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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: big L dawg on December 28, 2008, 10:55:20 AM
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I screwed up and originally posted this on the religion board.What's your take are we the only life in the universe?Or is there others?and have they visited earth?
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no
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no
Proof?
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no
I see you put alot of thought into it.care to elaborate any.
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If one considers the vast amount of solar systems, galaxies with literally millions of Planets, it would be arrogant to not consider that life may sprung up elsewhere. However, unless they've technologically solved the problem of interstellar travel, we may never meet any other beings.
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If one considers the vast amount of solar systems, galaxies with literally millions of Planets, it would be arrogant to not consider that life may sprung up elsewhere. However, unless they've technologically solved the problem of interstellar travel, we may never meet any other beings.
i can agree with that also you should state whether you mean life, or intelligent life...there was some guy who stated it like this
to calculate the odds of us ever seeing another intelligent species is slim the odds of there being life other than on earth, with the odds that that life is intelligent, with the odds of us being able to find them, with the odds that our technology can reach them either physically or otherwise, with the odds of them having the technology to find and intupret or signals, with the odds that they would actually respond is astronomical...but at the same time there is the human race on earth so we know that it is possible.
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i can agree with that also you should state whether you mean life, or intelligent life...there was some guy who stated it like this
to calculate the odds of us ever seeing another intelligent species is slim the odds of there being life other than on earth, with the odds that that life is intelligent, with the odds of us being able to find them, with the odds that our technology can reach them either physically or otherwise, with the odds of them having the technology to find and intupret or signals, with the odds that they would actually respond is astronomical...but at the same time there is the human race on earth so we know that it is possible.
Well, if one came to our planet when life started, they would probably have found just basic, single celled organisms. However, in later years with evolution, intelligent life emerged. This same cycle could replicate itself on another planet.
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I screwed up and originally posted this on the religion board.What's your take are we the only life in the universe?Or is there others?and have they visited earth?
If you have ever taken an astronomy class in college then you know there is life on other planets. There are simply too many galaxies with stars and attendant solar systems for earth to be the only planet with life. So, yes, there is certainly life out there—lots of it. Undoubtedly, some of it is far more advanced than life on earth while others are not as advanced.
I am certain there are star faring races that routinely move between planets and solar systems. There may even be communities among planets like the Federation in Star Trek or the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.
Are aliens aware of us? Maybe. Have they come to earth? I have no reason to think so. We are too primitive to warrant serious attention from advanced civilizations.
In both technology and social development we are not yet worthy of contact with alien visitors. Aliens that have the technology to come here also have the technology to observe us without detection. They could easily study us from a distance, learn our languages and customs, monitor our radio/tv broadcasts and our global internet. Having done so, they would quickly learn we are deeply divided over superficial things like international borders, gender, race, sexuality, religion, and on and on. Having observed that we can not even get along with one another why would aliens (who would certainly not look like us) decide that we could handle contact with beings that would certainly look like freaks (to us).
I am certain there are plenty of advanced civilizations out there but I do not think earth is on their radar screen for now. We are not technologically and socially ready to handle contact with aliens.
Even in Star Trek (TNG) they limit First Contact to new planets that have developed warp drive (light speed) technology. One episode in particular deals with this subject http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68484.html
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the somewhat answer to your question..
The drake equation
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html
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If you have ever taken an astronomy class in college then you know there is life on other planets. There are simply too many galaxies with stars and attendant solar systems for earth to be the only planet with life. So, yes, there is certainly life out there—lots of it. Undoubtedly, some of it is far more advanced than life on earth while others are not as advanced.
I am certain there are star faring races that routinely move between planets and solar systems. There may even be communities among planets like the Federation in Star Trek or the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.
Are aliens aware of us? Maybe. Have they come to earth? I have no reason to think so. We are too primitive to warrant serious attention from advanced civilizations.
In both technology and social development we are not yet worthy of contact with alien visitors. Aliens that have the technology to come here also have the technology to observe us without detection. They could easily study us from a distance, learn our languages and customs, monitor our radio/tv broadcasts and our global internet. Having done, so they would quickly learn we are deeply divided over superficial things like international borders, gender, race, sexuality, religion, and on and on. Having observed that we can not even get along with one another why would aliens (who would certainly not look like us) decide that we could handle contact with beings that would certainly look like freaks (to us).
I am certain there are plenty of advanced civilizations out there but I do not think earth is on their radar screen for now. We are not technologically and socially ready to handle contact with aliens.
Even in Star Trek (TNG) they limit First Contact to new planets that have developed warp drive (light speed) technology. One episode in particular deals with this subject http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68484.html
Quite possibly your best post to date.
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do you guys think we will ever get our shit together enough to colonize mars?
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there is a good possibility that the universe is a lot older than the estimated 14 billion light years, so considering that info, it seems silly to think that there is no other life form in the universe (intelligent or otherwise).
this is my favorite video on youtube. i watch this about twice a month or so, just to remind myself how small we really are.
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If you have ever taken an astronomy class in college then you know there is life on other planets. There are simply too many galaxies with stars and attendant solar systems for earth to be the only planet with life. So, yes, there is certainly life out there—lots of it. Undoubtedly, some of it is far more advanced than life on earth while others are not as advanced.
I am certain there are star faring races that routinely move between planets and solar systems. There may even be communities among planets like the Federation in Star Trek or the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.
Are aliens aware of us? Maybe. Have they come to earth? I have no reason to think so. We are too primitive to warrant serious attention from advanced civilizations.
In both technology and social development we are not yet worthy of contact with alien visitors. Aliens that have the technology to come here also have the technology to observe us without detection. They could easily study us from a distance, learn our languages and customs, monitor our radio/tv broadcasts and our global internet. Having done, so they would quickly learn we are deeply divided over superficial things like international borders, gender, race, sexuality, religion, and on and on. Having observed that we can not even get along with one another why would aliens (who would certainly not look like us) decide that we could handle contact with beings that would certainly look like freaks (to us).
I am certain there are plenty of advanced civilizations out there but I do not think earth is on their radar screen for now. We are not technologically and socially ready to handle contact with aliens.
Even in Star Trek (TNG) they limit First Contact to new planets that have developed warp drive (light speed) technology. One episode in particular deals with this subject http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68484.html
are you possibly referring to type III civilization aliens? just by pure mathematical odds, I believe they exist.
our type 0 asses are less than dirt in the universal scale.
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I screwed up and originally posted this on the religion board.What's your take are we the only life in the universe?Or is there others?and have they visited earth?
its long....but captivating..
i urge u 2 watch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1485155465058882626&ei=goJYSaq5M46cqALgsdX2Cw&q=secret+space
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Yes. They have met with humans at Area 51.
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Yes. They have met with humans at Area 51.
"After all, we powerless mere mortals are way too dumb to be trusted with information on questions like ‘is there anyone out there?’ We would rather leave that to the ‘elected’ elite that control our lives."
http://www.allnewsweb.com/page1241241.php
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Scroll down a bit to read the article:
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1181.htm
What could it be that she has discovered? Could it be true that our DNA is of alien descense?
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"After all, we powerless mere mortals are way too dumb to be trusted with information on questions like ‘is there anyone out there?’ We would rather leave that to the ‘elected’ elite that control our lives."
http://www.allnewsweb.com/page1241241.php
Very interesting. I'm Australian, so it's very interesting to hear Aussie politicians talk about ufo's and extraterrestrial life and so forth. 8)
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its long....but captivating..
i urge u 2 watch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1485155465058882626&ei=goJYSaq5M46cqALgsdX2Cw&q=secret+space
so mason's worship satan huh. :-\
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so mason's worship satan huh. :-\
Jay Cutler does!! :o
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i watch this about twice a month or so, just to remind myself how small we really are.
