Author Topic: Noahs Ark Found  (Read 63229 times)

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #600 on: May 12, 2010, 08:50:49 AM »
McWay your argument about rape being covered by adultery is wrong. Rape is FORCED. Adultery is defined as VOLUNTARY. Being betrothed is NOT the same as being married. If it were true and a betrothed female was accidentally killed, would the male receive her dowry? Nope.


For all ancient practical and legal purposes, they were the same. If my memory serves me correctly, the betrothment period lasted about a year. All that's left is the official wedding and subsequent consummation of the marriage. Once the betrothment was made official, that was it; the marriage had to take place (barring some major improprieity, i.e. sex with an outside party).

Therefore, raping a betrothed woman was effectively raping (forcefully having sex with) another man's wife; hence, it's adultery and as spelled out further in Levitical law, such was punishable by DEATH for the assailant!

On the other hand, if a betrothed woman VOLUNTARILY had sex with another guy, she is effectively committing adultery. Hence, she and the other guy would have been put down.


The commandments didn't abolish slavery. It gave conditions for having slaves. So in essence god didn't think that slaves (who of course were people) needed to be unslaved as long as they were treated well. Face it slavery is a disgrace for any man, woman or child.



Views of different eras follow the accepted behavior of the time. Doesn't change the fact that "god" thought it was alright for other men to enslave other men and use then for a lifetime of unpaid servitude. Again, IMO the "morals" and "commandments" were drawn up to follow what most kings, emperors and dictators desired at the time.....

Again, it appears you are interchanging the servitude in Scripture with chattel slavery, which was clearly not allowed.

As stated earlier, the Commandments and the laws based on them cover the barring of chattel slavery.

How are chattel slaves most often procured? Kidnapping. That was barred, and punishable by DEATH. Any injury or dismemberment of a servant allowed that servant to leave (with compensation). If a master killed his servant, that master was put to death himself.

Once the time of servitude was up, the servant was free to leave, with quite the nice “severance package”, if you will.

Again, Israel was constantly reminded that they were NOT to treat foreigners the way they were treated in Egypt.

Exd 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Exd 23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
 
Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Deu 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.


MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #601 on: May 12, 2010, 09:11:22 AM »
I actually take the time to dissect through them and read them, though by now I think we've all come to the clear conclusion that mcway is a religious nut.. he is constantly arguing proven scientific facts with the bible and 'faith' , you know one of those people that will not accept that the sky is blue no matter how many what but till always make up his own 'alternate' reality.

Wrong again!!

I use the Bible in an argument, when the subject matter involves a Biblical account, as the subject of this thread does. As for "proven scientific facts", and my allegedly not accepting "the sky is blue", let's see how many "scientific facts" have turned out to be anything but that, upon further inspection?

Spontaneous generation was among the "proven scientific facts", until Louis Pasteur put that one to rest.


Pluto, being a planet, was among the "proven scientific facts" as well, until a few years ago. Do you accept that it's still a planet? If you do, are you making up your own "alternate reality"?



tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #602 on: May 12, 2010, 09:36:15 AM »
You can't really use "Pluto" as an example, as the scientific community redefined the definition of what a "planet" is, which just happened to exclude Pluto based upon the new definition.

As a matter of fact, many scientists still claim it should in fact be a planet, but the new definition eliminates it as such because it hasn't "cleared" the area around it's orbit.

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #603 on: May 12, 2010, 09:46:24 AM »
You can't really use "Pluto" as an example, as the scientific community redefined the definition of what a "planet" is, which just happened to exclude Pluto based upon the new definition.

As a matter of fact, many scientists still claim it should in fact be a planet, but the new definition eliminates it as such because it hasn't "cleared" the area around it's orbit.

That was part of the point, regarding the whole definition changing stuff. Prior to 2006, if the average Joe would have said that Pluto ain't a planet, you'd be wondering if he were consuming copious amounts of cannibis, during his science classes in school.


LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31172
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #604 on: May 12, 2010, 10:20:57 AM »
Irrelevant attempt to compare.

