1 ½ - 2g carbs per pound of bodyweight for fat loss

[Bobby]

Article written by Chris Aceto. Also Chris Faildo keeps his carbs at 250g during his entire prep.

http://www.flexonline.com/diet_rapid_guide_weight_fat_loss_carbs_cardio_water_training_change_body/nutrition/86

Discuss

[Necrosis]

Jesus that was the worst article ive ever read. absolutely no justification for his article or reasoning.

[candidizzle]

LOL smokepole.

bobbby .... higher protien when dieting to avoid muscle loss.

although i dont like generalized rules like " so an so grams per pound per day "

i think here is what you do... you eat carb meals, you eat protein veggie meals. in the carb meals you keep your protein and carbs the same as youw ould when eating clean in the offseason. in the protein veggie meals you increase your protein intake to maybe 150% of what it is in the other meals.

you dont need super high protein with carbs, but without carbs you will need the higher protein to avoid muscle loss.

[YoungBlood]

Anytime I even got near my bodyweight in an equal number of grams, I'd get fat. That was my first realization that carbs are not needed.
Remember, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate!!!

[candidizzle]

Anytime I even got near my bodyweight in an equal number of grams, I'd get fat. That was my first realization that carbs are not needed.
Remember, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate!!!

did you eliminate all of your extra dietary fats when you started eating carbs? did you use insulin sensitizers like fish oil and r-ala ? how much protein did you eat in conjunction with your carbs? how did you space your carb intake?

[YoungBlood]

Yes I used all the crap you mentioned. I was having fish oils, both supplemental form and from fish like Tuna etc...several times a day. I would have flaxseed caps too.
My vitamins were taken, did the low fat route by cutting all visible fat off steak, pork chops or no skin on the chicken. My shakes were low fat, the milk was non-fat.
Every meal was no less than 2-3 hours apart. With the last two meals being as close to pure protein (all meat and maybe some veggies) as possible. Cottage cheese usually finished my night, every night.
I was doing many sessions of cardio, usually one 30-40min session in the morning on an empty stomach, and then again about 2 hours before bed, in which I'd rest 30min before eating and then eat, hit the sack.
IMO, carbs are just evil. They sure as hell taste great, but they're evil from many views.
Again, there is NO such thing as an essential carbohydrate!

[candidizzle]

true. but supplemental synthetic androgens arent "essential" either. they sure help you grow faster however !  and so does insulin releasing carbohydrates.

[YoungBlood]

true. but supplemental synthetic androgens arent "essential" either. they sure help you grow faster however !

And please relate how you make the connection.

[candidizzle]

And please relate how you make the connection.

what do you mean?

you said they arent essential. well technically no, glucose isnt "essential". only amino acids and fatty acids have "essential" compounds in their macro-groups..or however you want to phrase that.

but what im saying is

just because they arent essential

doesnt mean they arent beneficial

if the make you personally fat, and to you being lean is more important than gaining muscl, than you personally should limit their intake to a level where they dont compromise body composition.

[Necrosis]

what do you mean?

you said they arent essential. well technically no, glucose isnt "essential". only amino acids and fatty acids have "essential" compounds in their macro-groups..or however you want to phrase that.

your body has to produce glucose in order to live whether from fatty acid breakdown via hormone sensitive lipase or deamination. i would say 20-30 grams of carbs would allow all the benefits and none of the sides here.

[candidizzle]

your body has to produce glucose in order to live whether from fatty acid breakdown via hormone sensitive lipase or deamination. i would say 20-30 grams of carbs would allow all the benefits and none of the sides here.

20-30 g per meal, is that you mean?

[YoungBlood]

I can eat 80g a day, without problem. At the time I realized that eating my bodyweight (170g+) per day I would get fat, and I prefer leanness.
And no, I do NOT think you have to have carbs in order to gain muscle, nor do you have to lose leanness to "bulk up."

