Author Topic: Ron Paul Interview on Co Introducing Bill To Decriminalize Marijuana  (Read 3876 times)

Dos Equis

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Some of these studies seem like "gee wiz" studies.  The chance of psychosis is very small and using pot increases a small chance by 40%?  There's a extremely good chance that when a different group of people are tested they will get a 40% or more swing in results regadless. 

I don't think the studies conclusively prove anything.  I do think they tend to dispel the notion that marijuana is harmless. 

Dos Equis

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part of the govt's role is to maintain the prodictivity and viability of 305 million americans.

So yes, religion/law for the moral compass and education for the productivity side of things.  You can't have 50 million kids sitting on the couch playing halo Reach eating pizza.  You need them entering the workforce.

Wait, you think the country just happens to function, and that the govt doesn't play any role in guiding overall productivity and behavior of the masses, eh?

What?   ???

Dos Equis

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I am fairly sure that if weed is legalized it won't be legal for people under the age of 21 to buy, carry or use it.

Probably, but if you look at the fact 80 percent of kids may have tried alcohol, as opposed to 21 percent for marijuana, wouldn't the legalization of marijuana lead to higher use by minors? 

OzmO

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I don't think the studies conclusively prove anything.  I do think they tend to dispel the notion that marijuana is harmless. 

If its within the realm of a natural frequency how could it be anymore harmful than things that are marginally harmful at best?  For example, drinking a beer a day, eating white bread once or twice per week, ice cream, Liberalism ( :D), etc. 

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Same with driving drunk?

I say yes.

definitely!!!!


OzmO

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Probably, but if you look at the fact 80 percent of kids may have tried alcohol, as opposed to 21 percent for marijuana, wouldn't the legalization of marijuana lead to higher use by minors?  

that study would certianly support your assertion.  However, this study weakens it:

WASHINGTON —  Alcohol and marijuana use among teens is on the rise, ending a decade-long decline, a study being released Tuesday found.

"I'm a little worried that we may be seeing the leading edge of a trend here," said Sean Clarkin, director of strategy at The Partnership for a Drug-Free America, which was releasing the study. "Historically, you do see the increase in recreational drugs before you see increases in some of the harder drugs."

The annual survey found the number of teens in grades 9 through 12 who reported drinking alcohol in the last month rose 11 percent last year, with 39 percent — about 6.5 million teens — reporting alcohol use. That's up from 35 percent, or about 5.8 million teens, in 2008.

For pot, 25 percent of teens reported smoking marijuana in the last month, up from 19 percent.

Until last year, those measures for pot and alcohol use had been on a steady decline since 1998, when use hovered around 50 percent of teens for alcohol and 27 percent for pot.

The study also found use of the party drug Ecstasy on the rise. Six percent of teens surveyed said they used Ecstasy in the past month, compared with 4 percent in 2008.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587708,00.html

I think one of the things to consider is possibly that "trying alcohol" many times is a result of the parents letting their kids have a taste of beer.  

Dos Equis

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If its within the realm of a natural frequency how could it be anymore harmful than things that are marginally harmful at best?  For example, drinking a beer a day, eating white bread once or twice per week, ice cream, Liberalism ( :D), etc. 

Are there studies showing those things in those quantities are harmful?  (Except for liberalism, which is clearly a mental disorder.)   :)

Dos Equis

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that study would certianly support your assertion.  However, this study weakens it:

WASHINGTON —  Alcohol and marijuana use among teens is on the rise, ending a decade-long decline, a study being released Tuesday found.

"I'm a little worried that we may be seeing the leading edge of a trend here," said Sean Clarkin, director of strategy at The Partnership for a Drug-Free America, which was releasing the study. "Historically, you do see the increase in recreational drugs before you see increases in some of the harder drugs."

The annual survey found the number of teens in grades 9 through 12 who reported drinking alcohol in the last month rose 11 percent last year, with 39 percent — about 6.5 million teens — reporting alcohol use. That's up from 35 percent, or about 5.8 million teens, in 2008.

