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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on February 02, 2008, 11:09:37 AM
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Sounds like it will pass. Needed over 600,000 signatures to make the ballot.
Gay Marriage Ban Makes Florida Ballot
Saturday, February 2, 2008 10:43 AM
TALLAHASSEE — A citizen initiative to ban gay marriage will be on the November ballot, the only one of more than 50 active petition drives that qualified Friday at the deadline for signature verification.
Hometown Democracy, which would have required voter approval of local growth plan changes, was the only other proposal that appeared to have a chance before the 5 p.m. deadline, but it missed the mark.
Officials, though, ran out of time before they could process all signatures due to a deluge of petitions submitted in the past month and the diversion of county election workers to preparing for and carrying out Tuesday’s presidential primary election.
It couldn’t immediately be determined if there were enough unprocessed signatures to have placed Hometown Democracy on the ballot.
Each proposed state constitutional amendment required 611,009 signatures. That’s 8 percent of Florida voters who cast ballots in the last presidential election. The 8 percent criteria also had to be met in at least 13 of Florida’s 25 congressional districts.
The same-sex marriage ban was certified with 649,346 signatures — 38,337 more than the minimum. Hometown Democracy, which was opposed by developers, businesses and many local officials, failed by 65,182 signatures.
Hometown Democracy’s backers said they will continue their drive and seek certification for the 2010 ballot possibly within the next couple months. Petitions are good for four years.
Secretary of State Kurt Browning rejected a request by the Florida Chapter of the Sierra Club, which supports Hometown Democracy, to delay ballot certification until all signatures submitted before Friday’s deadline are checked and counted if they are valid.
“The Florida Constitution requires ballot placement to occur on Feb. 1, and the Division of Elections has a rule that requires the state to base placement on the total number of signatures received by the state before 5 p.m.,” said Browning spokesman Sterling Ivey.
In a request to Browning and Gov. Charlie Crist, Sierra officials said a delay would be justified because of the primary, which moved up this year from March, as well as problems in the state’s electronic counting system and the verification process in some counties.
Opponents of Hometown Democracy, including developers and other business interests, jumped the gun and declared the proposal, which would require voter approval of changes in local growth plans, was dead, at least for this year.
Sponsors of the single-gender marriage ban announced in December they had obtained enough verified signatures. State officials then lowered the count due to a glitch in the Division of Elections’ electronic reporting system, which had double counted some signatures.
Browning shut down the system and stopped posting daily updates on division’s Web site. The last official posting on Jan. 14 showed the gay marriage amendment was 21,989 signatures short. Hometown Democracy needed 109,479 more signatures.
The next closest proposal as of Jan. 14 had less than half of the necessary signatures.
After finding out it was short, Florida4Marriage.org submitted 92,000 more signatures, said the group’s leader, Orlando lawyer John Stemberger.
Hometown Democracy submitted nearly 800,000 signatures, said the group’s leader, Palm Beach lawyer Lesley Blackner.
Some of Hometown Democracy’s opponents proposed an alternate growth management initiative, but Floridians for Smarter Growth acknowledged before the deadline that it didn’t have enough signatures. Its petitions, though, contributed to the glut that kept Hometown Democracy off the ballot.
Michael Caputo of Floridians for Smarter Growth said its backers, including the Florida Chamber of Commerce, have not yet decided whether to seek certification for the 2010 ballot.
Caputo acknowledged the campaign he’s managing was designed to keep Hometown Democracy off the ballot this year so opponents would have more time to organize for 2010.
Blackner said the law gives county supervisors of election too much discretion and some have given signature verification a low priority. She also blamed the Legislature’s decision to move Florida’s presidential primary from March to January.
Another anti-Hometown Democracy group called Save Our Constitution tried to get voters to revoke their signatures under a recently passed law.
It has submitted more than 10,000 revocations, said co-chairman Barney Bishop, chief executive of Associated Industries of Florida.
Mary Cooney, public service director for elections in Broward County, acknowledged the election has played a role, but she said temporary workers were hired to help with the verification. Staffers were unable, though, to keep up with the number of petitions coming in and some missed the deadline, she said.
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Gay_Marriage_Ban_florida/2008/02/02/69574.html
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With all the SERIOUS problems facing America today, this is still a subject of importance? It's 2008, lets get over it already.
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With all the SERIOUS problems facing America today, this is still a subject of importance? It's 2008, lets get over it already.
Stupid conservatives fall for this stuff every time.
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I guess it's possible all or substantially all of the 649,346 people who signed the petition were conservatives . . . but I doubt it.
Same thing passed in Hawaii and the state is overwhelmingly liberal.
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This country is headed into the shitter and feather-brained retards are STILL fretting about gay marriage? ????????????????????
The candidates on one side are:
a senile senator who brought us campaign finance reform, among other gems,
a pathological liar and a Kerryesque flipflopper,
a Baptist preacher nutcase who wants creationism taught in schools.
And on the other side:
Satan herself,
and an amateur who wants to learn on the job.
Jobs, the economy, dead soldiers, soldiers coming home with missing limbs, the rise of China and India as economic, military, and scientific giants, the decline of science standards in the US, etc
How can folks gloss over all these problems and worry about something as trivial and inconsequential as civil marriage for the gays????????
