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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: boonstack on January 30, 2009, 10:20:23 AM
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Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.
here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.
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Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.
here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.
Actually it's very difficult for carbohydrates to be converted to fat. 200 grams of protein is better then 100 because your body is using proteins for energy even in the presence of carbohydrates. There are always a trace amount of ketones floating through your blood.
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If i can attest to anything, it is that i know for a fact that high protein is good for maintain/ growing muscle. Just ask Adonis. He went on about 100 grams for a while and dropped down to 145.
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Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.
here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.
your retarded and weve went over this before you stupid fuckwit
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the whole world's population would be as huge as ronnie coleman if all these bullshits protein advices were true...
Any lifetime natural with years of experience under his belt knows it's all about training consistancy and not even about your protein intakes.
You can build muscle from not eating proteins at all, eating some more might help but not half as much as people who sell em want you to believe.
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Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.
here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.
And you should stop bashing things you have no clue about. I think I've seen your pics and no offense, but you don't even look like you train. Taking 1.5 - 2 gm protein / lb of body weight makes a HUGE difference in the way you feel, your strength, your recovery and progress. Not everyone will respond to the same thing to the same degree. So maybe you aren't getting anything out of them, but I know tons of people who have experienced great results from ingesting more than 100 gm protein / day. There's no point in going through 30,000 studies to back up what you are saying when it's simply disproven for a lot of people from the results / gains they've attained with their own bodies.
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You can build muscle from not eating proteins at all,
;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D
Agreed. That's incredibly retarded.
how much does kiwiol consume?
I don't keep track of it to the nth degree, but I'd say around 300 gm / day. I weigh around 215 lb
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Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.
here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.
1. Excess protein does not turn into fat. It is excreted from the body.
2. Excess complex carbs WILL make you fat.
3. Ronnie is not with MD
4. Ronnie was with Weider and the articles are ghost written.
Wiggs...Gh15 approved Golden Member
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I have a question
"1-2 grams protein per lb of bodyweight"
Am i right in thinking this statement refers to LEAN BODY MASS
rather than total bodyweight?
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I have a question
"1-2 grams protein per lb of bodyweight"
Am i right in thinking this statement refers to LEAN BODY MASS
rather than total bodyweight?
Absolutely. It's lean body mass, not your actual body weight.
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1. Excess protein does not turn into fat. It is excreted from the body. wrong
2. Excess complex carbs WILL make you fat. yes but very difficult
3. Ronnie is not with MD
4. Ronnie was with Weider and the articles are ghost written.
Wiggs...Gh15 approved Golden Member
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Will simple sugars make u gain fat easier than complex carbs?
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Will simple sugars make u gain fat easier than complex carbs?
Not sure... i just remember being taught in nutrition class that carbohydrates are difficult to store as fat.
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Doesn't broomstick weigh about 125lbs?
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Doesn't broomstick weigh about 125lbs?
Haha maybe if he's soaking wet. It's always the guys here who look like they've never picked up a weight that give out the most advice. But then again, he's got 30,000 studies to back up what he's saying ::)
I like how they throw a random number like that that no one could possibly verify (not that it matters). If he'd spent a 10th of that time lifting weights, he'd find that his body does have an increased need for protein thanks to the workouts, so it can recover properly and get stronger in the process.
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1. Excess protein does not turn into fat. It is excreted from the body.
2. Excess complex carbs WILL make you fat.
3. Ronnie is not with MD
4. Ronnie was with Weider and the articles are ghost written.
Wiggs...Gh15 approved Golden Member
Based off your pics, you don't know very much about nutrition Wiggs. You are big in the wrong kind of way.
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he said there are over 30,000 diets out there, which there are -- I do agree that he is a skinny anorexic looking pep squeek who hangs out at clubs
and probably spends friday afternoons pumping his 11 inch arms to get read for the show in the evening ::)
LOL! Point noted on the fact that it's 30,000 diets and not studies, but that doesn't change what I've said. There are other guys here who use the 'there are studies' line to back up what they are saying when they look no different than the average person in the street who has no knowledge or experience with lifting. My point is that philosophy is proven only by it's results, so if you are going to claim something or give out advice on how to improve one's physique, you better look the part, which will speak volumes, as opposed to using lame techniques like quoting studies, a lot of which are pure BS anyway.
I've done my share of lab work and I'm not the only one that knows for a fact that there are studies out there on the same topic that contradict each other in regards to what they claim and prove / disprove. So it's better to simply try things out with your own body to see what works and what doesn't work for you. That being said, there are more cases out there that show that ingesting more protein when exercising has beneficial results than there are cases that prove otherwise.
