Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: dj181 on July 24, 2012, 02:36:33 PM
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i've been at 9-10% for the past few months but i'm thinking bout really going all-out and hitting a legit sub-6
i'm not too sure exactly how many cals i've been comsuming the past few months, but i'd say somewhere around 2000-2500
for "dieting" i can handle going as low as 800 cals per day
anyways, my question is... should i cycle my calorie deficit with my "on" time?
meaning, should i go with ultra low cals for 3 weeks while i'm the sdrol, and then go back to my normal intake for one week while i have my off time?
i'm off right now, and for the past 3 days i've eaten about 600-1000 cals each day
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keep calories always about the same, withing 200+- range.
imo.
yeah, that could be the ticket man, coz the metabolites are still present within the cell for up to 2 weeks after the last dose
also another important point for me is not to load up on the cals after i hit the desired bodyfat level, coz i seem to do this pretty often, which i guess comes from being so deprived of cals while "dieting" ie. starving ;D
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I did 800 calories a day for about a week and fainted while I was benching. Luckily I was really weak then, it was only 185 pounds but it fell straight onto my head. I wasn't on gear at the time so that might make a HUGE difference, but be careful lol.
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600-1000 cals a day will have you lookin like that skinny guy here who posts pics of his "amazing biceps" thread...
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that's true, i wouldn't keep it that low for more than 2 weeks, and i'll maybe even just go 10 days with it
it will be kind of a kick start so to speak, and then after the 2 weeks or 10 days i'll go more moderate, like say 1500-1800
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i'm into my 5th day on this ultra lo cal gig, and last nite and today i feel/felt very energized and even a bit aggressive, which is strange coz i'm only eating roughly 800 cals per day, and i've been off the sdrol for 1 week now ???
maybe it's the bodies heightened response to being so deprived of cals? the old "fight or flight" phenomenon
i was reading a bit of Lyle McDonald's quick fat-loss protocol, and he advises that guys who are already relatively lean sub-10 or so, just follow this ultra lo cal gig for just 10 days, so i think that sounds a good plan 8)
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i'm into my 5th day on this ultra lo cal gig, and last nite and today i feel/felt very energized and even a bit aggressive, which is strange coz i'm only eating roughly 800 cals per day, and i've been off the sdrol for 1 week now ???
maybe it's the bodies heightened response to being so deprived of cals? the old "fight or flight" phenomenon
i was reading a bit of Lyle McDonald's quick fat-loss protocol, and he advises that guys who are already relatively lean sub-10 or so, just follow this ultra lo cal gig for just 10 days, so i think that sounds a good plan 8)
Sometimes low cals will energize you at first but if too long you lose energy and strength.
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Sometimes low cals will energize you at first but if too long you lose energy and strength.
exactly, and that's why i'll keep it to 10 days
by the way, what's your thoughts on this whole protein issue?
yeah dude, that's a bit of a loaded question, so you don't gotta answer it if you don't want to ;)
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exactly, and that's why i'll keep it to 10 days
by the way, what's your thoughts on this whole protein issue?
yeah dude, that's a bit of a loaded question, so you don't gotta answer it if you don't want to ;)
Protein is overrated most of it is money related supplement companies trying to make money. 60% of bodyweight in grams is fine.
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starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
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so far i've lost over an inch off my waist, and i "look" tighter and leaner, and i've lost about 5 pounds
but the problem with this is... how much of that loss was actually fat?
you see, it could be fat, it could be muscle (although i pray that it isn't), it could be water, and it also could be what a very knowlegdable trainer friend of mine from years ago used to call "food in the gut"
this "food in the gut" is literally that, "food in the gut" lol
it's not fat, not muscle, not water, and it comes from overeating and even normal eating, so once you undereat/starve most of this "food in the gut" will clear out
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the first couple pounds coming off will be water.
after a week aim for something like a 1-2lbs weight loss weekly.
what's your thoughts on adding muscle while losing fat at the same time?
years back, i did it naturally (with the help of creatine ;D) and i gained 5 pounds over the course of 5 weeks and went down 1% bodyfat, from 12.4% to 11.2% and my leg strength went up quite a bit over that 5 week period, as i added over 100 pounds to my leg press
IMO, it's probably much harder to do that when you're a bit leaner (meaning 8-9%) which i appear to be right now
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starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
Great advice.
::)
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do you think the same applies when dieting low calories , and on steroids?
i agree, for a natty, they dont need any extra protein really
I say more protein on roids but not much more, cause they tend to push it into the cells more than a natty
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the funny thing about the protein gig is that since i've been cycling on/off for the past 4 months i've only been eating roughly 100-120 grams of protein per day during the whole course of the last 4 months, and guess what?
i've added over a full inch to each arm and almost 2 full inches to each leg and my strength as gone up accordingly
since i've been on this ultra low cal gig, i'm only getting in roughly 50-60 protein grams daily, and my stength has been maintained, which is a clear indindication that i'm not losing any muscle
i have a real crap "diet" and i don't eat tuna and skinless chicken breasts, so that's basically why my protein intake is so damn low
right now my breakfast is coffee with milk and sugar and half of a ham and cheese sandwich and then for dinner i eat breaded chicken strips or ckicken wings with sause ;D
i still keep the total cals at round 800 daily but most of these cals are not coming from protein, and it's not hurting me
so in my opinon this protein push is a load of horseshit lol
flame on
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nah its not horseshit.its that your approach will work too, just with not the same good results and will take longer.
