Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: TroubleReady39 on November 13, 2007, 06:16:26 AM
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Listening to the Manion interview on Pro Bodybuilding Radio. When they asked him about why loyalty is so important to the IFBB, Manion said that its like if you leave your wife for a year, talk trash about her, and go sleep with other women. Can you really expect your wife to take you back a year later if you want to come home? This dont sound too good for Priest.
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Remarks like that just show how much the ifbb is more like a cult than an actual "sports organization" ::)
Keep bodybuilding in the closet! They're doing a good job of it... ::)
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Wow... I thought Manion was smarter than that..
So what about Sami.. His woman (the PDI) died so can he come to the IFBB for some love??
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Remarks like that just show how much the ifbb is more like a cult than an actual "sports organization" ::)
Exactly. My question for Manion was, "In any other sport, when your suspension is over you get to play again, without having to grovel or kiss up or anything... what makes bodybuilding different?"
I'm begining to think that musclemissions.com whack-job isn't too far off about the IFBB being a cult.
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TEN OTHER WAYS THE IFBB IS JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE
1. You shell out money every year for "membership" and get nothing in return.
2. You often think how much happier you'd be without them.
3. They nag you a lot over stupid, insignificant things.
4. If they catch you even looking at another organization, you're in deep doo-doo.
5. They ask you for your opinion and then punish you for expressing it.
6. If you don't kiss their ass every second of the day, they make your life miserable.
7. They'd rather you f*ck a grapefruit or swing your dick in a guy's face than kiss another girl.
8. They make up the rules as they go along.
9. They only forgive you for cheating if you buy them $50,000 in jewelry.
10. They refuse to let you f*ck them in their ass.
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worst gratuitous pic ever.
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"Disloyalty to the IFBB is Like Cheating on your Wife"
Ah, so two-thirds of the people are doing it. ;)
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At the IFBB meeting, Lee's reinstatement was rejected. Bob petitioned for him & lost.
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This guy REALLY needs to rethink his priorities, What a Jackass.
I wonder what Betty Weider would think of this Idiot
X
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Listening to the Manion interview on Pro Bodybuilding Radio. When they asked him about why loyalty is so important to the IFBB, Manion said that its like if you leave your wife for a year, talk trash about her, and go sleep with other women. Can you really expect your wife to take you back a year later if you want to come home? This dont sound too good for Priest.
Manion has his head up his butt, these guys have no obligation to the IFBB unless they are under contract, but most of these guys are self-contracted and should be able to go where.....*cough cough*....the money is!
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Manion has his head up his butt, these guys have no obligation to the IFBB unless they are under contract, but most of these guys are self-contracted and should be able to go where.....*cough cough*....the money is!
Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.
BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.
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Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.
BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.
...Bob, no disrespect, but those kind of contracts were made void by the Emancipation Declaration.
Slavery is illegal in all civilized countries, and NO court would enforce such a contract.
The Luke
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...Bob, no disrespect, but those kind of contracts were made void by the Emancipation Declaration.
Slavery is illegal in all civilized countries, and NO court would enforce such a contract.
The Luke
You're wrong. That's a basic non-compete clause and is found in many types of employment and IC contracts. Courts readily enforce them.
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Sorry, no compete clauses are when you are PAID to be under contract.
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You're wrong. That's a basic non-compete clause and is found in many types of employment and IC contracts. Courts readily enforce them.
For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract. "The possibility that you might make some money" doesn't count. In a real employment contract, the employee is being paid, thus consideration is present.
If Manion wants to start paying these guys a salary, no one in the world would have a problem with an exclusivity clause. But to demand exclusivity without payment is tantamount to slavery.
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The IFBB must be a slut wife then. ::)
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But to demand exclusivity without payment is tantamount to slavery.
I dont agree. Nobody is forced to sign an IFBB contract. It is a completely optional choice. You either sign, or you don't. The choice is there for each athlete to decide. Nobody is forced to sign on with the IFBB. Its up to each person to weigh the pros and cons. For example: If Ron Avidon wanted to establish a rule that if anyone posts on MuscleMayhem, they wil be banned from Getbig. There is no stopping Ron from doing that. As long as he discloses the rule upon registration, he is free to create any rules he chooses. And, along the same lines, we are all free to choose not to register here.
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I dont agree. Nobody is forced to sign an IFBB contract. It is a completely optional choice. You either sign, or you don't. The choice is there for each athlete to decide. Nobody is forced to sign on with the IFBB. Its up to each person to weigh the pros and cons. For example: If Ron Avidon wanted to establish a rule that if anyone posts on MuscleMayhem, they wil be banned from Getbig. There is no stopping Ron from doing that. As long as he discloses the rule upon registration, he is free to create any rules he chooses. And, along the same lines, we are all free to choose not to register here.
Well said...exactly what I was going to respond.
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I dont agree. Nobody is forced to sign an IFBB contract. It is a completely optional choice. You either sign, or you don't. The choice is there for each athlete to decide. Nobody is forced to sign on with the IFBB. Its up to each person to weigh the pros and cons. For example: If Ron Avidon wanted to establish a rule that if anyone posts on MuscleMayhem, they wil be banned from Getbig. There is no stopping Ron from doing that. As long as he discloses the rule upon registration, he is free to create any rules he chooses. And, along the same lines, we are all free to choose not to register here.
The contract is for 1 year so each year you have to renew the contract, if Lee would wait till his contract expired than go to PDI? would be no problem.
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We have had this analogy many times over. If you belong to one fraternity in college, and you go to another one, and while you are there, talk crap about your old fraternity, and then later on you decide you want to come back, you will find it very hard to do so.
As for the IFBB, each individual decides if he wants to compete there or not. As long as they are in good standing with the organization. They choose to compete, they don't have to.
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We have had this analogy many times over. If you belong to one fraternity in college, and you go to another one, and while you are there, talk crap about your old fraternity, and then later on you decide you want to come back, you will find it very hard to do so.
As for the IFBB, each individual decides if he wants to compete there or not. As long as they are in good standing with the organization. They choose to compete, they don't have to.
I agree completely with this, Ron.
What I disagree with is this - why would they tell him they'll suspend him for one year, but he has to quit the PDI, but *THEN* tell him it's a lifetime ban?
If they would have just said "Lee, you are never coming back to the IFBB", that would have been fine. Instead, they gave him a 1-year ban on the condition he leave Wayne DeMilia, which he certainly then did.
It looks to me like they screwed him over - getting him to diss PDI live, then growing the suspension from 1 year, to forever.
They misled him.
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To cheat on your wife is to break God’s law.
Neither shalt thou commit adultery. - Deuteronomy 5:18 (KJV)
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BTW..."the money" IS in for the IFBB.
Proposal 5
A proposal from Bob Cicherillo that athletes be required to have a written contract, signed and approved, no later than 8 weeks prior to the date of the competition.
Proposal Adopted With Modification
[Modification: Athletes will be required to have a written contract postmarked no later than 6 weeks prior to the date of the competition. Contracts received after the due date will be subject to a US $500 late fee to the promoter.]
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Proposal 8
A proposal from Bob Cicherillo that all IFBB Pro League cards will be renewed by annually by January 1st. Any card renewed after this deadline, and before February 1st, will have an additional US $100 fee attached. Renewals received after February 28th will be doubled, based on the original cost.
Proposal Adopted With Modification
[Modification: All IFBB Pro League cards will be renewed (postmarked) annually by January 15th. Any card renewed after this date will cost the athlete US $400.]
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I dont agree. Nobody is forced to sign an IFBB contract. It is a completely optional choice. You either sign, or you don't. The choice is there for each athlete to decide. Nobody is forced to sign on with the IFBB. Its up to each person to weigh the pros and cons. For example: If Ron Avidon wanted to establish a rule that if anyone posts on MuscleMayhem, they wil be banned from Getbig. There is no stopping Ron from doing that. As long as he discloses the rule upon registration, he is free to create any rules he chooses. And, along the same lines, we are all free to choose not to register here.
What is the stated mission of the IFBB?
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Another pointless analogy. Perhaps there was a 'divorce' (ie. contract expired) and then it's not cheating. :)
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This isn't cheating on your wife...nor is it a fraternity. Let's call it what it really is. A thin-skinned supposedly professional sports body. Is this Scientology or the IFBB?
But if we want to stay with the 'cheating on your wife' angle. Ok.. Let's also add that the wife was a nutjob that took 99% of your paycheck....and made you drive the K-car while she drove around town in the BMW that she paid for out of your wages.. The bitch ate steak while you had to go beg for crumbs from old rich dudes.
Fraternity? Give me a break. Terrible analogy..
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...Bob, no disrespect, but those kind of contracts were made void by the Emancipation Declaration.
Slavery is illegal in all civilized countries, and NO court would enforce such a contract.
The Luke
The Emancipation Declaration? LOL WUT?
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For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract.
Exactly.
That's why it's so laughable when the guys around here start shouting "Lee signed the contract, Lee signed the contract!"
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Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.
BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.
Commandment #1 (there are 10): "I am the Lord thy God; ye shall have no others gods besides me."
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...by signing the "contract"
can this "contract" be seen somewhere? Just curious... thanks
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If you belong to one fraternity in college, and you go to another one, and while you are there, talk crap about your old fraternity, and then later on you decide you want to come back, you will find it very hard to do so.
Ron, are reminiscing about the "Good Ole Fraternity Days" :)
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For example: If Ron Avidon wanted to establish a rule that if anyone posts on MuscleMayhem, they wil be banned from Getbig. There is no stopping Ron from doing that. As long as he discloses the rule upon registration, he is free to create any rules he chooses. And, along the same lines, we are all free to choose not to register here.
There's a big difference. None of us here is making our living by posting on internet boards, and Getbig is not running a monopoly on professional internet board posting.
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There's a big difference. None of us here is making our living by posting on internet boards, and Getbig is not running a monopoly on professional internet board posting.
Thats actually not true. Shawnn Ray gets paid to be a professional message board poster. He even signed an exclusive message board contract ;D
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Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.
BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.
Could you possibly be any more of a Weider-whore?
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Could you possibly be any more of a Weider-whore?
One has nothing to do with the other.....
It is what it is...no one is forced into it, and by and large, there have been many who have benefitted greatly and been able to make a living from pro BB...all by way of being a member in the IFBB. In case you havent noticed...there have been many other federations around for many years, none of which have ever offered anything remotely close to the opportunities the IFBB has.
I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.
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TEN OTHER WAYS THE IFBB IS JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE
1. You shell out money every year for "membership" and get nothing in return.
2. You often think how much happier you'd be without them.
3. They nag you a lot over stupid, insignificant things.
4. If they catch you even looking at another organization, you're in deep doo-doo.
5. They ask you for your opinion and then punish you for expressing it.
6. If you don't kiss their ass every second of the day, they make your life miserable.
7. They'd rather you f*ck a grapefruit or swing your dick in a guy's face than kiss another girl.
8. They make up the rules as they go along.
9. They only forgive you for cheating if you buy them $50,000 in jewelry.
10. They refuse to let you f*ck them in their ass.
I got this as your best list to date :)
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I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.
How is fining them and imposing late penalties making it more profitable and fair to the athletes? Explain that, suit.
You guys need a players association, like REAL sports have.
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I admire Manion and his tough stance!
Priest is professionally dead and buried.
Thank Christ we have heard the last of his snivelling and bitching about the IFBB.
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Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.
BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.
I missed the part in the rule book where it says that this is the main rule, can you point out where it is said?????
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A contract is a contract. If you sign it you've gotta abide by it. HOWEVER - The IFBB needs the athletes, so the athletes COULD exercise power by acting together to get things changed. They sacrifice a hell of a lot to try and earn a crust, they should be allowed to earn money wherever they can, particularly when they are being screwed out of prize money by politics. Up to them to come together and create a force to be reckoned with !!!
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For Christ sake, this debate has been 'done to death'! Get over it!
Manion is a cunning business man. You do not cross him! Priest tried, and his career ended in a heart-beat!
Thank Christ the IFBB has the likes of Manion. And yes, thank Christ he put Priest on the bodybuilding 'scrap heap'!
Not hating, just my opinion.
Peace.
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For Christ sake, this debate has been 'done to death'! Get over it!
Manion is a cunning business man. You do not cross him! Priest tried, and his career ended in a heart-beat!
Thank Christ the IFBB has the likes of Manion. And yes, thank Christ he put Priest on the bodybuilding 'scrap heap'!
Not hating, just my opinion.
Peace.
yOU ARE HATING ! I'm smelling jealousy.
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For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract. "The possibility that you might make some money" doesn't count. In a real employment contract, the employee is being paid, thus consideration is present.
If Manion wants to start paying these guys a salary, no one in the world would have a problem with an exclusivity clause. But to demand exclusivity without payment is tantamount to slavery.
Good point here....
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in other international cultures having more than 1 wife is perfectly legal
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For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract. "The possibility that you might make some money" doesn't count. In a real employment contract, the employee is being paid, thus consideration is present.
If Manion wants to start paying these guys a salary, no one in the world would have a problem with an exclusivity clause. But to demand exclusivity without payment is tantamount to slavery.
Ok Justice Brennan ::) Hahahahaha...internet lawyers. Consideration can take many forms. Money need not be involved. Courts have held that consideration can be the oppotunity to make money, which is exactly what the IFBB is giving these guys.
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How is fining them and imposing late penalties making it more profitable and fair to the athletes? Explain that, suit.
You guys need a players association, like REAL sports have.
It makes it run like a professional organization, which it hasen't been.
It makes the athletes responsible and accountable.
It makes it possible for the promoters to have access to a list of athletes that commit to their show, and PROMOTE...which in turn, will help put more MONEY in the athletes pockets...
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Bodybuilding is like wrestling..no union
and if you don't like things...there are 5 more ppl waiting for your spot!
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TEN OTHER WAYS THE IFBB IS JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE
1. You shell out money every year for "membership" and get nothing in return.
2. You often think how much happier you'd be without them.
3. They nag you a lot over stupid, insignificant things.
4. If they catch you even looking at another organization, you're in deep doo-doo.
5. They ask you for your opinion and then punish you for expressing it.
6. If you don't kiss their ass every second of the day, they make your life miserable.
7. They'd rather you f*ck a grapefruit or swing your dick in a guy's face than kiss another girl.
8. They make up the rules as they go along.
9. They only forgive you for cheating if you buy them $50,000 in jewelry.
10. They refuse to let you f*ck them in their ass.
The top three...which pretty much sums it up.
