Author Topic: Buying Oil under market value.  (Read 9836 times)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2007, 01:37:12 PM »
I'm saying a few things.  First, "You need to read the specific forum selection language before concluding Iraq would not be the forum for dispute resolution."  Do you have the specific language? 

Second, foreign investment is not uncommon.  But I conceded in a prior post that assuming everything in the article is accurate, that the Iraqi people didn't negotiate these PSAs.

One other note:  Iraq didn't have a government after we overthrew Saddam, so I'm not surprised that someone made a decision.  Keep in mind that we overthrew a government that was pilfering the Iraqi resources.      

Foreign investment, of course, is not uncommon, but under these terms foreign investment should be called windfall investment.

we might not be pilfering iraqi resources the same way or in the same scope as Saddam was....but geez.......What do we call this?

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2007, 01:42:24 PM »
I'm saying a few things.  First, "You need to read the specific forum selection language before concluding Iraq would not be the forum for dispute resolution."  Do you have the specific language? 

Second, foreign investment is not uncommon.  But I conceded in a prior post that assuming everything in the article is accurate, that the Iraqi people didn't negotiate these PSAs.

One other note:  Iraq didn't have a government after we overthrew Saddam, so I'm not surprised that someone made a decision.  Keep in mind that we overthrew a government that was pilfering the Iraqi resources.       
And I will concede that the language of PSAs re choice of forum is not unique to the Iraqi PSA but that it is common to all PSAs.  That's what I get for trying to multi-task here at work. 

Foreign investment happens as the result of bargaining between 2 parties...one of which is foreign.  The selling off of Iraqi infrastructure (not just the oil assets) is indicative of a plunder.  Only in this case, the plunder is not absolute rather it is given the veneer of propriety b/c Iraq is given a taste of the gate, so to speak, even though the infrastructure was Iraqi property.

This privatization of foreign infrastructure strikes me as anti-capitalist and anti-free market b/c bargaining was absent and the side with the most bargaining leverage lost out.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2007, 01:46:17 PM »
Are you kidding me?  Even if the iraqi government came up with the idea who in there right mind would willfully choose terms such as these unless there was pressure form the USA or corruption was invovled:

BB, we've talk about this before,  about how we engineer favorable circumstances with-in governments we help create in the aftermath of a revolution or in this case and invasion.

this is one screwed up deal for the Iraqi people.  We are raping them.  Even a junior high School  Business kid wouldn''t go for a deal like this.

Actually, Saddam raped the Iraqi people.

What I'd like to know is whether these "Orders" are still the law of the land in Iraq.  Sounds like they were stop-gap measures, because the country had no government.  Even if they are still "the law," in reading them they sound to me like an attempt to attract business to a war-torn country.  Of course there had to be major incentives to attract business to place where you have to worry about getting your head blown off when you go to work.      

I'm not about to conclude that our government was involved in corruption to help rebuild the country based on this guy's article.  There are good and bad deals, laws, etc. all the time.  How often have we been raped by foreign governments when it comes to taxes and our exports?    

And whatever we are doing, it is an improvement over the dictator who stole the country's resources for decades.      

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2007, 01:53:39 PM »
Actually, Saddam raped the Iraqi people.

What I'd like to know is whether these "Orders" are still the law of the land in Iraq.  Sounds like they were stop-gap measures, because the country had no government.  Even if they are still "the law," in reading them they sound to me like an attempt to attract business to a war-torn country.  Of course there had to be major incentives to attract business to place where you have to worry about getting your head blown off when you go to work.     

I'm not about to conclude that our government was involved in corruption to help rebuild the country based on this guy's article.  There are good and bad deals, laws, etc. all the time.  How often have we been raped by foreign governments when it comes to taxes and our exports?     

And whatever we are doing, it is an improvement over the dictator who stole the country's resources for decades.       

I agree that what ever we are doing it's better then what Saddam was doing. 

But we are profiting from their resources,  profit that should go to the Iraqi people.

i like the one that's very comparable to Walmart opening in a small town, where we took away the tarifs and essentially closed down Iraqi businesses because they couldn't compete with the low price of foreign goods being sold in their country.   Brilliant.

Those terms are awful, No wonder why France was so eager to get into the "rebuild" Iraq circus.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2007, 01:54:28 PM »
And I will concede that the language of PSAs re choice of forum is not unique to the Iraqi PSA but that it is common to all PSAs.  That's what I get for trying to multi-task here at work. 

