Author Topic: Which of the GOP candidates has the best chance of beating Obama in your opinion  (Read 14111 times)

Straw Man

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yeah, maybe.  Actually if i did bet the parameters of the bet would have to be worked out first.  but, i wouldn't ever bet my account over someone else.  It's kind of stupid IMO, because it doesn't stop a person from creating another one and posting on it.  However, losing my account might be a problem because i am a moderator.  

But the bottom line here is:

State budgets are not mostly labor and benefits.  And although many of those benefits are costing more than planned for its only a small part of the reason some states are in trouble.  

Additionally, left unchecked, 333333  can be a nazi/commy level propaganda machine.  Which is sad, considering there is no need to be.  

the mods could attempt to something about this


OzmO

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the mods could attempt to something about this



No way lol  I don't get paid enough to turn this into:  getbig.factcheck.org

Straw Man

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No way lol  I don't get paid enough to turn this into:  getbig.factcheck.org

you don't have to do it but you could warn him about spamming this board with bullshit

OzmO

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We would need to know what was included with this and what was excluded, but in general I would agree that salaries and benes are not necessarily the cause of state fiscal problems.  And given declining revenues, it stands to reason the salaries and benes would go down as well.  This does not mean that salaries and benes are not the largest expenditure for a state.

I agree it's a graph with out details and we know how they can be skewed.

But doesn't it make sense?  More people are unemployed, more underemployed, (in the private sector) so in the end less tax revenue is collected.  combined that with no decrease in spending and presto!  You have deficits.

OzmO

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you don't have to do it but you could warn him about spamming this board with bullshit

Nah. if people are so subject to bush league BS they deserve it.  And if they haven't figured out by now that 33333 often embellishes and talks out of his ass then they never will.  And 33333 isn't the only person here that does that.  Other people do to.  It's no biggie really.  I am not going to be the Bull Shit police 24/7.

Just every now and then.   :)

Skip8282

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Not really Skip, you don't typically talk out of your ass.  So i don't necessarily need some magic link.

The conversation got started when 33333 stated that most of the budget goes to labor and benefits (specifically citing retirement, cost of living raises etc.)

I asked him to prove it and he couldn't and recanted his assertion. 

So I looked around and found this graph that also coincides with a article 333 provided that said  salaries and benefits are about 1/5 of state budgets:



So these are expenditures from permanent employees i am assuming.  i don't see how you can count the labor involved in a construction project when those people working there aren't employed by the state or are part of the states benefit plan.

It seems logical that the decrease in state revenue comes form the decrease in tax revenue from UE and underemployment.




No, expenditures can be part-time or full-time people - you'd have to look at the budget.  Sometimes they just use a whole or fraction of FTE (Full Time Employee), like 16.5 FTE's (or some such).

Yeah, now we're getting into the hazy "how do we want to look at things".  PA's budgetary woes are kinda - sorta indicative.  Pension funding, within the next 5 or 6 years, is going to have to jump (and huge).

One camp is going to tell you that greedy state workers are demanding too much, retiring too early, etc.  They'll probably hit you with a school district where the average pay is well over the state average (we'll ignore that in order to have an average you have to have both a high and low).

Another camp is going to tell you that the pension has been underfunded since day 1, they are paid less in "real-wages" when inflation is factored in, the equation has been the same since whenever, etc.  And given that pensions are typically underfunded, they'll hit you with the low numbers.

Most likely scenario - it will jump up, but no where near the hundreds of millions being projected.

IMO, when I've looked at the overall picture, the percentage changes for state workers are relatively the same just about across the board - hence my claim that I probably agree that state workers are not solely at fault.  There's always room for improvement though.  Most of us don't have pensions anymore and teachers can move to a 401K like the rest.

Projected numbers are some of the worst to look at.  If you're evaluating a pension do they project people living to 75 or 95?  What are they factoring for market returns on the pension money?  What are they projecting inflation to be?  It's a whole pain in the a$$.

