Author Topic: Lets just give up on Israel and the Arab world (Read 8489 times)

Slapper · « **Reply #50 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:58:24 AM »

Quote from: 333386 on January 02, 2009, 09:20:18 AM

Like i said earlier, Bill Clinton said in his memoirs that he shocked and blamed Arafat for this mess since Israel was offering 90% of what the palistinians wanted and that was not enough.

If 90% is not enough for these barbarians, than screw em, let them fight Israel to the death and hopefully they will end up with 0%.

That is definitely NOT TRUE.

Arafat or the Palestinians did not walk away from anything. What Arafat did was bring the proposal to all Arab nations' leaders and listen to their opinion on the content and fairness of the proposal. Negotiations went on for a couple more weeks (in Taba I believe) and the proposal was eventually informally withdrawn from the newly elected president Sharon.

Here's the video, which I think Benny Blanco originaly posted in another thread:

Cheers.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #51 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:07:16 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 03, 2009, 11:58:24 AM

That is definitely NOT TRUE.

Arafat or the Palestinians did not walk away from anything. What Arafat did was bring the proposal to all Arab nations' leaders and listen to their opinion on the content and fairness of the proposal. Negotiations went on for a couple more weeks (in Taba I believe) and the proposal was eventually informally withdrawn from the newly elected president Israel Sharon.

Here's the video, which I think Benny Blanco originaly posted in another thread:

Cheers.

This is no different than a school yard fight. Fighting does solve everything and until there is a defined winner, this garbage will continue.

Slapper · « **Reply #52 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:33:04 PM »

Quote from: 333386 on January 03, 2009, 12:07:16 PM

This is no different than a school yard fight. Fighting does solve everything and until there is a defined winner, this garbage will continue.

If I tell you that there is ample opinion from intellectuals and people who have ACTUALLY been involved in wars in which they pretty much agree that as far as wars go winning and losing is only a temporary concept/human perception, meaning it's never definite... would you believe me?

Aside from this, and if fighting is what you prefer as the desireable outcome, would you say the Israelo-Palestinian conflict is a balanced fight or outright abuse? When is throwing rocks and blowing yourself up or launching home-made rockets considered an "equal" to tanks, missiles or Migs? I don't know about you, but when someone in high school (since you used the school example) fights someone in kindergarden... it's not considered an actual fight. That would be the equivalent of calling pedophilia a "lifestyle choice" (from Bill Maher).

Fury · « **Reply #53 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:37:02 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 03, 2009, 12:33:04 PM

If I tell you that there is ample opinion from intellectuals and people who have ACTUALLY been involved in wars in which they pretty much agree that as far as wars go winning and losing is only a temporary concept/human perception, meaning it's never definite... would you believe me?

Aside from this, and if fighting is what you prefer as the desireable outcome, would you say the Israelo-Palestinian conflict is a balanced fight or outright abuse? When is throwing rocks and blowing yourself up or launching home-made rockets considered an "equal" to tanks, missiles or Migs? I don't know about you, but when someone in high school (since you used the school example) fights someone in kindergarden... it's not considered an actual fight. That would be the equivalent of calling pedophilia a "lifestyle choice" (from Bill Maher).

Ask yourself this question. If the situations were reversed and the Palestinians had the weaponry and Israel had the rocks and Qassam rockets, would it be any different? No. It would probably be worse. It's war. Since when is it supposed to be fair? Has anyone in war throughout history said, "Oh wait, we're vastly superior to them. Let's throw down our weapons and use what they're using." No. The Russians do this to the Chechens. The Chinese to the Tibetans. The Europeans throughout the ages. The Colombians against FARC. The Africans against each other. You sound like an idiot and a child making that argument. I really don't know why I bother reading your posts. You are obviously handicapped and a Muslim.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #54 on:** January 03, 2009, 01:28:11 PM »

Tough crap for them. If the focused on building an economy, maybe they would have money for better guns and bombs, and tanks.

