Author Topic: Liver Cancer Common?  (Read 3460 times)

Thong Maniac

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3226
Liver Cancer Common?
« on: April 26, 2015, 07:41:16 AM »
With a few recent examples of liver cancer in select amatuer bodybuilders, what drugs are causing this?

I really only use designers with my TRT like dmz 2.0 once or twice a year but im second guessing this now.

My values are elevated on these but when im clean my AlT and ASt are low normal.


Mr Anabolic

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10647
  • Better to die on your feet than on your knees.
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2015, 08:16:45 AM »
You play... you eventually pay.

ether

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2015, 09:04:46 AM »
With a few recent examples of liver cancer in select amatuer bodybuilders, what drugs are causing this?

I really only use designers with my TRT like dmz 2.0 once or twice a year but im second guessing this now.

My values are elevated on these but when im clean my AlT and ASt are low normal.



Primary liver cancer is not common, but not uncommon in patients with chronic liver disease (cirrhosis).

In heathy patients it is incredibly rare.

In pro BBers it is almost exclusively from malignant degeneration of a hepatocellular adenoma (a potentially malignant liver mass).

In men on anabolics, adenomas are very common. PJ Braun has one that ruptured a few years ago, which he lied and said was a hemangioma (congenital liver mass, that almost never ruptures).

Men who abuse anabolics, should get an ultrasound done to look for liver lesions.

PJ needs to see a hepatobiliary surgeon, as I suggested to him and get a liver mri. But he prefers to live in denial and abuse aas. He is playing a very dangerous game

The Wizard of Truth

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9540
  • Fallen Angel
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2015, 09:08:02 AM »
Don't go mad on the orals lads

Thong Maniac

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3226
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2015, 10:40:18 AM »
You play... you eventually pay.

Right but what drugs are causig these lesions

BB

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16659
  • I hope I'm not boring you.
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 10:59:46 AM »
Right but what drugs are causig these lesions

 
I think it's extended heavy abuse, with a big edge toward heavy oral abuse that catches up with people. I doubt which type makes a huge difference. Back when Dianabol was the huge drug, guys would come down with it, and disappear for a while. Same with Anadrol, and now Superdrol. Even Equipoise was shown to troublesome in liver function regard in a study.

WalterWhite

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8648
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 11:05:39 AM »
Right but what drugs are causig these lesions

Estrogen which often spikes while on and off steroids.


Sex hormones and risk of liver tumor.
Giannitrapani L1, Soresi M, La Spada E, Cervello M, D'Alessandro N, Montalto G.
Author information
Abstract
The liver is morphologically and functionally modulated by sex hormones. Long-term use of oral contraceptives (OCs) and anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) can induce both benign (hemangioma, adenoma, and focal nodular hyperplasia [FNH]) and malignant (hepatocellular carcinoma [HCC]) hepatocellular tumors. Hepatic adenomas (HAs) are rare, benign neoplasms usually occurring in young women, the development and the complications of which have been related to the strength of OCs and the duration of their use. HA incidence has fallen since the introduction of pills containing smaller amounts of estrogens. FNH is a benign lesion, most commonly seen in young women, which is thought to represent a local hyperplastic response of hepatocytes to a vascular abnormality. Because of the female predominance and the young age at onset, a role of female hormones has been suggested. Furthermore, a large proportion of women with FNH (50-75%) are OC users. Liver hemangiomas (LHs) are the most common benign liver tumors and are seen more commonly in young adult females. The female predilection and clinical observations of LH growth under conditions of estrogenic exposure suggest a possible role for estrogen in the pathogenesis of LHs. HCC has become one of the most widespread tumors in the world in recent years, representing the sixth leading cancer and the third most common cause of death from cancer. Apart from liver cirrhosis, numerous other factors responsible for its onset have been proposed: hepatitis infections from virus B (HBV) and C (HCV), alcohol, smoking, and aflatoxin. However, regardless of etiology, chronic liver diseases progress at unequal rates in the two sexes, with the major sequelae, such as cirrhosis and HCC, being more frequent in men than in women. These epidemiological data have prompted researchers to investigate the relationship between sex hormones and liver tumors. The human liver expresses estrogen and androgen receptors and experimentally both androgens and estrogens have been implicated in stimulating hepatocyte proliferation and may act as liver tumor inducers or promoters.

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 11:26:18 AM »
Primary liver cancer is not common, but not uncommon in patients with chronic liver disease (cirrhosis).

In heathy patients it is incredibly rare.

In pro BBers it is almost exclusively from malignant degeneration of a hepatocellular adenoma (a potentially malignant liver mass).

In men on anabolics, adenomas are very common. PJ Braun has one that ruptured a few years ago, which he lied and said was a hemangioma (congenital liver mass, that almost never ruptures).

Men who abuse anabolics, should get an ultrasound done to look for liver lesions.

PJ needs to see a hepatobiliary surgeon, as I suggested to him and get a liver mri. But he prefers to live in denial and abuse aas. He is playing a very dangerous game

I agree in part but I am not sure where you are getting your info when you state that adenomas of  the liver are common among steroids users? Adenomas of the liver are rare but are common on other areas of the body. They can be of lipid origin or cancer. They can also be lipid poor and have a higher than normal density (lipid poor) which can lead one to believe they are cancerous. In these cases either a biopsy or a CT scan done with wash out phase can better determine the situation. If the density is more than 10 HU the wash out should be calculated.  Most of the time if it is smaller than 3 cm the Dr will elect to watch it and do a CT scan every 3 to 6 months.

ether

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2015, 11:55:00 AM »
I agree in part but I am not sure where you are getting your info when you state that adenomas of  the liver are common among steroids users? Adenomas of the liver are rare but are common on other areas of the body. They can be of lipid origin or cancer. They can also be lipid poor and have a higher than normal density (lipid poor) which can lead one to believe they are cancerous. In these cases either a biopsy or a CT scan done with wash out phase can better determine the situation. If the density is more than 10 HU the wash out should be calculated.  Most of the time if it is smaller than 3 cm the Dr will elect to watch it and do a CT scan every 3 to 6 months.