At one time someone saying the Earth is flat would have been considered truthful and all knowing.  But that view evolved and was dropped over time in light of scientific evidence and discovery - PROOF that the initial concept of a flat earth was nothing more than a product of unschooled thought and lack of discovery.   If someone said the same thing today, they would be labeled a loony as it is just common sense that dictates otherwise.

Same way with religion.  At one time, weird thoughts of God sending a flood or parting the sea or any of the other nonsense was commonly accepted because men back in those days lacked the intellectual capacity that we accept as "normal" today.  As time goes by and independent thought and logic precede superstitions and children's stories, religion fades away by the day and dwindles in followers.

In the next thousand years, mankind will probably look upon "God" and the "Bible" the same way we look upon Zeus and Mt Olympus today.  As simple stories that the less educated took for granted because they didn't know any better at the time.

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #605 on: May 12, 2010, 10:31:09 AM »
Irrelevant attempt to compare.

At one time someone saying the Earth is flat would have been considered truthful and all knowing.  But that view evolved and was dropped over time in light of scientific evidence and discovery - PROOF that the initial concept of a flat earth was nothing more than a product of unschooled thought and lack of discovery.   If someone said the same thing today, they would be labeled a loony as it is just common sense that dictates otherwise.

Unschooled thought? Try again, the learned men of the time SWORE UP AND DOWN that the world was flat and cited such as among "proven scientific facts" to the masses. And Catholic clergy walked right in lockstep with such thinking (even though Scripture makes no claim of a flat earth, whatsoever).



Same way with religion.  At one time, weird thoughts of God sending a flood or parting the sea or any of the other nonsense was commonly accepted because men back in those days lacked the intellectual capacity that we accept as "normal" today.  As time goes by and independent thought and logic precede superstitions and children's stories, religion fades away by the day and dwindles in followers.

Wrong on that one, especially regarding that parting the sea (Exodus) thing. Bible skeptics have all but done a 180 on that one, going from denying the Exodus occured, to producing specials and studies left and right, attempting to explain the plagues that hit Egypt, resulting in the Israelites' release.

There was nothing "normal" about a global Flood; nor was there anything "normal" about the plagues that hit Egypt in the manner which they did, leading to the Exodus.

And, the religion that documents the Flood and the Exodus has been flourishing and intact, FOR MILLENIA (despite numerous rises and falls of kingdoms and empires, and attempted suppresion of that religion and its people for almost as long).


In the next thousand years, mankind will probably look upon "God" and the "Bible" the same way we look upon Zeus and Mt Olympus today.  As simple stories that the less educated took for granted because they didn't know any better at the time.

That's funny!! Mankind hasn't done it over the last 3,500 years or so.

Time was supposed to do away with the Bible....didn't happen. Time was supposed to do away with Christianity....didn't happen.

Per the bubbas from the "Enlightenment" period, "logic and reason" was supposed to spell the end of religion (Christianity, in particular)......their era is gone; Christianity remains.

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #606 on: May 12, 2010, 10:54:26 AM »
I just read a friends post on FB about how the "grace of god" saved her from a car accident. Of course she doesn't credit herself with having the reflexes to have avoided it.

It's one of the dumbest statements IMO. A child is born with a disease, goes through surgery and by the "grace of god" survives it to live on. Uh, if god didn't bestow the damn disease to the child in the first place, he/she wouldn't have needed the surgery. ::)

That's why when people say "god given talent" for those who are above average, they should also say to children born with disease, "god given torture".

Oh, really? Take a child with AIDS. Did God give this child AIDS or did he get it, courtesy of at least one of his parents either shooting up dope or screwing around?


LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31172
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #607 on: May 12, 2010, 11:22:08 AM »
Oh, really? Take a child with AIDS. Did God give this child AIDS or did he get it, courtesy of at least one of his parents either shooting up dope or screwing around?



What your excuse for MS?  SID?  Cancer?  Retardation?  Is Trig the result of his mother being retarded as well?

Captain Equipoise

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12927
  • back from the dead...
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #608 on: May 12, 2010, 11:25:19 AM »
What your excuse for MS?  SID?  Cancer?  Retardation?  Is Trig the result of his mother being retarded as well?

Or earthquakes, volcano eruptions, floods, etc. I guess god was mad at the people of haiti..

