Author Topic: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...  (Read 41446 times)

nodeal

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2008, 10:37:15 AM »
i dont do that either, i just eat a big chunk of meat at every meal, maybe 12-16 ounces, eat 5-6 meals a day, and drink a few scoops of whey before, during, and after i workout.   now thats in the offseason of cuorse, when im dieting, i cut the meat to about 8-12 ounces, and only have whey pre workout.

this is overkill. give some of that meat to the homeless.

right now im going to buy some PEPTOPRO which is a hydrolysed caseinate...hydrlyzed proteins are normally VERY bitter..but they are the best proteins availbale, at the moment, as they have the very fastest digestion rat epossible because thay are broken down into small peptides which are rapidly digested much quicker than a normal whey isolate. this pepto pro is a hydrolyzed protein, except its NOT bitter. its pricey though, cheapest ive found is 25 per pound on trueprotein.com.   i always enrinch my protein powder with about 20% l-leucine.

you are a supplement company's dream come true. sounds to me like you take the labels on the back of protein powder packages as gospel.

this point is moot. so what , what normal people eat? we are not making recommendations based off of what is the norm. thats not how its done. we make recommendations based off of what is optimal, and backed by science.  
 no its not, not even for a "healty diet", let alone enough to be optimal for protein synthesis (hypertophy, growth,  :-* ). .5gram per pound does not even cover base protein turn over. you do know that they are ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS, rght? lol

60%, 25%, 15% carb, protein, fat ratios in every meal, and as a cumulative ratio for your whole day. "essential" does not mean that you must consume a gross excess.

Exactly, an average person's diet barely ever meets the RDA
I have seen how people eat, maybe tbombz has forgotten how normal people eat?
1 gram per Kg about 0.5 gram per pound is enough
I'm not going out of my way to consume 500 grams of protein everyday
for those who are "living the dream" so be it  ::)
tbombz, you're not Ronnie Coleman.


and the study that you showed me is from very low calorie diets, and the effect of protein
you know the less than 800 calorie diets  ::)
it doesn't prove anything, I said excess protein doesn't help, the amount that you get on a VLCD is enough, not excessive.

yep, right on. too many gym enthusiasts think life is one big mr. olympia competition. stick with the food pyramid, optimal health is not a big secret. consume calories as needed, either by feel or professional assessment. it's these pro-protein fools who make ridiculous claims and complicate it for everyone else.

d0nny2600

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2008, 11:30:05 AM »
this is overkill. give some of that meat to the homeless.

you are a supplement company's dream come true. sounds to me like you take the labels on the back of protein powder packages as gospel.

60%, 25%, 15% carb, protein, fat ratios in every meal, and as a cumulative ratio for your whole day. "essential" does not mean that you must consume a gross excess.

yep, right on. too many gym enthusiasts think life is one big mr. olympia competition. stick with the food pyramid, optimal health is not a big secret. consume calories as needed, either by feel or professional assessment. it's these pro-protein fools who make ridiculous claims and complicate it for everyone else.
Nobody is forcing you to eat this way. If you haven't noticed this is a bodybuilding forum. The majority here consume an abundance of protein everyday. There is science backing up tbombz statements...if you don't like it tough shit.

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2008, 11:34:36 AM »
Not trying to be a smarta$$ but isn't he backed by scivation, and wouldn't that mean of course he would say that? 

I understand protein is important for muscle growth and all but the only supplementation of protein I have right now is one shake first thing in the morning with about 50 grams dymatize (for the blend) mainly for taste cause I add about 5 extra grams of l-leucine, a serving of creatine gluconate, a serving of beta alanine and a serving of l-glutamine.   I'm not an olympia winner or anything but in about 3 years I have put on about 28 lbs. (give or take) of lean mass. 

I have played around with supps/protein and have found that most of the time they are a waste of time and money and I call them 1 percenters because IMO that's all they help.  I currently weigh 215 and am about 18% bodyfat I only supp about 60 grams of protein and probably only eat 200 in whole food i have been taking this shake in the morning for about 6 months now (mainly trying to use up what I have bought) and I feel like I'm still making gains.