is the difference which wont be too big worth it, thats the question.
i find it easier to diet on clean food.
and to get into proper contest shape a clean diet will be necesary for last couple weeks, but youre not aiming for contest shape, so yeah why bother.
i assume your talking sub-4 when you say "contest shape" right?
i was able to hit sub-6 with this method, and on a side note i stayed at this level of bodyfat for well over 3 months no probs
it was relatively easy to hold and maintain it (i just keep up the training and made sure not to over-eat) and i felt good and energetic thoughout this whole time, but it was not so easy getting there lol
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and on a side note, 15 said that 5.5% is the absolute lowest level of bf a lifetime natty can achieve, and i was a lifetime natty at that point in time ;D
but.... 15 also seemed to say something to the fact that genetics pretty much mean fuck all with regards to "bodybuilding" success (as he was saing to the peeps on here "take these combination of drugs and you too will become mr. o" ::) when in fact genetics are the CORNERSTONE to bodybuilding success
genetics as far as response to proper training and response to the drugs and tolerance to them as well, and also with structure and joint size and muscle length, and all of those things are genetically determined
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yeah maintaining is easier than getting there by a huge margin
yeah, contest shape, 4%.thats a long way from 6%, where many things can go wrong.
but why use this method for suboptimal results?is it lazyness?results will be better with the oldschool method, and faster.
genetics are everything, drugs come in later.look no further than all the people on gear who look like shit.
then look at some black guys who dont know what a gym is and dwarf and outlean the geared up guys.
you got me dude, i use that method coz it's much easier than "clean" eating
i don't really have much of a sweet tooth, so simple carbs aren't so hard to avoid, but i just love me some greasy and fatty foods ;D
and also, i just hate the idea of following others and doing what they tell me to do, so i try and make sure that when they tell me to turn left that i turn right 8) in fact, i had some phone consultations with Mike Mentzer shortly before he passed, and he used to call me "wild horse" coz i wouldn't follow his exact training protocol and i was jumping around from thing to thing lol
IMO genetics are the cornerstone to bodybuilding success, but you gotta be sure and train right in order to make sure your genetic potential is fullfilled
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I never cycled just kept dropping
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keep calories always about the same, withing 200+- range.
imo.
X2
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yeah maintaining is easier than getting there by a huge margin
yeah, contest shape, 4%.thats a long way from 6%, where many things can go wrong.
but why use this method for suboptimal results?is it lazyness?results will be better with the oldschool method, and faster.
genetics are everything, drugs come in later.look no further than all the people on gear who look like shit.
then look at some black guys who dont know what a gym is and dwarf and outlean the geared up guys.
Spot on or everyone would be Mr O.
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yeah dj181, but then why ask people for tips when you dont care about the optimal way?
you ask and then come back and say something like "i wont do it either way, its all overrated"
why should ppl bother replying to someone with that attitude.
My thoughts exactly.
dj181 you should at least try other methods instead of twisting everything around just for the sake of making it ''your own''...
Just food for thought.
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My thoughts exactly.
dj181 you should at least try other methods instead of twisting everything around just for the sake of making it ''your own''...
Just food for thought.
actually i did try clean dieting for awhile (ie. chicken breasts, raw veggies, and some brown rice from time to time) and my strength plummeted and i got flatter
IMO it was because of too low of a fat and carb intake intake (carb fill the muscle the water, and fats are needed for proper hormone regulation)
and yeah fellas, i'll admit that i was a bit of a dickhead here, so sorry bout that
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i say i agree, however, on roids, how much protein one needs depends on the following factors
-how much carbs and fats are consumed
-how much cardio or moving around(physical demanding job)is done
-workout frequency
yes, tbombs shouldnt give out any dieting advice.he is right on having protein frequently and go into starvation on steroids, but where i strongly disagre with is that one should stuff themselves with whatever they want during a cutting diet.
i dont even find recarb days necesary until the diet is all done with.
im no authority on fatloss, but i get very lean very fast following the above.
but it happens to the best that they stuff themselves with bad food during a diet bc of cravings becoming unbearable, if it happens, just wait till youre starving badly again before next meal, thatll reduce the damage done.but theres no way you can get shredded with tbombs advice.
LOL
no way you can get shredded by doing lots of cardio, eating very little calories with a moderate amount of protein while using steroids and lifting weights ????
;D
guys this shit isnt rocket science!!!!!
eat less, move more !!!!!! stop worrying about all the bullshit !!! "starvation mode", "eat to lose", blah blah blah !!!! its all bullshit !! just need a little bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and your good to go !!!
EAT LESS, MOVE MORE !!! KISS !!!!
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actually i did try clean dieting for awhile (ie. chicken breasts, raw veggies, and some brown rice from time to time) and my strength plummeted and i got flatter
IMO it was because of too low of a fat and carb intake intake (carb fill the muscle the water, and fats are needed for proper hormone regulation)
and yeah fellas, i'll admit that i was a bit of a dickhead here, so sorry bout that
I understand what you are saying. You want to be in shape, but you don't want to kill yourself getting/staying there. So if i was you, here's what i'd do: eat a normal breakfast then train few hours after that, eat something light and nutritious for PWO and then have something like steak and vegetables for dinner. That's still low calorie, highly nutritious, more or less how "normal" people eat and it's easy to follow. I bet you'll feel good too.
just my 2 cents.