Foreign investment happens as the result of bargaining between 2 parties...one of which is foreign.  The selling off of Iraqi infrastructure (not just the oil assets) is indicative of a plunder.  Only in this case, the plunder is not absolute rather it is given the veneer of propriety b/c Iraq is given a taste of the gate, so to speak, even though the infrastructure was Iraqi property.

This privatization of foreign infrastructure strikes me as anti-capitalist and anti-free market b/c bargaining was absent and the side with the most bargaining leverage lost out.

Hey I multi-task all the time.   :)  Keeping working at it.  It gets easier.  

Decker I don't see plunder here.  Even if it is a "bad" business deal, there is a definite benefit to the Iraqi people.  How hard do you think it is to attract good businesses to a war zone?  And it sounds like they don't have the internal expertise to do their own construction.  I was talking to a friend this past weekend who is stationed in Iraq and he described large parts of Iraq as primitive.      

I really don't see the logical distinction between the international investment in Iraq and the foreign investment that happens in the U.S.  As I look out my office window, I would estimate at least 30 percent, and possibly more, of the office buildings are foreign owned.  I understand there are negotiations between private entities and that under the orders in the article you posted there apparently wasn't negotiation (or was there?).  But the end result is essentially the same:  foreign investment.    

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2007, 01:56:04 PM »
Actually, Saddam raped the Iraqi people.

What I'd like to know is whether these "Orders" are still the law of the land in Iraq.  Sounds like they were stop-gap measures, because the country had no government.  Even if they are still "the law," in reading them they sound to me like an attempt to attract business to a war-torn country.  Of course there had to be major incentives to attract business to place where you have to worry about getting your head blown off when you go to work.      

I'm not about to conclude that our government was involved in corruption to help rebuild the country based on this guy's article.  There are good and bad deals, laws, etc. all the time.  How often have we been raped by foreign governments when it comes to taxes and our exports?    

And whatever we are doing, it is an improvement over the dictator who stole the country's resources for decades.      
What Saddam did was his business.  The assertion that we may rob the Iraqi people a little less than the former ruler is poor justification for your contention. 

The Iraqi constitution codified the rulings of Bremer.

"How often have we (the US) been raped by foreign gov. when it comes to taxes and our exports?"  I don't know.  What's the world's fastest animal?

Why is this stuff relevant to the US/UK taking advantage of Iraq to put oil companies in a superior position with respect to Iraqi oil?  It's not.  What the US has done is inexcusable.

Once again, you claim the right to step into Iraqi affairs, pass your own judgment and dole out the sentence. 

Where do you get this right?  Where does the US get this right?

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2007, 01:57:19 PM »
BB, do you think we should allow foreign investment in this country under terms like those?

Can't compare the two IMO.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2007, 02:03:05 PM »
What Saddam did was his business.  The assertion that we may rob the Iraqi people a little less than the former ruler is poor justification for your contention. 

The Iraqi constitution codified the rulings of Bremer.

"How often have we (the US) been raped by foreign gov. when it comes to taxes and our exports?"  I don't know.  What's the world's fastest animal?

Why is this stuff relevant to the US/UK taking advantage of Iraq to put oil companies in a superior position with respect to Iraqi oil?  It's not.  What the US has done is inexcusable.

Once again, you claim the right to step into Iraqi affairs, pass your own judgment and dole out the sentence. 

Where do you get this right?  Where does the US get this right?

I did not say we are robbing the Iraqi people.  I don't believe that.

We stepped in and enacted rules, orders, laws, or whatever because they had none.  The country was run by a dictator.  What were we supposed to do?  Make no decisions until their government was in place?  We did what was necessary. 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2007, 02:05:12 PM »
BB, do you think we should allow foreign investment in this country under terms like those?

Can't compare the two IMO.

I don't know what laws govern foreign investment in our country, but they're probably pretty liberal.  That's why we have so much foreign owned property and businesses in Hawaii.  They're all over the place. 

So, I guess the short answer is we allow whatever foreign investment that legally crosses the border under whatever terms they are able to negotiate. 

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2007, 02:05:28 PM »
I did not say we are robbing the Iraqi people.  I don't believe that.

We stepped in and enacted rules, orders, laws, or whatever because they had none.  The country was run by a dictator.  What were we supposed to do?  Make no decisions until their government was in place?  We did what was necessary. 

So we couldn't have made decisions that at least were FAIR to the Iraqi people when it came to their industry?

I don;t get what you are saying here.

It seems like you are justifying exploitation here.

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2007, 02:08:27 PM »
I don't know what laws govern foreign investment in our country, but they're probably pretty liberal.  That's why we have so much foreign owned property and businesses in Hawaii.  They're all over the place. 

