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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: TrueGrit on June 26, 2008, 06:34:45 AM
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Who would win? Could Ali live with this beast in the early rounds?
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Ali by late round knockout.
Next!
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Ali was able to take the bombs from Foreman at his peak...
but then again, Foreman claims he was drugged before the fight :-\
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Ali, though past his prime, did well against Foreman who was pretty much the Tyson of his era. Wasn't a pretty fight but Ali showed the world he was the most brilliant boxer out there even though he was no longer the "best" boxer. I think that in his prime he could have handled Tyson (though Tyson was great as long as he was trained by Kevin Rooney).
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Ali was able to take the bombs from Foreman at his peak...
but then again, Foreman claims he was drugged before the fight :-\
Hard to say. Ali was a boxer and tyson was a fighter. Ali would probably end up frustrating Tyson like Holyfield did and make him snap.
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If you watch the first Ali/Liston fight for example, you'll see that, even by today's standards, Ali had uncanny velocity for a heavyweight and that he knew how to use his jab against smaller opponents to keep them at distance. He would have done the same against Tyson probably. But Tyson was incredibly fast too for a heavywiehgt during his first years, and at close range, he could land punches as fast as a middleweight.
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I am sure Ali could handle Tyson just past his best..but at his absolute brutal best , I just can't makes up my mind.
Ali:
Tyson:
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Ali fought the "Tysons" of era--Liston, Foreman, Frazier--and beat them all. It took more than a steel jaw and killer left hook to beat Ali.
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We're talking about two very different boxers, different in style, physique, technic and power. But the two have something in common. Neither boxed like classic heavyweights, Tyson because he had a different physqiue (much shorter than your average heavyweight, with shorter limbs) and Ali because his technic was as good as the best cruiserweights. And both were much faster also.
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We're talking about two very different boxers, different in style, physique, technic and power. But the two have something in common. Neither boxed like classic heavyweights, Tyson because he had a different physqiue (much shorter than your average heavyweight, with shorter limbs) and Ali because his technic was as good as the best cruiserweights. And both were much faster also.
Good analysis. Would love to have seen these two box at their respective peaks.
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We're talking about two very different boxers, different in style, physique, technic and power. But the two have something in common. Neither boxed like classic heavyweights, Tyson because he had a different physqiue (much shorter than your average heavyweight, with shorter limbs) and Ali because his technic was as good as the best cruiserweights. And both were much faster also.
Ali showed and proved he could take a punch and his jab would give Mike some problems. Frazier was a tough little bastard and fought kind of like Mike. Ali I think could take Mike. He was very smart in the ring. I would have loved to see a press conference with Mike and Ali. That would be one fun time. But then again I kicked Ali's ass especially when it came down to wrestling ;D
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I would go with tyson he was much stronger than Joe, could drop you with either hand left or right serious serious punching power. If Joe was able to beat Ali and take him to the breaking point and a tyson in his prime with no fear would get Ali between rounds 4 threw 6. It would take him 2 or the 3 rounds to figure out how to by pass Alis jab & after that the party would be over. Just my to cents. But hey all we can do is guess and wish we could see that.
Peace!
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Are you kidding me? Tyson in his prime would mop the floor with Ali. He was a fucking killer in his hey day. Check out some of his earlier fights.
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Are you kidding me? Tyson in his prime would mop the floor with Ali. He was a fucking killer in his hey day. Check out some of his earlier fights.
Yea good analogy, comparing the guys Tyson fought early with Ali. ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Are you kidding me? Tyson in his prime would mop the floor with Ali. He was a fucking killer in his hey day. Check out some of his earlier fights.
I agree 100% with this. Doesn't matter what skill, technique, or strategy others brought to the ring, in the end after 5 or 6 jabs Mike just attacked people, and there was nothing you could do to stop. Not one thing.
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The guy who is getting demolished by Tyson in this video beat Ali, although it was well past Ali's prime, but still...first round KO
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Yea good analogy, comparing the guys Tyson fought early with Ali. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Tyson would have mopped the floor with Frazier and Forman too. Ali was phenomenal and his skill was extra ordinary but Tyson in his prime would KO the whole lot of them in one hook. The guy was a true tough guy and his punching power was very disturbing. He used to punch holes in walls before his fights to let out some of his nervousness for God sake.
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Tyson would have mopped the floor with Frazier and Forman too. Ali was phenomenal and his skill was extra ordinary but Tyson in his prime would KO the whole lot of them in one hook. The guy was a true tough guy and his punching power was very disturbing. He used to punch holes in walls before his fights to let out some of his nervousness for God sake.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH THAT BRUTE
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SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH THAT BRUTE
Sounds like you are in love with me. Why are you following me around, jackass?
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Frequent Question.
I think Ali/Frazier may give some insight, although I'm well aware that the Ali of 1971 was not the Ali of 1966 - his prime best (check
out his fight against Cleveland Williams).
Joe Frazier had similar physiques and fighting styles, but there are some clear differences:
1.) Tyson had KO punching power in both hands, plus a devasting upper-cut, which Frazier didn't have. He was basically a one-punch
fighter (his left hook is primary weapon), and even when he hit you, he did not have one-punch KO power like Tyson
2.) Frazier didn't have Tyson's speed and was a slow starter. He really didn't get going until about the 4th round, whereas with Tyson, that's when he would typically wear out.
3.) Frazier's heart and punch output was superior to Tyson's. Frazier was a punching machine and would
throw punches for 15 rounds, even though he may hit a lot of arm and hip shots, those kind of shots worn down his opponents in later rounds.
4.) As for chins, I think they were similar. Frazier took a lot of shots from Ali, but Ali was not the hardest puncher, and when he did get in the ring with a hard puncher like Foreman, he didn't last 2 rounds. Tyson took big shots from Douglass, Ruddock, and Lennox, but outside of Ruddock, I wouldn't say the other 2 were bone crushers.
As for Ali, his biggest weakness - even at his prime was that he dropped his right hand and could be caught with a left hook. He showed this as an amateur and as a pro against the likes of Henry Cooper - a sub 200lb HW who almost knocked him out early in his career. The left hook was a primary weapon of Frazier and Tyson, and I think Tyson would be in a better position to use his, because Ali would have to respect his other punches, whereas Ali only had to fear Frazier's left.
As for Ali taking Foreman's shots, if you look at that fight, he barely connected. He threw a lot at the body, but he barely got a clean shot because Ali leaned into those loose ropes. Plus Foreman throw long heavy punches where he needed to have room in order to get the full effect. Tyson and Frazier were much better at throwing devastating punches at close range. If you gave Frazier and Tyson those same opportunities to land body punches, I do not believe he could have survived, which is why I think Ali would not have fought the "rope-a-dope" against Tyson. His best chance would have been to fight him as he did Liston - moving around, jabbing, quick combo's, in and out.
The Verdict: Tyson slightly. It's like hitting the lottery though. If he lands a big shot, then it's over - but the big question is "if"?
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I can see Ali winning a wide UD, i think he could take Tysons best shots.
Def the best 2 heavys of all time tho.
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Are you kidding me? Tyson in his prime would mop the floor with Ali. He was a fucking killer in his hey day. Check out some of his earlier fights.
They were all pussies. As soon as he met anyone worth a shit, he lost.
Ali fought the best of the best, period.
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You need to remember all the mind games Ali brought to the table. He would have Tyson beat before the fight, just like he had Foreman beat before the fight.
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You need to remember all the mind games Ali brought to the table. He would have Tyson beat before the fight, just like he had Foreman beat before the fight.
I think the trick there would be for Ali to survive the first two rounds. That's when Tyson was deadly. After that, he'd be out of gas. But Tyson also brought mind games to the ring. He was king when it came down to intimidation.
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I think the trick there would be for Ali to survive the first two rounds. That's when Tyson was deadly. After that, he'd be out of gas. But Tyson also brought mind games to the ring. He was king when it came down to intimidation.
I'm going to call you the " what if guy " hahahahahaha
cee lo " wish I was a little bit taller " :D
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I'm going to call you the " what if guy " hahahahahaha
cee lo " wish I was a little bit taller " :D
Ah, my stalker is back...what if....what "if" you actually put on some size?
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Ah, my stalker is back...what if....what "if" you actually put on some size?
no need for it bro...i'm fine..you are the one who is trying to compensate for your shortcomings. :D
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Tyson would have mopped the floor with Frazier and Forman too. Ali was phenomenal and his skill was extra ordinary but Tyson in his prime would KO the whole lot of them in one hook. The guy was a true tough guy and his punching power was very disturbing. He used to punch holes in walls before his fights to let out some of his nervousness for God sake.
So you are saying since Tyson hit wall and put holes in it (the didn't hit back and had no defense) then he would kill Ali. I like Mike but Ali had brains, speed and ring savoy. Mike was a brawler. If Tyson was so good then why couldn't he beat Holyfield or even come close. And Ali is way better than Holyfield. Plus, he couldn't even beat an old friend of mine to get into the Olympics. Mike was good and very tough but nothing like Ali,
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no need for it bro...i'm fine..you are the one who is trying to compensate for your shortcomings. :D
Your fine alright. Go have a nap and dream of what it would be like to actually look good, fucking gypsy.
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They were all pussies. As soon as he met anyone worth a shit, he lost.
Ali fought the best of the best, period.
I guess you d call them all pussies to their face "chainsaw" ::)
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So you are saying since Tyson hit wall and put holes in it (the didn't hit back and had no defense) then he would kill Ali. I like Mike but Ali had brains, speed and ring savoy. Mike was a brawler. If Tyson was so good then why couldn't he beat Holyfield or even come close. And Ali is way better than Holyfield. Plus, he couldn't even beat an old friend of mine to get into the Olympics. Mike was good and very tough but nothing like Ali,
I'll re-phrase,
What I meant was Mike Tyson was a nut job and he had the killer mentality. He was a skilled boxer and more then what people give him credit for. Don't forget, when he fought Holyfield and Lewis it was after a 3 year lay off from the sport as he was in prison and had his own personal problems. But watch his early fights before prison. he massacred everything and everyone in his path. He's knocked the shit out of boxers a foot taller then him clear across the ring. Most of his fights were all 1st round ko's.
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So you are saying since Tyson hit wall and put holes in it (the didn't hit back and had no defense) then he would kill Ali. I like Mike but Ali had brains, speed and ring savoy. Mike was a brawler. If Tyson was so good then why couldn't he beat Holyfield or even come close. And Ali is way better than Holyfield. Plus, he couldn't even beat an old friend of mine to get into the Olympics. Mike was good and very tough but nothing like Ali,
Onlyme, you ve met a lot of people over the years, strongmen, fighters, etc. WHo would you says the toughest man you ve ever met?
