Intelligent Design at its best!

[Deedee]

It's at this point that I find proponents of the doctrine of Original Sin refer to the mystery of God's will.  It's God's will that this happens and His thoughts/motives are beyond our ken.  His Plan is bigger than anything we can conceive.

This is the quandary that these supporters fall upon--God is a mystery yet we have his full conclusive Word in the good book--a book of history, science, ethics, morality, fashion, politics and on and on...but His will is still a mystery.

It gets to a point where any meaningful discussion of the topic devolves into this type of demagoguery.

You're right.  Normally that's the case. 

Except for some reason they don't want to accept that God is in charge of birth defects.  It's fascinating to me.

[Dos Equis]

Only in a world this demented and deluded could a comment like that get a rolly eyes smiley.

You never did explain why you believe Genesis is literally true!

   Yes I did. 

[Dos Equis]

But then, you're only arguing the point that God DOES plan birth defects. 

Because of Adam and Eve's indescretion with Satan and the apple, original sin and its consequences were unleashed upon the world.  Granted.

If God created man, he ensured that some of the population would carry the propensity for bearing defective offspring, via our genetics.  In short, if God created man, then he also created our genetics... ergo he "created" birth defects. 

This idea totally works within the Adam and Eve original sin issue. Doesn't it?

And finally, it seems God has had no problem with the murder of children (as is written in the bible), so why would He balk at creating children with defects, as a reminder of our weakness and sin?

Your rationale only works if God created Adam and Eve as imperfect beings. 

[loco]

You're right.  Normally that's the case. 

Except for some reason they don't want to accept that God is in charge of birth defects.  It's fascinating to me.

Not necessarily.  I guess you could argue that God is in charge of birth defects, by allowing them to occur as a consequence of sin, by causing some of them like in the case of the blind man in the NT, by preventing some of them that we do not know He might have prevented, etc.

So glad I can fascinate you, Deedee!   

[Deedee]

Your rationale only works if God created Adam and Eve as imperfect beings. 

Not really.  People on this thread have claimed that birth defects are the punishment exacted from God as a result of original sin. 

If God doled out the punishment for original sin which was to be suffered over the generations, you then have to acknowledge that God altered human DNA in order for some to produce a certain % of defective offspring.

If you don't think birth defects are a consequence of original sin, but do believe that God created man, then it follows rationally that God simply included chromosomal anomolies in some humans from the start.

Or, you could believe that some other entity, like Satan had a hand in it, although there is no biblical reference to support that, is there? (The whole original sin thing is mostly a Paul project... does anyone else mention it even?)

But if you believe that birth defects are simply the result of nature screw-ups and God has nothing to do with any of it, then I hate to break it to you, but you're arguing for evolution and natural selection.



 

[Deedee]

Not necessarily.  I guess you could argue that God is in charge of birth defects, by allowing them to occur as a consequence of sin, by causing some of them like in the case of the blind man in the NT, by preventing some of them that we do not know He might have prevented, etc.

So glad I can fascinate you, Deedee!   

Always. 

[Dos Equis]

Not really.  People on this thread have claimed that birth defects are the punishment exacted from God as a result of original sin. 

If God doled out the punishment for original sin which was to be suffered over the generations, you then have to acknowledge that God altered human DNA in order for some to produce a certain % of defective offspring.

If you don't think birth defects are a consequence of original sin, but do believe that God created man, then it follows rationally that God simply included chromosomal anomolies in some humans from the start.

Or, you could believe that some other entity, like Satan had a hand in it, although there is no biblical reference to support that, is there? (The whole original sin thing is mostly a Paul project... does anyone else mention it even?)

But if you believe that birth defects are simply the result of nature screw-ups and God has nothing to do with any of it, then I hate to break it to you, but you're arguing for evolution and natural selection.

I disagree.  That just doesn't make sense.  He couldn't have created an imperfect perfect person.  That's essentially what you're saying.  If sin never entered the world through Adam and Eve then there would have been no disease, abnormalities, etc.  There would have no suffering and no death.

The conduct of men and women after "the fall" resulted in all sorts of problems.     

[Straw Man]

This "debate" is hilarious.

It's so f'ng funny when religious people explain what their God intends/intended, what their God does and doesn't do, etc...

Here's a thought - how do you know God doesn't plan the deformed child because that person will teach other people (directly or indirectly) things they need to learn in their life.  How do you know God doesn't plan the "crack baby" because that person needs those challenges so when they become an adult it helps them somehow in their life.  I can think of a million different "what if" scenarios

The lengths you guys go through to align your belief system with the contradictions of reality is just so f'ng absurd

How can you have the audacity to use your feeble human reasoning to understand God's intentions/actions etc...

[loco]

This "debate" is hilarious.

It's so f'ng funny when religious people explain what their God intends/intended, what their God does and doesn't do, etc...

Here's a thought - how do you know God doesn't plan the deformed child because that person will teach other people (directly or indirectly) things they need to learn in their life.  How do you know God doesn't plan the "crack baby" because that person needs those challenges so when they become an adult it helps them somehow in their life.  I can think of a million different "what if" scenarios

The lengths you guys go through to align your belief system with the contradictions of reality is just so f'ng absurd

How can you have the audacity to use your feeble human reasoning to understand God's intentions/actions etc...

Straw Man, so you are saying that you believe in God and that God works in mysterious ways?  You've never heard a Christian say that before, have you?     

[Straw Man]

Straw Man, so you are saying that you believe in God and that God works in mysterious ways?  You've never heard a Christian say that before, have you?     

I'm not saying I believe in a Christian God or any God.....well maybe Vishnu

I'm just giving you an example of why maybe just maybe the human ability to reason and understand it just a little bit limited when it comes to understanding the actions of ones' God

[Deicide]

I'm not saying I believe in a Christian God or any God.....well maybe Vishnu

I'm just giving you an example of why maybe just maybe the human ability to reason and understand it just a little bit limited when it comes to understanding the actions of ones' God

Fucking Occam's Razor....get this god shit out of it...

Mutations occurr...that's just the way shit is...a much better explanation than wondering about the literal interpretation of ancient Sumerian and Persian mythology plagiarised by the Hebrews...

[Straw Man]

Fucking Occam's Razor....get this god shit out of it...

Mutations occurr...that's just the way shit is...a much better explanation than wondering about the literal interpretation of ancient Sumerian and Persian mythology plagiarised by the Hebrews...

my point was directed toward the "true believers" on this board who think can use their limited human perspective to explain their chosen god's intentions