BTW - total war does solve problems that cant be resolved through diplomacy.

you live in your hamlet of Armonk. What if the people from White Plains sent over 6000 rockets to Armonk??

I dont think you would be signing kumbaya and Give peace a chance.

That is nonsense. War is a fact of life. It has been since the dawn of time and will forever.

Read Sun Tzu or "War" by Robert Greene. War is never going away. You either accept it and be good at it or you lose.

The moron palistinians have even pissed off the other arab states and that is why no one is siding with them other than the HAMAS lovers like yourself.

Slapper · « **Reply #55 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:27:14 PM »

Quote from: BerzerkFury on January 03, 2009, 12:37:02 PM

Ask yourself this question. If the situations were reversed and the Palestinians had the weaponry and Israel had the rocks and Qassam rockets, would it be any different?

You should stick to what you know and not go off into hypothetics, especially when talking about life and death situations. We all know that the only reasons the Israeli army embarks into these terrorist murder campaigns is to ellicit some type of response from its neighbors and has little to do with defending its territory. In fact they are looking to expand it.

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No. It would probably be worse. It's war.

This is no war. When did the Israeli state officially declare war on the Palestinian people (or viceversa)? This is just an outright massacre, a large-scale terrorist attack.

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Since when is it supposed to be fair? Has anyone in war throughout history said, "Oh wait, we're vastly superior to them. Let's throw down our weapons and use what they're using."

Well... yes, that is indeed the case (I don't understand why you would think otherwise... are you really that "behind"?). For example, we've got nukes... did we use them in Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan? No. Why? Because it wasn't necessary. The same way the Israeli army needs not to kill Palestinian civilians wholesale to get their point accross to the radicalized arm of Hamas. I mean Hamas and Al Fatah are rimming with Mossad operatives, who even know what hand the Hamas people wipe their asses with. So I do not get these violent outbursts of uncontrolled extermination.

Do you think Hamas or the Palestinians really pose a threat to the Israeli state? Do you really think so? I mean, it's like in the 80s and Reagan with the Nicaraguans: Ronald tried to make the point that they were a danger to national security... even though they only had 1 elevator and a helicopter to fight with. I think there is a very dark premise at play here and that is the Israeli army is totally submerged in an ethnic and religious clensing campaign.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #56 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:31:09 PM »

Hamas played with fire and got burned. Tough for them.

IFBBwannaB · « **Reply #57 on:** January 03, 2009, 09:23:17 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 03, 2009, 04:27:14 PM

You should stick to what you know and not go off into hypothetics, especially when talking about life and death situations. We all know that the only reasons the Israeli army embarks into these terrorist murder campaigns is to ellicit some type of response from its neighbors and has little to do with defending its territory. In fact they are looking to expand it.

This is no war. When did the Israeli state officially declare war on the Palestinian people (or viceversa)? This is just an outright massacre, a large-scale terrorist attack.

Well... yes, that is indeed the case (I don't understand why you would think otherwise... are you really that "behind"?). For example, we've got nukes... did we use them in Viet Nam or Iraq or Afghanistan? No. Why? Because it wasn't necessary. The same way the Israeli army needs not to kill Palestinian civilians wholesale to get their point accross to the radicalized arm of Hamas. I mean Hamas and Al Fatah are rimming with Mossad operatives, who even know what hand the Hamas people wipe their asses with. So I do not get these violent outbursts of uncontrolled extermination.

Do you think Hamas or the Palestinians really pose a threat to the Israeli state? Do you really think so? I mean, it's like in the 80s and Reagan with the Nicaraguans: Ronald tried to make the point that they were a danger to national security... even though they only had 1 elevator and a helicopter to fight with. I think there is a very dark premise at play here and that is the Israeli army is totally submerged in an ethnic and religious clensing campaign.