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Any of you guys ever see Ali fight?
He would have killed Tyson in no time flat.
He took big shots from Frazier,Foreman,Liston,Ken Norton and a slew of other hard puchers,and still beat them............some on several occasions.
Dude was faster than fast,strong,and had unreal handspeed with insane footwork.
Tyson beat a lot of bums in less than a minute early in his career...............lat er when he worked his way up to better opponents,he didn`t look anywhere near as good as he did in his earlier fights.
I thought Tyson was the shit too,but lets be real here............gotta` compare opponents over the careeer and Ali proved himself time and time again against the best.
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as good as ali was, i dont think anyones beating a early 20's tyson, he was just the total boxer/fighter,,, id even argue he had the faster hands of the two
tyson like most brilliant and tallented people has somthing missing, a few screws loose, same as deago marridonna in football as an example.. u cant compare early tyson with the shell that turned up after prison
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as good as ali was, i dont think anyones beating a early 20's tyson, he was just the total boxer/fighter,,, id even argue he had the faster hands of the two
tyson like most brilliant and tallented people has somthing missing, a few screws loose, same as deago marridonna in football as an example.. u cant compare early tyson with the shell that turned up after prison
There is your XFACTOR. No way Ali gets past that. No matter how fast, what strategy, taunting, whatever, Tyson was insane and unstopable at the same time.
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Any of you guys ever see Ali fight?
He would have killed Tyson in no time flat.
He took big shots from Frazier,Foreman,Liston,Ken Norton and a slew of other hard puchers,and still beat them............some on several occasions.
Dude was faster than fast,strong,and had unreal handspeed with insane footwork.
Tyson beat a lot of bums in less than a minute early in his career...............lat er when he worked his way up to better opponents,he didn`t look anywhere near as good as he did in his earlier fights.
I thought Tyson was the shit too,but lets be real here............gotta` compare opponents over the careeer and Ali proved himself time and time again against the best.
I dunno Wes...
Ali took shots from Frazier and Forman, but if he tried to rope a dope with Tyson he would be on a stretcher. No one punched like Tyson did.
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Ali if he could get past the first 4 rounds which he should np
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You don't really follow boxing my friend. I'm not a Tyson fan. I enjoy the elegance of the sport. No way, no how Liston, Foreman, and no way Frazier would make it out of two rounds with a 21 year old Mike Tyson. It's not even a debate. Tysons punches were so accurate and absolutely punishing. Look what Iron Mike did to Marvis Frazier!
ahh yeh because Marvis Frazier can be compared to someone like Joe Frazier or George Foreman ::)
Iron Mike fought in a weak era when he was at his peak, he never fought anyone of the caliber of Holyfield, Lewis, Foreman or Ali.
The only guys he beat who were respectable were Holmes (old) and a scared shitless Spinks.
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Erm Biggs - olympic gold medalist, Tubbs - very skilled, Tucker - unbeaten at the time.
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ahh yeh because Marvis Frazier can be compared to someone like Joe Frazier or George Foreman ::)
Iron Mike fought in a weak era when he was at his peak, he never fought anyone of the caliber of Holyfield, Lewis, Foreman or Ali.
The only guys he beat who were respectable were Holmes (old) and a scared shitless Spinks.
Disagree. In Tyson's prime, he would have layed out all the above mentioned on a stretcher and still would have had time for a few beers.
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Disagree. In Tyson's prime, he would have layed out all the above mentioned on a stretcher and still would have had time for a few beers.
haha yeh sure......
The guy knocks over a few tomato cans and all of a sudden he's god.
The moment someone causes resistance with a good chin its over for Mike, Lewis would wipe the floor with him. Greatest heavyweight of his era
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what do you mean he doesnt know what later rounds are he went 12 strong rounds with razor ruddick and was walking threw his jabs and that weird upper cut. he was eating those and kept coming. razor wasnt a push over either he had some serious knock out power to and tyson was walking threw them. hes been in long fights and if you ask me he wanted them to be long like mitch green fight if he wasnt paying so much attention to robin big ass head he would have not went 12 with him. when tyson engine gets fully going its a WRAP for any man who stands in his way. thats a prime young hungry tyson something to prove tyson. all those guys tried holding jabbing running but he wax all of them. tyson before jail and after is too different tysons. and ESPECIALLY when he sighed with don king. so that later round stuff doesnt mean a thing. like he said they all got plans on how to beat me until i hit them.
Peace!
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what do you mean he doesnt know what later rounds are he went 12 strong rounds with razor ruddick and was walking threw his jabs and that weird upper cut. he was eating those and kept coming. razor wasnt a push over either he had some serious knock out power to and tyson was walking threw them. hes been in long fights and if you ask me he wanted them to be long like mitch green fight if he wasnt paying so much attention to robin big ass head he would have not went 12 with him. when tyson engine gets fully going its a WRAP for any man who stands in his way. thats a prime young hungry tyson something to prove tyson. all those guys tried holding jabbing running but he wax all of them. tyson before jail and after is too different tysons. and ESPECIALLY when he sighed with don king. so that later round stuff doesnt mean a thing. like he said they all got plans on how to beat me until i hit them.
Peace!
lol Lewis knocked out Ruddock in 2 rounds
Again Ruddock or Mitch Green (lol) shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breathe as Lewis, Holyfield, Foreman or Ali.
None of those guys would be knocked out in the first 4 rounds by Tyson, peak or not.
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i said tyson before jail is not the same tyson after jail and if he fought lewis before then he would of gotten his jaw swollen to and everybody knows that and the holy one 2
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i think he could take Tysons best shots.
hahahahahahahahaha - no man alive could take tysons best shots in his prime, and certainly not ali.
as for who would win - ali couldn't even beat parkinsons ::)
oh and btw any run of the mill ufc guy would beat them both.
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Ali in his prime was when he was still cassius clay. some of those old fights its like art, how he moved ducked punches and threw with lightning speed. Eventhough he wasnt as big as tyson, the speed alone was knocking guys out. But Tyson at his prime, ala Micheal Spinks, with all the ducking, head movement, body work and power was boxing at its best. Its a shame there wasnt better competetion but look at old tyson stuff, just too much for anyone. It would be a good fight, but Ali at his prime wasnt a thinking mans fighter like he was in the rumble down under, he would of been ko'd.
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If Ali was fighting today,
he would juice up just like tyson and
Tommy Morrison did, and kick all thier asses
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i love when they harp on about the young clay, and his speed ,.,,.,,. the punch that never was... only thing that made liston fall over was the huge pay off he got
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i love when they harp on about the young clay, and his speed ,.,,.,,. the punch that never was... only thing that made liston fall over was the huge pay off he got
that unfortunately is true too...how big a favorite was he? man that was crooked sports at its all time worst, the didnt think clay would eventually become the fighter he was, so when you look back at it you its easy to say that clay would of won and that it was legit.
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Tyson fought nobodies. He fights Holyfight (who was outside of his prime) and gets destoryed. Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight of the era. I think the questions should be could Ali beat Lennox if they were both in their prime. I would give the edge to Lewis.
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Tyson fought nobodies. He fights Holyfight (who was outside of his prime) and gets destoryed. Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight of the era. I think the questions should be could Ali beat Lennox if they were both in their prime. I would give the edge to Lewis.
By the time Tyson fough Holyfield and Lewis, he was out of his prime oo. He was in prison for 3 years and no where near a boxing ring. We are talking about Tyson in his prime in the mid to late eighties here. In which case he would have ko'd everyone in sight.
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By the time Tyson fough Holyfield and Lewis, he was out of his prime oo. He was in prison for 3 years and no where near a boxing ring. We are talking about Tyson in his prime in the mid to late eighties here. In which case he would have ko'd everyone in sight.
Dead Wrong. Lennox Lewis would have destoryed Tyson in his prime. It's funny the time in prison saved Tyson's legacy. If he didn't go to jail he would have been ko'ed by Lewis and we would not even be having this discussion.
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i do agree that lewis is very underated, and was probly the biggest punching heavyweight out there,, was just he was such a lazy fighter at times...
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Dead Wrong. Lennox Lewis would have destoryed Tyson in his prime. It's funny the time in prison saved Tyson's legacy. If he didn't go to jail he would have been ko'ed by Lewis and we would not even be having this discussion.
by the time he went to prison he was already on the way down (mentally), after the huge mega fight with spinks his brain turned into Whacko Jacko status and began to think that the world was his oyster.
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Hard to say. Ali was a boxer and tyson was a fighter. Ali would probably end up frustrating Tyson like Holyfield did and make him snap.
Exactly!
I think Ali would've been able to stay away from Tyson's danger zone, which is on the inside...but after time of dancing around and popping Tyson with his jab, i think Tyson would've gotten VERY frustrated, and done WHATEVER IT TAKES to get Ali in the corner or against the ropes to rip his head off...
So, I see either a KO by Tyson, or a disqualification, of Tyson
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Dead Wrong. Lennox Lewis would have destoryed Tyson in his prime. It's funny the time in prison saved Tyson's legacy. If he didn't go to jail he would have been ko'ed by Lewis and we would not even be having this discussion.
::)
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Who do you think would be more of a class-act - Tyson around 2000 or Ali in his prime? :D
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Dead Wrong. Lennox Lewis would have destoryed Tyson in his prime. It's funny the time in prison saved Tyson's legacy. If he didn't go to jail he would have been ko'ed by Lewis and we would not even be having this discussion.
That is the funniest thing I heard all day and the most unaccurate.
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They should do a computer simulation, like in ROCKY VI ;D
What about Ali vs Roy Jones Jr :o (despite the weight difference I think that would be a good matchup)
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move this retarded 3rd grade argument in the sports section
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Robin Givens vs Tyson was no contest :'(
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move this retarded 3rd grade argument in the sports section
Move your fucking retared pedophile posts to the garbage. Stick to tennis homo. Boxing is a man's sport.
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hahahahahahahahaha - no man alive could take tysons best shots in his prime, and certainly not ali.
as for who would win - ali couldn't even beat parkinsons ::)
oh and btw any run of the mill ufc guy would beat them both.
you just contradicted yourself!! you said no man alive could take tysons best shots then you said any run of the mill ufc guy can beat him!! hahahaha well which is it!?!?
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Bad Mofo!
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Move your fucking retared pedophile posts to the garbage. Stick to tennis homo. Boxing is a man's sport.
Tennis and soccer are discussed here so why not boxing?!!?
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Tennis and soccer are discussed here so why not boxing?!!?
he was referring to sevastase who was saying to remove this thread
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he was referring to sevastase who was saying to remove this thread
I know! And i was asking Sevatese why we shouldnt discuss boxing here!