If people could realize just how small we really are in the grand scheme of things, many might stop acting like such a-holes toward each other and the planet that keeps them alive. It is human nature to think everything revolves around them, literally and figuratively.
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If there was proof of intelligent life or if intelligent life visited our planet.what do you think would be the outcome regarding how we view basically everything.from foreign affairs and how people treat each other (racism,foreigners) to religion.I mean that would be a serious wake up call for those people that think in absolutes.
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there is a good possibility that the universe is a lot older than the estimated 14 billion light years, so considering that info, it seems silly to think that there is no other life form in the universe (intelligent or otherwise).
this is my favorite video on youtube. i watch this about twice a month or so, just to remind myself how small we really are.
Yikes!
According to that video, our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy.
We all know that we are in the Milky Way galaxy, right? Perhaps some of you have heard of the Andromeda galaxy; it is the spiral galaxy nearest to the Milky Way. Well there are millions and millions of other galaxies out there!
Hmm, I wonder if there are any body building aliens out there? :P
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Any of you ever use Google Sky? It's built into Google Earth and allows you to roam the cosmos.
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If it was provine the intelligent life was out there or if intelligent life visited our planet.what do you think would be the outcome regarding how we view basically everything.from foreign affairs and how people treat each other (racism,foreigners) to religion.I mean that would be a serious wake up call for those people that think in absolutes.
It may not be as revolutionary as you might think. There have been other wake up calls throughout human history and they haven’t necessarily changed hearts and minds overnight for the better. Hard core religious people, for example, would simply integrate the reality of alien life into their various belief systems.
It is tempting to think that mankind would set aside our differences and realize our common interests, once we realized that we are not alone in the galaxy, but I doubt that would be the case; bigots and conservatives (funny how often these two go together), for example, would continue to cling to their prejudices.
Science fiction novels and films often portray mankind banding together when earth is attacked by aliens. In theory, this makes sense since “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Unfortunately, if any aliens came here with hostile intentions, we would be sitting ducks at our current level of technology. We can barely get to the moon and we are still using handguns as weapons. We have not even learned how to truly harness solar power. ☹
The Dyson Sphere is a neat idea, but it will always be in the realm of fiction. By contrast, I can see quantum leaps in solar panel and battery technology over the next one to two hundred years that would allow us to power our homes and cars with solar power.
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Quite possibly your best post to date.
Here is a better one
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=134869.msg1943423#msg1943423
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It may not be as revolutionary as you might think. There have been other wake up calls throughout human history and they haven’t necessarily changed hearts and minds overnight for the better. Hard core religious people, for example, would simply integrate the reality of alien life into their various belief systems.
It is tempting to think that mankind would set aside our differences and realize our common interests, once we realized that we are not alone in the galaxy, but I doubt that would be the case; bigots and conservatives (funny how often these two go together), for example, would continue to cling to their prejudices.
Science fiction novels and films often portray mankind banding together when earth is attacked by aliens. In theory, this makes sense since “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Unfortunately, if any aliens came here with hostile intentions, we would be sitting ducks at our current level of technology. We can barely get to the moon and we are still using handguns as weapons. We have not even learned how to truly harness solar power. ☹
The Dyson Sphere is a neat idea, but it will always be in the realm of fiction. By contrast, I can see quantum leaps in solar panel and battery technology over the next one to two hundred years that would allow us to power our homes and cars with solar power.
yea but what if it got to the point were people was living on other planets.wouldn't that throw the whole end of the world,God coming back to earth judgment day stuff out the window.
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yea but what if it got to the point were people was living on other planets.wouldn't that throw the whole end of the world,God coming back to earth judgment day stuff out the window.
No. Not for people who choose to believe--and there will always be those people. Some will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future/reality, but many will keep their head in the sand no matter what. Remember that story last year of the parents who refused to take their sick daughter to the hospital for medical care insisting that God would cure her? She ended up dying.
Parents Pick Prayer Over Docs; Girl Dies
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=207732.0
Even on this board you can read posts from people who insist that I am a sinner, am going to hell, or shouldn't be allowed to adopt/raise kids because I don't follow their religious beliefs. The funny thing is even they can't follow their religious beliefs ::)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=127046.msg1811391#msg1811391
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No. Not for people who choose to believe--and there will always be those people. Some will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future/reality, but many will keep their head in the sand no matter what. Remember that story last year of the parents who refused to take their sick daughter to the hospital for medical care insisting that God would cure her? She ended up dying.
Parents Pick Prayer Over Docs; Girl Dies
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=207732.0
Even on this board you can read posts from people who insist that I am a sinner, am going to hell, or shouldn't be allowed to adopt/raise kids because I don't follow their religious beliefs. The funny thing is even they can't follow their religious beliefs ::)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=127046.msg1811391#msg1811391
yea I see what you are saying.I guess some people will always need that security blanket called religion.
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guys...this question is too big for all of us...the universe is so vast and limitless.....I tend not to believe that there are other intelligent life out there..maybe we are a really big mistake......I don't believe that there are other advanced civilizations out there....maybe there could be some plants or organisms...or things crawling around....but believe me NO ONE is visiting earth since no one will ever be able to travel at warp speed......
do you know what kind of vehicle you would need to travel at warp speed?...nothing made of nuts and bolts (as our space shuttles and rockets are made of) would be able to withstand the incredible G-forces that would be created while traveling at the speed of light...
also, you would need a fuel source that is totally and epically phenomenal to power us that fast and far..it would basically have to be some type of unlimited renewable power and anything that powerful would probably be unstable as hell...how could u contain it?....it certainly wouldn't be like having gas in a gastank...
We'll never know....and maybe it's better this way.....I hope we do find out...since it would debunk most of the religious crap we have had to put up with.....man has done well with exploring the cosmos but I really believe they have reached their limitations in terms of space travel...oh and one last thing....if man were to travel that far into space they would be subjected to massive amounts of Gamma radiation which would be deadly to humans over time.....the best we can hope to do is colonize other plantes so that the human race has a chance at survival if a huge disaster were to occur on earth....such as a meteor strike....in order to survive the human race must colonize other planets...just like roaches have done on earth....they have colonized every city, state, country...thats why it's so darn hard to get rid of them...we have to become the roaches of the universe ;D
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I don't mean to sound too harsh, but you would have to be a narrow-minded idiot with a very limited intellectual capacity to believe earth contains all the lifeforms in the entire universe.
Our universe is so vast we can neither measure it nor comprehend it. To think our little selves sitting here on this little planet are the only life in the entire thing is despicable.
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Debussey thinks there are intelligence out there.
And Debussey thinks the "answers" to the questions humans often asks = too twisted for humans to properly understand, due to our limited intelligence. Only when humans "upgrade" themselves and perhaps transform into other and more advanced life-forms via technology will we have a chance of truly comprehending what = going on.
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guys...this question is too big for all of us...the universe is so vast and limitless.....I tend not to believe that there are other intelligent life out there..maybe we are a really big mistake......I don't believe that there are other advanced civilizations out there....maybe there could be some plants or organisms...or things crawling around....but believe me NO ONE is visiting earth since no one will ever be able to travel at warp speed......
do you know what kind of vehicle you would need to travel at warp speed?...nothing made of nuts and bolts (as our space shuttles and rockets are made of) would be able to withstand the incredible G-forces that would be created while traveling at the speed of light...
also, you would need a fuel source that is totally and epically phenomenal to power us that fast and far..it would basically have to be some type of unlimited renewable power and anything that powerful would probably be unstable as hell...how could u contain it?....it certainly wouldn't be like having gas in a gastank...
