Low Carb/Keto lifestyle for skinny fat and endos?

[The True Adonis]

shit genetics, generally short have no frame to carry any muscle anyway and cos they don't lift or juice.

cold weather lowers test levels, cos you need vitamin d from the sun.

Those genetics are directly tied to the type of diet they consumed for generations.  Fat storage genetics of peace.

[ritch]

shit genetics, generally short have no frame to carry any muscle anyway and cos they don't lift or juice.

cold weather lowers test levels, cos you need vitamin d from the sun.

so why are they so huge and jacked in Iceland then?

[The True Adonis]

so why are they so huge and jacked in Iceland then?

Culture and steroids.

They don`t start out that way.
3-4 years between these pics.




And on their culture of lifting:

[Erik C]

Culture and steroids.

They don`t start out that way.

BS!

[Thong Maniac]

It's about mitigating risk factors for heart disease and stroke when on cycle and in general not compounding them.
High fat diets will increase your bad cholesterol (eating healthy fats is better but still doesn't change the fact that your bad cholesterol will go up regardless) clogging up ur arteries.

Steroids will decrease your good cholesterol levels.
Steroids will increase your Red Blood Cell count and hemocrit making your blood thicker which means your heart has to work harder.
Steroids will increase your resting heart rate, heart working harder again
Steroids will increase blood pressure.
Steroids will made your body weight go up, more work for the heart as well as cause water retention on high fat diet.

Eating high fat will increase blood pressure, as will sodium intake if its too high and also cause bloating.
Eating high protein, high fat will make your kidneys have to work all that much harder.

All in all eating a high fat high protein diet is the worst possible combination for heart disease and stroke when on steroids.

You can research it yourself any doctor or endocrinologist (such as mine with PHD in steroidology) who understands effects steroids and diet on heart will tell u the same.

 



 

Thanks for chiming in bro. However, i was under the impression that its the simple carbs and carbs that increase LDL. My HdL is sky high on hi fat intake, and i thought research shows that Hi fat low carb is the go to approach for people with cholesterol issues.

Keep in mind, when i say hi fat, im still limiting shit meats like burgers meat from the big chains, crap fish, etc. my Hi fat diet is basically lean white fish or salmon, organic Pb and walnuts, grassfed beef and cream, organic eggs and chicken and chicken skin. Lots of veggies and TONS of raw olive oil (not cooked or heated) . Most doctors would say thAt is perfect for someone who wants to keep lipids in check while on cycle unless im missing something.

[Erik C]

I think its very important to focus on your food sources as you mentioned.
When I say carbs I mean good carbs and  I totally discount sugar which is another huge no no for cholesterol problems.
I almost view sugar as a different entity....i.e. legal poison.

I totally agree with you about the kind of diet you outlined which is what generally most serious bodybuilders consume, organic low fat meats, yams potatoes, rice, olive oil etc.
Most peoples idea of keto diet though is very different though, whipping cream , peanut butter, red meat, bacon, mayonaise.....thats a horrible fucking diet.

Best diets on cycle are like chicken rice, fish rice, salad and veg with bit of olive oil etc, something moderate protein, moderate good carbs, low healthy fats.
if bulking red meat is ok, but not really when dieting unless its once in a while.

You get best results that way and its most healthy too for heart and kidneys and body doesn't have to work overtime like your kidneys
 

You're a fucking joke.

[ritch]

Dude you cannot compare eating habits and make ridiculous assumptions about genetic lines and evolution stemming billions of years...and say why these people are like this and those people are like that...etc and obviously there will be exceptions always.....lol

Its way to fucking complex to even think about answering that question even if there was an answer to it in the first place.
The Iceland people are probably Viking descendants, totally different kettle of fish.  

Africans have best fucking genetics in general. No fucking idea why, but they do and they eat wheat.

So do asians and indians who happen to live the longest but are short small fuckers in general.

Just the way it is

was just funnin' you guys man, lol!!!

[ritch]

U funny fucker, come say hello to me at the Arnold in Melbourne. I want autograph 

Fuck man, never been to a show, but this is the one I've always wanted to go to... Haven't taken a winter trip. And weed is legal there therefore I can travel to this place.

Hmmm....

(time to up my gear dose in case I someone knows who I am so I look "real life big" ahahaha...)

[Straw Man]

Thanks for chiming in bro. However, i was under the impression that its the simple carbs and carbs that increase LDL. My HdL is sky high on hi fat intake, and i thought research shows that Hi fat low carb is the go to approach for people with cholesterol issues.

Keep in mind, when i say hi fat, im still limiting shit meats like burgers meat from the big chains, crap fish, etc. my Hi fat diet is basically lean white fish or salmon, organic Pb and walnuts, grassfed beef and cream, organic eggs and chicken and chicken skin. Lots of veggies and TONS of raw olive oil (not cooked or heated) . Most doctors would say thAt is perfect for someone who wants to keep lipids in check while on cycle unless im missing something.