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I understand what you are saying. You want to be in shape, but you don't want to kill yourself getting/staying there. So if i was you, here's what i'd do: eat a normal breakfast then train few hours after that, eat something light and nutritious for PWO and then have something like steak and vegetables for dinner. That's still low calorie, highly nutritious, more or less how "normal" people eat and it's easy to follow. I bet you'll feel good too.
just my 2 cents.
thanks man, and that's basically pretty much what i'm gonna do now, except i'll eat a light breakfast and a light dinner, and keep my most caloric dense meal for my post workout meal (daily total cals will now be around 1500-1800)
so now i'm done with the starvation 800 cal mode, and i'll stick with this 3 square meals protocol
also, i'm gonna do this without any aerobic training, so we will see...
BTW, it's best to keep the superdrol dose to pre-workout, 30-60 minutes before the training session, right?
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BTW, it's best to keep the superdrol dose to pre-workout, 30-60 minutes before the training session, right?
Yes, that will do fine.
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starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
Probably the worst advice I have ever read on dieting.
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thatll work until 10% or so, after that, youll have to get more strict.
true enough for most people, but most people have never been a legit 10% in their life, and would do well to forget about all the stuff competitive bodybuilders talk about during contest prep and just "EAT LESS, MOVE MORE"!!!!!!
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Probably the worst advice I have ever read on dieting.
not just on "dieting" but on training as well
sorry bombz, but just calling it like i see it
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true enough for most people, but most people have never been a legit 10% in their life, and would do well to forget about all the stuff competitive bodybuilders talk about during contest prep and just "EAT LESS, MOVE MORE"!!!!!!
allright dude, IMO it is as "easy" as just eating less, but....
training is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT
if you eat less and train like a dumbass, or don't train at all, then you will get leaner, but you will also lose muscle as well, and you won't look impressive
but.... if you eat less and train "right" meaning effectively making steady PROGRESS (this the the key dude PROGRESS) you will look outstanding, or at least much better than if you don't train at all or train like a dumbass
case in point, all of my training loads have increased since starting the sdrol, but my squat and row training loads have increased the most, and guess what...
my quads and lats have made the greatest size increases, and these size increases are the DIRECT RESULT of these greater increased training loads
what's the best training method to achieve progressive overload? IMO it's some kinda form of HIT, but not extreme HIT ie. Mentzer's Consolidation Routine, and not Max-OT either (another form of HIT) as it is a bit too much IMO
right now, i'm doing 3 or 4 failure sets per bodypart and it's working quite well, but again, this is me and my own honest personal experience
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allright dude, IMO it is as "easy" as just eating less, but....
training is VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT
if you eat less and train like a dumbass, or don't train at all, then you will get leaner, but you will also lose muscle as well, and you won't look impressive
but.... if you eat less and train "right" meaning effectively making steady PROGRESS (this the the key dude PROGRESS) you will look outstanding, or at least much better than if you don't train at all or train like a dumbass
case in point, all of my training loads have increased since starting the sdrol, but my squat and row training loads have increased the most, and guess what...
my quads and lats have made the greatest size increases, and these size increases are the DIRECT RESULT of these greater increased training loads
what's the best training method to achieve progressive overload? IMO it's some kinda form of HIT, but not extreme HIT ie. Mentzer's Consolidation Routine, and not Max-OT either (another form of HIT) as it is a bit too much IMO
right now, i'm doing 3 or 4 failure sets per bodypart and it's working quite well, but again, this is me and my own honest personal experience
Agreed with DJ. The key is first genes or there would be 100 Mr O's, HIT is the best most people are gym rats thats why they go everyday and just fuck around. People only have a limited recovery ability so as you get stronger you need to train less cause your recovery ability never increases. Woody Allen would never win the O even if he trained 7 days a week and took ever roid in the book.
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my advice about training was spot on, i wasnt giving a seminar on the topic so i left it a bit vague and certain interpretations may ot have gotten the intended point but squeexing the muscle and staying out the gym untill your no longer sore is a good basic guideling.. people ahev differeng ideas on the subject.. however.. to be quite blunt, and i dont mean to hate to you dj, but i looked better than you when i was 17, natural, and had only been training for 2 years.. youve been training for decades and no one would even know you lift dude.. as a natural, i think your training is all fucked up.. all the best naturals i know train their fucking assess off.. all the best looking professional atheletes.. my self when i was just starting out and still natural.. the harder i worked, the longer i stayed in the gym, the more sets i went to failure, the more times i went past failure, the better results i got.. now days since ive pushed passed the natural platue my muscles do respond much better to stimulation as opposed to annihilation but i really think this kind of training is only suitable for people who have broken past the natural potential of the human body.. and for all those who are truly natural pure hard work is key.. kind of unrelated to the subject at hand.. just wanted to give you a bit of advice because youve been on this board for years now and despite all your talk of progress i dont think weve ever seen a picture of you where you look as muscular as michael phelps does.. ;D as for training/dieting while juiced.. its different story.. junk can be eaten.. the muscles should be made love to, never rough fucked.. supremely large calorie defecits can be tolerated without muscle losss... so can excessive amounts of cardio.. naturals need to eat around maintenance, healthy foods mainly, keep cardio sessions brief in duration, and train the fucking hell out of the muscles..
just my opinion..