While I'm at it, there is no such thing as a "clean bulk" as I hear too many say. You may be eating cleaner food, but if everything is the same, using the same parameters, bulking up "clean or dirty" you will put on excess weight. When I say bulk, I'm referring to "Trey Brewer's method" of gaining weight and pretending it's muscle.

[candidizzle]

yyou dont have to have carbs to grow.

but they help you grow faster.


you can gain muscle without gaining fat,, hell you can gain muscle while slowly lsoing fat, by eating the correct foods at the correct times.
eat to grow !  nothing more nothing less.
train to grow ! as intense as you can
 do cardio to burn fat ! low intensity and at key times (first thing in the morning and immidietly post traioning) to burn fat and not interfer with recovery

simple

[Necrosis]

20-30 g per meal, is that you mean?

nah per day. your brain needs about 26 grams to remain optimally functional

[candidizzle]

nah per day. your brain needs about 26 grams to remain optimally functional

my brain needs 27 

lol

milos said in his q&a he thinks de nova lipogensis is limited in humans.   what do you think usmoke

[Necrosis]

my brain needs 27 

lol

milos said in his q&a he thinks de nova lipogensis is limited in humans.   what do you think usmoke

if he is talking about new adipose tissue formation then i agree, increasing adipocyte size is the main mechanism of getting fatter. Increasing the intracellular storage of triglycerides is how we get fatter. New fat cell formation is very limited as theoretically adiocytes can expand indefinitely.

[candidizzle]

if he is talking about new adipose tissue formation then i agree, increasing adipocyte size is the main mechanism of getting fatter. Increasing the intracellular storage of triglycerides is how we get fatter. New fat cell formation is very limited as theoretically adiocytes can expand indefinitely.

First, if we all understand the real REASON to follow KETOGENIC TYPE OF DIET for bodybuilders and/or realize that DNL (or De Nuovo Lipogenesis) hardly happens in humans ( I know I am opening a can of worms, but - oh well... or maybe better choice of words would be that humans have very limited DNL capacity )- we can structure pretty much the PERFECT DIET where we could simultaneously build muscle and loose fat at the same time...

[Necrosis]

well for one he has a spelling mistake de novo as de nuovo  fat formation ie triglyceride formation occurs quite easily in the presence of insulin but he is stating that it occurs less so in ketogenic diets. This is correct because lipogenesis is controlled by many hormones but the main player is insulin, with lower insulin levels fat storage is hard to do. In fact there are studies showing hypercaloric diets where weight was lost via a very low carb diet.


i would agree with what he is stating. however, he is not opening a can of worms and gary tabues a guy name atkins and many many other nutrtional researchers have pointed out that ketogenic diets are best for fat loss.

[YoungBlood]

yyou dont have to have carbs to grow.

but they help you grow faster.

simple

So by your theory, you can bulk up from 150# to 225# faster because you're eating carbs (really just more calories in general, which your body can't utilize....=fat storage). Lets say that you do gain a lot of muscle doing this.
So when you diet, you cut back on carbs and you should lose this excess weight just as fast too?

[candidizzle]

So by your theory, you can bulk up from 150# to 225# faster because you're eating carbs (really just more calories in general, which your body can't utilize....=fat storage). Lets say that you do gain a lot of muscle doing this.
So when you diet, you cut back on carbs and you should lose this excess weight just as fast too?

yes.

take one diet, which contains 50 g protein along with 23 grams fat and some veggies every meal.  do that for 6 months with hard training and once weekly high carb days to fil glycogen.

take another diet, with 50 grams protein, 50 grams carbs, and some veggies every meal. do that for 6 months with hard training.

compare diet one and two after 6 months, with all other things being equal, the guy who used diet 2 will have more muscle mass than the guy who did diet 1. simply because INSULIN is the most anabolic hormone in the human body. and when you have insulin release at every meal, you have growth at every meal.