I guess it's "first things first" as Bay's cartoon says...
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With all the SERIOUS problems facing America today, this is still a subject of importance? It's 2008, lets get over it already.
That's what I think. What could possibly be gained by not allowing 2 cock swallowers to get married. They will still be gay regardless. I don't give a shit what they do. As long as they keep their aids and shit covered dicks to themselves that's cool with me.
Enough gay talk....time to go to REDTUBE. ;D
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With all the SERIOUS problems facing America today, this is still a subject of importance? It's 2008, lets get over it already.
Actually, when the folks on MSNBC were covering the McCain/Romney race in Florida, this issue was listed quite low on the list.
I find it funny, because I saw this in the gym a few nights ago and one of the commentators claimed that a marriage amendment wasn't all that important to conservatives in the Sunshine State, citing as proof, that a "last ditch" effort to get the signatures needed was going to fall short. Keep in mind that they already had the signatures they needs months ago, when some last-minute audit, resulted in 30,000 signatures being tossed.
This country is headed into the shitter and feather-brained retards are STILL fretting about gay marriage? ????????????????????
The candidates on one side are:
a senile senator who brought us campaign finance reform, among other gems,
a pathological liar and a Kerryesque flipflopper,
a Baptist preacher nutcase who wants creationism taught in schools.
And on the other side:
Satan herself,
and an amateur who wants to learn on the job.
Jobs, the economy, dead soldiers, soldiers coming home with missing limbs, the rise of China and India as economic, military, and scientific giants, the decline of science standards in the US, etc
How can folks gloss over all these problems and worry about something as trivial and inconsequential as civil marriage for the gays????????
I guess it's "first things first" as Bay's cartoon says...
Ummmm.......I must have missed the rule that says people who vote on this issue do so at the exclusion of other ones.
Last time I checked, you can vote on more than one issue at one time.
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I guess it's possible all or substantially all of the 649,346 people who signed the petition were conservatives . . . but I doubt it.
Same thing passed in Hawaii and the state is overwhelmingly liberal.
A number of blue states passed marriage amendments, like Oregon and Michigan.
And about 8 years ago, California (hardly a hotbed for conservatism) passed a state law that defined marriage as one-man-one-woman union.
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Sounds like it will pass. Needed over 600,000 signatures to make the ballot.
Gay Marriage Ban Makes Florida Ballot
Saturday, February 2, 2008 10:43 AM
TALLAHASSEE — A citizen initiative to ban gay marriage will be on the November ballot, the only one of more than 50 active petition drives that qualified Friday at the deadline for signature verification.
Hometown Democracy, which would have required voter approval of local growth plan changes, was the only other proposal that appeared to have a chance before the 5 p.m. deadline, but it missed the mark.
Officials, though, ran out of time before they could process all signatures due to a deluge of petitions submitted in the past month and the diversion of county election workers to preparing for and carrying out Tuesday’s presidential primary election.
It couldn’t immediately be determined if there were enough unprocessed signatures to have placed Hometown Democracy on the ballot.
Each proposed state constitutional amendment required 611,009 signatures. That’s 8 percent of Florida voters who cast ballots in the last presidential election. The 8 percent criteria also had to be met in at least 13 of Florida’s 25 congressional districts.
The same-sex marriage ban was certified with 649,346 signatures — 38,337 more than the minimum. Hometown Democracy, which was opposed by developers, businesses and many local officials, failed by 65,182 signatures.
Hometown Democracy’s backers said they will continue their drive and seek certification for the 2010 ballot possibly within the next couple months. Petitions are good for four years.
Secretary of State Kurt Browning rejected a request by the Florida Chapter of the Sierra Club, which supports Hometown Democracy, to delay ballot certification until all signatures submitted before Friday’s deadline are checked and counted if they are valid.
“The Florida Constitution requires ballot placement to occur on Feb. 1, and the Division of Elections has a rule that requires the state to base placement on the total number of signatures received by the state before 5 p.m.,” said Browning spokesman Sterling Ivey.
In a request to Browning and Gov. Charlie Crist, Sierra officials said a delay would be justified because of the primary, which moved up this year from March, as well as problems in the state’s electronic counting system and the verification process in some counties.
Opponents of Hometown Democracy, including developers and other business interests, jumped the gun and declared the proposal, which would require voter approval of changes in local growth plans, was dead, at least for this year.
Sponsors of the single-gender marriage ban announced in December they had obtained enough verified signatures. State officials then lowered the count due to a glitch in the Division of Elections’ electronic reporting system, which had double counted some signatures.
Browning shut down the system and stopped posting daily updates on division’s Web site. The last official posting on Jan. 14 showed the gay marriage amendment was 21,989 signatures short. Hometown Democracy needed 109,479 more signatures.
The next closest proposal as of Jan. 14 had less than half of the necessary signatures.
After finding out it was short, Florida4Marriage.org submitted 92,000 more signatures, said the group’s leader, Orlando lawyer John Stemberger.
Hometown Democracy submitted nearly 800,000 signatures, said the group’s leader, Palm Beach lawyer Lesley Blackner.
