I took a vacation in CA back in 2002, stopped at Venice Beach, trained at Gold's...saw Tom and Bob training..honest no BS here...chest training...both did dumbbell presses into the 140's with very strict form in the 10-15 rep range, H/S machine was loaded with 45's again, no stupid sloppy form and smith inclines with 405/455lbs full range of motion. I was also training chest....aferwards, I went to the FireHouse for food, both where there also, they both posed for pics. with me and my girl, talked training-nutrition and bodybuilding with me...If you ever watch any of the BFTO tapes-videos, you will see some heavy weights they use, mind you, at this time, they are very deep into their pre-contest training as well!