You are correct, recent and even old research confirms this (Gary Taubes goes into it in great detail in Good Calories Bad Calories and the condensed version in Why We Get Fat)

Solid Diet.  Good high quality sources of fat (and no industrial seed oils).  My diet is pretty much the same except I don't like cream though I eat full fat cottage cheese from grass fed dairy almost every day (http://www.kalonasupernatural.com/) and like you I don't heat or cook with olive oil or coconut oil.  I add it to hot food (veggies) after they are cooked.  I do cook eggs in ghee.   For nuts I like macadamia, sprouted almond and pumpkin seeds and sometime almond butter or walnut butter (added to protein drinks).  I eat a lot of sardines too (especially with skin and bones)

[Thong Maniac]

You are correct, recent and even old research confirms this (Gary Taubes goes into it in great detail in Good Calories Bad Calories and the condensed version in Why We Get Fat)

Solid Diet.  Good high quality sources of fat (and no industrial seed oils).  My diet is pretty much the same except I don't like cream though I eat full fat cottage cheese from grass fed dairy almost every day (http://www.kalonasupernatural.com/) and like you I don't heat or cook with olive oil or coconut oil.  I add it to hot food (veggies) after they are cooked.  I do cook eggs in ghee.   For nuts I like macadamia, sprouted almond and pumpkin seeds and sometime almond butter or walnut butter (added to protein drinks).  I eat a lot of sardines too (especially with skin and bones)

What can u cook with (if u cant cook with coconut? I thought that was fine?)

[The True Adonis]

I cook everything in butter or Bacon Fat.  Usually Bacon Fat.

Because it tastes the best.

[Thong Maniac]

So say you try hi fat diet, how long until you start seeing changes in BF? Will u look worse before u look better?

[Big Chiro Flex]

I cook everything in butter or Bacon Fat.  Usually Bacon Fat.

Because it tastes the best.

This is the healthiest fat to cook with (serious), besides maybe coconut or Mac nut oil. And the most delicious, agreed.

[Straw Man]

What can u cook with (if u cant cook with coconut? I thought that was fine?)

I like cooking with ghee.  I'm sure coconut oil is fine as long as it doesn't get really hot for a long time.
I don't like the taste of stuff cooked in coconut which is why I don't do it (though for some reason I like it adding it to already cooked food).
Another person mentioned MacNut oil and I like that too

I don't fry much of anything and I'm not much of a cook and I'm also not on a Keto diet (i.e low protein and very high fat).
I just prefer to limit carbs most of the time but I'm not strident about it.  I'll eat a sandwich or pizza or pasta on occasion.
I'll eat a bit of basmati rice, potato's etc..mostly post workout  
If I were trying to get leaner I would cut all of that out.  I'm just trying to be healthy.
My diet most closely resembles what these people recommend (not exactly though):  http://perfecthealthdiet.com/

[Van_Bilderass]

Steroids will decrease your good cholesterol levels.


 

Interesting post by "Rex Feral" from professionalmuscle:

You guys really focus too much on HDL. The research doesn't substantiate your focus.

The first thing that makes low HDL virtually useless as a predictor in an androgen using population is upregulated reverse cholesterol transport. If the job of HDL that we we are primarily concerned with is reverse cholesterol transport and androgens upregulate reverse cholesterol transport then how can you argue that a low HDL for an androgen using exercising bodybuilder should be judged on the same scale as a natural sedentary person?

Example - "By lowering high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, testosterone contributes to the gender difference in HDL cholesterol and has been accused to be pro-atherogenic. The mechanism by which testosterone influences HDL cholesterol is little understood. We therefore investigated the effect of testosterone on the gene expression of apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I), hepatic lipase (HL), scavenger receptor B1 (SR-BI), and the ATP binding cassette transporter A1 (ABCA1), all of which are important regulators of HDL metabolism. Testosterone led to a dose-dependent up-regulation of SR-BI, which was assessed on both the mRNA and the protein levels. As a functional consequence, we observed an increased HDL(3)-induced cholesterol efflux from macrophages. At supraphysiological dosages, testosterone also increased the expression of HL in HepG2 cells. These data suggest that testosterone, despite lowering HDL cholesterol, intensifies reverse cholesterol transport and thereby exerts an anti-atherogenic rather than a pro-atherogenic effect."

This also tells us what we should be concerned with. It is not HDL but rather cholesterol efflux capacity.