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It makes it run like a professional organization, which it hasen't been.
It makes the athletes responsible and accountable.
It makes it possible for the promoters to have access to a list of athletes that commit to their show, and PROMOTE...which in turn, will help put more MONEY in the athletes pockets...
Valid points, suit. I still think you guys would benefit from a "players association".
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Of course we would....but the plaers werent interested in having one.
BTW...I'm not a "suit".
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I admire Manion and his tough stance!
Most of us do! He's a good man.
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Actually, you're wrong...by signing the "contract" which allows you to be a IFBB pro, you agree to oblige the rules set forth...the main one, that you cannot compete in any other federation.
BTW..."the money" IS in the IFBB.
It also says you cant be convicted of any crimes! Several Pros, Titus and Vic still competed.
IFBB was created to Protect bodybuilders not fuck them
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what if you do everything your wife has requestedand sacrificed everything for her and she goes and sleeps with the guy that treated her like shit and sacrificed nothing?
ie jay winning the olympia over wolf.
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We have had this analogy many times over. If you belong to one fraternity in college, and you go to another one, and while you are there, talk crap about your old fraternity, and then later on you decide you want to come back, you will find it very hard to do so.
As for the IFBB, each individual decides if he wants to compete there or not. As long as they are in good standing with the organization. They choose to compete, they don't have to.
This isnt a Frat, its a Org (supposed to be non-profit) that was created to protect bodybuilders. The same Org is fucking them over time and time again. And the powers that be keep making ignorant ass decisions and when someone steps up and calls them on it they get flamed. Its complete Bullshit.
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One has nothing to do with the other.....
It is what it is...no one is forced into it, and by and large, there have been many who have benefitted greatly and been able to make a living from pro BB...all by way of being a member in the IFBB. In case you havent noticed...there have been many other federations around for many years, none of which have ever offered anything remotely close to the opportunities the IFBB has.
I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.
"nobody is forced into it" WTF else are they gonna do? Not like there is any other legit options. Either Compete as a IFBB BBr or retire?? Thats fuckin bullshit... Guys like Ronnie, Jay etc... they survive off of Supplement contracts, the prize money they make off the shows doesnt even cover their taxes.
What has the IFBB offered??? Weider and Arnold's show would keep going on if the IFBB closed doors tomorrow. Not like the IFBB created those shows, outside promoters wanna do a show, and they HAVE to go to the IFBB to get athletes to compete, IFBB gets 5,000 for a sanction fee for Male BB, Female BB, Fitness, Figure, 20k in total and then the show goes on. Its like a middle man collecting money and making the rules... Bullshit
So manion OWNS the NPC and hes speaking on behalf of the IFBB. Thats like David Stern owning the NCAA College basketball and still being head of the NBA. Nobody else thinks this is a complete Fuck job?
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For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract. "The possibility that you might make some money" doesn't count. In a real employment contract, the employee is being paid, thus consideration is present.
If Manion wants to start paying these guys a salary, no one in the world would have a problem with an exclusivity clause. But to demand exclusivity without payment is tantamount to slavery.
Not true. I work in a comission-only position and there's a non-compete standard in my industry.
Still, it's not like cheating on your wife unless she stays at home, spends most of your money and never gives you any ass. In that case, I'm looking elsewhere....
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What I disagree with is this - why would they tell him they'll suspend him for one year, but he has to quit the PDI, but *THEN* tell him it's a lifetime ban?
Where did you read it is a lifetime ban? All I read is that he wasnt reinstated. There are a lot of other factors involved, but it has been rehashed on it.
Let's also add that the wife was a nutjob that took 99% of your paycheck....and made you drive the K-car while she drove around town in the BMW that she paid for out of your wages..
So don't stay with her. Simple as that.
Ron, are reminiscing about the "Good Ole Fraternity Days"
Ah, not really. But still, if you were in a group, and found out that an ex-member said all sorts of crap about you, and then wanted to come back, what would you do?
This isnt a Frat, its a Org (supposed to be non-profit) that was created to protect bodybuilders.
Ok. I thought it was meant to have a place where bodybuilder who choose to compete there can, and with that priveledge, get prize money, recognition, which in turns leads to magazine shoots, guest posings, supplement contracts, and other types of contracts. Things don't just happen, you need to push to get these contracts.
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Listening to the Manion interview on Pro Bodybuilding Radio. When they asked him about why loyalty is so important to the IFBB, Manion said that its like if you leave your wife for a year, talk trash about her, and go sleep with other women. Can you really expect your wife to take you back a year later if you want to come home? This dont sound too good for Priest.
Sounds reasonable to me. You can't expect to just talk shit about every business and be welcomed back again. It's unprofessional, plain and simple.
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One has nothing to do with the other.....
It is what it is...no one is forced into it, and by and large, there have been many who have benefitted greatly and been able to make a living from pro BB...all by way of being a member in the IFBB. In case you havent noticed...there have been many other federations around for many years, none of which have ever offered anything remotely close to the opportunities the IFBB has.
I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.
Bob,
Your position is one of massaging the hand that is feeding the bodybuilders. I know you are trying to do good, but the IFBB is not government, it is not instituted to serve the athletes. It is a private corporation motivated by profit.
Things will not change until bodybuilders start voting with their careers. A unity on principles would create much positive change. However, although bodybuilders may be some of the most disciplined people, they are also some of the most unprincipled.
Drugs
Endorsing Garbage supplements
Gay 4 Pay
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Chick you're so quick to defend the IFBB all the time and hellbent on getting the members to follow the rules why don't you get the IFBB to follow the rules they make up....They can start by reading the rulebook they made. If you like I can point out many they don't follow. We don't ever hear you talking about those.
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BTW...I'm not a "suit".
Yeah.... you're the suits' puppet!
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Chick you're so quick to defend the IFBB all the time and hellbent on getting the members to follow the rules why don't you get the IFBB to follow the rules they make up....They can start by reading the rulebook they made. If you like I can point out many they don't follow. We don't ever hear you talking about those.
I do...try reading some of the past proposals I've sunmitted.
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Chick you're so quick to defend the IFBB all the time and hellbent on getting the members to follow the rules why don't you get the IFBB to follow the rules they make up....They can start by reading the rulebook they made. If you like I can point out many they don't follow. We don't ever hear you talking about those.
word. Not to mention the IFBB lets certain people break certain rules, but if Lee goes and competes for a rival federation he get suspended for a year ::)
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word. Not to mention the IFBB lets certain people break certain rules, but if Lee goes and competes for a rival federation he get suspended for a year ::)
A year? Didn't you hear...his year's up, yet they still won't let him compete. ::)
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A year? Didn't you hear...his year's up, yet they still won't let him compete. ::)
yeah, he waited his year then they made him reply for 'reinstatement' which he did, then they rejected. IFBB is a facist empire of bodybuilding.
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word. Not to mention the IFBB lets certain people break certain rules, but if Lee goes and competes for a rival federation he get suspended for a year ::)
Lee was treated as everyone else was that crossed to another federation...nothing more, nothing less.
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Except for Goatboy and a few others who actually have working brains, I would say the majority here would be fodder for IFBB antics. We do get what we deserve, afterall. Eg., an appointed stooge as 'athletes' rep. Of course, 'athletes' aren't drug tested.
Chick's argument about prize money is a bit like claiming that you have to buy a lottery ticket to win. Talk eloquently but do bugger all for the bodybuilders. Who here is proud to be a bodybuilder today?
Lee Priest made his own bed and now he has to live with it. He did it to make some money from beating people who weren't in his league "PDI".
At least Chick did petition for his reinstatement. Its better than nothing and quite frankly he was the only person who did do anything for him and Lee gave him the middle finger
Point being...if you think that the IFBB is a dictatorship then go compete somewhere else. No-one is putting a gun to these people's heads to compete and there are other organization. Hell, I'm competing in my first NGA event early next year.
As Shawn Ray once said "Thanks for the memories, little man" is all Lee Priest is going to get for his efforts. Life will go and has on without him.
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Lee was treated as everyone else was that crossed to another federation...nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, he broke a rule and got punished. Im not complaining about that, he knew the rules. But what about all the people who break the rules such as no criminal convictions, gay 4 pay, steroids ::) etc. The IFBB knows many people who break each of those rules, yet dont do anything.
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yeah, he waited his year then they made him reply for 'reinstatement' which he did, then they rejected.
During that time, Lee had quite a few chances to come back to the IFBB, which didn't go through. I videotaped him about his sincerity of him coming back to the IFBB, which he said he did, but then said it wasnt true. Steve Blechman offered him a deal, and the IFBB was cool with it, for him to come back into the IFBB come September 2007, but Lee didn't agree. So yes, while he was suspended for a year, there were other factors. Once again, Lee may or may not be reinstated into the IFBB, but it didnt happen at the Olympia meeting. The next meeting, I think is at the Arnold?
But there were others too, Rodney St. Cloub, I think also Valentine Jabes, one or two others. Lee is the most popular who chose to leave, but certainly not the only one. If the IFBB acts differently on these guys, then it is a different issue. But for now, all have been treated the same.
Yes, he broke a rule and got punished. Im not complaining about that, he knew the rules. But what about all the people who break the rules such as no criminal convictions, gay 4 pay, steroids etc. The IFBB knows many people who break each of those rules, yet dont do anything.
Yes, let's all be all holy here, and cry for every little rule that has been broken. Convictions, steroids - whoa. Wow. If it was up to you, half of Congress would be out of office, half of the NFL, NBA, NHL would be out of players. Get real. These guys don't have convictions for assault, or a violent crime.
But the ones who chose to compete in another federation while they were still members of the IFBB knew and were warned in advance about it. You do this, you will get that. Simple as that. If I tell you and warn you in advance that if you choose the left path, you can't come back to the other path, you know in advance. Simple as that.
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For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration (i.e. money)... it's an essential element of a contract.
"consideration (i.e. money)". . . what did they teach you in the hallowed halls, goatboy? money can be consideration, but . . .
consideration can be many things . . . basically you give up something you have a right to do. like compete in the PDI. And they give up something they have a right to do . . . like not letting you compete in their contests.
makes sense that the other contract law guru, "Tre," would agree w you. ;D
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Lee was treated as everyone else was that crossed to another federation...nothing more, nothing less.
::)
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"consideration (i.e. money)". . . what did they teach you in the hallowed halls, goatboy? money can be consideration, but . . .
consideration can be many things . . . basically you give up something you have a right to do. like compete in the PDI. And they give up something they have a right to do . . . like not letting you compete in their contests.
makes sense that the other contract law guru, "Tre," would agree w you. ;D
Be threatened by a dozen lawsuits and you'd arm yourself with information, too!
At the end of the day, though, which side of the argument do you feel would have the brighter, more convincing attorneys?
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I do...try reading some of the past proposals I've sunmitted.
chick, this is the closest you've come to admitting that IFBB isn't quite perfect.
my hat is off to you.
re: the IFBB metting minutes that you posted,
what is so hard with actually providing a written guidline for womens bodybuilding, that is update,
which outlines what the judges are looking for?
"the winner of the olympia contest should be the guidline" is a very lame cop out to this legitmate request by Betty Pariso.
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Be threatened by a dozen lawsuits and you'd arm yourself with information, too!
At the end of the day, though, which side of the argument do you feel would have the brighter, more convincing attorneys?
i haven't read the whole thread, but Lee has no case from what snatches I've heard.
the IFBB didn't make him a promise of reinstatement that he relied on prior to suffering quantifiable damages.
no lawyer worth a damn is going to touch that . . .
someone could argue anti-trust, but come on, this is the ifbb we're talking about . . .
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"consideration (i.e. money)". . . what did they teach you in the hallowed halls, goatboy? money can be consideration, but . . .
consideration can be many things . . . basically you give up something you have a right to do. like compete in the PDI. And they give up something they have a right to do . . . like not letting you compete in their contests.
makes sense that the other contract law guru, "Tre," would agree w you. ;D
I never said I was a lawyer or a "guru", but I think it would be difficult to argue that competing in a contest where you're unlikely to break even can be considered "valuable consideration", as it has little market value.
A case was already decided against the NPC back in the 80's in Federal court prohibiting them from penalizing amateur athletes for competing in other federations (which kills Ron's "fraternety" or "private club" analogy). It isn't exactly a leap of logic to see how this could be argued in the IFBB, given that these guys are NOT being paid a salary, and most lose money. It's tough to call unpaid athletes "professionals", especially when they are independant contractors in no one's employ.
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I never said I was a lawyer or a "guru", but I think it would be difficult to argue that competing in a contest where you're unlikely to break even can be considered "valuable consideration", as it has little market value.
for a court to find "consideration" (which is really not the basis for getting contracts thrown out these days, anyway), it doesn't have to be valuable.
they might consider if the two sides were giving up something of roughly equal value. these days this part is rarely grounds for finding no contract . . . if it ever was.
cts are not going to tell parties how or when to contract.
the definition of "professional" has no bearing on contracts . . . the Uniform Commercial Code cares about merchants, but the UCC applies only to the sale of goods.
someone could make out an antitrust case against the IFBB . . . maybe. but i doubt lee or the PDI has the resources to pay $600+/hr. most antitrust lawyers do not work on a contingency basis . . .
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I never said I was a lawyer or a "guru", but I think it would be difficult to argue that competing in a contest where you're unlikely to break even can be considered "valuable consideration", as it has little market value.
A case was already decided against the NPC back in the 80's in Federal court prohibiting them from penalizing amateur athletes for competing in other federations (which kills Ron's "fraternety" or "private club" analogy). It isn't exactly a leap of logic to see how this could be argued in the IFBB, given that these guys are NOT being paid a salary, and most lose money. It's tough to call unpaid athletes "professionals", especially when they are independant contractors in no one's employ.
Whats valuable to one may not be to another....for many, the opportunity and the doors that open as an IFBB pro ARE valuable, and they take advantage of it by way of placing in the money, signing contracts, exposure, etc....
When you COMPETE for money, you are considered a professional in the IFBB, wheyer or not an athlete actually MAKES money is irrelevant to the discussion at hand....
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.....
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is the regular standing professional bodybuilder making money?
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is the regular standing professional bodybuilder making money?
as opposed to the one's that are sitting?
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Whats valuable to one may not be to another....for many, the opportunity and the doors that open as an IFBB pro ARE valuable, and they take advantage of it by way of placing in the money, signing contracts, exposure, etc....