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how do you explain that complete newbies who have no idea what a diet is and who eat maybe 30 to 50 grams of proteins a day build muscles just doing some biceps curls and bench press then ::)
even if they dont "eat the recommended official 2 grams of proteins per kilo per day" bullshit? ::)
Maybe because you dont need that much proteins and cause it's all and mainly about how and how often you train as a natural that defines the way you will shape and build your muscles...
Even without a daily consuption of 1 or 2 grams of proteins a day you would build muscle if you lift weights. Whatever what you eat.
"Ingesting more proteins daily might help", but at some point you reach a limit. For most, 1.2 or 1.6 grams of protein per kilo per day isnt even required.
"Ingesting more proteins daily might help" is the only conclusion of the real scientifical studies that have been done until now.
Fucking retards.
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Fucking retards.
Pure gold!
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how do you explain that complete newbies who have no idea what a diet is and who eat maybe 30 to 50 grams of proteins a day build muscles just doing some biceps curls and bench press then ::)
that is physiologically impossible to gain muscle eatign that...
boonstack !!!
let me explain
science says, rda says, a certain protein intake. about .65 g per kilo? i believe. and , in people who weight train, its actually lower. only about .5 g per kilo. and this is based onscience.
totally true.
but what are they saying ? they are saying that is the amount fo protein necessary per day in order to keep a nuetral nitrogen balance.
nitrogen balance is a key indicator of msucle gorwth or msucle loss. the scientists recommend that amount of protein per day in order to avoid muscle loss in sedentray individuals, beause that process is very unhealthy and might even lead to death- over time. its malnutitrition.
no, how does one gain extra muscle? they need to have a positive nitrogen blance.
there is you first step in understanding high protein intake for gaining mass.
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that is physiologically impossible to gain muscle eatign that...
boonstack !!!
let me explain
science says, rda says, a certain protein intake. about .65 g per kilo? i believe. and , in people who weight train, its actually lower. only about .5 g per kilo. and this is based onscience.
totally true.
but what are they saying ? they are saying that is the amount fo protein necessary per day in order to keep a nuetral nitrogen balance.
nitrogen balance is a key indicator of msucle gorwth or msucle loss. the scientists recommend that amount of protein per day in order to avoid muscle loss in sedentray individuals, beause that process is very unhealthy and might even lead to death- over time. its malnutitrition.
no, how does one gain extra muscle? they need to have a positive nitrogen blance.
there is you first step in understanding high protein intake for gaining mass.
What do you care, you're all drugs by now anyway...
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Maybe coonsack, er broomstick, is one of those that don't want to "get too big?" hahaha
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And you should stop bashing things you have no clue about. I think I've seen your pics and no offense, but you don't even look like you train. Taking 1.5 - 2 gm protein / lb of body weight makes a HUGE difference in the way you feel, your strength, your recovery and progress. Not everyone will respond to the same thing to the same degree. So maybe you aren't getting anything out of them, but I know tons of people who have experienced great results from ingesting more than 100 gm protein / day. There's no point in going through 30,000 studies to back up what you are saying when it's simply disproven for a lot of people from the results / gains they've attained with their own bodies.
see, this is the shit i dont get. What does "i know tons of people that did this" mean? What your "buddies" attest to has not jack shit to do with science or fact.
You are a prime example of what im talking about... the whole "well my friends say this" type of logic has no relevance here.
But before i even bother, why dont you tell me what you know about biochemistry and nutrition? 4 day nutrition workshop dont count.
Im guessing you also think a person should drink at least a galllon of water a day too also right? ::)
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Should guys who weigh less than 150lbs even be allowed to post on getbig?
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Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.
here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.
maybe YOU just don't get it.
case in point- look in the mirror.
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Haha maybe if he's soaking wet. It's always the guys here who look like they've never picked up a weight that give out the most advice. But then again, he's got 30,000 studies to back up what he's saying ::)
I like how they throw a random number like that that no one could possibly verify (not that it matters). If he'd spent a 10th of that time lifting weights, he'd find that his body does have an increased need for protein thanks to the workouts, so it can recover properly and get stronger in the process.
your clearly not capable of rational thought.
its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.
