"Were not coming for your guns", except when they are...

[OzmO]

The "military" ain't doing shit to law abiding 2nd Amendment supporters...as we're all governed and swore oaths to the Constitution and not to Barry fucking Obama and Hil. I'd love to see them try and send us house to house to confiscate. This would all be shortly followed by a civil war...and then camps for the libs.

No kidding.  But we are in "hypothetical land" at the moment.

and then camps for the libs.

lol

[TuHolmes]

No, I mean modern militia will not be able to stop a modern day army.  No doubt, harm could be inflicted on soldiers, but it will not stop them.  Best we could hope for is an insurgent war that depending on the will of the tyrannical government prolly wouldn't last very long.  If we faced them head on we would be crushed faster than any arab army.  

I think the insurgent war is accurate, but really, that's mostly what the American Revolution was.

There is nothing to control if the populace is dead.

Eventually, tyrannical governments pack it in... It's not worth it in the long run.

When it comes to wars, it may take a long time, but the home teams always win.

[Las Vegas]

No, I mean modern militia will not be able to stop a modern day army.  No doubt, harm could be inflicted on soldiers, but it will not stop them.  Best we could hope for is an insurgent war that depending on the will of the tyrannical government prolly wouldn't last very long.  If we faced them head on we would be crushed faster than any arab army.  

It makes it so much more difficult for wolves to wear sheep clothes, when they're faced with guns.

Do you agree with that?

[OzmO]

It makes it so much more difficult for wolves to wear sheep clothes, when they're faced with guns.

Do you agree with that?

I think cliches working in the real world often do better in theory than in practice.  Too many variables.

For example:

So much more difficult as compared to what?

And what if those are really sheep wearing wolves clothing underneath sheep's clothing and the people with guns foolishly believe they will work against, APC's, Tanks, Drones, Seals, and A-10's?

Or that and armed force as the one i just described goes into a rural town of 5000 people.  Do you really think that they having guns is really going to stop anything?  You are right about one thing, they will think twice.....  "ROE's" shot first or not?

[Las Vegas]

I think cliches working in the real world often do better in theory than in practice.  Too many variables.

For example:

So much more difficult as compared to what?

Compared to facing unarmed people.

And what if those are really sheep wearing wolves clothing underneath sheep's clothing and the people with guns foolishly believe they will work against, APC's, Tanks, Drones, Seals, and A-10's?

Or that and armed force as the one i just described goes into a rural town of 5000 people.  Do you really think that they having guns is really going to stop anything?  You are right about one thing, they will think twice.....  "ROE's" shot first or not?

Right away, then, we've found a difference between something involving unarmed citizens vs. armed ones.  Isn't that true?

[OzmO]

It's not a deterent nor a factor.  So there is no point.  

BTW in case you don't know.   I am pro-2nd amendment. 

[Las Vegas]

It's not a deterent nor a factor.  So there is no point.  

BTW in case you don't know.   I am pro-2nd amendment. 

No point in what?

[240 is Back]

did you guys hear about that zombicon shooting in fort myers, this past saturday night?   

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/18/us/zombicon-shooting-fort-myers-florida/

the problem wasn't guns - the problem was letting 20,000 people into a small area with exactly 90 police officers, and allowing them to wear disguises and carry fake guns.  People say cops were ducking behind cars cause they heard bangs, looked up, and saw a hundred guns and didn't know what was what.   Video of the shooter shows him holstering his weapon while walking right past a cop, 4 seconds after firing.  Cop didn't notice him.

[tonymctones]

No, I mean modern militia will not be able to stop a modern day army.  No doubt, harm could be inflicted on soldiers, but it will not stop them.  Best we could hope for is an insurgent war that depending on the will of the tyrannical government prolly wouldn't last very long.  If we faced them head on we would be crushed faster than any arab army.   

who is facing anyone head on anyway?

The whole argument that b/c we as citizens are way out gunned it justifies taking them away is asinine. Even if you believe it, your reaction is to what? Bend over and fucking take whatever they have for you???

[tonymctones]

People aren't gonna freak out about an assault weapons ban, especially one that's been on and off.  If there was any REAL movement (something that actually had a chance) to repeal the 2nd amendment there would be a huge outcry over it and it would immediately fail.  So talking about someone who "would" if "given" the chance in this context is kind of pointless.