Hepatocellular adenoma is completely different from adrenal adenoma

calfzilla

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20790
  • YUMAN FILTH!
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2015, 12:03:50 PM »
With a few recent examples of liver cancer in select amatuer bodybuilders, what drugs are causing this?

I really only use designers with my TRT like dmz 2.0 once or twice a year but im second guessing this now.

My values are elevated on these but when im clean my AlT and ASt are low normal.



I'm like you, natural but run a mild designer cycle every few years when I just want that extra bit. Doubt it is that bad an the liver. Regular extended use of orals is gonna be bad. Most likely even injectibles so while they are safer don't let people tell you they are risk free. I rarely drink so that is big thing too. I have a friend who is under 40 and has liver cancer from abusing alcohol. Will need a transplant to live  :(

Thong Maniac

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3226
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2015, 01:37:27 PM »
I'm like you, natural but run a mild designer cycle every few years when I just want that extra bit. Doubt it is that bad an the liver. Regular extended use of orals is gonna be bad. Most likely even injectibles so while they are safer don't let people tell you they are risk free. I rarely drink so that is big thing too. I have a friend who is under 40 and has liver cancer from abusing alcohol. Will need a transplant to live  :(

Damn what kind of alcohol abuse was he doing? Multiple beers per night?

Dr Dutch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19936
  • The Incredible Dr Dutch
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 01:44:53 PM »
Benign liver adenomas do not get cancerous often, not in people using roids either..

Marty Champions

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36456
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 01:52:49 PM »
Damn what kind of alcohol abuse was he doing? Multiple beers per night?
x2 i wanna know how many beers
A

ether

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 03:44:06 PM »
Benign liver adenomas do not get cancerous often, not in people using roids either..

This is true, malignant degeneration of adenoma is not common.
BUT is is the most common cause of liver cancer is male steroid abusers who do not have liver disease

All comers, HEP C would be the most common cause in BBers who are also probably infected from sharing needles.

How common is AIDS in the BB world?

calfzilla

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20790
  • YUMAN FILTH!
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2015, 05:10:34 PM »
Damn what kind of alcohol abuse was he doing? Multiple beers per night?

I think this. Just hardcore alcoholic loved to party. We are not super close more of an acquaintance for me but still it's like damn liver cancer at 35  :-\

el numero uno

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9405
  • Clean your room, bucko.
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2015, 05:17:20 PM »
I think this. Just hardcore alcoholic loved to party. We are not super close more of an acquaintance for me but still it's like damn liver cancer at 35  :-\

I knew a guy who died from cirrosis this year, 38 years old, rumored to drink alone at nights quite often.

Thong Maniac

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3226
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2015, 05:22:43 PM »
I think this. Just hardcore alcoholic loved to party. We are not super close more of an acquaintance for me but still it's like damn liver cancer at 35  :-\

Man crazy, the beer scene is huge where i live. Craft beers, brewerys all over the place. They front like its semi healthy and im sure the ingredients used are better but damn alcohol is alcohol. Crazy how wrapped up people get with it. My friends still carry on saying how "shit faced" they got and yada yada and i cringe. I wanna be like "dude, u do realize i can go to the store and buy a beer and its no big deal...im 30, not 19 anymore". The way these people carry on, its like they are drinking some illegal cocktail thats super rare and hard to find

el numero uno

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9405
  • Clean your room, bucko.
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2015, 05:25:41 PM »
Man crazy, the beer scene is huge where i live. Craft beers, brewerys all over the place. They front like its semi healthy and im sure the ingredients used are better but damn alcohol is alcohol. Crazy how wrapped up people get with it. My friends still carry on saying how "shit faced" they got and yada yada and i cringe. I wanna be like "dude, u do realize i can go to the store and buy a beer and its no big deal...im 30, not 19 anymore". The way these people carry on, its like they are drinking some illegal cocktail thats super rare and hard to find

I have a couple of friends like that. Never understood why they talk about getting wasted like it was some kind of achievement. ??? lol

tommywishbone

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20507
  • Biscuit
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2015, 05:58:55 PM »
Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.

Up the dose.
a

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2015, 06:00:59 PM »
Hepatocellular adenoma is completely different from adrenal adenoma

Of course they are but they are very rare and are not caused by anabolic steroids and they rarely develop into cancer.

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2015, 06:03:41 PM »
Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.

Up the dose.

Beat me to it.

Knooger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5788
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2015, 06:12:29 PM »
Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.

Up the dose.

Agreed, it's skinny fat little twinks that spread the rumor that PEDs are bad. Take what you want and live like the man you could never be as a natural.

BB

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16659
  • I hope I'm not boring you.
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2015, 06:58:58 PM »
Liver cancer due to PED usage has never been documented. Not once.

Up the dose.

These two sort of fit -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178686 .

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8726841 .


ether

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2314

ether

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: Liver Cancer Common?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2015, 07:24:45 PM »
These two sort of fit -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178686 .

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8726841 .



Bingo.

But the users will deny deny deny

That's ok, they put food on the table  ;D