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Tyson doesn't get enough credit for his early defensive skills, as taught to him by Cus D'Amato. His peekaboo style was perfect and his leg strength allowed him to actually duck below punches (see the Quick Tillis fight) with ease. I think Tyson would have proved a bigger threat to Ali than Frazier did - greater strength, speed and skill. Ali won two of their three matches, so I think Tyson could have had equal success. I'm talking Tyson circa 1986, not 1996 or, God forbid, 2006.
For longevity at the top and ability to win against adversity though, Ali is miles ahead of Tyson.
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only a moron thinks tyson is an all time great, let alone actually compete with ali
just ask any boxing historian
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a young TYSON would absolutely murder ALI... first round k.o. ; just like anybody else who would fuck with MT in his youth/prime
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Give Ali 90's drugs and he would be a beast too
And remember Tyson got knocked out by no name fighters after prison. And prior to that he didn't really bet anybody great
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Ali couldn't beat Tyson because Mike was a brawler/hard puncher. Lewis was a boxer. Mohammed would easily out box Lennox Lewis. Any heavyweight in the history of the sport couldn't out box Ali. Hence the name "The Greatest".
And we're talking about a boxing bout, not street brawl
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a young TYSON would absolutely murder ALI... first round k.o. ; just like anybody else who would fuck with MT in his youth/prime
Hell yeah!
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you just contradicted yourself!! you said no man alive could take tysons best shots then you said any run of the mill ufc guy can beat him!! hahahaha well which is it!?!?
i don't see how i contradicted myself - i think tyson would ko any man he hit with his best shot in his prime ( probably could kill a few with them too). a ufc guy wouldn't allow himself to be hit by tyson, he'd take him down and choke him.
would you go toe to toe with tyson even now? hahahahahaha
thought not.
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Woa, this is a tough one !!!!!!!! My heart says Ali. However my head says Tyson. To me, it all boils down to who's training Tyson. If Kevin Rooney or "Cus" is training Tyson, I say Tyson.
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The guy who is getting demolished by Tyson in this video beat Ali, although it was well past Ali's prime, but still...first round KO
Fail. That was Michael Spinks. His brother Leon beat Ali.
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Keep in mind that until then Michael Spinks was undefeated, had never been knocked down as a pro and was an Olympic Gold medalist. He also beat a near-peak Larry Holmes, who is among the top ten all-time great heavyweights. Mike made Spinks look like a rank amateur in that fight.
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Fail. That was Michael Spinks. His brother Leon beat Ali.
LOL, I realized shortly after posting that earlier today, and was curious if anyone else would notice :)
Either way, it does show the greatness of Tyson in his prime.
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haha this is exactly why tyson fights made so much money on ppv
so many fools bought into his hype and mystique ;)
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Classic Mike Tyson - "I broke my back....spinal!" :D
He actually is quite classy in this interview.
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i don't see how i contradicted myself - i think tyson would ko any man he hit with his best shot in his prime ( probably could kill a few with them too). a ufc guy wouldn't allow himself to be hit by tyson, he'd take him down and choke him.
would you go toe to toe with tyson even now? hahahahahaha
thought not.
One thing i will say about MoralMan is he could take a hell of a shot, never saw the dumb fuck flinch, but then again theres no brain in that head so it figures....
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Are you kidding me? Tyson in his prime would mop the floor with Ali. He was a fucking killer in his hey day. Check out some of his earlier fights.
Nah, Foreman was just as awesome as Tyson ever was, take a look at some of the fights on youtube. There's no chance at all of "mopping the floor" lol ridiculous. Tyson also rarely proved he had the guts to stick it out when in a real fight. The closest comparison would be Buster Douglas, who fought very similarly to Ali and won the fight with Tyson.
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pump, what about Tyson against Razor Ruddock. People forget about that fight !!!!
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Onlyme, you ve met a lot of people over the years, strongmen, fighters, etc. WHo would you says the toughest man you ve ever met?
I've met several I guess tough guys including Mike Tyson, Ali, Jake Lamotta, Chuck Norris, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Bob Wall, Joe Lewis (karate guy), Benny Urquidez, Sugar Ray Leonard, Deacon Jones, Rickson Gracie, and probably many others I can't remember right now. But I gotta tell you I always thought if I was ever to want someone to be with me in a fight against others I would want Gus Rethwisch. He is one strong and very crazy dude. He once got in a fight and called from jail cause he put four guys in the hospital. when you look like Gus you don't give a shit about getting hit or hurt. And as strong and big as he was he did some major damage.
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I've met several I guess tough guys including Mike Tyson, Ali, Jake Lamotta, Chuck Norris, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Bob Wall, Joe Lewis (karate guy), Benny Urquidez, Sugar Ray Leonard, Deacon Jones, Rickson Gracie, and probably many others I can't remember right now. But I gotta tell you I always thought if I was ever to want someone to be with me in a fight against others I would want Gus Rethwisch. He is one strong and very crazy dude. He once got in a fight and called from jail cause he put four guys in the hospital. when you look like Gus you don't give a shit about getting hit or hurt. And as strong and big as he was he did some major damage.
Everybody thinks Tyson was such a different fighter once he got outside of jail, but the fact is he is a bully and he crumbled once he met someone who was not scared or intimidated by him (i.e. Holyfield, Lewis). Against holyfield he came out strong and fast looking like the old Tyson but Holyfield's superior boxing skills allowed him not to be hit by big clean shots, Tyson like the typical bully crumbled. Ali would have killed Tyson, Tyson would not have been able to land big shots against Ali. Tyson in is prime was just like Kimbo Slice; all hype. Primetime Mike Tyson; the baddest man on the planet is just a fairytail invented by weak opponents and the media. Everybody thought Tyson would kill Holyfield in the 1st fight, I knew Holyfield would win, because Holyfield has something Tyson does not...heart
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A lot seem to think Tyson was mopping the flor with everyone early in his career. Let's not forget his bouts against Tony Tucker, who broke his hand early in the fight and managed to go the distance, or against Tillis.
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... Gus Rethwisch. He is one strong and very crazy dude. He once got in a fight and called from jail cause he put four guys in hospital. When you look like Gus you don't give a shit about getting hit or hurt. And as strong and big as he was he did some major damage.
Wasn't this the dude who played Buzzsaw in The Running Man?
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Tyson AT HIS PEAK was also a good boxer and not just a head hunter. He was able to bob and weave very well and was hard as hell to hit. Ali's reach advantage would have been nullified by Mike's speed. Mike would have KO'd Ali by round 5 or 6.
Later, Tyson relied too much on getting that one big hit. He forgot all the things that Cus taught him. He became a one trick pony and if he couldn't knock his opponent out early, he was lost and had nothing to fall back on. Damn that Robin Givens ;D
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Talk about a boring fight. Ali would run his ass off for 15 rounds and win on "points" and his popularity. ::)
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Tyson AT HIS PEAK was also a good boxer and not just a head hunter. He was able to bob and weave very well and was hard as hell to hit. Ali's reach advantage would have been nullified by Mike's speed. Mike would have KO'd Ali by round 5 or 6.
Later, Tyson relied too much on getting that one big hit. He forgot all the things that Cus taught him. He became a one trick pony and if he couldn't knock his opponent out early, he was lost and had nothing to fall back on. Damn that Robin Givens ;D
He didn't just forget to move his head after he got out of jail. He was a one trick pony before you just couldn't see it. BTW - Lennox Lewis has a better jab and RT hand than Tyson, the Lennox Lewis right hand that cracked Tyson was monstrous.
Maybe Kimbo Slice will be talked about like this in 10 years, "in his prime he was unstoppable, noone could have ever beated Kimbo in his prime."
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For all you people who are "favoring" Mike Tyson against Muhammed Ali remember this. Tyson was "favored" to beat Douglas, and got kayoed. He went to prison, did his sentance came back beat a bunch of cans in spectacular fashion, everyone was saying "mike is back!, blah blah blah" basically saying the same b.s. all you youtube fans who probably have never seen an Ali/Clay fight all the way through like real boxing fans. Guess what happened? He got a mudhole stomped in his ass. Where were all these crazy bad ass combos in that fight? He tried, but Holyfield was a tough skilled fighter (something he has never beated). These Tyson vs. Ali questions are so ridiculous in my mind, Ali is a top 3 heavyweight all time, he had a top 3 chin all time and top 3 heart all time. If you want to make these Mike Tyson comparisons, compare him to Earnie Shavers, Sonny Liston (although Liston is the greater fighter, IMO), or Max Baer basically just guys that had crazy punching power, but boxing is SO much more that that.
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a young TYSON would absolutely murder ALI... first round k.o. ; just like anybody else who would fuck with MT in his youth/prime
stick to bodybuilding because you know absouletly fk all about boxing
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Ali couldn't beat Tyson because Mike was a brawler/hard puncher. Lewis was a boxer. Mohammed would easily out box Lennox Lewis. Any heavyweight in the history of the sport couldn't out box Ali. Hence the name "The Greatest".
haha wtf are you talking about?
How the hell would Ali outbox Lewis when he is 2 inches shorter and 25-30lbs lighter?
Lewis was an incredible boxer and thats exactly why Ali wouldn't fair too well against him despite his superiour speed.
The way to beat Mike was either to box him (beat him from the outside) and at the same time break him down in the inside (see Holyfield fight) and Ali was the perfect speciment to do that.
Ali could take a punch and was a tough son of a bitch who fought to the end, hell in the Ken Norton fight he broke his jaw and still continued which is a testament to his resolve.
Mike on the other hand got frustrated when he couldn't knock out an opponent (tomato cans excluded).
One more thing.....Ali is the greatest not for the reason u stated above (which is ridiculous really).
He is the greatest because he beat everyone in 2 seperate decades which was the 60's and 70's, he defeated many hall of famers which are great in their own right.
Mike Tyson's resume dosent even compare to Ali's, Mike was all hype atleast to the general public who dont know boxing.
He was good for a few years but who did he beat?
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haha wtf are you talking about?
How the hell would Ali outbox Lewis when he is 2 inches shorter and 25-30lbs lighter?
Lewis was an incredible boxer and thats exactly why Ali wouldn't fair too well against him despite his superiour speed.
The way to beat Mike was either to box him (beat him from the outside) and at the same time break him down in the inside (see Holyfield fight) and Ali was the perfect speciment to do that.
Ali could take a punch and was a tough son of a bitch who fought to the end, hell in the Ken Norton fight he broke his jaw and still continued which is a testament to his resolve.
Mike on the other hand got frustrated when he couldn't knock out an opponent (tomato cans excluded).
One more thing.....Ali is the greatest not for the reason u stated above (which is ridiculous really).