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that is physiologically impossible to gain muscle eatign that...boonstack !!!let me explainscience says, rda says, a certain protein intake. about .65 g per kilo? i believe. and , in people who weight train, its actually lower. only about .5 g per kilo. and this is based onscience. totally true. but what are they saying ? they are saying that is the amount fo protein necessary per day in order to keep a nuetral nitrogen balance.nitrogen balance is a key indicator of msucle gorwth or msucle loss. the scientists recommend that amount of protein per day in order to avoid muscle loss in sedentray individuals, beause that process is very unhealthy and might even lead to death- over time. its malnutitrition. no, how does one gain extra muscle? they need to have a positive nitrogen blance. there is you first step in understanding high protein intake for gaining mass.
the "scientists" huh? Tell me, what "scientists" are you talking about? let me guess, they had clinical trials performed right? ::)
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your clearly not capable of rational thought.
its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.
"you're"
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::)
excess protein is either urinated or turned into fat
excess calories make you fat
get your shit right
Oh, thanks for clarifying that. i was under the assumption fat, protein, and carbs were the only things that contained calories.. man this is too easy.... "upjacked" oh brother ::)
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the "scientists" huh? Tell me, what "scientists" are you talking about? let me guess, they had clinical trials performed right? ::)
i was referncing the scientists who foun out the number of grams per kilo that an average person must eat in order to keep a nuetral nitrogen balance. that number is about .65 grams per kilo. and in people lift weights, its only about .5 grams per kilo.
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how do you explain that complete newbies who have no idea what a diet is and who eat maybe 30 to 50 grams of proteins a day build muscles just doing some biceps curls and bench press then ::)
even if they dont "eat the recommended official 2 grams of proteins per kilo per day" bullshit? ::)
Maybe because you dont need that much proteins and cause it's all and mainly about how and how often you train as a natural that defines the way you will shape and build your muscles...
Even without a daily consuption of 1 or 2 grams of proteins a day you would build muscle if you lift weights. Whatever what you eat.
"Ingesting more proteins daily might help", but at some point you reach a limit. For most, 1.2 or 1.6 grams of protein per kilo per day isnt even required.
"Ingesting more proteins daily might help" is the only conclusion of the real scientifical studies that have been done until now.
Fucking retards.
you are the only one that gets it. its sad to see how so many of these people are brainwashed into thinking they can force their body to utilize more protein.
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your clearly not capable of rational thought.
its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.
"you're"
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see, this is the shit i dont get. What does "i know tons of people that did this" mean? What your "buddies" attest to has not jack shit to do with science or fact.
You are a prime example of what im talking about... the whole "well my friends say this" type of logic has no relevance here.
But before i even bother, why dont you tell me what you know about biochemistry and nutrition? 4 day nutrition workshop dont count.
Im guessing you also think a person should drink at least a galllon of water a day too also right? ::)
Not at all, dumbo. You are the one who has no clue about science or facts. Do you know anything from personal experience as to whether protein works or not? Of course you don't - that much is evident from your pic.
To clarify what I've said, I used to work as a personal trainer part-time while I was studying at Uni a few years ago. I've trained over 1000 people, which is good enough a sample size, statistically speaking. Nearly all of the guys I trained wanted to increase their muscularity and they did exactly that when I recommended they add 2 shakes (that would add about 80 gm protein to their overall daily intake) while also increasing their intake of meat and other animal products that are high in protein. I should add that I made them lift heavier and more intensely than they had been doing up until that point.
Plus I know people who own supplement stores and they do have a lot of members coming back for protein cause they all see results. Sure, not all supplements work and it's BS for someone to claim that taking protein or any other supplement alone will make you look like Mr Olympia or something close. Even discounting the placebo effect, there is no denying that increased protein consumption does lead to increased recovery, strength, performance and results.
And I studied Environmental Engineering and Molecular Biology at University. Did tons of Biochemistry during the latter course and during the 90s, I was obsessed with bodybuilding enough to read as much as I could on things like nutrition and what have you. So I'm not completely clueless like you probably imagine. But even that takes a backseat to the fact that I'm basing my claim that protein does help you get bigger and stronger based on my personal experience and have results to back it up. Can you say the same?
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your clearly not capable of rational thought.
its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.
So you are saying that you need very little protein and very little water to stimulate muscle Growth.....just unbelievable ::)
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Not at all, dumbo. You are the one who has no clue about science or facts. Do you know anything from personal experience as to whether protein works or not? Of course you don't - that much is evident from your pic.
To clarify what I've said, I used to work as a personal trainer part-time while I was studying at Uni a few years ago. I've trained over 1000 people, which is good enough a sample size, statistically speaking. Nearly all of the guys I trained wanted to increase their muscularity and they did exactly that when I recommended they add 2 shakes (that would add about 80 gm protein to their overall daily intake) while also increasing their intake of meat and other animal products that are high in protein. I should add that I made them lift heavier and more intensely than they had been doing up until that point.