I agree.
One bodybuilder that comes to mind (who's name I won't disclose), told me that he became an IFBB Pro to comete in and win a certain show to attain that show's title for THE SOLE PURPOSE OF USING THAT TITLE TO MARKET HIMSELF "OUTSIDE" OF COMPETITION!
After he won the show he stopped competing and has marketed that title very well and is now a Multi-Millionaire!
So the IFBB does in fact provide opportunities. However, if you are "competing" to make money and relying soley on that as your income, you've got a serious problem. IMO
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One bodybuilder that comes to mind (who's name I won't disclose), told me that he became an IFBB Pro to comete in and win a certain show to attain that show's title for THE SOLE PURPOSE OF USING THAT TITLE TO MARKET HIMSELF "OUTSIDE" OF COMPETITION!
Which title? The Bodybuilding.com Master's World Championship? ;D
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Lee Priest made his own bed and now he has to live with it. He did it to make some money from beating people who weren't in his league "PDI".
At least Chick did petition for his reinstatement. Its better than nothing and quite frankly he was the only person who did do anything for him and Lee gave him the middle finger
Point being...if you think that the IFBB is a dictatorship then go compete somewhere else. No-one is putting a gun to these people's heads to compete and there are other organization. Hell, I'm competing in my first NGA event early next year.
As Shawn Ray once said "Thanks for the memories, little man" is all Lee Priest is going to get for his efforts. Life will go and has on without him.
Vince,
Derek A. spit in your face twice.
You didn't do anything.
You're the biggest punk in the history of the world.
good night.
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Vince,
Derek A. spit in your face twice.
You didn't do anything.
Like maybe get an AIDS test immediately.
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The IFBB is a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mindboggling that a non-profit org would financially penalize others for trying to make a living.
Just blows the mind.
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The IFBB is a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mindboggling that a non-profit org would financially penalize others for trying to make a living.
Just blows the mind.
Hey... I wonder if the American Red Cross blackballs their volunteers for disloyalty if they occasionally volunteer at the Salvation Army as well? :D
I think the IRS should look into their "non-profit" status.
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Which title? The Bodybuilding.com Master's World Championship? ;D
No. It wasnt that big of a show ;)
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Manion is in control! It is he who pulls the levers in this so-called sport!
Jim is well aware that the majority of these Pros are 'dumb-as-dogshit-Neanderthals' ; and he treats them as that....and why shouldn't he?
Letting these so-called athletes voice an opinion is dangerous.
Thank Christ Manion rules the organisation with an iron fist!
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I think Manion used a great analogy !
A wife that gives shit about her husband, when he is sick or dying - a wife that just leaves him alone, when he desperately needs her support. What a perfect marriage this is !
But - I nearly forgot - no one forced this man to marry his wife. Now, as he became aware of her true character, he can still look for different one ::)
Also he knew and signed the marriage contract and it didn't include support during illness, it just said s.th. about love, dedication and commitment (required from his side).
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What's the difference between the IFBB and your wife you are playing up on? The IFBB still sucks!
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. . .
someone could make out an antitrust case against the IFBB . . . maybe. but i doubt lee or the PDI has the resources to pay $600+/hr. most antitrust lawyers do not work on a contingency basis . . .
Good luck with the anti-trust case. Remember how successful the USFL was against the NFL?
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During that time, Lee had quite a few chances to come back to the IFBB, which didn't go through. I videotaped him about his sincerity of him coming back to the IFBB, which he said he did, but then said it wasnt true. Steve Blechman offered him a deal, and the IFBB was cool with it, for him to come back into the IFBB come September 2007, but Lee didn't agree. So yes, while he was suspended for a year, there were other factors. Once again, Lee may or may not be reinstated into the IFBB, but it didnt happen at the Olympia meeting. The next meeting, I think is at the Arnold?
But there were others too, Rodney St. Cloub, I think also Valentine Jabes, one or two others. Lee is the most popular who chose to leave, but certainly not the only one. If the IFBB acts differently on these guys, then it is a different issue. But for now, all have been treated the same.
Yes, let's all be all holy here, and cry for every little rule that has been broken. Convictions, steroids - whoa. Wow. If it was up to you, half of Congress would be out of office, half of the NFL, NBA, NHL would be out of players. Get real. These guys don't have convictions for assault, or a violent crime.
But the ones who chose to compete in another federation while they were still members of the IFBB knew and were warned in advance about it. You do this, you will get that. Simple as that. If I tell you and warn you in advance that if you choose the left path, you can't come back to the other path, you know in advance. Simple as that.
Moral relativism. so easy for the masses.
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Manion was a lawyer, I believe. If he was, then anti-trust was a subject that he was probably not very hot on. Must have been playing hooky or working out in the gym during anti-trust classes!
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No-one is putting a gun to these people's heads to compete and there are other organization. Hell, I'm competing in my first NGA event early next year.
LOL Vince dont even try to remotely compare yourself to these guys.
Please do yourself and all of us a favour and DONT compete!
P.S. Are you still benching 315 for reps? ::)
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I HAVE A QUESTION FOR BOB CHICK ; ARE U ATHLETES REP OR IFBB SPOKESMAN. U DO REALIZE THAT ALL U DO ( ALMOST ) ALL DAY IS DEFEND IFBB AND IT'S PRACTICES ? AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED U FEED A LOT OF BULLSHIT BUT I GUESS THAT'S WHAT U GOTTA DO TO FEED YOUR FAMILY . WTF HAPPENED TO INTEGRITY AND LOYALTY ?...DIDN'T U USE TO BE A COMPETITOR AS WELL ?...YOU MANAGE TO BE POLITICALY CORRECT VIS A VIS IFBB AND U KNOW THAT BEING IN THEIR GOOD GRACES ASSURES U A SOFT BLAKIE AND APILLOW AND A BOWL BUT FOR FUCKS SAKE BOB : "YOUR " ATHLETES GET FUCKED UP THE ARSE AND ALL U DO ALL DAY IS DEFEND IFBB. IT'S PRETTY SAD IF U ASK ME.
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as opposed to the one's that are sitting?
lol you know what i mean RMC lol
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Listening to the Manion interview on Pro Bodybuilding Radio. When they asked him about why loyalty is so important to the IFBB, Manion said that its like if you leave your wife for a year, talk trash about her, and go sleep with other women. Can you really expect your wife to take you back a year later if you want to come home? This dont sound too good for Priest.
LMAO like cheating on your wife, The IFBB is screwing the majority of the top pros over if they all stood together and Bob chick really did his job they could get things changed...Im glad at least one BB made the move even if he is in trouble with the IFBB hes made more money with PDI than he would have with the IFBB more than likely
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I think the IRS should look into their "non-profit" status.
The IRS cannot really do anything especially since its based out of Canada and is throughout the world.
In addition, its like cutting off a branch on a big tree.
My point is this. Its the IFBB's swimming pool and its up to a competitor as to whether they want to jump in or not.
I do however wish that they would enforce a better code of professionalism. Having sex with a grapefruit for money should warrant at least an suspension or something.
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The IRS cannot really do anything especially since its based out of Canada and is throughout the world.
They can shut down US operations. Dummy.
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They can shut down US operations. Dummy.
Please see my branches off a tree comment. And even if they shut down US operations, they would simply open shop under another name.
In all honesty, it will never happen
He who has the money wields the power
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I HAVE A QUESTION FOR BOB CHICK ; ARE U ATHLETES REP OR IFBB SPOKESMAN. U DO REALIZE THAT ALL U DO ( ALMOST ) ALL DAY IS DEFEND IFBB AND IT'S PRACTICES ? AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED U FEED A LOT OF BULLSHIT BUT I GUESS THAT'S WHAT U GOTTA DO TO FEED YOUR FAMILY . WTF HAPPENED TO INTEGRITY AND LOYALTY ?...DIDN'T U USE TO BE A COMPETITOR AS WELL ?...YOU MANAGE TO BE POLITICALY CORRECT VIS A VIS IFBB AND U KNOW THAT BEING IN THEIR GOOD GRACES ASSURES U A SOFT BLAKIE AND APILLOW AND A BOWL BUT FOR FUCKS SAKE BOB : "YOUR " ATHLETES GET FUCKED UP THE ARSE AND ALL U DO ALL DAY IS DEFEND IFBB. IT'S PRETTY SAD IF U ASK ME.
What are you talking about?
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Please see my branches off a tree comment. And even if they shut down US operations, they would simply open shop under another name.
In all honesty, it will never happen
He who has the money wields the power
Oh, the IFBB would just open up shop next year with a new name and dodge all the IRS fire it got? You're so stupid it's hilarious. My only solace for the irritation you've caused is that you'll spend your life as an ignorant, poor liar while most of the rest of us will see success.
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What are you talking about?
exactly :-[
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Manion and Chang are trying to clean up this organisation! They dealt swiftly in ending the career of the 'filthy-mouthed-munchkin'; and must be applauded for this...Who is next on their list?
We need strong and decisive leadership! The industry will continue to hemorrhage without likes of Manion and Chang. Yes, men who are willing to 'stand strong' on those Pros who are 'hell bent' on bad-mouthing this so-called sport!
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I think a motion should be put forth by the pros that Bob suposedly represents that he step down due to "conflict of interest"
Ps. And beleive me...most IFBB pro judges know a thing or two about cheating on your wife.
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Chick, I am not going to mindlessly bash you like a lot of the other guys on here...I like you and think u are good for bodybuilding...I also like your physique and admire your prowess at promoting yourself and making money unlike a lot of the other BB'ers...But Bob, I think you should not be the athlete's rep because you are too intertwined with the powers that be...you say BB'ers don't have to sign up to join the IFBB but for all intents and purposes, the IFBB is a monopoly...the BB'ers have no choice but to sign up if they want to have ANY hope of making money...because of your high profile and because you are one of the few who can make a very nice living from bodybuilding, you have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are...the IFBB wants these guys to be members yet they are basically treated as freelancers...does the IFBB deduct taxes, social security,workmans comp, etc, from their prizewinnings?...Lee Priest is a self-promoter (just like you are) but I think he has the right to compete in any organization he wants to...just as you should have the same right...you use the example of Ron being able to set forth rules and ban members if they don't adhere to the rules, but GetBig is not a monopoly...banned members can go to other boards and post there...the IFBB won't let bodybuilders do that since they are the only game in town and they know it...you still haven't said why BB'ers competing with other organizations is a bad thing...there simply isn't enough contests or prize money to go around to the BB'ers so that they can make a good living...just give us three good reasons as to why IFBB membership is so vital for BB'ers?..how does it benefit the bodybuilders?...some guys joke on here that the IFBB is a cult...obedience or else...they kinda have a point.
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Also I wonder if the IFBB could withstand their practices being exposed to congress?...
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Also I wonder if the IFBB could withstand their practices being exposed to congress?...
Well said. Manion is getting a lesson in anti-trust laws that he missed out in law school playing hooky or going to the gym during classes.
The Attorney General should also take a closer look into dismantling the IFBB's monopoly for the good of all pro bodybuilders.
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Well said. Manion is getting a lesson in anti-trust laws that he missed out in law school playing hooky or going to the gym during classes.
The Attorney General should also take a closer look into dismantling the IFBB's monopoly for the good of all pro bodybuilders.
Not gonna happen. Use your time doing something that might go somewhere. Maybe take up needle point.
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Oh yeah? They've dismantled monopolies much bigger than IFBB, like AT&T for instance.
Some people have asked me why a monopoly is so bad. Here's Economics 101.
Simple, a monopoly is widely recognized as a fraud on the consumer (pros in the case of IFBB) and is considered anathema to a free market economy.
In a monopoly, prices are ALWAYS higher and service is ALWAYS poorer and the consumer is always the victim. The moment a monopoly is dismantled and free competition is allowed, prices ALWAYS fall and service ALWAYS improves.
That explains why the USA has anti-trust laws and the EU has "Anti-competition" laws. To prevent a monopoly from ever rising!
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The IFBB is a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mindboggling that a non-profit org would financially penalize others for trying to make a living.
Just blows the mind.
Exactly. I can't believe people are even arguing this..... :-\
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Manion alluded to this in the PBW interview. The AAU was dismantled for monopolistic practices and the complainant was the IFBB. LOL.
Ironical isn't it. The complainant on the monopolistic practices of the AAU is now doing exactly the same!
So those of you who think it can't happen, think again. All it takes is a letter of complaint to the Attorney General from an IFBB Pro who feels aggrieved (Lee Priest perhaps) and a file is opened.
Uncle Bill Gates found out that his monopolistic dreams were not so water-tight after all, and promptly dropped them, after spending a small fortune fighting the anti-trust action by the AG.
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THE AMATUER ATHLETIC UNION OF THE UNITED STATE, INC., JAMES LOWE, LEE BURNS AND JERRY BURNS,
PLAINTIFFS
VS.
THE NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITEE OF THE U.S.A., INC., THE SOUTHESATERN ASSOCIATION OF THE NATIONAL PYSIQUES COMMITTEE FO THE U.S.A., INC., THE SOUTHEASTERN PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE, THE TENNESSEE BOARD OF ADVISORS OF THE SOUTHEASTERN PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE, MIKE KIZER AND JAMES MANION
DEFENDANTS
CIVIL ACTION NO. 1-82-83
STIPUATION AND ORDER
IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between the undersigned attorneys for the parties that,
WHEREAS, the plaintiffs have commenced this action against the defendants charging the defendants with violations of various federal anti-trust statues, and
WHEREAS, the defendants have counter-claimed against the plaintiffs charging the plaintiffs with violations of various anti-trust statues and seeking relief on other grounds, and
WHEREAS, the Court entered and signed its order and preliminary injunction of June 3, 1982,
NOW, THEREFORE, it is agree as follows:
1. The defendants, including the National Physique Committee of the U.S.A., Inc., The Southeastern Association of the National Physique Committee of the U.S.A, Inc., The Southeastern Physique Committee, the Tennessee Board of Advisors of the Southeastern Physique Committee, Mike Kizer and James Manion agree to continue their state policy of not imposing any sanctions upon or otherwise penalizing or punishing or threatening to impose any sanctions upon (or otherwise penalizing or interfering in any way with any persons on account of that persons' participation in any physique contest sanctioned by the Amateur Athletic Union of the United States, Inc., ("The AAU"),) whether such person participates as an athlete, a promoter, a sponsor, or otherwise and will not condone, ratify, facilitate or permit such actions by any member or affiliate of the NPC for so long as the defendants (other than the NPC) remain as members or affiliates of the NPC. The defendants will take all steps reasonably necessary to remedy any violation of their stated policy as set forth above, which violation comes to their attention.
