Author Topic: Bodybuilding needs to die...  (Read 8770 times)

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39170
  • Do or do not. There is no try.
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2021, 06:45:17 PM »

That's all well and good but to extrapolate the date of first synthesis of a drug to getting it into the hands of some muscleheads on the west coast in 1937 is pure fiction.


I downloaded Paul De Kruif's book, "the Male Hormone" which was published in 1945. He describes in intimate detail the first synthesis of testosterone, first studies on its use, and the long time line it took the world to find out about it. After all, these events took place during the buildup and execution of WWII. In the early 40's most doctors knew nothing about using testosterone therapeutically -it was just too new.


The very first publication about the synthesis of  testosterone wasn't until late August 1937, but it was available for medical use? 

By the way, De Kruif states that methyltestosterone wasn't on the market in 1938.



Well, we'll never know if Reeves used test or methyltestosterone but certainly they were available in his competitive years late 40s and early 50s and others during his movie years in the late 50s and early 60s.

Dokey111

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4332
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #76 on: October 02, 2021, 07:45:36 PM »
talking about Steve Reeves



I believe Reeves did not take chemicals.  You can see photos of him at 15 years old and he had it then.  He was blessed - deal with it!

pamith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8835
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2021, 08:18:56 PM »
Arnold is not happy with those veins

pamith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8835
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2021, 08:22:42 PM »

That 1937 date- where did you get it? Hopefully not Wikipedia, lol.


The best reference I can find about the widespread use of synthetic testosterone is here:


https://www.academia.edu/31712265/The_history_of_synthetic_testosterone


It doesn't look like any widespread use occurred until into the 40's.
It is my understanding that steroids didn't become available to bodybuilders until 1957-1958, so anything prior 1957 was natty

pamith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8835
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2021, 08:25:07 PM »
Actually Arnold’s legs are the right size.  Traditional bodybuilding/physical culture dictated that your arms, calves and neck should all be the same circumference and that your chest measurement should be the equal of both thighs being measured and added together. Arnold’s chest was 57 inches and each leg is 28 1/2 inches.

What many people have become used to seeing is fatass  obese turds with the gut measuring 49 inches and a chest measuring 55 inches and legs measuring 35 inches with calves maybe 18 to 20 inches. These are muscularity obese slobs who deserve to die horrible deaths from overdosing they stayroids. ;D ;D
Bro...

BB

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17774
  • I hope I'm not boring you.
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2021, 08:42:44 PM »
Everyone says the pellet tren was most excellent. I wonder how the version with estrogen would be if not taking out the estrogen, it works great for nicely marbled beef :D


I remember when Synovex (I forget the letter) cattle implants were starting to get noticed in the late 90's, and Kneller, PA, Bill Roberts, Duchaine, and a few other were trying to figure out an easy way to explain how to remove the the estrogenic components from the various series. Most of them surmised that it would be too complicated for the average person, and some even suggested similar to what you wrote above.

The thought was just run a shit ton of it in the bulking years, then get the gyno cut out when competition rang.

--------------------------

Also just because I found it funny, here's DDuchaine getting snippy with Kneller and PA over how to use any of the cattle pellets :/ ;D -

"So fancy-schmansy. Just take the damn pellets, grind them find with a mortal and pestle, get some vet injectable oil vitamins (Jeffers Vet
Supply 800-533-3377) and dump the powder into the oil by popping the top off and inject the mixture. Make sure that you shake the suspension well.

Bruce is one of those armchair experts that needlessly worry aboutpotential sterile, infection, blah-blah-blah. Tony Fitton and I both did
the same thing 12 years ago with Ralgro (Zeranol) and nobody got sick. Look it this way: many current steroid users have injected even less sterile counterfeits into their bodies with no ill effect.

*Zeranol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeranol .

--------------

Pat Arnold on Ralgro -

There is no great mystery about Ralgro (amongst animal scientists at least). It is an anabolic estrogen, a class of compounds (which also includes DES, and steroidal estrogens as well) assumed to manifest their anabolic actions primarily thru stimulation of GH output. Large amounts of estrogenic compounds are markedly anabolic, but due to obvious undesirable side effects are not suitable for human anabolic enhancement.

Small amounts of estrogens are good potentiators of the growth promoting actions of androgens, but the unacceptable risks of inducing negative reactions like gynecomastia make thier usage in this regard not an accepted practice.

For animals a good growth promoting stack might be androgen/progestogen/estrogen (10:10:1 ratio) maybe testosterone propionate/hydroxyprogesterone caproate/estradiol benzoate.