He is the greatest because he beat everyone in 2 seperate decades which was the 60's and 70's, he defeated many hall of famers which are great in their own right.
Mike Tyson's resume dosent even compare to Ali's, Mike was all hype atleast to the general public who dont know boxing.
He was good for a few years but who did he beat?
* cue the youtube fans * "Ah, man but he said he was going to EAT Lennoxs' kids!!" or " Tyson could kill any man that ever lived in a bar fight with his furious combos" or "He used to beat the shit of of his wife!!" or "Did you see the way threatened to beat up that reporter!?"
Just remember Sonny Liston was a VERY intimidating fighter in the 60's, has a greater legacy in the minds boxing historians and was FAVORED to beat a young Ali, guess what? he got schooled by the superior fighter.....twice.
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haha wtf are you talking about?
How the hell would Ali outbox Lewis when he is 2 inches shorter and 25-30lbs lighter?
Lewis was an incredible boxer and thats exactly why Ali wouldn't fair too well against him despite his superiour speed.
The way to beat Mike was either to box him (beat him from the outside) and at the same time break him down in the inside (see Holyfield fight) and Ali was the perfect speciment to do that.
Ali could take a punch and was a tough son of a bitch who fought to the end, hell in the Ken Norton fight he broke his jaw and still continued which is a testament to his resolve.
Mike on the other hand got frustrated when he couldn't knock out an opponent (tomato cans excluded).
One more thing.....Ali is the greatest not for the reason u stated above (which is ridiculous really).
He is the greatest because he beat everyone in 2 seperate decades which was the 60's and 70's, he defeated many hall of famers which are great in their own right.
Mike Tyson's resume dosent even compare to Ali's, Mike was all hype atleast to the general public who dont know boxing.
He was good for a few years but who did he beat?
Exactly! Who the hell did Tyson fight? He never beat Holyfield right? Lewis made an ass out of him. Tyson is a fucking washed up has been who never was. He's as overrated as a boxer as Arnold is a bodybuilder. Ali had class and charisma. Tyson was a fucking chump street thug who got beat by Buster Douglas. LOL there's always an excuse with Tyson. Oh he wasn't in shape, he had been serving time in jail etc. What fluke of the 60's and 70's beat Ali? If Ali got beat it was by legitimate fighters.
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liston took a dive,, everyone knows that, the punch that never was than his mysterious injury,, fuckn joke.... liston would have murderd clay at that time in his career.... he would have beat him, just as he did foreman later on
I think the boxing purists just like to rubish talk of tyson, the fact is he was totaly awsome for a short period, i would say he was probly the most unbeatable that theres ever been
the purists still like to harp on about joe lewis and try and include other throw back fighters, just to look clever
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liston took a dive,, everyone knows that, the punch that never was than his mysterious injury,, fuckn joke.... liston would have murderd clay at that time in his career.... he would have beat him, just as he did foreman later on
I think the boxing purists just like to rubish talk of tyson, the fact is he was totaly awsome for a short period, i would say he was probly the most unbeatable that theres ever been
the purists still like to harp on about joe lewis and try and include other throw back fighters, just to look clever
1. Ali and Liston fought twice, you clearly avoid the first fight showing alot of bias.
"Liston would have murdered clay at that time in his career.... he would have beat him just as he did foreman later"
2. What are you talking about Liston never fought foreman?, Foreman never beat Ali
3. How about the fact that Joe Louis, WAS a great fighter? Just like Ty Cobb WAS a great baseball player, or Wilt Chamberlin WAS a great basketball player.
4. "Tyson was awesome for a short period" What a few months? And then it suddenly vanished when he fought Douglass. And then it magically came back when he knocked out a bunch of cans out of prison, then once again magically disappeared when he fought Holyfield?
Get real man, seriously you can't believe what you just typed.
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Wasn't this the dude who played Buzzsaw in The Running Man?
Yes
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Exactly! Who the hell did Tyson fight? He never beat Holyfield right? Lewis made an ass out of him. Tyson is a fucking washed up has been who never was. He's as overrated as a boxer as Arnold is a bodybuilder. Ali had class and charisma. Tyson was a fucking chump street thug who got beat by Buster Douglas. LOL there's always an excuse with Tyson. Oh he wasn't in shape, he had been serving time in jail etc. What fluke of the 60's and 70's beat Ali? If Ali got beat it was by legitimate fighters.
Ali also defeated the fighters who actually beat him (apart from the 2 losses in the end where he didnt belong in the ring) who were Ken Norton and Joe Frazier twice each.
I dont agree with Arnold though, the guy was so ahead of his time that he could retire for 5 years, train for 8 weeks then beat the current crop.
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Correct me if I am wrong but Ali went to jail too. Mike would be very frustrated with Ali just like he was with Holyfield. Ali was very smart. Mike would have been so pissed off by the time the fight started he would just go crazy and make mistakes. Ali was very cool and very commanding in the ring. Mike has proven many times he can't take a guy who can keep him away with a jab. And Ali would throw 4 jabs in a heartbeat at Mike. Mike would come in and Ali would either keep him away with a jab or clinch him. Ali was a solid 6'3" Even when I met him for the first time and we wrestled in the valet parking area I felt how solid he was. He had very hard fists then too. This is a debate that will go on forever and no one is going to convince the others either way. And I am far from being a boxing expert (not even close) and even though I have met both guys and I think Mike is unreal I still think Ali would win because of his brains, ring savy, speed, agility and ability to go 15 rounds. Mike destroys him on power but once Mike can't knock you out after a few good shots he gets frustrated and gives up. Look at Holyfield, Douglas and who was the guy he literally quit fighting. I really like Razor Roddick I thought he was really good but didn't go anywhere.
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Correct me if I am wrong but Ali went to jail too. Mike would be very frustrated with Ali just like he was with Holyfield. Ali was very smart. Mike would have been so pissed off by the time the fight started he would just go crazy and make mistakes. Ali was very cool and very commanding in the ring. Mike has proven many times he can't take a guy who can keep him away with a jab. And Ali would throw 4 jabs in a heartbeat at Mike. Mike would come in and Ali would either keep him away with a jab or clinch him. Ali was a solid 6'3" Even when I met him for the first time and we wrestled in the valet parking area I felt how solid he was. He had very hard fists then too. This is a debate that will go on forever and no one is going to convince the others either way. And I am far from being a boxing expert (not even close) and even though I have met both guys and I think Mike is unreal I still think Ali would win because of his brains, ring savy, speed, agility and ability to go 15 rounds. Mike destroys him on power but once Mike can't knock you out after a few good shots he gets frustrated and gives up. Look at Holyfield, Douglas and who was the guy he literally quit fighting. I really like Razor Roddick I thought he was really good but didn't go anywhere.
No, Ali never went to jail. He had his boxing license revoked thus he didnt step into a boxing ring for 3 years (arguably what would have been his prime).
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No, Ali never went to jail. He had his boxing license revoked thus he didnt step into a boxing ring for 3 years (arguably what would have been his prime).
Oh okay I wasn't sure. I knew he wasn't able to box. And like you said that was during his prime
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Correct me if I am wrong but Ali went to jail too. Mike would be very frustrated with Ali just like he was with Holyfield. Ali was very smart. Mike would have been so pissed off by the time the fight started he would just go crazy and make mistakes. Ali was very cool and very commanding in the ring. Mike has proven many times he can't take a guy who can keep him away with a jab. And Ali would throw 4 jabs in a heartbeat at Mike. Mike would come in and Ali would either keep him away with a jab or clinch him. Ali was a solid 6'3" Even when I met him for the first time and we wrestled in the valet parking area I felt how solid he was. He had very hard fists then too. This is a debate that will go on forever and no one is going to convince the others either way. And I am far from being a boxing expert (not even close) and even though I have met both guys and I think Mike is unreal I still think Ali would win because of his brains, ring savy, speed, agility and ability to go 15 rounds. Mike destroys him on power but once Mike can't knock you out after a few good shots he gets frustrated and gives up. Look at Holyfield, Douglas and who was the guy he literally quit fighting. I really like Razor Roddick I thought he was really good but didn't go anywhere.
Brutal self-outage ;D
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Brutal self-outage ;D
Yes I see that now. Well I meant his structure was solid. Considering how old he was. He was weighing 240 or so at the time
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Who would win? Could Ali live with this beast in the early rounds?
ali wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of beating tyson.they are two different breeds.
bench
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Ali did go to jail for evading the draft due to his religous beleifs.
Anyone who saw Ali fifght would never think for a millisecond that Tyson,who beat a lot of nobodys in seconds flat could ever have taken Ali.
When Tyson fought Michael Spinks,who was a great fighter,Spinks just wasn`t the warrior that he was in his prime...........look up Spinks` record.
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Ali did go to jail for evading the draft due to his religous beleifs.
Anyone who saw Ali fifght would never think for a millisecond that Tyson,who beat a lot of nobodys in seconds flat could ever have taken Ali.
When Tyson fought Michael Spinks,who was a great fighter,Spinks just wasn`t the warrior that he was in his prime...........look up Spinks` record.
Actually he didn't serve any time in jail. He was fined $100,000 and given a five year sentance which was overturned on appeal. The process took over 3 years in which time he was not allowed to fight
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Ali did go to jail for evading the draft due to his religous beleifs.
Anyone who saw Ali fifght would never think for a millisecond that Tyson,who beat a lot of nobodys in seconds flat could ever have taken Ali.
When Tyson fought Michael Spinks,who was a great fighter,Spinks just wasn`t the warrior that he was in his prime...........look up Spinks` record.
I am still pissed about the Holmes - Spinks fight. Both of em.
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Ali got a 5 year jail sentence - SUSPENDED!
He never went inside for even one day!!!
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Frequent Question.
I think Ali/Frazier may give some insight, although I'm well aware that the Ali of 1971 was not the Ali of 1966 - his prime best (check
out his fight against Cleveland Williams).
Joe Frazier had similar physiques and fighting styles, but there are some clear differences:
1.) Tyson had KO punching power in both hands, plus a devasting upper-cut, which Frazier didn't have. He was basically a one-punch
fighter (his left hook is primary weapon), and even when he hit you, he did not have one-punch KO power like Tyson
2.) Frazier didn't have Tyson's speed and was a slow starter. He really didn't get going until about the 4th round, whereas with Tyson, that's when he would typically wear out.
3.) Frazier's heart and punch output was superior to Tyson's. Frazier was a punching machine and would
throw punches for 15 rounds, even though he may hit a lot of arm and hip shots, those kind of shots worn down his opponents in later rounds.