2. Defendants further agree to email a copy of this stipulation and order to the NPC's Board of Governors and an officer of the NPC shall certify that such mailing has been accomplished within (30) days of this stipulation and order.
3. The AAU agrees to maintain its stated policy of not enforcing Section 454.10(a) of its 1982 Official code.
4. All claims for relief contained in the complaint and answer and counter-claim are withdrawn with prejudice and without cost to any party against another.
5. The preliminary injunction previously entered and signed on June 3, 1982, is hereby dissolved and the bond posted by the plaintiffs in connection with that order and the preliminary injunction is hereby exonerated.
6. This stipulation shall not be deemed an adjudication of liability against or an admission of liability by any party.
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Manion alluded to this in the PBW interview. The AAU was dismantled for monopolistic practices and the complainant was the IFBB. LOL.
Ironical isn't it. The complainant on the monopolistic practices of the AAU is now doing exactly the same!
So those of you who think it can't happen, think again. All it takes is a letter of complaint to the Attorney General from an IFBB Pro who feels aggrieved (Lee Priest perhaps) and a file is opened.
Uncle Bill Gates found out that his monopolistic dreams were not so water-tight after all, and promptly dropped them, after spending a small fortune fighting the anti-trust action by the AG.
...and to think, all it takes is a pair of testicles. someone with the balls to call the fuckers out.
over to you lee.
have you got a pair or are you just piss and wind?
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All the IFBB Pros who've been blackballed/screwed by the IFBB should get together to file a joint complaint with the Attorney General's Office.
There're no legal costs involved as this is not a class action suit, just a complaint to the AG. If the AG takes up the case, it is the AG who will file the court action against the IFBB to dismantle its monopolistic practices and perhaps even require the IFBB to pay compensation to the aggrieved parties such as the IFBB Pros who'd been blackballed/screwed by the IFBB and even Wayne de Melia's PDI (if the PDI initiates the filing or joins the complaint)
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Have sent an email to Wayne deMelia to alert him and apprise him of his rights in this matter. The PDI has consistently been blackballed by the IFBB and should be an interested party in this issue.
I'm sure we're not hearing the last of this. The AG should be getting an interesting letter soon.
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How many of you say that Wayne deMelia of PDI would be filing a complaint against the monopolistic practices of the IFBB to the Attorney General?
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One has nothing to do with the other.....
It is what it is...no one is forced into it, and by and large, there have been many who have benefitted greatly and been able to make a living from pro BB...all by way of being a member in the IFBB. In case you havent noticed...there have been many other federations around for many years, none of which have ever offered anything remotely close to the opportunities the IFBB has.
I do all I can to make it more profitable and fair to the athletes....while I am pleased with the progress that's been made, I'm still working on behalf of the athletes to make it even better.
Bob- could you define "many" for us please?
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How many of you say that Wayne deMelia of PDI would be filing a complaint against the monopolistic practices of the IFBB to the Attorney General?
demilla was in pretty bad shape recently. don't know if he wants to get into another battle with the ifbb which, in turn, might just kill any prospect of doing business with them or associates (anything and everything to do with making money from bbing). vince mcmahon backed away very quickly when he realized how much power the ifbb had (don't think bbing contests, think billion dollar supplement industry, influence on members of parliament and how quickly your business will disintegrate if you fuck with that.
if demilla is truly is finished with the industry, he should take them on. the guy was head honcho there for a long time and he could be a very real pain in the ass if he so desired.
however, i don't think it's in his nature. he didn't get as far as he did with the org by treading on toes. demilla is a company man like Chick. the ONLY reason he decided to go alone is because he thought everyone would go with him and stay with him. i have no idea what's wrong with him health wise, but that right there makes me think he has a brain tumor.
bbers are about as fickle and non commital as it gets. by nature they are into appearances only. there is no actual substance to go along with their piss and wind (see priest, sarcev, mohammed, tamali, ray, titus, that black spanish guy milos had - name escapes me right now, etc etc etc) and as soon as pressure gets applied it dawns reeeeeal quick what matters most...themselves. ;)
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Wayne Demilia was just as corrupt and power hungry as the Weiders ever were.
Remember, this is the guy who oversaw the bans/fines against the former WBF'ers when they attempted to return to the IFBB... that whole scenario was shameful.
The Luke
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Wayne Demilia was just as corrupt and power hungry as the Weiders ever were.
Remember, this is the guy who oversaw the bans/fines against the former WBF'ers when they attempted to return to the IFBB... that whole scenario was shameful.
The Luke
precisely
despite paying fines of up to $30 grand (circa 1992?) NONE of them were competitive again. their careers just died after that.
manion is no different to demilla.
again, they don't get to that position by by being fair minded.
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Aaron Baker anyone... dude was blackballed so badly that he basically had to beat everyone by a significant margin just to make the top three.
I was absolutely horrified to read that returning WBF'ers had been "allowed" to pay their exorbitant fines from their winnings... giving them the option of competing for no recompense; or placing in the money only to find they actually had competed for free... that's as near to slavery as makes no distance.
The IFBB is beyond redeeming.
The Luke
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Iv thought the same thing! Bob Chick defends the IFBB and Manion more than he does the Athletes. As the athletes "REP" you should be going to WAR with the IFBB to get Lee to be able to compete on stage. Not having nice friendly conversations with Manion!!
Bob you are a disgrace to the "athletes rep position" and your conversations with Manion and the letters you send are night and day. Why dont you tell us all about the conversations you have where Manion Trashes lee on the phone with you and u stick to Manion's side, but then send a letter to make it look like you are doing your best to help him?
Do us all a favor and resign from your position, you are doing nothing to pt the Athletes in a better position.
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Iv thought the same thing! Bob Chick defends the IFBB and Manion more than he does the Athletes. As the athletes "REP" you should be going to WAR with the IFBB to get Lee to be able to compete on stage. Not having nice friendly conversations with Manion!!
Bob you are a disgrace to the "athletes rep position" and your conversations with Manion and the letters you send are night and day. Why dont you tell us all about the conversations you have where Manion Trashes lee on the phone with you and u stick to Manion's side, but then send a letter to make it look like you are doing your best to help him?
Do us all a favor and resign from your position, you are doing nothing to pt the Athletes in a better position.
I love you guys that make comments like you know what goes on...trust me....you don't.
In order to "go to war"...you need ammunition. Whats the basis of this war?
Lets see, I have a guy that knowingly broke the rule, left on his own despite knowing the consequences, bad mouthed the federation, etc, then was offered a deal to return (at his request) , and refused it....
I HAVE done my best to help him....it's HIMSELF that I cant save him from, not the federation.
As for "doing nothing to put the athletes in a better position"......I suggest you check out my record of submnitting proposals and success rate in getting them passed....ALL of the changes have benefitted the athletes, both men and women.
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demilla was in pretty bad shape recently. .... i have no idea what's wrong with him health wise, but that right there makes me think he has a brain tumor.
it's no secret that he has prostate cancer.
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it's no secret that he has prostate cancer.
thanks for the info. :D
maybe he has a brain tumor aswell ???
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Bodybuilders lost control in this sport long ago. A few that keep their freedom don't get far. That is how it goes. Play ball or you don't make it to home base.
What is particularly nauseating are the platitudes of stooges like Chick and Shawn who are part of the IFBB machine. Chick keeps his appointed position because he needs it to make himself sound important. His ethics evaporated long ago. For a so-called nice guy he really is something else.
Look at what happened to outspoken Lee and Milos. They got suspended. That is how the IFBB operates. They generate an atmosphere of fear so that everyone tows the line. It literally doesn't pay to speak out against injustices in this sport.
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Which title? The Bodybuilding.com Master's World Championship? ;D
He's talking about Stan McQuay problably. He's now a personal trainer for 50 cent and a number of other hip-hop artist.
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Bodybuilders lost control in this sport long ago. A few that keep their freedom don't get far. That is how it goes. Play ball or you don't make it to home base.
What is particularly nauseating are the platitudes of stooges like Chick and Shawn who are part of the IFBB machine. Chick keeps his appointed position because he needs it to make himself sound important. His ethics evaporated long ago. For a so-called nice guy he really is something else.
Look at what happened to outspoken Lee and Milos. They got suspended. That is how the IFBB operates. They generate an atmosphere of fear so that everyone tows the line. It literally doesn't pay to speak out against injustices in this sport.
Funny you should mention that, as neither one of them was suspended for being outspoken......clueless as usual. At least you're consistant....
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okay firstly for a professional organisation the IFBB isn't acting very professional or smart. Like him or not Lee Priest is popular and a draw card, people are going to want to see him and talk to him etc at shows, so the IFBB is missing another draw card athlete and in a fringe sport that's not always a good thing. In terms of professionalism Lee doesn't exactly embody this but neither does the IFBB on this matter, the decision reeks of a personal agenda hidden by 'rules', which as been pointed out aren't always followed to the letter by the IFBB anyway.
Also to all the bashing of Chick as the athletes rep i'd just like to ask how many of the posters in this forum are IFBB pros for which Chick is a rep? I'm guessing zero! So he really doesn't have to answer anything to you and in fact his loyalty on matters like this should be with the IFBB and not with the fans, if this was a debate purely involving IFBB pros and they were asking these questions, then yes i'd think he was a poor athletes rep if everything the athletes brought up was shot down by him with IFBB nonsense. I'm not saying this is what Chick does by the way cause i'm not an IFBB athlete so he's not my rep, therefore i have no way to say whether he is good or not, all i'm saying is he has no obligation to you 'fans' so stop trying to make it sound like he's screwing you.
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Funny you should mention that, as neither one of them was suspended for being outspoken...
Excellent point.
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Funny you should mention that, as neither one of them was suspended for being outspoken......clueless as usual. At least you're consistant....
well, technically you're incorrect there Chick.
Milos was suspended for being outspoken. the problem was, his 'outspoken' behaviour was breach of the rules of professional conduct of an ifbb member ie the ifbb was obligated to suspend him and, iti, it was a correct and fair decision.
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Chick is a sophist who tries to win every argument any way he can. What a stooge he is. He is the personifcation of being clueless. That is why he was appointed to his silly position. Sure the majority of bodybuilders are knuckleheads. That is why it is easy to control them. Who the ^%#%# do Manion and Chick think they are messing with the lives of bodybuilders? You hypocrites can go to hell. Test the sheep for drugs for Christsakes. Even that big hypocrite AS should be ashamed of what he allows in his contest. Clean us this sordid, unhealthy and extremely unprofessional sport.
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Chick is a sophist who tries to win every argument any way he can. What a stooge he is. He is the personifcation of being clueless. That is why he was appointed to his silly position. Sure the majority of bodybuilders are knuckleheads. That is why it is easy to control them. Who the ^%#%# do Manion and Chick think they are messing with the lives of bodybuilders? You hypocrites can go to hell. Test the sheep for drugs for Christsakes. Even that big hypocrite AS should be ashamed of what he allows in his contest. Clean us this sordid, unhealthy and extremely unprofessional sport.
STFU and go back to re-inventing things that have been around for 200 years....
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STFU and go back to re-inventing things that have been around for 200 years....
Robert Michael, don't let this man get to you. You are a good representative of this sport.
See you in Rochester,
"1"
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Robert Michael, don't let this man get to you. You are a good representative of this sport.
See you in Rochester,
"1"
LOL...Pleeeeeease. THis old fool cant get to anyone, least of all me....he has the distinct disadvantage of not knowing WTF he's talking about...
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STFU and go back to re-inventing things that have been around for 200 years....
Ha, ha. In classic Getbig vernacular.......Meltdow n!
Look, Bob, you should be pleased that there are people out there who can criticize what is happening. Otherwise, whatever purpose does your annointed position serve? The IFBB resembles a political party in power and it is definitely jobs for the boys. Nice to see your ass-kissing is appreciated by JM and RS. Seems to me you qualify with your BS.
I have been around bodybuilding for a long time. I have seen guys like you come and go. There is something about wearing one of those official blue blazers that transcends you meatheads into asskissers!!
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Ha, ha. In classic Getbig vernacular.......Meltdow n!
Look, Bob, you should be pleased that there are people out there who can criticize what is happening. Otherwise, whatever purpose does your annointed position serve? The IFBB resembles a political party in power and it is definitely jobs for the boys. Nice to see your ass-kissing is appreciated by JM and RS. Seems to me you qualify with your BS.
I have been around bodybuilding for a long time. I have seen guys like you come and go. There is something about wearing one of those official blue blazers that transcends you meatheads into asskissers!!
I am one of those people that criticizes whats happening, thats what I do, and what my position is...
Please explain what "ass kissing" I do....?
You've seen "guys like me" come and go, huh? Like who? Sorry to dissapoint you, but I aint going anywhere for quite a while...
BTW...I don't wear a Blue Blazer, nor am I an official. Wrong again...........
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cant believe were talking about this. if the pros do not want anything to change why are we complaining. the pros are supposedly making the money here not us.
bob is not the bad guy anything from it. he is trying to help these dumb ass pro bodybuilders but they do not want to be helped so why is everyone sweating him like he is the bad guy. :-\
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TEN OTHER WAYS THE IFBB IS JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE
1. You shell out money every year for "membership" and get nothing in return.
2. You often think how much happier you'd be without them.
3. They nag you a lot over stupid, insignificant things.
4. If they catch you even looking at another organization, you're in deep doo-doo.
5. They ask you for your opinion and then punish you for expressing it.
6. If you don't kiss their ass every second of the day, they make your life miserable.
7. They'd rather you f*ck a grapefruit or swing your dick in a guy's face than kiss another girl.
8. They make up the rules as they go along.
9. They only forgive you for cheating if you buy them $50,000 in jewelry.
10. They refuse to let you f*ck them in their ass.
I can deal with the first 9, but damn, I gotta get the booty hole from time to time :P :-*
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Hey, Bob, I am sure it would be fun debating with you in person. Too bad you have to try to score points online. When someone nails you on moral grounds you reply denying particulars. When you get nailed re particulars you escape with platitudes. 'Doing my best.' and other nonsense. You wear a blue blazer even if you don't notice it. Wake up to your sinful self. I suppose you feel you are important because literally no one else wants that appointed 'job'. We will see little change with you there. We will surely get more of the same from you great administators and assistants.