Regarding Obama, his record on control from the POV of gun control supporters is pretty shitty.

what youre taking for granted is that: 1. any politician would come out and say they wanted an all out ban even if they did. 2. Rights are rarely taken away in one swipe, they are taken away in bits and pieces.

[headhuntersix]

...which is why the NRA won't give an inch. That's why I don't care about all the loophole sales bs. Gents how many of you have gone to a gun show? Generally speaking it looks like a sons of the confederacy meeting with machine guns. They aren't selling to cholo's or sketchy black dudes. The ones I've been to had ATF checking ID's at the door. 

[JOHN MATRIX]

There is almost always going to be an opposing view point to anything.  Us vs them mentality which is what you display here doesn't get anything done.   Fact is, it wasn't 7 rounds anywhere.  yet you led with that point.  which means you didn't even bother to check.  its like you just regurgitated talking points that someone else fed to you.



I am willing to bet you haven't.  

 


     

yes it was. i believe it was the NY 'Safe Act' which was rammed thru by Cuomo's goons right after Sandy hook. just google 'new york 7 round limit' and you will, find it if you don't believe me.

also, I AM familiar with the stuff you mentioned; i have gone thru the  background check process multiple times, every gun ive bought has required them, as did getting my CC license which also requires fingerprinting and separate checks.

lastly, this may boggle your mind, but there are MILLIONS of American households with kids AND a loaded weapon and in 99.999 % of them nothing happens every day. you only hear about the exceptions, where some idiot left a chambered round, no safety(or safety off) gun sitting where a kid could get it. these are the fools who cause tragedies and give the millions of other responsible ones a bad name when in fact they are the anomalies. the vast majority of (legal)gun owners are extremely rigid about safety and are highly responsible, statistics bears this out.

[OzmO]

who is facing anyone head on anyway?

The whole argument that b/c we as citizens are way out gunned it justifies taking them away is asinine. Even if you believe it, your reaction is to what? Bend over and fucking take whatever they have for you???

That's not my argument at all.  Don't know where you come up that.

[OzmO]

what youre taking for granted is that: 1. any politician would come out and say they wanted an all out ban even if they did. 2. Rights are rarely taken away in one swipe, they are taken away in bits and pieces.

So when they made the seat belts laws those are bits and pieces that eventually will lead to us not being to drive or when they made the cell phone law while driving those are bits and pieces that eventually will lead us to not being able to use cell phones.

Your #2 is straight fear propaganda bullshit in this instance. 

[OzmO]

yes it was. i believe it was the NY 'Safe Act' which was rammed thru by Cuomo's goons right after Sandy hook. just google 'new york 7 round limit' and you will, find it if you don't believe me.

also, I AM familiar with the stuff you mentioned; i have gone thru the  background check process multiple times, every gun ive bought has required them, as did getting my CC license which also requires fingerprinting and separate checks.

lastly, this may boggle your mind, but there are MILLIONS of American households with kids AND a loaded weapon and in 99.999 % of them nothing happens every day. you only hear about the exceptions, where some idiot left a chambered round, no safety(or safety off) gun sitting where a kid could get it. these are the fools who cause tragedies and give the millions of other responsible ones a bad name when in fact they are the anomalies. the vast majority of (legal)gun owners are extremely rigid about safety and are highly responsible, statistics bears this out.

I don't have a problem with law that makes illegal to keep a loaded gun in a house with children.  But if there isn't a law like that I really don't have a problem with it either.  You are still a dumbass if you do have loaded gun with kids in the house and should probably spend a day with a parent whose kid hand an accident with one and killed himself or someone else. 

Earlier I ask you what exactly they doing and so far you have given me inaccurate magazine limit that only exists in 8 states and charged that all these laws only help criminals which I have shown isn't true.  And accusations about people's intentions which isn't anything until something is actually done like a law.

Anything else?

[headhuntersix]

You can have a loaded gun as long as the kids can't get to it....there are ways to ensure its still accessible. Once the kids are older they need to be taught the correct way to handle the weapon ad if the parent judges that their kid is a retard or menace then they need to take appropriate measures but its the not for the state to decide. I never have a round chambered. For me if you do then there is a chance you may actually need the weapon and generally I don't. I only started carrying again after I moved to Texas. Right now open carry is set to hit one Jan.

