Did Dorian retire just before "Palumboism" had a chance to set in?

[dyslexic]

all these old shits look decent in close up of the abs


on stage story changes


look at that old bearded bber with the paralyzed hanging face

Andreas Cahling....

[honest]

Milo's was pretty conservative compared to many 1.5 grams off season,precontest he was higher, his real danger point as a guru was from his insulin and excessive diuretic use.

[ESFitness]

how much did milos use?

realy curious, dont care much for the rest.

I seriously doubt milos used half of what Nasser used, as I've spoken to them both off and on over the years.... although I've spoken to neither for the past 9+ years. Nasser and Milos were the two guys (the ONLY two guys) who'd give me the time of day when it came to answering my questions regarding insulin use when I was a 17yr old kid.

[Natural Beast]

i also said he is not natural in before pics but its not the vein that gives him away its the hardness and fullness of the muscle that only comes with steroid use... but i said its possible to build a physique like that on low dosages

[HandsomeMOFO]

no YOU should wake up moron

You are a sad dumb fuck.   There are people who like like this (early years) roid free, and yes even white guys.

[HonestBob]

You are a sad dumb fuck.   There are people who like like this (early years) roid free, and yes even white guys.

QFT.

Some of you guys on this board live in a world of delusion.  You can be as funny as fuck when ragging the shit out of each other, but when it comes to gear and what can be achieved most of you seem clueless. 

Get this in your heads - there are countless guys out there who look much better than the Yates "before"pic who have never taken steroids.  I know plenty of guys who love training, who are not "bodybuilders" in anyway, who look "better".  Better meaning "more drug like" - harder, fuller etc in their better bodyparts.  And yet these guys can't hold a candle genetically to Mr Olympia Dorian Yates. 

This constant internet BS that Dorian has weak genetics is gibberish. He may not have had Wheeler's aesthetic genes, but the man was born to be lean and muscular in a way that us mere mortals can only ever dream of. 

[dogbowl]

my goodness the natties here have some menstrual breakdowns,jesus

Breakdown?  Hardly.  There are bullshit theories in nearly every thread.

no shit, after years you managed to get there.

This is called 'moving the goal posts'.  First it was only possible with drugs, but now it's possible, except it's slower?   Well, of course a natural lifter is going to progress much more slowly than a multiple Mr Olympia winner.    Your theory might be good as a general rule of thumb, but it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny (which even you seem to admit).

It's also very difficult to argue with people who are so (deliberately?) vague. Take this for example:

What you have to look at in the pic of young Dorian is not the size or the leanness. It's the specific look of the muscles, the pop, the veins, the skin.

It's a 'specific look', the pop (the what?  it's unrelated to size or leanness but it's visible here?), the veins (what about them? it's not even a clear photo), the skin (what about the skin?  are you sure the things you are seeing in the skin are not visual artifacts?)  If you think this particular physique is above what is possible by any natural lifter in history (IMO a bizarre claim), you'll need to be more specific about what you are seeing.  

[gib]

He definitely stopped just as he was getting polumboism. Also sometimes polumboism will actually reveal itself after guys retire so let's see if guys like J get it, although it
might just be due to lower grade GH whereas new generation guys like J are more likely to have the
pharma-grade stuff.

[falco]

I seriously doubt milos used half of what Nasser used, as I've spoken to them both off and on over the years.... although I've spoken to neither for the past 9+ years. Nasser and Milos were the two guys (the ONLY two guys) who'd give me the time of day when it came to answering my questions regarding insulin use when I was a 17yr old kid.

Drop some of those insulin numbers please.

[falco]

Milo's was pretty conservative compared to many 1.5 grams off season,precontest he was higher, his real danger point as a guru was from his insulin and excessive diuretic use.

Do you have numbers about his insulin usage? And what about big nasser?

[ProudVirgin69]

Best I can do, just taken.

Kudos for posting a picture, but i hope you can see that this is not the same "look" as Dorian.  You look like a good natural.... he looks like a juicer on a small cycle

[dyslexic]

QFT.

Some of you guys on this board live in a world of delusion.  You can be as funny as fuck when ragging the shit out of each other, but when it comes to gear and what can be achieved most of you seem clueless. 

This has basically been my recurring themology regarding this board. Amen.

I don't want to be to hard on anyone, but I wish some of the guys here would really try to educate themselves by any means possible. I don't care if it is watching YT videos. I'm not going to say they are right or wrong, I am saying for you to use ANY means necessary before you start ranting about what you *think* you know.

Trust me when I say, there are plenty here that *do* know what they are talking about, but the proportion of those in "the know" and those who are just gibbering is completely disproportionate.

Some of us older guys have had to learn from trial and error. We didn't have the internet and book stores at our fingertips.

What's the remainder's exuse?

[Omega]

Also in relation to his arms. Dorian is big boned. Look at size of his wrists.
Makes the muscles look dispropionate

[Mawse]

Dorian all natural, "great genetics" = world class ped response and ability not to sick from mega dosing

[galeniko]

QFT.

Some of you guys on this board live in a world of delusion.  You can be as funny as fuck when ragging the shit out of each other, but when it comes to gear and what can be achieved most of you seem clueless. 

Get this in your heads - there are countless guys out there who look much better than the Yates "before"pic who have never taken steroids.  I know plenty of guys who love training, who are not "bodybuilders" in anyway, who look "better".  Better meaning "more drug like" - harder, fuller etc in their better bodyparts.  And yet these guys can't hold a candle genetically to Mr Olympia Dorian Yates. 