It would work great on humans too, but you would probably be setting yourself up for some nasty side effects (though I am sure their are few that would still find the risk/benefit acceptable)

PA

------------------

Ralgro in real life seems to be mixed, running toward negative in real life human usage.

 

pamith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8835
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2021, 08:54:14 PM »
Why would you want bodybuilding to grow though? The attraction, to me, was always that it was pretty exclusive, big bodybuilders weren't something you saw everywhere. A small club = cooler  :D
Exactly, I don't get this whole obsession with trying to make it mainstream. Having said that, I do miss ESPN coverage of bodybuilding and the Flex magazine workout show

pamith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8835
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2021, 09:02:25 PM »
With that shirt does it mean he takes it “Raw” in the ass?
Bro...

Hypertrophy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6379
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2021, 09:16:47 PM »
It is my understanding that steroids didn't become available to bodybuilders until 1957-1958, so anything prior 1957 was natty


It can be confusing! Testosterone IS a steroid- which is defined as a biologically active molecule with 4 carbon "rings". But it was very hard to get enough natural testosterone from animals and it wasn't until the late 30's that a synthetic, bio identical version was first created. This allowed widespread use to begin. However there are a lot of negative effects of additional testosterone and this caused a bit of hesitancy in clinical use. There was feared a direct link between prostate cancer and testosterone, for example. Controlled human experiments were beginning in the early 40's,  on a fairly small scale. By 1945 things started picking up.


It is highly doubtful any bodybuilder was using exogenous testosterone on any major scale until after ~1945. People seem to forget that all this chemistry was pioneered by the Germans and there happened to be a war going on from 1939 to 1945. It was hard enough to get food in the US, let alone specialized drugs.


Fast forward to the 1950's  where many derivatives of natural testosterone were made available. These are chemically modified forms of testosterone that exhibited more of the anabolic effects with less of the androgenic or masculinizing effects. It is these substances that we associate with the boom in strength and bodybuilding use. Dianabol, brought to market in 1956,  is one of the earliest ones but there are many others with pros and cons in their use.


It s safe to say that from 1956 on, anabolic steroids were becoming a fact of life in strength and muscle building sports. Natty became a distant memory.

bhank

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32382
  • 2024 NPC Charlotte Cup Champion
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2021, 03:42:13 AM »

That 1937 date- where did you get it? Hopefully not Wikipedia, lol.


The best reference I can find about the widespread use of synthetic testosterone is here:


https://www.academia.edu/31712265/The_history_of_synthetic_testosterone


It doesn't look like any widespread use occurred until into the 40's.

Do more research it was already being marketed specifically to bodybuilders in 1937

bhank

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32382
  • 2024 NPC Charlotte Cup Champion
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2021, 03:44:42 AM »
I believe Reeves did not take chemicals.  You can see photos of him at 15 years old and he had it then.  He was blessed - deal with it!

You belief doesn't change the facts he was a user

Testosterone propionate is mentioned in a letter to the editor of Strength and Health magazine in 1938. This is the earliest known reference to an anabolic steroid in a U.S. weightlifting or bodybuilding magazine. Steve Reeves won his first major bodybuilding contest, Mr. America, at the age of 21 in 1947

bhank

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32382
  • 2024 NPC Charlotte Cup Champion
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2021, 03:47:48 AM »
It is my understanding that steroids didn't become available to bodybuilders until 1957-1958, so anything prior 1957 was natty

Well you are wrong and off by 60 years

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753

bhank

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32382
  • 2024 NPC Charlotte Cup Champion
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2021, 03:49:09 AM »

That's all well and good but to extrapolate the date of first synthesis of a drug to getting it into the hands of some muscleheads on the west coast in 1937 is pure fiction.


I downloaded Paul De Kruif's book, "the Male Hormone" which was published in 1945. He describes in intimate detail the first synthesis of testosterone, first studies on its use, and the long time line it took the world to find out about it. After all, these events took place during the buildup and execution of WWII. In the early 40's most doctors knew nothing about using testosterone therapeutically -it was just too new.


The very first publication about the synthesis of  testosterone wasn't until late August 1937, but it was available for medical use? 

