Nightmare scenario for the IFBB

[Chick]

Vince you are forgettin how much Money$$$$$$$$$$$$ these guys make look at even your Oz show 10k for 1st place and wait for it 1k for 5th now that is some serious cash right there.Makes all the Drug use and abuse worth it.IQ of most Pros= single digit.

Here's a newsflash for you....no one ever got in bodybuilding for the money.

[Meltdown]

Thank God for that can you imagine how Fukin disappointed they would be.

[Meltdown]

Any news Howie on that IFBB Drug testing program.

[TechnoViking]

I know guys who buy shit off Rando and pay him with monopoly money and then dance all over his braille books...


Howie the world is a cold place brother...Freezing actually! That is one of the reason's dancing is so popular....

It keeps you warm....Your blind friend should quit bodybuilding and hit the streets....Dancing is the future Howie...Your holding on to this natural bodybuilding shit way to tight...Let it go and let your mind go...Look to the mushroom, he is your friend...The streets are the only answer...You can not defeat the rich jews at there own game...You must hit the streets and go underground....You are leading this blind man down the wrong path....It is surely a path of destruction...And why the fuck do you have the words Syntex Anadrol 50 brailled to the head of your cock?...What does that mean Howie?

[dearth]

Bob,

Wayne,Ben et always refered to the IOC, WADA standards when they
spoke about the supposed drug testing protcol in the IFBB.

the IFBB adopting these protocols (on paper) did not adopt these protocols for the hell of it, as you suggest.

Ben life long dream was for the IFBB to be in the olympics, and this was one steps taken towards that dream.


there are many other subjective sports that the outcome is based on opinion.
Drug usage in the IFBB is as blatant as you get, to think the "Drugs really wasn't the issue" is somewhat naive.

You don't know what you're talking about....again, if BB was accepted, they would have been under IOC testing, just like every other Olympic sport...whether or not the IFBB's testing was up to par, was irrelevant to the IOC testing.

Judging and interest level was soley responsibl..nothing else.

[Chick]

Bob,

Wayne,Ben et always refered to the IOC, WADA standards when they
spoke about the supposed drug testing protcol in the IFBB.

the IFBB adopting these protocols (on paper) did not adopt these protocols for the hell of it, as you suggest.

Ben life long dream was for the IFBB to be in the olympics, and this was one steps taken towards that dream.


there are many other subjective sports that the outcome is based on opinion.
Drug usage in the IFBB is as blatant as you get, to think the "Drugs really wasn't the issue" is somewhat naive.

Ben doing what he felt he needed to do to get Olympic regognition, has nothing to do with the fact that it can't be judged on anything BUT opinion....and there are NO other sports that are based on such..even gymnastics and ice skating have required elements that can be judged, the rest being subjective with reguards to style, performance, etc...and those are the two sports they (the IOC) ahve the most problems and controvery with (no surprise there)....

I never said they adopted them "for the hell of it"...you did.

At the end of the day, BB was not getting into the Olympics for the reasons I specified....not the drug issue. I've already pointed out....*IF* BB did get accepted, they would have been under the same testing as every other sport in the Olympics...

That said, what you're implying makes no sense, and is irrelevant to the discussion.

[dearth]

Ben doing what he felt need to get olympic regonition had everything to do with the fact that steroid use in bodybuilding was so blatant, that even being considered for IOC testing would have been a joke. At least now Ben can say / did say that there is testing at the amateur level (which is hardly credible)

this idea of yours that the IOC doesn't like juding based on opinion only when it comes to bodybuilding is sort of beleivable
You talk of required elements that can be judged in ice skating and gymnastics.
last time I checked there are "required elements" for judging criteria in bodybuilding as well. Just check the rule book.

The real issue for the IOC (which happens to be the topic of this thread) was/is the blatant illegal steroid use in the IFBB.
Why would thte IOC even consider a "sport" whose governing body does nothing but reward the biggest most blatant drug users?

Simple logic. drugs > judging based on opinion

Ben doing what he felt he needed to do to get Olympic regognition, has nothing to do with the fact that it can't be judged on anything BUT opinion....and there are NO other sports that are based on such..even gymnastics and ice skating have required elements that can be judged, the rest being subjective with reguards to style, performance, etc...and those are the two sports they (the IOC) ahve the most problems and controvery with (no surprise there)....

I never said they adopted them "for the hell of it"...you did.

At the end of the day, BB was not getting into the Olympics for the reasons I specified....not the drug issue. I've already pointed out....*IF* BB did get accepted, they would have been under the same testing as every other sport in the Olympics...

