Author Topic: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen  (Read 2090 times)

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MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« on: February 17, 2009, 10:09:52 PM »
MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen


I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."

tonymctones

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 10:32:46 PM »
MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen


I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."

I dont really like this imho you will have reporters politicize these images...the falling of a soldier is a personal matter with family and friends and shouldnt be made public unless the family deems it ok.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 10:47:54 PM »
MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets of soldiers killed in Iraq & Afghanistan be seen


I don't have a link. Jim Miklaszewski reported. "Now it appears that President Obama is willing to do that-to allow the American people to support and grieve for their fallen."


I'd prefer he just bring all the soilders back home and have the news take pictures of that. All these over extensions of resources are not helping the economy and it's been 8 years already. I don't hear many people talking about Bin Laden anymore, everyone's thinking about not losing their job, not some guy in a cave. I could be wrong, but how is seeing dead soilders coming back and another long drawn out war suppose to lift the spirits of Americans?

Isn't Bin Laden suppose to be dead anyway?  :-\

gcb

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 11:00:00 PM »
I dont really like this imho you will have reporters politicize these images...the falling of a soldier is a personal matter with family and friends and shouldnt be made public unless the family deems it ok.
Yes it was better when Bush was sweeping everything under the carpet.

Soul Crusher

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 06:22:55 AM »
Obama is already making Bush look like Ebineezer Scrooge.

tonymctones

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 06:45:50 AM »
Yes it was better when Bush was sweeping everything under the carpet.
bush was keeping a private event fuking private dumbass these soldiers should not be used for political gains which you know they will be.

headhuntersix

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 06:56:17 AM »
Nobody has the right to see these guys but the families...I hope the people at Dover do everything in their power to make sure the media does not get access. Obama officially became a scumbag.
L

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 06:57:10 AM »
bush was keeping a private event fuking private dumbass these soldiers should not be used for political gains which you know they will be.
seems you guys are saying he wants it both ways, I've heard he wants to escalate the war from you guys and now he wants to use them for political gain; the only political side to this is making the war more unpopular than it is and it ending.  So which is it, you can't have it both ways.

headhuntersix

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 07:04:28 AM »
He's sending more troops to Afghanistan.....so either he wants more dead soldiers to showcase or he's an incompetent moron. I vote number 2. I can only hope that most of the media will choose not to film. If these guys want access to the military they will respect the families.
L

headhuntersix

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 07:17:48 AM »
John Barry..Newsweek


I saw the coffins arrive by accident. I was at Dover Air Force Base a couple of years ago pursuing another story on my Pentagon beat, and a senior Air Force officer took me to watch the giant C-17 arrive and discharge its melancholy cargo. The scene was off the record; no press or photographers allowed. As I recall, there were six coffins and a few small clumps of civilians to receive them. One by one the flag-draped coffins slid down from the nose of the cargo plane, and one by one the coffins were shepherded by an honor guard—a half dozen soldiers in dress uniforms and white gloves—to waiting hearses. One or two elderly people wept; everyone else was stoical. There were no bugles. No bands. There was no pageantry—just the heavy tread of the honor guard in a ritual perfected through much repetition. It was an event so moving in its intimacy and restraint, out there on the acres of concrete, that I felt an intruder. I was glad there were no waiting cameras and flashbulbs.

Last week President Obama was asked if he'd reverse the ban on media at Dover. Somewhat haltingly, he announced that he was reviewing the policy and, sure enough, Defense Secretary Robert Gates confirmed that he'd launched a review the instant he heard President Obama's remarks. A congressman, Walter Jones of North Carolina, has introduced a bill to lift the press ban, and there is a widespread feeling that cameras should be allowed to witness the returning coffins as a way of reminding the public of the cost of war.

In truth, it's not an easy issue. It never has been. For many years, dead soldiers were buried where they fell, or close to, at home or abroad. Arlington National Cemetery got its start as an act of vengeance: it was the site of a family home of the Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, and a Union general, tasked with burying the Union dead, supposedly said, "We'll plant them in Bobby Lee's front lawn." It wasn't until the Korean War that the United States started routinely shipping bodies home. The Dover ceremony became familiar to the public in the 1980s, in part because President Reagan was such an affecting figure mourning the dead as they were returned from Lebanon or other locations where U.S. soldiers were dying. On the eve of ground combat in the first Gulf war in 1991, the administration of George H.W. Bush grappled with a grisly question: war planners were expecting so many combat fatalities that they worried that the military would have to use forklifts and pallets at Dover. President Bush instituted the camera ban, which persists to this day.