I only add this info cause I'm looking for you're input, so again not trying to be a smarta$$.
okay well i think that 260 is oky... if you lok at layne nortons presentation above he only has a 200lber eating something like 230 g a day.... if you look at his presentation it shows the amount of protein needed from each source of prtotein in order to maximize protein synthesis..i would go with what layne recommends.. which is a meal every 4-6 hours with protein ranging from 40-60 grams dpending on the source..

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2008, 11:36:39 AM »
stick with the food pyramid,
there you go..thank you...now i dont have to worrying about replying to your posts anymore. the only reason i was doing so was to make sure those who want the accurate info would know that what you saying is untrue...now that youve should yourself to all readers to be a know-nothing in regards to nutrition ("stick to the food pyramid")...i no longer gotta worry about peoplethinking what you say is accurate...  :-*

J Grey

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2008, 12:07:50 PM »
Nobody is forcing you to eat this way. If you haven't noticed this is a bodybuilding forum. The majority here consume an abundance of protein everyday. There is science backing up tbombz statements...if you don't like it tough shit.

where is the science?
science supports my statement not his

show me a study where excessive protein consumpion = excessive muscle growth

anything more than what you need 1g per kg is a waste

no tbombz you can't show studies of people eating 600 calories  ::)
it's not excessive protein, it's essential.

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2008, 12:11:38 PM »
where is the science?
science supports my statement not his

show me a study where excessive protein consumpion = excessive muscle growth

anything more than what you need 1g per kg is a waste

no tbombz you can't show studies of people eating 600 calories  ::)
it's not excessive protein, it's essential.
i didnt show studies of people eting 600 calories. the study i showed abou caloric intake showed that without a caloric intake at least a 15% SURPLUS OVER BASE METABOLIC RATE, you wont reatin nitrogen (YOU WONT GROW)

i posted numerous proofs of high protien intake. you choose not to take notice. the proof is right there for all to see. its your choice to be WRONG. you can be right, if only you choose to acknowledge that there is proff. its you who choose to ignore the proof, thus you CHOOSE TO BE WRONG.  :-*

 

nodeal

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2008, 12:14:25 PM »
Nobody is forcing you to eat this way. If you haven't noticed this is a bodybuilding forum. The majority here consume an abundance of protein everyday. There is science backing up tbombz statements...if you don't like it tough shit.

wow, compelling.
im contributing to the forum discussion. wait, i started this discussion.

there you go..thank you...now i dont have to worrying about replying to your posts anymore. the only reason i was doing so was to make sure those who want the accurate info would know that what you saying is untrue...now that youve should yourself to all readers to be a know-nothing in regards to nutrition ("stick to the food pyramid")...i no longer gotta worry about peoplethinking what you say is accurate...  :-*

haha yeah i really incriminated myself with that one, didnt i? the food pyramid, who would believe that? dieting and optimal health HAS to be more complicated than the food pyramid, otherwise it must be wrong! your thinking on nutrition is revolutionary i should have known better. 500 grams of protein and 30 set chest workouts = REAL RESULTS.  best of luck to you mr. olypmia ::)

J Grey

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2008, 12:14:51 PM »
i didnt show studies of people eting 600 calories. the study i showed abou caloric intake showed that without a caloric intake at least a 15% SURPLUS OVER BASE METABOLIC RATE, you wont reatin nitrogen (YOU WONT GROW)

i posted numerous proofs of high protien intake. you choose not to take notice. the proof is right there for all to see. its your choice to be WRONG. you can be right, if only you choose to acknowledge that there is proff. its you who choose to ignore the proof, thus you CHOOSE TO BE WRONG.  :-*


The first study you posted was about the muscle sparing effect that protein had on people on a VLCD eating 600 calories
and getting like 100 grams of protein


anyways, let me get this straight, now you're saying that gaining muscle without a calorie surplus is impossible?

