Author Topic: Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest  (Read 6516 times)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest
Hudson New York ^ | August 23, 2010 | Gabriel Scheinmann


________________________ ________________________ ____________

Behind the real issue behind the controversy that has erupted over plans to build a 15-story cultural center, mosque and madrassa a few yards from Ground Zero is not only about the mysterious funding behind the Cordoba Center initiative, or whether or not its founders and backers have malign intentions. It is primarily about understanding how Muslims across the world, in particular Islamists, would view the conversion of the site of the greatest Muslim attack on U.S. soil into a Muslim house of worship. Given the long history of mosque-building following Muslim military victories, the building of the Cordoba House on Ground Zero will be seen in the same light as the Muslim conquests of Mecca, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. Whereas Americans hope that the attacks on New York City and Washington are seen as the clarion's call for aggressive American action to counter Islamist ideology, the construction of the Ground Zero Mosque will be seen by the same Islamists as its first step towards the decline of America.

Bin Laden and his Islamists would love nothing better to plant the flag of Islam in the cultural capital of the West. This would not be read in the Muslim world as a sign of the West's tolerance, but of its weakness. In its long history of conquest, Islam has habitually converted the scared shrines of its enemies into mosques and madrasas. A cursory look at the world's most famous mosques lays bare the fact that many were former houses of worships of defeated enemies.

Islam's most sacred site, al-Kaaba, in Mecca was a pagan shrine that predated Islam by hundreds of years. Mohammed himself, after his army's conquest of Mecca in 630, destroyed hundreds of idols, proclaiming the truth of his new religion, and, since, it has become the hub of the annual Muslim pilgrimage, hajj, and a core pillar of Islam. Following the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, the Ummayad Caliphate proceeded to build the Dome of the Rock, the Masjid Qubat al-Sakhra, on top of the Jewish Temple Mount in 689. Inscribed on the inner walls of the shrine are clear warnings to Christianity, professing Islamic supremacy. Sprawled on the inner octagonal arcade, flowing counterclockwise, the dedication warns Christians and Jews to "not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth" and threatens the Christian Trinity by insisting that "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God."[1] Whoever believes that God had a son, "whoso disbelieveth the revelations of God (will find that) lo! God is swift at reckoning!"[2] Having defeated their Christian enemies, the Umayyads built a grand mosque on top of Judaism's most sacred site that contained a clear declaration of Muslim supremacy over their brother Abrahamic religions.

Similar conversions were ordered as the Muslim conquests expanded across Africa and Europe. The Grand Mosque of Damascus, also known as the Umayyad Mosque, was converted from a church dedicated to John the Baptist in 705. The world-renown Hagia Sophia in Istanbul was a thousand year-old Christian church before being transformed into a mosque following the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople in 1453. It was only converted into a museum in 1935 by ultra-secularist and Turkish founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Over the long history of Muslim territorial advance, thousands of mosques, from Spain to India, were built on sites of important religious or political value to their defeated foes.

Supporters of the project might argue that the actions of invading Muslim armies over a millennia ago are irrelevant to the issue at hand in lower Manhattan. However, it is impossible to separate the recent decline of such a trend with the parallel decline and territorial recession of Muslim lands in the second half of the second millennium. Moreover, recent territories that have returned to Muslim rule following decolonization have seen the return of the conversions of religious sites into mosques. Muammar Qaddafi, the ruler of Libya, converted 78 synagogues into mosques in the 1970s.[3] In 1975, the Great Synagogue of Oran was confiscated by the Algerian government and similarly transformed.

Proponents like to cite the namesake of the Cordoba House complex as evidence of its goal of tolerance and pluralism, referring to the relative tolerant attitude of Muslim Spain to its Jewish and Christian minorities. Those proponents, however, should recall that the Great Mosque, or Mezquita, of Cordoba was itself a Visigoth Church that was converted and rebuilt as a mosque following Muslim conquest in 784, lasting nearly 500 years before it was recaptured and converted back into a Catholic cathedral.

Both survivors and the families of the victims of the September 11 attacks, as well as most prideful New Yorkers, have strongly objected to what they see at best as an insensitive project to, at worst, a malicious broadside against those who suffered tremendously on that day and since.

It has even divided the organized Jewish community, pitting a vehemently supportive J Street against a nuancedly opposed Anti-Defamation League. The mosque, run by the Cordoba House, claims to be promoting the project not only for functional reasons, but also for civilizational ones. Its supporters say that its aim is to use the 9/11 tragedy and the location of the Ground Zero Mosque as a message of tolerance and compromise in America. By hoping that Americans would never buy into the "Us against Them" rhetoric espoused by Islamists, supporters are seeking to demonstrate the superiority of Western culture and liberalism. The fact that this is even a debate in America demonstrates American tolerance; it is illegal to build a church or synagogue anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

American government officials have been divided over the plan, with Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Congressman Jerrold Nadler, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer, Governor Deval Patrick, and, most recently, President Obama himself in support and many local and national politicians, including Senators John McCain, Joseph Lieberman, and Olympia Snowe, Congressman Peter King, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, and former Governors Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin, in opposition.


