Author Topic: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!  (Read 5495 times)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2022, 12:54:03 PM »
 :-\

OAK

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2022, 12:57:34 PM »
😮

OAK

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2022, 12:58:40 PM »
:-\

Flex never looked the same after his car accident.

Amazing comeback nonetheless.


sculpture

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2022, 12:59:12 PM »
Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore ???



Bwahahahahhaahahaha

joswift

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2022, 01:01:43 PM »
No I'm not trolling at all. If Bob Paris was black he'd be no Flex Wheeler, but in the mix with Paul Dillett, Cormier, Robby Robinson, Surge Nubret, Lee Haney, Charles Clairmont but because he's white he gets elevated by white guys as having the best aesthetics. BTW that's no shade to Bob, he had a beautiful physique...No homo he's a taller Zane with more muscle that was punished for his homosexuality. Should have placed higher but he wasn't beating Haney, not enough muscle on his tall physique.

Bob Paris is what people want Chris Bumstead to be but he's not. Bumstead is flawed as fuck. Skinny neck, short biceps insertions, average calves (especially for a white guy) and separation in his legs is mangled.

Israelites aka Negros have an overwhelming advantage when it comes to aesthetics in bodybuilding, this is why imo judging is less on aesthetics and more on a mixture of size and aesthetics and bodybuilders would have had to remain smaller and in general white guys rule on size in bodybuilding but it's not as big as the gap between black and white in aesthetics. Allowing Dorian to win in 94 took bodybuilding off the rails and devalued aesthetics and promoted size over aesthetics. It also was the beginning of overlooking guts in the name of size. This ended when Rhoden won the O when they punished a Mr. O for having a gut which had never been done.

Now Mr. O's and bodybuilders in general are back to having flat abs after 24 years of guts.

99% of them have no calves.

Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2022, 01:06:36 PM »
And that may be what this comes down to.

Ronnie was, from the stat you provided, 55-lb heavier than Flex.

That's over 20% heavier!

To me, it comes down to the question is: was Flex over 20% more aesthetic, or conditioned...or some combination of the two?

Then I would go with Flex.

But by your standard, if we take sheer freaky mass out of the picture, then Flex would almost universally be regarded as superior in terms of aesthetics.

My question is: how else was bodybuilding expected to evolve?

It seems to me it made sense that bodybuilding would continue to reward mass monsters until finally, we got these new categories.

Bodybuilding is hard to judge.

Also another point to add - I think most of the poses where Flex looks prettier than Ronnie are from the front. I'd be hard pressed to give him any back poses over Ronnie.

For me personally, I had never seen anything like Ronnie in 2003.

Here's the thing with the "evolution" of bodybuilding. Size doesn't mean it's moving in the right direction when it comes at the expense of aesthetics and details like separation, conditioning , tie-ins and guts. So to me, bodybuilding peaked in 93. While 98 and 99 were good years I question the validity of body parts in those years and after 99 it went downhill hard. Then there were just some good bodybuildefs sporadically since then. Wolfe, Dexter, 09 Jay, 07 Victor, Phil, 2012 Kai, 2018 Rhoden.

I'm not a fan of Ramy's physique, it's littered with flaws. Curry's legs from the rear are shameful in terms of definition and size. He was the best of a mid grade bunch.

Anyway, you're right, from the rear, Ronnie dominated Flex in terms of width, conditioning and size.
To get back to evolution, bodybuilding should have always been about bringing in the least flawed or most perfect physique and each era would have had their athletes. I think we can safely say that Ramy, Jay, Nick Walker and 03-06 Ronnie do not display an ideal combo of size, aesthetics, conditioning, separation. Imo, they display Size with all the other stuff sprinkled in to varying degrees and that has been the problem visually and health wise.

I don't think anyone would be complaining if these guys would all come in looking like their versions of 93 judging standards. Bodybuilding would be alot more popular and alot more bodybuilders would still be alive.
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Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2022, 01:07:51 PM »
:-\

That 98 pic of Flex is so fuzzy you can barely make out his face. STOP. Lol
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Rambone

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2022, 01:08:14 PM »
Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore ???



Damn. He’s darker than Wesley Snipes and Orville Burke combined.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2022, 01:10:07 PM »
99% of them have no calves.


Exactly and aesthetics in bodybuilding is based on the Greek ideal which was arms, calves and neck all measured the same. How can you be aesthetic when you have 22" arms and 15" calves? You can't. This is where Paris separates himself from the others. Flex was blessed with a light bone structure and he had a narrow waist & hips , he also had narrow clavicles. Great symmetry and great muscle roundness but his lat spreads sucked , especially his rear , he all but disappeared in the ab-thigh. In terms of real aesthetics & symmetry Chris Cormier smoked Flex by far. He's like a 250lb Bob Paris he's a hell of a lot closer to the Greek Ideal than Flex and Ronnie. Hell so is Dillett but he's has other issues.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2022, 01:10:43 PM »
That 98 pic of Flex is so fuzzy you can barely make out his face. STOP. Lol


Look at the delts in the comparison.  :-X

Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2022, 01:13:28 PM »
99% of them have no calves.

