Before Pro Bodybuilding

[WillGrant]

I agree with GH15 - quality tren should look yellow to gold , it means quality raw powders have been used - you cant compare it to Para as its no longer availible so forget it.


So where did the whole you must use TEST with certain drugs to stop erectile and libido issues come from when the guys from the 70s - early 80s loved nandralone and other anabolics so much ? it seems the androgen type drug of choice was dball , but reading what some of the older guys are saying they felt great on deca and didnt have problems with it.

[gh15]

When talking about tren I always read, even guys like Bench and Disgusted insist, that you should only use tren for 6 up to 8 weeks max because it's hard on your kidneys. You seem to recommend that, if serious, to stay on virtually all the time, at least 3 months (as you just mentioned) and that you are safe as long as you don't go crazy with dose like 200mg/day along with alcohol and rec drugs.

How toxic is tren and why would it be harder on your kidneys than any other injectables? Though I didn't think injectables were particularly toxic to your kidneys.
 

no bodybuildr use product for couple  weeks,,we live from product to product and on them for many weeks/months,,if you use trenbolona for 4 week you dont have a chance to get into the level im talking about,, the reason all the gurus around recomend it for that period of time is because legit trenbolona will fuck your head,,you will be extremly mentaly fucked on it tht tha main reason behind the recomendation ,,the toxicity is balonie like with any steroid,,its the rec drugs who causes the death and problems you hear about,,itsa the alcohol that go along with their zoloft and their xanax and percosets that cause the bad things you hear about...or advil...


we use trenbolona for 3-6 months with no problem same as we use dianabol 2 months with no problem or at high doses of 150mg a day with no problem and this is oral! ,,trenbolona is not toxic and if you drink enough you will have your pee completely white or light yellow,,if drink little less it will be bright yellow,,but brown?? hell no it wont be brown ,,if your pee is brown its because of the packs of malborow cigaretes you smoke along with your narcotic drugs and the 20 pack beers you finished last week in the frat party right before you fucked gina

bodybuild is partying does not go together ,,it never did and never will,,

the result with trenbolona on a fella who is 12% will only come after 3 months into the level you like to be proud of as in 7% and lean and thick and large...

all the fella who talk about 3 -4 weeks here there are already after years over years of hormones and walk around 8-9% on regular basis and just use trenblona to harden up and drop some water which they call fat which in reality is nothing but their bloat from androgenic testosterona because they always walk around 8% they tell to your face they are 10-12 but no they are 8 % but even they use it on a regular basis and much longe than 4 weeks if want to get to a new level of development


doses change,,100mg every day is a dose that make big changes especially in how lean one is and how dense and hard and still have all good thickness ,,100-120mg every day for 3 months create big big changes on one physiqe

over 120 mg is usually used by the top amatuers and profesionals ,,but if you dont use it you wont get to be top amatuer or professional...

the more trenbolona you use the leaner you wil become,,the more muscular you will become and the more sculpted you will become,,add gh and you have top amatuer in NO TIME,,

the illusion trenbolona can give on physiqe is usually 15-30 lb meaning you are 195 and you look 215

gh15 approved

[pellius]

BTW, when asked about how long one should be "on" Walzak replied that "as long as you want to keep growing." He didn't believe in cycling. And this was in the early 1980s. He put it this way: if you are at a certain bodyweight and you want to gain weight you have to increase caloric intake. You don't do this for a certain period of time and then go back to your previous caloric intake because then you will just slowly lose the weight you gained and get back to your previous weight. Once you reach your natural limit in bodybuilding, which he estimated at around 3-5 years of serious and consistent training depending on when you started, growth will stop. When you add anabolics you will once again begin growing. You are only able to grow (muscle wise of course) only because now you have increase your ability through the use of anabolics. Once you take them out, you will slowly revert back to your origin state. And just like you will plateau in weight gain after a specific increase in calorics you will have to further increase those calories to put on even more weight. So eventually you will plateau at a certain dose of anabolics you will have to increase the dose to progress even further. Cycling he felt was counter productive and maybe more harmful constantly going up and down like that. That's why he insisted that his patients have a good training foundation before he would treat them and that if they want to do this and are serious about it, it's for the long haul.