We'll never know....and maybe it's better this way.....I hope we do find out...since it would debunk most of the religious crap we have had to put up with.....man has done well with exploring the cosmos but I really believe they have reached their limitations in terms of space travel...oh and one last thing....if man were to travel that far into space they would be subjected to massive amounts of Gamma radiation which would be deadly to humans over time.....the best we can hope to do is colonize other plantes so that the human race has a chance at survival if a huge disaster were to occur on earth....such as a meteor strike....in order to survive the human race must colonize other planets...just like roaches have done on earth....they have colonized every city, state, country...thats why it's so darn hard to get rid of them...we have to become the roaches of the universe ;D
You have a very small mind and no sense of history. :'(
Remember, the idea of human flight was once thought to be quite fanciful. Today thousands of flights crisscross the globe every day.
The very idea of a land line telephone was once mocked; today virtually everyone (even poor people) carry and use a cell phone.
Have you ever used an eight track tape player? We have gone from 8-track tapes, to albums, to cassette tapes, to compact disks. When CDs started to become popular in the 1980’s I was a teenager, but even then I could see the technology was immature; I said to a friend of mine at the time that “this disk can hold a lot more data.” Even as a kid, I theorized that 10-100 times as much data could be stored on that disk. My friend laughed at me and told me I didn’t know what I was talking about. Today, we have DVDs and BluRay disks.
Have you ever used a device that was powered by sunlight? A solar powered calculator perhaps? The solar panel technology we have today is still in its infancy; imagine what will be possible when we improve the ability of solar panels to collect and store energy, say, 1000 times more efficiently than we can today?
The question of life on other planets may be too big for you but it is not too big for some of us.
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so mason's worship satan huh. :-\
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8768114400602619096&ei=1qpaSfm2N4iarwKqk-3LBg&q=free+mason
u tell me
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8768114400602619096&ei=1qpaSfm2N4iarwKqk-3LBg&q=free+mason
u tell me
I don't believe in god or satan.and I don't think a group as large as the mason's worship satan.
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yea I see what you are saying.I guess some people will always need that security blanket called religion.
In far too many cases, it is an insecurity blanket. :'(
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I don't mean to sound too harsh, but you would have to be a narrow-minded idiot with a very limited intellectual capacity to believe earth contains all the lifeforms in the entire universe.
Our universe is so vast we can neither measure it nor comprehend it. To think our little selves sitting here on this little planet are the only life in the entire thing is despicable.
Dude...you nor anyone has any proof whatsoever that there is other life in this vast universe..we have hypothetical computer models which presume there is but I never said there wasn't any life....I said there is probably plants or microbes or crawly things, but nothing intelligent and definitely nothing out there which can be considered advanced enough to communicate with us or visit earth.....besides.....if there are other intelligent beings out there and we can never ever meet due to the vastness of the universe, then what does it matter???..does a falling tree make a sound in the forest when no one is there to hear it??..it doesn't matter.....same for if there are other intelligent beings out there..if we can't see them..communicate with them...vist them, then for all intents and purposes, they aren't there
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Dude...you nor anyone has any proof whatsoever that there is other life in this vast universe..we have hypothetical computer models which presume there is but I never said there wasn't any life....I said there is probably plants or microbes or crawly things, but nothing intelligent and definitely nothing out there which can be considered advanced enough to communicate with us or visit earth.....besides.....if there are other intelligent beings out there and we can never ever meet due to the vastness of the universe, then what does it matter???..does a falling tree make a sound in the forest when no one is there to hear it??..it doesn't matter.....same for if there are other intelligent beings out there..if we can't see them..communicate with them...vist them, then for all intents and purposes, they aren't there
you don't think technology will ever advance enough to travel to other galaxis?
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you don't think technology will ever advance enough to travel to other galaxis?
As I said, he has a very small mind and no sense of history.
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guys...this question is too big for all of us...the universe is so vast and limitless.....I tend not to believe that there are other intelligent life out there..maybe we are a really big mistake......I don't believe that there are other advanced civilizations out there....maybe there could be some plants or organisms...or things crawling around....but believe me NO ONE is visiting earth since no one will ever be able to travel at warp speed......
do you know what kind of vehicle you would need to travel at warp speed?...nothing made of nuts and bolts (as our space shuttles and rockets are made of) would be able to withstand the incredible G-forces that would be created while traveling at the speed of light...
also, you would need a fuel source that is totally and epically phenomenal to power us that fast and far..it would basically have to be some type of unlimited renewable power and anything that powerful would probably be unstable as hell...how could u contain it?....it certainly wouldn't be like having gas in a gastank...
We'll never know....and maybe it's better this way.....I hope we do find out...since it would debunk most of the religious crap we have had to put up with.....man has done well with exploring the cosmos but I really believe they have reached their limitations in terms of space travel...oh and one last thing....if man were to travel that far into space they would be subjected to massive amounts of Gamma radiation which would be deadly to humans over time.....the best we can hope to do is colonize other plantes so that the human race has a chance at survival if a huge disaster were to occur on earth....such as a meteor strike....in order to survive the human race must colonize other planets...just like roaches have done on earth....they have colonized every city, state, country...thats why it's so darn hard to get rid of them...we have to become the roaches of the universe ;D
Very limited thinking.
Your whole post relies on the premise that the human lifeform will have the same biological "setup" and the same intelligence at a point in time where we are trying to travel outside of our solar system... That = just wrong. In 20 - 50 years, humans will be able to modify themselves, via genetic engineering, and perhaps via nanotechnology. (The concept of a "cyborg" will become very real). In 10000 years or something, humans will probably be vastly different from today.
Debussey has no desire to pick the rest of your post into pieces, but let's press the issue firther:
We don't know if consciousness is a "thing" in itself or if it is something that spontaneously occurs once a given system has reached a certain degree of complexity, or if a given system has achieved a specific structure/configuration. If the latter is true, there is eventually nothing that = stopping us from developing an artificial intelligence (due to the exponential growth in computing power, given that Moores law don't break down completely) that has this complexity or "configuration" and putting it on some sort of computational substrate that = not requiring much energy at all. This computational substrate will most likely also have computational powers that goes FAR beyond what the human brain can do.
Voila', now you have a "non-biological" entity that = conscious, probably way more intelligent that a human, and far better suited for space travel. Since this entity don't consume the resources a human need, and since it = way more intelligent, it can probably invent better solutions to travel problems faster and so on. It might not be "us", but if the technology first = invented, transforming humans into non-biological entities might be possible.
The morale of this post? Don't analyze situations that will occur far into the future with the limitations of todays technology. That = simply stupid.
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do you know what kind of vehicle you would need to travel at warp speed?...nothing made of nuts and bolts (as our space shuttles and rockets are made of) would be able to withstand the incredible G-forces that would be created while traveling at the speed of light...
also, you would need a fuel source that is totally and epically phenomenal to power us that fast and far..it would basically have to be some type of unlimited renewable power and anything that powerful would probably be unstable as hell...how could u contain it?....it certainly wouldn't be like having gas in a gastank...
You make me laugh.
::)
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you don't think technology will ever advance enough to travel to other galaxis?
