Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pobrecito]

It's not sense arguing with you all. There is a picture of Yates blatantly showing fatty glutes and non-existant hamstrings. Yet you try to play it off saying "Yates was always dry." OBVIOUSLY, he wasn't. Yates knew he had to play the size game in 97 to keep up with Nasser and therefore he came in without his normal conditioning. Ronnie in 2003 was 23lbs heavier than Dorian in 97 with BETTER conditioning, BETTER shape, and BETTER separation. Any argument of 93 Dorian vs 2003 Ronnie is laugable. Dorian conceded 30lbs of muscle, it would be all over the second Ronnie walked out.

Dorian said the only man who could beat him was Flex Wheeler. Well, Ronnie Coleman IS Flex Wheeler, but just bigger than Yates

[Hulkster]

but what would someone do who is bigger and in better condition?

not if they had inferior arms, quads, chest, taper, vascularity and striations!

[suckmymuscle]

News Flash....they both kick major ass.

  Exactly. And this is why I keep posting on this thread: the blatant disrespect for a bodybuilder who was as dominant as Dorian is shocking. Even if you think his physique sucked, calling him a "construction worker", or "bricklayer" is downright stupid. You might have some reason to believe that Dorian didn't deserve to win most of his Olympias. I could accept if Dorian lost in 1994 or 1997, because, even though he was still the most muscular man onstage, he wasn't his best in balance and conditioning. Ok. but saying that Dorian was "overrated" is just pathetic.

  Bodybuilding contests are won on the mandatory poses, and the bottom line is that Dorian was the most thickly man of his era, and took the concepts of density and dryness that remains, even nine years after his retirement, hard to emulate. Seriously, how can a Mr.Olympia be "overrated" when he makes all the other pros look like amateurs when it comes to muscularity and dryness? How can he be overrated when, at a height of 5'10 and 260 lbs, he still manages to have a flt stomach and etched serratus and abdominals? You are entitled to think that Ronnie is better, but at leat show some respect, as a bodybuilding fan, for a man who was obviously one of the best bodybuilders of all times. Myself, I give Ronnie major props and consider his 1998 Olympia physique one o te best ever. In 2003, and even though Ronnie was lacking as a complete bodybuilder, I still give him major props for his incredible muscularity.

After Ronnie retires, who is gonna take the mantle of awesome, huge Mr. Olympias?  My guess is Vic or Gunther.  Dex maybe, but he is not a mass freak.  Jay???  He doesn't seem to be improving much.  Getting larger, but his taper and symmetry is suffering.  Any opinions?

  Well, Jay has a genuine shot, because he has the second best back in the circuit, and we all know that Mr.Olympis have great backs. He also seems to nail his conditioning more often than the other pros, so time will tell.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

Well, Ronnie Coleman IS Flex Wheeler,

at times their physiques were amazingly similar..

[NeoSeminole]

pobrecito, tell me about it! Most people consider Dorian's best showing either the 93 or 95 Mr. Olympia. He had better conditioning and didn't have the torn bicep in 93. However, he weighed 30 lbs less than 03 Ronnie. This difference in muscularity cannot be ignored. Dorian in 93 would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Shawn Ray lost to Dorian. He was larger in 95, but he sacraficed his conditioning and had a torn bicep. I feel the only version of Dorian that could compete with Ronnie would be his 95 form. Here is my assessment if 95 Dorian competed against 03 Ronnie.

Ronnie in 03 would defeat 95 Dorian in muscularity and symmetry. Dorian had a torn biceps and wide waist. I've always maintained that Ronnie's calves were a liability but unbalanced, asymmetrical biceps are WORSE than only unbalanced calves. Dorian's wide waist would also hurt him. His waist was wider than Ronnie's even though he weighed over 20 lbs less. Ronnie's weight advantage compensates for his gut, which he kept under control during pre-judging. Dorian also lost some of his trademark conditioning. He looked smooth from the front and his lower back wasn't crisp like 93. Ronnie's combination of muscularity, conditioning, and symmetry would beat Dorian.

[IceCold]

not if they had inferior arms, quads, chest, taper, vascularity and striations!

when has vascularity ever matterd?

as a fan a flex wheeler, who virtually has zero vascualirty, you should know better.

hardness and dryness seem to count for a lot.   the judges seem to reward that than most anything. 

ex. branch warren winning those 2 shows last year. 

[pumpster]

when has vascularity ever matterd?

as a fan a flex wheeler, who virtually has zero vascualirty, you should know better.

hardness and dryness seem to count for a lot

Even after you've been schooled you show over and over again that you don't listen, still go on and on like a parrot-these are YOUR arbitrary, preferred criteria that you've decided for everyone else are more important. Hello?

Others who actually understand BB have more balanced perspectives involving numerous factors-hardness and dryness are two of many criteria, that are quite frankly, squandered on an unaesthetic, unbalanced, blocky, unrefined physique. Get it yet? Say hello to reality your hero fails on most of the other factors. 

Yates thoroughly dominated using multiple, balanced criterion: they almost look like "before" and "after" shots. Where are Yates upper-body cuts, refinement & size relative to Coleman in the first shot?