He didn't seem to preoccupied with training specifics other than to not over train and to go hard and heavy and maintain decent form. Don't throw the weights around. Other than that, types of exercises or routines, rep schemes or methodologies didn't seem to matter that much to him. Just lift weights like you mean it and eat a lot (something he also stressed when starting anabolics).  
 

[gh15]

Parabolin as in trenbolone cyclohexylmethylcarbonat e, is colorless period. Also, the old Finaject (50mg per ml)  was also clear. I NEVER once saw yellow tren of any kind until the pellets came on the scene and I've personally seen both. There was a ton of this stuff floating around back in the early 80's. Also, I am still of the opinion that tren should not ever be used by a non competitor. I personally know two guys who have had kidney problems from using tren. One guy was just shy of losing his kidneys and the other not so bad but still bad enuff. They both are of the opinion that tren use as in too much and not enuff breaks messed with their kidneys.

trenbolona ace color is always yellow to golden yellow ,,any other color and you either get fake bunk or combo of both ,,somtimes only oil,,sometimes completey diff product,,trust me on that,,very few cooks aroudn now days cook legit trenbolona and when you hit the jackpot with legit trenbolona from high wuality raw ...you start understanding what bodybuild is all about ...along with gh ofcourse

never the less,,the fellas you talk about when they talk aboutr being messed kidnys yada dee yada daa you talk here about severe abusers,,guys who used for years with out coming off,,and fellas who used DIRTY PRODUCTS as in they were like crack addicts they would put anything and everything into their body from the worse possible raw WHICH IS THE COW PELLETS! ,,i do not approve cow pellets i said it million times,, but those fellas also used high doses for very long time ,,im not talkin here 120 mg foro 4 months im talking her 200 mg every day for 6+ months with other drugs such as narcotics and booz! i do consider booz as drug ,,,thats how they get the liver problems,,because they have to function in life,,and if you dont have life free of stress you need to perform and if you need to perform you wil take your tynalololol  and your advilololol and use them and you will take your little pain killer the doc prescribed you few years back and you kept in the cabinet,,and you wil drink with the girl her blue moon beers...and then you also going to go to clubs and wear tight shirt that is made perposly one size too small so everyone can see you aore bodybuilder and you will party some and come home at 5 am after few sniffs of cocaine....

now those! fellas have problems,,those fellas sit with liver cancers after abuse of anything,,they live for abuse,,but it did not come from the 100mg trenbolona a day for 4 months i can garentee you this!

the head is something diff ,,trenbolona can break up your relashionship if you dont know how to control yourself and if you have mental issues from before ,,so yes the head thing is real then again you are first and formost bodybuilder and bodybuilder shoudl be smart enough to not only build his body but also make sure he doesnt get into trouble when on trenbolona ,,

there is no replace to trenbolona ,,no drug will ever be as good aside from gh which got to go in a combo with trenbolona for the final mutation process

gh15 approved

[Max_Rep]

No, but the fictional character Disgusted wishes he could go back in time do a few more of those type cycles. 

Well the fictional character known as Max_Rep would be right there with you on that note. However Max_Rep went back and looked at some old pictures and realized that while he was bigger and much stronger on those fictional cycles, he LOOKED much better at the end of his 9-month break. He had finally achieved what he had set out to do many years earlier as a teen and didn’t even realize it when he got there. The idiot.

Flame away Everlast shorts and all. Don't you just love the eighties clothing styles?