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starve yourself for as long as you can tolerate it, train when your not sore anymore and focus on squeezing the muscle, eat some protein a couple times a day. keep calories as low as possible, do as much cardio as you can tolerate, when the hunger starts to drive you crazy go ahead and eat whatever your craving and untill you get so full you get sick of eating from stomach discomfort then proceed back to the starvation and cardio and training. honestly its this simple, ESPECIALLY on gear. you wont lose muscle, you dont have to "eat to lose" , you dont need to eat every few hours, you dont need to eat calories every day, just a bit of protein to ward off muscle loss and a big calorie defecit for extended periods of time. your metabolism wont slow down as long as you eat that meal of whatever your craving at a couple times a week. every few days should be fine. but listen to your muscles and how your feeling.
This is the worst advice I have ever heard in my life
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i have lost more total poundage than anyone on this forum .. that counts for something.. and i have never lost muscle on any diet i have ever done.. that also counts for something.. you guys can continue losing weight at a snails pace because your stuffing your face everyday thinking you have to do so to maintain muscle.. thats your choice... but take this nugget inside and digest it.. the goal when losing fat is to burn off stored energy.. not to feed your body energy from outside itself.. and as long as there is energy coming from outside.. its never going to burn the stuff stored inside.. now when your 8% bodyfat and trying to maintain muscle while getting down to 5% bodyfat.. that becomes a different story alltogether.. your body still isnt going to burn stored energy while it has energy coming from outside itself.. but your only going to be able to get away with a small calorie defecit or else your bodies going to react violently and shed muscle out of pure evolutionary suvival instinct.. but thats a totally different ballgame that what 99% of us are trying to accomplish
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Guys WTF is going on here, shit.
Listen cut the fucken calorie BS and all this mumbo jumbo, look it's this simple, cut some carbs out, if you hit a plateau such as 10% then cut more carbs out, if you hit another plateau say 8% then cut more carbs out.
Why is everyone complicating anything here. Now if you keep hitting plateaus then cut more carbs, if all your carbs are completely out then you will never hit another plateau period. You will simply lose fat until there is no fat left to lose.
I REPEAT WHEN THERE IS NO CARBS LEFT IN A DIET THERE WILL BE NO PLATEAU, YOU WILL LOSE TILL THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE, MY FUCKEN WORD ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH THIS DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
There is no secrets here people.
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LOL
theres no secrets
but the secret is carbohydrate intake
;D ;D ;D
what matters is calories in versus calories out.
one can get lean by cutting fats. or by cutting carbs. or by cutting a mixture of the two.
the only secret is burning more than you take in. not carbohydrate intake. lol
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Sorry Tbombs but losing weight like you have counts for shit, anyone that eats 10 000 calories a day and is 400 lb can lose 100lb in record time eating ice cream and twinkies all day long.
The only thing that counts is people that have thrived to reach single digit body fat level through sheer will and you have not earned that honor yet so excuse me for saying so, but you are not qualified to say that you know what you are talking about.
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LOL
theres no secrets
but the secret is carbohydrate intake
;D ;D ;D
what matters is calories in versus calories out.
one can get lean by cutting fats. or by cutting carbs. or by cutting a mixture of the two.
the only secret is burning more than you take in. not carbohydrate intake. lol
Wrong, calories in means shit bro, I can eat 5lb of chicken breast a day and not gain an once of fat period, I increase calories sometimes when I diet and still come out with striated glutes.
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Listen people, ignore everything else and just focus on carbs, that's it, trust me on no carbs your fat will get used no matter what and your protein will get used and what doesn't get used will be process through the other end in the form of dierhia. Protein will not convert to fat, I don't care what a stupid text book says or a damn doctor protein will not convert to fat, I eat literally unlimited amounts of protein and lose 40lb of fat in 10 -12 weeks, I repeat UNLIMITED AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN EVERY DAY.
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allright bombz, do i look like i even lift here?
yeah, i know that i'm not a massive guy there, but there's 3 things here....
1. i have SMALL FRAME 6 inch wrists, yes 6 fucking inches, around the biggest and thickest part
2. i was lifetime natty here
3. no offense fellas, but i don't want to be huge, in these pics i weigh a buck 55 my MAX desired wt is a buck 75-80 NO MORE (don't get offended dudes, i just like the slimmer athletic look) and yeah, i know that some will say a buck 75 baahahaha! but the funny thing is, a buck 75 @ sub-6% is pretty damn good, i just think that many dudes don't really understand what it is to be sitting @ sub-6, and they get all caught up in numbers
and a few more things i haven't been training for decades, i didn't train hardly at all for nearly 10 whole years
also, when i looked like how i looked in these photos i had MANY peeps come up and ask me, "how can i look like you?" all the way from young black kids to middle-aged white guys (no homo) ;D also, when i would go out for a run i had females very often scream shit at me from their cars, and no they weren't screaming "get away from me you ugly and toady asshole" LOL in fact, a few times i happened to be running with my girlfriend at the time, and she told me "put your shirt back on" coz she was so pissed off about the females gawking at me from their cars LOL
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man, brother,lol, my legs arent exactly monstrous, but damn, did you improve the legs since these pics?
you should.
