Mike Tyson at his peak Vs Ali at his

[Fatpanda]

you are overreaching with this statement

you are overreaching with yours 

[Benny B]

you are overreaching with yours 

Which one?

[americanbulldog]

Could I beat Renzo Gracie?  Umm yeah ok    He's been training longer than I've been alive tough guy.  Now I'd put Shihan John Petrone up against him or Professor David James up against him in a heart beat and they'd probably kill the guy. 

OOoooo boy?  Renzo wasn't the nicest guy to come across in Rio, and he and his bro are known for getting into many an altercation.  Ryan was stabbed, bitten, etc.  He was a bad dude up to his death.  I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT PROFFESSOR JAMES, OR SHIHAN JOHN PETRONE would echo your sentiment if they were within earshot of Renzo. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

OOoooo boy?  Renzo wasn't the nicest guy to come across in Rio, and he and his bro are known for getting into many an altercation.  Ryan was stabbed, bitten, etc.  He was a bad dude up to his death.  I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT PROFFESSOR JAMES, OR SHIHAN JOHN PETRONE would echo your sentiment if they were within earshot of Renzo. 

ASK ANYONE WHO KNOWS AND THEY'LL TELL YOU!  Like I said ask any of the Gracies.  I'm done with this argument.  I'm made my points and others have made theirs.  It comes down to opinion.  I'm not familiar with how old Renzo is but David James is 50+ years old not a spring chicken.  If they are the same age Renzo would get seriously hurt.  Case closed. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

Look how stupid this shit is?  Sorry but either one would completely destroy Renzo Gracie. 

Sorry but I shouldn't expect a master in "wing chun" to understand much about real fighting. 

&feature=related

Like I said I posted both www.veearnisjitsu.com and www.defenseinstitute.com  You can voice your opinions to either Shihan Petrone or Professor James and they'll gladly counter any of your arguments, comment on Gracie BJJ, and explain to you why VAJ is a vastly superior street system. 

[onlyme]

Look how stupid this shit is?  Sorry but either one would completely destroy Renzo Gracie. 

Sorry but I shouldn't expect a master in "wing chun" to understand much about real fighting. 

&feature=related

Like I said I posted both www.veearnisjitsu.com and www.defenseinstitute.com  You can voice your opinions to either Shihan Petrone or Professor James and they'll gladly counter any of your arguments, comment on Gracie BJJ, and explain to you why VAJ is a vastly superior street system. 

Not knowing much about your fellow but is this style represented in the UFC and how many champions are there that practice this style.  It looks impressive but nothing spectacular especially when the opponent he is using are not doing much but standing there or moving in slow motion.  Anyone quick enough would knock him out easy and on the ground he is useless probably.  I only watched a little part of the videos but did I miss something.

[americanbulldog]

Look how stupid this shit is?  Sorry but either one would completely destroy Renzo Gracie. 

Sorry but I shouldn't expect a master in "wing chun" to understand much about real fighting. 

&feature=related

Like I said I posted both www.veearnisjitsu.com and www.defenseinstitute.com  You can voice your opinions to either Shihan Petrone or Professor James and they'll gladly counter any of your arguments, comment on Gracie BJJ, and explain to you why VAJ is a vastly superior street system. 

Uh, okay.  BJ Penn would mess up ANY VAJ fighter in the street.  Renzo is 41, Rickson is 50.  I give Professor James 0 chance of beating Rickson in a Vale Tudo style match.  They still do it in Brazil.  Fighting against a co-operative, non resisting opponent is easier than fighting against a live one.  Training WEKAF style escrima and training Dog Brothers is TWO different things.  NO pretty carenza, no slick abaniko, no guntings.  When a kamongong stick is whizzing by your head at 125 mph, and all you got on is a fencing mask and baseball gloves, EVERYTHING changes.  I have not had the pleasure of going to a gathering of the pack, but I have trained FULL CONTACT Kali, and brother, let me tell you it is MUCH different than performing sumbrada, hubud-lubud-ligot.  NO need to post at their website, I have trained with many a VAJ here in HAWAII (a melting pot of Filipino martial artists).  A lot of them even started doing BJJ with RELSON.  Before you make bold statements, I reccomend you get in the pool and try swimming.  Dry land swimming makes perfect sense, perfects techniques, but still isn't swimming.  All the Head Butts, Knees and Elbows are useless if you can't employ the techniques against LIVE, RESISTING OPPONENTS who are aware you plan on attacking them, and are AGGRESSIVE AND SKILLED.  And as you said, I am out. 