Hope this helps.
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Bob..doesn't it feel embarassing having people constantly bashing this muscle worshiping old perverts aka bob and joe and others and u defending them and the ifbb ?.... Let me ask u something : who voted u athletes rep ?.....shouldnt u represent their interests ?...you talk to Lee not as his rep but as an ifbb employee . It's mindboggling how people accuse u of being ifbb's little errand boy and u keep twistingg it and yapping about it and somehow u manage to show how : IFBB is right and THE ATHLETE is WRONG. :-\
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Hey, Bob, I am sure it would be fun debating with you in person. Too bad you have to try to score points online. When someone nails you on moral grounds you reply denying particulars. When you get nailed re particulars you escape with platitudes. 'Doing my best.' and other nonsense. You wear a blue blazer even if you don't notice it. Wake up to your sinful self. I suppose you feel you are important because literally no one else wants that appointed 'job'. We will see little change with you there. We will surely get more of the same from you great administators and assistants.
Hope this helps.
There is no debate with you...you cant formulate an intelligent enough counter to have a debate with.
Go back and review your own responses, notice how you never come up with anything to back your lame ass up....or anything in particular. Classic of an internet warrior who has no insight to reality....
Respond with more bullshit like your muscle missions buddy...and by all means, post another "front elbow" pic...It does show that for your age...you look much older.
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Bob..doesn't it feel embarassing having people constantly bashing this muscle worshiping old perverts aka bob and joe and others and u defending them and the ifbb ?.... Let me ask u something : who voted u athletes rep ?.....shouldnt u represent their interests ?...you talk to Lee not as his rep but as an ifbb employee . It's mindboggling how people accuse u of being ifbb's little errand boy and u keep twistingg it and yapping about it and somehow u manage to show how : IFBB is right and THE ATHLETE is WRONG. :-\
haha Sevatease started learning about BB in 2005
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Well, Bob, Jim Manion has taught you well. If you can't win an argument attack the person. If you can't do that then try to make fun of him. Eg., use things that are commonly disapproved of or feared such as fatness or old age.
There is little chance that anyone intelligent can have a civil argument with you. Do you have any notion about what a disciplined argument is? You know, the kind done in seminars in university graduate classes. I suppose, like so many others here, your idea of a seminar is giving information and letting others listen to you pontificate.
One thing is indisputable. You have been trained to always get the last word in. The wise man knows when to keep his mouth shut. Thank goodness little common sense is required for that annointed position of professional athletes rep. You should be ashamed of your performance on Getbig. You behave like a common thug and bully. You contaminate everything you touch in this sport.
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In this thread it appears that I have some vendetta against Bob. That is not at all what is going on. He, on the other hand, tries to embarrass and dismiss me any way he can. I am clueless, out of touch, old, and so on. Even my photos are suspect because I know how to make an arm look bigger. That is what posing is all about.
The question that is missed here is why does Bob resort to personal attacks against those who criticize him or the IFBB? Why should a public athletes representative of the IFBB be so foul-mouthed and nasty on line? That is surely not the way to make friends and influence people. Bob uses tried and true street tactics on the hapless critics of the IFBB. He uses any means he can to put them down and discredit their opinions.
I can support my use of the word 'stooge' when referring to Bob C. He is that and more. Maybe he is even the IFBB patsy!
The ironical thing is I am starting to sound like Hank Wood!
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In this thread it appears that I have some vendetta against Bob. That is not at all what is going on. He, on the other hand, tries to embarrass and dismiss me any way he can. I am clueless, out of touch, old, and so on. Even my photos are suspect because I know how to make an arm look bigger. That is what posing is all about.
The question that is missed here is why does Bob resort to personal attacks against those who criticize him or the IFBB? Why should a public athletes representative of the IFBB be so foul-mouthed and nasty on line? That is surely not the way to make friends and influence people. Bob uses tried and true street tactics on the hapless critics of the IFBB. He uses any means he can to put them down and discredit their opinions.
I can support my use of the word 'stooge' when referring to Bob C. He is that and more. Maybe he is even the IFBB patsy!
The ironical thing is I am starting to sound like Hank Wood!
is Hank Wood(UK Gold) a friend of yours?
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I don't know who Hank Wood is. He sounds like some missionary fanatic the way he attacks people's values and behaviour.
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Well, Bob, Jim Manion has taught you well. If you can't win an argument attack the person. If you can't do that then try to make fun of him. Eg., use things that are commonly disapproved of or feared such as fatness or old age.
If I cant win the argument? What argument?? All I see is unprovoked nonsense offered by your lame self...without any knowledge on the subject, or any evidence brought forward despite me asking you to on numerous occasions....I answer you "in kind", like I do everyone here....you act like an asshole, so you're treated like an asshole.....
There is little chance that anyone intelligent can have a civil argument with you. Do you have any notion about what a disciplined argument is? You know, the kind done in seminars in university graduate classes. I suppose, like so many others here, your idea of a seminar is giving information and letting others listen to you pontificate.
As stated above...by all means, show some proof of any sensicle counter point you've attempted to make. Apparently, it's YOU that doesn't know the meaning of what it is to have some idea of what you're talking about before making ridiculous statements based on heresay, assumptions, ans the internet for your sources of "inside info"...
One thing is indisputable. You have been trained to always get the last word in. The wise man knows when to keep his mouth shut. Thank goodness little common sense is required for that annointed position of professional athletes rep. You should be ashamed of your performance on Getbig. You behave like a common thug and bully. You contaminate everything you touch in this sport.
I get the last word in, because you cant offer up any counter to my responses...I answer with facts and expert opinion as someone who is involved in current decision making, rules, negotiations, etc.....and what were your qualifications again...? Oh yeah..you won the "Mr. Canada" back in 1902, and build overly complicated, needless equipment.
BTW...if you think you're some sort of "master poser" by not knowing how to properly hit a bicep shot...think again. You're just a old guy with small arms that's making an ass of himself on the internet....
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STFU and go back to re-inventing things that have been around for 200 years....
LMAO ;D
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You know, bodybuilders always amaze me. They complain about gyms and equipment but how many have actually come up with anything new or better? I give credit to guys like Joe Gold and Larry Scott who have advanced what gyms and good equipment are. Most of the designers of gym equipment are not bodybuilders nor have they any interest in making effective bodybuilding equipment. The exception was Arthur Jones who pioneered designs that have changed the industry forever. Just about everyone was influenced by Nautilus equipment. That being said, where is the Nautilus or Medx or Cybex biceps-supinator machine? Where is a chin machine that can support individuals up to 500 pounds?
Bob dismisses some of the designs that I originated but where is anything original from him? I doubt we will see any such thing. Ditto for 99.99 percent of those who post in internet discussion boards. So many are great at criticizing but few have anything original to contribute that is positive to the sport of bodybuilding.
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Bob dismisses some of the designs that I originated but where is anything original from him? I doubt we will see any such thing.[/color]
Bob invented sucking up and being a puppet.
Vince Basile invented everything else!
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You know, bodybuilders always amaze me. They complain about gyms and equipment but how many have actually come up with anything new or better? I give credit to guys like Joe Gold and Larry Scott who have advanced what gyms and good equipment are. Most of the designers of gym equipment are not bodybuilders nor have they any interest in making effective bodybuilding equipment. The exception was Arthur Jones who pioneered designs that have changed the industry forever. Just about everyone was influenced by Nautilus equipment. That being said, where is the Nautilus or Medx or Cybex biceps-supinator machine? Where is a chin machine that can support individuals up to 500 pounds?
Bob dismisses some of the designs that I originated but where is anything original from him? I doubt we will see any such thing. Ditto for 99.99 percent of those who post in internet discussion boards. So many are great at criticizing but few have anything original to contribute that is positive to the sport of bodybuilding.
Attaboy, Vince...way to prove me right.....again.
Nothing to say, nothing to back yourself up.
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Bob dismisses some of the designs that I originated but where is anything original from him? I doubt we will see any such thing. Ditto for 99.99 percent of those who post in internet discussion boards. So many are great at criticizing but few have anything original to contribute that is positive to the sport of bodybuilding.
You know Vince, I have never said anything to you, not even a "Fuck You", but today that will change.
First off, Robert and I went to the same High School and he is a much sweeter person in real life than most of these so-called "Pros".
Secondly, you have no clue what any of us truly do on these boards. Many of us here not only help to support the sport by attending the shows, but we also BUY supplements from the same companies that SPONSOR the Pros and Shows that we speak of on a daily basis. Some of us, like myself, have even taken time to write articles about the sport, taken pictures of many pros (That have been used by respectable sites) and even helped to get some of these Pros on their feet when shit was bad. So please don't assume that 99.99999999% of us do nothing for the sport...
With regards to Robert Michael, he is a voice & face for the sport of bodybuilding. Unlike 99.9% of these Pros, Bob actually has been in a few Hollywood films and is recognized amongst many elite groups. He is also well-spoken and looks pretty good for a man his age, something which 97% of the Pros can't say for themselves.
So with all due respect Vince, Fuck you and your fucking old-man grip strength.
"1"
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okay firstly for a professional organisation the IFBB isn't acting very professional or smart. Like him or not Lee Priest is popular and a draw card, people are going to want to see him and talk to him etc at shows, so the IFBB is missing another draw card athlete and in a fringe sport that's not always a good thing. In terms of professionalism Lee doesn't exactly embody this but neither does the IFBB on this matter, the decision reeks of a personal agenda hidden by 'rules', which as been pointed out aren't always followed to the letter by the IFBB anyway.
Also to all the bashing of Chick as the athletes rep i'd just like to ask how many of the posters in this forum are IFBB pros for which Chick is a rep? I'm guessing zero! So he really doesn't have to answer anything to you and in fact his loyalty on matters like this should be with the IFBB and not with the fans, if this was a debate purely involving IFBB pros and they were asking these questions, then yes i'd think he was a poor athletes rep if everything the athletes brought up was shot down by him with IFBB nonsense. I'm not saying this is what Chick does by the way cause i'm not an IFBB athlete so he's not my rep, therefore i have no way to say whether he is good or not, all i'm saying is he has no obligation to you 'fans' so stop trying to make it sound like he's screwing you.
Interesting post. Here I'll shoot down with a few words. NO FANS= NO BODYBUILDING, NO SPONSORSHIPS, NO CONTESTS, NO IFBB, NO JOB FOR CHIC. Lets see someone argue that fact.
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Funny you should mention that, as neither one of them was suspended for being outspoken......clueless as usual. At least you're consistant....
I missed it, did Milos compete in the PDI too. ::)
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Interesting post. Here I'll shoot down with a few words. NO FANS= NO BODYBUILDING, NO SPONSORSHIPS, NO CONTESTS, NO IFBB, NO JOB FOR CHIC. Lets see someone argue that fact.
I can argue that fact....90% of my income is from my BB.com contract...which has nothing to do with contests, or the IFBB for that matter.
The one "job" I have with the IFBB as the rep, is a non paying position...
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I missed it, did Milos compete in the PDI too. ::)
No one said he was....
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I can argue that fact....90% of my income is from my BB.com contract...which has nothing to do with contests, or the IFBB for that matter.
The one "job" I have with the IFBB as the rep, is a non paying position...
WHo buys the products from BB.com that affords them to stay in business and pay your salary. Just wondering.
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WHo buys the products from BB.com that affords them to stay in business and pay your salary. Just wondering.
People.....athletes, weightlifters, etc...
Less than 5% of our business is from competitive BBers...
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People.....athletes, weightlifters, etc...
Less than 5% of our business is from competitive BBers...
What % is from the average gym rat?
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No one said he was....
Robert, you better comment on my post defending you...
(http://www.smileygenerator.us/t/temp/PEOPLE1/angry.gif)
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TEN OTHER WAYS THE IFBB IS JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE
1. You shell out money every year for "membership" and get nothing in return.
2. You often think how much happier you'd be without them.
3. They nag you a lot over stupid, insignificant things.
4. If they catch you even looking at another organization, you're in deep doo-doo.
5. They ask you for your opinion and then punish you for expressing it.
6. If you don't kiss their ass every second of the day, they make your life miserable.
7. They'd rather you f*ck a grapefruit or swing your dick in a guy's face than kiss another girl.
8. They make up the rules as they go along.
9. They only forgive you for cheating if you buy them $50,000 in jewelry.
10. They refuse to let you f*ck them in their ass.
maybe she is sore from letting everyone else fuck her in the ass...trust me, it's wasn't that good >:(
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You know Vince, I have never said anything to you, not even a "Fuck You", but today that will change.
First off, Robert and I went to the same High School and he is a much sweeter person in real life than most of these so-called "Pros".
Secondly, you have no clue what any of us truly do on these boards. Many of us here not only help to support the sport by attending the shows, but we also BUY supplements from the same companies that SPONSOR the Pros and Shows that we speak of on a daily basis. Some of us, like myself, have even taken time to write articles about the sport, taken pictures of many pros (That have been used by respectable sites) and even helped to get some of these Pros on their feet when shit was bad. So please don't assume that 99.99999999% of us do nothing for the sport...
With regards to Robert Michael, he is a voice & face for the sport of bodybuilding. Unlike 99.9% of these Pros, Bob actually has been in a few Hollywood films and is recognized amongst many elite groups. He is also well-spoken and looks pretty good for a man his age, something which 97% of the Pros can't say for themselves.
So with all due respect Vince, Fuck you and your fucking old-man grip strength.
"1"
Much appreciated my friend....
What year did you graduate?
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People.....athletes, weightlifters, etc...
Less than 5% of our business is from competitive BBers...
I buy mostly from BB.com
I have tons of white tshirts that they send you with every order over $75, I usually give them away
prices are competitive on most items....too bad that they stopped selling vasopro
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Much appreciated my friend....
What year did you graduate?
He's just a stalker trying to "pick up" on you Bob. ::)
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Much appreciated my friend....
What year did you graduate?
Class of '81
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He's just a stalker trying to "pick up" on you Bob. ::)
"Chaos" I thought you and I were friends?
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He's just a stalker trying to "pick up" on you Bob. ::)
since bob is an IFBB pro he fully understands when a man is making overtures to him
I am sure that bob will PM him his g4p rates
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"Chaos" I thought you and I were friends?