Skip8282

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I agree it's a graph with out details and we know how they can be skewed.

But doesn't it make sense?  More people are unemployed, more underemployed, (in the private sector) so in the end less tax revenue is collected.  combined that with no decrease in spending and presto!  You have deficits.


It makes sense, but most states can't run a deficit.  I believe there are two who can, but most state constitutions forbid it.  One way or another, they have to balance their sheets.

Straw Man

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Nah. if people are so subject to bush league BS they deserve it.  And if they haven't figured out by now that 33333 often embellishes and talks out of his ass then they never will.  And 33333 isn't the only person here that does that.  Other people do to.  It's no biggie really.  I am not going to be the Bull Shit police 24/7.

Just every now and then.   :)

so you deserve it too?

look how much time you wasted to just get this guy to attempt to post something to support his claim

I do undertand that you don't want to waste your time policing this board and I certainly don't blame you for that

OzmO

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so you deserve it too?

look how much time you wasted to just get this guy to attempt to post something to support his claim

I do undertand that you don't want to waste your time policing this board and I certainly don't blame you for that

I am sorry what i mean by that "subject to" is really "buy into"  so if they buy into his BS they deserve it.

I enjoy 3333 for the most part as well as 99% of the people on this board.  So a lengthy exchange like that is no biggie.   And because of that, along with Skips input i learned a little bit.    

Straw Man

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I am sorry what i mean by that "subject to" is really "buy into"  so if they buy into his BS they deserve it.

I enjoy 3333 for the most part as well as 99% of the people on this board.  So a lengthy exchange like that is no biggie.   And because of that, along with Skips input i learned a little bit.    

gotcha

OzmO

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For 333333 because he too stupid to comprehend basic English




We would need to know what was included with this and what was excluded, but in general I would agree that salaries and benes are not necessarily the cause of state fiscal problems. And given declining revenues, it stands to reason the salaries and benes would go down as well.  This does not mean that salaries and benes are not the largest expenditure for a state.

Soul Crusher

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LOL.   And when state budgets dont come back since the economy does not come back - at what point do salary, benes, pensions become an issue?   



LOL.   This is the funniest shit I have heard in a long time - especially from someone living in Cali.   

OzmO

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LOL.   And when state budgets dont come back since the economy does not come back - at what point do salary, benes, pensions become an issue?   



LOL.   This is the funniest shit I have heard in a long time - especially from someone living in Cali.   

You charge failed, and now you are back to you lame ass coward dance.

Soul Crusher

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You charge failed, and now you are back to you lame ass coward dance.

LOL - Vallejo Cali - do you live near there?   

OzmO

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LOL - Vallejo Cali - do you live near there?   

man up, boy. 


OzmO

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http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2011/01/21/more-on-states-going-bankrupt



more of your dumb bull shit antics.   ::)

Sorry bro, you are now categorized as too tedious to deal with lately. 

You have only strengthen's Straw point about you. 

I am sure there is an aid package in NYS for remedial reading classes.

Soul Crusher

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Ozmo knows more than this guy who actually ran L.A. 






Soul Crusher

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more of your dumb bull shit antics.   ::)

Sorry bro, you are now categorized as too tedious to deal with lately. 

You have only strengthen's Straw point about you. 

I am sure there is an aid package in NYS for remedial reading classes.


LOL - coming from Cali - your insistance that worker pay and benes has little or no roll in the issues of their finances is so beyond ludicrous its not even dabatable.   

Soul Crusher

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Public Employees' Cadillac Health Care Plans Are Bankrupting States And Localities

August 08, 2011

By Josh Barro

 
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With stimulus money running out and the economy stagnant, state and local governments are under severe financial strain. So how can states and localities continue to afford to pay for ultraexpensive health plans for their workers?