J Grey

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2008, 12:16:53 PM »
wow, compelling.
im contributing to the forum discussion. wait, i started this discussion.

haha yeah i really incriminated myself with that one, didnt i? the food pyramid, who would believe that? dieting and optimal health HAS to be more complicated than the food pyramid, otherwise it must be wrong! your thinking on nutrition is revolutionary i should have known better. 500 grams of protein and 30 set chest workouts = REAL RESULTS.  best of luck to you mr. olypmia ::)


what a character this tbag is, he doesn't realize that he is just another gym rat on steroids and that he will never make it
this is probably why he keeps telling himself that success in the pro league is all about drugs and not genetics.
keep telling yourself that tbag.

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2008, 12:18:23 PM »
wow, compelling.
im contributing to the forum discussion. wait, i started this discussion.

haha yeah i really incriminated myself with that one, didnt i? the food pyramid, who would believe that? dieting and optimal health HAS to be more complicated than the food pyramid, otherwise it must be wrong! your thinking on nutrition is revolutionary i should have known better. 500 grams of protein and 30 set chest workouts = REAL RESULTS.  best of luck to you mr. olypmia ::)
the food pyramid is a joke. it was created based on what most people consumed, not based off of what is best for health. think about it, its really simple, carbohydrates are ahead of fruits and vegetables? huh? fats and meats at toward the top? the only two ESSENTIAL nutrients are EXXENTIAL FATTY ACIDS and ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS..yet these two essential hnutriants are much less important than NON ESSENTIAL, LOW IN VITAMINS AND NUTRIENTS, HIGHLY ACIDIC, CARBOHYDRATES?

 do you have any idea what protein turnover is? ive asked you that a million times and you dont respond. the sedentray individual, with noe xercise at all, is constantly using protein. if you not eating protein, the bod has t use its own protein. over time this leads to reduction in muscle mass and degradation of health (loss of key amino acids)...

son you need to open your mind and listen to those who are more knowldgeable thna yourself.

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2008, 12:19:43 PM »
The first study you posted was about the muscle sparing effect that protein had on people on a VLCD eating 600 calories
and getting like 100 grams of protein


anyways, let me get this straight, now you're saying that gaining muscle without a calorie surplus is impossible?
on the issue of the necessity of overeating calories for muscle growth =



The utilisation of both egg and polished rice protein in young men was about 30% higher and protein required to maintain N balance lower when fed at a calorie intake which was about 25% higher than that needed for maintenance (14). Similarly, when egg protein was fed at the “FAO/WHO 1973 safe level”, young men were in negative balance when their calorie intake was at maintenance level and they achieved positive balance only when calorie intakes were raised by 9 to 14% (15).

14. Inoue et al., J. Nutr., 103, 1673, 1973

15. Garza, C.G., Scrimshaw, N.S. and Young, V.R., Am.J.Clin.Nutr., 29, 280, 1976


^^ you will not grow without an excess of calories.






J Grey

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2008, 12:23:22 PM »
the food pyramid is a joke. it was created based on what most people consumed, not based off of what is best for health. think about it, its really simple, carbohydrates are ahead of fruits and vegetables? huh? fats and meats at toward the top? the only two ESSENTIAL nutrients are EXXENTIAL FATTY ACIDS and ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS..yet these two essential hnutriants are much less important than NON ESSENTIAL, LOW IN VITAMINS AND NUTRIENTS, HIGHLY ACIDIC, CARBOHYDRATES?

 do you have any idea what protein turnover is? ive asked you that a million times and you dont respond. the sedentray individual, with noe xercise at all, is constantly using protein. if you not eating protein, the bod has t use its own protein. over time this leads to reduction in muscle mass and degradation of health (loss of key amino acids)...

son you need to open your mind and listen to those who are more knowldgeable thna yourself.

oh yes your amazing protein turnover  ::)
protein is always breaking down and rebuilding, and 1 gram per Kg is more than enough to shift the nitrogen balance so you're gaining protein not losing it.
I know people who have not taken an Omega supplement their whole lives, how essential is it really when 90% of the population
gets less than 100 mg

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2008, 12:28:35 PM »
oh yes your amazing protein turnover  ::)
protein is always breaking down and rebuilding, and 1 gram per Kg is more than enough to shift the nitrogen balance so you're gaining protein not losing it.
I know people who have not taken an Omega supplement their whole lives, how essential is it really when 90% of the population
gets less than 100 mg
  ::) oh brother.