4.) As for chins, I think they were similar. Frazier took a lot of shots from Ali, but Ali was not the hardest puncher, and when he did get in the ring with a hard puncher like Foreman, he didn't last 2 rounds. Tyson took big shots from Douglass, Ruddock, and Lennox, but outside of Ruddock, I wouldn't say the other 2 were bone crushers.
As for Ali, his biggest weakness - even at his prime was that he dropped his right hand and could be caught with a left hook. He showed this as an amateur and as a pro against the likes of Henry Cooper - a sub 200lb HW who almost knocked him out early in his career. The left hook was a primary weapon of Frazier and Tyson, and I think Tyson would be in a better position to use his, because Ali would have to respect his other punches, whereas Ali only had to fear Frazier's left.
As for Ali taking Foreman's shots, if you look at that fight, he barely connected. He threw a lot at the body, but he barely got a clean shot because Ali leaned into those loose ropes. Plus Foreman throw long heavy punches where he needed to have room in order to get the full effect. Tyson and Frazier were much better at throwing devastating punches at close range. If you gave Frazier and Tyson those same opportunities to land body punches, I do not believe he could have survived, which is why I think Ali would not have fought the "rope-a-dope" against Tyson. His best chance would have been to fight him as he did Liston - moving around, jabbing, quick combo's, in and out.
The Verdict: Tyson slightly. It's like hitting the lottery though. If he lands a big shot, then it's over - but the big question is "if"?
Agree with most of your analysis, however:
Boxers with good footwork give Tyson all types of problems. A Cus D'Amato Tyson who would wait patientely, go after the body first, then throw the cross/hook/overhand would have fared better against Ali. Ali could slip, bob, weave and take punishment. His footwork allowed him to cut angles, get in, strike, then tie up or get out of range and blister opponents. His will, jaw, and abiltiy to take punishment is legendary. I don't think this would be a close fight. Ali by sixth round TKO or KO.
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Seeing as human cloning is scientifically possible...we could, theoretically, set the fight up for 2030.
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Agree with most of your analysis, however:
Boxers with good footwork give Tyson all types of problems. A Cus D'Amato Tyson who would wait patientely, go after the body first, then throw the cross/hook/overhand would have fared better against Ali. Ali could slip, bob, weave and take punishment. His footwork allowed him to cut angles, get in, strike, then tie up or get out of range and blister opponents. His will, jaw, and abiltiy to take punishment is legendary. I don't think this would be a close fight. Ali by sixth round TKO or KO.
Agreed, however Ali's weakness was power so the fights were rarely over as fast as you claim, it would've taken longer as it did with most of his fights.
As i've mentioned the closest comparisons would be Douglas-Tyson, since Douglas was for one fight a great boxer not dissimilar to Ali and thus a good proxy for Ali, and Foreman against Ali, as Foreman was an excellent proxy for Tyson. Douglas for that one fight just after his mother died finally finding motivation and realizing his potential as a great boxer not dissimal to Ali. He always had the physical part, and for that one fight he had motivation married with Ali's boxing skills, height and reach and see what happened.
Tyson never proved for the most part that he had the guts to stand in with a good fighter if the fight didnt end early, similar to Foreman. Foreman was just as awesome but also had the same weakness, a lack of endurance and guts to last 15 rounds when needed. Hollyfield's ear was bitten in order to end the fight he didn't want to be in, because as his ex-trainer said Tyson was essentially a coward when not able to be a bully. He was not mentally tough as he would've needed to be against great fighters.
Best examples of proven formulas to beat Ali were the first Frazier-Ali fight, before Frazier had been hit too much and before Ali used excessive holding that refs allowed him to get away with in subsequent fights without penalty, and Ken Norton, who in effect beat Ali 2 out of 3 fights despite the outcomes.
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Agreed, however Ali's weakness was power so the fights were rarely over as fast as you claim, it would've taken longer as it did with most of his fights.
As i've mentioned the closest comparisons would be Douglas-Tyson, since Douglas was for one fight a great boxer not dissimilar to Ali and thus a good proxy for Ali, and Foreman against Ali, as Foreman was an excellent proxy for Tyson. Douglas for that one fight just after his mother died finally finding motivation and realizing his potential as a great boxer not dissimal to Ali. He always had the physical part, and for that one fight he had motivation married with Ali's boxing skills, height and reach and see what happened.
Tyson never proved for the most part that he had the guts to stand in with a good fighter if the fight didnt end early, similar to Foreman. Foreman was just as awesome but also had the same weakness, a lack of endurance and guts to last 15 rounds when needed. Hollyfield's ear was bitten in order to end the fight he didn't want to be in, because as his ex-trainer said Tyson was essentially a coward when not able to be a bully. He was not mentally tough as he would've needed to be against great fighters.
Best examples of proven formulas to beat Ali were the first Frazier-Ali fight, before Frazier had been hit too much and before Ali used excessive holding that refs allowed him to get away with in subsequent fights without penalty, and Ken Norton, who in effect beat Ali 2 out of 3 fights despite the outcomes.
Ali had 37 KO's and most of them were all in round 7 or before. Ali gets as much $200,000 an appearance and at his peak of "celebrity" after boxing he was doing more than 200 appearances a year. Do the math on that one.
Of all the people I have ever met in mylife meeting him was the most exciting and memorable. And the biggest thrill is when we met up 3 months after the first time and he saw me standing in the crowd and he waved me over and then got his wife to come over to say hi to me. That was in Miami at the Fountianbleu Hotel. It awesome that he remembered me and his wife telling me how much he liked me
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Ali had 37 KO's and most of them were all in round 7 or before. Ali gets as much $200,000 an appearance and at his peak of "celebrity" after boxing he was doing more than 200 appearances a year. Do the math on that one.
I read that Ali recently sold his phrase business..."The Greatest" to some company for $50 million.
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I read that Ali recently sold his phrase business..."The Greatest" to some company for $50 million.
He has very good people around him and people who have been there for many years. They watch out for him.
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He has very good people around him and people who have been there for many years. They watch out for him.
Yes, must be so. I read some years ago there was money problems, if true at all, but it seems if it were it is not the case anymore.
You do know that Larry Holmes has done famously for himself, $ wise.
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Yes, must be so. I read some years ago there was money problems, if true at all, but it seems if it were it is not the case anymore.
You do know that Larry Holmes has done famously for himself, $ wise.
I think the guys from back in that era have done okay for themselves later in life. Some of them haven't though. The Spinks brothers, Jerry Quarry. But the Big three have Foreman, Holmes and Ali.
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I think the guys from back in that era have done okay for themselves later in life. Some of them haven't though. The Spinks brothers, Jerry Quarry. But the Big three have Foreman, Holmes and Ali.
How aboiut Frazier...he seems very bitter, IMO.
Foreman=Grill=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!
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Back in my day we had the best heavyweights in the history of boxing. Definitely the most colorful. Ernie Shavers was downright scary as hell and huge. I think a boxer who didn't get the recognition and got ripped off in a couple fights was Renaldo Snipes. Ken Norton to was strong as hell and could punch. Broke Ali's jaw early in the fight and Ali still fought the entire fight. Godamm I can't think of his name and I met him a few times, he was the big white guy with the huge head and later became an actor. He knew karate.
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Back in my day we had the best heavyweights in the history of boxing. Definitely the most colorful. Ernie Shavers was downright scary as hell and huge. I think a boxer who didn't get the recognition and got ripped off in a couple fights was Renaldo Snipes. Ken Norton to was strong as hell and could punch. Broke Ali's jaw early in the fight and Ali still fought the entire fight. Godamm I can't think of his name and I met him a few times, he was the big white guy with the huge head and later became an actor. He knew karate.
Tex Cobb
How about Mike Weaver? He was jacked.
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Tex Cobb
How about Mike Weaver? He was jacked.
YES! Man I can't believe I forgot his name. He used to come to the club I bounced at and where Max Rep worked. Is this Mike Weaver. I am not sure but I pt his name
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YES! Man I can't believe I forgot his name. He used to come to the club I bounced at and where Max Rep worked. Is this Mike Weaver. I am not sure but I pt his name
Looks like Weaver...altho head used to sport a bit larger 'fro.
Remember Boecrusher Smith? One of the first, if not the first, guys to go the distance with Tyson. HE was jacked, and ripped to.
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Looks like Weaver...altho head used to sport a bit larger 'fro.
Remember Boecrusher Smith? One of the first, if not the first, guys to go the distance with Tyson. HE was jacked, and ripped to.
Yeah that's weaver. He beat my boy Big John Tate in 1980.
Now Weaver is working in a Post Office. :-\
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hahahahaha
A small selection of great phrases from this 'Muslim' poster boy:
"i wish one of you guys had children so i could kick them in the fvcking head or stomp on their testicles"
"i won't talk nice to you, i'll talk about fornicating with you or letting you suck my dick"
"i'll fvck you till you love me f@ggot"
"i normally don't do interviews with women unless i fornicate with them, so you shouldn't talk anymore unless you wanna......you know."
"i want his heart, i wanna eat his children. Praise be to Allah" hahahaha
poster boy for Islam !!!!
Religion of hate indeed
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Hey i do agree with you on something!!!
"I want your heart i wanna eat his children praise be to Allah!"
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does anyone agree boxing is now.......shit.
i believe steroids have ruined boxing.
as only me said back in his day the matches were amazing, you had real athletes like frazier, ali, foreman, sugar ray leonard, hagler, hearns, duran, tyson.
there are very few great boxers around now - especialy at the heavier weights.
exeptions are floyd mayweather ( although lighter), and roy jones jnr - who i feel are both very similar in style funnily enough.
i only watch the lighter weight fights these days, ( and calzaghe).
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Who would win?
Rickson by armbar. ;)
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how have steroids ruined boxing, probly more prevailent in the 60's and 70's when all athletes took them??????
these things come in cycles,,, one decade the lighter weights flourish, the next the big boys run the show,, just goin thru a bad spell at the mo,, the 90's were a good period for heavyweights, u could compare lewis, holyfeild,tyson, bowe to any period in boxing
in my other post i messed my wording up,,, liston took a dive in both fights, once with a punch that never was, the other with a mysterious "injury"... i meant to say, liston was too much at that time in his career for ali... but ali would have beaten him , just as he did foreman later on in his career...
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why the twisty face at that comment,,, all athlete took them like sweets during that time, they werent even tested!
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my money is on the black guy
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yes 'some' may have took them, but not the number of users its at today.
steroid taking boxers have a 'look' the naturals don't - look at the guys i mentioned and compare them with todays boxers ??? totally different look - and i deont believe for 1 sec its due to harder training now. ::)
also the heavyweights today are so big, but also extremly slow - look at golota - the russian frankenstein. matches these days are just 2 guys bumping/fumbling into each other, while throwing the odd punch trying to keep their balance - they also fatigue very early indeed these days (at the heavier weights) despite training for endurance ???