Example - "It is unclear whether high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol concentration plays a causal role in atherosclerosis. A more important factor may be HDL cholesterol efflux capacity, the ability of HDL to accept cholesterol from macrophages, which is a key step in reverse cholesterol transport. We investigated the epidemiology of cholesterol efflux capacity and its association with incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease outcomes in a large, multiethnic population cohort. We measured HDL cholesterol level, HDL particle concentration, and cholesterol efflux capacity at baseline in 2924 adults free from cardiovascular disease who were participants in the Dallas Heart Study. In contrast to HDL cholesterol level, which was associated with multiple traditional risk factors and metabolic variables, cholesterol efflux capacity had minimal association with these factors. Baseline HDL cholesterol level was not associated with cardiovascular events in an adjusted analysis. In a fully adjusted model that included traditional risk factors, HDL cholesterol level, and HDL particle concentration, there was a 67% reduction in cardiovascular risk in the highest quartile of cholesterol efflux capacity versus the lowest quartile. Cholesterol efflux capacity, a new biomarker that characterizes a key step in reverse cholesterol transport, was inversely associated with the incidence of cardiovascular events in a population-based cohort."

That all but proves, on some 3000 people, that HDL does not matter and cholesterol efflux capacity does. These are normal people also not using androgens with upregulated efflux.

One more time for those who find this hard to accept given their constant obsession with their HDL while on androgens. "Cholesterol-efflux capacity, which is a marker of HDL function that measures reverse cholesterol transport, is inversely associated with incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease in a large population of patients healthy at baseline. The findings, say researchers, support 'retiring' the HDL cholesterol hypothesis—the idea of simply raising HDL cholesterol to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease—and instead should shift the focus to measures of HDL functionality."

HDL is low because you don't need as much of it. It's a biofeedback mechanism and not a reliable indicator of anything in an androgen using population and more and more evidence mounts to prove this is true for the general population as well. I think most people don't know this about androgens.

Rex.

[Thin Lizzy]

So say you try hi fat diet, how long until you start seeing changes in BF? Will u look worse before u look better?

Ask Jimmy Moore, Author of "Keto Clarity," and "Nutritional Ketosis."

[Thong Maniac]

Ask Jimmy Moore, Author of "Keto Clarity," and "Nutritional Ketosis."

Lol come on man...so u really think hi fat low carb is not worthy of trying ?

[Straw Man]

Lol come on man...so u really think hi fat low carb is not worthy of trying ?

you might not need to go to either extreme
I personally find it difficult to eat a really high fat diet

[Thin Lizzy]

you might not need to go to either extreme
I personally find it difficult to eat a really high fat diet

Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.

IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.

[ritch]

Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.

IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.

Too logical for most to understand...

Any diet that excludes any macro is not for us long term, no way.
Then when you do go off the diet, you feel all sluggish and shit, it's just not for most yet some thrive on it.

[Straw Man]

Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.

IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.

I don't count anything but I'm probably at about 50% fat on average

assuming I eat 200 grams of protein and 150 gram of carbs that's only 1400 calories so another 1400 from fat is 50% and there are some days where both protein and carbs are lower

there are some days where I eat whatever I want and carbs are much higher

[Thong Maniac]

Who wants to eat 85% fat? This is the problem with extreme diets. In the long run people don't stick with them.

IMO, a 33% of each macro will work fine. Get your green Leafys, and adequate amounts of protein. Eat some healthy fats and limit starchy carbs. Done.

Right but isnt 1 hi carb meal a week enough to reep health and bf changes a low carb diet brings with still getting in some carbs?

[Van_Bilderass]

Rex Feral from "professional muscle" vs One of the top endocrinologist in the country who is professor of steroidology .....who would you listen too.

Anecdotal evidence  can be useful but in real science its total bullshit.

What about all the other factors like increased RBC? Narrowing of the arteries etc? The point is to reduce as much risk factors as possible, high fat diets don't help.

Having said that its interesting article dude.....by the way I am gonna start Keto tomorrow cos I wanna lose some fat quick....HAHA

That only adresses low HDL readings and their relevance. He doesn't say steroids are beneficial overall. The question is, should androgen users freak out over low HDL specifically.

[Erik C]

Right but isnt 1 hi carb meal a week enough to reep health and bf changes a low carb diet brings with still getting in some carbs?

You don't need any carbs for health. Quite the reverse, carbs cause ill health.

[Erik C]

Rex Feral from "professional muscle" vs One of the top endocrinologist in the country who is professor of steroidology .....who would you listen too.

Anecdotal evidence  can be useful but in real science its total bullshit.

What about all the other factors like increased RBC? Narrowing of the arteries etc? The point is to reduce as much risk factors as possible, high fat diets don't help.

Having said that its interesting article dude.....by the way I am gonna start Keto tomorrow cos I wanna lose some fat quick....HAHA

What university gives out degrees in Steroidology?