By the way, De Kruif states that methyltestosterone wasn't on the market in 1938.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753

Van_Bilderass

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17089
  • "Don't Try"
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2021, 08:20:35 AM »


--------------------------

Also just because I found it funny, here's DDuchaine getting snippy with Kneller and PA over how to use any of the cattle pellets :/ ;D -

"So fancy-schmansy. Just take the damn pellets, grind them find with a mortal and pestle, get some vet injectable oil vitamins (Jeffers Vet
Supply 800-533-3377) and dump the powder into the oil by popping the top off and inject the mixture. Make sure that you shake the suspension well.

Bruce is one of those armchair experts that needlessly worry aboutpotential sterile, infection, blah-blah-blah. Tony Fitton and I both did
the same thing 12 years ago with Ralgro (Zeranol) and nobody got sick. Look it this way: many current steroid users have injected even less sterile counterfeits into their bodies with no ill effect.

*Zeranol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeranol .

--------------


For animals a good growth promoting stack might be androgen/progestogen/estrogen (10:10:1 ratio)

Thanks, you always find interesting stuff. Seems like Duchaine didn't even run it through a syringle filter at first . Just shake it up lol.

Doing some pure progesterone has become popular in bodybuilding/wellness circles. You take a female progesterone cream and put it on your balls. Supposedly increases sex drive, gives harder erections and imparts a sense of calm and wellbeing. Haven't tried it yet  :D

bhank

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32382
  • 2024 NPC Charlotte Cup Champion
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2021, 08:30:55 AM »
Thanks, you always find interesting stuff. Seems like Duchaine didn't even run it through a syringle filter at first . Just shake it up lol.

Doing some pure progesterone has become popular in bodybuilding/wellness circles. You take a female progesterone cream and put it on your balls. Supposedly increases sex drive, gives harder erections and imparts a sense of calm and wellbeing. Haven't tried it yet  :D

Finaplex was just Tren no estrogen pellets you did need to use a syringe filter and you would have to reheat on occasion it was not always painless as concentration would often vary but you knew it was legit

youandme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11063
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2021, 08:43:45 AM »
Exactly, I don't get this whole obsession with trying to make it mainstream. Having said that, I do miss ESPN coverage of bodybuilding and the Flex magazine workout show

Same. That was a cool era. I have to say also the supplements back then I preferred to what is on the market now. EAS and Metrx MRPs and Ultimate Orange.

Humble Narcissist

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 32574
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2021, 09:06:20 AM »
Well you are wrong and off by 60 years

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753
Bullshit!  Bodybuilders and lifters didn't start using until the late 50's and it's clear as day with the physique and performance gains at that time.  No bodybuilder or lifter was using anything in the 20's 30's or 40's.  This is simply a way of diminishing natty accomplishments.

IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39170
  • Do or do not. There is no try.
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2021, 10:47:55 AM »
Bullshit!  Bodybuilders and lifters didn't start using until the late 50's and it's clear as day with the physique and performance gains at that time.  No bodybuilder or lifter was using anything in the 20's 30's or 40's.  This is simply a way of diminishing natty accomplishments.

Bhanky...man know.

There is definitely a good chance some top bodybuilders in the know were using Test in the late 40s onwards.

Before then?  Unlikely.

Use definitely preceded D-bol.

BB

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17774
  • I hope I'm not boring you.
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2021, 11:50:52 AM »
Bhanky...man know.

There is definitely a good chance some top bodybuilders in the know were using Test in the late 40s onwards.

Before then?  Unlikely.

Use definitely preceded D-bol.

I tend to agree, although John Grimek was asking about Methyltest as early as 1943, according to York Barbell historian John Fair.

Peary Rader of Ironman mentioned hearing about steroids right after WWII from orderlies that were working in hospitals dealing with the wounded.

After the war, through about late 1950 when the FDA stepped in, Methyltest 10mg tablets were sold over the counter -

https://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=methyl+testosterone&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicy7zo6K7zAhUcEFkFHSD2Ab44ChDoAXoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=methyl%20testosterone&f=false .

https://books.google.com/books?id=7iwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA65&dq=methyl+testosterone+sex&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPys786K7zAhWsFlkFHUMKAJMQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=methyl%20testosterone%20sex&f=false .

Could've certainly attracted the curious.

That De Kruief changed the game, there were articles like "Hormones for He Men" in Newsweek, and  "Can Man's Prime be Prolonged?" in Reader's Digest. Business Week covered the "testosterone race" in 1946.

------------------------------

Also, while Ziegler is generally associated with Dianabol, he was hooking the York guys up with Testosterone and Syndrox ( an early methamphetamine ) from about 1954 - . The amphetamine one is interesting, from many accounts it really wrecked some of those guys.

.