 


now, as for the fat loss...  like i already said..if carbs make you fat, then limit their intake to a point where they dont make you fat.   but actually you are correct, someone who starts afat loss cycle with high carb intake will lose fat quicker than someone who starts a fat loss cycle from a moderate or low carb intake. more carbs= more t3 production less cortisol production.

not too mention more muscle= easyer and faster fat loss. and a higher carb diet = more muscle.

[YoungBlood]

compare diet one and two after 6 months, with all other things being equal, the guy who used diet 2 will have more muscle mass than the guy who did diet 1. simply because INSULIN is the most anabolic hormone in the human body. and when you have insulin release at every meal, you have growth at every meal.

So the diet I've been on, which has a mere 80g of carbs, has restricted my muscle growth? Yet, I'm alongside all these guys in the gym and have progressed 200% more in the last 6 months than they have, yet they're on the other diet you speak of?
And to top it off, I've tried your diet/marco nutrient breakdown of food, and it doesn't do anything special for me. Only gets me fat. I have far more energy eating what I do now, and have progressed much better than when eating any decent amount of carbs for a steady period.

[candidizzle]

So the diet I've been on, which has a mere 80g of carbs, has restricted my muscle growth? Yet, I'm alongside all these guys in the gym and have progressed 200% more in the last 6 months than they have, yet they're on the other diet you speak of?
And to top it off, I've tried your diet/marco nutrient breakdown of food, and it doesn't do anything special for me. Only gets me fat. I have far more energy eating what I do now, and have progressed much better than when eating any decent amount of carbs for a steady period.

i wouldnt say it has "restricted" muscle growth. but you would be growing bigger muscles at a faster rate if you had a consistant daily intake of starchy carbs to keep insulin levels above baseline.

[YoungBlood]

i wouldnt say it has "restricted" muscle growth. but you would be growing bigger muscles at a faster rate if you had a consistant daily intake of starchy carbs to keep insulin levels above baseline.

If that is the case, I would just lose them anyway, which you say in the below quote (with mine quoted so you know what it is in reference to).

. So when you diet, you cut back on carbs and you should lose this excess weight just as fast too?

yes.
...take one diet, which contains 50 g protein along with 23 grams fat and some veggies every meal.  do that for 6 months with hard training and once weekly high carb days to fil glycogen.
take another diet, with 50 grams protein, 50 grams carbs, and some veggies every meal. do that for 6 months with hard training....

[candidizzle]

If that is the case, I would just lose them anyway, which you say in the below quote (with mine quoted so you know what it is in reference to).

what do you mean dude? 

[YoungBlood]

So by your theory, you can bulk up from 150# to 225# faster because you're eating carbs (really just more calories in general, which your body can't utilize....=fat storage). Lets say that you do gain a lot of muscle doing this.
So when you diet, you cut back on carbs and you should lose this excess weight just as fast too?

yes.

take one diet, which contains 50 g protein along with 23 grams fat and some veggies every meal.  do that for 6 months with hard training and once weekly high carb days to fil glycogen.

take another diet, with 50 grams protein, 50 grams carbs, and some veggies every meal. do that for 6 months with hard training.

compare diet one and two after 6 months, with all other things being equal, the guy who used diet 2 will have more muscle mass than the guy who did diet 1. simply because INSULIN is the most anabolic hormone in the human body. and when you have insulin release at every meal, you have growth at every meal.

 


now, as for the fat loss...  like i already said..if carbs make you fat, then limit their intake to a point where they dont make you fat.   but actually you are correct, someone who starts afat loss cycle with high carb intake will lose fat quicker than someone who starts a fat loss cycle from a moderate or low carb intake. more carbs= more t3 production less cortisol production.

not too mention more muscle= easyer and faster fat loss. and a higher carb diet = more muscle.

In the quotes above, I asked you if I did the diet you outlined with the powerful insulin on your side; would I lose the muscle just as fast as I gained it? You replied YES.

It is in the above quotes, in bold for you.

So, again, why would I want to eat more carbs and gain muscle, if I would just lose the muscle anyway because I cut them out in order to lose weight faster....which according to you I would also lose the muscle I just gained too.