[luvvsuNOT]

no bodybuildr use product for couple  weeks,,we live from product to product and on them for many weeks/months,,if you use trenbolona for 4 week you dont have a chance to get into the level im talking about,, the reason all the gurus around recomend it for that period of time is because legit trenbolona will fuck your head,,you will be extremly mentaly fucked on it tht tha main reason behind the recomendation ,,the toxicity is balonie like with any steroid,,its the rec drugs who causes the death and problems you hear about,,itsa the alcohol that go along with their zoloft and their xanax and percosets that cause the bad things you hear about...or advil...


we use trenbolona for 3-6 months with no problem same as we use dianabol 2 months with no problem or at high doses of 150mg a day with no problem and this is oral! ,,trenbolona is not toxic and if you drink enough you will have your pee completely white or light yellow,,if drink little less it will be bright yellow,,but brown?? hell no it wont be brown ,,if your pee is brown its because of the packs of malborow cigaretes you smoke along with your narcotic drugs and the 20 pack beers you finished last week in the frat party right before you fucked gina

bodybuild is partying does not go together ,,it never did and never will,,

the result with trenbolona on a fella who is 12% will only come after 3 months into the level you like to be proud of as in 7% and lean and thick and large...

all the fella who talk about 3 -4 weeks here there are already after years over years of hormones and walk around 8-9% on regular basis and just use trenblona to harden up and drop some water which they call fat which in reality is nothing but their bloat from androgenic testosterona because they always walk around 8% they tell to your face they are 10-12 but no they are 8 % but even they use it on a regular basis and much longe than 4 weeks if want to get to a new level of development


doses change,,100mg every day is a dose that make big changes especially in how lean one is and how dense and hard and still have all good thickness ,,100-120mg every day for 3 months create big big changes on one physiqe

over 120 mg is usually used by the top amatuers and profesionals ,,but if you dont use it you wont get to be top amatuer or professional...

the more trenbolona you use the leaner you wil become,,the more muscular you will become and the more sculpted you will become,,add gh and you have top amatuer in NO TIME,,

the illusion trenbolona can give on physiqe is usually 15-30 lb meaning you are 195 and you look 215

gh15 approved

How come tren unlike any other compound screws with your cardio? nothing beats it for dramaitc changes in body composition but I start breathng hard like grandpa when just walking up a flgiht of stairs.

[flexingtonsteele]

Well the fictional character known as Max_Rep would be right there with you on that note. However Max_Rep went back and looked at some old pictures and realized that while he was bigger and much stronger on those fictional cycles, he LOOKED much better at the end of his 9-month break. He had finally achieved what he had set out to do many years earlier as a teen and didn’t even realize it when he got there. The idiot.

Flame away Everlast shorts and all. Don't you just love the eighties clothing styles?

nice physique bro ( no homo )

[pellius]

Well the fictional character known as Max_Rep would be right there with you on that note. However Max_Rep went back and looked at some old pictures and realized that while he was bigger and much stronger on those fictional cycles, he LOOKED much better at the end of his 9-month break. He had finally achieved what he had set out to do many years earlier as a teen and didn’t even realize it when he got there. The idiot.

Flame away Everlast shorts and all. Don't you just love the eighties clothing styles?

Now that's a 'stache.

[DK II]

BTW, when asked about how long one should be "on" Walzak replied that "as long as you want to keep growing." He didn't believe in cycling. And this was in the early 1980s. He put it this way: if you are at a certain bodyweight and you want to gain weight you have to increase caloric intake. You don't do this for a certain period of time and then go back to your previous caloric intake because then you will just slowly lose the weight you gained and get back to your previous weight. Once you reach your natural limit in bodybuilding, which he estimated at around 3-5 years of serious and consistent training depending on when you started, growth will stop. When you add anabolics you will once again begin growing. You are only able to grow (muscle wise of course) only because now you have increase your ability through the use of anabolics. Once you take them out, you will slowly revert back to your origin state. And just like you will plateau in weight gain after a specific increase in calorics you will have to further increase those calories to put on even more weight. So eventually you will plateau at a certain dose of anabolics you will have to increase the dose to progress even further. Cycling he felt was counter productive and maybe more harmful constantly going up and down like that. That's why he insisted that his patients have a good training foundation before he would treat them and that if they want to do this and are serious about it, it's for the long haul.