[OzmO]

Ali all the way.

He fought a similar fighter in Forman.

Ali would just dance around for 10 rounds and let Mike have it for the next 5.  (assuming it would be 15 rounds)

[Bill Loguidice]

I think it's a shame that neither boxer was able to be in a true "prime".  Ali's career was interrupted when he wasn't allowed to box for several years due to his refusing to fight in Vietnam (hell, he didn't even train much in that time).  Tyson was never the same after Cus died and he fired his original trainer, which was fairly early on in his heavyweight championship reign.  So we really don't know how good Ali could have been in that time or when Tyson was demolishing everyone until he lost focus/fire/the ability to train properly/whatever.  To Ali's advantage in this discussion though is that Ali both won and lost legendary fights against legendary boxers.  Tyson has far fewer tests, and far fewer tests where he was actually victorious.  Tyson was a powerful boxer, but Ali could take tremendous punishment and Tyson has never proven he could take a good beating.  Ali, much like Arnold, was great at the head games, which surely would have effected Tyson had they been contemporaries (and things like training and drug regimens being equal).

[onlyme]

I think it's a shame that neither boxer was able to be in a true "prime".  Ali's career was interrupted when he wasn't allowed to box for several years due to his refusing to fight in Vietnam (hell, he didn't even train much in that time).  Tyson was never the same after Cus died and he fired his original trainer, which was fairly early on in his heavyweight championship reign.  So we really don't know how good Ali could have been in that time or when Tyson was demolishing everyone until he lost focus/fire/the ability to train properly/whatever.  To Ali's advantage in this discussion though is that Ali both won and lost legendary fights against legendary boxers.  Tyson has far fewer tests, and far fewer tests where he was actually victorious.  Tyson was a powerful boxer, but Ali could take tremendous punishment and Tyson has never proven he could take a good beating.  Ali, much like Arnold, was great at the head games, which surely would have effected Tyson had they been contemporaries (and things like training and drug regimens being equal).

When Rooney left everything started to go downhill.  Atlas too.  Those idiots Mike had in his corner knew nothing about boxing.

[Dos Equis]

When Rooney left everything started to go downhill.  Atlas too.  Those idiots Mike had in his corner knew nothing about boxing.

I agree.  Getting rid of Rooney, firing Bill Cayton and replacing him with Don King were Tyson's worst mistakes.

Tyson in his prime was the most devastating puncher in the history of boxing.  He hit harder than Foreman and moved much better.  Ali could take a punch, but I'm not sure he would have held up in the first few rounds.  Tyson would have gotten through the rope-a-dope. 

I always thought Tyson hit so hard he had the potential to literally kill someone in the ring.  Remember that guy from England he fought whose jaw had to be wired after the fight?  Also broke his ribs.  Tyson was a beast.   

[MidniteRambo]

Ali.  Able to withstand and defuse similar power from a much bigger fighter (Foreman), similar power from a much smaller man would pose no great threat to the ultimate ring technician.  Ali would use his superior size and length to his advantage, frustrating Tyson and peppering him with jabs from the outside in the early rounds.  Tyson's primary weapon, intimidation, would be worthless against Ali.  In the later rounds, a psychologically defeated Tyson (see Tyson v. Holyfield fights) would essesntially quit, allowing Ali to step in and land enough blows that the referee would stop it.  Ali by 10 Round TKO.

[OzmO]

Ali.  Able to withstand and defuse similar power from a much bigger fighter (Foreman), similar power from a much smaller man would pose no great threat to the ultimate ring technician.  Ali would use his superior size and length to his advantage, frustrating Tyson and peppering him with jabs from the outside in the early rounds.  Tyson's primary weapon, intimidation, would be worthless against Ali.  In the later rounds, a psychologically defeated Tyson (see Tyson v. Holyfield fights) would essesntially quit, allowing Ali to step in and land enough blows that the referee would stop it.  Ali by 10 Round TKO.

well put.

[Dos Equis]

Ali.  Able to withstand and defuse similar power from a much bigger fighter (Foreman), similar power from a much smaller man would pose no great threat to the ultimate ring technician.  Ali would use his superior size and length to his advantage, frustrating Tyson and peppering him with jabs from the outside in the early rounds.  Tyson's primary weapon, intimidation, would be worthless against Ali.  In the later rounds, a psychologically defeated Tyson (see Tyson v. Holyfield fights) would essesntially quit, allowing Ali to step in and land enough blows that the referee would stop it.  Ali by 10 Round TKO.