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same procedure in every sport today
look at the nba of the 80s erly 90s and yom must cry
look at the weightlifting of the 80s erly 90s and yom must cry
look at the bodybuilding of the 80s erly 90s and yom must cry
and so on
huge lack of talent and dedication everywhere
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Boixng needs a HW superstar to wake the sport up again. MMA will kill it otherwise in the mainstream, i prefer boxing as i think a stand up fist fight is or can be dam exciting, rolling round on the floor trying to put on holds while skilled isnt as exciting as seeing a guy KTFO!
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Prime Tyson? Hercules couldn't take his shots!
Buster Douglass took his punches. And don't use the lame excuse that he was "past his prime". He was 23 when he fought Douglas, did his superhuman punching power just vanish like a fart in the wind? Get real.
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Buster Douglass took his punches. And don't use the lame excuse that he was "past his prime". He was 23 when he fought Douglas, did his superhuman punching power just vanish like a fart in the wind? Get real.
This is true. Douglas was a 47 to 1 underdog and basically a no one. he looked awesome that night in every way and kicked Mike ass even after being knocked down. Douglas was never afraid of Mike. Mike kicked the guys asses who were afraid of him. The guys who weren't did well or at least lasted just like that moron Greene
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Agreed, however Ali's weakness was power so the fights were rarely over as fast as you claim, it would've taken longer as it did with most of his fights.
As i've mentioned the closest comparisons would be Douglas-Tyson, since Douglas was for one fight a great boxer not dissimilar to Ali and thus a good proxy for Ali, and Foreman against Ali, as Foreman was an excellent proxy for Tyson. Douglas for that one fight just after his mother died finally finding motivation and realizing his potential as a great boxer not dissimal to Ali. He always had the physical part, and for that one fight he had motivation married with Ali's boxing skills, height and reach and see what happened.
Tyson never proved for the most part that he had the guts to stand in with a good fighter if the fight didnt end early, similar to Foreman. Foreman was just as awesome but also had the same weakness, a lack of endurance and guts to last 15 rounds when needed. Hollyfield's ear was bitten in order to end the fight he didn't want to be in, because as his ex-trainer said Tyson was essentially a coward when not able to be a bully. He was not mentally tough as he would've needed to be against great fighters.
Best examples of proven formulas to beat Ali were the first Frazier-Ali fight, before Frazier had been hit too much and before Ali used excessive holding that refs allowed him to get away with in subsequent fights without penalty, and Ken Norton, who in effect beat Ali 2 out of 3 fights despite the outcomes.
Just like Mike Tyson didn't fare well against BOXERs with footwork, a stiff jab, Ali conversely fared very well against brawlers with power. Ali survived Ernie Shavers, who had MORE power than Ali, beat a YOUNG Foreman, fought through a broken jaw against Norton only to lose a split decision, then beat Norton by split decision. His fights with Frazier are legendary, but he also beat Jerry Quarry twice, both by TKO, KOed Jimmy Ellis, who previously beat down Foreman, and was destroying Liston in the first fight flash KO of the second nowithstanding.
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Boixng needs a HW superstar to wake the sport up again. MMA will kill it otherwise in the mainstream, i prefer boxing as i think a stand up fist fight is or can be dam exciting, rolling round on the floor trying to put on holds while skilled isnt as exciting as seeing a guy KTFO!
In some respects MMA is a joke. You've got teachers leaving their profession to try to make it big in MMA? LOL. How many heavy weight boxers left a desk job to try to make it big? LOL NONE! You don't make it big in heavyweight boxing. It's something you train your ass off for day in and day out. MMA is boring as hell to watch and this is coming from someone who trains religiously in martial arts and self defense. Boxing is fun to watch. The only reason MMA is so damn popular is because people think what they see these guys do in the ring works in the street or somehow makes them tough and what not. They think there is this huge carry over effect. There is NOT! I'd roll around on the ground with any expert in BJJ and you know what?............I'll bite a fucking chunk out of his leg or smash him in his fucking nuts. You put any of those MMA fighters in a boxing ring and they'd get their ass handed to them. Some of them are great athletes and great at what they do in the MMA ring. But that's about it. MMA and UFC is all hype with a bunch of uneducated fans who have no clue about real fighting in general. Atleast that's your average TapOut/Affliction T-shirt wearing MMA fan for the most part. Ohhhhhhhhh I forgot about all the stupid women that have jumped on the MMA is cool bandwagon lately. UFC was cool for the first few years when you didn't have weight classes and had guys like Royce Gracie fighting huge ass sumo wrestlers etc. Now you've got all these stupid ass weight classes that make it even more unrealistic. There are no weight classes in the street. BJ Penn would have to fight a Ken Shamrock.
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The simple answer is this...Ali would have gotten into the ring and been the favorite...Ali would have not been intimidated by Tyson...Tyson as good as he was, fought complete hacks or guys past there prime...And when Tyson finally lost a fight, it was because the guy had nothing to lose and wasn't going to be intimidated...
Ali fought the american government and won...Mike Tyson would have been this lesser man in front of him...When Ali took Tyson into the later rounds and Tyson knew he was not going to knock Ali out, the fight basically would have been over and what happend in the Tyson/Douglas fight would have also happend in the Tyson/Ali fight...
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This is a debate that myself and the greens keeper that I work with debate daily. If anyone could KO Ali? It would be Iron Mike. If anyone could beat a prime Tyson? It would be Ali. There's only one debate here? Tyson wasn't a George Foreman. If Ali did the rope-a-dope with Mike he wouldn't have made it. Please don't disagree with that. Tyson was so accurate and painfully hurtful with both hands. He knocked people out! Ali had a chin no doubt! Prime Tyson? Hercules couldn't take his shots! If Ali could take him out of the 4 round comfort zone? Ali is my favorite no doubt. Holyfield second. Iron Mike Tyson in his prime was a KO machine. In my opinion The only one that could beat a prime Iron Mike is Mohammed Ali?
Show me one fighter that Tyson fought who was worth a shit in the 80's...And when he finally fought anyone with some talent in the 90's, we all know what happend...Holyfield showed us the type of fighter Mike Tyson was...
Mike Tyson was fun to watch...But so isn't the new game show WipeOut where they put complete fatass's up against obstacles that would be tuff for a seasoned athlete
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My Heart goes with Ali, my pocket with Tyson (specially if the fight its to be over in less than 3 rounds).
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Tyson has 3-4 rounds to land 1 solid punch - if he does game over...
Otherwise he will get pissed off and eat Ali's ear and rape his family...either way the man wins!
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In some respects MMA is a joke. You've got teachers leaving their profession to try to make it big in MMA? LOL. How many heavy weight boxers left a desk job to try to make it big? LOL NONE! You don't make it big in heavyweight boxing. It's something you train your ass off for day in and day out. MMA is boring as hell to watch and this is coming from someone who trains religiously in martial arts and self defense. Boxing is fun to watch. The only reason MMA is so damn popular is because people think what they see these guys do in the ring works in the street or somehow makes them tough and what not. They think there is this huge carry over effect. There is NOT! I'd roll around on the ground with any expert in BJJ and you know what?............I'll bite a fucking chunk out of his leg or smash him in his fucking nuts. You put any of those MMA fighters in a boxing ring and they'd get their ass handed to them. Some of them are great athletes and great at what they do in the MMA ring. But that's about it. MMA and UFC is all hype with a bunch of uneducated fans who have no clue about real fighting in general. Atleast that's your average TapOut/Affliction T-shirt wearing MMA fan for the most part. Ohhhhhhhhh I forgot about all the stupid women that have jumped on the MMA is cool bandwagon lately. UFC was cool for the first few years when you didn't have weight classes and had guys like Royce Gracie fighting huge ass sumo wrestlers etc. Now you've got all these stupid ass weight classes that make it even more unrealistic. There are no weight classes in the street. BJ Penn would have to fight a Ken Shamrock.
And BJ would win. I tell you what. Go to Renzo's school, you are in NY aren't you, tell him you want an NHB fight where biting is allowed, I am sure he will accomodate you. You can test your theories.
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And BJ would win. I tell you what. Go to Renzo's school, you are in NY aren't you, tell him you want an NHB fight where biting is allowed, I am sure he will accomodate you. You can test your theories.
Im not currently in NY at the moment. And I'm not about to say I can step in the ring with any of the Gracies. I'm not a black belt. But there are black belts at my school. I'll put my system up against any sytem any day of the week. But we are not just talking biting what about head butting, groin punches, eye gouging as well?. That's part of what VAJ is all about. Like I said ask Renzo Gracie (or the Gracie guy with first name H something) who John Petrone and Professor David James are. He'll tell you. If you want to put a Renzo black belt up against a VAJ blackbelt or a Renzo yellow belt or a red belt or any other comparable level of belt up against the equivalent VAJ rank you'd be sadly surprised at how "effective" Gracie jijitsu really is in a street situation.
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And BJ would win. I tell you what. Go to Renzo's school, you are in NY aren't you, tell him you want an NHB fight where biting is allowed, I am sure he will accomodate you. You can test your theories.
hahahahaha i'm quite sure this 'martialartkillingmachine mcmannus' will be too busy to face renzo that day ;D
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hahahahaha i'm quite sure this 'martialartkillingmachine mcmannus' will be too busy to face renzo that day ;D
Could I beat Renzo Gracie? Umm yeah ok ::) He's been training longer than I've been alive tough guy. Now I'd put Shihan John Petrone up against him or Professor David James up against him in a heart beat and they'd probably kill the guy.
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Could I beat Renzo Gracie? Umm yeah ok ::) He's been training longer than I've been alive tough guy. Now I'd put Shihan John Petrone up against him or Professor David James up against him in a heart beat and they'd probably kill the guy.
the fact remains that despite your fairytale notions that boxers would beat any mma guy are just plain wrong. in a boxing match yes, in a mma match or a street fight not a chance in hell.
as for petrone and james ::) its all conjecture. the gracies were fighting real fights on the streets of brazil, so these ultimate protection guys might find the gracies could also bite and come up with other tactics.
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the fact remains that despite your fairytale notions that boxers would beat any mma guy are just plain wrong. in a boxing match yes, in a mma match or a street fight not a chance in hell.
as for petrone and james ::) its all conjecture. the gracies were fighting real fights on the streets of brazil, so these ultimate protection guys might find the gracies could also bite and come up with other tactics.
Hey you're entitled to your opinion. Like I told Americanbulldog ask any of the Gracies about John Petrone and Vee Arnis Jitsu. They'll tell you he's a crazy bad ass not to be messed with.
