Author Topic: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving  (Read 29694 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #150 on: July 07, 2011, 02:33:33 PM »
BB... Always right, never wrong... ::)

He's so special perfect...

Roger Bacon

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #151 on: July 07, 2011, 02:40:33 PM »
You could tell Beach that shit is brown and he would disagree...   ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #152 on: July 07, 2011, 02:45:11 PM »
It's not entirely different and here's why.

Yes... because there is a study posted in this very thread that states that people on cell phones are just as dangerous as drunk drivers.

So I'm asking if you believe that drunk drivers are dangerous and should be stopped.

If you answer yes, then you are agreeing that people on cell phones should be stopped as well... because they pose the same danger to the public.

So Beach... How are these things unrelated? I await your response.

I don't think cell phone drivers are just as dangerous as drunk drivers.  Did I post that one?  lol  If I did, I certainly don't agree with that study.   


Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #153 on: July 07, 2011, 03:21:40 PM »
You did not... but why would you disagree with the study?

Do you have some basis or are you disagreeing just to be disagreeable?

Driver inattentiveness is commonly known as the number 1 reason car crashes occur... MUCH higher than driving under the influence.

Obviously if you are texting on your cell phone you are not being attentive to the process of driving an automobile.

Are you talking about texting or talking?  Big difference.  I agree that texting while driving is very dangerous.  Talking on a cell is not and poses no greater risk than using a bluetooth.   

I disagree that driving while drunk is just as dangerous as driving while talking on a cell because it doesn't make any dang sense.  Nothing more than that. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #154 on: July 07, 2011, 03:26:16 PM »
So you just have your "belief".

Gotcha...

Also to note, the same study also showed that talking on the phone was almost just as dangerous because you are still being "inattentive" to the process of driving.



Yes, my belief, my opinion, whatever you want to call it. 

I haven't read the study, but using a bluetooth is talking on the phone.  How is that any different than using a hand-held cell, especially if most drivers only drive with one hand? 

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #155 on: July 07, 2011, 05:10:02 PM »
Read the study... I'll let you decide on your own.

However... a snippet.

Key Findings: Different Driving Styles, Similar Impairment

Each of the study"s 40 participants “drove” a PatrolSim driving simulator four times: once each while undistracted, using a handheld cell phone, using a hands-free cell phone and while intoxicated to the 0.08 percent blood-alcohol level after drinking vodka and orange juice. Participants followed a simulated pace car that braked intermittently.

Both handheld and hands-free cell phones impaired driving, with no significant difference in the degree of impairment. That “calls into question driving regulations that prohibited handheld cell phones and permit hands-free cell phones,” the researchers write.

The study found that compared with undistracted drivers:

    Motorists who talked on either handheld or hands-free cell phones drove slightly slower, were 9 percent slower to hit the brakes, displayed 24 percent more variation in following distance as their attention switched between driving and conversing, were 19 percent slower to resume normal speed after braking and were more likely to crash. Three study participants rear-ended the pace car. All were talking on cell phones. None were drunk.

    Drivers drunk at the 0.08 percent blood-alcohol level drove a bit more slowly than both undistracted drivers and drivers using cell phones, yet more aggressively. They followed the pace car more closely, were twice as likely to brake only four seconds before a collision would have occurred, and hit their brakes with 23 percent more force. “Neither accident rates, nor reaction times to vehicles braking in front of the participant, nor recovery of lost speed following braking differed significantly” from undistracted drivers, the researchers write.


Interesting.  If accurate, it confirms what I've been saying about there being no difference between talking on a cell vs. a bluetooth. 

Not sure if .08 is a good measure.  I wonder how many people get into accidents with a .08.  I'd think it's people who are at 2.0 and above that cause most of the DUI accidents (but I'm guessing). 

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #156 on: July 07, 2011, 05:16:00 PM »
Well every state uses .08 as the measure... If you are at .08 you get a DUI.

So your opinion is unchanged in the matter of cell phone usage and the law?

I know the know the standard is .08, just saying I don't think people driving with a .08 are the causing most of the accidents. 

No, I haven't changed my mind about cell phones being banned.  Hate it. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #157 on: July 07, 2011, 06:04:18 PM »
You are very much the hypocrite then... Everyone can see this.

lol.  Ok.   :)

Where are the studies showing cell phone use causes the same number of accidents and has the same impact on taxpayers as the dummies who ride with no helmet? 