Some of Hometown Democracy’s opponents proposed an alternate growth management initiative, but Floridians for Smarter Growth acknowledged before the deadline that it didn’t have enough signatures. Its petitions, though, contributed to the glut that kept Hometown Democracy off the ballot.
Michael Caputo of Floridians for Smarter Growth said its backers, including the Florida Chamber of Commerce, have not yet decided whether to seek certification for the 2010 ballot.
Caputo acknowledged the campaign he’s managing was designed to keep Hometown Democracy off the ballot this year so opponents would have more time to organize for 2010.
Blackner said the law gives county supervisors of election too much discretion and some have given signature verification a low priority. She also blamed the Legislature’s decision to move Florida’s presidential primary from March to January.
Another anti-Hometown Democracy group called Save Our Constitution tried to get voters to revoke their signatures under a recently passed law.
It has submitted more than 10,000 revocations, said co-chairman Barney Bishop, chief executive of Associated Industries of Florida.
Mary Cooney, public service director for elections in Broward County, acknowledged the election has played a role, but she said temporary workers were hired to help with the verification. Staffers were unable, though, to keep up with the number of petitions coming in and some missed the deadline, she said.
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Gay_Marriage_Ban_florida/2008/02/02/69574.html
I was so afraid this wasn't going to make it. :) I received word that they were like 22,000 votes short a couple of weeks ago. I sent this information to my in-laws in FL and they passed on the word and were able to get more people to sign the petition. There was a pretty big push from the very powerful homosexual advocate groups to squash this amendment. I'll go on record and predict that the YES vote to ban gay marriage will be at least 60%.
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A number of blue states passed marriage amendments, like Oregon and Michigan.
And about 8 years ago, California (hardly a hotbed for conservatism) passed a state law that defined marriage as one-man-one-woman union.
Yep. I think these bans have passed in pretty much every state it has been up for a vote. Same sex marriage advocates spent a lot of money in Oregon--hardly a conservative bastion--and it passed there too (as you mentioned).
Some folks try and paint this as a conservative/Republican issue or a Christian issue, but it really isn't. The opposition to homosexual marriage and support for traditional marriage crosses party lines and you need a whole lot more than "Christian conservatives" to pass these laws and amendments.
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I was so afraid this wasn't going to make it. :) I received word that they were like 22,000 votes short a couple of weeks ago. I sent this information to my in-laws in FL and they passed on the word and were able to get more people to sign the petition. There was a pretty big push from the very powerful homosexual advocate groups to squash this amendment. I'll go on record and predict that the YES vote to ban gay marriage will be at least 60%.
You probably helped make a difference. I can understand why they don't want it on the ballot.
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just shows you what a small group of motivated zealots can do
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Yep. I think these bans have passed in pretty much every state it has been up for a vote. Same sex marriage advocates spent a lot of money in Oregon--hardly a conservative bastion--and it passed there too (as you mentioned).
Some folks try and paint this as a conservative/Republican issue or a Christian issue, but it really isn't. The opposition to homosexual marriage and support for traditional marriage crosses party lines and you need a whole lot more than "Christian conservatives" to pass these laws and amendments.
Yep! Whether you break it down by state or on the national level, this issue always goes in favor of heterosexual marriage.
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Yep. I think these bans have passed in pretty much every state it has been up for a vote. Same sex marriage advocates spent a lot of money in Oregon--hardly a conservative bastion--and it passed there too (as you mentioned).
Some folks try and paint this as a conservative/Republican issue or a Christian issue, but it really isn't. The opposition to homosexual marriage and support for traditional marriage crosses party lines and you need a whole lot more than "Christian conservatives" to pass these laws and amendments.
Actually, the only state in which such has not passed is Arizona. And many suspect that had to do with a number of things added to that amendment that voters thought might adversely affect them, as far as benefits go (I forget the exact details).
I was surprised about 4 years ago, when Missouri passed its amendment, despite the vote being moved up a few months early, with opponents of the amendments hoping for a low turnout and a majority of Democratic voters. Well, if I recall, 60% of the voters were Democrats and the amendment passed 71-29.
Of course, there's nothing stopping those who support gay "marriage" from starting petitons and getting them on the ballot. But, it appears that those supporters prefer letting the courts pull a "Massachusetts".
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just shows you what a small group of motivated zealots can do
you have no idea :P
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just shows you what a small group of motivated zealots can do
Which ones, the "blue" ones or the "red" ones? ;D
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you have no idea :P
I see the zealots on both sides
It's just an "issue" that I don't care about
I'm not gay and I don't give a shit is some other people are and want to get married
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Yep. I think these bans have passed in pretty much every state it has been up for a vote. Same sex marriage advocates spent a lot of money in Oregon--hardly a conservative bastion--and it passed there too (as you mentioned).
Some folks try and paint this as a conservative/Republican issue or a Christian issue, but it really isn't. The opposition to homosexual marriage and support for traditional marriage crosses party lines and you need a whole lot more than "Christian conservatives" to pass these laws and amendments.
Why the fuck do you care? What does gay marriage have to do with you?
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Which ones, the "blue" ones or the "red" ones? ;D
lol!!!
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Why the fuck do you care? What does gay marriage have to do with you?