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the fact remains that despite your fairytale notions that boxers would beat any mma guy are just plain wrong. in a boxing match yes, in a mma match or a street fight not a chance in hell.
you are overreaching with this statement
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The guy who is getting demolished by Tyson in this video beat Ali, although it was well past Ali's prime, but still...first round KO
I think you are confusing Michael Spinks (the guy in the video) with his brother Leon Spinks.
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you are overreaching with this statement
you are overreaching with yours :D
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you are overreaching with yours :D
???
Which one?
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Could I beat Renzo Gracie? Umm yeah ok ::) He's been training longer than I've been alive tough guy. Now I'd put Shihan John Petrone up against him or Professor David James up against him in a heart beat and they'd probably kill the guy.
OOoooo boy? Renzo wasn't the nicest guy to come across in Rio, and he and his bro are known for getting into many an altercation. Ryan was stabbed, bitten, etc. He was a bad dude up to his death. I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT PROFFESSOR JAMES, OR SHIHAN JOHN PETRONE would echo your sentiment if they were within earshot of Renzo.
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OOoooo boy? Renzo wasn't the nicest guy to come across in Rio, and he and his bro are known for getting into many an altercation. Ryan was stabbed, bitten, etc. He was a bad dude up to his death. I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT PROFFESSOR JAMES, OR SHIHAN JOHN PETRONE would echo your sentiment if they were within earshot of Renzo.
ASK ANYONE WHO KNOWS AND THEY'LL TELL YOU! Like I said ask any of the Gracies. I'm done with this argument. I'm made my points and others have made theirs. It comes down to opinion. I'm not familiar with how old Renzo is but David James is 50+ years old not a spring chicken. If they are the same age Renzo would get seriously hurt. Case closed.
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Look how stupid this shit is? Sorry but either one would completely destroy Renzo Gracie.
Sorry but I shouldn't expect a master in "wing chun" to understand much about real fighting.
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Like I said I posted both www.veearnisjitsu.com and www.defenseinstitute.com You can voice your opinions to either Shihan Petrone or Professor James and they'll gladly counter any of your arguments, comment on Gracie BJJ, and explain to you why VAJ is a vastly superior street system.
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Look how stupid this shit is? Sorry but either one would completely destroy Renzo Gracie.
Sorry but I shouldn't expect a master in "wing chun" to understand much about real fighting.
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Like I said I posted both www.veearnisjitsu.com and www.defenseinstitute.com You can voice your opinions to either Shihan Petrone or Professor James and they'll gladly counter any of your arguments, comment on Gracie BJJ, and explain to you why VAJ is a vastly superior street system.
Not knowing much about your fellow but is this style represented in the UFC and how many champions are there that practice this style. It looks impressive but nothing spectacular especially when the opponent he is using are not doing much but standing there or moving in slow motion. Anyone quick enough would knock him out easy and on the ground he is useless probably. I only watched a little part of the videos but did I miss something.
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Look how stupid this shit is? Sorry but either one would completely destroy Renzo Gracie.
Sorry but I shouldn't expect a master in "wing chun" to understand much about real fighting.
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Like I said I posted both www.veearnisjitsu.com and www.defenseinstitute.com You can voice your opinions to either Shihan Petrone or Professor James and they'll gladly counter any of your arguments, comment on Gracie BJJ, and explain to you why VAJ is a vastly superior street system.
Uh, okay. BJ Penn would mess up ANY VAJ fighter in the street. Renzo is 41, Rickson is 50. I give Professor James 0 chance of beating Rickson in a Vale Tudo style match. They still do it in Brazil. Fighting against a co-operative, non resisting opponent is easier than fighting against a live one. Training WEKAF style escrima and training Dog Brothers is TWO different things. NO pretty carenza, no slick abaniko, no guntings. When a kamongong stick is whizzing by your head at 125 mph, and all you got on is a fencing mask and baseball gloves, EVERYTHING changes. I have not had the pleasure of going to a gathering of the pack, but I have trained FULL CONTACT Kali, and brother, let me tell you it is MUCH different than performing sumbrada, hubud-lubud-ligot. NO need to post at their website, I have trained with many a VAJ here in HAWAII (a melting pot of Filipino martial artists). A lot of them even started doing BJJ with RELSON. Before you make bold statements, I reccomend you get in the pool and try swimming. Dry land swimming makes perfect sense, perfects techniques, but still isn't swimming. All the Head Butts, Knees and Elbows are useless if you can't employ the techniques against LIVE, RESISTING OPPONENTS who are aware you plan on attacking them, and are AGGRESSIVE AND SKILLED. And as you said, I am out.
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Ali all the way.
He fought a similar fighter in Forman.
Ali would just dance around for 10 rounds and let Mike have it for the next 5. (assuming it would be 15 rounds)
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I think it's a shame that neither boxer was able to be in a true "prime". Ali's career was interrupted when he wasn't allowed to box for several years due to his refusing to fight in Vietnam (hell, he didn't even train much in that time). Tyson was never the same after Cus died and he fired his original trainer, which was fairly early on in his heavyweight championship reign. So we really don't know how good Ali could have been in that time or when Tyson was demolishing everyone until he lost focus/fire/the ability to train properly/whatever. To Ali's advantage in this discussion though is that Ali both won and lost legendary fights against legendary boxers. Tyson has far fewer tests, and far fewer tests where he was actually victorious. Tyson was a powerful boxer, but Ali could take tremendous punishment and Tyson has never proven he could take a good beating. Ali, much like Arnold, was great at the head games, which surely would have effected Tyson had they been contemporaries (and things like training and drug regimens being equal).
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I think it's a shame that neither boxer was able to be in a true "prime". Ali's career was interrupted when he wasn't allowed to box for several years due to his refusing to fight in Vietnam (hell, he didn't even train much in that time). Tyson was never the same after Cus died and he fired his original trainer, which was fairly early on in his heavyweight championship reign. So we really don't know how good Ali could have been in that time or when Tyson was demolishing everyone until he lost focus/fire/the ability to train properly/whatever. To Ali's advantage in this discussion though is that Ali both won and lost legendary fights against legendary boxers. Tyson has far fewer tests, and far fewer tests where he was actually victorious. Tyson was a powerful boxer, but Ali could take tremendous punishment and Tyson has never proven he could take a good beating. Ali, much like Arnold, was great at the head games, which surely would have effected Tyson had they been contemporaries (and things like training and drug regimens being equal).
When Rooney left everything started to go downhill. Atlas too. Those idiots Mike had in his corner knew nothing about boxing.
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When Rooney left everything started to go downhill. Atlas too. Those idiots Mike had in his corner knew nothing about boxing.
I agree. Getting rid of Rooney, firing Bill Cayton and replacing him with Don King were Tyson's worst mistakes.
Tyson in his prime was the most devastating puncher in the history of boxing. He hit harder than Foreman and moved much better. Ali could take a punch, but I'm not sure he would have held up in the first few rounds. Tyson would have gotten through the rope-a-dope.
I always thought Tyson hit so hard he had the potential to literally kill someone in the ring. Remember that guy from England he fought whose jaw had to be wired after the fight? Also broke his ribs. Tyson was a beast.
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Ali. Able to withstand and defuse similar power from a much bigger fighter (Foreman), similar power from a much smaller man would pose no great threat to the ultimate ring technician. Ali would use his superior size and length to his advantage, frustrating Tyson and peppering him with jabs from the outside in the early rounds. Tyson's primary weapon, intimidation, would be worthless against Ali. In the later rounds, a psychologically defeated Tyson (see Tyson v. Holyfield fights) would essesntially quit, allowing Ali to step in and land enough blows that the referee would stop it. Ali by 10 Round TKO.
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Ali. Able to withstand and defuse similar power from a much bigger fighter (Foreman), similar power from a much smaller man would pose no great threat to the ultimate ring technician. Ali would use his superior size and length to his advantage, frustrating Tyson and peppering him with jabs from the outside in the early rounds. Tyson's primary weapon, intimidation, would be worthless against Ali. In the later rounds, a psychologically defeated Tyson (see Tyson v. Holyfield fights) would essesntially quit, allowing Ali to step in and land enough blows that the referee would stop it. Ali by 10 Round TKO.
well put.
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Ali. Able to withstand and defuse similar power from a much bigger fighter (Foreman), similar power from a much smaller man would pose no great threat to the ultimate ring technician. Ali would use his superior size and length to his advantage, frustrating Tyson and peppering him with jabs from the outside in the early rounds. Tyson's primary weapon, intimidation, would be worthless against Ali. In the later rounds, a psychologically defeated Tyson (see Tyson v. Holyfield fights) would essesntially quit, allowing Ali to step in and land enough blows that the referee would stop it. Ali by 10 Round TKO.
Can't really argue with you. Early rounds would favor Tyson, later rounds Ali.
I do, however, see a big difference between Tyson in his prime and Foreman. Tyson hit harder IMO, was much quicker, and was a better defender.
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Can't really argue with you. Early rounds would favor Tyson, later rounds Ali.
I do, however, see a big difference between Tyson in his prime and Foreman. Tyson hit harder IMO, was much quicker, and was a better defender.
You're definitely right about the speed, I'm not so sure about the power. Big George could really bang, I'm even thinking in the twilight of his career when he decked Moorer. The main point though was Ali could not be intimidated (even by Sonny Liston, one of the meanest, scariest men ever to lace up the gloves) which Tyson was highly dependent upon.
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Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.
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Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.
idiot
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Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.
Foolishness.
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Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.
Holy macrel are you really that dumb or is this a joke. Tyson beat the same guys Ali fought but 20 years later. The valet guy could have beaten Holmes when he fought Tyson
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Prop em up and he's still kick Tysons ass. TODAY! Tyson= the most overated boxer for non boxing fans and kids who think they are. Look back in history and watch Jack Johnson, Joe Frazer, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsy. The list goes on and on. Try looking up some boxing history before you put Tyson on a pedestal.
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I'll re-phrase,
What I meant was Mike Tyson was a nut job and he had the killer mentality. He was a skilled boxer and more then what people give him credit for. Don't forget, when he fought Holyfield and Lewis it was after a 3 year lay off from the sport as he was in prison and had his own personal problems. But watch his early fights before prison. he massacred everything and everyone in his path. He's knocked the shit out of boxers a foot taller then him clear across the ring. Most of his fights were all 1st round ko's.
Yea, but these were all tomato cans. They weren't household names even in their own household. He fought every 2 weeks with whoever Cus wanted to weed out of the bottom of the division. The first name fighter he fought was Mavis Frazer and even he was no top 10 fighter. Boxers like Mitch Green and James Tillis gave him fits before giving up. Check the records of some or these guys that were a foot taller than Tyson and you'll see records like 5-17 2ko's and 4-13 with 1ko. Tyson was good, but not great.