But the symbolism could not be clearer: If the Cordoba's House supporters seek to emulate the tolerance of al-Andalus, the Arabic term for Muslim Spain, they are unwittingly declaring their possible acceptance of Muslim rule.

[1] http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/DoTR.html
[2] http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/DoTR.html
[3] http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=5&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=623&PID=0&IID=1901&TTL=The_Final_Exodus_of_the_Libyan_Jews_in_1967


________________________ ________________________ ________________

Wake up fools. 


Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
People are fucking clueless to history. They'll honestly sit there and argue against you on this point. It's a FACT that Muslims have built mosques all over the world as a sign of Islamic supremacism. Thousands of religious structures have been destroyed over the centuries and mosques or other Muslim signs of conquest now sit in their place. And it's not like it's all from past centuries. The Taliban blew up those beautiful Buddhist statues carved in the rocks. Nothing has changed among the Islamists in the last 1400 years.

People need to wake up.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
I'm sure palin threads will push this into oblivion. 


Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
I'm sure palin threads will push this into oblivion.  



Either that or you'll be called a bigoted, racist Islamophobe for posting facts.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Either or you'll be called a bigoted, racist Islamophobe for posting facts.

I'm not expecting anything even resembling a refutation, or refudiation in Palin-speak, of this article. 

This is the 800lb gorrilla in the room the leftists are ignoring. 

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004


This is the 800lb gorrilla in the room the leftists are ignoring. 




Very true.  It's even worse in Europe.  Libtard fear of insulting the Muslim is growing and these morons are well versed in using our system against us.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
We're a secular country

How is the WTC a "sacred site"

and the only things WTC symbolizes to me is the massive and mutltiple failures of the administration in control at the time of the attack

we should put up a statue of Bush reading My Pet Goat

that would be more appropriate

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
We're a secular country

How is the WTC a "sacred site"

and the only things WTC symbolizes to me is the massive and mutltiple failures of the administration in control at the time of the attack

we should put up a statue of Bush reading My Pet Goat

that would be more appropriate

Beyond disgraceful, even for you Straw, which says a lot. 

In my mind there are certain sites, like Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, Statue of Liberty, Antietum battlefield, Lexington Concord, Yorktown, Bunker Hill, Shankesville PA, the Alamo, the area where Custers last stand took place, Bull Run, Ft. Sumpter, Valley Forge, certain sites in Boston like Fanieul Hall, State House, etc, that are sacred to our history and history. 

But that's me, to you leftists, I guess the only sites that are sacred are where the first abortions and gay marriages performed as well as the sites of radical leftism like the 1968 Dem Convention, etc.   

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Beyond disgraceful, even for you Straw, which says a lot. 

In my mind there are certain sites, like Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, Statue of Liberty, Antietum battlefield, Lexington Concord, Yorktown, Bunker Hill, Shankesville PA, the Alamo, the area where Custers last stand took place, Bull Run, Ft. Sumpter, Valley Forge, certain sites in Boston like Fanieul Hall, State House, etc, that are sacred to our history and history. 

But that's me, to you leftists, I guess the only sites that are sacred are where the first abortions and gay marriages performed as well as the sites of radical leftism like the 1968 Dem Convention, etc.   

no site is sacred to me

you could also say that everything is sacred and nothing is special

seriously though

I might consider the actual latitude and longitude of historical importance if I knew what really happened that day

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
no site is sacred to me

you could also say that everything is sacred and nothing is special

seriously though

I might consider the actual latitude and longitude of historical importance if I knew what really happened that day

You have taken many whacked out positions in the past, but I think this probably takes the cake. 

BTW - Savage has you pegged to the tee. 


Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
You have taken many whacked out positions in the past, but I think this probably takes the cake. 

BTW - Savage has you pegged to the tee. 



I can't listen to that idiot so why don't you summarize it for me

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
I can't listen to that idiot so why don't you summarize it for me

In sum - you are mentally sick and need help. 

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
In sum - you are mentally sick and need help.  

But, he's a liberal just like George Washington!  ::)

He's a fool. Not to mention that he's grossly uninformed on this topic so his opinion means dick. He thought it was being built 10 blocks away from the epicenter of GZ so should we really expect him to know anything else about it? That's like debating theoretical physics with a 4-year-old.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
In my mind there are certain sites, like Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, Statue of Liberty, Antietum battlefield, Lexington Concord, Yorktown, Bunker Hill, Shankesville PA, the Alamo, the area where Custers last stand took place, Bull Run, Ft. Sumpter, Valley Forge, certain sites in Boston like Fanieul Hall, State House, etc, that are sacred to our history and history. 