Plus I know people who own supplement stores and they do have a lot of members coming back for protein cause they all see results. Sure, not all supplements work and it's BS for someone to claim that taking protein or any other supplement alone will make you look like Mr Olympia or something close. Even discounting the placebo effect, there is no denying that increased protein consumption does lead to increased recovery, strength, performance and results.
And I studied Environmental Engineering and Molecular Biology at University. Did tons of Biochemistry during the latter course and during the 90s, I was obsessed with bodybuilding enough to read as much as I could on things like nutrition and what have you. So I'm not completely clueless like you probably imagine. But even that takes a backseat to the fact that I'm basing my claim that protein does help you get bigger and stronger based on my personal experience and have results to back it up. Can you say the same?
Transfer of ownership has taken place. Kiwi, will wee little broomstick be required to put his finger thru your belt-loop when you go out in the yard?
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Kiwiol laying the smackdown. You go girl!
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your clearly not capable of rational thought.
its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.
Who cares about the number? So what if there are 30,000 diets? Anyone can make up and prescribe a diet, which is probably why there is so much nonsense floating around.
I'll tell you what - post a pic of your physique to show that you know what you are talking about. I've posted plenty of mine here.
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0.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass is ideal.
THE END.
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How much protein eh?
Well put it this way - I weigh 230lbs and consume on average 400 grams of protein a day.
I look better than when I was 210lbs consuming 300 grams a day.
And I looked better than that when I was 170lbs consuming 200 grams a day.
Go figure.
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I've made some of my best gains both in lean body mass and strength when I could be bothered to cook and eat massive amounts of meat every day.
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I've made some of my best gains both in lean body mass and strength when I could be bothered to cook and eat massive amounts of meat every day.
it was most probably just the massive amount of eating.
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Not at all, dumbo. You are the one who has no clue about science or facts. Do you know anything from personal experience as to whether protein works or not? Of course you don't - that much is evident from your pic.To clarify what I've said, I used to work as a personal trainer part-time while I was studying at Uni a few years ago. I've trained over 1000 people, which is good enough a sample size, statistically speaking. Nearly all of the guys I trained wanted to increase their muscularity and they did exactly that when I recommended they add 2 shakes (that would add about 80 gm protein to their overall daily intake) while also increasing their intake of meat and other animal products that are high in protein. I should add that I made them lift heavier and more intensely than they had been doing up until that point.Plus I know people who own supplement stores and they do have a lot of members coming back for protein cause they all see results. Sure, not all supplements work and it's BS for someone to claim that taking protein or any other supplement alone will make you look like Mr Olympia or something close. Even discounting the placebo effect, there is no denying that increased protein consumption does lead to increased recovery, strength, performance and results.And I studied Environmental Engineering and Molecular Biology at University. Did tons of Biochemistry during the latter course and during the 90s, I was obsessed with bodybuilding enough to read as much as I could on things like nutrition and what have you. So I'm not completely clueless like you probably imagine. But even that takes a backseat to the fact that I'm basing my claim that protein does help you get bigger and stronger based on my personal experience and have results to back it up. Can you say the same?
The whole point im making is in these claims you are saying. (specifically, the results you got from people whom you recommended to consume high levels of protein) Ok, i "get" what you are saying about being a personal trainer and having clients, that would definitely be as realistic as testing your theories can get, real human beings.... BUT, say me and you were to do a test each. Group A and Group B. Your group is 1000 people who consume say 1.5-2g's of protein per day. My group, B, consumes .7-1g per day. However, we have to take into account the other sources of nutrients (carbs & fats). So for arguments sake, ill say your group was low carb, high protein.
My group is low protein (relatively - im not claiming protein is not required - it is. And meat is the best choice, it contains all 9 amino acids... yada yada), but my group also has high carbs. (Both groups eating SAME food sources, clean no junk very strict diet, lean meats complex carbs, good fats only)The only difference is the quantity of nutrients. both groups have same workout regimen.
My claim would be that my group would have a much better workout because A- they have tons of energy from the carbs. Not lethargic, etc.
So, after a year long study, you REALLY think your group would have much more lbm just due to a few more pieces of chicken or shakes a day?
That just does not make any sense. I suggest you eat 5-7 meals a day, but, its OK not to eat 2 lbs of chicken breast or red meat a day.
BTW- this is all assuming one is natural. If you are on gear - then its totally different. eat more protein
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Who cares about the number? So what if there are 30,000 diets? Anyone can make up and prescribe a diet, which is probably why there is so much nonsense floating around.