Arnold Palmer

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2008, 03:22:25 PM »
You have the appetite of a little girl. I never had a problem eating a ton of protein because I have two working testicles. But if you hate the feeling of being stuffed like a turkey, throw in a fat lip of skoal after you feed and you will feel better.

nodeal

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2008, 04:33:45 PM »
You have the appetite of a little girl. I never had a problem eating a ton of protein because I have two working testicles. But if you hate the feeling of being stuffed like a turkey, throw in a fat lip of skoal after you feed and you will feel better.

haha youre so cool and insightful. PM me and elaborate on how i can be more like you.

the food pyramid is a joke. it was created based on what most people consumed, not based off of what is best for health. think about it, its really simple, carbohydrates are ahead of fruits and vegetables? huh? fats and meats at toward the top? the only two ESSENTIAL nutrients are EXXENTIAL FATTY ACIDS and ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS..yet these two essential hnutriants are much less important than NON ESSENTIAL, LOW IN VITAMINS AND NUTRIENTS, HIGHLY ACIDIC, CARBOHYDRATES?

 do you have any idea what protein turnover is? ive asked you that a million times and you dont respond. the sedentray individual, with noe xercise at all, is constantly using protein. if you not eating protein, the bod has t use its own protein. over time this leads to reduction in muscle mass and degradation of health (loss of key amino acids)...

son you need to open your mind and listen to those who are more knowldgeable thna yourself.

haha are you kidding? the food pyramid was built around what everyone consumes? if that was the case, obesity would not be an issue. the food pyramid was created as a pictorial demonstration of the basics for a good, healthy, well rounded diet. it incorporates everything needed to reach and maintain optimum health (excluding exercise, of course), and shows all these things in the proper ratio. how can you misinterpret an illustration so badly? its designed for little kids to understand.

the carbs that are the foundation for the food pyramid are intended to be mostly whole grain foods. since when are whole grain foods low in nutrients? why are you demonizing carbs? you have the dieting expertise of a misguided middle aged woman on an atkins diet. 60% of calories should be consumed through carbohydrates because it is the cleanest burning source of energy (when broken down gives you CO2 + H20 + energy  with no byproducts). the food pyramid leaves plenty of room for a plentiful consumption of fruits and veggies (suggesting 2-4 servings of fruit and 3-5 of veggies, much more than what the avg person consumes), furthering the amount of vitamins and minerals consumed. as a bodybuilder, following the ratios of the food pyramid is the way to go, consuming just a bit more protein than recommended, and consuming more calories overall in the 60:25:15 (give or take 5 for each) ratio.

by the way, your "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT PROTEIN TURNOVER IS HUH??" bullshit doesnt help your credibility.

you know what, i suggest you keep a closed mind. you seem to either understand the wrong information, or interpret the right information in a deficient manner. do everyone a favor and keep your "knowledge" to yourself.

oh yes your amazing protein turnover  ::)
protein is always breaking down and rebuilding, and 1 gram per Kg is more than enough to shift the nitrogen balance so you're gaining protein not losing it.
I know people who have not taken an Omega supplement their whole lives, how essential is it really when 90% of the population
gets less than 100 mg

J Grey, some people just do not understand the 101 basics of things, and just become obsessed/sucked in by whatever crap they can feed into their brain. some people also arent good at filtering the information they read through common sense or experience. lucky for us we arent one of them.