That said, what you're implying makes no sense, and is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Chick]

Ben doing what he felt need to get olympic regonition had everything to do with the fact that steroid use in bodybuilding was so blatant, that even being considered for IOC testing would have been a joke. At least now Ben can say / did say that there is testing at the amateur level (which is hardly credible)

this idea of yours that the IOC doesn't like juding based on opinion only when it comes to bodybuilding is sort of beleivable
You talk of required elements that can be judged in ice skating and gymnastics.
last time I checked there are "required elements" for judging criteria in bodybuilding as well. Just check the rule book.

The real issue for the IOC (which happens to be the topic of this thread) was/is the blatant illegal steroid use in the IFBB.
Why would thte IOC even consider a "sport" whose governing body does nothing but reward the biggest most blatant drug users?

Simple logic. drugs > judging based on opinion

The "mandatories" in BB are hardy comparable to "required elements/ moves" in gymnastics or ice skating....athletic moves is what separates what were talking about. Any pro can hit a front double biceps, merely striking the pose does not constitute a athletic move, it's what it looks like thatmakes up the competition...and that is based on OPINION and nothing more.....it's the difference between the short program in womens fitness and the quarter turns in figure...etc, etc.

The ONLY requirement in pro BB, is that you actually DO the pose....

[Meltdown]

So Chick what I am reading here from you, I draw the conclusion that the IFBB Judging leaves a lot be desired ESP that the Fukin Sport can't be a part of the Olympics because it's all based on OPINION.hMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMM.Sounds Fuked up sort of like that Benign IFBB Drug Rule.Olympics was a pipe dream just like big prize money in BB.

[dearth]

simply performing a figure skating  "required elements/moves" is all that is required to gain points?
well what happens when all competitors can perform the "required elements/moves" ?

that is where they are judged on the actual execution of these moves, based on observation/opinion, just like bodybuilding.

There is written criteria for the subjective judgement in figure skating, but again that also exists for bodybuilding.

The "mandatories" in BB are hardy comparable to "required elements/ moves" in gymnastics or ice skating....athletic moves is what separates what were talking about. Any pro can hit a front double biceps, merely striking the pose does not constitute a athletic move, it's what it looks like thatmakes up the competition...and that is based on OPINION and nothing more.....it's the difference between the short program in womens fitness and the quarter turns in figure...etc, etc.

The ONLY requirement in pro BB, is that you actually DO the pose....

[The_Punisher]

I feel sorry for this Blind Pro, if he could see, he would have realize the IFBB is completely "Natural and Clean" ....ahahahahah

[Chick]

simply performing a figure skating  "required elements/moves" is all that is required to gain points?
well what happens when all competitors can perform the "required elements/moves" ?

that is where they are judged on the actual execution of these moves, based on observation/opinion, just like bodybuilding.

There is written criteria for the subjective judgement in figure skating, but again that also exists for bodybuilding.

In effect, yes....skating is broken down into two categories for judging...required elements and artistic portion. Required elements is just that...a triple toe, line work, triple axel, combo, etc....IF one of these is NOT done, you get points deducted.

Then there is the "artistic presentation"....the style that went into it, was it performed cleanly? the arrangement of coreography, music selection, etc....

Not too strangly....THAT is where all the controversy comes from...as OPINIONS varry a great deal...JUST LIKE IN PRO BB.

I'm not suire I can explain it anymore simply....there cant be any required elements in BB, as it's a "presentation" judged entirely on opinion from the judges.....THATS WHY IT'S NOT IN THE OLYMPICS.

[dearth]

bob,

clearly you can rationalize all you would like, but the bottom line is figure skating is an opinion based sport, JUST LIKE BODYBUILDING!!

but figure skating and other olympic sports do not turn a blind eye to obvious illegal steriod use. THE IFBB DOES!

that is why bodybuilding is not in the olympics, not this scripted theory of yours which makes the IFBB/bodybuilding sound like the "victim".

In effect, yes....skating is broken down into two categories for judging...required elements and artistic portion. Required elements is just that...a triple toe, line work, triple axel, combo, etc....IF one of these is NOT done, you get points deducted.

Then there is the "artistic presentation"....the style that went into it, was it performed cleanly? the arrangement of coreography, music selection, etc....

Not too strangly....THAT is where all the controversy comes from...as OPINIONS varry a great deal...JUST LIKE IN PRO BB.

I'm not suire I can explain it anymore simply....there cant be any required elements in BB, as it's a "presentation" judged entirely on opinion from the judges.....THATS WHY IT'S NOT IN THE OLYMPICS.

[Meltdown]

Chick is saying what milos has been saying for years the IFBB Judges can't judge it's just and interpretation of their opinion.Hence will never be an Olympic sport.

[Chick]

bob,

clearly you can rationalize all you would like, but the bottom line is figure skating is an opinion based sport, JUST LIKE BODYBUILDING!!

but figure skating and other olympic sports do not turn a blind eye to obvious illegal steriod use. THE IFBB DOES!

that is why bodybuilding is not in the olympics, not this scripted theory of yours which makes the IFBB/bodybuilding sound like the "victim".