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #158 on: July 07, 2011, 08:52:08 PM »
After reading this study here is why I don't feel it s very conclusive:
Cell phone driving has been prevalent for over 10 years in the USA.  In this study 40 people were tested on simulators by psychologists.  This seems like a very poorly conducted test by people who I question to have the expertise to conduct a tst like this.  Why psychologists?  Was it only psychologists?  Should there have been other scientists, doctors and or engineers invovled in this? And why teachers? Why simulators?  Has anyone ever tried to drive a simulator?  I know it's is no where the same as driving in real life because it is not 3D and the vision is not the same.  BB is right about the legal limit.  You all know .08 is total bullshit.  It's there because the low limit helps prevent people from rationalizing drinking and driving.
So no, this seems like a spun bullshit test because they took 40 people on a simulator and compared it to drunk driving based on the limit.  Basically scaring people into thinking cell phone drivers are like drunk drivers who kill people. spin for sure by those who did it.  How about statistics that show the accident rate for only people who drove with .08 in there blood?


Here's what I am looking for:  actual data from actual drivers and not 40 on a simulator, more like 2000 to 5000 to get a more accurate conclusion.  

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #159 on: July 07, 2011, 08:56:44 PM »
Agreed... which is why they say if you have it in your hands, it's illegal.

One would be reasonable to assume that if you've got it in your hands, you are reading it.

How could a person be reading it if it's next to his ear when he's talking on it?

Texting on cell phone and taking on a cell are 2 entirely different things.

OzmO

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2011, 09:16:04 PM »
Here's other questions about the test.  Did they test 40 people on the simulator with out cell phones and with out drinking to .08?

Did they test the same 40 for both?  Or were they 2 different groups of 40?

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #161 on: July 08, 2011, 11:41:48 AM »
They are... and I was confusing two separate points really.

The study is simply about talking and driving, while Beach's complaint is about him not being able to text on his phone.

My point was that if talking on the phone is as bad as being legally unable to drive a car, then obviously texting would be worse and you would be less attentive.

Also, the law that Beach is pissed about says if you are seen even holding a phone you can be charged... My point was that if you are holding a cell phone you are using it in some capacity either way.

I guess I just took it for granted that it's a scientific study so they used the same people... Perhaps they didn't, but I would think that would be in the study itself, not just the report.

I think .08 is bullshit too... as a matte of fact I HATE DUI laws... and Cell Phone Laws and Helmet laws and seatbelt laws.

MY point is that Beach is a total hypocrite because he hates these cell phone laws, but thinks DUI laws are fine, and that Helmet laws and Seat Belt laws are ok too.

Complete bullshit from the Beach Bum on this one.

I never complained about not being to text while driving.   ::)  I complained about not being able to talk on my cell while driving.  Big difference. 

Cell phone laws aren't in the same universe as DUI laws, nor are the dangers associated with people who talk on a cell versus drink drivers.  Absurd comparison. 

And I still haven't seen studies showing comparable cell phone accident, healthcare, and tax studies with the failure to wear a helmet. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #162 on: July 08, 2011, 07:52:57 PM »
Funny how the study did JUST THAT... Oh right... You "believe" it's not true, so it must not be.

::) (appropriate use of rolling eyes here)

Also, you also complained about not being able to hold your cell phone... Well, if you're texting at a light (as you've stated you do) then you might impede the flow of traffic by not moving when the light turns green. You know, you're not watching the light when you're typing on your phone.

Do you even have tax studies to show how much it costs the tax payers for not using a helmet anyway?

I mean, I pay taxes... way too many... So if I don't wear a helmet and I die... and my insurance covers everything, haven't I, as a taxpayer, already paid to clean my brains up off the pavement already?

No, the excerpt you posted did not show "comparable cell phone accident, healthcare, and tax studies with the failure to wear a helmet."

I posted some information in the helmet thread about the costs associated with lack of helmet use.  I have yet to see comparable studies involving people who talk on their cell while driving.   ::) 

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #163 on: July 10, 2011, 03:06:43 PM »
Because that's not what you said... You said.

And the study did exactly THAT.

You are now saying that you want a study that compares "comparable cell phone accident, healthcare, and tax studies with the failure to wear a helmet."

Well, when that study is done, fine... but it doesn't exist yet.

None the less, YOU sir are a hypocrite of the finest order... You want to tell other people what they can and can't do, right up until someone tells you something that YOU don't agree with. You want to "save people from themselves for the public good" right up until the point where someone does it to you.

You are a hypocrite... That's ok.

Everyone who reads this will know.

Hypocrite Bum.