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #609 on: May 12, 2010, 11:32:10 AM »
What your excuse for MS?  SID?  Cancer?  Retardation?  Is Trig the result of his mother being retarded as well?

Some diseases are the direct result of bad behavior and/or poor habits. Except for MS, all of those aforementioned diseases can be caused by people's behaviors.

And, at the end of the day, disease is all too much a result of living on a sinful planet.

Of course, in your haste to jump in and run off at the mouth, you (yet again) missed the point. Oldschool claimed that children with disease should be described as having "god given torture". That's a huge stretch, especially given an example of such disease that children get, as a DIRECT RESULT of their parents' misgivings.

Kids can get AIDS, because of their parents' screwing around or shooting up dope. They can become retarded if Mom smokes crack or drinks while pregnant. Cancer? People get cancer, because of smoking and other bad habits.

That was the gist of my statement, earlier. And, as usual, it zipped right over your skull.

LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31172
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #610 on: May 12, 2010, 11:39:30 AM »
Quote
Unschooled thought? Try again, the learned men of the time SWORE UP AND DOWN that the world was flat and cited such as among "proven scientific facts" to the masses. And Catholic clergy walked right in lockstep with such thinking (even though Scripture makes no claim of a flat earth, whatsoever).

Once again you exhibit the fact you either lack basic reading ability or you simply can not comprehend what you did read.  I clearly stated :

At one time someone saying the Earth is flat would have been considered truthful and all knowing.

Why you felt the need to agree with the exact same statement in different words, I have no idea.  I don't think you have any idea either.

Today if someone claimed the Earth was flat, would they still be looked upon as wise and all knowing?  Of course not.  



Quote
Wrong on that one, especially regarding that parting the sea (Exodus) thing. Bible skeptics have all but done a 180 on that one, going from denying the Exodus occured, to producing specials and studies left and right, attempting to explain the plagues that hit Egypt, resulting in the Israelites' release.

No force on Earth of yesterday, today or tomorrow is powerful enough to divide an ocean into a walking path.  Again, you spout off at the gums with something that is completely irrelevant to the post you are trying to address.  Not a single thing I posted was about the Exodus, plagues, or Isrealites release.  Did you see that in my post?  No you didn't.  But yet you are attempting to discuss this because of WHAT again?  Other than no point.

Quote
There was nothing "normal" about a global Flood; nor was there anything "normal" about the plagues that hit Egypt in the manner which they did, leading to the Exodus.

Again, my question pages back that you flailed around with your smoke and mirrors and yet couldn't answer is not directed at whether or not a flood or a plague existed.  But in regards to providing proof that God was behind this himself.  Nothing supports that some magical being on a cloud sent this himself.  Hell, when was the last time anyone contributed the Black Plague of Europe to God?  Yet you take an act of natural disaster or sickness and try to "prove" to others that some invisible being did it without any proof behind your claim whatsoever.

Quote
And, the religion that documents the Flood and the Exodus has been flourishing and intact, FOR MILLENIA (despite numerous rises and falls of kingdoms and empires, and attempted suppresion of that religion and its people for almost as long).

Indeed.  It takes a while for stupid children and their offspring to die out.  Never fret, it's happening though.

Quote
That's funny!! Mankind hasn't done it over the last 3,500 years or so.

I didn't know that there was suppose to be a deadline.  Perhaps you can provide a link to that?  How long did it take for Roman and Greek mythology or Egyptian pagans to fade away?  Never fear, your God will be nothing more than a pagan himself in another few thousand years.

Quote
Time was supposed to do away with the Bible....didn't happen. Time was supposed to do away with Christianity....didn't happen.

Oh but it is.  Which is why over time the ranks of the Christians have declined.  Argue this if you are stupid enough, but evidence points out that there are less, not more.

Quote
Per the bubbas from the "Enlightenment" period, "logic and reason" was supposed to spell the end of religion (Christianity, in particular)......their era is gone; Christianity remains.

Per the religious douches from past periods... Christianity and God was suppose to spell the end of the witches, disease, science and natural disasters.  But yet, science has saved more of mankind than "God" ever has.  

LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31172
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #611 on: May 12, 2010, 11:45:18 AM »
Some diseases are the direct result of bad behavior and/or poor habits. Except for MS, all of those aforementioned diseases can be caused by people's behaviors.


Really?  What behavior can a child do to earn SID?  What behavior contributes to a genetic defect/mutation that leads to cancer?  What of kids born blind?  Cleft lip?  Missing fingers and toes?  Siamese twins?  What poor habits did they have while in the womb that led to this?  What behavior did Palin engage in that resulted in Trig?

And, at the end of the day, disease is all too much a result of living on a sinful planet.

So God punishes his good Christians for the behavior of others?  Otherwise little Christards would all be disease free by your claim here.  For someone who lives right, follows a good moral compass, abides by the Bible and worships God... why should they be marked by disease if it is other people sinning?  Is this God's sense of humor at work?

Man of Steel

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19388
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #612 on: May 12, 2010, 11:48:17 AM »
Mcway, I appreciate your persistence and your knowledge base, but at some point you must abandon the debate unless you truly believe headway is being made.  If that is the case then press on, but from what I've read thus far no matter how well you debate at the end of the day if they can't outthink and outwit you they'll simply turn to 5th grade logic and insults and return immediately to "God is a children's fairytale anyway."  

1 Cor 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

A friend just recently reminded me of this verse.

At this stage of the game all you can do is pray for others.

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #613 on: May 12, 2010, 12:20:43 PM »
Once again you exhibit the fact you either lack basic reading ability or you simply can not comprehend what you did read.  I clearly stated :

At one time someone saying the Earth is flat would have been considered truthful and all knowing.

Why you felt the need to agree with the exact same statement in different words, I have no idea.  I don't think you have any idea either.

Today if someone claimed the Earth was flat, would they still be looked upon as wise and all knowing?  Of course not.  

I read what you wrote. You claimed that the concept of a flat earth was the product of unschooled thought, which was incorrect. And, it certainly wasn't for lack of knowledge.


No force on Earth of yesterday, today or tomorrow is powerful enough to divide an ocean into a walking path.  Again, you spout off at the gums with something that is completely irrelevant to the post you are trying to address.  Not a single thing I posted was about the Exodus, plagues, or Isrealites release.  Did you see that in my post?  No you didn't.  But yet you are attempting to discuss this because of WHAT again?  Other than no point.

It appears that you don't read your own post. You made the reference to parting of a sea. Hmmmm.....exactly what historical event is linked to a parting of a sea? What happening, documented for centuries on end, is ceremoniously LINKED to parting of a sea?

If this is your way of playing dumb, consider yourself MVP!!


Again, my question pages back that you flailed around with your smoke and mirrors and yet couldn't answer is not directed at whether or not a flood or a plague existed.  But in regards to providing proof that God was behind this himself.  Nothing supports that some magical being on a cloud sent this himself.  Hell, when was the last time anyone contributed the Black Plague of Europe to God?  Yet you take an act of natural disaster or sickness and try to "prove" to others that some invisible being did it without any proof behind your claim whatsoever.

I answered your question, gave the specifics and references supporting such, which prompted you to engage in your repeated cluckings and bleatings.


Indeed.  It takes a while for stupid children and their offspring to die out.  Never fret, it's happening though.

The allegedly stupid people were supposed to "die out" along time ago. Yet, they're still around. Those calling themselves smarter have gone bye-bye.

So, you'll have to dredge up another silly excuse as to why, despite your hopes to the contrary, the Judeo-Christian faith remains intact and vibrant.


I didn't know that there was suppose to be a deadline.  Perhaps you can provide a link to that?  How long did it take for Roman and Greek mythology or Egyptian pagans to fade away?  Never fear, your God will be nothing more than a pagan himself in another few thousand years.

4000 years plus, and the frustration for skeptics continues, to this day. All it took was those nations being either destroyed or overtaken by a foreign power. Israel's had that done to them more times than I care to count. Yet, that pesky God, religion of theirs, and the Bible (OT and, later, NT) is still around.