For pot, 25 percent of teens reported smoking marijuana in the last month, up from 19 percent.

Until last year, those measures for pot and alcohol use had been on a steady decline since 1998, when use hovered around 50 percent of teens for alcohol and 27 percent for pot.

The study also found use of the party drug Ecstasy on the rise. Six percent of teens surveyed said they used Ecstasy in the past month, compared with 4 percent in 2008.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587708,00.html

I think one of the things to consider is possibly that "trying alcohol" many times is a result of the parents letting their kids have a taste of beer.  

This study is a little different, because it talks about regular use.  And even this study shows more teens drink than use alcohol. 

OzmO

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Are there studies showing those things in those quantities are harmful?  (Except for liberalism, which is clearly a mental disorder.)   :)

Don't know, maybe.  What I am getting at is, many things can be proven to be literally harmful however, in many cases they are just slightly harmful to the point of inconsequence.  

Just googled: white bread harmful effects.  Lots of links. 

OzmO

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This study is a little different, because it talks about regular use.  And even this study shows more teens drink than use alcohol.  

Yep, but I really think some of it is from parents.  I think if pot was legal it would be held in the same regard as hard liquour becuase of the strength of its impact vs just having a beer and therefore parents wouldn't readily let their children try some as I hope they wouldn't  with hard liquour.

I wonder if there is a study showing hard alcohol vs beer vs pot with teens, also differentiating whether they got it from their parents or not.  

Dos Equis

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Don't know, maybe.  What I am getting at is, many things can be proven to be literally harmful however, in many cases they are just slightly harmful to the point of inconsequence.  

Just googled: white bread harmful effects.  Lots of links. 

I agree.  There are probably a plethora of things that, if "studied," could produce some evidence of harmful side-effects. 

That said, I do think these studies do tend to show that marijuana isn't harmless.  I think that's an important factor if legalization of marijuana will lead increased use by kids. 

OzmO

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I agree.  There are probably a plethora of things that, if "studied," could produce some evidence of harmful side-effects. 

That said, I do think these studies do tend to show that marijuana isn't harmless.  I think that's an important factor if legalization of marijuana will lead increased use by kids. 

Yeah, regardless of which study they do seem to indicate a potential for increased use. 

There also might be many more angle to this too. 


Dos Equis

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Yep, but I really think some of it is from parents.  I think if pot was legal it would be held in the same regard as hard liquour becuase of the strength of its impact vs just having a beer and therefore parents wouldn't readily let their children try some as I hope they would they would with hard liquour.

I wonder if there is a study showing hard alcohol vs beer vs pot with teens, also differentiating whether they got it from their parents or not. 

I agree some of it is from parents.  I doubt that's where most of it comes from.  

OzmO

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I agree some of it is from parents.  I doubt that's where most of it comes from.  

Sounds logical, but I am not so sure because the 80% figure is from teens that have "tried" alcohol. 

Hugo Chavez

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I don't think the studies conclusively prove anything.  I do think they tend to dispel the notion that marijuana is harmless. 
who said it was harmless? ::)  Most drugs can be abused and become dangerous including a great deal of shit pushed by the big pharmaceuticals.  That's kind of a big no shit there buddy.  Hell, just look at a small little thing like sugar, it isn't even a drug and it probably causes more damage to people than pot ever will. 

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I agree.  There are probably a plethora of things that, if "studied," could produce some evidence of harmful side-effects. 

i believe excessive studies deliver harmful side effects.

Roger Bacon

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Most Americans just abuse food...

Hugo Chavez

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Most Americans just abuse food...
BB supports the criminalization of food ;D

Soul Crusher

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No - that would be michelle obama and her flash mob of nanny state commies at the usda, fda, etc.

Hugo Chavez

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No - that would be michelle obama and her flash mob of nanny state commies at the usda, fda, etc.
bb approved :D

Dos Equis

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Most Americans just abuse food...