The worst part is that you are just unwilling to admit that you're wrong even when I think deep down you know you stepped in it, but instead of just saying "yes... I guess so", you will fight and fight and fight just to be "right."

It's pretty sad really.

What the heck are you babbling about??  There is no study that shows comparable accident, healthcare, cost, etc. involving lack of helmet use versus cell phone use.  The excerpt you posted doesn't do any such thing.   ::)  Like I said, if you have one you'd like to share, I'll read it. 

And I'm not fighting for anything.  Just responding to some dumb questions, involving absurd comparisons.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #164 on: July 10, 2011, 08:57:30 PM »
You can't be this big of an idiot where you don't even realize what you said... You are simply trying to cover up.

If you are THIS stupid, then I can't believe I haven't noticed before now.

RE-READ what you fucking posted you idiot.

Nah.  I know what I posted.  And I know what you posted.  If you have relevant a study, I'll read it.  If not, quit crying about it.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #165 on: July 10, 2011, 09:27:44 PM »
Here is some information I posted in the motorcycle helmet thread about the impact of non-helmet use and the adoption of helmet laws.  I haven't read anything comparable about the impact of cell phone use and the adoption of cell phone/driving laws. 

How do helmet use laws impact health care costs?

    Unhelmeted riders have higher health care costs as a result of their crash injuries, and many lack health insurance. In November 2002, NHTSA reported that 25 studies of the costs of injuries from motorcycle crashes "consistently found that helmet use reduced the fatality rate, probability and severity of head injuries, cost of medical treatment, length of hospital stay, necessity for special medical treatments, and probability of long-term disability. A number of studies examined the question of who pays for medical costs. Only slightly more than half of motorcycle crash victims have private health insurance coverage. For patients without private insurance, a majority of medical costs are paid by the government."24

    Among the specific findings of several of the studies:

        * A 1996 NHTSA study showed average inpatient hospital charges for unhelmeted motorcyclists in crashes were 8 percent higher than for helmeted riders ($15,578 compared with $14,377).25
        * After California introduced a helmet use law in 1992, studies showed a decline in health care costs associated with head-injured motorcyclists. The rate of motorcyclists hospitalized for head injuries decreased by 48 percent in 1993 compared with 1991, and total costs for patients with head injuries decreased by $20.5 million during this period.26
        * A study of the effects of Nebraska's reinstated helmet use law on hospital costs found the total acute medical charges for injured motorcyclists declined 38 percent.17

    A NHTSA evaluation of the weakening of Florida's universal helmet law in 2000 to exclude riders 21 and older who have at least $10,000 of medical insurance coverage found a huge increase in hospital admissions of cyclists with injuries to the head, brain, and skull. Such injuries went up 82 percent during the 30 months immediately following the law change. The average inflation-adjusted cost of treating these injuries went up from about $34,500 before the helmet law was weakened to nearly $40,000 after. Less than one-quarter of the injured motorcyclists' hospital bills would have been covered by the $10,000 medical insurance requirement for riders who chose not to use helmets.11

    Studies conducted in Nebraska, Washington, California, and Massachusetts indicate how injured motorcyclists burden taxpayers. Forty-one percent of motorcyclists injured in Nebraska from January 1988 to January 1990 lacked health insurance or received Medicaid or Medicare.17 In Seattle, 63 percent of trauma care for injured motorcyclists in 1985 was paid by public funds.27 In Sacramento, public funds paid 82 percent of the costs to treat orthopedic injuries sustained by motorcyclists during 1980-83.28 Forty-six percent of motorcyclists treated at Massachusetts General Hospital during 1982-83 were uninsured.29

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/helmet_use.html

Dos Equis

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #166 on: December 13, 2011, 11:44:32 AM »
Brilliant. 

NTSB recommends ban on driver cell phone use
By Joan Lowy
Associated Press
POSTED: 04:44 a.m. HST, Dec 13, 2011

WASHINGTON >> States should ban all driver use of cell phones and other portable electronic devices, except in emergencies, the National Transportation Board said Tuesday.

The recommendation, unanimously agreed to by the five-member board, applies to both hands-free and hand-held phones and significantly exceeds any existing state laws restricting texting and cellphone use behind the wheel.

The board made the recommendation in connection with a deadly highway pileup in Missouri last year. The board said the initial collision in the accident near Gray Summit, Mo., was caused by the inattention of a 19 year-old-pickup driver who sent or received 11 texts in the 11 minutes immediately before the crash.