Even amidst the presence of pagans like those aforementioed Egyptians, and Greeks, and Roman, (not to mention the Babylonians, Medes, Persians, Philistines, and numerous other oppressors).

They've faded away. God, His people, and His word have not (and it ain't been for lack of trying).


Oh but it is.  Which is why over time the ranks of the Christians have declined.  Argue this if you are stupid enough, but evidence points out that there are less, not more.

You mean evidence like this?


Christianity is the fastest growing religion both in the number of new adherents due to natural growth (births minus deaths) as well as in number of new converts (converts in minus converts out).

• The total growth of Christianity (25,210,195) adds the equivalent of more than the population of Australia (21,555,500) or the U.S. State of Texas (23,904,380) of new Christians to Christianity. Every year.

• The number of new converts to Christianity is more than twice the combined number of new converts to all the other tabulated religions, even if we take out those with negative numbers (2,501,396 vers. 1,090,541)


• The new converts to Christianity (2,501,396) adds the equivalent of more than the population of Latvia (2,268,000) or almost the U.S. State of Nevada (2,565,382) of new Christians to Christianity. Every year.



http://fastestgrowingreligion.com/numbers.html#table_j

I addressed this earlier, The numbers of Christians HAVE INCREASED, overall, based on sheer numbers (And that's just in the United States). Christianity is THE FASTEST-GROWING religion on the planet and has more converts worldwide than all other organized religions COMBINED.

It's not going anywhere, despite your wishful musings to the contrary.


Per the religious douches from past periods... Christianity and God was suppose to spell the end of the witches, disease, science and natural disasters.  But yet, science has saved more of mankind than "God" ever has.  


Says who? No one made the claim that God or Christianity would spell the end of those things on Earth. In fact, Scripture cites the very OPPOSITE happening, throughout Earth's existence.

Tito24

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20638
  • I'm a large man but.. one with a plan
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #614 on: May 12, 2010, 12:22:00 PM »
Is it good because it's loved by god? Or is it god cause god loves it?

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #615 on: May 12, 2010, 12:27:04 PM »
Mcway, I appreciate your persistence and your knowledge base, but at some point you must abandon the debate unless you truly believe headway is being made.  If that is the case then press on, but from what I've read thus far no matter how well you debate at the end of the day if they can't outthink and outwit you they'll simply turn to 5th grade logic and insults and return immediately to "God is a children's fairytale anyway."  

1 Cor 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

A friend just recently reminded me of this verse.

At this stage of the game all you can do is pray for others.

The issue here isn't about making headway. If an assertion is made, regarding an aspect of Scripture or the Christian faith, which is categorically false, the issue becomes simply setting the record straight.

As you've seen, a number of wild claims have been made, which are way off the mark. A prime example can be found in my previous post, regarding the humorous and wishful skeptic thinking that the Word of God and the Christian faith is going to die out, courtesy of the alleged "logic and reason" of anti-religious skeptics and their allies in academia.

That simply isn't the case. The Word has endured, throughout the ages, and will remain.

LurkerNoMore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31172
  • Dumb people think Trump is smart.
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #616 on: May 12, 2010, 12:56:42 PM »
Quote
I read what you wrote. You claimed that the concept of a flat earth was the product of unschooled thought, which was incorrect. And, it certainly wasn't for lack of knowledge.

Are you saying believing the earth is flat is an exhibit of sound mind and intellect?  Or do you simply do not comprehend a simple statement and instead attempt to argue your way into agreeing with it?

Quote
It appears that you don't read your own post. You made the reference to parting of a sea. Hmmmm.....exactly what historical event is linked to a parting of a sea? What happening, documented for centuries on end, is ceremoniously LINKED to parting of a sea?

Again, I made no reference to any historical event.  You try to twist and spin the statement to something you want it to be in order to try to deflect the nature of the discussion elsewhere.  Won't work.  I never said anything about events or things linked to the parting of the sea.  I plainly stating parting a sea - any sea for any event - is impossible and has never and will never happen.  Now continue with your whinefest and irrelevant topics.

Quote
If this is your way of playing dumb, consider yourself MVP!!

I think that little tiara firmly rests upon your head after your dazzling display of reading ability/comprehension.