when you say legs, do you mean quads or calves? ;D
my quads have improved due to the increased training loads i'm now using on them via squats, SLD's (which actually seemed to improve my lats more than anything else) and lunges
but my calves? well, that's just better left unsaid :D :D :D
on a side note..... i'd much rather watch paint dry than train calves LOL
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Wrong, calories in means shit bro, I can eat 5lb of chicken breast a day and not gain an once of fat period, I increase calories sometimes when I diet and still come out with striated glutes.
you probably wont gain fat eating nothing but protein but you sure as hell can inhibit fat loss by eating excessive amounts of it.
i strongly encourage everyone who is not already sub 10% with fully defined abdominals to stop worrying about all the bullshit and just starve yourself and work your ass off. a few small meals of protein and vegetables per day. and a cheat meal whenever you need it, but hold off for as long as possible before doing so. thats the best way to get rid of the fat. so long as you have visible fat stores on your body, your body will burn through them without hesitation and will not go for muscle mass as long as your eating just a bit of protein for hormonal/metabolic support. its only once you get lean that you have to take baby steps and keep the calorie defecit small and burn off the fat slowly to avoid muscle loss.
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^^^^ Fair enough, but let me explain something here; from 8% to 4% takes me a month only so you talking about losing to much muscle, well how much muscle can someone lose in 4 weeks? 5-8lb max, so it is worth the trade of, personally I lose maybe 2-3 lb in my entire dieting process, but I diet strict.
Look it isn't necessary to starve yourself, you can get shredded eating unlimited amounts of protein without carbs, this is a simple as it gets
Anyone who takes my advice here right now will get absolutely striated from top to bottom, simply do this;.....
UNLIMITED PROTEIN,
NO CARBS,
FAT INTAKE NO MORE THE 2.5 CALORIES WORTH PER LB.
This will get anyone to contest condition in record time, that simple.
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yeah, the above is exactly how it is.
its simple, but not easy.
and tbombs new post isnt even near to the previous one of his.
ofc eating only protein and vegs will get you shredded, even with a weekly cheat meal.but keep cheat meal at one weekly, not "whenever you feel like".on diet you always feel like eating sweets and cakes and fries.
it`s the hardest thing in the world, dieting like this sucks but hey, it`s only for the strong minded.
Yes cheat meal is once a week at most, personally I go 9-10 days, usually when I can`t take it anymore, but cheat meals are dangerous, they can trigger you into eating every thing in sight, so anyone having a cheat meal make sure you put up your guard is up big time.
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Agreed with DJ. The key is first genes or there would be 100 Mr O's, HIT is the best most people are gym rats thats why they go everyday and just fuck around. People only have a limited recovery ability so as you get stronger you need to train less cause your recovery ability never increases. Woody Allen would never win the O even if he trained 7 days a week and took ever roid in the book.
HIT works for some. Not everyone. And you cant say its the best, look at Arnold, his training style was far from HIT...trained 6 days a week sometimes 2x a day and his volume was huge. Results speaks for themselves.
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yes, i mean the quads and the calves.
dont be stupid, train the calves ,man.
look, mine, it was hard to get them to grow, but i got them to acceptable level now.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/nilon290.jpg
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc490/hadabusa/IMG_1491.jpg
dont take offense man,i like you, but how can you even discuss diets and whatd be best when you dont even train your full body?
bigger legs will make you look more symetrical, and the stress from training them will make the upper body grow some more for free.and with couple pounds of lean meat on your legs/ass, your metabolism will be faster, meaning,you get lean easier or you can get away with eating shit food more often.
comeon, if you only train half your body, leaving out the biggest muscles, theres no point in talking about diet, youre not going anywhere near full potential,mate.
dont be lazy,dont waste your time doing half assed things.do it right.
Oh my fuck those calf veins are sick! Didnt kno what the heck they were at first cuz I thought tyey were too big to be veins. Mirin
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HIT works for some. Not everyone. And you cant say its the best, look at Arnold, his training style was far from HIT...trained 6 days a week sometimes 2x a day and his volume was huge. Results speaks for themselves.
that true about arnold and volume training, but he built the majority of his size from a basic routine of ver heavy compound lifts ie. Reg Park style training 5*5 of squats, deads, rows, curls, benches, militaries
this 6 days a week twice a day training was basically a maintanice and refinement routine, as he got his massive size from heavy PROGRESSIVE training
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and an honest question here for you fellas...
have you ever seen anyone actually get bigger muscles without increasing their training loads?
i sure as hell haven't
and if you actually can increase the size of muscles without increasing your training loads then please tell me how to do it, coz i'd like to know
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that true about arnold and volume training, but he built the majority of his size from a basic routine of ver heavy compound lifts ie. Reg Park style training 5*5 of squats, deads, rows, curls, benches, militaries
this 6 days a week twice a day training was basically a maintanice and refinement routine, as he got his massive size from heavy PROGRESSIVE training
They all say that and I think its bullshit. Why would arnold go from something like HIT that he supposedly did that "built his base and size" and then change over to a "maintenance and refining" routine?
It doesnt make sense. why would u change something that supposedly works. Amd to clear things up, he did not train hit style at any point in his life. Ppl are saying he did just bc he powerlifted for a while so they assume he had to do hit.
Arnold repeatedly talks of training til he felt almost dead sets after set when he was younger and up and coming. Source: education of a bodybuilder, multiple biography books
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They all say that and I think its bullshit. Why would arnold go from something like HIT that he supposedly did that "built his base and size" and then change over to a "maintenance and refining" routine?
