Increasing Bench

[candidizzle]

yes, it probably gives a bigger 'anabolic signal' in the short term..

4sho

[jpm101]

There is overload and than there is  going to a point of failure. Different elements when it comes to serious training. PL'er will only encourage that point of failure once in a while (selected spaced training sessions) to test their max capacity in any lift (usually to gage their starting weights in a coming up match).  But never in regular training workouts. This should go for the BB'er also, that taking any movement to such a point of failure is never needed. And should be avoided if steady muscle gain is the goal.

If Painlayer69 is only a BB'er who wants a little up in benching, like say15 to 20 lbs than that is really no big deal. Got lot's of training advise so far on this thread. Try the negatives and partials for pretty quick increases in benching power. Or the good suggestions offered by Wes. Pretty much fit any one of them in a regular chest workout.

Might not try to ever think of chains, bands, board presses and such. Takes a lot of time & tec stuff to learn even the basic of these methods. Even for a PL'er. Also trying  positive failure, negatives failure or true complete failure which is a very rare state for the body to achieve. Unless your are near death. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

This should go for the BB'er also, that taking any movement to such a point of failure is never needed. And should be avoided if steady muscle gain is the goal.

Making unequivocal statements like this is foolish IMO. Just look at Pumping Iron for evidence entirely to the contrary, going to failure & looking great. I'll take Schwarzenegger's words, which agree with my own view-the body's not used to those extra reps (failure) which is what forces adaptation. The body adapts when forced to, will quite readily stay as it already is if given the chance.

[pumpster]

no its not. yes, it probably gives a bigger 'anabolic signal' in the short term..but it has to be weighed against recovery etc.

The only thing about that is there are all sorts of theories as to what's adequate recovery time. What's in vogue now is the less is more principle, training less vs. those who believe as i do that the muscle's ready for more in 2-3 days. Optimal frequency's entirely debatable, therefore frequency of training to failure is as well. Also have to factor in the length and intensity of workouts.

Bottom line most top BBs of the last 4-5 decades found that twice weekly was optimal frequency, which already differs from the less is more principle. Plenty of those guys were going to failure-the body only adapts when forced to by stress above and beyond it's current capabilities. Overload by definition is progressively doing more than what was formerly possible.

[candidizzle]

pump ive been thinking about that 3 day principle myself and want to try it but im not sure how i should structure a workout schedule ... any ideas ?

[MisterMagoo]

ask yourself where you're failing. first few inches? work your chest and lats. midpoint hang? bang on the shoulders. lockout? triceps.

you can tighten your back muscles, work on your leg drive, fix your breathing, alter your grip, change where the bar touches, all sorts of form tweaks and mean a gain or loss of even 30 pounds.

if all you're aiming for is a 20 pound hop, given the right coaching there's always the chance you could do it in a single workout.

[slaveboy1980]

The only thing about that is there are all sorts of theories as to what's adequate recovery time. What's in vogue now is the less is more principle, training less vs. those who believe as i do that the muscle's ready for more in 2-3 days. Optimal frequency's entirely debatable, therefore frequency of training to failure is as well. Also have to factor in the length and intensity of workouts.

basically what i said

Bottom line most top BBs of the last 4-5 decades found that twice weekly was optimal frequency, which already differs from the less is more principle. Plenty of those guys were going to failure-the body only adapts when forced to by stress above and beyond it's current capabilities. Overload by definition is progressively doing more than what was formerly possible.
no one was arguing about optimal frequency, i simply pointed out that going to failure isnt a necessity. i personally also believe that training twice a week is close to optimal training frequency formost people...except complete newbies who will probably grow better by 3 times per week(when you get stronger its better to scale it back to once every fifth day or twice a week )..studies show this too. also remember that the thread starter, asked about increasing bench, and most powerlifters dont go to failure all the time and they sure know alot about increasing bench.

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

conjugate method..learn it

find out what your weak areas are in your bench... and strengthen them...

learn to bench PROPERLY..not this bodybuilding style of shit.. learn to bench with the most efficient and fluid way possible.


when your back, delts, abs, arms, legs, etc. get stronger... the easier it is to bench. If you don't think all those are involved in benching you're kidding yourself..

eat..make sure you're recovery properly after each workout no matter what it is...