No I don't.....too complicated...too expensive... and nothing can come out of it so therefore the population won't except us pouring trillions of dollars into a sinkhole not knowing what we will get from it and not while so many problems exist on earth that need to be addressed......
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As I said, he has a very small mind and no sense of history.
I do have a sense of history BAY.....we were supposed to live in a utopia by the year 2000, remember...no war and practically no disease???..we were supposed to have the 3 or 4 day workweek....and flying cars..remember that?..thats what we all learrned in school in the 60's and 70's...we were supposed to have colonized the moon by now..remember that?..none of this has happened and is not even remotely possible......I do have a sense of histiory...I remember all the scientific promises that were made that weren't kept.....same with space travel and stuff like that...it MIGHT happen...but it will be so far in the future it won't matter to us
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I don't believe in god or satan.and I don't think a group as large as the mason's worship satan.
the whole video aint exactly "om" ..but it does make some good points about hitlers UFO program...
nowif you r patient evough and know a bit of newtonian physics..watch this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8524267568796529301&ei=tFVdSe29FIvCrQKx8uWKBw&q=nasa+ufo
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I don't believe in god or satan.and I don't think a group as large as the mason's worship satan.
Two entities that are in collusion together...
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I think its highly likely that there is massive amounts of life in the universe...Unless of course the universe doesn't really exist and we are all just looking at a hologram...
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sorry to jump in like this: they have found simple biological forms on Mars, if I'm not mistaken, but that is hardly surprising, since Mars has water (ice) and is in fact quite similar in structure to earth, only in a different stage of development (either earlier or later than our earth today)
Important point here is that the stars and planets and nebula gases and so on ARE ALL LIFE!
Biological life, that is - life like one on our earth - may or may not exist in similar forms somewhere else but the probability is very high it is not in the same state as ours (i.e. either on the level of micro organisms or in postmortem decay).
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sorry to jump in like this: they have found simple biological forms on Mars, if I'm not mistaken, but that is hardly surprising, since Mars has water (ice) and is in fact quite similar in structure to earth, only in a different stage of development (either earlier or later than our earth today)
Important point here is that the stars and planets and nebula gases and so on ARE ALL LIFE!
Biological life, that is - life like one on our earth - may or may not exist in similar forms somewhere else but the probability is very high it is not in the same state as ours (i.e. either on the level of micro organisms or in postmortem decay).
Excellent point. There is more than one way to conceptualize life, but I think it is fair to say the original poster was referring to organic/intelligent life as we know it.
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Yikes!
According to that video, our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy.
We all know that we are in the Milky Way galaxy, right? Perhaps some of you have heard of the Andromeda galaxy; it is the spiral galaxy nearest to the Milky Way. Well there are millions and millions of other galaxies out there!
Actually billions, and that's what we know of so far. We also now know planets are very common and over 100 found so far outside our solar system. The math/odds that there is not life on other planets approaches zero real fast when you are working with those types of numbers. Whether or not any of them have visited us, is a totally different issue.
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.does a falling tree make a sound in the forest when no one is there to hear it??..
Yes, yes it does. No human needed for sound to take place. It's that type of ignorant human-centric thinking that has held humanity back all through history. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition for proving the earth revolves around the sun vs the opinion of the time that everything revolved around the earth, because it is the tendency of human beings to assume everything revolves around them.
If you don't know anything about cosmology, physics, the numbers being worked with, etc., then your opinion on the potential for life on other planets os just the usual human-centric rambling which rejects what it does not understand. The tree in the woods comment exposes total self absorbed human centric thinking.
The simple numbers at this point, with the recent discover planets are indeed very common, makes it improbable life on other planets, of various kinds, does not exist. Even the most conservative scientists will admit that. We are in fact situated in a fairly young area of the universe. Imagine a civilization that had a million years or so head start on us. Their understanding of physics, etc, would make us look like monkeys at best.
Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.
We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)
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Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.
Exactly. i love it when simpletons are limiting potential advanced civilizations' ability to travel to only our understanding of technology and physics. Aliens probably laugh at our "we can only go as fast as the speed of light" rule.
:D
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Yes, yes it does. No human needed for sound to take place. It's that type of ignorant human-centric thinking that has held humanity back all through history. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition for proving the earth revolves around the sun vs the opinion of the time that everything revolved around the earth, because it is the tendency of human beings to assume everything revolves around them.
If you don't know anything about cosmology, physics, the numbers being worked with, etc., then your opinion on the potential for life on other planets os just the usual human-centric rambling which rejects what it does not understand. The tree in the woods comment exposes total self absorbed human centric thinking.
The simple numbers at this point, with the recent discover planets are indeed very common, makes it improbable life on other planets, of various kinds, does not exist. Even the most conservative scientists will admit that. We are in fact situated in a fairly young area of the universe. Imagine a civilization that had a million years or so head start on us. Their understanding of physics, etc, would make us look like monkeys at best.
Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.
We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)
Excellent post.
You could compare Galileo to Copernicus in that he was in fear of his life when he realized Aristotle and Ptolemy's universe was indeed wrong based on his studies. I can very much appreciate those two as I appreciate folks today like Kaku, Hawking, DeGrasse Tyson, etc.
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>our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy.
How does one write out that number?
500 five hundred
500,000 five hundred thousand
500,000,000 five hundred million
500,000,000,000 five hundred billion
500,000,000,000,000 five hundred trillion
500,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quadrillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quintillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred sextillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred septillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred octillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,five hundred nonillion
Do I have that right? That’s as high as I can go; math was never my subject. :(
How does one write out five hundred thousand million? My guess would be 500,000,000,000,000. Is that right? Does five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion? ???
Suddenly, I feel so small. :'(
(then I look at my peter and I feel big again) ;D
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Yes, yes it does. No human needed for sound to take place. It's that type of ignorant human-centric thinking that has held humanity back all through history. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition for proving the earth revolves around the sun vs the opinion of the time that everything revolved around the earth, because it is the tendency of human beings to assume everything revolves around them.
If you don't know anything about cosmology, physics, the numbers being worked with, etc., then your opinion on the potential for life on other planets os just the usual human-centric rambling which rejects what it does not understand. The tree in the woods comment exposes total self absorbed human centric thinking.
The simple numbers at this point, with the recent discover planets are indeed very common, makes it improbable life on other planets, of various kinds, does not exist. Even the most conservative scientists will admit that. We are in fact situated in a fairly young area of the universe. Imagine a civilization that had a million years or so head start on us. Their understanding of physics, etc, would make us look like monkeys at best.
Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.
We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)
Very good post I will admit...BUT..despite your high -minded scientic words of wisdom it's all STILL hypothetical and we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours until we all see proof.....and there is none and probably never will be......and also..I DID say there could be life...plants....crawly things..bacteria..etc... ..I just don't believe no how no way that there are advanced civilizations out there running around the cosmos...sorry....we cannot break the speed of light...it ain't happening..and again..if we did, with what fuel source and with what kind of craft that won't shake apart???
hope this helps.
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Very good post I will admit...BUT..despite your high -minded scientic words of wisdom it's all STILL hypothetical
What is? That trees falling make noise regardless of there being a person to hear it, or that the simple numbers we are talking about makes the probability of their not being life on other planets close to zero? Neither of those hypothetical.
are and we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours until we all see proof.
You don't present a theory, you made (incorrect) statements of opinion. You did not counter anything I said with any counter theory other then to express the opinion you don't think, in spite of the numbers, there is life on other planets. In scientific terms, most people don't actually understand what the term theory really means and how to use it correctly in a sentence
....and there is none and probably never will be...