Quote
I answered your question, gave the specifics and references supporting such, which prompted you to engage in your repeated cluckings and bleatings.

No, you did not.  You can not even go back on this thread and provide a link to where you did.  You gave "evidence" of global floodings.  You gave "evidence" of the ark and it's dimension and how Moses built it.

However, my question was not about a flood.  Nor was it about Moses and his ark.   My question was asking for proof that some magical caused this flood and not Mother Nature.  You instead blubber and flap those gums about everything EXCEPT what would answer the question.
Your irrelevant non answers answered nothing at all.  No surprise.


Quote
The allegedly stupid people were supposed to "die out" along time ago. Yet, they're still around. Those calling themselves smarter have gone bye-bye.

Really, where?  Unlike Moses, I don't see those living for 900 years or whatever.  Or time, mankind has gotten smarter and put away silly musings and fables.

Quote
So, you'll have to dredge up another silly excuse as to why, despite your hopes to the contrary, the Judeo-Christian faith remains intact and vibrant.

As I said... stupid people are still around.

Quote
4000 years plus, and the frustration for skeptics continues, to this day. All it took was those nations being either destroyed or overtaken by a foreign power. Israel's had that done to them more times than I care to count. Yet, that pesky God, religion of theirs, and the Bible (OT and, later, NT) is still around.

Was that God's love that allowed their country to be destroyed?  Or maybe the God of the other side was stronger?

Quote
Even amidst the presence of pagans like those aforementioed Egyptians, and Greeks, and Roman, (not to mention the Babylonians, Medes, Persians, Philistines, and numerous other oppressors).

And yet, how much of the basis of Christianity was taken from those pagan cultures?  How long did people follow those religions?

Quote
They've faded away. God, His people, and His word have not (and it ain't been for lack of trying).

When was the last time you saw God?  And His Word not fading... oh yeah... like the rape/adultery punishment above.  Boy, that sure remained a certain death nowdays for offenders.

Quote
You mean evidence like this?

I mean evidence like this :

It was a small detail, a point of comparison buried in the fifth paragraph on the 17th page of a 24-page summary of the 2009 American Religious Identification Survey. But as R. Albert Mohler Jr.—president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, one of the largest on earth—read over the document after its release in March, he was struck by a single sentence. For a believer like Mohler—a starched, unflinchingly conservative Christian, steeped in the theology of his particular province of the faith, devoted to producing ministers who will preach the inerrancy of the Bible and the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only means to eternal life—the central news of the survey was troubling enough: the number of Americans who claim no religious affiliation has nearly doubled since 1990, rising from 8 to 15 percent.

According to the American Religious Identification Survey that got Mohler's attention, the percentage of self-identified Christians has fallen 10 percentage points since 1990, from 86 to 76 percent. The Jewish population is 1.2 percent; the Muslim, 0.6 percent.

The American Religious Identification Survey conducted by Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut has revealed that the number of Christian believers is on the decline in the United States.
According to the report, “The percentage of Christians in America, which declined in the 1990s from 86.2 percent to 76.7 percent, has now edged down to 76 percent.”

Other key findings as reported by American Religious Identification Survey:

• Baptists, who constitute the largest non-Catholic Christian tradition, have increased their numbers by two million since 2001, but continue to decline as a proportion of the population.

• The number of adherents of Eastern Religions, which more than doubled in the 1990s, has declined slightly, from just over two million to just under. Asian Americans are substantially more likely to indicate no religious identity than other racial or ethnic groups.

• Those who identify religiously as Jews continue to decline numerically, from 3.1 million in 1990 to 2.8 million in 2001 to 2.7 million in 2008–1.2 percent of the population. Defined to include those who identify as Jews by ethnicity alone, the American Jewish population has remained stable over the past two decades.

• Adherents of New Religious movements, including Wiccans and self-described pagans, have grown faster this decade than in the 1990s.

"unChristian" is the title of a new book by David Kinnaman, president of The Barna Group. I think it is safe to say that this book shows in a concrete way the negative impact of the Christian Right.