This constant internet BS that Dorian has weak genetics is gibberish. He may not have had Wheeler's aesthetic genes, but the man was born to be lean and muscular in a way that us mere mortals can only ever dream of. 

nobody here said dorian has bad genetics.duh.

and you know those countless guys are honest because?

you have your opinion, others have their opinions,its all good.

[galeniko]

Breakdown?  Hardly.  There are bullshit theories in nearly every thread.

This is called 'moving the goal posts'.  First it was only possible with drugs, but now it's possible, except it's slower?   Well, of course a natural lifter is going to progress much more slowly than a multiple Mr Olympia winner.    Your theory might be good as a general rule of thumb, but it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny (which even you seem to admit).

It's also very difficult to argue with people who are so (deliberately?) vague. Take this for example:
It's a 'specific look', the pop (the what?  it's unrelated to size or leanness but it's visible here?), the veins (what about them? it's not even a clear photo), the skin (what about the skin?  are you sure the things you are seeing in the skin are not visual artifacts?)  If you think this particular physique is above what is possible by any natural lifter in history (IMO a bizarre claim), you'll need to be more specific about what you are seeing.  

the photo is clear enough for me.

thats steroid fullness there, you wouldnt know that as natty.

its not moving th e goalposts, its just very tiresome to post all the little details.

look if you believe he was on nothing there, fine.

[galeniko]

This has basically been my recurring themology regarding this board. Amen.

I don't want to be to hard on anyone, but I wish some of the guys here would really try to educate themselves by any means possible. I don't care if it is watching YT videos. I'm not going to say they are right or wrong, I am saying for you to use ANY means necessary before you start ranting about what you *think* you know.

Trust me when I say, there are plenty here that *do* know what they are talking about, but the proportion of those in "the know" and those who are just gibbering is completely disproportionate.

Some of us older guys have had to learn from trial and error. We didn't have the internet and book stores at our fingertips.

What's the remainder's exuse?

being oldr guy doesnt give any monopoly on final say.

every old guy knows, when you come off, your gains come off too.

its simple as that.

theres ppl who have seen others go from first day in gym to first cycle,to pro card.

doriann ist huge in the early pics, butt you go and show me some naturals who carry more size at that bodyfat.

sure some ppl overrate drugs, but some natties see someone else in the most exposing pose and think they come close, when in reality, they nowhere near close.
so yea all naturals feel free to post a pic emulatig that exact dorian pose,then we will talk.

 

[galeniko]

Dorian all natural, "great genetics" = world class ped response and ability not to sick from mega dosing

hm what if he already actualy worked out there?

[ESFitness]

Drop some of those insulin numbers please.

numbers they gave me were similar for me ... didn't discuss their doses when it came to insulin. talked about getting anabolics to a certain point and after that the only thing that will get you to continue to grow was gh. 4g+ roughly, and never coming 'off' (using test yr round).. which to me, at the time, sounded crazy since I'd been brainwashed into the old school "12-on, 12-off" nonsense... and Nasser saying the only thing that keeps him growing is gh... milos saying anything less than 15iu/day is a waste or gh.

Nasser was pretty lazy. I can't see him doing multiple shots of insulin during the day since his eating habbits were pretty lax... because of the amount of gh, I can see him doing a couple 20iu shots per day.

milos would use the shit all day... I'd bet a shiny new nickel milos used more AAS than Nasser (and Nasser was a heavy user).. the Nasser, milos, and craig titus were to my knowledge the biggest users I've ever known. there was nothing "conservative" in their drugs.... now milos, when he'd 'advise' others, would be a lil more conservative, but for his personal doses, you could multiply that by 3-4.

[thebrink]

no YOU should wake up moron

No, YOU should. Go to any regional amateur wrestling tourney in the west and you'll see tons of 5'6" no necks built like tanks no aas needed. 

[anabolichalo]

No, YOU should. Go to any regional amateur wrestling tourney in the west and you'll see tons of 5'6" no necks built like tanks no aas needed. 

oh brother

[thebrink]

oh brother

sorry bro 

[falco]

numbers they gave me were similar for me ... didn't discuss their doses when it came to insulin. talked about getting anabolics to a certain point and after that the only thing that will get you to continue to grow was gh. 4g+ roughly, and never coming 'off' (using test yr round).. which to me, at the time, sounded crazy since I'd been brainwashed into the old school "12-on, 12-off" nonsense... and Nasser saying the only thing that keeps him growing is gh... milos saying anything less than 15iu/day is a waste or gh.

Nasser was pretty lazy. I can't see him doing multiple shots of insulin during the day since his eating habbits were pretty lax... because of the amount of gh, I can see him doing a couple 20iu shots per day.

milos would use the shit all day... I'd bet a shiny new nickel milos used more AAS than Nasser (and Nasser was a heavy user).. the Nasser, milos, and craig titus were to my knowledge the biggest users I've ever known. there was nothing "conservative" in their drugs.... now milos, when he'd 'advise' others, would be a lil more conservative, but for his personal doses, you could multiply that by 3-4.

My curiosity is because i have seen competitive bodybuilders having low blood sugar issues on 28iu a day (slin) or less, but i have read some getbiggers assuring they were using 150 to 200 iu a day while eating twice daily.

[old-school-lifter]

i laugh when ppl think the "before" pic is natural^^^^^^

QFT

the "before" pic, yates had done quite a few cycles

[old-school-lifter]

Dorian all natural, "great genetics" = world class ped response and ability not to sick from mega dosing

the pic of dorian in jeans witha drink, now THIS is natural