You came out the blocks swinging at me, didn't ya? :o Pump the breaks, tough guy. :D
I care because I don't want my children to have to deal with it.
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I heard Beach Bum and Colossus_500 are secretly gay lovers
it's none of my business though
even if it's true I really don't care
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I heard Beach Bum and Colossus_500 are secretly gay lovers
it's none of my business though
even if it's true I really don't care
You're just jealous, because Beach didn't choose you. :P
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You're just jealous, because Beach didn't choose you. :P
seriously man, I don't care
besides I'm only a top
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Why the fuck do you care? What does gay marriage have to do with you?
I care about traditional marriage, along with millions of other Americans.
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Why the fuck do you care? What does gay marriage have to do with you?
Why do you care that he cares? What does gay marriage have to do with you?
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You're just jealous, because Beach didn't choose you. :P
lol. Leave it to Jethro to dumb down another thread. :D
(http://www.misterpants.com/01/images/maxbaerjr.jpg)
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I care about traditional marriage, along with millions of other Americans.
Bah, gay marriage is only an issue because of marriage entitlements. If there weren't any marriage tax breaks, entitlements, no one would care. Fuck all entitlements. Why should anyone get tax breaks for becoming a domestic slave?
Marriage is an outdated neo-lithic ritual that is no longer necessary. Divorce is statistically likely and thus marriage is a costly endeavour. Human relationships were not meant to last forever. People need to get over it.
Fuck marriage, be it hetero or homo, it's all the same, people craving entitlements and hand outs.
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lol. Leave it to Jethro to dumb down another thread. :D
(http://www.misterpants.com/01/images/maxbaerjr.jpg)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Question for anyone who is opposed to gays getting married
what's the bigger issue:
is it the fact that they are professing their love for someone of the same sex
or that you imagine their nasty gay sex and think it's "bad"
basically is the issue sex or love that you have a problem with?
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Bah, gay marriage is only an issue because of marriage entitlements. If there weren't any marriage tax breaks, entitlements, no one would care. Fuck all entitlements. Why should anyone get tax breaks for becoming a domestic slave?
Marriage is an outdated neo-lithic ritual that is no longer necessary. Divorce is statistically likely and thus marriage is a costly endeavour. Human relationships were not meant to last forever. People need to get over it.
Fuck marriage, be it hetero or homo, it's all the same, people craving entitlements and hand outs.
I take it you're single? lol
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
if you aren't a beach bum gimmick then you're in love with each other
and that DOESN"T mean that you suck each other cocks
no one is saying you want to suck each other
and even if you do I think most people don't really care
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Question for anyone who is opposed to gays getting married
what's the bigger issue:
is the fact that they are professing their love for someone of the same sex
or that you imagine their nasty gay sex and think it's "bad"
basically is the issue sex or love that you have a problem with?
Neither one of these cases are natural
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Neither one of these cases are natural
which one bothers you more
the love or the sex?
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Bah, gay marriage is only an issue because of marriage entitlements. If there weren't any marriage tax breaks, entitlements, no one would care. Fuck all entitlements. Why should anyone get tax breaks for becoming a domestic slave?
Marriage is an outdated neo-lithic ritual that is no longer necessary. Divorce is statistically likely and thus marriage is a costly endeavour. Human relationships were not meant to last forever. People need to get over it.
Fuck marriage, be it hetero or homo, it's all the same, people craving entitlements and hand outs.
I disagree. It's more about trying to further an agenda than about entitlements. If it were just about entitlements, people would be satisfied with reciprocal beneficiaries and domestic partnership laws. They essentially provide all of the benefits of marriage. It's really about forcing the state to legitimize what some people do in the bedroom.
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which one bothers you more
the love or the sex?
the two are not separated in my book.
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the two are not separated in my book.
so if people who identified themselves as gay didn't have sex then you would be ok with it?
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I disagree. It's more about trying to further an agenda than about entitlements. If it were just about entitlements, people would be satisfied with reciprocal beneficiaries and domestic partnership laws. They essentially provide all of the benefits of marriage. It's really about forcing the state to legitimize what some people do in the bedroom.
Well, the state 'legitimises' what you do when you stick your dick in your wife's pussy so why is it any different if some guy sticks his dick in his 'husband's' arse?
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the two are not separated in my book.
My name is Colossus and I believe the world is 6000 years old. ::)
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My name is Colossus and I believe the world is 6000 years old. ::)
You hate me, don't you? :P
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Well, the state 'legitimises' what you do when you stick your dick in your wife's pussy so why is it any different if some guy sticks his dick in his 'husband's' arse?
You're dropping the entitlement angle then?
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My name is Colossus and I believe the world is 6000 years old. ::)
Dude. lol. Wrong board. Are you obsessed with religion?
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Bah, gay marriage is only an issue because of marriage entitlements. If there weren't any marriage tax breaks, entitlements, no one would care. Fuck all entitlements. Why should anyone get tax breaks for becoming a domestic slave?
Marriage is an outdated neo-lithic ritual that is no longer necessary. Divorce is statistically likely and thus marriage is a costly endeavour. Human relationships were not meant to last forever. People need to get over it.
Fuck marriage, be it hetero or homo, it's all the same, people craving entitlements and hand outs.