The pickup, traveling at 55 mph, collided into the back of a tractor truck that had slowed for highway construction. The pickup was rear-ended by a school bus that overrode the smaller vehicle. A second school bus rammed into the back of the first bus.

The pickup driver and a 15-year-old student on one of the school buses were killed. Thirty-eight other people were injured in the Aug. 5, 2010, accident near Gray Summit, Mo.

About 50 students, mostly members of a high school band from St. James, Mo., were on the buses heading to the Six Flags St. Louis amusement park.

The accident is a "big red flag for all drivers," NTSB chairman Deborah Hersman said at a meeting to determine the cause of the accident and make safety recommendations.

It's not possible to know from cell phone records if the driver was typing, reaching for the phone or reading a text at the time of the crash, but it's clear he was manually, cognitively and visually distracted, she said.

"Driving was not his only priority," Hersman said. "No call, no text, no update is worth a human life."

The board is expected to recommend new restrictions on driver use of electronic devices behind the wheel. While the NTSB doesn't have the power to impose restrictions, it's recommendations carry significant weight with federal regulators and congressional and state lawmakers.

Missouri had a law banning drivers under 21 years old from texting while driving at the time of the crash, but wasn't aggressively enforcing the ban, board member Robert Sumwalt said.

"Without the enforcement, the laws don't mean a whole lot," he said.

Investigators are seeing texting, cell phone calls and other distracting behavior by operators in accidents across all modes of transportation with increasing frequency. It has become routine for investigators to immediately request the preservation of cell phone and texting records when they launch an investigation.

In the last few years the board has investigated a commuter rail accident that killed 25 people in California in which the train engineer was texting; a fatal marine accident in Philadelphia in which a tugboat pilot was talking on his cellphone and using a laptop; and a Northwest Airlines flight that flew more than 100 miles past its destination because both pilots were working on their laptops.

The board has previously recommended bans on texting and cell phone use by commercial truck and bus drivers and beginning drivers, but it has stopped short of calling for a ban on the use of the devices by adults behind the wheel of passenger cars.

The problem of texting while driving is getting worse despite a rush by states to ban the practice, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said last week. In November, Pennsylvania became the 35th state to forbid texting while driving.

About two out of 10 American drivers overall — and half of drivers between 21 and 24 — say they've thumbed messages or emailed from the driver's seat, according to a survey of more than 6,000 drivers by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

And what's more, many drivers don't think it's dangerous when they do it — only when others do, the survey found.

At any given moment last year on America's streets and highways, nearly 1 in every 100 car drivers was texting, emailing, surfing the Web or otherwise using a handheld electronic device, the safety administration said. And those activities spiked 50 percent over the previous year.

The agency takes an annual snapshot of drivers' behavior behind the wheel by staking out intersections to count people using cellphones and other devices, as well as other distracting behavior.

Driver distraction wasn't the only significant safety problem uncovered by NTSB's investigation of the Missouri accident. Investigators said they believe the pickup driver was suffering from fatigue that may have eroded his judgment at the time of the accident. He had an average of about five and a half hours of sleep a night in the days leading up to the accident and had had fewer than five hours of sleep the night before the accident, they said.

The pickup driver had no history of accidents or traffic violations, investigators said.

Investigators also found significant problems with the brakes of both school buses involved in the accident. A third school bus sent to a hospital after the accident to pick up students crashed in the hospital parking lot when that bus' brakes failed.

However, the brake problems didn't cause or contribute to the severity of the accident, investigators said.

Another issue involved the difficulty passengers had exiting the first school bus after the accident. The bus' front and rear bus doors were unusable after the accident — the front door because the front bus was on top of the tractor truck cab and too high off the ground, and the rear door because the front of the bus had intruded five feet into the rear of the first bus.

Passengers had to exit through an emergency window, but the raised latch on the window kept catching on clothing as students tried to escape, investigators said. Exiting was further slowed because the window design required one person to hold the window up in order for a second person to crawl through, they said.

It was critical for passengers to exit as quickly as possible because a large amount of fuel puddled underneath the bus was a serious fire hazard, investigators said.

"It could have been a much worse situation if there was a fire," Donald Karol, the NTSB's highway safety director, said.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/135504458.html?id=135504458

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #167 on: December 13, 2011, 11:53:29 AM »
I'm so fucking sick of this garbage admn its not funny.   

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #168 on: April 27, 2012, 09:17:43 AM »
 >:(

Obama Administration Seeks National Ban on Cell Phone Use While Driving
Thursday, 26 Apr 2012

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood called on Thursday for a federal law to ban talking on a cell phone or texting while driving any type of vehicle on any road in the country.