I could go on all night..

That is rich coming from a guy who would not know good form if it bit him in the ass...

Getting a stronger bench = finding a line between good form and cheating not getting the weight up at any expense and in anyway...IMO

[MisterMagoo]

That is rich coming from a guy who would not know good form if it bit him in the ass...

Getting a stronger bench = finding a line between good form and cheating not getting the weight up at any expense and in anyway...IMO

there's a difference between bad form and doing an exercise differently. his smith machine close-grip aside, wicked knows what he's doing, man.

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

there's a difference between bad form and doing an exercise differently. his smith machine close-grip aside, wicked knows what he's doing, man.

OK...If you say so, but these morons, doing the exercise "differently" are the same ones that after doing the exercises differently for a time eventually hurt themselves and never come/go back...

So you guys just keep re-inventing the wheel while we all laugh at you...

I on the other hand have been goin' for 14 years with minimal injuries...

[MisterMagoo]

OK...If you say so, but these morons, doing the exercise "differently" are the same ones that after doing the exercises differently for a time eventually hurt themselves and never come/go back...

So you guys just keep re-inventing the wheel while we all laugh at you...

I on the other hand have been goin' for 14 years with minimal injuries...

can you out-lift wicked? he's got a banded bench of 405 at the bottom with 465 at lockout, plus a pull over 7 plates. how about you?

just because you've been lifting for 14 years doesn't mean a lot unless you've got something to show for yourself in that time.

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

can you out-lift wicked? he's got a banded bench of 405 at the bottom with 465 at lockout, plus a pull over 7 plates. how about you?

just because you've been lifting for 14 years doesn't mean a lot unless you've got something to show for yourself in that time.

...and whole time he is doing it his back is doing over 50% of the work (on every exercise where he is not working his back)...

My God man have you ever seen him curl...My back hurts when he curls...lol

If that is what you guys call lifting, I ain't mad...Do your thing...PEACE

[MisterMagoo]

...and whole time he is doing it his back is doing over 50% of the work (on every exercise where he is not working his back)...

My God man have you ever seen him curl...My back hurts when he curls...lol

If that is what you guys call lifting, I ain't mad...Do your thing...PEACE

it's a deadlift. of course he's using a lot of back. have you seen PL'ers deadlift? check out benedikt magnusson or konstantin konstaninovs. ed coan used to say that when doing a sumo pull you don't need to keep your hips nearly as low as people claim.

it drives me NUTS to see pseudo-experts "correcting" high-level lifters. admit it. he's stronger than you and bigger than you and, surprise, he hasn't hurt his back because he's worked it to the point that the muscles there are his strongest.

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

it's a deadlift. of course he's using a lot of back. have you seen PL'ers deadlift? check out benedikt magnusson or konstantin konstaninovs. ed coan used to say that when doing a sumo pull you don't need to keep your hips nearly as low as people claim.

it drives me NUTS to see pseudo-experts "correcting" high-level lifters. admit it. he's stronger than you and bigger than you and, surprise, he hasn't hurt his back because he's worked it to the point that the muscles there are his strongest.

What part of "on every exercise where he is not working his back" did you miss on my last post, so obviously I would not be talking about deadlifts...Jesus...Read before you type Brother...

Just bypass the whole bench and curl argument and tell me of course he is using his back when he deadlifts...Good debate...lol

1.  I am not an expert and never said I was.

2.  You do not know that he is stronger than me.

3.  You do not know that he is bigger than me.

4.  You have no idea if he has hurt his back or not, you are not an MD and not qualified to make that call.

and last but not least...

5.  Speaking of driving you nuts, why don't you get off his nuts...

PEACE

[chaos]

What part of "on every exercise where he is not working his back" did you miss on my last post, so obviously I would not be talking about deadlifts...Jesus...Read before you type Brother...

Just bypass the whole bench and curl argument and tell me of course he is using his back when he deadlifts...Good debate...lol

1.  I am not an expert and never said I was.

2.  You do not know that he is stronger than me.

3.  You do not know that he is bigger than me.

4.  You have no idea if he has hurt his back or not, you are not an MD and not qualified to make that call.

and last but not least...

