911 Burning the Quran ....right or wrong???

[Tito24]

Then you wonder why a lot of people (good peope though) can assert muhammed was a great and peacefull man.

[Fury]

Then you wonder why a lot of people (good peope though) can assert muhammed was a great and peacefull man.

Moohammed participated in 28 battles and destroyed thousands with his own hands. He rewarded a man who stabbed a pregnant women in the stomach because she spoke ill of him. He was a pedophile, a mass murderer and a scumbag. The list of atrocities carried out by him is endless.

He was anything but peaceful.  

There is nothing in Islam's history to indicate that's it's peaceful in any way whatsoever. In-fact, one can easily make the argument that the violent "radicals" are following the true Islam and that it's the "moderates" who should be considered the extremists.

[stuntmovie]

Ron, the Torah is the Old Testament .... right?

Is there any difference between the Old Testament in the Bible and the Torah.... or is it the same? Are there additions or deletions in either one?

Thanks for your expertise, Ron.

Stunt .... See ya at the "O"

[Tito24]

Its weird because when i saw the beautifull documentary narrotated by Ben Kingsley "Empire of faith" it gave a totally different view of muhammed and islam in general, highly romanticized. offcourse with battles and stuff but not the things you mentioned.

[Lundgren]

that preaching of violence in the quran probably was relevant in a backwarded desert site where tribes fought eachother. same with the stupid thing of not eating flesh of a pig. which was probably relevant that time because of the fastening expiring date. these morons place everything in the context of modern times.

Mohammed was Jesus Christ/Julius Ceaser/ George washington all in one.

[Nails]

[Tito24]

Mohammed was Jesus Christ/Julius Ceaser/ George washington all in one.

and hitler?

[Top Dog]

It's because Moohammed accounted for this by throwing in little clauses like saying that everything in the Koran is infallible, irrefutable and anyone who disagrees or fails to uphold any of the values preached by it is to be executed.

Bingo! And all the uneducated nightshirt wearing rank and file are believers. All others are Infidels.

[vic86]

Eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind - Mahatma Gandhi

[Lundgren]

and hitler?

Yes hitler too, ass brown people have lizard blood, which makes them ok with the slaughter of child.

[Tito24]

maybe the child was not brave?

[tbombz]

According to William Montgomery Watt and Richard Bell, recent writers have generally dismissed the idea that Muhammad deliberately deceived his followers, arguing that Muhammad "was absolutely sincere and acted in complete good faith"[189] and that Muhammad’s readiness to endure hardship for his cause when there seemed to be no rational basis for hope shows his sincerity.[190] Watt says that sincerity does not directly imply correctness: In contemporary terms, Muhammad might have mistaken his own subconscious for divine revelation.[191] Watt and Lewis argue that viewing Muhammad as a self-seeking impostor makes it impossible to understand the development of Islam.[192][193] Welch holds that Muhammad was able to be so influential and successful because of his firm belief in his vocation.[14]

[che]

I'm going to burn a bible and Quran tomorrow ,I hope Ron doesn't put me in time out.

[Fury]

The Myth:  

Muhammad was a peaceful man who taught his followers to be the same.  Muslims lived peacefully for centuries, fighting only in self-defense - and when it was necessary.  True Muslims would never act aggressively.

The Truth:

Muhammad organized 65 military campaigns in the last ten years of his life and personally led 27 of them.  The more power that he attained, the smaller the excuse needed to go to battle, until finally he began attacking tribes merely because they were not part of his growing empire.

After Muhammad’s death, his successor immediately went to war with former allied tribes which wanted to go their own way.  Abu Bakr called them 'apostates' and slaughtered anyone who did not want to remain Muslim.  Eventually, he was successful in holding the empire together with blood and violence.

The prophet of Islam's most faithful followers and even his own family turned on each other as well.  There were four caliphs (leaders) in the first twenty-five years, each of which was a trusted companion of his.  Three of these four were murdered.  The third caliph was murdered by those allied with the son of the first.  The fourth Caliph was murdered in the midst of a conflict with the fifth, who began a 100-year dynasty of excess and debauchery that was ended in a gruesome, widespread bloodbath by descendents of Muhammad’s uncle.

