October 7 - 3 Year Anniversary

[Van_Bilderass]

Its the name Hamas gave to the Oct 7th slaughter.

The people of Gaza voted for Hamas but perhaps they were forced to do so. I sympathize with them, though many Palestinians have brought radical attitudes and vile crimes to Europe.

OK thanks, I've heard the term or name many times but didn't understand what it was. Israel actually supported Hamas as a counter to other unifying alternatives like the PA so they wouldn't be pressured to seriously consider a peaceful two state solution or even a one state solution. Israel doesn't want Palestinians there period. Muslim terrorism can be beneficial in the grand scheme of things.

a 3 year genocide of people in a confined area and still 5.7 million of the Palestinians left

Isreal isnt very good at Genocide.

I'd say that's callous way of looking at things, minimizing the absolute atrocity that's been committed.

Worth to consider:

Under international law, genocide is defined as specific violent or destructive acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
The term was coined in 1944 by Polish-Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin. He combined the Greek word genos (meaning race, tribe, or nation) with the Latin suffix -cide (meaning killing). It was officially codified as an independent international crime under the United Nations 1948 Genocide Convention.

The 5 Acts of Genocide

According to Article II of the UN Genocide Convention, genocide does not only mean mass killing. It includes any of the following five physical acts if they are done with the specific intent to destroy a protected group:

1. Killing members of the group.

2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.

3. Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the group's physical destruction (such as depriving them of food, water, or medical care).

4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group (such as forced sterilization).

5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The Crucial Element: "Intent"

To legally classify an atrocity as genocide, prosecutors must prove specific intent (dolus specialis). This means the perpetrators must actively target the victims because of their membership in the group, with the explicit goal of wiping the group out. Large-scale civilian casualties during a war, while devastating, are not legally classified as genocide unless this specific intent to physically destroy the identity group can be proven.

[Coach is Back!]

What did you expose?

You are one to talk about slop LOL, after being exposed as the worst slop peddler on here.

You're the one who says sources are slop and conspiracy theories but then when I cite the sources and argue how the info can be supported you fall silent and fall back on the "bro debate technique" which is about power displays and about finding some personal weakness in the other guy which you can then attack instead of the actual argument. It has nothing to do with truth, facts or about finding some common ground amidst disagreements. I realize it's ridiculous of me to be this "serious" on fucking getbig but just showing how juvenile and weak you are for a 64 year old man.

You are not interested in whether Israel created Hamas or not, get real.

If I wasn't interested I wouldn't for a fact they didn't..but you go on with your little Jew fantasy that they did. Now go ahead and follow this up your opinion, an unnamed source and a meme.

[Van_Bilderass]

If I wasn't interested I wouldn't for a fact they didn't..but you go on with your little Jew fantasy that they did. Now go ahead and follow this up your opinion, an unnamed source and a meme.

Did you see what I said about sourcing? You're not interested in none of that, you're never serious, all you do is unfounded character attacks. Israel itself didn't create Hamas, not by itself. Israel supported it and allowed it to grow, allowed funding with hundreds of millions, it was sort of an ally - fact. So depending on your vantage point you could say Israel created Hamas. Would Netanyahu do as a source?? Forget it, don't answer.

You have zero credibility talking about sources and memes.

Let me ask you this: did Obama found ISIS? Trump says he did. Speaking of vantage points.

[BigRo]

Islamic terrorism beneficial? Come on.

[GymnJuice]

Islamic terrorism beneficial? Come on.

It sounds counterintuitive, but these groups don't all get along with each other. I think the US plays them off one another to keep the region fragmented and weak as a whole. It's not farfetched to believe the US and Israel backed certain terrorist groups to undermine the Assad regime in Syria. Just look at the CIAs documented history of working with narcoterrorists in South America in the Iran Contra affair.

[Van_Bilderass]

Islamic terrorism beneficial? Come on.

You're supposed to be a thinking man. I don't know if you "care" about this at all, doesn't seem like it, so how would you know about any of the background.