More from the publishers:

The study shows that 16- to 29-year-olds exhibit a greater degree of criticism toward Christianity than did previous generations when they were at the same stage of life. In fact, in just a decade, many of the Barna measures of the Christian image have shifted substantially downward, fueled in part by a growing sense of disengagement and disillusionment among young people. For instance, a decade ago the vast majority of Americans outside the Christian faith, including young people, felt favorably toward Christianity's role in society. Currently, however, just 16% of non-Christians in their late teens and twenties said they have a "good impression" of Christianity.

Christianity = 39% and DROPPING
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm



Quote
I addressed this earlier, The numbers of Christians HAVE INCREASED, overall, based on sheer numbers (And that's just in the United States). Christianity is THE FASTEST-GROWING religion on the planet and has more converts worldwide than all other organized religions COMBINED.

Irrelevant nonsense.  The statement was not about population increases driving up the membership in the ranks, but the entire percentage of the religion as a whole.  It is DECLINING.  Just like your credibility is when confronted with facts.

Quote
It's not going anywhere, despite your wishful musings to the contrary.

As stated... there will always be stupid people.  But just less and less of them in the future.

Quote
Says who? No one made the claim that God or Christianity would spell the end of those things on Earth. In fact, Scripture cites the very OPPOSITE happening, throughout Earth's existence.

Then that certainly throws a little contradiction into your previous argument about it being a product of a sinful world.   ::)

Once again, science has saved more people than God.

YngiweRhoads

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4262
  • Shreddin'
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #617 on: May 12, 2010, 01:44:19 PM »

At this stage of the game all you can do is pray for others.

If you'd read this entire thread, you'd have come across the links to the study that's been done showing prayer is not only useless, but detrimental.



6

YngiweRhoads

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4262
  • Shreddin'
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #618 on: May 12, 2010, 01:46:45 PM »

Once again, science has saved more people than God.


Rather unfair comparison as the odds of any god(s) existing are incredibly small, and the odds of the anthropomorphic, hands-on god of the christian bible existing are even smaller.  :)
6

Oldschool Flip

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
  • Eat Balut! High in Protein!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #619 on: May 12, 2010, 04:04:30 PM »

For all ancient practical and legal purposes, they were the same. If my memory serves me correctly, the betrothment period lasted about a year. All that's left is the official wedding and subsequent consummation of the marriage. Once the betrothment was made official, that was it; the marriage had to take place (barring some major improprieity, i.e. sex with an outside party).
So if the male had sex with another female before the marriage, the wedding was improper. Now the female is no longer betrothed. She gets raped by an unbetrothed male. It's not aldultery.
BTW what happened to the "men of god" who had many wives and obviously committed adultery?

Quote
Therefore, raping a betrothed woman was effectively raping (forcefully having sex with) another man's wife; hence, it's adultery and as spelled out further in Levitical law, such was punishable by DEATH for the assailant!
McWay, that's a clever line of thinking, I'm not buying it, but why wasn't rape just spelled out in the commandments then? How hard is it to say, "thou shalt not take a woman's virginity by force."?

Quote
On the other hand, if a betrothed woman VOLUNTARILY had sex with another guy, she is effectively committing adultery. Hence, she and the other guy would have been put down.
Marriage is a contract. Without the marriage you have no contract. No contract means no marriage. You can't be an adulterer unless you're married. And yes, marriage was a contract between husband and father of the bride back then.

Quote
Again, it appears you are interchanging the servitude in Scripture with chattel slavery, which was clearly not allowed.

As stated earlier, the Commandments and the laws based on them cover the barring of chattel slavery.

How are chattel slaves most often procured? Kidnapping. That was barred, and punishable by DEATH. Any injury or dismemberment of a servant allowed that servant to leave (with compensation). If a master killed his servant, that master was put to death himself.

Not buying it. They may be punished but not put to death. Where is the passage that says that? Masters would sell their daughter's as slaves. No death for that. If a slave was given a wife by his master and she bore children, the man slave may leave if servitude was complete, but the wife and children HAD to stay.