It doesnt make sense. why would u change something that supposedly works. Amd to clear things up, he did not train hit style at any point in his life. Ppl are saying he did just bc he powerlifted for a while so they assume he had to do hit.
Arnold repeatedly talks of training til he felt almost dead sets after set when he was younger and up and coming. Source: education of a bodybuilder, multiple biography books
but my point is...
arnold's increased training loads=arnold's larger muscles
it doesn't matter if he did 1 set or 1000 sets, what matters is that he PROGRESSIVELY OVERLOADED his muscles and this is EXACTLY what made them larger
i've got Zane's training diary, and guess what? he basically used the same training weights throughtout 1977 until 1979, and he always stepped onstage @ 185-190, and then... in 1983 he increased his training loads, and low and behold, he stepped onstage @ over 200 pounds
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HIT works for some. Not everyone. And you cant say its the best, look at Arnold, his training style was far from HIT...trained 6 days a week sometimes 2x a day and his volume was huge. Results speaks for themselves.
Genes man the man had or there would be 100 Mr O's. He trained with HIT at the Nautilus facility and AJ but it was too intense I assume so we went with volume. Not trying to be a ass but genes rule. Take a look a Sergio Olivia back in the 70's.
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but i'm not talking about a 1 rep max, i'm talking about weights used within one's training range, for example 10 reps
and yeah, maybe these people said they increased their size by decreasing training loads, but did they really? (on a side note, i do believe that one can maintain their size by somewhat decreasing their training loads, but i've yet to see decreased training loads cause a size increase)
not trying to be a dick dude, just asking an honest question
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and an honest question here for you fellas...
have you ever seen anyone actually get bigger muscles without increasing their training loads?
i sure as hell haven't
and if you actually can increase the size of muscles without increasing your training loads then please tell me how to do it, coz i'd like to know
My guess is up the dose...lol
I see what you're saying but remember it's also possible to get stronger and not increase in size....so diet also has something to do with it. Bigger muscles mean you should be able to lift more right....but what came first the muscle or the strength? lol
To me the ideal situation would be to get bigger without having to push such heavy weights so you can lift forever without joint/back pain etc.
As a natty there will be a cap on how big you can get so to me it has to do more with juice and how an individual responds to it rather than how he trains. My guess is anyone trying to get bigger and bigger for bodybuilding is more likely to increase dosages and amount/kind of drugs used rather than switch up their training scheme. Just like there's a natural limit for an individual certain doses will only take one so far...
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but i'm not talking about a 1 rep max, i'm talking about weights used within one's training range, for example 10 reps
and yeah, maybe these people said they increased their size by decreasing training loads, but did they really? (on a side note, i do believe that one can maintain their size by somewhat decreasing their training loads, but i've yet to see decreased training loads cause a size increase)
not trying to be a dick dude, just asking an honest question
a year ago i was using 315 for sets of 8 on bench and barbell row, curling the 80lb dumbells for sets of 6, doing military press behind the neck with 275... today im doing bench with 135-185, pulldowns with 100lbs, tricep extensions with 25 lb dumbells... and my muscles are bigger and shapelier than ever.. of course.. as they grow bigger ill be bale to use more weight.. but what matters for bodybuilding, at least juiced bodybuilding, at least for me, is proper technique.. very very slow negatives on every single rep.. forceful but controlled positives on every rep, and a hard tight squeeze at peak contraction on every single rep.. when you lift that way, focusing on working the muscle rather than lifting the weight.. especially with the slow negative _im talking at least 5 second on the negative) and a hard squeeze at peak contraction.. you can only use a very light weight and you will fatigue very quickly.. i do not train to fialure either.. iand i do moderate to low volume..... STIMULATE, dont annihilate - lee haney..
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This pretty much sums it up^^
As far as what is better for building muscle, Volume vs Intensity, well the goal for maximum muscle gains is to completely destroy every fast-twich muscle fiber you can and both ways can accomplish this. Personally I prefer intensity, 12 sets per muscle group but resting 3-4 minutes between sets and mentally preparing for every single set as it where my main set. Once in a while I will hit a long volume workout as well.
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I did 800 calories a day for about a week and fainted while I was benching. Luckily I was really weak then, it was only 185 pounds but it fell straight onto my head. I wasn't on gear at the time so that might make a HUGE difference, but be careful lol.
Ouch! And that's crazy! 800 cals wth? I was cutting on 4000 calories last year lol..
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Ouch! And that's crazy! 800 cals wth? I was cutting on 4000 calories last year lol..
cuuting on 4000 cals :o :o :o
how cut did you get? did you at least get to sub-6?
also, were you following "god's" magicial protocol of tren and gh?