Muhammad’s own daughter, Fatima, and his son-in-law, Ali, who both survived the pagan hardship during the Meccan years safe and sound, did not survive Islam after the death of Muhammad.  Fatima died of stress from persecution within three months, and Ali was later assassinated by Muslim rivals.  Their son (Muhammad’s grandson) was killed in battle with the faction that became today’s Sunnis.  His people became Shias.  The relatives and personal friends of Muhammad were mixed into both warring groups, which then fractured further into hostile sub-divisions as Islam expanded.

Muslim apologists, who like to say that is impossible for today's terrorists to be Muslim when they kill fellow Muslims, would have a very tough time explaining the war between Fatima's followers and Aisha to a knowledgeable audience.  Muhammad's favorite daughter and his favorite wife were both explicitly held up by him as model Muslim women, yet they were both invoked by other companions as they engaged in violent civil war following his death.  Which one was the prophet of God so horribly wrong about?

Muhammad left his men with instructions to take the battle against Christians, Persians, Jews and polytheists (which came to include millions of unfortunate Hindus).  For the next four centuries, Muslim armies steamrolled over unsuspecting neighbors, plundering them of loot and slaves, and forcing the survivors to either convert or pay tribute at the point of a sword.

Companions of Muhammad lived to see Islam declare war on every major religion in the world in just the first few decades following his death - pressing the Jihad against Hindus, Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and Buddhists.

By the time of the Crusades (when the Europeans began fighting back), Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world by sword, from Syria to Spain, and across North Africa.

Millions of Christians were enslaved by Muslims, and tens of millions of Africans.  The Arab slave-trading routes would stay open for 1300 years, until pressure from Christian-based countries forced Islamic nations to declare the practice illegal (in theory).  To this day, the Muslim world has never apologized for the victims of Jihad and slavery.

There is not another religion in the world that consistently produces terrorism in the name of religion as does Islam.  The most dangerous Muslims are nearly always those who interpret the Qur’an most transparently.  They are the fundamentalists or purists of the faith, and believe in Muhammad’s mandate to spread Islamic rule by the sword, putting to death those who will not submit.

The holy texts of Islam are saturated with verses of violence and hatred toward those outside the faith.  In sharp contrast to the Bible, which generally moves from relatively violent episodes to far more peaceful mandates, the Qur’an travels the exact opposite path (violence is first forbidden, then permitted, then mandatory).  The handful of earlier verses that speak of tolerance are overwhelmed by an avalanche of later ones that carry a much different message.  While Old Testament verses of blood and guts are generally bound by historical context within the text itself, Qur'anic imperatives to violence usually appear open-ended and subject to personal interpretation.

From the history of the faith to its most sacred writings, those who want to believe in "peaceful Islam" have a lot more of Islam to ignore than do the terrorists.  By any objective measure, the "Religion of Peace" has been the harshest, bloodiest religion the world has ever known.

[Immortal_Technique]

Simply put - respect begets respect.  No one should burn a Quran, as no one should burn the Christian bible, as no one should burn the Jewish Torah.  All it does is create bad situations and is pretty damn racist.

Obviously, 90% of the Muslims in this world want peace, and want to live with respect.  It is the 10% of the Muslims that control via terror, radicalism and fear that have created this problem.  

Burning any form of a book that harbors deep feelings for any religion is just stupid. What point are you trying to prove? That all Muslims are bad?  Get over it - they are not.


As for the mosque being built very close to Ground Zero in New York - another stupid idea that should never be built, for again, it is clearly meant to incite.  And since some of the backers promote terror, it should be done and put away.

Like it or not, radical Muslims blew up the Twin Towers. Radical Muslims cheered the event.

Here here. If people can't separate the radical Muslim extremists from the regular civilian Muslims then that's their problem. Especially when the inevitable backlash from this book burning comes in the form of American soldiers' lives, which surely even this book-burning guy doesn't want to see?

[Purple Aki]

Here here. If people can't separate the radical Muslim extremists from the regular civilian Muslims then that's their problem. Especially when the inevitable backlash from this book burning comes in the form of American soldiers' lives, which surely even this book-burning guy doesn't want to see?

You have to laugh at the idea that the burning of a book will make a group of people intent on murdering infidels any more murderous.