Then start a petiton to ban marriage of all types!!!
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Dude/Bum/Colossus,
what if gays agreed to get married but then also agreed never to have that nasty gay sex that you spend so much time thinking about
would that work for you?
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Dude. lol. Wrong board. Are you obsessed with religion?
No, but a comment like his likely stems from Fundy status.
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What exactly is stopping supporters of gay "marriage" from starting grass-roots petitons to get it to the ballot and have people vote for it?
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Then start a petiton to ban marriage of all types!!!
Why? That's just my opinion. I just don't want people to get entitlements for it, be it man, woman or sheep. People are free to do what they want but not expect special benefits from the government.
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Bah, gay marriage is only an issue because of marriage entitlements. If there weren't any marriage tax breaks, entitlements, no one would care. Fuck all entitlements. Why should anyone get tax breaks for becoming a domestic slave?
Marriage is an outdated neo-lithic ritual that is no longer necessary. Divorce is statistically likely and thus marriage is a costly endeavour. Human relationships were not meant to last forever. People need to get over it.
Fuck marriage, be it hetero or homo, it's all the same, people craving entitlements and hand outs.
ding ding ding
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Dude/Bum/Colossus,
what if gays agreed to get married but then also agreed never to have that nasty gay sex that you spend so much time thinking about
would that work for you?
I don't know all of your different gimmicks, so I'll just talk the Straw Man profile...
YOU'RE actually the one that's continually bringing up the nasty sex, which leads me to think that it's actually how YOU see it.
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Why? That's just my opinion. I just don't want people to get entitlements for it, be it man, woman or sheep. People are free to do what they want but not expect special benefits from the government.
Well, our government happens to do that for married couples. And, any who play by the one-man-one-woman rules can get them, including you.
If it bugs you that much, get the paperwork out and start a petiton to ban marriage (or at least, marriage entitlements).
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I don't know all of your different gimmicks, so I'll just talk the Straw Man profile...
YOU'RE actually the one that's continually bringing up the nasty sex, which leads me to think that it's actually how YOU see it.
I just think it is weird why what people do in the privacy of their own homes would bother you.
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Well, our government happens to do that for married couples. And, any who play by the one-man-one-woman rules can get them, including you.
If it bugs you that much, get the paperwork out and start a petiton to ban marriage (or at least, marriage entitlements).
Bloody good idea.
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ding ding ding
That's why we have this thing called DEMOCRACY, where more people than just the two of you (and like-minded folk) can decide what is or isn't necessary or outdated.
If it bugs you that much, you can join Trapezkerl and crusade to get a ban on marriage put on the ballot of the state in which you reside (assuming you live in the USA).
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I don't know all of your different gimmicks, so I'll just talk the Straw Man profile...
YOU'RE actually the one that's continually bringing up the nasty sex, which leads me to think that it's actually how YOU see it.
I have no gimmicks
I also have no problem with nasty sex
that seems to be your problem
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I just think it is weird why what people do in the privacy of their own homes would bother you.
No more weirder than why what he does (or would do) in the privacy of the ballot box would bother you.
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I'm outta here, fellas. Gotta teach Sunday school in the a.m. Sleep well, gents. :)
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That's why we have this thing called DEMOCRACY, where more people than just the two of you (and like-minded folk) can decide what is or isn't necessary or outdated.
If it bugs you that much, you can join Trapezkerl and crusade to get a ban on marriage put on the ballot of the state in which you reside (assuming you live in the USA).
Democracy=mob rule in a sports jacket.
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No more weirder than why what he does (or would do) in the privacy of the ballot box would bother you.
are you saying some people are sticking the ballot up their ass?
if so
that does kind of bother me
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I'm outta here, fellas. Gotta teach Sunday school in the a.m. Sleep well, gents. :)
My name is Colossus and I believe the world is 6000 years old.
I rest my case. ::)
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That's why we have this thing called DEMOCRACY, where more people than just the two of you (and like-minded folk) can decide what is or isn't necessary or outdated.
If it bugs you that much, you can join Trapezkerl and crusade to get a ban on marriage put on the ballot of the state in which you reside (assuming you live in the USA).
I completely agree. Millions of people in numerous states believe so strongly in traditional marriage that they have proposed laws and amendments to preserve it and they have passed, usually by overwhelming margins. If enough people want homosexual marriage, they will say so at the ballot box. Unless you live in Massachusetts, in which case a few men in black robes will make the decision.
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My name is Colossus and I believe the world is 6000 years old.
I rest my case. ::)
::)
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are you saying some people are sticking the ballot up their ass?
if so
that does kind of bother me
Try that again!!! It's your being bothered by Colossus voting on such an issue (and that happens in a ballot box).
Democracy=mob rule in a sports jacket.
That's the way we like in the USA. So, we'll keep it that way, if you don't mind....or even if you do.