Truth.   :-\

Dos Equis

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Gary Johnson: Face reality, legalize pot
By Gary Johnson, Special to CNN
July 7, 2011

(CNN) -- In 2002, I became aware of a woman who had already served more than six years of a 25-year prison sentence. Her crime? She was addicted to codeine, and she had fraudulently written herself more than 100 prescriptions for Tylenol III.

It seemed to me that this woman had already served far too much time in prison -- in fact, more than a person would likely serve if convicted of second-degree murder -- so I used my authority as governor of New Mexico to release her.

This sort of real-life example might have been difficult to envision 40 years ago, when President Richard Nixon publicly declared his intention to wage "a new, all-out offensive" against drugs. Back then, many Americans believed that tougher enforcement of drug laws would put an end to drug abuse in the United States once and for all.

But some, even within his own party, thought Nixon was going too far by involving the federal government in personal, private behavior. Raymond Shafer, for example, was the former Republican governor of Pennsylvania and Nixon's choice to lead his handpicked National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse. Composed almost entirely of anti-drug conservatives, this commission was expected to issue a report supporting Nixon's new policies.

However, that isn't what happened. When the commission released its report in 1972, it recommended, in particular, against the criminalization of marijuana, arguing as follows: "The criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use... the actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion of the law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only with the greatest reluctance."

This report received little media attention, and unfortunately, it had no impact on public policy. By the mid-1980s, virtually 100% of elected politicians from both parties supported the war on drugs in its entirety. Intellectual arguments against prohibition, however, did not die with the Shafer Commission.

William F. Buckley and Milton Friedman, two of the most respected conservative intellectuals of the late 20th century, were among the drug war's high-profile critics. These great thinkers did not argue that recreational drug use should be celebrated -- far from it! Instead, they argued that the prohibition of drugs was causing far greater harm to society than drug abuse itself. And they were right.

Bennett: Legalizing drugs would be a mistake

When I ran for governor of New Mexico in 1994, I promised to bring a common-sense business approach to government. Everything was going to be a cost-benefit analysis -- how much of taxpayers' money are we spending, and what are we getting for the money we spend?

As governor, I was astonished to learn that half of what we were spending on law enforcement, courts and prisons was drug-related, and yet illegal drugs were cheaper, stronger and more available than ever. After further study, it became obvious to me that the drug war had created a lucrative black market and was enriching and empowering violent gangs and cartels. In many ways, it was like alcohol prohibition all over again, with similarly disastrous results.

I decided I simply couldn't allow the status quo to continue unchallenged, so in 1999 I became an advocate for legalizing marijuana and adopting harm reduction strategies for dealing with abuse of harder drugs (including prescriptions). I've been making these arguments ever since, and in recent months they have been resonating more strongly than ever.

The drug reform movement got a big boost last month when an international commission released a report criticizing the war on drugs. The Global Commission on Drug Policy was a 19-member commission that included Kofi Annan, a former U.N. secretary general; George Shultz, President Ronald Reagan's secretary of state; and Paul Volcker, a former chairman of the Federal Reserve.

Drug cartels, organized crime won the War on Drugs

The report's conclusions are clearly stated: "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world. Fifty years after the initiation of the U.N. Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and 40 years after President Nixon launched the U.S. government's war on drugs, fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed."

Study these issues and I bet you'll agree that the Global Commission on Drug Policy is right. The Department of Justice reported that, in 2008, 2.3 million people were in our country's jails and prisons. Yet it is clearer than ever that the worldwide supply of drugs can never be wiped out -- no matter how strongly prohibitions are enforced.

If Republicans are truly serious when they talk about liberty and fiscal responsibility, and if they truly do their homework on the drug war, many will soon join me in my call for rational drug policy reform in the United States.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Gary Johnson.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/07/johnson.legalize.pot/index.html?hpt=hp_t2