You're a fucking idiot who knows nothing, seriously , you have no idea what you're saying.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #58 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:17:33 AM »

Hamas does not want peace....they tell everyone who will listen that they want armed conflict with israel...arguing with muslims about this situation is useless..they will never see things objectively..they don't respect the rights and religions of others and they believe it's okay to convert others to Islam through murder....they really do believe that..even though they will deny it...but again..where are the protests about having freedom for palestinians???...where are the protests against violence???....where are the protests against their own leadership for leading them down the path of destruction???....

and the stupid palestinian leadership lets the other arab countries use them and the blood of their sons and daughters in the fight against Israel while they sit back and drink coffee in their palaces....this is so insane it's amazing!!!

Mars · « **Reply #59 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:52:27 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on January 04, 2009, 06:17:33 AM

Hamas does not want peace....they tell everyone who will listen that they want armed conflict with israel...arguing with muslims about this situation is useless..they will never see things objectively..they don't respect the rights and religions of others and they believe it's okay to convert others to Islam through murder....they really do believe that..even though they will deny it...but again..where are the protests about having freedom for palestinians???...where are the protests against violence???....where are the protests against their own leadership for leading them down the path of destruction???....

and the stupid palestinian leadership lets the other arab countries use them and the blood of their sons and daughters in the fight against Israel while they sit back and drink coffee in their palaces....this is so insane it's amazing!!!

sad but true.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #60 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:56:33 AM »

I said in an earlier post that even Bill Clinton blamed arafat for this entire mess when he rejected a deal that would have given the palis over 90% of what they wanted.

I have no sympathy for these barbarians. They brought this upon themselves.

Slapper · « **Reply #61 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:25:11 AM »

Quote from: IFBBwannaB on January 03, 2009, 09:23:17 PM

You're a fucking idiot who knows nothing, seriously , you have no idea what you're saying.

Dude, instead of insulting people why don't you just argument your point and force me to see "da light"... homothug!.

Slapper · « **Reply #62 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:34:25 AM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on January 04, 2009, 06:17:33 AM

Hamas does not want peace....they tell everyone who will listen that they want armed conflict with israel...arguing with muslims about this situation is useless..they will never see things objectively..they don't respect the rights and religions of others and they believe it's okay to convert others to Islam through murder....they really do believe that..even though they will deny it...but again..where are the protests about having freedom for palestinians???...where are the protests against violence???....where are the protests against their own leadership for leading them down the path of destruction???....

First, are you sure it's Hamas who do not want peace? Secondly, if Hamas is the problem, why murder Palestinian civilians? What is the Israeli army trying to accomplish with this? Note: I would ask the radicalized version of Hamas the same questions.

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and the stupid palestinian leadership lets the other arab countries use them and the blood of their sons and daughters in the fight against Israel while they sit back and drink coffee in their palaces....this is so insane it's amazing!!!

What is really amazing is how you can possibly say that Palestinians are being used by other Arab leaders. That takes some fucking lack of knowledge. The Palestinians are fighting for their territory. The help they get from the other Arab countries is secondary. The same stupidly idiotic argument could be used to say the same thing about Israelis serving their country and the help they get from the USA. The only difference being that their chances of dying is 5 times lower than that of their terrorist (or civilian) Palestinian counterparts.

Slapper · « **Reply #63 on:** January 04, 2009, 07:41:37 AM »

Quote from: 333386 on January 04, 2009, 06:56:33 AM

I said in an earlier post that even Bill Clinton blamed arafat for this entire mess when he rejected a deal that would have given the palis over 90% of what they wanted.

I have no sympathy for these barbarians. They brought this upon themselves.

Did you click on the youtube video?

The proposal WAS NOT REJECTED by Arafat. The proposal WAS WITHDRAWN by Sharon, who was the Israeli president at the time.

Can you read?

IFBBwannaB · « **Reply #64 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:05:59 AM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 07:25:11 AM

Dude, instead of insulting people why don't you just argument your point and force me to see "da light"... homothug!.

I can't argue with people who invent "facts" and completely deny the real ones.

So whats up in Allah world today? Bombed anyone today?

Slapper · « **Reply #65 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:33:38 AM »

Quote from: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 08:05:59 AM

I can't argue with people who invent "facts" and completely deny the real ones.