5.  Speaking of driving you nuts, why don't you get off his nuts...

PEACE

Weren't you run off here awhile back when your pic was posted and you turned out to be a bit on the.......uh......"chunky" side?

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

Weren't you run off here awhile back when your pic was posted and you turned out to be a bit on the.......uh......"chunky" side?

LOL...

Which time are you referring to:

1.  The time when Squadfather posted a pic of some guy with an Animal "Shut Up And Train" tee shirt on (he was a little chunky)...lol

or

2.  The time when Pandamonium posted a pic of a guy that came up on bodybuilding.com when he goggled my screen name (he was skinny)...lol

I have been accused of being both but Alas I was neither, but I digress...

They were both very entertaining...Thanks for remembering...

[MisterMagoo]

2.  You do not know that he is stronger than me.

3.  You do not know that he is bigger than me.

he's got pictures and videos up. until you decide to prove me wrong, i'm going to continue to assume he out and out embarrasses you.

[chaos]

LOL...

Which time are you referring to:

1.  The time when Squadfather posted a pic of some guy with an Animal "Shut Up And Train" tee shirt on (he was a little chunky)...lol

or

2.  The time when Pandamonium posted a pic of a guy that came up on bodybuilding.com when he goggled my screen name (he was skinny)...lol

I have been accused of being both but Alas I was neither, but I digress...

They were both very entertaining...Thanks for remembering...

I'd have to agree with Magoo, we are aware of what Wicked can do, you, like some of the mods here handing out advice, haven't proven a thing about what you are capable of, or why your ideas are any better than anyone else's.

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

he's got pictures and videos up. until you decide to prove me wrong, i'm going to continue to assume he out and out embarrasses you.

You can assume away baby (all the videos prove is, um what is it, yeah my point, watch the one where he is curling 90's...Frigin hilarious)...

OH...BTW...The only person you are embarrassing is yourself by swingin' from his nuts every post...

I am not narcissistic and have nothing to prove and that is why I have been on here for 4 years and no pic...PEACE

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

I'd have to agree with Magoo, we are aware of what Wicked can do, you, like some of the mods here handing out advice, haven't proven a thing about what you are capable of, or why your ideas are any better than anyone else's.

I have never, I repeat never, third time (fight club...lol) never given advice on here, only my opinion on the right and wrong ways to lift...Hope this helps...PEACE...

OH...BTW...My ideas (as you call them) are the wheel (which is what 98% of successful lifter and builders use), you are the one who keeps trying to re-invent it...Hope this helps as well...PEACE...

[chaos]

I have never, I repeat never, third time (fight club...lol) never given advice on here, only my opinion on the right and wrong ways to lift...Hope this helps...PEACE...

OH...BTW...My ideas (as you call them) are the wheel (which is what 98% of successful lifter and builders use), you are the one who keeps trying to re-invent it...Hope this helps as well...PEACE...

Says who? You. Go back through history, every bbing champ had his own style of lifting, every powerlifter has his own way of lifting, every strongman has his own way of training.....so your wheel has a flat.

Maybe you can call Wicked and ask him to hold your Pinto up while you change it.

WAR.

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

Says who? You. Go back through history, every bbing champ had his own style of lifting, every powerlifter has his own way of lifting, every strongman has his own way of training.....so your wheel has a flat.

Maybe you can call Wicked and ask him to hold your Pinto up while you change it.

WAR.

Maybe a better question to call and ask him is why 2, not 1, but 2 grown men are MELTING DOWN all over his nuts...lol...PEACE

[chaos]

Maybe a better question to call and ask him is why 2, not 1, but 2 grown men are MELTING DOWN all over his nuts...lol...PEACE

Yeah, maybe I could call him and ask him why some know-it-all is running his gums but hasn't backed up a word he's said.

WAR

[SHUTUPANDTRAIN]

Yeah, maybe I could call him and ask him why some know-it-all is running his gums but hasn't backed up a word he's said.

WAR

Dude...What are 12???...LOL...

It is called an opinion...Get over it, yourself and his nuts...HAHAHAHA

[chaos]

Dude...What are 12???...LOL...

It is called an opinion...Get over it, yourself and his nuts...HAHAHAHA

hahahaaa,  me? You're the one that keeps talking about another mans nuts.
you must be lonely tonight, maybe you should PM bayGBM.........