Can't really argue with you.  Early rounds would favor Tyson, later rounds Ali. 

I do, however, see a big difference between Tyson in his prime and Foreman.  Tyson hit harder IMO, was much quicker, and was a better defender.   

[MidniteRambo]

Can't really argue with you.  Early rounds would favor Tyson, later rounds Ali. 

I do, however, see a big difference between Tyson in his prime and Foreman.  Tyson hit harder IMO, was much quicker, and was a better defender.   

You're definitely right about the speed, I'm not so sure about the power.  Big George could really bang, I'm even thinking in the twilight of his career when he decked Moorer.  The main point though was Ali could not be intimidated (even by Sonny Liston, one of the meanest, scariest men ever to lace up the gloves) which Tyson was highly dependent upon.

[El_Pajero]

Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.

[Benny B]

Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.

idiot

[MidniteRambo]

Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.

Foolishness.

[noworries]

Tyson would destroy Ali. Tyson has beaten boxers that have beaten Ali within a round. Even Tommy Morrison has beaten George Foreman. My wife is in the kitchen right now.

Holy macrel are you really that dumb or is this a joke.  Tyson beat the same guys Ali fought but 20 years later.  The valet guy could have beaten Holmes when he fought Tyson

[buffbodz]

Prop em up and he's still kick Tysons ass. TODAY!  Tyson= the most overated boxer for non boxing fans and kids who think they are.  Look back in history and watch Jack Johnson, Joe Frazer, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsy.  The list goes on and on.  Try looking up some boxing history before you put Tyson on a pedestal.

[buffbodz]

I'll re-phrase,

What I meant was Mike Tyson was a nut job and he had the killer mentality. He was a skilled boxer and more then what people give him credit for. Don't forget, when he fought Holyfield and Lewis it was after a 3 year lay off from the sport as he was in prison and had his own personal problems. But watch his early fights before prison. he massacred everything and everyone in his path. He's knocked the shit out of boxers a foot taller then him clear across the ring. Most of his fights were all 1st round ko's.

Yea, but these were all tomato cans.  They weren't household names even in their own household. He fought every 2 weeks with whoever Cus wanted to weed out of the bottom of the division.  The first name fighter he fought was Mavis Frazer and even he was no top 10 fighter.  Boxers like Mitch Green and James Tillis gave him fits before giving up.   Check the records of some or these guys that were a foot taller than Tyson and you'll see records like 5-17 2ko's and 4-13 with 1ko.  Tyson was good, but not great.

[Dos Equis]

Prop em up and he's still kick Tysons ass. TODAY!  Tyson= the most overated boxer for non boxing fans and kids who think they are.  Look back in history and watch Jack Johnson, Joe Frazer, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsy.  The list goes on and on.  Try looking up some boxing history before you put Tyson on a pedestal.

I disagree.  Tyson in his prime with his team of Rooney, etc. would have been right in the mix banging with Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, etc. 

I watched fights of all those guys.  It was boxing's greatest era for heavyweights.  Hard to overstate what a devasting puncher Tyson was in his prime. 

[buffbodz]

I disagree.  Tyson in his prime with his team of Rooney, etc. would have been right in the mix banging with Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers, etc. 

I watched fights of all those guys.  It was boxest greatest era for heavyweights.  Hard to overstate what a devasting puncher Tyson was in his prime. 

You're talking boxers of the 70's.  What about Joe Louis or Rocky Marcino?I know this discussion means nothing, but IMO none of the fighters I've mentioned would of been ko'd by Evander, Buster, Danny Williams or even Lenox Lewis.  Tyson was the best in a poor time in the heavyweight division.

[Dos Equis]

You're talking boxers of the 70's.  What about Joe Louis or Rocky Marchino?  I know this discussion means nothing, but IMO none of the fighters I've mentioned would of been ko'd by Evander, Buster, Danny Williams or even Lenox Lewis.  Tyson was the best in a poor time in the heavyweight division.

Louis and Marciano were great fighters, but they were too small.   

I agree the heavyweight division was poor and has been since Tyson's days.  I don't even watch boxing anymore.   

Holyfiled would have been decent with those guys from the 70s, but not Lennox "glass jaw" Lewis.  Buster Douglas was a one hit wonder.  Don't really know anything about Danny Williams. 

[buffbodz]

Danny Williams was a bum brought over from the UK to give Tyson some confidence, but instead it backfired and he kid Tyson.  Tyson's last fight if it wasn't the big Irishman.....who's name escapes me and same thing happened, so  its MMA or Brain Surgery for the once great Mike Tyson