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i always alternate workouts, either i do 1 week of light training, something like 120-220 lbs on bench for many reps(yes ,lol,120), then followed by heavy workout next week, 220-400lbs.i can do 5-6reps with 400 on good day, dj181, thats far far from 1 single rep training.
when i feel really fresh and have plenty time, i do both the above in the same training session.
on steroids, both approaches will work.its rather to do with proper diet and flexing properly than anything else imo.
however, one thing will tremendously help, and this is a strong foundation built at young age.strong foundation as in being strong.then you can play around with pretty big weights and be intense.
if someone hasnt got the strenght yet and is over 30,hes at brutal disadvantage forever.
allright man, but your basically just maintaining the size that you already have with that style of training, and as i said before maintaining size is MUCH EASIER than gaining size, and in fact i even believe that you can lighten training loads a bit in order to maintain your current size
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400 for 6 is strong as fuck dude
do you do those reps relatively clean? meaning no bridging and no bouncing
i was JM Blakely's lift-off man at a shirt-free bench press meet that he did many years ago, and he did 440 @ 220, and JM is one of the best bench pressers on the planet
in fact, he was the first man to bench press 300 kilo in europe, he did it in Austria
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the goal for maximum muscle gains is to completely destroy every fast-twich muscle fiber you can
after a couple years of training like that the only time your ever going to make any progress is when you up the dose.
STIMULATE, DONT ANNIHILATE
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after a couple years of training like that the only time your ever going to make any progress is when you up the dose.
STIMULATE, DONT ANNIHILATE
15 years and still making gains, nice gains, my dose has been the same for 4 years, so throw your theory down the toilet.
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a year ago i was using 315 for sets of 8 on bench and barbell row, curling the 80lb dumbells for sets of 6, doing military press behind the neck with 275... today im doing bench with 135-185, pulldowns with 100lbs, tricep extensions with 25 lb dumbells... and my muscles are bigger and shapelier than ever.. of course.. as they grow bigger ill be bale to use more weight.. but what matters for bodybuilding, at least juiced bodybuilding, at least for me, is proper technique.. very very slow negatives on every single rep.. forceful but controlled positives on every rep, and a hard tight squeeze at peak contraction on every single rep.. when you lift that way, focusing on working the muscle rather than lifting the weight.. especially with the slow negative _im talking at least 5 second on the negative) and a hard squeeze at peak contraction.. you can only use a very light weight and you will fatigue very quickly.. i do not train to fialure either.. iand i do moderate to low volume..... STIMULATE, dont annihilate - lee haney..
My chest and arms are finally growing again exactly because of this. I could bench 250 lbs for a solid 4 sets of 10, but I was just getting the weight up. Now I dropped theweight to the point where I can do 4 sets of 10 using only my chest. (ofc other muscles are involved but the key is minimizing how much they are involved.
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this thread is retarded, I don't know one competetive bodybuilder that eats this little. my girlfriend is 120 pounds and eats 1500 cal a day. I dieted for a show and im a pure endo, on 300p/180c/50-60f which is over 2000 cals. I did 60-70 minute cardio 6 days a week. to think that you wont lose muscle at 6-800 cal a day is insanity unless your literally obese and can tap into some stored energy.
onetimehard i saw you say you eat 5lbs of chicken breast to diet. thats good but its only 2500 cal, and protein is used less efficiently for energy so you can subtract 20-30%. its not like you were eating 5000 cal of chicken breast.
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also tbombs you are fat. that disqualifies you from giving out dieting advice especially if its based on personal opinion.
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this thread is retarded, I don't know one competetive bodybuilder that eats this little. my girlfriend is 120 pounds and eats 1500 cal a day. I dieted for a show and im a pure endo, on 300p/180c/50-60f which is over 2000 cals. I did 60-70 minute cardio 6 days a week. to think that you wont lose muscle at 6-800 cal a day is insanity unless your literally obese and can tap into some stored energy.
onetimehard i saw you say you eat 5lbs of chicken breast to diet. thats good but its only 2500 cal, and protein is used less efficiently for energy so you can subtract 20-30%. its not like you were eating 5000 cal of chicken breast.
well man, i went from 12% to 7.5% in only 2 weeks time on only 800 cals per day, and i lost only 1 pound of lean muscle tissue while losing 8 pounds of fat, and i was a lifetime natty at that point in time
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and evser is right bombz, you're not lean
even with your latest pics, i'd put you at a very wet 12%
if you would hit the condition that i've displayed here in these pics i put up (which is a legit sub-6) you'd most likely weigh about a buck 80
not trying to be a dick here man, just trying to give you a dose of reality
it's a real bitch going from 8-9% to sub-6 and you lose quite a bit of muscle volume in the process, at least i did :'( :'( :'(
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well man, i went from 12% to 7.5% in only 2 weeks time on only 800 cals per day, and i lost only 1 pound of lean muscle tissue while losing 8 pounds of fat, and i was a lifetime natty at that point in time
I guess i cant knock it without trying it. but man even at 2000 cal im literally starving all day i think i would die at 800
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I guess i cant knock it without trying it. but man even at 2000 cal im literally starving all day i think i would die at 800
it's not necessary to go that low man, i just wanted to try it out at that time
and yeah dude, i almost passed out at the gas station pumping some gas into my ride after about the 5th or 6th day into that insanity LOL
my whole point is that hard consistant and progressive training pwns the living shit out of "diet"
basically this hard training "super-charges" the body and allows a half-way shitty "diet" coz it covers a multitude of dieting "sins" ;)
if your diet is spot on and you don't train, or train in a shitty fashion then yeah you'll get results, and you'll get leaner, but you won't look damn near as good as you would have had your training been spot on
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this thread is retarded, I don't know one competetive bodybuilder that eats this little. my girlfriend is 120 pounds and eats 1500 cal a day. I dieted for a show and im a pure endo, on 300p/180c/50-60f which is over 2000 cals. I did 60-70 minute cardio 6 days a week. to think that you wont lose muscle at 6-800 cal a day is insanity unless your literally obese and can tap into some stored energy.
onetimehard i saw you say you eat 5lbs of chicken breast to diet. thats good but its only 2500 cal, and protein is used less efficiently for energy so you can subtract 20-30%. its not like you were eating 5000 cal of chicken breast.