The military loves rules, and the Army's Regulation 638-2 covering "Care and Disposition of Remains and Disposition of Personal Effects" runs to 147 dense pages. Something called "Timeline: Death Cases" lists 16 steps, from the first frantic message that a soldier is dead to helping the bereaved family apply for benefits. Dover is step six: "Remains shipped to preparing mortuary." Dover houses one of the military's two mortuaries (the other is at Travis Air Force Base in California). Dead soldiers, their bodies sometimes torn and bloody from the battlefield, are packed in ice, placed in a casket and flown directly to Dover, where they are cared for. Then the body is sent on to the soldier's hometown for a military funeral—with plenty of publicity if the family wishes to allow it.

The military's aim is to move the bodies from the battlefield to Dover in two days. If cameras are present to greet the caskets, there will be a great deal of pressure on the families to be there, too—an emotional and financial hardship for many. Some may want a public ceremony; some may want privacy and silence. Is there a better way to honor their privacy and meet their needs while making sure the public is reminded of the price of war? Canada may have an answer. The more than 100 Canadian soldiers who have fallen in combat in Afghanistan have been flown to Trenton air base, then driven 107 miles to the mortuary in Toronto. A stretch of Canada's Highway 401 has become known as the Highway of Heroes. When the military hearse drives down it, all other traffic is blocked; police and fire trucks, lights flashing, line each overpass, and hundreds of Canadians, flags in hand, wait along the highway. Perhaps fallen American soldiers could arrive at Andrews Air Force Base— with the sort of quiet, dignified ceremony I chanced to witness—and then be carried by hearse (anonymously; no family need be present) to the mortuary at Dover, 102 miles away by road and highway. The route could pass by the White House.

L

Soul Crusher

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 07:17:55 AM »
I still have no freaking clue why we are fighting in Afganistan if we are not shoring up our border, deporting illegals,
going after visa overstays from the ME, etc.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 07:23:37 AM »
Nobody has the right to see these guys but the families...I hope the people at Dover do everything in their power to make sure the media does not get access. Obama officially became a scumbag.
well, I assume you're extending the scumbag rating to Reagan, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Carter.

headhuntersix

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 07:27:25 AM »
911 was launched from Afghanistan....Bush wanted to crush the AQ camps and defeat the Taliban which sheltered them. Thats been accomplished, however the Taliban are in the Pakistani border regions and AQ has fled Iraq and regrouped there. Now we're basically stomping on them when they raise there head. Its not an easy process.

I don't agree at all that the media needs to be present. Further, we weren't at war under Reagan and the times he went to Dover and met caskets, it was a big deal..ie Marine barracks in Leb... I think kennedy was an idiot as well as Johnson. Nixon ended Vietnam..and the number one reason u can't compare the two....is that we exist in a 24 hour news cycle, the left wing media has no shame and would be camped out at Dover if Bush was still president. I have no doubt scumbags from the Daily Kos would film caskets.
L

tonymctones

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 07:41:48 AM »
seems you guys are saying he wants it both ways, I've heard he wants to escalate the war from you guys and now he wants to use them for political gain; the only political side to this is making the war more unpopular than it is and it ending.  So which is it, you can't have it both ways.
i never said he i said they as in the media...this is a private matter wouldnt you agree? these fallen soldiers are the fathers, sons, friends off ppl here in the US and to have their deaths and pictures/videos of their caskets politicized which you know they will be is just fuking wrong plain and simple. We already know when our soldiers fall in iraq or afghanistan their is no need to broadcast their caskets, simply poor taste.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 08:10:18 AM »
i never said he i said they as in the media...this is a private matter wouldnt you agree? these fallen soldiers are the fathers, sons, friends off ppl here in the US and to have their deaths and pictures/videos of their caskets politicized which you know they will be is just fuking wrong plain and simple. We already know when our soldiers fall in iraq or afghanistan their is no need to broadcast their caskets, simply poor taste.
Showing them coming home with the flag draped over the coffin isn't disrespectful imo.  You guys are acting like they want media access to the funeral.  If you guys want a bitch, get that anti-gay tard that shows up at the funerals stopped.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 08:14:04 AM »
911 was launched from Afghanistan....Bush wanted to crush the AQ camps and defeat the Taliban which sheltered them. Thats been accomplished, however the Taliban are in the Pakistani border regions and AQ has fled Iraq and regrouped there. Now we're basically stomping on them when they raise there head. Its not an easy process.