It's impossible to know the future, only the trends/directions science is trying to follow, and there is no reason to believe, given the amazing advances in technology, some proof of life elsewhere may happen in our life time, or it may never happen. No one can say, but a typical human-centric position is to assume because we can't show it (due to the limitations of our current technology) it has any effects on the creatures looking back at us! ;D
...and also..I DID say there could be life...plants....crawly things..bacteria..etc... ..I just don't believe no how no way that there are advanced civilizations out there running around the cosmos...sorry.
Nothing to be sorry about. You don't "believe" there is based on anything in particular, and I "believe" the probability says there is based on the shear numbers being worked with.
...we cannot break the speed of light...it ain't happening..and again..if we did, with what fuel source and with what kind of craft that won't shake apart???
Already stated, speed of light will never be part of the solution in terms of any real star to star travel, unless you were to either (1) find a way to put people in stasis or (2) built huge arc ships that could sustain a population for very long periods of time. Both are within our technological abilities.
There are various avenues always under investigation, that is indeed theoretical at this time, and will remain so for a long time, unless some breakthrough were to happen, which is also possible. Science tends to have big breakthroughs in fits and starts, it's never been a linear thing.
hope this helps.
How could it? ::)
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Very good post I will admit...BUT..despite your high -minded scientic words of wisdom it's all STILL hypothetical and we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours until we all see proof.....and there is none and probably never will be......and also..I DID say there could be life...plants....crawly things..bacteria..etc... ..I just don't believe no how no way that there are advanced civilizations out there running around the cosmos...sorry....we cannot break the speed of light...it ain't happening..and again..if we did, with what fuel source and with what kind of craft that won't shake apart???
hope this helps.
you don't BELIEVE no how no way there are other civilizations out there.until we all see proof....dude I hope your not a religious man.Your sounding ignorant enough as it is.
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Aliens probably laugh at our "we can only go as fast as the speed of light" rule.
Its not a "rule" - it's a mathematical proposition, which so far it has been impossible to refute...mathematically, at least
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you know, I'm happy you responded to this post because it shows how we agree rather than disagree.....we are actually closer in agreement than you might think..it's just semanticcs that separate us
What is? That trees falling make noise regardless of there being a person to hear it, or that the simple numbers we are talking about makes the probability of their not being life on other planets close to zero? Neither of those hypothetical.
in this regard again my theory is as good as yours.....you only say a little bit more than I do...you say there is the PROBABILITY that there is life on other planets based on the sheer number of planets...again you offer a mathematical theory of probability to suggest the possibility of life...but probability is just that...a theory...to try to predict that something COULD occur..not that it will or has..it just projects the chance of that happening....your theory is not the CONCRETE PROOF you are trying to make it out to be..I could use the theory of probability as well to refute your claim, but it would take up too much time here
You don't present a theory, you made (incorrect) statements of opinion. You did not counter anything I said with any counter theory other then to express the opinion you don't think, in spite of the numbers, there is life on other planets. In scientific terms, most people don't actually understand what the term theory really means and how to use it correctly in a sentence
to reiterate, you didn';t exactly come up with a theory yourself..just used mathematical probability....which again I could use as well...you still present no scientific evidence
It's impossible to know the future, only the trends/directions science is trying to follow, and there is no reason to believe, given the amazing advances in technology, some proof of life elsewhere may happen in our life time, or it may never happen. No one can say, but a typical human-centric position is to assume because we can't show it (due to the limitations of our current technology) it has any effects on the creatures looking back at us! ;D
good point..and true......but you are basically agreeing with me here....I've said it's impossible to know the future and what our future technological advances will be...we sometimes as humans tend to be really optimistic and we overreach what we think our capabilities will be....remember we were supposed to have flying cars by now??...cars that would drive themselves??..we were supposed to have colonized the moon by now remember??? we learned all this growing up..we were supposed to be living in a utopia by the year 2000..all of that never happened and is no where near happening...advances in technology can be much much slower than we think..you are talking as if all these wonderful spce travel breakthroughs are right around the corner.....they aren't..sorry
Nothing to be sorry about. You don't "believe" there is based on anything in particular, and I "believe" the probability says there is based on the shear numbers being worked with.
there's your "probability" theory again..is this all you have??..still no solid evidence
Already stated, speed of light will never be part of the solution in terms of any real star to star travel, unless you were to either (1) find a way to put people in stasis or (2) built huge arc ships that could sustain a population for very long periods of time. Both are within our technological abilities.
again we agree here!..speed of light will never be part of the solutuion..we said the same thing...puting people in stasis is not possible and is difficult to achieve since we haven't found a way to reanimate someone we have frozen....and the trip in stasis would last maybe hundreds if not thousands of years.....who is going to maintain the equipment for that long???..robots?..yeah right!!!..and building these huge arc ships that you talk about would cost an arm and leg and we don't have the technology to do this and won't for a very long time....
There are various avenues always under investigation, that is indeed theoretical at this time, and will remain so for a long time, unless some breakthrough were to happen, which is also possible. Science tends to have big breakthroughs in fits and starts, it's never been a linear thing.
these big breakthroughs you talk about cost a lot of money in terms of research and implementation.....we are talking trillions upon trillions....and we don't even know where to go.....in which direction do we point ourselves???..we will embark on a vast unknown trip to nowhere and get WHAT out of it?
How could it? ::)
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No I don't.....too complicated...too expensive... and nothing can come out of it so therefore the population won't except us pouring trillions of dollars into a sinkhole not knowing what we will get from it and not while so many problems exist on earth that need to be addressed......
What about a society that doesn't use or need a monetary system? And only has one purpose to live which is to explore space and set up shop on as many planets as possible until our brains evolve into something much bigger then we can ever imagine in the future...
Because if we can't reach a point in life where the above becomes reality, just how much bigger can a man's house become? and how much nicer can his car be?
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Because you failed to correctly quote me correctly and your response was one giant box above, I had to do it as follows:
"in this regard again my theory is as good as yours."
No it's not. One relies on the actual data/facts as they exist to support the theory (really a hypothesis BTW), one relies on "I believe" based on nothing. If you can't see the difference, then you really have no business being in such a conversation. "I don't believe" is not a theory, when it's not supported by anything.
"to reiterate, you didn';t exactly come up with a theory yourself..just used mathematical probability."
Actually I do, and many a hypothesis is based on mathematical probability. It's the strength of that probability model that gives it power or not. What do you think Einstein's theories were/are based on until some were physically supported, while others are still only in the mathematical model.
"...which again I could use as well..."
Go right ahead. Use mathematical probability to show that life on other planets is unlikely when there are over 100 billion stars in our galaxy, 300 billion (known) galaxies, hundreds of plants already discovered, etc, etc. Even if you plug the most pessimistic numbers into the Drake equation, you comes up with an astounding number of civilizations.
" still present no scientific evidence"
See above. Are you actually paying attention here? The issue is, the strength of that evidence, but only you have supplied none.
"advances in technology can be much much slower than we think..you are talking as if all these wonderful spce travel breakthroughs are right around the corner....."
I don't recall making any comments about anything being around the corner, though as stated, breakthroughs come in fits and starts vs linear.
"there's your "probability" theory again..is this all you have??..still no solid evidence"
Vs. yours which to date, totals "I don't believe" supported by exactly nothing. Who has the stronger hypothesis here? I do. Depending on the strength of the probability, it can be close to 100%. The probability of you being injured from jumping off a 30 story building is damn close to 100%, etc. Probability states nothing can be 100%, as there is a 0.0000000000000000000000 1% chance you might land on a hot air balloon that just happened to be passing by at that very moment, and so on.