This is precisely my point, eat unlimited amounts of protein cause at the end of the day it won't amount to much anyway and you will get shredded from the lack of carbs. ;)
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ah i see what your saying lol
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I guess i cant knock it without trying it. but man even at 2000 cal im literally starving all day i think i would die at 800
X2.
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X2.
i'm finally a legit "semi-dry" sub-8 now, and i did it by doing ZERO cardio and just eating "less"
i'm kinda shocked by this, coz i thought that cardio would be required to get this lean, but it's not
today i only had bout 800 cals, and i'll do the same thing tomorrow
and fuck it! i might as well go down to sub-6 now, but i just hope that my face doesn't get too hideously ugly in the process lol
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i'm finally a legit "semi-dry" sub-8 now, and i did it by doing ZERO cardio and just eating "less"
i'm kinda shocked by this, coz i thought that cardio would be required to get this lean, but it's not
today i only had bout 800 cals, and i'll do the same thing tomorrow
and fuck it! i might as well go down to sub-6 now, but i just hope that my face doesn't get too hideously ugly in the process lol
800 is low man. What is the diet?
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800 is low man. What is the diet?
2 meals as follows:
breakie: coffee with a bit of cream and sugar and a half of a ham and cheese sandwich
din-din: watered down powerade and 1 chicken sandwich or salami sandwich
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2 meals as follows:
breakie: coffee with a bit of cream and sugar and a half of a ham and cheese sandwich
din-din: watered down powerade and 1 chicken sandwich or salami sandwich
Damn I would starve to death on that how long you going to do it? That low will result in muscle loss.
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Damn I would starve to death on that how long you going to do it? That low will result in muscle loss.
i don't do it every single day dude, i do it roughly 2 or 3 days a week, on the other days i eat more normal ie roughly 2000 cals per day
and i seriously doubt that i'm losing muscle since some of my training loads are increasing, and none of my training loads are decreasing
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i don't do it every single day dude, i do it roughly 2 or 3 days a week, on the other days i eat more normal ie roughly 2000 cals per day
and i seriously doubt that i'm losing muscle since some of my training loads are increasing, and none of my training loads are decreasing
Do you train on the 800 cal days or is energy drained?
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Do you train on the 800 cal days or is energy drained?
i usually don't train, but if my wild horse recklessness is high then i do ;D
i've just upped the dose to 20 mg of sdrol per day and i also have upped the cals a bit more as it somehow seems that i'm primed to put on some muscle
it's kinda hard to explain this, but since i am quite lean now 7-8% and i've been this lean for 3 weeks or so, i can somehow sense that my body is ready to lay down some more muscle tissue
not sure if this makes sense...
it has something to do with this idea/theory that once one is pretty damn lean ie. sub-8 for awhile then it's the "prime time" to put on some muscle
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i usually don't train, but if my wild horse recklessness is high then i do ;D
i've just upped the dose to 20 mg of sdrol per day and i also have upped the cals a bit more as it somehow seems that i'm primed to put on some muscle
it's kinda hard to explain this, but since i am quite lean now 7-8% and i've been this lean for 3 weeks or so, i can somehow sense that my body is ready to lay down some more muscle tissue
not sure if this makes sense...
it has something to do with this idea/theory that once one is pretty damn lean ie. sub-8 for awhile then it's the "prime time" to put on some muscle
Keep a eye on the waist it tells the real deal.
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i usually don't train, but if my wild horse recklessness is high then i do ;D
i've just upped the dose to 20 mg of sdrol per day and i also have upped the cals a bit more as it somehow seems that i'm primed to put on some muscle
it's kinda hard to explain this, but since i am quite lean now 7-8% and i've been this lean for 3 weeks or so, i can somehow sense that my body is ready to lay down some more muscle tissue
not sure if this makes sense...
it has something to do with this idea/theory that once one is pretty damn lean ie. sub-8 for awhile then it's the "prime time" to put on some muscle
I feel the same way. I have been real lean for a few months think im around 10% and I just feel the pumps in the gym are harder, more intense, last longer, and my strength still goes up, and my veins burst out so much more they seem to have expanded perhaps due to lower bf? But yes lean mass seems to come on much easier prolly due to what gh15 mentioned in how the body is more sensitive to using androgens for muscles if u have lower fat. Dk how it works tho.
I feel more energetic and eat only when I get hungry. Only on 20 mg of superdrol. A lean 189-190 lbs.
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I feel the same way. I have been real lean for a few months think im around 10% and I just feel the pumps in the gym are harder, more intense, last longer, and my strength still goes up, and my veins burst out so much more they seem to have expanded perhaps due to lower bf? But yes lean mass seems to come on much easier prolly due to what gh15 mentioned in how the body is more sensitive to using androgens for muscles if u have lower fat. Dk how it works tho.
I feel more energetic and eat only when I get hungry. Only on 20 mg of superdrol. A lean 189-190 lbs.
how tall are you? and what about your frame size?
the veins show more partially because you are leaner and therefore your skin is thinner