Oldschool Flip

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
  • Eat Balut! High in Protein!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #620 on: May 12, 2010, 04:10:59 PM »
Oh, really? Take a child with AIDS. Did God give this child AIDS or did he get it, courtesy of at least one of his parents either shooting up dope or screwing around?
AIDS is "acquired immune dificiency syndrome". Key word is "acquired". Cancer, gene defects etc. aren't acquired. If you're going to debate it, then debate the question I asked.

Oldschool Flip

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
  • Eat Balut! High in Protein!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #621 on: May 12, 2010, 04:17:52 PM »
That simply isn't the case. The Word has endured, throughout the ages, and will remain.
Before last century (100 years) scientific technology was minimal at best. Within the last 100 years we have more scientific discoveries, technologies, and scientific explanations of "miracles" and previous unexplained events. I doubt it will last in the next 500 years based on the advancement of knowledge that will eventually have people really looking hard at unseen entities being real.

tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #622 on: May 12, 2010, 04:36:42 PM »
Actually, most scientists believe that the interpretation of the area that parted, was in fact mistranslated and should have been the "reed sea", not the red sea.

An area that is approximately 20 feet deep and was more swamp like.

There is a belief that an under water volcano could have caused a mega tsunami effect which would have receeded waters of that depth.

Not the Ocean depths that people seem to believe, but in general, it is quite possible that the effect did occur... There is evidence to that as well.

The idea that some aspects of the bible may be historically accurate to some extent in no way shape or form means the entire thing is accurate.

That's not how facts work.

YngiweRhoads

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4262
  • Shreddin'
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #623 on: May 12, 2010, 05:50:28 PM »
Haha...score another one for religion.

The reason the Hadron Collider is located in Switzerland rather than in Texas is due to the fact that congress discovered that it wouldn't prove the existence of god and would merely attempt to prove the existence of another sub-atomic particle (the Higgs Boson particle), at a cost of 11 Billion dollars.  The particle accelerator which was to be built in Texas was originally intended to be 3 times larger than the current Hadron Collider. This also is the cause of the current exodus of top physicists to Switzerland.



Michio explains this around 58 min into the video. Awesome video btw.  ;D



6

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19256
  • Getbig!
Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #624 on: May 12, 2010, 06:09:12 PM »
So if the male had sex with another female before the marriage, the wedding was improper. Now the female is no longer betrothed. She gets raped by an unbetrothed male. It's not aldultery.
BTW what happened to the "men of god" who had many wives and obviously committed adultery?

If the male had sex with another female, he's committing adultery, which subject him and the woman to the death penalty. The one case I recall where an adulterer and adulteress were spared such involves David and Bathsheba. However, they certain did not go unpunished for their trangressions, especially David.


McWay, that's a clever line of thinking, I'm not buying it, but why wasn't rape just spelled out in the commandments then? How hard is it to say, "thou shalt not take a woman's virginity by force."?

The Levitical laws are just that. And they are based on the Ten Commandments.


Marriage is a contract. Without the marriage you have no contract. No contract means no marriage. You can't be an adulterer unless you're married. And yes, marriage was a contract between husband and father of the bride back then.

That's not how Hebrew marriages worked. The betrothment was the contract and had the legal and binding effect of the marriage.



Not buying it. They may be punished but not put to death. Where is the passage that says that? Masters would sell their daughter's as slaves. No death for that. If a slave was given a wife by his master and she bore children, the man slave may leave if servitude was complete, but the wife and children HAD to stay.

The passage is Exodus 21:20. The Hebrew word that translates into "punished" is naqam, which translates "to suffer vengeance" or "vengeance be taken (for blood)". Therefore, if the master kills his servant, that master must have vengeance taken upon him (i.e. HE DIES!!!).

A man “selling” his daughter is, in actuality, finding her a husband. Either the master marries her or one of his sons is to marry her. If neither happens, she goes back to her family. She is NOT a slave in perpetuity.

As for the departing servant and his wife, the reason the wife (and children) had to stay was simple: The master “gave” the servant his wife (remember that a female servant is to be treated as a daughter, if the master himself does not marry her, per Ex. 21:9).

In other words, no dowry took place, which is what has to happen in order for a man to have a wife. Ex. 21:9. As long as the master is in charge of the woman’s care, she stays with him. If the man wants the wife and kids to leave with him, he coughs up the dowry.