[240 is Back]

yep, my offspring know the gun is a no-no, but they understand the mechanics, how to clean, all the details.   It's like a vacuum cleaner or surge protecter to them, just another piece of adult equipment to make life good.   There is zero curiosity.   and in the rare event that a magazine falls or an empty holster is lying about, they win $5 everytime they catch daddy slipping with any piece of gun stuff.   Never left a gun in their reach of course, but an empty fanny pack or cleaning kit, anything like that, and I have to pay out cash as punishment lol.

[TheGrinch]

The "military" ain't doing shit to law abiding 2nd Amendment supporters...as we're all governed and swore oaths to the Constitution and not to Barry fucking Obama and Hil. 

actually thats 100% false now.. used to be true..

I personally know a very high ranking military officer who has told me in private that the military is now sworn to uphold ORDERS even if said orders directly go against the Constitution...

[headhuntersix]

As a current high ranking officer...thats bullshit. Nobody within spitting distance of my office would follow ay orders like that...we might go through the motions but its not happening. My oath is to the Constitution not to Obama...if the order is legal ethical and moral I have to follow it. Confiscation of guns would go against the legal part of that as you will never get an amendment passed to make it so. The situation in this country for the 2nd to be repealed would mean we were already in a civil war and I suspect I'd be in the Texas republic's army not the Federal one where that to happen.

[OzmO]

You can have a loaded gun as long as the kids can't get to it....there are ways to ensure its still accessible. Once the kids are older they need to be taught the correct way to handle the weapon ad if the parent judges that their kid is a retard or menace then they need to take appropriate measures but its the not for the state to decide. I never have a round chambered. For me if you do then there is a chance you may actually need the weapon and generally I don't. I only started carrying again after I moved to Texas. Right now open carry is set to hit one Jan.

Works for me.  Still wouldn't have a loaded gun in my house.  Ammo and gun?  yes and all the things you talked about.

[OzmO]

No point in what?

Saying something is going to make a difference (by cliche, principle or argument)  when in fact the result will be the same without any significant delay or obstruction.

[Las Vegas]

Saying something is going to make a difference (by cliche, principle or argument)  when in fact the result will be the same without any significant delay or obstruction.

That is untrue, though.  It couldn't be any less true.  It forces everyone concerned to behave differently.  IT FORCES THEM.  

What else can do that?

[OzmO]

That is untrue, though.  It couldn't be any less true.  It forces everyone concerned to behave differently.  IT FORCES THEM.  

What else can do that?

Are you saying the end result wouldn't be different?

Doesn't matter how they different they behave if the rend result is still the same without significant delay or obstruction

all of which you are suggesting is a complete hypothetical anyway

The fact that we have guns isn't stopping anyone from outlawing them.

What's stopping them is the constitution and the amount of votes and favorable public opinion that it would take to repeal it.

[Las Vegas]

Are you saying the end result wouldn't be different?

Doesn't matter how they different they behave if the rend result is still the same without significant delay or obstruction

Except for the fact that EVERYTHING is a process, and the behavior within DOES determine the result.

all of which you are suggesting is a complete hypothetical anyway

The fact that we have guns isn't stopping anyone from outlawing them.

What's stopping them is the constitution and the amount of votes and favorable public opinion that it would take to repeal it.

Sounds like it would take some dirty doings to change.   Nonstop deception, in many forms.  I can't think of any other strategy that could work (if someone is looking to strategize against gun ownership). 

Can you imagine there might be people, right now, strategizing in that way?

[OzmO]

Except for the fact that EVERYTHING is a process, and the behavior within DOES determine the result.

Are you saying the end result would be different or not?

Sounds like it would take some dirty doings to change.   Nonstop deception, in many forms.  I can't think of any other strategy that could work (if someone is looking to strategize against gun ownership).  

Can you imagine there might be people, right now, strategizing in that way?

There are people right now strategizing ways to make coffee illegal.   Should i be concerned?  No.  People hell bent on making guns illegal?  Should i be concerned?  Not at the moment or any time soon.  

Basically what you and tony have seemed to fall prey to standard fear propaganda.  You are even using absolutes to argue it.  

the 2nd amendment is not going to get over turned people.  

Its sad that the republican propaganda machine has resorted into scaring ignorant rednecks.