I guess we have different values Straw. 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
In sum - you are mentally sick and need help. 

LoL - just because I don't buy into the fear mongering and bullshit symbolism?

believe whatever you want and I'll do the same


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
LoL - just because I don't buy into the fear mongering and bullshit symbolism?

believe whatever you want and I'll do the same



In my mind there are certain sites, like Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, Statue of Liberty, Antietum battlefield, Lexington Concord, Yorktown, Bunker Hill, Shankesville PA, the Alamo, the area where Custers last stand took place, Bull Run, Ft. Sumpter, Valley Forge, certain sites in Boston like Fanieul Hall, State House, etc, that are sacred to our history and history. 

 


I value and appreaciate our history, you detest it.   

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
In my mind there are certain sites, like Pearl Harbor, Gettysburg, Statue of Liberty, Antietum battlefield, Lexington Concord, Yorktown, Bunker Hill, Shankesville PA, the Alamo, the area where Custers last stand took place, Bull Run, Ft. Sumpter, Valley Forge, certain sites in Boston like Fanieul Hall, State House, etc, that are sacred to our history and history. 


I guess we have different values Straw. 

I'm sure we do but I agreed with you on "historical significance" of WTC (and certainly most of those other sites too) but I don't see them as sacred

no site is sacred to me

you could also say that everything is sacred and nothing is special

seriously though

I might consider the actual latitude and longitude of historical importance if I knew what really happened that day

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22727
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Come on guys Savage is a Hate mongering nut job.   Anyone know if he ever got himself lifted from the "banned do not allow to enter list" in England?

I wonder why these Radical Islamic terrorists aren't attacking Dubai? 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Come on guys Savage is a Hate mongering nut job.   Anyone know if he ever got himself lifted from the "banned do not allow to enter list" in England?

I wonder why these Radical Islamic terrorists aren't attacking Dubai? 

Savage was 1000000000000% correct in that clip. 


BTW - why does England consider him worse than a convicted terrorist or murder? 
 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
But, he's a liberal just like George Washington!  ::)

He's a fool. Not to mention that he's grossly uninformed on this topic so his opinion means dick. He thought it was being built 10 blocks away from the epicenter of GZ so should we really expect him to know anything else about it? That's like debating theoretical physics with a 4-year-old.

10 blocks, 2 blocks - makes no difference to me (and I didn't argue the point when 333 mentioned it was two blocks).

the only foolish thing I do is waste time on this board talking with morons such as yourself

I frequently ask myself why I bother

If I met someone like you in real life I'd know in a matter of minutes if not seconds that you were an idiot and not worth my time so and I occasionally wonder why I don't apply that same standard to this board

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22727
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Savage was 1000000000000% correct in that clip. 


BTW - why does England consider him worse than a convicted terrorist or murder? 
 


Nah, Savage is just a mouth piece, IMO.  He's occasionally spot on, but most of the time he's just stirring shit while spewing hate.  I was occasionally listening to him last year when he got banned from England, I am just wondering what became of it, he was pursuing legal action if i remember.   

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
10 blocks, 2 blocks - makes no difference to me (and I didn't argue the point when 333 mentioned it was two blocks).

the only foolish thing I do is waste time on this board talking with morons such as yourself

I frequently ask myself why I bother

If I met someone like you in real life I'd know in a matter of minutes if not seconds that you were an idiot and not worth my time so and I occasionally wonder why I don't apply that same standard to this board


That's a pretty long way to say, "I don't know what I'm talking about with regards to this topic yet I'm arguing like I do."

Why should you be taken seriously when you're clueless on even the most simple of points regarding this mosque?


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
10 blocks, 2 blocks - makes no difference to me (and I didn't argue the point when 333 mentioned it was two blocks).

the only foolish thing I do is waste time on this board talking with morons such as yourself

I frequently ask myself why I bother

If I met someone like you in real life I'd know in a matter of minutes if not seconds that you were an idiot and not worth my time so and I occasionally wonder why I don't apply that same standard to this board


It must be hard getting owned so royally all the time.  Maybe DU, FDL, Daily Kos, or HP will be a friendlier audience for some of your insanity.   

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22727
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Straw, 

Just for the record are you OK with this Muslim community center being built at that location?

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
10 blocks, 2 blocks - makes no difference to me (and I didn't argue the point when 333 mentioned it was two blocks).

the only foolish thing I do is waste time on this board talking with morons such as yourself

I frequently ask myself why I bother

If I met someone like you in real life I'd know in a matter of minutes if not seconds that you were an idiot and not worth my time so and I occasionally wonder why I don't apply that same standard to this board




now that's a classic :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D