Right now in Israel, before the elections, Bibi is attacked for his Hamas support. He is attacked by the allegation that he allowed Oct 7 to occur, because it was "beneficial." You can certainly argue about Oct 7, but no one argues that he never supported Hamas.

It sounds counterintuitive, but these groups don't all get along with each other. I think the US plays them off one another to keep the region fragmented and weak as a whole. It's not farfetched to believe the US and Israel backed certain terrorist groups to undermine the Assad regime in Syria. Just look at the CIAs documented history of working with narcoterrorists in South America in the Iran Contra affair.

None of this is even controversial. Then someone comes in with a doofus knee-jerk reaction like Coach always does.

Even neo-Nazis are supported in Ukraine. Shudder.

[webstar]

Holy shit, what the hell are you reading, watching and listening to that comes up with this slop? I exposed Van alooong time ago. You two must use the same “sources”. No wait, lemme guess. Israel created Hamas…right? 🙄

Typical dumocrat response- didn’t answer anything.

On October 7, why was the IDF missing in action for six hours? That place is the most secure and has the most surveillance. But why was there no response for six hours? Charlie Kirk asked the same question and I’m asking you the same question but you don’t have an answer for that.

You just have the normal talking points.

 I’m not agreeing with what anybody did.

All I’m saying is I know your newsfeed it’s
breaking 911/libs of Tik tok / mark lavin/ looney Laura loomer on Twitter. ( i follow breaking 911/ and libs ) but they have an agenda

So it’s the same slop you parrot back.

[Coach is Back!]

Typical dumocrat response- didn’t answer anything.

On October 7, why was the IDF missing in action for six hours? That place is the most secure and has the most surveillance. But why was there no response for six hours? Charlie Kirk asked the same question and I’m asking you the same question but you don’t have an answer for that.

You just have the normal talking points.

 I’m not agreeing with what anybody did.

All I’m saying is I know your newsfeed it’s
breaking 911/libs of Tik tok / mark lavin/ looney Laura loomer on Twitter. ( i follow breaking 911/ and libs ) but they have an agenda

So it’s the same slop you parrot back.

Ok, I'll address this one at a time. Beginning with what Charlie stated. Unlike others on here who think that Netanyahu purposely let this happen and there was some kind of stand down order, Charlie caught a lot of backlash for that statement thinking he insinuated that it was done knowing that Netanyahu knew ahead time that this going to happen is completely untrue. BUT, no one is denying that there was a complete collapse with intelligence and tactical readiness. There was and this is why…

“The Hamas attack began around 6:29 a.m. with a massive rocket barrage and multi-point ground/air/sea infiltration. Roughly 5,000+ terrorists (first wave ~1,175 elite Nukhba forces) hit across ~114 points. Only about 767 IDF troops were stationed along the border that morning. The Gaza Division was effectively overrun and defeated for nearly 10 hours. High command knew only about 40% of the penetrations by 7:30 a.m. and ~60% by 10 a.m. Most of the atrocities occurred in the first six hours, while Hamas had operational control over many border communities, posts, and roads. 

•  Local forces, tanks, and some units fought from the opening minutes. The air force was activated early.

•  First outside reinforcements (mostly special forces) began arriving in some areas around 8:45–9:45 a.m., but in small numbers. Larger forces generally arrived between 9:30–10 a.m. and later. In some places (e.g., Nir Oz), IDF units arrived only after Hamas had largely withdrawn. In others, residents and local emergency squads held out for hours alone.

•  The IDF announced it had sent troops and reserves to reclaim towns roughly 6–7 hours after the start. Full control took longer in many spots. - Times Of Israel/Jpost (Jerusalem Post)

What you and Israel haters on here think is that it was conscious decision by Netanyahu to purposely allow this to happen. Fast forward now that Israel is blowing Gaza to rubble you’re hearing the fake genocide narrative. So yeah...complete the mission and finish the job.