I won't say 99% but alot. We don't see the Dilletts, Aaron Bakers, Vince Taylors of the world anymore. IMO calves absolutely should be marked down if they suck just like any other bodypart. Same thing if you're like Ramy and have 35 inch quads and 20 inch calves.  Not very aesthetic and the difference takes away from the overall look and he should be docked for it.
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Bevo

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2022, 01:20:33 PM »
1998 Ronnie beats every single version of flex

Flex is the better physique, Ronnie is the better bber

Like dexter and Shawn Ray, Shawn has the better physique while dexter was the better bber

Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2022, 01:23:10 PM »

Exactly and aesthetics in bodybuilding is based on the Greek ideal which was arms, calves and neck all measured the same. How can you be aesthetic when you have 22" arms and 15" calves? You can't. This is where Paris separates himself from the others. Flex was blessed with a light bone structure and he had a narrow waist & hips , he also had narrow clavicles. Great symmetry and great muscle roundness but his lat spreads sucked , especially his rear , he all but disappeared in the ab-thigh. In terms of real aesthetics & symmetry Chris Cormier smoked Flex by far. He's like a 250lb Bob Paris he's a hell of a lot closer to the Greek Ideal than Flex and Ronnie. Hell so is Dillett but he's has other issues.

I appreciate Cormier alot more now than I did then. He was screwed on many placings because he had no stand out parts which goes to show how aesthetic he really was. Chris had zero structural flaws. The only tangible thing he lacked was back density. When he got larger to compete with Ronnie, he lost his great conditioning which is a shame.
Chris even had a great set of calves.
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Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2022, 01:24:42 PM »
1998 Ronnie beats every single version of flex

Flex is the better physique, Ronnie is the better bber

Like dexter and Shawn Ray, Shawn has the better physique while dexter was the better bber

I've heard this saying many times, but what does it really mean? Shouldn't the best physique = the best bodybuilder? Why are these not one in the same?
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joswift

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2022, 01:26:28 PM »
I appreciate Cormier alot more now than I did then. He was screwed on many placings because he had no stand out parts which goes to show how aesthetic he really was. Chris had zero structural flaws. The only tangible thing he lacked was back density. When he got larger to compete with Ronnie, he lost his great conditioning which is a shame.
Chris even had a great set of calves.

If a bodybuilder walks out onstage and your eyes are drawn to a body part, thats a flaw

Ramis legs are way too big

Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2022, 01:28:26 PM »
If a bodybuilder walks out onstage and your eyes are drawn to a body part, thats a flaw

Ramis legs are way too big

I really like your first sentence. That's how it should be.
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Bevo

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2022, 01:31:45 PM »
I've heard this saying many times, but what does it really mean? Shouldn't the best physique = the best bodybuilder? Why are these not one in the same?

My view on that is Shawn and flex are physiques you aspire to in terms of classic lines , aesthetics/pleasing to the eye, they aren’t “big” in terms of modern bbing


Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2022, 01:44:12 PM »
My view on that is Shawn and flex are physiques you aspire to in terms of classic lines , aesthetics/pleasing to the eye, they aren’t “big” in terms of modern bbing

That saying more than proves that judging went the wrong direction. Now, keep in mind Dexter never beat Shawn but they never competed against each other in their peaks . Dexter had way more flaws than Shawn structurally and muscularly.

Dexter was bigger, dryer and wider.

 Shawn was aesthetically better, more separated, flowed better and was able to display his physique slightly better.
Dexter had higher lats and shitty calves.
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tommywishbone

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2022, 01:46:27 PM »
I was there almost the entire time.

1993. The end.

Everything else… just too much oil. Trying too hard to chase 250 pounds of Dorian, Ronnie, whoever.
a

Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2022, 01:47:49 PM »
I was there almost the entire time.

1993. The end.

Everything else… just too much oil. Trying too hard to chase 250 pounds of Dorian, Ronnie, whoever.

Tom, please :( please  :(
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Grape Ape

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2022, 01:57:16 PM »
If a bodybuilder walks out onstage and your eyes are drawn to a body part, thats a flaw

99% of the audience is there to do just that, and it's the only part covered.
Y

Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2022, 01:59:14 PM »
There are poses that Flex can pull off that very few others can that says alot about Flex. I'm not even sure these poses have names but n the first video I attached at :33, :39, :46 and :54 If a bodybuilder can pull these poses off and look great in them, you're very aesthetic. No one is better than Flex in these poses. Also Flex is one of few that looks great in all variations of the most muscular. Most look good in only crab or just hands clasped.
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Bevo

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2022, 02:02:33 PM »
That saying more than proves that judging went the wrong direction. Now, keep in mind Dexter never beat Shawn but they never competed against each other in their peaks . Dexter had way more flaws than Shawn structurally and muscularly.

Dexter was bigger, dryer and wider.

 Shawn was aesthetically better, more separated, flowed better and was able to display his physique slightly better.
Dexter had higher lats and shitty calves.

My points exactly!

As good as dexter was, like you said, no calves, high lats making his torso odd in certain poses

No doubt he’s better than Shawn when it comes to competing/wins, but Shawn flowed, classic lines, vacuum pose, the physique most guys would like to look like


Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2022, 02:06:40 PM »
My points exactly!

As good as dexter was, like you said, no calves, high lats making his torso odd in certain poses

No doubt he’s better than Shawn when it comes to competing/wins, but Shawn flowed, classic lines, vacuum pose, the physique most guys would like to look like

This exposes judging, it shouldn't be like this. Ronnie at 249 vs. Flex at 232 I can see a back and forth but Shawn should win every time and he did. Not sure a 94 Shawn would beat an 08 Dexter. For me he would, not sure what the judges would do.
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Wiggs

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Re: No one and I mean NO ONE beats this version of Flex Wheeler!
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2022, 02:21:11 PM »
BTW, for those interested 98 Arnold Classic or excuse me, Arnold's Rock & Roll Bodybuilding Championship   ;D
   
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