"...puting people in stasis is not possible and is difficult to achieve since we haven't found a way to reanimate someone we have frozen."
All true, but not at all outside our future technological/,medical technology. I know the people doing that work for example, and they have brought higher animals (dogs, etc) back to life after several days at this point.
"...and the trip in stasis would last maybe hundreds if not thousands of years.....who is going to maintain the equipment for that long???..robots?..yeah right!!!..and building these huge arc ships that you talk about would cost an arm and leg and we don't have the technology to do this and won't for a very long time...."
Not actually relavent to the conversation. Costs, the will of people, etc, is another issue.
"these big breakthroughs you talk about cost a lot of money in terms of research and implementation.....we are talking trillions upon trillions....and we don't even know where to go.....in which direction do we point ourselves???..we will embark on a vast unknown trip to nowhere and get WHAT out of it?"
What do you think? It is the human condition that we need to explore and learn, and know what's out there. Why people jumped into ships, thinking the world was flat, having no idea where they would land, but off they went...
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Its not a "rule" - it's a mathematical proposition, which so far it has been impossible to refute...mathematically, at least
ok let's not argue semantics here, you know what i mean ;)
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ok let's not argue semantics here, you know what i mean ;)
Its actually interesting that you mentioned it.
Mathematically, there is a proof that on can't travel at the speed of light. But even though it is mathematically impossible, still doesn't make it impossible in absolute sense.
Light is matter and light can travel at the speed of light. So, why can't other matter do the same?
;)
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This video right here will tell you everything you need to know about what is out there or anywhere for that matter...
Perception: The Reality Beyond Matter
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there is a good possibility that the universe is a lot older than the estimated 14 billion light years, so considering that info, it seems silly to think that there is no other life form in the universe (intelligent or otherwise).
this is my favorite video on youtube. i watch this about twice a month or so, just to remind myself how small we really are.
What I want to know is what is the name of that song that that kid is gettin down to? That's a damn good song!
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>our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy.
How does one write out that number?
500 five hundred
500,000 five hundred thousand
500,000,000 five hundred million
500,000,000,000 five hundred billion
500,000,000,000,000 five hundred trillion
500,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quadrillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quintillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred sextillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred septillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred octillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,five hundred nonillion
Do I have that right? That’s as high as I can go; math was never my subject. :(
How does one write out five hundred thousand million? My guess would be 500,000,000,000,000. Is that right? Does five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion? ???
Suddenly, I feel so small. :'(
(then I look at my peter and I feel big again) ;D
I thought he meant half billion when he said that :)
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I thought he meant half billion when he said that :)
Huh? Why? ???
The otherwise lucid narrator certainly chose an awkward phrase when he delivered that number, but "five hundred thousand million" does not equal half a billion.
five hundred million = half a billion
five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion
right?
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Huh? Why? ???
The otherwise lucid narrator certainly chose an awkward phrase when he delivered that number, but "five hundred thousand million" does not equal half a billion.
five hundred million = half a billion
five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion
right?
Yea i guess i heard five hundred million that sounds allot to
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Perhaps he misspoke and meant to say "five hundred million"? Either way we're talking about a lot of stars (and potential planets)! And that is just in our galaxy!! There are millions of other galaxies!!!
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Perhaps he misspoke and meant to say "five hundred million"? Either way we're talking about a lot of stars (and potential planets)! And that is just in our galaxy!! There are millions of other galaxies!!!
Speaking of 5 hundred million :-\
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do you guys think we will ever get our shit together enough to colonize mars?
Yes. But not in our lifetimes. Have you seen any good Mars movies lately?
Red Planet (2000) was pretty lame but
Mission to Mars (2000)--at least the last half hour--was cool. :)
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so mason's worship satan huh. :-\
Prove me wrong :-\
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String theory...good vid
http://www.guba.com/watch/3000110061
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Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.
We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)
Photons (massless particles) are supposed to be able to travel between universes (brane theory)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_(M-Theory)
watch the vid i posted.... elegant universe
as far as faster than light travel...instantaneous change in the behaviour in one particle when itas twin particle is changed has already been observed...(the carrier particle..which transmits such a change has not)
in anycase...interesting vid below
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2532550347256411920&ei=AoFzSt3cN8jglQeWuoRv&q=phileldephia+experiment
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n o yeah..i forgot..the Drake equation
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html
o..btw..i did read somewhere that folks at CERN already sent the wave front of a particle as billionth of a second into the past....look up electron tunneling...i could be wrong here
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Yes. But not in our lifetimes. Have you seen any good Mars movies lately?
Red Planet (2000) was pretty lame but
Mission to Mars (2000)--at least the last half hour--was cool. :)
Read the "Red Mars", "Blue Mars" and "Green Mars" trilogy if you are interested in info about terraforming Mars - great reading all the way.
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i can agree with that also you should state whether you mean life, or intelligent life...there was some guy who stated it like this
to calculate the odds of us ever seeing another intelligent species is slim the odds of there being life other than on earth, with the odds that that life is intelligent, with the odds of us being able to find them, with the odds that our technology can reach them either physically or otherwise, with the odds of them having the technology to find and intupret or signals, with the odds that they would actually respond is astronomical...but at the same time there is the human race on earth so we know that it is possible.
agreed
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If you have ever taken an astronomy class in college then you know there is life on other planets. There are simply too many galaxies with stars and attendant solar systems for earth to be the only planet with life. So, yes, there is certainly life out there—lots of it. Undoubtedly, some of it is far more advanced than life on earth while others are not as advanced.
I am certain there are star faring races that routinely move between planets and solar systems. There may even be communities among planets like the Federation in Star Trek or the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.
Are aliens aware of us? Maybe. Have they come to earth? I have no reason to think so. We are too primitive to warrant serious attention from advanced civilizations.
In both technology and social development we are not yet worthy of contact with alien visitors. Aliens that have the technology to come here also have the technology to observe us without detection. They could easily study us from a distance, learn our languages and customs, monitor our radio/tv broadcasts and our global internet. Having done so, they would quickly learn we are deeply divided over superficial things like international borders, gender, race, sexuality, religion, and on and on. Having observed that we can not even get along with one another why would aliens (who would certainly not look like us) decide that we could handle contact with beings that would certainly look like freaks (to us).
I am certain there are plenty of advanced civilizations out there but I do not think earth is on their radar screen for now. We are not technologically and socially ready to handle contact with aliens.
Even in Star Trek (TNG) they limit First Contact to new planets that have developed warp drive (light speed) technology. One episode in particular deals with this subject http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68484.html
you see, I don;'t think aliens would give two hoots as to whether we can get along with each other...it's not that deep to them....that's just intellectual stuff that Star Trek made up.... they would be just as excited as we are and would rush to make contact with us...no matter what the consequences
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do you guys think we will ever get our shit together enough to colonize mars?
kinda tough to do with our budgetary constraints.....the whole world would have to work together and that ain't happening..theres too much distrust between us, the russians and the chinese..maybe in another 50 to 100 years
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If there was proof of intelligent life or if intelligent life visited our planet.what do you think would be the outcome regarding how we view basically everything.from foreign affairs and how people treat each other (racism,foreigners) to religion.I mean that would be a serious wake up call for those people that think in absolutes.