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I'm outta here, fellas. Gotta teach Sunday school in the a.m. Sleep well, gents. :)
Hmm, Colosussus_500 seems to brag in the same pathetic way as Beach Bum
I'm not saying they're gay for each other because maybe it's just DEEP mutual respect
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::)
My name is Beach Bum and I too believe the following:
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z25/Todesfick/l_99e9b56709a01c818e4693fa4e39a092.jpg)
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I completely agree. Millions of people in numerous states believe so strongly in traditional marriage that they have proposed laws and amendments to preserve it and they have passed, usually by overwhelming margins. If enough people want homosexual marriage, they will say so at the ballot box. Unless you live in Massachusetts, in which case a few men in black robes will make the decision.
....as well as pick and choose when to enforce their own state's constitution.
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Try that again!!! It's your being bothered by Colossus voting on such an issue (and that happens in a ballot box).
That's the way we like in the USA. So, we'll keep it that way, if you don't mind....or even if you do.
like I said previously
I see zealots on both sides
this is a fake issue
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My name is Beach Bum and I too believe the following:
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z25/Todesfick/l_99e9b56709a01c818e4693fa4e39a092.jpg)
::)::) Quit being a troll.
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Try that again!!! It's your being bothered by Colossus voting on such an issue (and that happens in a ballot box).
That's the way we like in the USA. So, we'll keep it that way, if you don't mind....or even if you do.
The USA was meant to be a Republic, not a democracy.
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like I said previously
I see zealots on both sides
this is a fake issue
Tell that to the voters in Florida.
The USA was meant to be a Republic, not a democracy.
It's a Democratic Republic. And how sweeeeeeeeeeet it is!!!!!
The key is the keeping a delicate balance, so that the many don't rule the few and the few don't rule the many!!
In other words, no "mob rule" or "snob rule"
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::)::) Quit being a troll.
Funny when somone puts your beliefs in perspective, eh?
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....as well as pick and choose when to enforce their own state's constitution.
True. Then new Governor Patrick worked pretty hard to keep the people from voting on the issue too.
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Funny when somone puts your beliefs in perspective, eh?
Yep, like two big rocks, smashing together 5-billion years ago, making a pile of goo, that acidentally and randomly turned into this critter, which acidentally/randomly turned into that critter, etc., etc., etc.......until, somehow, someway (with no divine guidance or direction, of course), we get....MAN!!!
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Tell that to the voters in Florida.
It's a Democratic Republic. And how sweeeeeeeeeeet it is!!!!!
The key is the keeping a delicate balance, so that the many don't rule the few and the few don't rule the many!!
In other words, no "mob rule" or "snob rule"
No mob rule? Bah, why do you have people trying to teach Creationism as science in Kansas classrooms?
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Funny when somone puts your beliefs in perspective, eh?
Yawn.
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Tell that to the voters in Florida.
It's a Democratic Republic. And how sweeeeeeeeeeet it is!!!!!
The key is the keeping a delicate balance, so that the many don't rule the few and the few don't rule the many!!
In other words, no "mob rule" or "snob rule"
this "issue" exist to keep you pre-occuppied and distracted
most people just don't care
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this "issue" exist to keep you pre-occuppied and distracted
most people just don't care
"Pre-occupied" and "distracted" from what? This may come as a surprise to you. But, people can actually vote on multiple issues, come election day. It took all of FIVE MINUTES for me to download the form and sign it (and that's because my computer's slow). Heck, I left the thing on my desk for nearly a week, before I actually mailed it. I don't that took a huge chunk out of my life.
If "most people don't care", then "most people" won't vote on the matter (or will simply put "Yes" or "No" just to fill in the space) and move forward to their issue of choice.
Again, this idea by some that those who vote on this issue do so, at the expense of other issues, is just silly.
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"Pre-occupied" and "distracted" from what? This may come as a surprise to you. But, people can actually vote on multiple issues, come election day. It took all of FIVE MINUTES for me to download the form and sign it (and that's because my computer's slow). Heck, I left the thing on my desk for nearly a week, before I actually mailed it. I don't that took a huge chunk out of my life.
If "most people don't care", then "most people" won't vote on the matter (or will simply put "Yes" or "No" just to fill in the space) and move forward to their issue of choice.
Again, this idea by some that those who vote on this issue do so, at the expense of other issues, is just silly.
yeah I'm spending hours weighing the pro's and con's of the 4 indian gaming initiatives on the ballot
it takes very few people to get an initiave on the ballot
money helps
dude, the threat from gay marriage is a clear and present danger
seriously
no joke
forget what I said before
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No mob rule? Bah, why do you have people trying to teach Creationism as science in Kansas classrooms?
First of all, get your story straight. There is no teaching Creationism as science. The idea is to present two ideas as to the ORIGIN of life on this planet. Show the evidence, supporting both, and let the kids make an educated decision as to which is more sound for themselves.
That's the old "critical thinking" stuff, which atheists seem to think is used solely when people reject their religious belief.
Back to the issue at hand, we don't have mob rule or snob rule, especially when it comes to the latter. Our system is designed so that a bunch of stuck-up elitist and "enlightened" folks don't dictate policy to us, without our say-so. The system is far from perfect (Massachusetts is a prime example of that).
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That's why we have this thing called DEMOCRACY, where more people than just the two of you (and like-minded folk) can decide what is or isn't necessary or outdated.
If it bugs you that much, you can join Trapezkerl and crusade to get a ban on marriage put on the ballot of the state in which you reside (assuming you live in the USA).