Who said we weren't? Oh, snap, did I just blow your cover? :o
since bob is an IFBB pro he fully understands when a man is making overtures to him
I am sure that bob will PM him his g4p rates
Gotcha ;)
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since bob is an IFBB pro he fully understands when a man is making overtures to him
I am sure that bob will PM him his g4p rates
Come on Steele, at least post something that is remotely funny. How about posting one of your pictures??
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Who said we weren't? Oh, snap, did I just blow your cover? :o
No cover blown. I only feel that friends shouldn't call each other stalkers..
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No cover blown. I only feel that friends shouldn't call each other stalkers..
Friends should be honest, right? I found your *seeking Bob's attention* to acknowledge your defense of him and the way you pumped up what a great guy he is, kinda stalkerish.
Do you have a different word you prefer? :-*
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Friends should be honest, right? I found your *seeking Bob's attention* to acknowledge your defense of him and the way you pumped up what a great guy he is, kinda stalkerish.
Do you have a different word you prefer? :-*
How about the term "Caring Homosexual"?
You know Chaos, sometimes you can be quite the fag, remember when you sent this to me?
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since bob is an IFBB pro he fully understands when a man is making overtures to him
I am sure that bob will PM him his g4p rates
LOL....that's pretty funny...."G4P"....
no such thing my friend...
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You know Vince, I have never said anything to you, not even a "Fuck You", but today that will change.
First off, Robert and I went to the same High School and he is a much sweeter person in real life than most of these so-called "Pros".
Secondly, you have no clue what any of us truly do on these boards. Many of us here not only help to support the sport by attending the shows, but we also BUY supplements from the same companies that SPONSOR the Pros and Shows that we speak of on a daily basis. Some of us, like myself, have even taken time to write articles about the sport, taken pictures of many pros (That have been used by respectable sites) and even helped to get some of these Pros on their feet when shit was bad. So please don't assume that 99.99999999% of us do nothing for the sport...
With regards to Robert Michael, he is a voice & face for the sport of bodybuilding. Unlike 99.9% of these Pros, Bob actually has been in a few Hollywood films and is recognized amongst many elite groups. He is also well-spoken and looks pretty good for a man his age, something which 97% of the Pros can't say for themselves.
So with all due respect Vince, Fuck you and your fucking old-man grip strength.
"1"
Epic stalker.
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LOL....that's pretty funny...."G4P"....
no such thing my friend...
?!?!?!?!?!?! ::)
So does this mean those photo shoots of JOJ, Silvio, Kai etc. etc. etc. were done for free???????????????
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?!?!?!?!?!?! ::)
So does this mean those photo shoots of JOJ, Silvio, Kai etc. etc. etc. were done for free???????????????
Although not my style...those that chose to take pics like those do so by their own choice...who it markets to is irrelevant. I guess you could call Playgirl mag "gay" as well, even though it's supposed to cater to women.....
THat being said, all this G4P talk is ridiculous....you either engage in homosexual activity because you enjoy it, or you just don't do it.....if it's "for money", then I guess you would be a gay prostitute.....
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Although not my style...those that chose to take pics like those do so by their own choice...who it markets to is irrelevant. I guess you could call Playgirl mag "gay" as well, even though it's supposed to cater to women.....
THat being said, all this G4P talk is ridiculous....you either engage in homosexual activity because you enjoy it, or you just don't do it.....if it's "for money", then I guess you would be a gay prostitute.....
yeah man up tell it like it is :)
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LOL....that's pretty funny...."G4P"....
no such thing my friend...
Not according to Klien, who spent seven years studying top level bodybuilding.
Sociologist/anthropologist Klein ( Sugarball: The American Game, The Dominican Dream ) spent seven years hanging out at four elite West Coast bodybuilding gyms, and his observations of this strange, hyper-masculine subculture, though sometimes shackled by academic jargon, are telling. He tracks bodybuilding's roots in Charles Atlas ads and the film Pumping Iron , then offers a taxonomy of gym characters, from onlookers to professional bodybuilders. He savvily analyzes "the political economy of bodybuilding," describing how a few entrepreneurs and promoters control the sport, and how competitors find jobs--as bouncers, bodyguards and the like--at which they can put their muscle to use. Klein finds much irony in the view that one's body is entirely in one's control, since genetics affect potential, and steroids destroy more than they add. Moreover, though bodybuilding is enshrined in the minds of its practitioners as heterosexual, large numbers of competitors survive by homosexual hustling. In contrast to male bodybuilders, female ones see the sport more as a means than as an end in itself; and many male bodybuilders, Klein suggests, find support for misogyny and homophobia in their barbell world.
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How about the term "Caring Homosexual"?
You know Chaos, sometimes you can be quite the fag, remember when you sent this to me?
I don't remember that one ;)
Although I had my expert PM forger look into this and he says this one is fake. Any idea how that happened ???
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Not according to Klien, who spent seven years studying top level bodybuilding.
Sociologist/anthropologist Klein ( Sugarball: The American Game, The Dominican Dream ) spent seven years hanging out at four elite West Coast bodybuilding gyms, and his observations of this strange, hyper-masculine subculture, though sometimes shackled by academic jargon, are telling. He tracks bodybuilding's roots in Charles Atlas ads and the film Pumping Iron , then offers a taxonomy of gym characters, from onlookers to professional bodybuilders. He savvily analyzes "the political economy of bodybuilding," describing how a few entrepreneurs and promoters control the sport, and how competitors find jobs--as bouncers, bodyguards and the like--at which they can put their muscle to use. Klein finds much irony in the view that one's body is entirely in one's control, since genetics affect potential, and steroids destroy more than they add. Moreover, though bodybuilding is enshrined in the minds of its practitioners as heterosexual, large numbers of competitors survive by homosexual hustling. In contrast to male bodybuilders, female ones see the sport more as a means than as an end in itself; and many male bodybuilders, Klein suggests, find support for misogyny and homophobia in their barbell world.
i believe RMC not some bookworm
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LOL....that's pretty funny...."G4P"....
no such thing my friend...
Come on Bob..you absolutely KNOW that G4P exists...I know for sure you don't engage in it (because you've got that awesome wife of yours waiting back home) but I and many other BB fans believe it does exist...Dexter Jackson mentioned a few years ago that a famous rich guy in NY city gave him an all expenses paid trip to NY and once he got there the rich guy wanted some G4P...Dex says he turned it down but you can't tell me that all bodybuilders turn it down...Bob does make a point though that what bodybuilders do with their bodies is not a reflection on BB because there are many people in all aspects of life and in all professions that are homosexual and will do G4P...another thing Bob is that while most of your money comes from BB. com, you make money indirectly from the thousands of visitors to the site who purchase products..they visit that site due to their interest in BB being piqued by the various contests, magazines and IFBB BB personalities...BB.com could not make money on the average gym schmoe who does not follow BB and who do not purchase supplements because they don't read the magazines and therefore haven't been suckered into buying them..LOL..finally Bob lets stop talking about this stuff and talk about when you are going to put out a hot DVD of you and your hot wife having sex?...you could quit BB.com due to the income you'd make off of that!
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dice clay said: "either you iz or you ain't"
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We have had this analogy many times over. If you belong to one fraternity in college, and you go to another one, and while you are there, talk crap about your old fraternity, and then later on you decide you want to come back, you will find it very hard to do so.
As for the IFBB, each individual decides if he wants to compete there or not. As long as they are in good standing with the organization. They choose to compete, they don't have to.
What are the solutions to all this bellyaching?
1. For the people who think the IFBB is a cult, screws with the athletes, a terrible org and is out for just money:
Why don't all of you get together, start a federation based on your opinions? What, you don't have the money or time? What about connections to supplement companies and major BB magazines? How about money for venue locations and staff to coordinate these major events? All of you make it sound like the IFBB has very little to do when organizing these events. And that they shouldn't be paid! How do you think the venue location and coordinating staff is paid for? Oh, you THINK everyone should just volunteer their time? What about the booths that other companies rent? Do you think they rent them every year because they lose money? Who pays for the hall for companies to come in? The IFBB events are helping keep America employed! I heard at the Classic 2007, one booth for $2,000 made a company over $70,000 that weekend!
For myself, I am thankful they are still around - with all that has occurred to a lot of pros, crime or otherwise, the IFBB still continues to serve the athletes who are still stage ready. Most of you fail to see what it takes to have such an org for the such an event planned for really very few people onstage. SO, you are saying that you can do a better job than the IFBB and put 4-6,000 people in the seats?
2. For the people who have such brazen opinions about those who are employed by the IFBB? Why don't you offer Chick and others a good paying job so they can feed their families? What would your company do if you agreed to bash them too? I believe that is loyalty which all companies require. You all sound jealous of these people, maybe you should apply for IFBB or BB.com job too? How would you be if you were hired?
3. How many of you think you can run a federation which puts people (some with little or no education) on the map for all of us to enjoy and use as mentors? Why don't you people who are so ready to condemn the IFBB come up with a solution - a different federation, giving the athletes free-reign to do whatever they think on how the new federation should be ran? Stop being a nagging fan and find solutions!
Some of you fail to see the IFBB is a company which has been around for decades and who have brought bodybuilding into the limelight so we can have something special in our lives to talk about! It brings to the public the sport of bodybuilding which all of us love. Do you think you could do better? We will never agree with any company's rules unless we write them ourselves! Would you allow a stranger to come into your home and write the rules? Yes, the IFBB is a home for these athletes when they really do not have many other places to go.
You must ask yourselves: Would I be willing to put forth the energy, time, money and efforts to an already struggling sport who deals with athletes (some with little or no education) and make it professional somehow? These athletes are referred to as pros because the IFBB gives that pro status without requiring formal education. Who cares what the athletes do after hours, as long as they perform according the company's desire and the company has the right to deem what is important to them? Not you. Why didn't Lee get a job at a sports retail store part time? Didn't he have a contract with a magazine and supplement company already? Why does he need more money? No, I think he competed with the PDI just for spite and was just playing the role that he does, a disrespectful and dishonest person. There have been too many people who were destroyed in his wake as he speed boats through life, taking. Ask him about his long-term friendships?
What Lee did is unforgivable in so many ways! I was very surprised that Jim Manion called it a suspension. But I guess he wanted to see what Lee would do and to offer another chance? Lee has done nothing but create more animosity. On his board and other means like the make-shift petition, now this movie clip with Rocky as if Sly won't pursue a piracy lawsuit against him. Rocky has integrity; Lee is well, no clue. Who are these people that think this is professional? These people are trying to destroy Lee and now have taken away any thought of Lee being a professional anything. Why is Lee so blind? All the IFBB wanted him to do is develop a respect for the org and stop all the crap!
Maybe the wife and frat analogies were not quite real, but for some people here, they offered understanding. How about this analogy? You work for me. I OWN THE COMPANY, I have my rules and since they are MINE, I get to ENFORCE, IMPLEMENT, CHANGE and APPLY them any way I choose. Until you own this company: Your Choices? DO what I say or GET OUT, because I can find people who will CHOOSE to work for me!
As for his denying about voicing negative opinions about the IFBB on the internet and in magazines. Remember Lee's recent article in MMI August issue: "I'm just playing with people and I have no intentions of competing for the IFBB. The PDI is for me from now on." Why does he want to come back now? Because the PDI ended. Lee actually stole winnings from the other no-names who competed for the PDI, and Wayne allowed it. Yes, Lee is a thief because he knew he was above that caliber; everyone knew.
Wayne was not a known angel while he was with the IFBB; all things in life come full circle; maybe that is what he is experiencing now. Jim Manion has been great for pro bodybuilding; many athletes who did not care for the IFBB rules (but followed them anyway for the love of the sport and the fans), but found their lives to be more fulfilled because of the IFBB. Even after retirement, these pros are still recognized and are still making a little money having competed for the IFBB, Tom Platz, Lee Haney, Lou Ferrigno, Lee Labrada, Frank Zane, Rich Gaspari to name a few. Tell me again how the IFBB is no good? Are we not having fun attending the events?
You know what, the sport would be dead right now and you all are trying your best not to see you are part of the murder! When you are dealing with guys who just want to grow and have no real profound talent accept muscles and symmetry, you must have bosses like Jim and Wayne to make the world see them as professionals. My God, you people who claim to love this sport, I just don't see where you are trying to make it better!
Really, Lee created this whole thing; he needs to move on and stop trying to be paid for hanging out and training; he needs to get a job and stop living off of people. What? He being onstage, do you really think he has talent? Face it, he is just a big, short guy who is weird with tattoos; yeah, he might bring more people in, but who would want those kinds of fans in the audience? I think the IFBB are making great decisions, and yeah they are probably losing some money, but I think they are wise enough to realize they would rather take their chances WITHOUT Lee. Maybe he should try out for wrestling, maybe a little Hulk, but then he would have to change his persona and be a good guy. Something I think Lee has no clue of what that means!
So now, let's hear it! Are you starting a new federation where the athletes have all the say-so? Oh, and yes, go ahead. Bash the IFBB and destroy them! But you better have a home for the pros - or is your goal to make them "homeless"?
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What are the solutions to all this bellyaching?
1. For the people who think the IFBB is a cult, screws with the athletes, a terrible org and is out for just money:
Why don't all of you get together, start a federation based on your opinions? What, you don't have the money or time? What about connections to supplement companies and major BB magazines? How about money for venue locations and staff to coordinate these major events? All of you make it sound like the IFBB has very little to do when organizing these events. And that they shouldn't be paid! How do you think the venue location and coordinating staff is paid for? Oh, you THINK everyone should just volunteer their time? What about the booths that other companies rent? Do you think they rent them every year because they lose money? Who pays for the hall for companies to come in? The IFBB events are helping keep America employed! I heard at the Classic 2007, one booth for $2,000 made a company over $70,000 that weekend!
For myself, I am thankful they are still around - with all that has occurred to a lot of pros, crime or otherwise, the IFBB still continues to serve the athletes who are still stage ready. Most of you fail to see what it takes to have such an org for the such an event planned for really very few people onstage. SO, you are saying that you can do a better job than the IFBB and put 4-6,000 people in the seats?
2. For the people who have such brazen opinions about those who are employed by the IFBB? Why don't you offer Chick and others a good paying job so they can feed their families? What would your company do if you agreed to bash them too? I believe that is loyalty which all companies require. You all sound jealous of these people, maybe you should apply for IFBB or BB.com job too? How would you be if you were hired?