So whats up in Allah world today? Bombed anyone today?

And what facts might those be? The ones you do not like or the ones you ignore cause you lack the brain capacity for critical thinking (unless they're "watered down" for easy mental digestion)?

IFBBwannaB · « **Reply #66 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:58:15 AM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 08:33:38 AM

And what facts might those be? The ones you do not like or the ones you ignore cause you lack the brain capacity for critical thinking (unless they're "watered down" for easy mental digestion)?

I'm not going to review your posts, I got better things to do, I have debated your sorry ass before and you have proved to be a joke. Hence I no longer take you seriously or will spend any time to put any kind of effort to debtate you, like quoting your past posts.

Slapper · « **Reply #67 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:25:21 AM »

Quote from: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 08:58:15 AM

I'm not going to review your posts, I got better things to do, I have debated your sorry ass before and you have proved to be a joke. Hence I no longer take you seriously or will spend any time to put any kind of effort to debtate you, like quoting your past posts.

Ok. I'll take that as your way of saying "yes you're right".

Cheers.

IFBBwannaB · « **Reply #68 on:** January 04, 2009, 09:46:40 AM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 09:25:21 AM

Ok. I'll take that as your way of saying "yes you're right".

Cheers.

andreisdaman · « **Reply #69 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:21:36 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 07:34:25 AM

First, are you sure it's Hamas who do not want peace? Secondly, if Hamas is the problem, why murder Palestinian civilians? What is the Israeli army trying to accomplish with this? Note: I would ask the radicalized version of Hamas the same questions.

What is really amazing is how you can possibly say that Palestinians are being used by other Arab leaders. That takes some fucking lack of knowledge. The Palestinians are fighting for their territory. The help they get from the other Arab countries is secondary. The same stupidly idiotic argument could be used to say the same thing about Israelis serving their country and the help they get from the USA. The only difference being that their chances of dying is 5 times lower than that of their terrorist (or civilian) Palestinian counterparts.

Dude!!!!..what planet are you on???....how could you POSSIBLY ask me a question like "are you sure that it is Hamas that doesn't want peace?"...to even ask me that question shows you are either crazy or an apologist for Hamas big time....Hamas has said that they want the destruction of Israel and will settle for nothing less...where so you find a wish for peace within that statement???...The palestinian leadership are barbarains...lets be plain..I would have more respect for you if you admitted that Hamas wants the destruction of Israel and will settle for no less....CAN YOU AT LEAST BE HONEST HERE AND NOW AND ADMIT THIS???

STOP HIDING BEHIND NONSENSE AMBIVALENT STATEMENTS LIKE "HAMAS WANTS PEACE"...you tell me right now how do they want peace?..where are their proposals for peace???...they have never ever offered any....it has basically been the same thing over and over.."all jews must leave israel"..that's a wonderful starting point for negotiations huh?

yes the palestinians feel as if they are fighting for their territory....but they are committing suicide by blowing themselves up and by trying to make war with a power who is just as determined and more well-armed than they are....The other arabs have a grieevvvvvance against Israel and hate them as well..BUT..they are not stupid enough to get into armed conflict Israel..they sit back and let the palestinians do it for them....this way the arab countries can tell the world..."see how the israelis are treating arabs?..they are the true aggressors"....meanwhile it if PALESTINIAN blood which flows in the streets..the arabs are powerful enough with their oil wealth to help the palestinians more constructively and to stop them form killing themselves for nothing...but THEY JUST DON'T CARE....when are you going to realize this?

Slapper · « **Reply #70 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:06:00 PM »

Quote from: andreisdaman on January 04, 2009, 01:21:36 PM

Dude!!!!..what planet are you on???....how could you POSSIBLY ask me a question like "are you sure that it is Hamas that doesn't want peace?"

I am! How do you know Hamas does not want a peaceful solution to the problem? I'd be happy to know since NO ONE else out there really knows what Hamas wants to do except for you. I mean Hamas accepted a cease fire, a truce (which they later broke... but that is irrelevant).