A triple axel is either completed, or it's not....where's the opinion? same goes for every other "required" element. It's either followed up by a triple toe or it's not...where's the opinion?

[tom joad]

A triple axel is either completed, or it's not....where's the opinion? same goes for every other "required" element. It's either followed up by a triple toe or it's not...where's the opinion?

i'm no figure skating expert, but not every completed "triple axel" is the same, and thus I doubt that they're all scored the same.

[onlyme]

A triple axel is either completed, or it's not....where's the opinion? same goes for every other "required" element. It's either followed up by a triple toe or it's not...where's the opinion?

I don't think triples are required.  Ice skating takes extreme skill, balance, endurance, timing, and choreography  Ice skaters are judged on how well (technical) they do the routine they have choosen.  Certain elements have higher ratings.  If the skater does a very difficult moves perfect thier scores are higher.  If they fuck up the lose more.  The easier the moves the less points it is worth but it is safer.  That is why not everyone goes out and does a triple.  It is harder and they have more to lose if they miss it.  The judging for ice skating is very difficult and technical.  Far from how a BB contest is judged which is 100% in the eyes of the judges.  Hope this helps. 

[Chick]

i'm no figure skating expert, but not every completed "triple axel" is the same, and thus I doubt that they're all scored the same.

If you go back and read my posts, I've already pointed out that the judging in ice skating and gymnastics are in two parts...technical program, and artistic...the artistic is where the "opinion" based judging comes into play....

Keith is right about the degree of difficulty, and the performers have a set program the submit before they take the ice...if they miss a move, or fall, or fail to complete a move, they get scored down....NONE of this can apply to BB.

[HTexan]

Keith is right about the degree of difficulty, and the performers have a set program the submit before they take the ice...if they miss a move, or fall, or fail to complete a move, they get scored down....NONE of this can apply to BB.

why not? it would stop BBers from doing dumb shit.

[chaos]

why not? it would stop BBers from doing dumb shit.

Like this?

[dearth]

the opinion is in how determining how well it was executed compared to another competitor.

the IOC even considering accepting a steroid abusing sports organization without a legitimate testing program already in place
is laughable Bob.

i this sounds bad for an IFBB official to even acknowledge but,

steroids use is the reason the IFBB is a laughing stock of a sport in the eyes of the IOC.

A triple axel is either completed, or it's not....where's the opinion? same goes for every other "required" element. It's either followed up by a triple toe or it's not...where's the opinion?

[oldtimer1]

Maybe the bottom line is that the Olympic committee and people in general accept gymnastics/skating as an athletic competition.  Is oiled up men posing in their underwear an athletic competition or a drug fueled beauty pageant?  I know the sport takes place in the gym.

I love training and bodybuilding in general but the public at large see it as a subculture of an activity. ESPN won't even show it but it will have billiard contests.   I would think the vast majority of readers of muscle magazines are insecure teenagers and guys in their early twenties.  I'm sure the surveys by the magazine owners would contradict this.  I also think the fan base is being siphoned off by young men going toward MMA.  I think the fan base has similar traits.

No one involved with making money from bodybuilding would like to see real drug testing taking place.  The sport would cease to exist. How would the top ten stars really look without pharmaceutical assistance?  No one would pay to see a 5'10" 200lbs bodybuilders.  The hardcore fan wants and expects a 5'10" 270lbs. freak of a chemist experiment. 

[Meltdown]

IFBB are one of the very few federations that encourage the Use and Abuse of Drugs just look how many Pros have been tested in the last 5 years.It's a Fukin JOKE.Even their Rep says the Drug Rule in the IFBB is just there for the image of doing the right thing.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm m.FFS

[Vince B]

The professional bodybuilders do not have an athletes rep. There is no election and thus no accountability. What the IFBB have appointed is an apologist for them. In other words, they have a stooge and pasty who has a job much like a sheepdog who herds up strays and makes the rest fear even thinking about doing that.

Read how this inept person tries to damage bodybuilding instead of philosophically supporting it. He doesn't have the vocabulary or depth to represent anyone.

[Chick]

The professional bodybuilders do not have an athletes rep. There is no election and thus no accountability. What the IFBB have appointed is an apologist for them. In other words, they have a stooge and pasty who has a job much like a sheepdog who herds up strays and makes the rest fear even thinking about doing that.

Read how this inept person tries to damage bodybuilding instead of philosophically supporting it. He doesn't have the vocabulary or depth to represent anyone.

You've already been exposed for what you are, Basile...an old blowhard. STFU on talking about what I do for the athletes, or what kind of job I'm doing...you don't know either....you aren't privvy to ONE single thing involving pro bodybuilding past 1970....

Keep posting your nonsense, though....I enjoy you making your bold statements, while having the same knowledge of the subject as anyone with a computer handy...

LOL