Tough federal legislation is the only way to deal with what he called a "national epidemic," he said at a distracted-driving summit in San Antonio, Texas, that drew doctors, advocates and government officials.

LaHood said it is important for the police to have "the opportunity to write tickets when people are foolishly thinking they can drive safely or use a cell phone and text and drive."

LaHood has previously criticized behind-the-wheel use of cell phones and other devices, but calling for a federal law prohibiting the practice takes his effort to a new level.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 3,000 fatal traffic accidents nationwide last year were the result of distracted driving. Using a cell phone while driving delays reaction time the same amount as having a blood alcohol concentration of .08, the legal limit, the highway agency said.

But Gary Biller, president of the National Motorists Association, said laws banning specific actions like talking on a phone or texting are not necessary because those actions are already covered by existing distracted-driving laws. It would be more productive, he said, to invest resources in campaigns that discourage inattentive driving in general.

"It shouldn't matter if the driver is distracted by a conversation with another vehicle passenger, tuning the radio, eating a snack, or talking on a cell phone," Biller said in a statement. "Existing laws cover all those distractions and more."

LaHood said, however, he was not as concerned about people who eat, apply makeup, or perform other distracting activities in cars because "not everyone does that."

"But everyone has a cell phone and too many of us think it is OK to talk on our phones while we are driving," he said at the summit, sponsored by insurance company USAA, the Texas Department of Transportation and Shriners Hospitals for Children.

LaHood was joined by people who have been hurt in accidents caused by motorists talking on cell phones, including children in wheelchairs who were paralyzed. Such accidents are "100 percent preventable," he said.

He compared the situation facing the United States today with the problem of drunk driving 20-30 years ago.

"It used to be that if an officer pulled you over for drunk driving, he would pat you on the back, maybe call you a cab or take you home, but he wouldn't arrest you," LaHood said. "Now that has changed, and the same enforcement can work for people who talk on cell phones while driving."

Thirty-eight states have laws restricting or outlawing the use of electronic devices while driving, LaHood said.

LaHood said his department was researching the effect that hands-free devices and new systems like Ford Motor Company's Sync have on distracting drivers. He said he has called the CEOs of major car companies and encouraged them to "think twice" before placing too many Internet-based systems into new cars.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/lahood-ban-cell-phones/2012/04/26/id/437254

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #169 on: April 27, 2012, 09:22:58 AM »
This communist marxist dictator wants to runs everyones lives from cradle to grave from the moment we wake to the time we sleep. 


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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #170 on: April 27, 2012, 12:14:07 PM »
What do you guys think of DUI laws?

They are the same thing.

interesting analogy there.  I drive a lot and all day long, it's idiots drifting out of their lanes while they text. 

maybe just make it so that if you're caught texting, you lose your license... i know a DUI costs a person in FL 8 to 10k and they don't drive for a year.

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #171 on: April 28, 2012, 02:14:28 AM »
what is broad about that.  Sounds good to me.  Find something that fits holding an "electronic device" that you think it's ok to drive and use?  Can you name one thing?

You need to learn to read Hugo. The text in question is "Under the new bill, an officer only needs to see a driver holding an electronic device while driving to issue a citation." Holding and using are two very different things and you can hold an electronic device without using it, just like you can hold a cup of coffee without drinking from it. Words have meaning Hugo.

And yes, I can come up with a number of electronic devices that are OK to drive and use. Off the top of my head, I'll say clicker/garage door opener is one such electronic device; a car radio is another such electronic device. HELL, THE WHOLE FUCKING CAR COULD EVEN QUALIFY AS ELECTRONIC DEVICE.

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #172 on: April 28, 2012, 09:08:56 AM »
maybe they just start nailing people harder for breaking the existing law.

for example, if a police camera catches you drifting lanes and sees you on that phone while doing it - you lose your license 3 months - no questions asked.

it'll take a few people taking the bus for 12 weeks for everyone else to realize "wow, i'd better not do this..."

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #173 on: April 29, 2012, 08:07:30 AM »
How bout talking in the car to other passengers  with both hands in the wheel?  Should that be next? ::)

Fucking lame.

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Re: Council votes to ban use of cell phones while driving
« Reply #174 on: April 29, 2012, 09:26:50 AM »
Maybe driving tests should be more difficult, for example, the cdl test, make everybody pass that test, minus the part covering air brakes. That would probably get rid oh half of the idiot drivers in this country.
down with hussein