Some insist these “Cadillac” plans are a figment of the right-wing imagination. But in a new report just out from the Manhattan Institute, I show that employees of state and local governments get health benefits that are significantly more generous than is typical in the private sector. The average government worker earns $4.66 per hour in health benefits, compared to just $2.08 per hour in the private sector.

That’s partly because public employees are more likely to get health insurance through work. But even when you just compare workers getting health benefits, the average benefit is higher by $1,300 per year for a government worker taking single coverage, and $2,100 for family coverage.

Why are government benefits more expensive? Partly it’s because government workers tend to pay a smaller share of their insurance premiums - roughly 15%, rather than the 25% that is typical in the private sector. And partly it’s because the government plans tend to be plusher, with lower co-payments and deductibles and shorter waiting periods for coverage.

It hasn’t always been this way. As recently as 1996, there was almost no gap between the average health insurance premium in the public and private sectors. Since then, the cost of public employee coverage has grown at a pace 20% faster than in the private sector. While private employers have responded to runaway health care inflation by adjusting their health benefits, too many public employers have failed to adapt.

The situation in New York is particularly extreme. Most city workers pay no contribution at all toward their health insurance premiums. City and state workers are also eligible for free or heavily subsidized health benefits in retirement, including after they become eligible for Medicare - a benefit that is rare in the private sector.

Some states are making progress on containing costs. A new law drawn up by Gov. Chris Christie and legislative Democrats in New Jersey will significantly raise employee contributions for health insurance, particularly for higher-paid government workers. And the contract that Gov. Cuomo recently reached with the Public Employees Federation will bring similar changes for some public workers here in New York. Cost-saving reforms have also been enacted in Indiana, Massachusetts, Ohio and Wisconsin.

But at the municipal level in New York State, most public workers still pay little or nothing toward their own insurance. A recent report by the Citizens Budget Commission estimated that if New York City employees were required to pay 10% of insurance premiums for single coverage and 25% for family coverage - levels below the private sector average - the city would save $600 million per year, enough to pay thousands of teachers’ salaries.

Public employees should contribute on roughly the same terms seen in the private sector. But governments should also look for ways to reduce the total cost of health benefits. In Indiana, the state government has implemented “consumer-directed” health plans that are designed to encourage employees to be more cost-conscious when consuming health care. By decreasing usage, these plans have achieved roughly a 15% cost reduction, with the savings divided among the government and the workers.

Whatever reform path Mayor Bloomberg and others decide on, we can’t go on like this. We have seen at agencies like the MTA what happens when unsustainable labor costs run up against weak revenues - you get layoffs and deteriorating service. The Cadillacs are heading off a cliff.




Original Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/08/08/2011-08-08_public_employees_cadillac_health_care_plans_are_bankrupting_states_and_localitie.html




OzmO

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LOL - coming from Cali - your insistance that worker pay and benes has little or no roll in the issues of their finances is so beyond ludicrous its not even dabatable.   
::)

kcballer

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The fact that 333 is an American citizen makes me sick.  He's a poor excuse for a human being. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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The fact that 333 is an American citizen makes me sick.  He's a poor excuse for a human being. 

Coming from a marxist stooge - fuck you and go live in NK or cuba you commie rat.   Leave me alone and get your greedy fucking self out of pocket and bedroom. 

You leftist parasites and leeches have no claim to my income or wealth. 

kcballer

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Coming from a marxist stooge - fuck you and go live in NK or cuba you commie rat.   Leave me alone and get your greedy fucking self out of pocket and bedroom. 

You leftist parasites and leeches have no claim to my income or wealth. 

Haha your income and wealth is because of me and all the other Americans.  Don't believe me? Go live on an isolated island and tell me how much you get "paid" fu*k head. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Haha your income and wealth is because of me and all the other Americans.  Don't believe me? Go live on an isolated island and tell me how much you get "paid" fu*k head. 

Moron - tell me what you did to add to my wealth and income that you feel you have a claim to it.