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2008, 04:37:36 PM »
you are a waste of my time... i have proved the point by posting science that proves my point... im done trying to convice you that you would be better off eating more protein.... its your choice, and you choose t be wrong.. bye bye now  :-*

Rimbaud

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2008, 04:56:09 PM »
Taylor, I'm just curious...how would you explain someone who weighs say 235-240lbs & only eats on average say 175 grams of protein a day & is doing just fine?

laurion

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2008, 05:07:04 PM »
where is the science?
science supports my statement not his

show me a study where excessive protein consumpion = excessive muscle growth

anything more than what you need 1g per kg is a waste

no tbombz you can't show studies of people eating 600 calories  ::)
it's not excessive protein, it's essential.

One thing I will say (coming from the middle ground btw) is that no doctor or scientist will ever do studies regarding how much protein a bb should take except for a bb/scientist/doctor because they don't consider our lifestyle healthy.  We take growth to the extreme and we all know that it's unnatural that's why our bodies will eventually revert back to our baseline size without maintaining our exercise routine.  And being that we want extra extra EXTRA size on our muscles it is only natural that we should eat more FOOD , food is what makes us grow even if we don't work out and protein is without a doubt the most important food for muscle recovery (equaling growth.)  

Those who attempt to argue with tbombz using current science from "The food pyramid" is a little counter productive to me trying to convince a 200 lb. person who is suggesting that 400 grams of protein is ok, the fact is that it is a bit of overkill and is not necessary for growth as countless people have put on some nice size without it (but not without the juice  ;D.)

laurion

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2008, 05:13:59 PM »
Taylor, I'm just curious...how would you explain someone who weighs say 235-240lbs & only eats on average say 175 grams of protein a day & is doing just fine?

"A little extra protein would have caused that much more growth....." would be his argument.  And currently there is very little evidene either way to convince one side or the other of this argument other than the obvious science that food causes growth.  Not to start another debate... hopefully.  This can be backed up by the fact that animals from the past which are now extinct and current species as well have reached remarkable sizes with the only differences being high oxygen levels and limitless sources of food.

wes

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2008, 05:35:21 PM »
LIFT... EAT... REST... REPEAT !!  :)

darksol

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2008, 06:13:27 PM »
Getting the Grams per day is easy,  As most people on this board can woof down 200-300 grams of protein in a single sitting.  The hard part is eating 40-50 grams every 3 hours.  Eating huge amounts of protein in a single sitting is wasteful, as your body can only break down so much per sitting.  If you are serious about making some serious gains, I would recommend putting your focus on 40-50 grams every 3 hours, rather than 200-300 grams per day. 

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2008, 06:19:37 PM »
okay well i think that 260 is oky... if you lok at layne nortons presentation above he only has a 200lber eating something like 230 g a day.... if you look at his presentation it shows the amount of protein needed from each source of prtotein in order to maximize protein synthesis..i would go with what layne recommends.. which is a meal every 4-6 hours with protein ranging from 40-60 grams dpending on the source..

I think Layne is right on with this, and if u stick with this, your gains will keep on coming bro!!!!

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2008, 10:44:51 PM »
"A little extra protein would have caused that much more growth....." would be his argument.

tbombz

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2008, 10:47:07 PM »
I think Layne is right on with this, and if u stick with this, your gains will keep on coming bro!!!!
so do i

i just got another 8 pounds of whey iso 80% + 20% leucine today   8)

Alex23

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Re: a gram of protein per pound of body weight? i dont think so...
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2008, 10:55:00 PM »
Getting the Grams per day is easy,  As most people on this board can woof down 200-300 grams of protein in a single sitting.  The hard part is eating 40-50 grams every 3 hours.  Eating huge amounts of protein in a single sitting is wasteful, as your body can only break down so much per sitting.  If you are serious about making some serious gains, I would recommend putting your focus on 40-50 grams every 3 hours, rather than 200-300 grams per day. 

darksol, I appreciate the theory, but what about sucessful people with demanding careers? Should they interrupt board meetingd to ge their 40.9230497823g of protein every 2.3434hrs?

I see many guys at 250+ who eat 4 times a day. Lean and pushing amazing poundages.

What I'm saying is that you're overthinking the whole thing.