I think we would stop for a moment and reflect on this great discovery....there might be some bonding of the human race as humans..but then we'd go back to killing each other and hating each other..it's part of what makes us human..we can't help it
case in point..look at America after 9/11..we bonded as Americans..wasn't much racial nonsense or political fighting..but when it wore off, we went back to normal
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It may not be as revolutionary as you might think. There have been other wake up calls throughout human history and they haven’t necessarily changed hearts and minds overnight for the better. Hard core religious people, for example, would simply integrate the reality of alien life into their various belief systems.
It is tempting to think that mankind would set aside our differences and realize our common interests, once we realized that we are not alone in the galaxy, but I doubt that would be the case; bigots and conservatives (funny how often these two go together), for example, would continue to cling to their prejudices.
Science fiction novels and films often portray mankind banding together when earth is attacked by aliens. In theory, this makes sense since “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Unfortunately, if any aliens came here with hostile intentions, we would be sitting ducks at our current level of technology. We can barely get to the moon and we are still using handguns as weapons. We have not even learned how to truly harness solar power. ☹
The Dyson Sphere is a neat idea, but it will always be in the realm of fiction. By contrast, I can see quantum leaps in solar panel and battery technology over the next one to two hundred years that would allow us to power our homes and cars with solar power.
Good post Bay...agreed X2
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Two entities that are in collusion together...
that's an interesting theory
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NASA says Kepler spacecraft proves it can find Earth-sized planets
Readings on the planet HAT-P-7b indicate that the craft's instruments should be able to spot relatively small planets in the habitable zones around stars in our galaxy, scientists say.
By John Johnson Jr.
NASA's planet-hunting spacecraft, Kepler, has made radical new discoveries about a hellish planet a thousand light years away -- proof, scientists say, that the craft will be able to carry out its mission of finding other Earths in our galaxy, provided they exist.
NASA scientists released Kepler's analysis Thursday of an already known "hot Jupiter" planet called HAT-P-7b in the constellation Cygnus. The spacecraft mapped the planet's orbit and gave new details about its hazy, ozone-like atmosphere, where temperatures climb as high as 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
The analysis proves that Kepler's onboard telescope and light-detecting instruments are at least 100 times more precise than the ground-based detectors that originally found HAT-P-7b, the scientists said at a briefing at NASA headquarters in Washington. That should be good enough to spot any pint-sized planets -- about the size of Earth -- in a star's so-called habitable zone, where temperatures are warm enough for water to be liquid but not so hot as to torch the planet's surface.
"Kepler has the ability to detect Earth-sized planets," Alan Boss, an astrophysicist with the Carnegie Institution of Washington, said at the briefing. "The question that remains is: How many Earths are there?"
Kepler, which was launched in March, is the first spacecraft with a mission to find potentially habitable worlds. Over the next few years, as it circles the sun in an Earth-trailing orbit, it will scan 100,000 stars in the constellations of Cygnus and Lyra, looking for planets.
Of the previously discovered 350 or so extrasolar planets -- those that lie outside our solar system -- none is a candidate for the "Goldilocks" planet, where things are just right for life to gain a foothold. Teams in Europe and the United States have found several super-Earths, planets that are slightly larger than our home planet. But all are either too close to their star and thus baking hells like Venus, or too far away and therefore ice-cube worlds like Pluto.
Since the launch of Kepler, controllers have spent most of their time tuning its sophisticated instruments, which are designed to detect the tiniest variations in light from a star thousands of light-years away that might indicate a planet orbiting it. Only in the last few weeks has the science team begun putting Kepler through its paces, gathering data...
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-kepler7-2009aug07,0,4497874.story
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you see, I don;'t think aliens would give two hoots as to whether we can get along with each other...it's not that deep to them....that's just intellectual stuff that Star Trek made up.... they would be just as excited as we are and would rush to make contact with us...no matter what the consequences
If they are benevolent and the least bit self-interested they would care. There is a lot of life in the universe. It makes no rational sense for aliens to waste their time with planets that are not technologically and socially advanced enough to warrant contact. It would be the equivalent of you or I spending time and money traveling to the other side of the planet to make contact with a colony of ants or a group of chimpanzees. Sure, we know they exist, but they are not a life form that is evolved (socially or technologically) enough to justify reaching out to them when there are other, more meaningful, beings we could be communicating with.
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If they are benevolent and the least bit self-interested they would care. There is a lot of life in the universe. It makes no rational sense for aliens to waste their time with planets that are not technologically and socially advanced enough to warrant contact. It would be the equivalent of you or I spending time and money traveling to the other side of the planet to make contact with a colony of ants or a group of chimpanzees. Sure, we know they exist, but they are not a life form that is evolved (socially or technologically) enough to justify reaching out to them when there are other, more meaningful, beings we could be communicating with.
good try but no cigar Bay....we humans if we heard there were alien ants on another planet we would rush there even more quickly.....just the thought of something other than us being ALIVE out there is just too exciting to ignore....
plus scientists would want to get samples and study them...in the hopes of maybe those ants might have something in their blood which can cure all diseases on earth..LOL
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If you have ever taken an astronomy class in college then you know there is life on other planets. There are simply too many galaxies with stars and attendant solar systems for earth to be the only planet with life. So, yes, there is certainly life out there—lots of it. Undoubtedly, some of it is far more advanced than life on earth while others are not as advanced.
I am certain there are star faring races that routinely move between planets and solar systems. There may even be communities among planets like the Federation in Star Trek or the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.
Are aliens aware of us? Maybe. Have they come to earth? I have no reason to think so. We are too primitive to warrant serious attention from advanced civilizations.
In both technology and social development we are not yet worthy of contact with alien visitors. Aliens that have the technology to come here also have the technology to observe us without detection. They could easily study us from a distance, learn our languages and customs, monitor our radio/tv broadcasts and our global internet. Having done so, they would quickly learn we are deeply divided over superficial things like international borders, gender, race, sexuality, religion, and on and on. Having observed that we can not even get along with one another why would aliens (who would certainly not look like us) decide that we could handle contact with beings that would certainly look like freaks (to us).
I am certain there are plenty of advanced civilizations out there but I do not think earth is on their radar screen for now. We are not technologically and socially ready to handle contact with aliens.
Even in Star Trek (TNG) they limit First Contact to new planets that have developed warp drive (light speed) technology. One episode in particular deals with this subject http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68484.html
Good points. So true...
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First habitable planet outside solar system is found
By Marc Kaufman
For the first time, astronomers have detected a rocky planet in another solar system that has the most basic and essential conditions needed to support extraterrestrial life.
The presence of Earth-like exoplanets in what is called the "habitable zone" has been predicted for some time, but actually identifying and measuring one was referred to Wednesday as the beginning of a new era in the search for life beyond Earth.
"This is our first Goldilocks planet - just the right size and the right distance from its sun," said astronomer and "planet-hunter" Paul Butler with the Carnegie Institution of Washington. "A threshold has been crossed."
The planet, called Gliese 581G, is quite close at 20 light years from Earth's solar system. It is considered to be in the habitable zone because of its distance from its sun and its size.
Together, those two measurements tell scientists that any water on the planet will be in liquid form, and that the planet is large enough to have the gravitational pull to hold an atmosphere around it.
Butler and colleague Steven Vogt of the University of California at Santa Cruz said their discovery, which was published in the Astrophysical Journal, was pieced together by collecting data over 11 years, does not mean that life necessarily exists on the planet. Rather, they said, the basic conditions are present to allow it to begin and keep it going. And from their research, they strongly believe similar conditions are present in many other solar systems.