3. How many of you think you can run a federation which puts people (some with little or no education) on the map for all of us to enjoy and use as mentors? Why don't you people who are so ready to condemn the IFBB come up with a solution - a different federation, giving the athletes free-reign to do whatever they think on how the new federation should be ran? Stop being a nagging fan and find solutions!
Some of you fail to see the IFBB is a company which has been around for decades and who have brought bodybuilding into the limelight so we can have something special in our lives to talk about! It brings to the public the sport of bodybuilding which all of us love. Do you think you could do better? We will never agree with any company's rules unless we write them ourselves! Would you allow a stranger to come into your home and write the rules? Yes, the IFBB is a home for these athletes when they really do not have many other places to go.
You must ask yourselves: Would I be willing to put forth the energy, time, money and efforts to an already struggling sport who deals with athletes (some with little or no education) and make it professional somehow? These athletes are referred to as pros because the IFBB gives that pro status without requiring formal education. Who cares what the athletes do after hours, as long as they perform according the company's desire and the company has the right to deem what is important to them? Not you. Why didn't Lee get a job at a sports retail store part time? Didn't he have a contract with a magazine and supplement company already? Why does he need more money? No, I think he competed with the PDI just for spite and was just playing the role that he does, a disrespectful and dishonest person. There have been too many people who were destroyed in his wake as he speed boats through life, taking. Ask him about his long-term friendships?
What Lee did is unforgivable in so many ways! I was very surprised that Jim Manion called it a suspension. But I guess he wanted to see what Lee would do and to offer another chance? Lee has done nothing but create more animosity. On his board and other means like the make-shift petition, now this movie clip with Rocky as if Sly won't pursue a piracy lawsuit against him. Rocky has integrity; Lee is well, no clue. Who are these people that think this is professional? These people are trying to destroy Lee and now have taken away any thought of Lee being a professional anything. Why is Lee so blind? All the IFBB wanted him to do is develop a respect for the org and stop all the crap!
Maybe the wife and frat analogies were not quite real, but for some people here, they offered understanding. How about this analogy? You work for me. I OWN THE COMPANY, I have my rules and since they are MINE, I get to ENFORCE, IMPLEMENT, CHANGE and APPLY them any way I choose. Until you own this company: Your Choices? DO what I say or GET OUT, because I can find people who will CHOOSE to work for me!
As for his denying about voicing negative opinions about the IFBB on the internet and in magazines. Remember Lee's recent article in MMI August issue: "I'm just playing with people and I have no intentions of competing for the IFBB. The PDI is for me from now on." Why does he want to come back now? Because the PDI ended. Lee actually stole winnings from the other no-names who competed for the PDI, and Wayne allowed it. Yes, Lee is a thief because he knew he was above that caliber; everyone knew.
Wayne was not a known angel while he was with the IFBB; all things in life come full circle; maybe that is what he is experiencing now. Jim Manion has been great for pro bodybuilding; many athletes who did not care for the IFBB rules (but followed them anyway for the love of the sport and the fans), but found their lives to be more fulfilled because of the IFBB. Even after retirement, these pros are still recognized and are still making a little money having competed for the IFBB, Tom Platz, Lee Haney, Lou Ferrigno, Lee Labrada, Frank Zane, Rich Gaspari to name a few. Tell me again how the IFBB is no good? Are we not having fun attending the events?
You know what, the sport would be dead right now and you all are trying your best not to see you are part of the murder! When you are dealing with guys who just want to grow and have no real profound talent accept muscles and symmetry, you must have bosses like Jim and Wayne to make the world see them as professionals. My God, you people who claim to love this sport, I just don't see where you are trying to make it better!
Really, Lee created this whole thing; he needs to move on and stop trying to be paid for hanging out and training; he needs to get a job and stop living off of people. What? He being onstage, do you really think he has talent? Face it, he is just a big, short guy who is weird with tattoos; yeah, he might bring more people in, but who would want those kinds of fans in the audience? I think the IFBB are making great decisions, and yeah they are probably losing some money, but I think they are wise enough to realize they would rather take their chances WITHOUT Lee. Maybe he should try out for wrestling, maybe a little Hulk, but then he would have to change his persona and be a good guy. Something I think Lee has no clue of what that means!
So now, let's hear it! Are you starting a new federation where the athletes have all the say-so? Oh, and yes, go ahead. Bash the IFBB and destroy them! But you better have a home for the pros - or is your goal to make them "homeless"?
first of all before I disagree with you, I must say your argument was very well thought out and presented nicely...I agree with everything you say,mostly..but you are missing the point...this is about the athletes being able to compete where they want when they want to...they are independent contractors NOT IFBB employees...that's like me being an independent house building contractor, building you a house, you paying me for the house, then telling me "oh by the way, you can never build a house for anyone else but me"...huh?... I am not an employee of yours....I make money based on my reputation and how good I am and bodybuilders do the same thing...The IFBB says that they are providng the athletes with exposure so that they can market themselves, but that "exposure" is paid for by the athlete in terms of his not being paid for photo shoots and not being reimbursed for other things...and competing at their own expense in terms of food, gear, plane and hotel...Yes the IFBB is a wonderful organization that has done well for itself and in promoting bodybuilding in general, but not all of their practices are fair or sound...Lee spoke up about this....nothing wrong with that...
how about in baseball when Curt Flood challenged the reserve clause system where owners owned their players and the players could do nothing about it?..players were paid lousy wages (oftentimes $9,000 to $20,000 a year)and could be bought , sold, traded and blackballed from the game without their consent...baseball did business like that for 75 years before the courts struck it down.... when bodybuilders left the IFBB for the WBF and came back why were they penalized so heavily and blackballed if they are "independent contractors"?...because the IFBB is a monopoly and could get away with it...Joe Weider will go to businessman's heaven for being such a brilliant businessman, god bless him, but his ownership of the major BB mags and running the IFBB was an incestrous relationship where he could blackball bodybuilders from his mags if they didn't toe the line...ewven independent magazines such as Musclemag and others, seldom criticize the IFBB and do little investigative reporting of them... they will let a guy like Lee voice his grievances but notice they never offer any editorials or opinions critcal of the IFBB...what does that say?
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first of all before I disagree with you, I must say your argument was very well thought out and presented nicely...I agree with everything you say,mostly..but you are missing the point...this is about the athletes being able to compete where they want when they want to...they are independent contractors NOT IFBB employees...that's like me being an independent house building contractor, building you a house, you paying me for the house, then telling me "oh by the way, you can never build a house for anyone else but me"...huh?... I am not an employee of yours....I make money based on my reputation and how good I am and bodybuilders do the same thing...The IFBB says that they are providng the athletes with exposure so that they can market themselves, but that "exposure" is paid for by the athlete in terms of his not being paid for photo shoots and not being reimbursed for other things...and competing at their own expense in terms of food, gear, plane and hotel...Yes the IFBB is a wonderful organization that has done well for itself and in promoting bodybuilding in general, but not all of their practices are fair or sound...Lee spoke up about this....nothing wrong with that...
how about in baseball when Curt Flood challenged the reserve clause system where owners owned their players and the players could do nothing about it?..players were paid lousy wages (oftentimes $9,000 to $20,000 a year)and could be bought , sold, traded and blackballed from the game without their consent...baseball did business like that for 75 years before the courts struck it down.... when bodybuilders left the IFBB for the WBF and came back why were they penalized so heavily and blackballed if they are "independent contractors"?...because the IFBB is a monopoly and could get away with it...Joe Weider will go to businessman's heaven for being such a brilliant businessman, god bless him, but his ownership of the major BB mags and running the IFBB was an incestrous relationship where he could blackball bodybuilders from his mags if they didn't toe the line...ewven independent magazines such as Musclemag and others, seldom criticize the IFBB and do little investigative reporting of them... they will let a guy like Lee voice his grievances but notice they never offer any editorials or opinions critcal of the IFBB...what does that say?
I think the IFBB has failed promoting the bodybuilders. Why was Cutler not on Leno? ESPN? talk shows? IN mainstream mags?
Casue the IFBB doesn't promote anything, they just get their sanction fees.
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first of all before I disagree with you, I must say your argument was very well thought out and presented nicely...I agree with everything you say,mostly..but you are missing the point...this is about the athletes being able to compete where they want when they want to...they are independent contractors NOT IFBB employees...that's like me being an independent house building contractor, building you a house, you paying me for the house, then telling me "oh by the way, you can never build a house for anyone else but me"...huh?... I am not an employee of yours....I make money based on my reputation and how good I am and bodybuilders do the same thing...The IFBB says that they are providng the athletes with exposure so that they can market themselves, but that "exposure" is paid for by the athlete in terms of his not being paid for photo shoots and not being reimbursed for other things...and competing at their own expense in terms of food, gear, plane and hotel...Yes the IFBB is a wonderful organization that has done well for itself and in promoting bodybuilding in general, but not all of their practices are fair or sound...Lee spoke up about this....nothing wrong with that...
how about in baseball when Curt Flood challenged the reserve clause system where owners owned their players and the players could do nothing about it?..players were paid lousy wages (oftentimes $9,000 to $20,000 a year)and could be bought , sold, traded and blackballed from the game without their consent...baseball did business like that for 75 years before the courts struck it down.... when bodybuilders left the IFBB for the WBF and came back why were they penalized so heavily and blackballed if they are "independent contractors"?...because the IFBB is a monopoly and could get away with it...Joe Weider will go to businessman's heaven for being such a brilliant businessman, god bless him, but his ownership of the major BB mags and running the IFBB was an incestrous relationship where he could blackball bodybuilders from his mags if they didn't toe the line...ewven independent magazines such as Musclemag and others, seldom criticize the IFBB and do little investigative reporting of them... they will let a guy like Lee voice his grievances but notice they never offer any editorials or opinions critcal of the IFBB...what does that say?
Brilliantly said. Succinctly put. You hit the nail on the head! All this employer-employee analogy is just a smokescreen - to cloud the issue and conceal the fact that the IFBB IS A MONOPOLY.
Like all monopolies, the IFBB would exploit and if they could, screw the BBers and the fans if they could get away with it!
Start another org? That's what Wayne deMelia tried to do, starting the PDI. The IFBB's response? Blackball and screw the BBers who dared to compete in the PDI! How true to form.
Only with the intervention of the AG, can this vile monopoly be put where it belongs - in the scrapheap of history! The Curt Flood case has shown the way. I trust that some brave BBer will summon the strength to file a complaint with the AG. And hey, there's aboslutely NO LEGAL COSTS involved! Only the IFBB will incur legal costs if the AG hauls them to court.
We'll see then how tough the IFBB really is and see if this bully-boy would continue to throw his weight around.
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Some of you fail to see the IFBB is a company which has been around for decades and who have brought bodybuilding into the limelight so we can have something special in our lives to talk about! It brings to the public the sport of bodybuilding which all of us love. Do you think you could do better? We will never agree with any company's rules unless we write them ourselves! Would you allow a stranger to come into your home and write the rules? Yes, the IFBB is a home for these athletes when they really do not have many other places to go.
Strange that you call the IFBB a "company". They're a non-profit federation. (at least that's what they tell the tax-man ::)). Since they are not a company that actually employs these guys or pays them a salary, what right do they have to impose "rules" on them that apply to anything other than IFBB events?
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The Sex Cult of Venice Beach
by Jason Caruso
Preface
The story that you're about to read falls under the classification of truth being far stranger than fiction. It involves several of the men glorified as heroes in the pages of physique magazines like Flex and Muscle and Fitness — pro bodybuilders who are the icons and inspirations to the current crop of budding young weight trainers in much the same fashion that Steve Reeves, Arnold, and Lee Haney were for generations past. Their names have been omitted, for if the details of this interview were linked directly to them, I have no doubt that the bodybuilding careers of these men would almost certainly be destroyed.
It isn't so much for them that I conceal their identities, but rather for their fans. Bodybuilding has always been a sport with a revered pantheon of role models to emulate. I wouldn't want the guilt of knowing that my writings were responsible for a part of that pantheon being forever associated with depravity and perversion.
I've known these men on a very casual basis for several years, yet never suspected the secret lives that they were leading behind the gym and the posing stage. I'll never be able to see so much as a picture of them now without feeling utter, vile revulsion.
Because I couldn't bear the thought that they knew that I've discovered their filthy secret, I opted to write this under an assumed name. To those of you who choose to label me a coward hiding behind a pen name, I must counter that, in this case, the stakes are definitely too high to risk disclosing my identity. It isn't so impossible to speculate that I could also be put in significant danger, as well, should I be identified as the one to break the silence of their clandestine forays into the darkest sins of the flesh.
My source was an actual witness to all of this who regularly sees some of the players in this twisted scenario. He insisted that the identities of all parties be protected and, in fact, wasn't willing to talk until I'd given him my word that this request would be honored. Descriptions of people and locations are intentionally kept vague.
All that you need to know about my source is that he's a bodybuilder, and the players felt as if he was someone that they could safely involve in their game as a willing participant. As it turned out, they were wrong.
This is the story of the most disturbing night of this man's life. Be forewarned, all descriptions are quite graphic. If you're easily offended by sexually explicit discussion, you may want to skip this interview altogether.
T: How did this night begin for you?
Secret Source: We'd all just gone to a big show where I knew a few of the competitors, including the winner. Afterward, a few of my friends and I were invited to a party for the winner. He arrived in a limo with a bunch of people.
T: What was the first thing to tip you off that this wasn't a typical party?
SS: When I arrived, there was no alcohol and I didn't smell any pot, but everyone was walking around like they were drunk or loaded. Guys had their shirts off and wore these funny-looking crosses on chains. Some had snakes wrapped around their necks, too.
As soon as I walked in, guys were introducing me and others to their girlfriends and wives. The girls would start checking you out, looking you up and down. Then they'd look at their man and nod or say, "Yeah, okay." A few minutes later, you'd see different guys fondling these other guys' wives. Or it would be women all over them. My buddy elbows me and says:
"Look, this guy's over there on the floor about to jump that girl's bones!"
I look over, and it was no girl. It was another guy. There was probably close to 500 pounds of naked muscle rolling around on the floor kissing.
T: By now, you knew that this was a very different kind of party?
SS: Definitely. Then, four attractive young ladies walked in the door. The first thing they said was, "It hasn't started yet?" One was African-American, two were Caucasian, and one was Asian. One of the white girls was walking around with a long-necked beer bottle, practicing her blowjob technique on it.