He didn't seem to preoccupied with training specifics other than to not over train and to go hard and heavy and maintain decent form. Don't throw the weights around. Other than that, types of exercises or routines, rep schemes or methodologies didn't seem to matter that much to him. Just lift weights like you mean it and eat a lot (something he also stressed when starting anabolics).  
 

that's spot on.

[tbombz]

i didnt read the whole conversation abotu tren color. but quality tren can be either yellow (whatever color the base oil is), or it can be a darker amber or brown. the tren that is dark gets that way because of heat oxidation-discolors it. when quality tren is golden it hasnt been heated. (done by a pro)

[Coach is Back!]

i didnt read the whole conversation abotu tren color. but quality tren can be either yellow (whatever color the base oil is), or it can be a darker amber or brown. the tren that is dark gets that way because of heat oxidation-discolors it. when quality tren is golden it hasnt been heated. (done by a pro)

You know this from experience or google?

[Meso_z]

It came from Dan Duchaine and Mike Zumpano in their original Underground Steroid Guide. Before that test wasn’t used much but they said it was a “poor man’s decca”. Then everyone started using it.

Very true Disgusted. I didn’t learn that from a book (some from Dr. Kerr’s book when I was a patient). I learned from training with the best.

I was only able to get Finijet once. It was about 1983. It was a 50 ml brown bottle with I think French on the label. I mixed it with Anavar… holy giver of muscle! I hadn’t done a cycle in 9 months because I wanted to trim down for some photo’s. I about doubled my strength on everything in 6 weeks and gained about 20 pounds at 5’7”.

My favorite cycle was Methandriol and dbol. Worked really well for me. Good size gains, no acne, good hardness…. lot’s a libido.

Of course, this is all fictional, right? No one is admitting to any illegal activity or giving out a recipe.  

Are you sure it was HG? Because human grade gear never comes in "50 ml brown bottle". lol. Sounds more like a shitty UGL. 

[gh15]

How come tren unlike any other compound screws with your cardio? nothing beats it for dramaitc changes in body composition but I start breathng hard like grandpa when just walking up a flgiht of stairs.

its just how it is with trenbolona,,2 sides that very common are the dry caugh like you have some caoughing deasease lol you just feel dry from within ..not saliva wize because that you have plenty you dont have dry mouth ,,but you feel dry physiqe wize from within ....so you got the caugh which is a regular thing with trenbolona short dry caugh not always ofcourse but sometimes...and you also got the caugh where you injected into or touched a blood vessle and it got to lunges fast and then you caugh your mama and papa and have metalic taste in mouth and tongue and you just caugh for next 5 min and spit saliva like the typical tobaco americano and then 5 min later like nothign happened all jacked cut and lean to the gym you go

the cardio is not needed with trenbolona ,,i dont knwo why someone will do cardio unles really 2-4weeks from competition and even then you are on other stimulants that help

you do understand that all the csrdio we do is besically walk lol ,,we walk on thread mil ,,go walk yoiur dog and help you girl move apartment and you get that cardio ,,go fuck her you get even more cardio

gh15 approved
gh15 approved

[g101]

we use dianabol 2 months with no problem or at high doses of 150mg a day with no problem and this is oral!

I thought any oral over 30-45 days was useless 

What's the maximum amount of time you recommend for all orals

[bodyofsteel]

If you want bodybuilding contests to go back to 'the old days' somewhat, ask the judges to start deducting points for bloated edit: Insulin waists.

Why don't most pro bodybuilders show obvious synthol use? Because judges will dock them for it.

It's all about seeking the judges approval, they hold the power to shape what pro bodybuilders will strive for.