"Mohammad, I was only going to murder 5 ISAF Soldiers today, because, well you know, 5 is normally my limit, but did you see those Americans and their book burning, now I will murder 10"

"Yes, Ahmed, I agree me too, but 11 for me"

[Immortal_Technique]

Well yes but how many Muslims died for not complying with Christianity during the crusades?

2,000 dead in 9/11 triggered 112,000 dead in Iraq. Reactions are often disproportionately harsh where the stupidity that is religion is involved.

[Tyr]

Anyone who engages in book burning or flag burning in some lame retaliation act is clearly a retard. It accomplishes nothing apart from getting a few minutes of fame until the media moves on to the next story of "interest" . I think the pastor knows his little stunt is not going to happen so he's going to try to save face before scurrying back to whatever hole he crawled out of.  

In fact a very large number of Christians of all stripes have denounced this pastors "show and tell" performance.

Had things been reversed how many muslims would have spoken out if a Imam was threatening to burn a bible? Their silence would have been deafening.

How many peaceful Muslims denounce their radical Islamic clergymen when they try to incite fatwas and try to recruit impressionable young men into radicalism?

[Fury]

Well yes but how many Muslims died for not complying with Christianity during the crusades?

2,000 dead in 9/11 triggered 112,000 dead in Iraq. Reactions are often disproportionately harsh where the stupidity that is religion is involved.

This is why people like you should be ignored. You do know that the Crusades only came about after 100+ years of Muslims conquering, raping, pillaging and committing mass murder of Christians across the Middle East, North Africa and southern Europe, right? Of course not.  

[Les Grossman]

2,000 dead in 9/11 triggered 112,000 dead in Iraq.

Doesn't seem like enough to suit me....and I don't lose one minute of sleep over it.

[che]

.  The more power that he attained, the smaller the excuse needed to go to battle, until finally he began attacking tribes merely because they were not part of his growing empire.

Wow, sounds like the American Army

[Tyr]

" I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture"
                                                                            -  John Howard (Australian Prime Minister)

[CC973]

According to William Montgomery Watt and Richard Bell, recent writers have generally dismissed the idea that Muhammad deliberately deceived his followers, arguing that Muhammad "was absolutely sincere and acted in complete good faith"[189] and that Muhammad’s readiness to endure hardship for his cause when there seemed to be no rational basis for hope shows his sincerity.[190] Watt says that sincerity does not directly imply correctness: In contemporary terms, Muhammad might have mistaken his own subconscious for divine revelation.[191] Watt and Lewis argue that viewing Muhammad as a self-seeking impostor makes it impossible to understand the development of Islam.[192][193] Welch holds that Muhammad was able to be so influential and successful because of his firm belief in his vocation.[14]

[Tyr]

Old news but no messing about. Good for the Aussies to start taking a stand.


A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."

"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia ." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."


Moderate muslims should follow this guys example

Muslims urged to reject extremism

Having escaped the terror of Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Ali Al-Wahabi does not want radical Muslims to now force him out of Australia.

He called on other moderate Muslims on Sunday to end their silence and speak out against growing Islamic extremism in Australia and abroad.

"My message is to the moderate Muslim to get out of their cocoon and voice their opinion and defend their religion, not against the enemy of Islam, but against the extremists of Islam," Mr Al-Wahabi said.

"Those people do not represent Muslims, they definitely do not represent me or my children.

"I really fought hard to gain freedom and this is freedom which I gained here in Australia.

"Only through tolerance and understanding do we create acceptance and through acceptance we will have peace and harmony and co-existence."

Mr Al-Wahabi said he was becoming increasingly concerned over the escalating extremism of some Muslims in Australia.

"I am concerned, that is why we need to subdue the notion of conflict and violence before it is born," he said.

"I want my kids and my children's children to have a peaceful life."

The pilot, who recently published his autobiography Farewell Brave Babylon, said unlike Iraqis, he at least felt safe when praying in his Sydney mosque each day.

"I want to convey a message to those extremists; if they don't like it here, they should be reminded of where they come from and they always have the choice to go back," he said.

[ToxicAvenger]

instead of trying to impress getbiggers...focus on the youth of Pakistan.

why?  they have a shoddy cricket team....so much for the youth..cricket ws my only connection to pakistan and now even thats gone

and please..please...dont EVER think you r important enough to me for me to try n impress you...

for that i'd merely post a picture pic of my turd