So, I guess the short answer is we allow whatever foreign investment that legally crosses the border under whatever terms they are able to negotiate. 

You might want to re-read those terms.  I doubt any investment in this country has terms like that.

People invest in the USA because of our economy and our strong middle class.  Buying property in the US is a no-brainer if you can do it.  Japanese investors saw the market potential of Hawaii long ago and started investing.  There investing terms are probably similar to the US companies and individuals who invest in the USA also.

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2007, 02:09:21 PM »
Hey I multi-task all the time.   :)  Keeping working at it.  It gets easier.  

Decker I don't see plunder here.  Even if it is a "bad" business deal, there is a definite benefit to the Iraqi people.  How hard do you think it is to attract good businesses to a war zone?  And it sounds like they don't have the internal expertise to do their own construction.  I was talking to a friend this past weekend who is stationed in Iraq and he described large parts of Iraq as primitive.      

I really don't see the logical distinction between the international investment in Iraq and the foreign investment that happens in the U.S.  As I look out my office window, I would estimate at least 30 percent, and possibly more, of the office buildings are foreign owned.  I understand there are negotiations between private entities and that under the orders in the article you posted there apparently wasn't negotiation (or was there?).  But the end result is essentially the same:  foreign investment.    
Yeah, but I'm really bad at it--I'll quantify that statement someday.

Let me understand this.

Congress grants the president authority to use force against Iraq (pursuant to War Powers Resolution presumably)

The president goes to the UN seeking to enforce UN Resolutions against Iraq for WMDs
(He had to, Iraq did not attack the US nor was attack imminent nor did Iraq attack an ally of ours)

The US attacks Iraq in violation of UN Res. 1441. b/c Bush ordered the attack before the WMD inspectors finish inspecting for WMDs

The US stays and occupies Iraq giving foreign investors access to most Iraqi infrastructure and the Iraq people are helpless to do anything about it.  PSAs have a shelf life of 25-40 years. (Is this typical foreign investment?)

Now granted the Iraqi people get some crumbs thrown their way but why does the bulk of profit have to go to corporations outside of Iraq?

The business of Iraq is the Iraqi's concern...not the US or UK's.



Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2007, 02:10:30 PM »
So we couldn't have made decisions that at least were FAIR to the Iraqi people when it came to their industry?

I don;t get what you are saying here.

It seems like you are justifying exploitation here.

We're just disagreeing on whether the terms were "fair" to the Iraqi people.  As I read them, in context, they don't seem "unfair" to me if the purpose was to attract business, when the Iraqi people apparently couldn't do the business themselves.  Looks like major incentives to attract international business.    

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2007, 02:11:45 PM »
So we couldn't have made decisions that at least were FAIR to the Iraqi people when it came to their industry?

I don;t get what you are saying here.

It seems like you are justifying exploitation here.
That's an excellent point.  The free market is predicated on bargaining.  The US moved into Iraq and removed that option from the Iraqi people regarding their own resources.

ieffinhatecardio

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5202
  • More proof God is a man.
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2007, 02:21:24 PM »
So did it turn out that 240 was correct in his original point or is he wrong as others have asserted?

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2007, 03:52:28 PM »
We're just disagreeing on whether the terms were "fair" to the Iraqi people.  As I read them, in context, they don't seem "unfair" to me if the purpose was to attract business, when the Iraqi people apparently couldn't do the business themselves.  Looks like major incentives to attract international business.   

Is it "fair" at the expense of the Iraqi people? 

Let's take a look:


"Order No. 39 allows for: (1) privatization of Iraq's 200 state-owned enterprises; (2) 100% foreign ownership of Iraqi businesses; (3) "national treatment" — which means no preferences for local over foreign businesses; (4) unrestricted, tax-free remittance of all profits and other funds; and (5) 40-year ownership licenses.

"Thus, it forbids Iraqis from receiving preference in the reconstruction while allowing foreign corporations — Halliburton and Bechtel, for example — to buy up Iraqi businesses, do all of the work and send all of their money home. They cannot be required to hire Iraqis or to reinvest their money in the Iraqi economy. They can take out their investments at any time and in any amount.


So if you read this, we come in and dispose of the current dictator, and don't allow Iraqi's a first opportunity at their own state owned enterprises but instead allow foreign investors to either  outbid them or beat them to it.  And they get it tax free. 

Is this fair to the Iraqis?

Are we saying there isn't any construction companies in Iraq or construction workers?


"Orders No. 57 and No. 77 ensure the implementation of the orders by placing U.S.-appointed auditors and inspector generals in every government ministry, with five-year terms and with sweeping authority over contracts, programs, employees and regulations.