[pumpster]

Quote from: Hulkster on Today at 01:18:18 AM
holy shit his taper suffered in 1997

his back is fuucking huge. 

You seem to have real problems understanding and discerning different attributes. Yates' width & taper are buried by Coleman's. Yates has advantages in back dryness and density, but his blockiness hurts him in taper.

[IceCold]

Even after you've been schooled you show over and over again that you don't listen, still go on and on like a parrot-these are YOUR arbitrary, preferred criteria that you've decided for everyone else are more important. Hello?

Others who actually understand BB have more balanced perspectives involving numerous factors-hardness and dryness are two of many criteria, that are quite frankly, squandered on an unaesthetic, unbalanced, blocky, unrefined physique. Get it yet? Say hello to reality your hero fails on most of the other factors. 

Yates thoroughly dominated using multiple, balanced criterion: they almost look like "before" and "after" shots. Where are Yates upper-body cuts, refinement & size relative to Coleman in the first shot?

schooled by who?  you?  for someone who says that haney and yates are 'b tier' olympians, your account should be banned based on stupidity.  

why do you think that i havent acknowledged dorian's other flaws.  check the other posts - have numerous times.  it seems that the judges award the guys who come in very big, hard, and dry.  i already listed some examples - gunter beating ronnie at the 2002 GNC show, nasser at the 99 AC, and mike francois beating flex at the AC.  

nasser and gunter have many more flaws than dorian and yet they still won.  perhaps what YOU think constitues a winner, the judges think something else.  wrong again, pumpster.

when will you realize that whatever knocks you have on dorian it doesnt matter - his strengths overcame whatever weaknesses you claim?  am i right?  well, his competitive record and the judges opinion makes it seem i am.  [NOT YOUR PRECEPTION.  YOU ARENT A JUDGE.  
/b]

comparions of the first pic.

legs - they look pretty even in THAT shot.  seem to similar in size and cuts.  in THAT shot.

arms- coleman's are bigger, but dorian's look ok.  other than the side tricep pose, ronnie will win arms over dorian.

forearms - not very important but even.

chest - dorian's is hard and straited, but coleman's looks bigger and fuller.  however, he had gyno that year, so he automatically looses on chest.

delts - practically even in that shot.  they arent kevin levrone, so their delts are fairly equal.  acutally, in the report for the 98, peter mcgough said ronnie's delts were flat.  whatever that means.

abs- there is where dorian wins.  his abs are more prominent.  you can see dorian is harder and dryer.  he also outweighs coleman that year by about 10 lbs.  it may look like coleman is bigger but he didnt even weigh 250 where as yates was about 260 in 93.

this isnt 2003 where coleman has an edge in muscularity.  the only thing a 98 coleman has on a 93 dorian is biceps, quad cuts, and a better taper.  all of which he had on dorian before he was mr. olympia.  


pumpster, are you forgetting that ronnie HIMSELF said that in 98 he wouldnt have beaten dorian.  what more do you need than it coming from ronnie himself?  your expert opinion?  sure.

how about saying 'owned' with a british accent.

[IceCold]

dont know why that whole thing came out bold. 

[pumpster]

when will you realize that whatever knocks you have on dorian it doesnt matter - his strengths overcame whatever weaknesses you claim?  am i right?

Unfortunately, you are wrong-this thread isn't to recite history as to how politics may have helped Yates in comparisons with other BBs that have precious little to do with comparisons involving Coleman. We're trying to discuss various attributes objectively-that doesn't mean your disclaimer that 32 pages ago you once acknowledged Yates' weaknesses before mentioning a few of his strenghts 22 times!

[TheGoldenPrince]

Unfortunately, you are wrong-this thread isn't to recite history as to how politics may have helped Yates, we're trying to discuss various attributes objectively-that doesn't mean your disclaimer that 32 pages ago you acknowledged Yates' weaknesses before mentioning a few of his strenghts 22 times!

HAHAHAHAHA.

[IceCold]

Unfortunately, you are wrong-this thread isn't to recite history as to how politics may have helped Yates in comparisons with other BBs that have precious little to do with comparisons involving Coleman. We're trying to discuss various attributes objectively-that doesn't mean your disclaimer that 32 pages ago you once acknowledged Yates' weaknesses before mentioning a few of his strenghts 22 times!

read my last post.  i've done that many times before.  for whatever reasons, you never seem to read them or say how i dont even post them.  typical, you've done that from the beginning when ever you loose an argument.


politics have helped coleman just as much as they've helped dorian. 

[pumpster]

If you want to be objective, accurately assess Yates' many weaknesses as well as Coleman's dominance in most areas. The stage is yours..

[TheGoldenPrince]

If you want to be objective, accurately assess Yates' many weaknesses as well as Coleman's dominance in most areas. The stage is yours..

So you can see Coleman's dominance but not Mentzer's at the '80 O? Monster irregularity...

[IceCold]

If you want to be objective, accurately assess Yates' many weaknesses as well as Coleman's dominance in most areas. The stage is yours..

at least ive acknowledge yates flaws - taper, his bi's, wierd quads, but you've never said one thing about coleman's.

is ronnie perfect?