[Schmoe Buster]

I thought any oral over 30-45 days was useless 

What's the maximum amount of time you recommend for all orals

Ive used Anadrol for 8 weeks, was great also used Dbol and Winstrols tabs together for 8 weeks some years ago, also worked great

[gh15]

If you want bodybuilding contests to go back to 'the old days' somewhat, ask the judges to start deducting points for bloated GH waists.

Why don't most pro bodybuilders show obvious synthol use? Because judges will dock them for it.

It's all about seeking the judges approval, they hold the power to shape what pro bodybuilders will strive for.

the gut is not from the gh ,,it is from THE INSULIN ADDITION and then due to the insulin and the ability to eat all you can eat mother fuckin out of this world calories.....the combo of both insulina and all you can ....create this enormous jason cutler waists that in many times are way way worse than jason because jason has some shape to abs ...the gh is only there to keep you lean and drive mutatiton into 3 dimentional aspect while the insulina is what REALLY BLOW your gut,,blow all of you as a matter of fact,,

gh is one of the best hormones bodybuild ever used,,it is very very nesasery in bodybuild especialy when you reach 30 year old inorder to exotnd your bodybuild career or hobby past age 30...not to forget!,,arnold retired at 28 30 ,,,others back then were out of the game very early into the late 20s or into the late 30s,,,today the gh give you another 10-20 years,,infact some compete into their 60s lol and it is DUE TO GH ,,gh is very very good hormones,,infact the best over all hormone for humans,, it is the dumb fucks who put the insulina and the all you can eat buffet with the gh that ruined it all ,,you cant be 280 and keep astetics,,it never look good no matter who you are,,ron colman was very diff and even he hardly pull it at 280-290 it was very hard for him to pull it and he was the best genetics to ever walk earth,,bodybuild should be like it was in 80s and 70s ,,you dont kil a good thing,,you advance it to main stream by making more and more people wanting to use steroids,,remember when you see frank zane,, when you see arnold,,when you osee lee labrada....you actually WANTED TO LOOK LIKE THAT,,THE PUBLIC WAS VERY VERY OPEN TO IT BACK THEN MUCH MORE THAN NOW MUCH MUCH MORE,,

gh15 approved

[gh15]

I thought any oral over 30-45 days was useless  

What's the maximum amount of time you recommend for all orals

lol,,as long as you body can take it with out making you sleep 17 hours a day ,,with orals there is no ifs or buts,,moment body doesnt want it you will know it oh you will,,you lose all hunger and you want to sleep 17 hours a day ,,there is diff between wanting to sleep 10 hours a day and 17 hours a day....moment this hapen you need a break,,in general i do not like orals and today much prefer injecting everything if conected to good cook

gh15 approved

[Max_Rep]

Are you sure it was HG? Because human grade gear never comes in "50 ml brown bottle". lol. Sounds more like a shitty UGL. 

Not sure bro... that's why most of the time I went with a doctor script and pharmacy route. The finijet was out of the gym and who knows what it really was.

Pellius... right on about Walzak. I only went to him twice but I remember his saying some of the same things you said here.

GH15 thanks for all the info. Good information.

Flexington... Thanks again.

[pellius]

Not sure bro... that's why most of the time I went with a doctor script and pharmacy route. The finijet was out of the gym and who knows what it really was.

Pellius... right on about Walzak. I only went to him twice but I remember his saying some of the same things you said here.

GH15 thanks for all the info. Good information.

Flexington... Thanks again.

It appears Walzak may have been ahead of his time regarding cycling. Cycling never made sense to me and Walzak's explanation did. It's what gh15 says and what serious bodybuilders actually do -- never or rarely go off. Plus what happens in the real world. People go off, feel like shit, but suck it up until they think their "receptors cleared" and they can get back on again. But the first four weeks is just getting back to where you were before. Still, the majority of the kids out there still do this cycling thing. Maybe it has to do with money. But one thing, at least for me, it makes you think long and hard if you want to take this step.