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...to even ask me that question shows you are either crazy or an apologist for Hamas big time....Hamas has said that they want the destruction of Israel and will settle for nothing less...

Well, the UN was indeed tackling that very problem last November but the Israeli army decided to submit Gaza to another inhuman blockade.

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where so you find a wish for peace within that statement???...

Well, where do you find a wish for peace in Olmert's "liable to take longer than we can foresee at this moment" statement about the armed conflict?

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The palestinian leadership are barbarains...lets be plain

And what is the Israeli military? How do you measure babarianism? By the amount of people killed or the methods? Because I'll have you know that the Israeli army applies methods that are WAY more barbarian than the Hamas' bomb boys.

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I would have more respect for you

You don't have to have respect for me because you like or not like my opinion, you have to have respect for me because I am a human being after all.

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if you admitted that Hamas wants the destruction of Israel and will settle for no less....CAN YOU AT LEAST BE HONEST HERE AND NOW AND ADMIT THIS???

Well, the same way I can admit that the Israeli government wants the destruction of Palestine. Ask yourself this: Today, 2009, real terms not hypothetical, has the Israeli state been destroyed or has the Palestinian state been destroyed?

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STOP HIDING BEHIND NONSENSE AMBIVALENT STATEMENTS LIKE "HAMAS WANTS PEACE"...you tell me right now how do they want peace?

Well, they did agree to a prolongated cease fire, which is the pre-requisite to any talks.

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..where are their proposals for peace???...they have never ever offered any....it has basically been the same thing over and over.."all jews must leave israel"..that's a wonderful starting point for negotiations huh?

BUT THAT IS NOT TRUE! How can you say such things. I do remember reading in the NYT about Hamas accepting a peace conferece proposal (source[1],[2]). Hamas did indeed buckle on a couple of ocasions.

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yes the palestinians feel as if they are fighting for their territory....but they are committing suicide by blowing themselves up and by trying to make war with a power who is just as determined and more well-armed than they are....The other arabs have a grieevvvvvance against Israel and hate them as well..BUT..they are not stupid enough to get into armed conflict Israel..they sit back and let the palestinians do it for them....this way the arab countries can tell the world..."see how the israelis are treating arabs?..they are the true aggressors"....meanwhile it if PALESTINIAN blood which flows in the streets..the arabs are powerful enough with their oil wealth to help the palestinians more constructively and to stop them form killing themselves for nothing...but THEY JUST DON'T CARE....when are you going to realize this?

They are no longer blowing themselves up. The Israeli army is blowing them up.

IFBBwannaB · « **Reply #71 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:39:43 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 02:06:00 PM

Well, they did agree to a prolongated cease fire, which is the pre-requisite to any talks.

They are no longer blowing themselves up. The Israeli army is blowing them up.

1.The so called cease fire on Hamas terms included launching missiles and asking to open the borders so they can smuggle more missiles.

2.They no longer blow themself because of the border that was built and the blockades when there are terrorists alerts.

See...you and facts don't go well together $:-\$

Fury · « **Reply #72 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:42:00 PM »

There's been talk of putting monitors in Gaza after this shit settles down. Something that I think needs to be done.

Slapper · « **Reply #73 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:47:26 PM »

Quote from: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 02:39:43 PM

1.The so called cease fire on Hamas terms included launching missiles and asking to open the borders so they can smuggle more missiles.

2.They no longer blow themself because of the border that was built and the blockades when there are terrorists alerts.

See...you and facts don't go well together $:-\$

Did you click on the links?

IFBBwannaB · « **Reply #74 on:** January 04, 2009, 03:03:05 PM »

Quote from: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 02:47:26 PM

Did you click on the links?

Wow, 3 years ago Hamas was acting up, good thing it's now in the past and we know that all they wanted was some time to get weaponry and use it on defensless civilians.

Thanks for giving me more ammo and showing Hamas true face, got any more links?

How does it feel to be a pitiful loser? I want an expert opinion