Dont' get your underware in a bunch. I'm not enforcing my beliefs on anyone, just expressing an opinion.
I don't go out of my way to ban things I disagree with if they don't hurt me or anyone else and I don't get why people get all bent out of shape about gays wanting to get married. It's rediculous.
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yeah I'm spending hours weighing the pro's and con's of the 4 indian gaming initiatives on the ballot
it takes very few people to get an initiave on the ballot
money helps
dude, the threat from gay marriage is a clear and present danger
seriously
no joke
forget what I said before
Whether you think there's a "clear and present danger" or not has no bearing on the issue. You can vote on it or skip it. Doing the former doesn't mean that particular issue is the dominant focus of your life or voting priorities.
Plenty of people don't make minimum wages. That doesn't mean that their voting on minimum wages law equates to that law being their sole (or major) focus in their political spectrum.
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Dont' get your underware in a bunch. I'm not enforcing my beliefs on anyone, just expressing an opinion.
I don't go out of my way to ban things I disagree with if they don't hurt me or anyone else and I don't get why people get all bent out of shape about gays wanting to get married. It's rediculous.
And, I don't get why people get all bent out of shape about those who want to vote on marriage amendments.
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First of all, get your story straight. There is no teaching Creationism as science. The idea is to present two ideas as to the ORIGIN of life on this planet. Show the evidence, supporting both, and let the kids make an educated decision as to which is more sound for themselves.
That's the old "critical thinking" stuff, which atheists seem to think is used solely when people reject their religious belief.
Back to the issue at hand, we don't have mob rule or snob rule, especially when it comes to the latter. Our system is designed so that a bunch of stuck-up elitist and "enlightened" folks don't dictate policy to us, without our say-so. The system is far from perfect (Massachusetts is a prime example of that).
please try to understand
I have no problem with reliigious belief in general
I care more about the actions people take based on their beliefs
most actions don't really bother me that much or have any impact on freedom to conduct my life
about gays - I say most people don't really care
regarding creationism, I have no problem teaching that in school along side all the other creation myths of all the religions we can find. We can even call this a class about religion
and then we can teach our, as of yet, best science in science class
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And, I don't get why people get all bent out of shape about those who want to vote on marriage amendments.
What a waste of energy, trying to exclude a group from being able to legally marry each other of all things. ::)Your priorities are fucked up my friend but thats ok, cause in a great America we must be tolerant of stupid people as well.
Is the next "priority" trying to stop women from wearing pants?
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What a waste of energy, trying to exclude a group from being able to legally marry each other of all things. ::)Your priorities are fucked up my friend but thats ok, cause in a great America we must be tolerant of stupid people as well.
Is the next "priority" trying to stop women from wearing pants?
Congress and Bill Clinton believed it was important to preserve traditional marriage. The Defense of Marriage bill was "passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate and a vote of 342-67" and then signed by Clinton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
Numerous other amendments have passed in states all across the country by comfortable margins. Preserving traditional marriage is clearly something the majority of the country wants to do.
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Yep, like two big rocks, smashing together 5-billion years ago, making a pile of goo, that acidentally and randomly turned into this critter, which acidentally/randomly turned into that critter, etc., etc., etc.......until, somehow, someway (with no divine guidance or direction, of course), we get....MAN!!!
Evolution is not random. If you understood it you wouldn't be making these ignorant statements.
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Congress and Bill Clinton believed it was important to preserve traditional marriage. The Defense of Marriage bill was "passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate and a vote of 342-67" and then signed by Clinton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
Numerous other amendments have passed in states all across the country by comfortable margins. Preserving traditional marriage is clearly something the majority of the country wants to do.
I have to agree... While I think it's silly and may one day be seen similarly to how states passed segregation laws in the middle part of the 20th century, I do have to say that currently the majority of voters do not want, for whatever reason, gay marriages.
Whether or not it truly affects them is not the issue.
The issue is that issues in this country are decide (or rather should be decided) by a majority rules vote.
That is simply how the democratic process works... We are the minority and until that changes, the majority will get their way.
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sorry I forgot
what am I supposed to be afraid about if gay people can get married?
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sorry I forgot
what am I supposed to be afraid about if gay people can get married?
:o
SIN
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I have to agree... While I think it's silly and may one day be seen similarly to how states passed segregation laws in the middle part of the 20th century, I do have to say that currently the majority of voters do not want, for whatever reason, gay marriages.
Whether or not it truly affects them is not the issue.
The issue is that issues in this country are decide (or rather should be decided) by a majority rules vote.
That is simply how the democratic process works... We are the minority and until that changes, the majority will get their way.
Yes. Well said. I actually think that the tide will probably turn one day and that it's only a matter of time before we have homosexual marriage. But that decision is up to the people, who should decide the issue at the ballot box.
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Yes. Well said. I actually think that the tide will probably turn one day and that it's only a matter of time before we have homosexual marriage. But that decision is up to the people, who should decide the issue at the ballot box.
hey bum, what do you think might happen if the tide turns?
my guess would be absolutely nothing
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hey bum, what do you think might happen if the tide turns?
my guess would be absolutely nothing
I think that similarly to segregation... it will one day change and homosexuality will be deemed as normal as any other thing, and marriages in this country will be allowed for all.