[Van_Bilderass]

What you and Israel haters on here think is that it was conscious decision by Netanyahu to purposely allow this to happen. Fast forward now that Israel is blowing Gaza to rubble you’re hearing the fake genocide narrative. So yeah...complete the mission and finish the job.

You don't have to answer but I'd just like to say something about your style of arguing here. You often say, "you weren't there so you can't know, what you post is just memes." It applies equally to your post here. You didn't even cite a source, it's obviously from some social media post, not any academic journal, which you just accused me of always doing. So it's just slop.

You can say the genocide is fake, but no one can deny there's been massive slaughter - mostly of women and children. You can say Hamas uses human shields so it's not Israel's fault the women and children are blown up. It doesn't matter if they use human shields, fact remains Israel still blows up women and children. The  defenders of Israel talk about how it's for example fair to accept a 60:1 civilian/Hamas soldier kill ratio, those 60 just being irrelevant numbers on a paper.
The way you talk about this shows tremendous indifference to human suffering, you never even say the civilian casualties are regrettable, you just lust for more Muslim blood to be shed. This coming from a professed Christian. It's amazing to see

It's very old testament, very ------

"Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks"

- Psalm 137:9

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." -  1 Samuel 15:3

Netanyahu has said both Hamas and Iran is Amalek. It is genocidal, it definitely is on purpose, but it's their God-given right.

[BigRo]

You're supposed to be a thinking man. I don't know if you "care" about this at all, doesn't seem like it, so how would you know about any of the background.

Right now in Israel, before the elections, Bibi is attacked for his Hamas support. He is attacked by the allegation that he allowed Oct 7 to occur, because it was "beneficial." You can certainly argue about Oct 7, but no one argues that he never supported Hamas.

None of this is even controversial. Then someone comes in with a doofus knee-jerk reaction like Coach always does.

Even neo-Nazis are supported in Ukraine. Shudder.

Why the nasty attitude?

So Hamas terrorism might be beneficial to Bibi so he can obliterate Gaza etc or beneficial to the US interests in the region but as a whole generally speaking for humanity? Islamic terrorism is not beneficial. You yourself said it is beneficial so what is your personal view?

[chaos]

Ok, I'll address this one at a time. Beginning with what Charlie stated. Unlike others on here who think that Netanyahu purposely let this happen and there was some kind of stand down order, Charlie caught a lot of backlash for that statement thinking he insinuated that it was done knowing that Netanyahu knew ahead time that this going to happen is completely untrue. BUT, no one is denying that there was a complete collapse with intelligence and tactical readiness. There was and this is why…

“The Hamas attack began around 6:29 a.m. with a massive rocket barrage and multi-point ground/air/sea infiltration. Roughly 5,000+ terrorists (first wave ~1,175 elite Nukhba forces) hit across ~114 points. Only about 767 IDF troops were stationed along the border that morning. The Gaza Division was effectively overrun and defeated for nearly 10 hours. High command knew only about 40% of the penetrations by 7:30 a.m. and ~60% by 10 a.m. Most of the atrocities occurred in the first six hours, while Hamas had operational control over many border communities, posts, and roads. 

•  Local forces, tanks, and some units fought from the opening minutes. The air force was activated early.

•  First outside reinforcements (mostly special forces) began arriving in some areas around 8:45–9:45 a.m., but in small numbers. Larger forces generally arrived between 9:30–10 a.m. and later. In some places (e.g., Nir Oz), IDF units arrived only after Hamas had largely withdrawn. In others, residents and local emergency squads held out for hours alone.

•  The IDF announced it had sent troops and reserves to reclaim towns roughly 6–7 hours after the start. Full control took longer in many spots. - Times Of Israel/Jpost (Jerusalem Post)

What you and Israel haters on here think is that it was conscious decision by Netanyahu to purposely allow this to happen. Fast forward now that Israel is blowing Gaza to rubble you’re hearing the fake genocide narrative. So yeah...complete the mission and finish the job.