IroNat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39170
  • Do or do not. There is no try.
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2021, 11:58:13 AM »
Fascinating.^

Thanks for posting.

Dokey111

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4332
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2021, 12:10:07 PM »
You belief doesn't change the facts he was a user

Testosterone propionate is mentioned in a letter to the editor of Strength and Health magazine in 1938. This is the earliest known reference to an anabolic steroid in a U.S. weightlifting or bodybuilding magazine. Steve Reeves won his first major bodybuilding contest, Mr. America, at the age of 21 in 1947

I don't think you know much of anything.

B_B_C

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2669
  • change is the lot of all
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2021, 12:15:46 PM »
Bodybuilding already is dead. Nobody follows the sport other than bodybuilders trying to look like that, ex bodybuilders, and schmoes. I went to the Olympia a couple years ago, and the audience was made up almost entirely of mutant freak looking people with obvious mental illness.
and what was your ailment?
c

The Scott

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22552
  • I'm a victim of soicumcision!!
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #97 on: October 03, 2021, 07:52:33 PM »
and what was your ailment?

One would suppose it was a momentary lapse of sound judgement as regards today's "bodybuilding".  IOW, he went to a contest.

Taffin

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17060
  • "From the pucha to the culo..."
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2021, 04:08:37 AM »
Fascinating.^

Thanks for posting.

x2
T

BB

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17774
  • I hope I'm not boring you.
Re: Bodybuilding needs to die...
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2021, 04:49:40 AM »
Fascinating.^

Thanks for posting.

x2

.


Bill Starr talking about starting his time at York (would be 1966, from his 1981 book "Defying Gravity")  -



"The late sixties saw an explosion of the drug culture across the nation, and the influx of all types of pharmaceuticals into the sport of weightlifting closely coincided with the national trend. The use of drugs in weightlifting became a Pandora's box. Once it was opened, there was no stopping the rampant use.

Step one was usually the steroids. Next the lifters became acquainted with amphetamines to increase performance on platform, barbiturates to insure adequate rest before a contest, muscle relaxants following a hard workout or contest. This often gravitated to the "recreational drugs": marijuana, acid, THC, mescaline, and on and on through the PDR and even a few not listed. Doctor Zeigler was the first medical person in the country to publically condemn this drug overdosing. But it was too late. Once a lifter had used steroids to get stronger and uppers to lift better, there was little chance of turning back.

Overdosing became the order of the day. If 20 mgs. of D-bol a day put 5% on a total, then wouldn't 50 or 100 mgs. produce 10 or 15% gains? Such was the logic. Instead of one upper for a meet, an unsure athlete would drop three, or four, or would you believe 30?"

"Goon Juice - The uppers were abused most often, or at least the overdosing was the most visible. In 1966, there was a liquid form of amphetamine available called syndrox. It was nicknamed "Goon juice" and aptly so. The recommended dosage was one capful of the fluid (which tasted much like cough medicine). This was the equivalent of 20-30 mgs. of amphetamines and that's a lot of cups of coffee. No one ever settled for one capful, however. After 45 minutes to an hour the initial rush had worn off and the lifter would feel a let-down. Back to the bottle for more juice.

Another hour, another letdown (relatively speaking of course), another hit and it was off to Loo-Loo Land. Lifters would stalk the warm-up area shouting, cursing, screaming. Some would appear deranged, their pupils the size of quarters, their mouths so dry they couldn't spit on a bet. Some formerly mild-mannered types would Jekyll-and-Hyde-out and become complete, raving idiots both on and off platform. Super Circus. Some lifters stayed awake for days following a contest. My first introduction to goon juice was a nightmare. I used it at the Philly Open in 1967, my first big Eastern competition. I lifted better than I had ever done, placing second behind Frank Capsouras. I was very pleased with myself until I got half way back to York. While sitting in the back seat I began cramping. These were not everyday, garden variety-type cramps as I usually experienced, but severe ones that took my breath away. Not only did every major muscle group lock up, such as my lumbars, quads, and traps, but every minor group got in the act. My abs, fingers, toes, behind my ears, even small muscles in my face began to cramp. I stayed in a painful sweat for over an hour. I had shot my potassium level all to hell and threw my electrolyte balance out of wack. I had put my body in an extremely dangerous position. I wasn't too far from having my heart muscle cramp, and that would have been bye-bye Billy.

What really amazes me when I look back at some of the severe drug abuse by so many top lifters in those days is that someone did
not get killed. I can say that some gave it their best shot."