"This is clearly one of the most exciting areas of science these days," said Edward Seidel of the National Science Foundation, which has helped support Butler's work for almost 25 years. "If we do discover life outside our planet, it would perhaps be the most significant discovery of all time."
Adding to the significance of the discovery, the star Gliese 581 is now known to have six and perhaps seven planets orbiting it. And unlike most distant solar systems detected so far, the planets all orbit in a circular path and are lined up by type in a way similar to our solar system.
"As we collect more data, we can see the system looks like our own - with an inner clutch of rocky, terrestrial planets and then a big loner like Jupiter further out," Vogt said.
It is significantly different, however, because the central sun is an M dwarf, a star with only 1 percent of the power that comes off Earth's sun. All the planets in the system are closer to their sun than the Earth is to its sun.
Butler and Vogt said the likelihood of finding many more planets in habitable zones has greatly increased because of where this first one was found and how long it took to find it. Gliese 581 is one of the stars closest to Earth (86th in distance from our solar system), and so is one of the easiest to study for exoplanets. In addition, it took 11 years of observing to tease out the presence of the habitable zone planet, a short time in astronomical terms.
"The logic now says there are lots of planets like this out there," Vogt said.
The research was funded by the National Science Foundation, NASA and some private sources.
The first exoplanet was detected in 1995 by a Swiss team and then quickly confirmed by Butler and his then-colleague Geoffrey Marcy. Since then, almost 500 exoplanets have been found, but many have been large gas giants like uninhabitable Jupiter.
But as techniques for finding exoplanets have become more precise, the ability of astronomers to find smaller ones has improved.
The scientific excitement about exoplanets was reflected in August, when the National Academy of Sciences' 10-year survey of astronomy placed exoplanet study near the top of the field's priorities.
In addition to discovering more and hopefully smaller planets, the study said, astronomers should be thinking about ways to learn about the chemical makeup of distant planets and their atmospheres. In particular, they should look for oxygen, ozone, methane and other "biosignatures" that suggest the presence of some form of biology.
The work by Butler and Vogt was mostly done at the W.M. Keck Observatory on the dormant Mauna Kea volcano in Hawaii and involves indirect measurements of the "wobble" of a target star that is created by the gravitational pull of an orbiting planet. It took 240 lengthy observations of Gliese 581 by the Americans and a Swiss team before Butler and Vogt were able to tease out the measurements of a habitable zone planet.
The newly discovered planet is locked in relation to its sun the way the moon is locked in relation to Earth - with only one side bathed in sunlight. But the researchers said the extremes of dark cold and bright heat are reduced along a band that circles the planet where the dark and light meet, creating a wide range of promising environmental niches.
Those areas are large enough, Butler said, for heat-loving creatures to live on the sun-facing region of the band and polar bears on the cold-facing side. He also said that because the planet does not rotate on an axis, the view from these areas would be of perpetual sunrise or sunset.
Red dwarf stars like Gliese 581 are considered among the longest living in the universe, so they can potentially provide a stable stellar environment for eons - an important factor in setting the conditions for life. The Earth's sun is also relatively long-lived but will cool to the point that Earthly life is impossible long before Gliese 581 loses its force.
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If you have ever taken an astronomy class in college then you know there is life on other planets. There are simply too many galaxies with stars and attendant solar systems for earth to be the only planet with life. So, yes, there is certainly life out there—lots of it. Undoubtedly, some of it is far more advanced than life on earth while others are not as advanced.
I am certain there are star faring races that routinely move between planets and solar systems. There may even be communities among planets like the Federation in Star Trek or the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.
Are aliens aware of us? Maybe. Have they come to earth? I have no reason to think so. We are too primitive to warrant serious attention from advanced civilizations.
In both technology and social development we are not yet worthy of contact with alien visitors. Aliens that have the technology to come here also have the technology to observe us without detection. They could easily study us from a distance, learn our languages and customs, monitor our radio/tv broadcasts and our global internet. Having done so, they would quickly learn we are deeply divided over superficial things like international borders, gender, race, sexuality, religion, and on and on. Having observed that we can not even get along with one another why would aliens (who would certainly not look like us) decide that we could handle contact with beings that would certainly look like freaks (to us).
I am certain there are plenty of advanced civilizations out there but I do not think earth is on their radar screen for now. We are not technologically and socially ready to handle contact with aliens.
Even in Star Trek (TNG) they limit First Contact to new planets that have developed warp drive (light speed) technology. One episode in particular deals with this subject http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68484.html
Bay, I have to disagree with you here. There are certainly at least some few thousand planets out of the estimated quintillion in the visible Universe that have the conditions for life to arrise in them(rocky planet, right distance from the star, abundant water, etc). However, just because there are at least thousands of planets with the conditions for life, it does not follow that life will have arrised in any of them. Life could be ubiquitous to Earth. Life could be formed under such extremely rare and specific conditions that only happens once every septillion times that life could be a one time phenomenon. There might possibly be a "trigger" involved in the first self-replicating organic molecules forming that is ultra rare.
Then, there are other mitigating variables that would preclude the formation of life in an intelligent form. We have no idea what is it in the process of natural selection that resulted in Humans having high intelligence. Maybe life arises in all or most of the planets that have the conditions for it, but it never reaches the stage of intelligence. Maybe sometimes the process that results in intelligence life forms is there, but natural disasters such as meteor showers and vulcanic eruptions wipes life out before it reaches that stage. So intelligent life is quite improbable even if life turns out to be mundane in the Universe.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Bay, I have to disagree with you here. There are certainly at least some few thousand planets out of the estimated quintillion in the visible Universe that have the conditions for life to arrise in them(rocky planet, right distance from the star, abundant water, etc). However, just because there are at least thousands of planets with the conditions for life, it does not follow that life will have arrised in any of them. Life could be ubiquitous to Earth. Life could be formed under such extremely rare and specific conditions that only happens once every septillion times that life could be a one time phenomenon. There might possibly be a "trigger" involved in the first self-replicating organic molecules forming that is ultra rare.
Then, there are other mitigating variables that would preclude the formation of life in an intelligent form. We have no idea what is it in the process of natural selection that resulted in Humans having high intelligence. Maybe life arises in all or most of the planets that have the conditions for it, but it never reaches the stage of intelligence. Maybe sometimes the process that results in intelligence life forms is there, but natural disasters such as meteor showers and vulcanic eruptions wipes life out before it reaches that stage. So intelligent life is quite improbable even if life turns out to be mundane in the Universe.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I agree with this.....I truly do not buy that there are other intelligent beings like us out there....I DO believe there is life out there somewhere..plants...orga nisms..bugs...fish maybe?......but people like us who are walking around and building planes, trains and automobiles?....I really do not believe this to be the case..I believe we are freaks of nature....we got lucky....our minds are just so unique and so different..we are able to conceptualize things and think about the future unlike other animals......I just don't see it......I don't buy into there being UFO's and stuff....
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I agree with this.....I truly do not buy that there are other intelligent beings like us out there....I DO believe there is life out there somewhere..plants...orga nisms..bugs...fish maybe?......but people like us who are walking around and building planes, trains and automobiles?....I really do not believe this to be the case..I believe we are freaks of nature....we got lucky....our minds are just so unique and so different..we are able to conceptualize things and think about the future unlike other animals......I just don't see it......I don't buy into there being UFO's and stuff....
and yet you could be wrong...And from a mathematical/probability standpoint you more than likely are wrong...