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Prop em up and he's still kick Tysons ass. TODAY! Tyson= the most overated boxer for non boxing fans and kids who think they are. Look back in history and watch Jack Johnson, Joe Frazer, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsy. The list goes on and on. Try looking up some boxing history before you put Tyson on a pedestal.
I disagree. Tyson in his prime with his team of Rooney, etc. would have been right in the mix banging with Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, etc.
I watched fights of all those guys. It was boxing's greatest era for heavyweights. Hard to overstate what a devasting puncher Tyson was in his prime.
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I disagree. Tyson in his prime with his team of Rooney, etc. would have been right in the mix banging with Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, etc.
I watched fights of all those guys. It was boxest greatest era for heavyweights. Hard to overstate what a devasting puncher Tyson was in his prime.
You're talking boxers of the 70's. What about Joe Louis or Rocky Marcino?I know this discussion means nothing, but IMO none of the fighters I've mentioned would of been ko'd by Evander, Buster, Danny Williams or even Lenox Lewis. Tyson was the best in a poor time in the heavyweight division.
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You're talking boxers of the 70's. What about Joe Louis or Rocky Marchino? I know this discussion means nothing, but IMO none of the fighters I've mentioned would of been ko'd by Evander, Buster, Danny Williams or even Lenox Lewis. Tyson was the best in a poor time in the heavyweight division.
Louis and Marciano were great fighters, but they were too small.
I agree the heavyweight division was poor and has been since Tyson's days. I don't even watch boxing anymore. :'(
Holyfiled would have been decent with those guys from the 70s, but not Lennox "glass jaw" Lewis. Buster Douglas was a one hit wonder. Don't really know anything about Danny Williams.
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Danny Williams was a bum brought over from the UK to give Tyson some confidence, but instead it backfired and he kid Tyson. Tyson's last fight if it wasn't the big Irishman.....who's name escapes me and same thing happened, so its MMA or Brain Surgery for the once great Mike Tyson
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I was at the gym last night and ESPN2 was showing a 26-year-old Lennox Lewis vs. a 35-year-old "Merciless" Ray Mercer. Lewis won on a split decision. Both his eyes were almost swollen shut. What a dog that guy was.
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I was at the gym last night and ESPN2 was showing a 26-year-old Lennox Lewis vs. a 35-year-old "Merciless" Ray Mercer. Lewis won on a split decision. Both his eyes were almost swollen shut. What a dog that guy was.
Even a washed up Ali was never knocked out (twice) the way Lennox was (Ali was only TKO'd). Ironic, "Lennox" is a popular brand of glassware and the guy had a glass jaw.
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Even a washed up Ali was never knocked out (twice) the way Lennox was (Ali was only TKO'd). Ironic, "Lennox" is a popular brand of glassware and the guy had a glass jaw.
Yeah. He was knocked out by Hasim Rahman. ::)
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ali vs tyson would have looked a lot like lewis tyson...
ali and lewis are both tall heavy weights that rely on the jab...but only thing is Ali's came quiker and he was lighter on his feet...UD Ali winning all rounds
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Tyson did have trouble with tall fighters who had good jabs, but when he fought Lewis his career was already over. Tyson in his prime was excellent at slipping jabs.
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Tyson in his prime was excellent at slipping jabs.
Yes, Tyson in his prime had fantastic head movement.
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Yes, Tyson in his prime had fantastic head movement.
I think Alis reach and speed and foot work would fustrate a young Tyson
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Ali, though past his prime, did well against Foreman who was pretty much the Tyson of his era. Wasn't a pretty fight but Ali showed the world he was the most brilliant boxer out there even though he was no longer the "best" boxer. I think that in his prime he could have handled Tyson (though Tyson was great as long as he was trained by Kevin Rooney).
Great point about Rooney. Tyson could not beat a good boxer. It was Douglass's jab that beat Tyson. Ali had a remarkable jab.
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Great point about Rooney. Tyson could not beat a good boxer. It was Douglass's jab that beat Tyson. Ali had a remarkable jab.
the best imo..pero he jabbed faster and with more freq than any heavy weight in history
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the best imo..pero he jabbed faster and with more freq than any heavy weight in history
I don't like Holmes, but he had a good jab, not as fast as Ali but maybe a little stiffer.
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This guy really was one of the best, if not, the best ever heavyweight.
Complete nonsense, and there was no bigger Tyson fan than me when he was an up-an-coming heavyweight in the mid 80's. He was a beast, but you have to evaluate him with consideration of the level of competition he fought. Impossible to rank him over Ali.
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Wanted to know has anyone here actually been to a Tyson fight live. Seeing him in his prime was unreal. I sat in the 5th row for the Bruno fight and you could literally hear the punch and the grunt from Bruno. In person there is nothing like watching him fight. And that fight was fixed too. We were about 99% sure of it.
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Wanted to know has anyone here actually been to a Tyson fight live. Seeing him in his prime was unreal. I sat in the 5th row for the Bruno fight and you could literally hear the punch and the grunt from Bruno. In person there is nothing like watching him fight. And that fight was fixed too. We were about 99% sure of it.
Didn't he break Bruno's jaw and his ribs? I think I remember Bruno having to get his mouth wired shut?
Regarding Buster Douglas, I think Tyson had already hired Don King at that point, fired Rooney, etc. That was the beginning of the end for Tyson.
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holyfield in his prime beats them both
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holyfield in his prime beats them both
YOU DO NOT BELONG IN THIS THREAD
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Check out this Tyson highlight clip. Remember when he said he threw "every punch with bad intentions"? Remember when he literally knocked Berbick silly with one hook to the head? (That one is one here.) I don't remember a heavyweight who ever hit this hard. Such a tragedy. So much potential. What a waste.
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Tyson had those idiots in his corner during the Douglas fight too. I judged a bikini contest in Ft, Meyers Florida with Trevor Berbick. he was fighting his first fight after he lost to Tyson. He sounded really dumb and his trainer told he lost because he had a cold or flu during the fight.
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Check out this Tyson highlight clip. Remember when he said he threw "every punch with bad intentions"? Remember when he literally knocked Berbick silly with one hook to the head? (That one is one here.) I don't remember a heavyweight who ever hit this hard. Such a tragedy. So much potential. What a waste.
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wow those were some top notch opponent's ::)holyfield fought higher level of competition than Tyson or Ali
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wow those were some top notch opponent's ::)holyfield fought higher level of competition than Tyson or Ali
when you finish swinging off of Holyfield's nuts...kill yourself
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wow those were some top notch opponent's ::)holyfield fought higher level of competition than Tyson or Ali
There have not been "top notch" heavyweights since Ali's days. Holyfield fought the same kind of dogs that Tyson did.
Which of Holyfield's opponents do you put in the class of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, and Shavers?
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people think ali is the greatest because they were told he was the greatest.it doesnt make it so.why no rematch with forman?because ali was smart enough to know he wouldnt fall for the rope a dope agin.ken norton beat ali as frazier did but you ever see those fights replayed just the fights he won. ali fought three or four fighters worth mentioning.I own dvds of about twenty ali fights some of which he obviously lost but judges gave him, most people havent even watched more than 2-3 of his fights tops they just go by what the media tells them.
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people think ali is the greatest because they were told he was the greatest.it doesnt make it so.why no rematch with forman?because ali was smart enough to know he wouldnt fall for the rope a dope agin.ken norton beat ali as frazier did but you ever see those fights replayed just the fights he won. ali fought three or four fighters worth mentioning.I own dvds of about twenty ali fights some of which he obviously lost but judges gave him, most people havent even watched more than 2-3 of his fights tops they just go by what the media tells them.
I've watched a bunch of Ali fights.
Which of Holyfield's opponents do you put in the class of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, and Shavers?
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I've watched a bunch of Ali fights.
Which of Holyfield's opponents do you put in the class of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, and Shavers?
Iron Mike of course
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I've watched a bunch of Ali fights.
Which of Holyfield's opponents do you put in the class of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, and Shavers?
we could argue all day about which fighters might be better than others but holyfield fought anyone and everyone during his era the overall list of opponets is stronger than ali.off the top of my head,Michael dokes,busterdouglas,georgeforman,johnruiz,larryholmes,riddickbowe,michaelmoorer,raymercer,miketyson, lennoxlewis.thats just the ones i can think of sure theres more.
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Iron Mike of course
True, except Mike was already with Don King at that point.
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we could argue all day about which fighters might be better than others but holyfield fought anyone and everyone during his era the overall list of opponets is stronger than ali.off the top of my head,Michael dokes,busterdouglas,georgeforman,johnruiz,larryholmes,riddickbowe,michaelmoorer,raymercer,miketyson, lennoxlewis.thats just the ones i can think of sure theres more.
I've seen all of those guys fight and none of them were great IMO (at least when they fought Holyfield). Douglas was a one hit wonder. Foreman was old and fat when he fought Holyfield. So was Holmes. Riddick Bowe had skills, but was never a great fighter. Michael Moorer was never really a true heavyweight IMO.
But you're right about arguing about this all day. Different people have different perceptions.
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I've watched a bunch of Ali fights.
Which of Holyfield's opponents do you put in the class of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, and Shavers?
Well done Beach Bum. When I was a kid, Ernie Shavers was my favorite fighter b/c he had such heavy hands.
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Well done Beach Bum. When I was a kid, Ernie Shavers was my favorite fighter b/c he had such heavy hands.
Ernie Shavers was scary. Do you guys think Tyson could have knocked out Randell Tex Cobb. He could take a punch bigtime. I met him a few times in the club I worked at and he really does have the biggest head of any human I have seen except for Andre the Giant.
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Ernie Shavers was scary. Do you guys think Tyson could have knocked out Randell Tex Cobb. He could take a punch bigtime. I met him a few times in the club I worked at and he really does have the biggest head of any human I have seen except for Andre the Giant.
Don't forget Scott Ledoux (the "Fighting Frenchman") AKA "the Human Punching Bag
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=11928&more=1
"The Fighting Frenchman: Scott LeDoux
02.08.07 - By Ted Sares: Scott LeDoux was a road warrior out of Minnesota who fought the very best during the golden age of heavyweights in the 70s. Big boppers like Frazier, Ali, Quarry, Norton, Foreman, Shavers, Chuvalo, Terrell, Mike Weaver, Jeff Merritt, Mac Foster, Joe Bugner, Leroy Jones, Jimmy Young, and Jimmy Ellis, among many others, roamed the landscape..."
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YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT?
Ali would have won the fight at the press conference.