[IceCold]

So you can see Coleman's dominance but not Mentzer's at the '80 O? Monster irregularity...

more proof that pumpster is black and hates white people.

affirmative action ended a long time ago.

[pumpster]

more proof that pumpster is black and hates white people.

affirmative action ended a long time ago.

Since i'm not black you've just reconfirmed your idiocy-your cognitive problems are now well documented. 

at least ive acknowledge yates flaws - taper, his bi's, wierd quads, but you've never said one thing about coleman's.

Then add those many flaws into your fan-worshiping one-dimensional comments regarding Yates' dryness. They go together!

Go back and read what i've already said about shortcomings. For example on back I've always said they're comparable, with different attributes. On back i'd actually go with Yates but it's just a matter of taste. I'm not a huge Coleman fan, but his dominance over Yates is glaring.

[pumpster]

Enjoy this while pondering Yates' flaws..

More feedback on Yates' inadequacies:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=90718.0

[IceCold]

nice dance moves.   


we already know what yates flaws are. as i said before and i will say again, his strength's compensated for them.  what dont you understand about that?

[Hulkster]

more proof that pumpster is black and hates white people.

affirmative action ended a long time ago.

IceCold seems to be obsessed with saying people are black.

therefore, he must be black.

 

I am as snow-white canadian as you can get despite being "accused" of being black just because I think this:



is way better than this:



 
No, its not because I am black..It is because I have this thing called a brain...

[Hulkster]

. as i said before and i will say again, his strength's compensated for them.  what dont you understand about that?

because he looks sub-par when compared to many other bodybuilders that he shared the stage with. He was bigger, not better.

Why can't you understand that the judging was based on attributes (size, width over quality) that should not have been emphasized so much:



it shows how overrated dorian was.  And the reason for this "overratedness" was the judging system itself. Yates huge flaws in major bodyparts (arms, quads, full body taper, etc) were not penalized.

instead he was rewarded...

[Hulkster]

Enjoy this while pondering Yates' flaws..

excellent video.

It re-affirms the obvious: that the 98/99 Ronnie (particularly the 99 version) is simply better than Yates - the muscular shape and detail is astounding.

that front double bi shown from the 99 british grand prix (with the great transition) is incredible:




Also notice the quad shot from the AC at the end. unreal.

[nicorulez]

  Thanks! Your posts are also some of the best around. You post a lot less than either Hulkster or Pumpster, but your posts are far more concise and to the point than theirs. To be honest with you, I think that you and PraetorFenix are intellectually superior to both Hulkster and Pumpster; if you two posted more, the Dorian side would have a much harder time defending Dorian.

  I completely agree! I just turned 27 years old. The other day, I went to pick up my 14 year-old nephew in school, and I was saddened to realize that he was making the same gay jokes and insinuations with his friends that we did throughout this thread. I mean, here's a bunch of grown men acting like a bunch of Junior High pubescent boys. How pathetic!

  I also want to apologize for having threatened you before. I wasn't really going after you, as I'm sure you know, and you wouldn't call the Feds for something this stupid. I also wnt to apologize for that time when I dared you to post you medical degree. In fact, from our political debates, it became obvious to me that you were intelligent enough not only to earn a medical degree, but maybe enough to win a doctorate in the hard science. My shock did not come from the fact that you proved me wrong, but rather that you took it seriously enough to actually post it! I obviously pushed the line, and I'm sorry.

  As for the rhomboids ontroversy: I don't know. I do have a degree in physiology, but I went through anatomy quickly and forgot it. The thing is that I've read several articles in FLEX, MuscleMag, Ironmen, MD, etc, saying that the rhomboids are visible. So, I assumed that all of them couldn't possibly be wrong. I mean, they are about building muscles, so it's incredible that they don't even know what musles are visible! In fact, even the M.D who writes a column for MuscleMag once remarked that the rhomboids are visible. So, how can you blame a layman fos stating that?

  Nice to get things straightened out.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Thanks man.  Listen, you make excellent points a lot of times.  I think that anybody who states that Dorian or Ronnie would demolish the other is delusional.  They are tremendous.  I actually think a virtual contest of Ronnie (prime) vs Dorian (prime) in an unbiased contest would be give or take.  It would depend on the judges on that particular day.  Regardless, this thread for the most part has been tremendously fun.  BTW, I was shitting you; I was not going to call the Feds.  Hell, if everybody on these boards called a lawyer or law enforcement for every perceived slight, our legal system would be more deranged and damaged than it is already.    Another thing, in the end Sucky, who really cares if the rhomboids are visible or not.  Hell, it is nice to debate (at times you got under my skin and flaming occurred  ) someone who is obviously knowledgable.  Hell, I am a M.D. and I have made mistakes when it came to human anatomy or physiology.  The human body is too complex for any one person to completely understand.  I am sure that my knowledge of steroids is very basic and minor compared to many of the competitors on the board.  However, my knowledge of side effects of Advil  are definitely great.  I have a couple of old ladies in fact who are on hemodialysis, because they liked their arthritis meds.  Anyway, have a great weekend all.  Peace.

[Hulkster]

I am going to cry now..