and so often, yet they have great development.

Frequency of failure's more debatable and arguably not as important because there are diminishing returns each time. It's just a different effect & approach worth trying to see if it makes a difference, because the pumping sets arguably have an effect on tissue development.

You can do the same routine and go to failure less by doing 6 x 6 using a weight that gets you to failure on the last set or two.

[Max_Rep]

This is where information from Vince gets a little contradictory in my opinion.

Vince stated in several publications (articles, his book and I had a cassette tape of him saying it) that he was dead set against training to failure. He felt it lead to adrenal gland shut-down and that he had observed Olympic Weightlifters who always trained short of failure. The 8X8 program was designed to be done at 60-80% of capability and was to be done with less and less rest between sets starting with 60 seconds and eventually getting down to 15 seconds between sets.

By the way I interviewed Jim Morris recently (1973 AAU Mr. America) who trained with Bill Pearl and also got a lot of advice from Vince. He said that Pearl was also against training to failure.

Vince also always talked about doing only one exercise per body-part on the
6X6 or the 8X8 system.

Now here comes the contradiction: Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me. 

[pumpster]

Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me. 

Larry went into negative failure using partials. No doubt in my mind this is part of why he got so much of his potential.

[Disgusted]

This is where information from Vince gets a little contradictory in my opinion.

Vince stated in several publications (articles, his book and I had a cassette tape of him saying it) that he was dead set against training to failure. He felt it lead to adrenal gland shut-down and that he had observed Olympic Weightlifters who always trained short of failure. The 8X8 program was designed to be done at 60-80% of capability and was to be done with less and less rest between sets starting with 60 seconds and eventually getting down to 15 seconds between sets.

By the way I interviewed Jim Morris recently (1973 AAU Mr. America) who trained with Bill Pearl and also got a lot of advice from Vince. He said that Pearl was also against training to failure.

Vince also always talked about doing only one exercise per body-part on the
6X6 or the 8X8 system.

Now here comes the contradiction: Vince always bragged about training Larry Scott and Mohamed Makkawy. He had both these guys doing 6X6 or 8X8 with multiple exercises per body-part and he stated more that once that “Larry took every set as far as he could go with it”. That sounded like failure to me. 

I can not remember eaxctly how Vince worded it, but he had said before in the mags that Larry and Mohamed were "advanced" trainers and could handle doing more sets. I am sure that Vince knew that both these guys were using and so he knew that they could handle the extra sets and to failure training. A lot of what Vince recmmended was for the average guy or hard gainer that did not use drugs.

[pumpster]

A lot of what Vince recmmended was for the average guy or hard gainer that did not use drugs.

Popular unproven theory that drugs completely change every training dynamic that i don't believe. They help with certain general apects like recovery and endurance for example but not everything else.