I don't agree at all that the media needs to be present. Further, we weren't at war under Reagan and the times he went to Dover and met caskets, it was a big deal..ie Marine barracks in Leb... I think kennedy was an idiot as well as Johnson. Nixon ended Vietnam..and the number one reason u can't compare the two....is that we exist in a 24 hour news cycle, the left wing media has no shame and would be camped out at Dover if Bush was still president. I have no doubt scumbags from the Daily Kos would film caskets.
I don't know whatever you want to call what Reagan did in Latin America but it looked like war to me.   

tonymctones

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 08:15:35 AM »
Showing them coming home with the flag draped over the coffin isn't disrespectful imo.  You guys are acting like they want media access to the funeral.  If you guys want a bitch, get that anti-gay tard that shows up at the funerals stopped.
that isnt necissarily what im bitching about although i feel it should be up to the individuals family whether or not they show them. Its the fact which you cant deny that these pics/vids will be used in a political arena, you and i know it and so does obama but he said ok anyway. If this pics/vids where to be kept in somber repsect and rememberance of the individual id have less of a problem with it but again you know i know and so does obama that this wont happen and he said ok anyway.

headhuntersix

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 08:16:57 AM »
The media want to show the "cost of war" yeah ok.....I trust the media to do the right thing. This is a political tool for Obama because Dems would rather talk and appease, rather then take action. Obama wants out of Afghanistan because he has to rely on what his generals say as opposed to some political hack from Chicago. He's waaay outside his comfort zone. This should be a non-issue.


Latin America was a shadow war....and off the books. Its really doesn't matter what Reagan did, we're talking now, with the net and cable news and blogs etc....media coverage is much much different.
L

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 08:23:25 AM »
that isnt necissarily what im bitching about although i feel it should be up to the individuals family whether or not they show them. Its the fact which you cant deny that these pics/vids will be used in a political arena, you and i know it and so does obama but he said ok anyway. If this pics/vids where to be kept in somber repsect and rememberance of the individual id have less of a problem with it but again you know i know and so does obama that this wont happen and he said ok anyway.
well, if you want to talk about using troops for politics, Bush mastered it and that's wrong!  You're flipping out over flagged draped coffins coming home.  I can't even see the disrespect in that.  There is no political advantage for Obama if he's going to escalate the war like several righties are saying.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2009, 08:24:44 AM »
The media want to show the "cost of war" yeah ok.....I trust the media to do the right thing. This is a political tool for Obama because Dems would rather talk and appease, rather then take action. Obama wants out of Afghanistan because he has to rely on what his generals say as opposed to some political hack from Chicago. He's waaay outside his comfort zone. This should be a non-issue.


Latin America was a shadow war....and off the books. Its really doesn't matter what Reagan did, we're talking now, with the net and cable news and blogs etc....media coverage is much much different.
what?  I thought you were saying Obama is going to escalate the war?  Which is it?  The angle that works for the thread title?

tonymctones

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2009, 08:26:59 AM »
well, if you want to talk about using troops for politics, Bush mastered it and that's wrong!  You're flipping out over flagged draped coffins coming home.  I can't even see the disrespect in that.  There is no political advantage for Obama if he's going to escalate the war like several righties are saying.
how did bush politicize the death of our soldiers? There is for him and his ideology of appeasment isnt there?

Again you are missing the point the disrespect isnt necissarily in showing the caskets it will be in the politicizing of the deaths and using the pics/vids that you know will happen that would only be possible through obamas letting it.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2009, 08:36:44 AM »
how did bush politicize the death of our soldiers? There is for him and his ideology of appeasment isnt there?

Again you are missing the point the disrespect isnt necissarily in showing the caskets it will be in the politicizing of the deaths and using the pics/vids that you know will happen that would only be possible through obamas letting it.
Don't change what I said.  read again, I didn't say "death of."

tonymctones

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2009, 08:51:46 AM »
Don't change what I said.  read again, I didn't say "death of."
i didnt change it jack ass i thought thats what you where implying...

everybody politicized troops obama did it with his campaign his inaugural ball... ::)

This is a different topic and since you havent denied it you know that this images will be used for political use. Obama knows this and is ok with it personally i think its complete shit and that it should be kept private as it is a private matter.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2009, 08:59:17 AM »
i didnt change it jack ass i thought thats what you where implying...

everybody politicized troops obama did it with his campaign his inaugural ball... ::)

This is a different topic and since you havent denied it you know that this images will be used for political use. Obama knows this and is ok with it personally i think its complete shit and that it should be kept private as it is a private matter.
yes you did.  you changed what I said.  I was talking about the troops and Bush did plenty of politicising of and around the troops.  That is wrong imo. 

I haven't denied it?  What?  First I want you righties to get your story straight.  He's going to end the war by polilticising flag covered caskets or he's going to escalate the war, which is it?  I'm not saying you said it, but I'm getting two messages from the right on this, now which is it?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: MSNBC just reported that Obama will let the caskets be seen
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2009, 09:16:40 AM »
The nation needs to see the coffins to realize the extent and cost of Bush's lies and deception over Iraq. 

But hey, his idea was "out of sight, out of mind" huh?  Now Obama is delivering the news that there is a real cost to this bullshit that Bush started and failed at.