As soon as they figured out that "it" hadn't started yet, one of the white girls and the black girl went into a bathroom. They didn't come out for half an hour and were laughing like crazy. The black girl went up to my girlfriend, got right up in her face, and said, "Hi." She winked and licked her lips at her.
T: A friendly gesture, I'd say.
SS: My girl figured out what was happening right away. Then, this famous pornstar comes down the stairs. She's known for being the world's greatest gangbanger (note, there are at least three women in adult film who currently claim this distinction). She approached another girl, a total stranger to her, and tried to take her upstairs to get it on. The girl didn't want to go.
Then my girl wandered into the next room. On a chair was a famous pro bodybuilder with his shirt off, a big guy whom you all know. About eight or ten people, men and women, were sitting on the floor around him, like little kids waiting to hear a story. He was explaining to them how the "game" was going to start off. It was a game like spin the bottle. Whoever the bottle pointed to had to blow him. The winner was the one who could make him cum. He said that everyone needed to participate. This was so that nobody would tell anyone about it.
Another big guy with no shirt was now trying to push me and my friends into the room to be part of the game. Either that, or he wanted us to leave. It was very obvious that you had to get involved or leave. At this point, once they saw that we weren't going to join in the game, they separated my group. They took me and my guy friend into a room with those four girls from before and wanted us to party with them.
Meanwhile, the pornstar was now trying to get my girl to go upstairs. At the same time, one of the guys with no shirt and a funny cross tried to get her to take a hit of Ecstasy. She wouldn't. We seemed to be the only ones who weren't on it.
T: What on earth was this pornstar doing there in the middle of all of these bodybuilders?
SS: She was a friend of a group of foreign guys who really run this thing. They're not bodybuilders, but they're good friends of the contest winner and always seem to be at the major events and gyms. They could be tied into the porn business somehow, but I'm just guessing.
T: Did you do anything with the four wild girls?
SS: I thought about it, but then I thought about what I had to lose. I love my girlfriend and have too much respect for her to do something so meaningless and cheap right in front of her.
On top of that, I got the feeling that after we did anything with the girls, the big guys would try to get us for themselves. It was like if we'd done the girls, it would have been anything goes. No way did I want to have a 250-pound guy trying to force himself on me. There were quite a few of them, too.
T: Out of curiosity, was it an equal ratio of men to women?
SS: No. There were maybe two girls for every guy, and most of them were either really pretty or outright beautiful. But about half of them seemed much more interested in each other than in the men. I think that they were all bisexual.
T: We've established that some of the men were top bodybuilders whom we all know. Were any of the women recognizable bodybuilders or fitness women?
SS: Yes, there were both, and all names that you know.
T: Were these women who we'd suspect would be involved in something like this, or would we all think of them as sweet, innocent Pollyannas?
SS: Pollyannas all the way — nice, wholesome girls ready to fuck anything around that wasn't moving. You'd never guess the ones who were there.
T: Unbelievable. Okay, let's back up a bit. You were invited to this party, even though they didn't know whether or not you'd be accepting of these types of activities? Doesn't that seem strange, even stupid, on their part?
SS: As far as we knew ahead of time, it was just a party. I don't know why they thought that we'd get involved in all of the weird sex. Maybe they just wanted to have sex with us and were willing to take a chance. I found out that the party used to be at a different house. It's been going on for two or three years.
T: What happened next?
SS: I heard a noise in the bathroom. A big guy was screaming, "Give it to me hard, I like it hard!" I recognized his voice. It was someone that I knew. Everyone knows him from the magazines. I never even suspected that he was gay, or bisexual, or whatever he is. But there he was, getting fucked in the ass. A bunch of people were watching.
When those guys finished, another big guy came in, pushed the "pitcher" up against the wall, and started kissing him. Then he went down on him. Now I was really ready to get out of there. They were trying to keep us there. It was one of those very uncomfortable situations where someone is trying to pretend that they're still friendly, but there was an edge of hostility. They were blocking our exit, saying, "Hey, you don't have to go." I didn't know whether they'd try to physically restrain or attack us, but we left, and nothing happened.
T: I have to ask, in the age of AIDS, were these guys using condoms throughout all of this?
SS: Believe it or not, no. Chalk it up to the drugs, or maybe they're just plain stupid. Maybe they don't care whether they live or die. You think that you know people, and then some bizarre shit like this shows you that you have no idea what some people are really up to. Secret lives, man, secret lives.
T: It must've been the weirdest night of your life.
SS: Yes. I was curious, of course, with all of the beautiful women so horny and everything, but it just got too scary. All of the sex stuff happened in the last half-hour that we were there. It felt like that scene in the movie "From Dusk 'Til Dawn" when suddenly everybody except the good guys in the bar turns into vampires. I was like, fuck! Biggest shock of my life.
T: You had no idea before that any of this was going on?
SS: Yeah, but I never saw it. You hear so much bullshit and rumors out here that turns out to be untrue. I recall when there was a big fight inside the Firehouse [a restaurant in Venice that's a big bodybuilder hangout] over it. One of the guys was jealous or something. This bodybuilder was mad at the other one and started calling contest promoters and judges to tell them what was going on.
I also remember now that the two guys in the bathroom had been seen making out at a bar in front of at least 15 or 20 people, supposedly at the request of one of their wives. Come to think of it, I was at one of their parties had once, and two big bodybuilder chicks started wrestling nude on the floor. One of them had the biggest clit I've ever seen. They started getting it on, then he [the host] and his wife jumped in and joined them.
Maybe that should've tipped me off about him. But who'd imagine that you'd go to a party and all of these people would be into this stuff? It just goes beyond what we're willing to accept can really happen. And these guys, I always thought that they were manly men — big, macho dudes. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that they were into each other, as well as girls.
T: I'm curious to know what happened the next day and since. Have you run into any of them, and how have you handled it?
SS: The limo driver who drove to the party got into trouble with the contest winner the next day for telling about what had happened on the ride over there. He saw them all slamming Ecstasy and shooting Nubain. There were empty cartons of Nubain everywhere. Can you imagine how fucked up they must've been? Not that it excuses what they did, but that's quite a combination. It's basically like taking acid and shooting heroin at the same time.
The worst thing, I heard that the limo driver also reported that one of the other pros had started yelling, "I told you what I was gonna' do if you won, I told you!" before going down and sucking the winner's dick right then and there in the back of the limo. It turns out that the trainer of the contest winner had instructed the limo driver to report back to him everything he saw. I guess that he had his suspicions about what his client was up to, hanging around with those shady little foreign guys all of the time. He's been going around the gym, pissed off, telling a lot of people about it. I don't know if he'll ever get that guy ready for another show now.
I actually saw a few of the big guys who'd been at the party the next day at the gym. They didn't realize that I was right next to them. One of them complained about his asshole being sore. They joked that he must have been with "Mushroom Dick." He said:
"Hell, no! Did you see the size of that thing? It was as big around as a water glass."
My girl overheard that part and couldn't contain herself. She laughed out loud. That's when the guy saw that we were right there. He hung his head and walked away. He was ashamed. How embarrassing for him.
T: You never mentioned anything about Mushroom Dick before.
SS: I must've blocked it out. That was really fucked up. The night of the party, this foreign guy was telling everyone that his dick head looked like a giant mushroom. He was telling this to me and my girl, total strangers that he'd seen maybe a couple of times in the gym.
He'd injected Esiclene right into his dick to see how big it would swell up. For a while, he was Dirk fucking Diggler. His wife loved the big new dick and was demanding sex with him constantly, he said, but it hurt him. It was also supposedly drawing too much blood and making him lightheaded. A girl at the party had tried to give him head, but he had to stop her after a minute. I later found out that he had to ice it to get it to go down to normal, and then he couldn't get a hard-on for three weeks. I've heard a lot of people do stupid things in this sport, but that takes the cake. What's next, Synthol?
T: Are you worried that these people might figure out that you gave this interview?
SS: Of course I am.
T: What do you think that they'd do?
SS: The bodybuilders would probably just get mad and never talk to me again. But there's also that group of foreign guys involved in all of this, some very shady characters who are into who knows what. They aren't really bodybuilders, yet you always see them hanging around the gym and at all of the big shows. They're all loaded with money and drive very expensive cars and trucks, yet they don't seem to work. I'm more concerned about them. I've heard that they're crazy.
T: Do you think that, on a whole, they're afraid of being exposed?
SS: I'd have to say that I don't think that they care very much. They were too open, and there were just too many people at the party. The way that they were all talking, it seemed like this goes on just about every weekend.
T: Don't some of these people have a lot to lose if all of this came to light?
SS: Definitely.
T: Do you think that it was wise for them to invite you and your friends, not knowing how receptive you'd be?
SS: No, I think that they were pretty stupid. But these aren't logical people. Lust and drugs cloud over their minds or something.
T: What would the fans of these pros think if they knew about this?
SS: Compare it to someone seeing Mark McGuire sucking a dick. You'd have a lot of shell-shocked baseball fans, wouldn't you? It kind of put a bad taste in my mouth for the whole sport of bodybuilding. These guys aren't who I thought they were.
T: Hasn't there always been a big gay element associated with bodybuilding, particularly the Venice Beach scene?
SS: Well, there's one particular wealthy old guy in the gym industry who's infamous. He's put up more top amateur and pro bodybuilders in his house than the Marina Pacific Hotel. Most times, he'd help by giving them a place to stay while they looked for an apartment.
Other guys would go there a month or two before a show so that they could train in Venice. That's a big deal to someone from another country or places like Ohio or Boston. The ones that he really liked, he'd give them two thousand bucks a month for expenses. If you go through all of the guys from magazine covers over the past ten years, a ton of them have stayed at this guy's house at one time or another.
T: What did the bodybuilders have to do in return?
SS: From what I've heard from some of the guys, the main thing is that he likes for them to walk around with no shirt on, just shorts or underwear. He really likes having them around before contests when they're in great shape. Other times, he'd want them to let him watch while they banged a girl. I never heard about any of the guys having to do anything with him but, then again, I doubt that it's the type of thing that you'd tell everyone about.
T: Back to the party that you attended. The strange crosses, the snakes — it sounds like some kind of cult or religion. What was that all about?
SS: I don't know. To be honest, it scared the shit out of me. I really don't want to know. I believe in God, and this seemed evil to me. Some kind of cult, yeah. Satanic or something, maybe, maybe not. I didn't see any pentagrams or sacrifices, if that's what you mean. Maybe they just thought that it looked cool or hip.
T: How do you deal with seeing some of these people at the gym all of the time now?
SS: It's totally awkward. I just say to myself that it's their lifestyle. I don't agree with it, but who am I to say what's right or wrong?
T: Have you had any nightmares about that night?
SS: No, but it sure would make an interesting video.
T: Suppose that there was a video or pictures, and it ended up on the Internet. What do you think would happen to the pro bodybuilders who were there?
SS: They'd lose a lot of respect, and especially money. Those contracts that they have, the endorsements, all of it would be gone in a second. I think that they'd care more about the money. If they really cared about being respected, they wouldn't be doing all of this shit.
T: Do you think that these guys will ever get caught or exposed?
SS: I think that it's only a matter of time. Like I said, there were a lot of people at the party, and we all know that bodybuilders aren't always the most emotionally mature people on the planet. I think that someone will get mad at someone else and start blabbing to the media to really ruin them.
T: Would magazines print this, or would it be too outrageous?
SS: Certain ones would, and others wouldn't. Some would lose money, like those that promote these guys and use them to sell products. It's a fucked-up sport. This really isn't so shocking when you stop and consider that the same company promotes the shows, has the guys under contract, and runs the biggest magazines.
T: If you'd been invited and had known what was planned to transpire, would you have gone?
SS: No. It was scary, and I wouldn't want to be in that situation again.
T: What did you find most offensive?
SS: That they were trying to push people into doing things that they clearly didn't want to do. It was very uncomfortable. I still feel sick to my stomach thinking back about it.
T: Was it the gay sex in particular that bothered you?
SS: That was bad enough. I'd never in my life seen two men together, and I never wanted to, either. What they do behind closed doors is none of my business, but this was literally right in front of me. I felt dirty.
Another thing that still haunts me is the lack of respect between husbands and wives. These guys didn't care whether their wives started fucking some big meathead she just met right in front of them. I value marriage a lot more than that.
T: Had there been no homosexual activity whatsoever, would you still have been shocked?
SS: No. A lot of bodybuilders are exhibitionists and sex addicts. I've seen guys hook up with female groupies at shows a hundred times.
T: Would you have participated, in that case?
SS: Yeah, I'll be honest. If I hadn't had my girl with me and I knew for sure that she wouldn't have found out? Hell, yeah, I would've gotten down. I never claimed to be an angel. I'm just saying that the things I saw that night blew my mind and scared the hell out of me.
Epilogue
Since this interview was conducted, it seems that a gossip columnist for one of the top physique magazines has heard about the "cult" and is actively pursuing the story. Apparently, she's already printed a vague remark about a pro bodybuilder's wife partying with some of the contestants following a certain event. The truth, according to my source, is that the very famous pro bodybuilder and his girlfriend did, indeed, attend the party, but they were just as uncomfortable as him and his friends and never participated in any of the illicit activities.
This female journalist has been probing around the Venice gyms looking for information and has already approached at least two of the partygoers in her search. Unfortunately for her, they feigned ignorance and have spread the word that she's out to ruin the reputations of all involved. Everyone has been asked not to speak to her should she come to them. It's highly unlikely that she'll get her story.
However, as our source postulated, due to the lack of discretion that's employed by those who indulge in these bisexual orgies of muscular flesh and the sheer number of people involved, it's only a matter of time before this whole sordid story is exposed. At that point, the reaction will be similar to that of a rock being lifted to reveal the squirming worms, beetles, and larvae below. It will truly be a dark and humiliating day for the sport of bodybuilding and, surely, several of the men and women implicated in this scandal will be forever ostracized from the sport that once revered them.
When that day does come, don't take pity on them — they won't feel remorse for their actions. They reveled in each and every bit of flesh that they were able to suck, stroke, lick, penetrate, or be penetrated by. Like the players in all of our modern scandals, their only regret will be that they were caught. Don't be overly shocked when it all comes raining down. After all, our heroes are only flesh and blood, and the flesh is weak.
This article was deleted on Mayhem by Tom Prince because it was a "bullshit made up story" and "it talks about a friend of mine". If it's BS and made up why is it talking about a friend of his and how did he recognize him in the story? :D
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what's new in this story everybody knows who the sponsor is, why wreck it for people? :)