BTW, this is one of the points that gives credibility to gh15 and mocks those that think he's Sev or some kid who googles all day. You never hear anybody talk like that openly or find it in google or muscle mags. Even though they've been injecting everyday for years they will still talk in terms of cycles. Maybe they mean they cycle 12 weeks on deca/test/dbol and then immediately start their prop/tren/mast cycle.

I remember Dante's advice on cycling which was blast high dose for 6-8 weeks and then "cruise" on 250mg-500/ml of test for two weeks and then blast again. So say you blast 1.5-2 grams test for 8 weeks, which was the dosage he recommended. How much would your blood levels drop two weeks after you last "blast" shot and then doing the cruise 250-500mg/wk. That's why I found it hilarious when someone posted, "So what you're saying is to just never go off gear?"
   

[Reeves]

Walzak was a total flamer.  If I recall correctly, he had a place in Palm Springs where he would "help" bodybuilders...

I think that pretty much only Arnold and Franco made money at bodybuilding in those days with their courses and guest posing stints at contests at the local,  state or national level.   

As for cycling of their drugs, most if not all of the guys back then went off for periods of time.  It makes sense to give your body a rest from that shit but today's fags in heat stay on constantly at dosages that would suffice for the entire Oakland Raiders team.  Fuck that noise.

[andreisdaman]

Guys competed for a title. They competed because they loved to compete, not for money. They had no sponsors and most of them had real jobs. Shows were usually held in a school auditorium and no one cared about what the general public thought about them. Yes they used drugs, but most of them had symmetrical physiques with a small waist. Sometimes I think going backwards would actually be taking a step forward?

not a bad idea but what would all the schmoes do???...then again.....schmoes would actually have it even better since they would be a major source of income for the BB'ers, since there would be no prize money

[flinstones1]

When talking about tren I always read, even guys like Bench and Disgusted insist, that you should only use tren for 6 up to 8 weeks max because it's hard on your kidneys. You seem to recommend that, if serious, to stay on virtually all the time, at least 3 months (as you just mentioned) and that you are safe as long as you don't go crazy with dose like 200mg/day along with alcohol and rec drugs.

How toxic is tren and why would it be harder on your kidneys than any other injectables? Though I didn't think injectables were particularly toxic to your kidneys.
 

I dont see why tren is so much better than any other AAS like deca. They both bind to the andogen receptor extremely well and plus nandrolone has studies to show it builds muscle mass on humans tren does not. All this stacking stuff gh15 says about some magic cocktail makes no sense. if you are 250 pounds of pure muscle tissue it does not matter how you get there. Lots of test no test little gh lot of insulin...gain a  pound of muscle  and gues what...it is a pound of muscle weather you do it on test or anadrol or tren or dbol. Pellius, bro just get 100 tabs of dbol and take 3 a day for 6 weeks and in one month you will be alot further in bbing than askin this shit. It's not like your gonna take the drugs gh15 says to anyways (am i wrong?)..kind of like my friend who carries a notebook wth him and writes his hypothetical cycles but has yet to pull the trigger and plays with 3 cycles a year 500mg test

[Disgusted]

Well the fictional character known as Max_Rep would be right there with you on that note. However Max_Rep went back and looked at some old pictures and realized that while he was bigger and much stronger on those fictional cycles, he LOOKED much better at the end of his 9-month break. He had finally achieved what he had set out to do many years earlier as a teen and didn’t even realize it when he got there. The idiot.

Flame away Everlast shorts and all. Don't you just love the eighties clothing styles?

WOW looking good Max. How old in that pic?

[Disgusted]

not a bad idea but what would all the schmoes do???...then again.....schmoes would actually have it even better since they would be a major source of income for the BB'ers, since there would be no prize money

When I was younger and competing we all wanted to be pro but NOT because we dreamt of money but because we wanted to stand next to the big guys. As far as prize money there are ways to give out compensation without one losing their amateur status.  If anyone is wanting to be a pro for the money there are in the wrong sport..