Here's my problem with that.....isreal is supposed to have elite terrorist counter intelligence right? Yet they didn't realize that 5000+ terrorists were going to hit over 100 targets? And we (the US) based our invasion of eeron on what isreal told us about their nuclear advancements? How can they tell us what eeron was up to but didn't have a clue about 5000 terrorists invading and rocket bombing them?

[Van_Bilderass]

Why the nasty attitude?

So Hamas terrorism might be beneficial to Bibi so he can obliterate Gaza etc or beneficial to the US interests in the region but as a whole generally speaking for humanity? Islamic terrorism is not beneficial. You yourself said it is beneficial so what is your personal view?

I'm sorry BigRo, I didn't mean to be nasty, hard to convey tone over the net

I'm not saying it's beneficial, wasn't my point. Just saying some feel sacrifices of your own people are sometimes justified. One example is the Hannibal directive that was used on Oct 7. It meant that when Hamas fled in vehicles with Israeli hostages Apache helicopters shot Hellfire missiles at them. They felt killing the hostage with the terrorist was better than trying to rescue them later. I'm sure you saw the images of burned out cars. Then you have the sponsoring of Islamic terrorists by for example the U.S. and Israel. This is what happened in Syria and Assad.

"Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS)—formerly known as Jabhat al-Nusra and historically tied to al-Qaeda—has been formally dissolved and removed from major international terrorist lists following the fall of the Bashar al-Assad regime."

Here's a famous quote by Ben-Gurion. Which is why you might suspect something similar could have occurred with Oct 7.

[Van_Bilderass]

Here's my problem with that.....isreal is supposed to have elite terrorist counter intelligence right? Yet they didn't realize that 5000+ terrorists were going to hit over 100 targets? And we (the US) based our invasion of eeron on what isreal told us about their nuclear advancements? How can they tell us what eeron was up to but didn't have a clue about 5000 terrorists invading and rocket bombing them?

It doesn't make sense.

Eisenkot is Bibi's challenger in the upcoming elections. He says Bibi is too soft on the Palestinians, not extreme enough. These allegations come from within Israel, from very Jewish people so can it be antisemitism?

[Coach is Back!]

You don't have to answer but I'd just like to say something about your style of arguing here. You often say, "you weren't there so you can't know, what you post is just memes." It applies equally to your post here. You didn't even cite a source, it's obviously from some social media post, not any academic journal, which you just accused me of always doing. So it's just slop.

You can say the genocide is fake, but no one can deny there's been massive slaughter - mostly of women and children. You can say Hamas uses human shields so it's not Israel's fault the women and children are blown up. It doesn't matter if they use human shields, fact remains Israel still blows up women and children. The  defenders of Israel talk about how it's for example fair to accept a 60:1 civilian/Hamas soldier kill ratio, those 60 just being irrelevant numbers on a paper.
The way you talk about this shows tremendous indifference to human suffering, you never even say the civilian casualties are regrettable, you just lust for more Muslim blood to be shed. This coming from a professed Christian. It's amazing to see

It's very old testament, very ------

"Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks"

- Psalm 137:9

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." -  1 Samuel 15:3

Netanyahu has said both Hamas and Iran is Amalek. It is genocidal, it definitely is on purpose, but it's their God-given right.

You must have not read where I sourced “Times of Israel and JPost (Jerusalem Post)

[Van_Bilderass]

You must have not read where I sourced “Times of Israel and JPost (Jerusalem Post)

Missed that, however I assume that is a social media post just based on reporting from those news outlets as sentences from that post don't get hits on google. I have posted "memes" from those outlets plenty of times and you've called it conspiracy theories. I will say that you can find useful reporting from news outlets from across the political spectrum; those two are described as centrist.

As it happens, that last meme I posted is from the Times of Israel in reader mode!

As for the other outlet cited, Jerusalem Post here. You call it my Jew fantasy. You call me referencing those outlets Jew hate. Them saying it is just fine, they can do no wrong, me quoting them is antisemitism. Maybe you could help Israel Coach, the U.S. could take in the Palestinians?