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I think that similarly to segregation... it will one day change and homosexuality will be deemed as normal as any other thing, and marriages in this country will be allowed for all.
think of how this could stimulate the economy
half of all marriages end in failure
this could be a boon to divorce lawyers and in extension the overall economy
shit, I think we could even afford another tax cut
come on
don't you love money more than you hate gays
think about it
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think of how this could stimulate the economy
half of all marriages end in failure
this could be a boon to divorce lawyers and in extension the overall economy
shit, I think we could even afford another tax cut
come on
don't you love money more than you hate gays
think about it
I don't hate gays at all... As I said previously, I think it's silly.
I have no problem with homosexuality or homosexuals getting married at all.
I too have said it would be good for the government coffers. Marriage Licenses, divorces, the whole bit... it's a win / win.
I've also said previously that I think every gay man should have an opportunity to be as miserable as I was.
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I don't hate gays at all... As I said previously, I think it's silly.
I have no problem with homosexuality or homosexuals getting married at all.
I too have said it would be good for the government coffers. Marriage Licenses, divorces, the whole bit... it's a win / win.
I've also said previously that I think every gay man should have an opportunity to be as miserable as I was.
sorry, I wasn't trying to give you shit
I dont hate gays and I like money so by default I love money more than I hate gays
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What about a man marrying a sheep?
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What about a man marrying a sheep?
That's a straw man question.
Sheep have no ability to communicate a desire, nor do they understand human wants or needs.
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That's a straw man question.
Sheep have no ability to communicate a desire, nor do they understand human wants or needs.
No straw man question. In some cultures people marry dogs and other animals...
Ever been to New Zealand? ;D
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No straw man question. In some cultures people marry dogs and other animals...
Ever been to New Zealand? ;D
I have never had the pleasure... No.
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I have never had the pleasure... No.
What about 1st cousin marriages?
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What about 1st cousin marriages?
Again, I'm afraid I have to say no... My family tree does in fact fork.
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I have to agree... While I think it's silly and may one day be seen similarly to how states passed segregation laws in the middle part of the 20th century, I do have to say that currently the majority of voters do not want, for whatever reason, gay marriages.
Whether or not it truly affects them is not the issue.
The issue is that issues in this country are decide (or rather should be decided) by a majority rules vote.
That is simply how the democratic process works... We are the minority and until that changes, the majority will get their way.
But where the fuck does it end?
lets put on a ballot all disabled people should be killed
to conserve energy only one car per household
only 2 kids per family
lights out after 10:00pm
We have seriously got to stop this shit.
Yeah we have more freedom than a lot of nations but that is deteriorating quickly. What happened to people banding together to fight this nonsense like they did in the late 60's?
I wish this country was divided into at the very least 2 groups. Maybe even more. Left on the West Coast and Right on East. That would be a good start.
This democratic process bullshit is a joke. I don't recall citizens having a vote to go to war. Or a vote to increase the elected govt officials raises. They pick and chose what warrants a vote. Oh yeah and if it fails the first time...well fuck it...then lets put it on a ballot again. ::)
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Colossus, does it help you sleep better at night knowing that two lesbians in another state whom you'll never meet and who live together, can't get a piece of paper from city hall? ???
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But where the fuck does it end?
lets put on a ballot all disabled people should be killed
to conserve energy only one car per household
only 2 kids per family
lights out after 10:00pm
We have seriously got to stop this shit.
Yeah we have more freedom than a lot of nations but that is deteriorating quickly. What happened to people banding together to fight this nonsense like they did in the late 60's?
I wish this country was divided into at the very least 2 groups. Maybe even more. Left on the West Coast and Right on East. That would be a good start.
This democratic process bullshit is a joke. I don't recall citizens having a vote to go to war. Or a vote to increase the elected govt officials raises. They pick and chose what warrants a vote. Oh yeah and if it fails the first time...well fuck it...then lets put it on a ballot again. ::)
It doesn't end... That's the point.
People progress... What is important to one generation is not to the next. That's the way the world works.
Like I said, there used to be segregation, now there is not... people progress.
The world is an ever changing place and so are the ideals that people have.
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But where the fuck does it end?
lets put on a ballot all disabled people should be killed
to conserve energy only one car per household
only 2 kids per family
lights out after 10:00pm
We have seriously got to stop this shit.
Yeah we have more freedom than a lot of nations but that is deteriorating quickly. What happened to people banding together to fight this nonsense like they did in the late 60's?
I wish this country was divided into at the very least 2 groups. Maybe even more. Left on the West Coast and Right on East. That would be a good start.
This democratic process bullshit is a joke. I don't recall citizens having a vote to go to war. Or a vote to increase the elected govt officials raises. They pick and chose what warrants a vote. Oh yeah and if it fails the first time...well fuck it...then lets put it on a ballot again. ::)
It's all about Jebus and Valium!
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It doesn't end... That's the point.
People progress... What is important to one generation is not to the next. That's the way the world works.
Like I said, there used to be segregation, now there is not... people progress.
The world is an ever changing place and so are the ideals that people have.
Yes, let us finallly legalise it for the sheep!