You think we are going to place people in these minitries who aren't going to protect our interests?  We've talked about this before and here's it is in black and white.


"Order No. 17 grants foreign contractors, including private security firms, full immunity from Iraq's laws. Even if they, say, kill someone or cause an environmental disaster, the injured party cannot turn to the Iraqi legal system. Rather, the charges must be brought to U.S. courts.
 

We are allowing foreign companies not be immune to Iraqi laws?   And you are comparing this with foreign investment in the USA?


"Order No. 40 allows foreign banks to purchase up to 50% of Iraqi banks. 
 

So we allowed foreign companies to come in and take over 50% of the banking in Iraq rather than keep the banks and the revenue from loans int eh hand sof the Iraqis?   


"Order No. 12 (renewed on Feb. 24) suspends "all tariffs, customs duties, import taxes, licensing fees and similar surcharges for goods entering or leaving Iraq." This led to an immediate and dramatic inflow of cheap foreign consumer products — devastating local producers and sellers who were thoroughly unprepared to meet the challenge of their mammoth global competitors."
"To further embed a U.S. corporate economy in Iraq, the Iraq Constitution contained provisions that approve the Bremer Orders."
 

Would we do this in the USA?  would we ever allow this?   How is this fair BB?  we just allowed thousands of Iraqi owned business to get undercut. 


Interim Prime Minister "Allawi called for all undeveloped oil and gas fields to be turned over to private international oil companies. This, at a time when only seventeen of Iraq's eighty known oil fields have been developed. Article 109 of the Iraq Constitution re-enforces this goal stating that the federal government only administers existing oil and gas fields."
http://democracyrising.us/content/view/483/151/
 

This is the most despicable of all,  Allawi, who is obviously not on the side of his own people just gave 63 oil fields to foreign companies.  That's Iraq's oil that was given away.  Would you call that fair?


The more and more i read this the worse it is.

this is plain exploitation.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2007, 04:33:58 PM »
Is it "fair" at the expense of the Iraqi people? 

Let's take a look:

So if you read this, we come in and dispose of the current dictator, and don't allow Iraqi's a first opportunity at their own state owned enterprises but instead allow foreign investors to either  outbid them or beat them to it.  And they get it tax free. 

Is this fair to the Iraqis?

Are we saying there isn't any construction companies in Iraq or construction workers?
 

You think we are going to place people in these minitries who aren't going to protect our interests?  We've talked about this before and here's it is in black and white.

We are allowing foreign companies not be immune to Iraqi laws?   And you are comparing this with foreign investment in the USA?

So we allowed foreign companies to come in and take over 50% of the banking in Iraq rather than keep the banks and the revenue from loans int eh hand sof the Iraqis?   

Would we do this in the USA?  would we ever allow this?   How is this fair BB?  we just allowed thousands of Iraqi owned business to get undercut. 

This is the most despicable of all,  Allawi, who is obviously not on the side of his own people just gave 63 oil fields to foreign companies.  That's Iraq's oil that was given away.  Would you call that fair?


The more and more i read this the worse it is.

this is plain exploitation.

Like I said, it looks to me like major incentives to attract international business to do work that the Iraqis probably cannot do on their own.  I am not bothered by the tax incentives, banks, or immunity.  I don't like the preference issue (assuming the article is correct).  But at the end of the day, they are inviting foreign companies to invest in Iraq and make some money in return.  I'm not worked up over this.  We have foreign owned businesses all over the United States.  This isn't groundbreaking.  I would be much more concerned if we were displacing Iraqi workers, or if the U.S. was the only country permitted to take advantage of these "Orders."  A lot of Iraq is backwater (according to my friend).  He said you can go into a town and people will be bathing and urinating in the same river (different parts of the river).  Sounds to me like Iraq needs foreign labor and money.     

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2007, 05:25:18 PM »
Like I said, it looks to me like major incentives to attract international business to do work that the Iraqis probably cannot do on their own.  I am not bothered by the tax incentives, banks, or immunity.  I don't like the preference issue (assuming the article is correct).  But at the end of the day, they are inviting foreign companies to invest in Iraq and make some money in return.  I'm not worked up over this.  We have foreign owned businesses all over the United States.  This isn't groundbreaking.  I would be much more concerned if we were displacing Iraqi workers, or if the U.S. was the only country permitted to take advantage of these "Orders."  A lot of Iraq is backwater (according to my friend).  He said you can go into a town and people will be bathing and urinating in the same river (different parts of the river).  Sounds to me like Iraq needs foreign labor and money.     


I see those "incentives" as unfair and set up at the expense of the Iraqi people.

Business incentives come in the form of tax breaks not near exclusive rights to resources.  Purposely Putting a company in position to get out bid is not putting the interests of the Iraqis first.

It's not that they don't help, but at what cost to their country?

We don't allow foreign companies to operate with those terms and advantages in this country, that's why i don't understand why you keep comparing the 2.  Oranges and Apples.  They are both fruit but that's it.

And what of the 63 undeveloped oil fields that pretty much other companies own, not the iraqi people?

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2007, 07:52:33 PM »

I see those "incentives" as unfair and set up at the expense of the Iraqi people.

Business incentives come in the form of tax breaks not near exclusive rights to resources.  Purposely Putting a company in position to get out bid is not putting the interests of the Iraqis first.

It's not that they don't help, but at what cost to their country?

We don't allow foreign companies to operate with those terms and advantages in this country, that's why i don't understand why you keep comparing the 2.  Oranges and Apples.  They are both fruit but that's it.

And what of the 63 undeveloped oil fields that pretty much other companies own, not the iraqi people?

Sounds like the same tree to me.  Maybe bigger fruit.   :)  We're going in circles.  I don't want repeat what I've already said, but I'm not worked up over this.  (See my prior responses.)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2007, 08:45:05 PM »
Sounds like the same tree to me.  Maybe bigger fruit.   :)  We're going in circles.  I don't want repeat what I've already said, but I'm not worked up over this.  (See my prior responses.)

i can see you aren't   ;)


Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2007, 06:33:55 AM »
Like I said, it looks to me like major incentives to attract international business to do work that the Iraqis probably cannot do on their own.  I am not bothered by the tax incentives, banks, or immunity.  I don't like the preference issue (assuming the article is correct).  But at the end of the day, they are inviting foreign companies to invest in Iraq and make some money in return.  I'm not worked up over this.  We have foreign owned businesses all over the United States.  This isn't groundbreaking.  I would be much more concerned if we were displacing Iraqi workers, or if the U.S. was the only country permitted to take advantage of these "Orders."  A lot of Iraq is backwater (according to my friend).  He said you can go into a town and people will be bathing and urinating in the same river (different parts of the river).  Sounds to me like Iraq needs foreign labor and money.     
BeachBum Iraq is not inviting foreign investors.  Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Iraq.

The US/UK invaded Iraq and forced these measures on the Iraqi people.

This is not supposed to be the normal course of business.  The Iraqis did not ask for foreign bids to repair a country that we destroyed or to manage an oil industry that we co-opted.  We invaded the country and set the terms of how that country was to be run while slicing up its assets.

militarymuscle69

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2655
  • You can't be a citizen unless you serve
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2007, 06:35:15 AM »
BeachBum Iraq is not inviting foreign investors.  Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Iraq.

The US/UK invaded Iraq and forced these measures on the Iraqi people.

This is not supposed to be the normal course of business.  The Iraqis did not ask for foreign bids to repair a country that we destroyed or to manage an oil industry that we co-opted.  We invaded the country and set the terms of how that country was to be run while slicing up its assets.

"Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Iraq."

lets correct that statement: Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Saddam.

gotta love life

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2007, 06:40:21 AM »
So did it turn out that 240 was correct in his original point or is he wrong as others have asserted?
I don't know.  I didn't think opec prices were managed that way.  Anyways, I think that is not a very big issue compared to selling of Iraq oil rights simply b/c the US illegally invaded the country and ran Iraq as if it were a possession. 

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2007, 08:36:06 AM »
"Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Iraq."

lets correct that statement: Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Saddam.


Even if that's true, what business is it of yours or the US?

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63943
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Buying Oil under market value.
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2007, 09:01:45 AM »
BeachBum Iraq is not inviting foreign investors.  Prior to the invasion, Iraqi infrastructure was nationalized meaning it belonged to Iraq.

The US/UK invaded Iraq and forced these measures on the Iraqi people.

This is not supposed to be the normal course of business.  The Iraqis did not ask for foreign bids to repair a country that we destroyed or to manage an oil industry that we co-opted.  We invaded the country and set the terms of how that country was to be run while slicing up its assets.

Decker if they're not inviting foreign investors then who gets the PSAs? 

Before the invasion, the entire country, including its oil and infrastructure, was controlled by one man.  The Iraqi people didn't control anything before the war.  It was one man who pillaged and plundered . . . and kept about a billion dollars under his mattress. 

It wasn't just the US/UK.  There is a multinational force in Iraq. 

We helped set up rules for a country that had none and made it easier for that country to attract investors to rebuild a country that was destroyed by a brutal dictator.