I'll tell you what - post a pic of your physique to show that you know what you are talking about. I've posted plenty of mine here.
By the way Great posts!!!....It is SCHOKING how all this Experts ::) with genius ideas of low protein intake can not apply they own theory into themselves. It is like getting advice on how to eat from an anorexic ::)
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How much protein eh?
Well put it this way - I weigh 230lbs and consume on average 400 grams of protein a day.
I look better than when I was 210lbs consuming 300 grams a day.
And I looked better than that when I was 170lbs consuming 200 grams a day.
Go figure.
Mind you, there is an upper limit beyond which you won't have any positive effects or results like you most likely know. The supplement industry does make some ridiculous claims about the effectiveness of whatever product they are marketing, including protein powder. But that's marketing for you - no different than the informercials you see where they claim the ab-cruncher they've come up with would make you lose 25 lb in a month and other BS like that.
But to go from saying 'I think those ads are horseshit and not really representative of the truth or even typical results the average user will see' to 'all protein supplements are useless and there is no point in supplementing protein when you workout with a fair bit of weights, intensity and volume' is just plain stupid, especially if you look like you'd have trouble benching 135 for a single.
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it was most probably just the massive amount of eating.
Yeah could be, I'm not overly convinced in megadosing protein either. Just eat and train hard and results will come.
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How much protein eh?
Well put it this way - I weigh 230lbs and consume on average 400 grams of protein a day.
I look better than when I was 210lbs consuming 300 grams a day.
And I looked better than that when I was 170lbs consuming 200 grams a day.
Go figure.
let me know how that gout goes for you.
You are not taking into consideration all the multitude of factors that come into play.
Such as - When you were 210 lbs:
a- did u have same workout routine? Same intensity? Did you do any cardio? What were the other factors? What was your fat & carb intake like?
But, magically, like the placebo effect, you all of a sudden tell yourself that "Ill eat more protein - and more is better!" ::)
few weeks go by yadda yadda, you are much more "in tune" with yourself because of this astonishing discovery you have stumbled upon.
So, it must be the protein right!
Btw, are you on gear or natty?
Also, this 20 lbs increase is NOT lean body mass. Gaining about 2-5 lbs of PURE 100% lean muscle tissue a year is about the best a natty can hope for. And that is being very realistic. SO what are you trying to say? You gained 20 lbs, eating far more protein, and only 2 or 3 lbs of that is pure muscle?
Go figure
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One thing is for sure though guys.
Eat protein and you will fart. I've made some of my best farts while on a high protein diet.
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The whole point im making is in these claims you are saying. (specifically, the results you got from people whom you recommended to consume high levels of protein) Ok, i "get" what you are saying about being a personal trainer and having clients, that would definitely be as realistic as testing your theories can get, real human beings.... BUT, say me and you were to do a test each. Group A and Group B. Your group is 1000 people who consume say 1.5-2g's of protein per day. My group, B, consumes .7-1g per day. However, we have to take into account the other sources of nutrients (carbs & fats). So for arguments sake, ill say your group was low carb, high protein.
My group is low protein (relatively - im not claiming protein is not required - it is. And meat is the best choice, it contains all 9 amino acids... yada yada), but my group also has high carbs. (Both groups eating SAME food sources, clean no junk very strict diet, lean meats complex carbs, good fats only)The only difference is the quantity of nutrients. both groups have same workout regimen.
My claim would be that my group would have a much better workout because A- they have tons of energy from the carbs. Not lethargic, etc.
So, after a year long study, you REALLY think your group would have much more lbm just due to a few more pieces of chicken or shakes a day?
That just does not make any sense. I suggest you eat 5-7 meals a day, but, its OK not to eat 2 lbs of chicken breast or red meat a day.
BTW- this is all assuming one is natural. If you are on gear - then its totally different. eat more protein
OK, firstly you must realize that numbers don't really mean anything necessarily and that they are a means to an end, not the end in themselves. As mentioned before, you are going to have different people get different results from ingesting the same amount of food or even from following the same workout regime. FYI, there are multiple theories out there on whether increasing your protein intake to 1.5 or even 2 gm / lb of body weight is effective or necessary.
My point is that if you are training very hard and heavy, you will benefit from increased protein intake. Bear in mind that there is a difference between exercising and bodybuilding. Most of the people who go to the gym go for exercising, which means they are not going to try and deadlift over 5 plates or squat 6 plates or whatever. For these kind of people, around 1 gm / lb of body weight is adequate, as long as they are not short changing themselves with their carb and fat intake i.e., eating a balanced diet.
But for people who workout really hard, who lift hard and heavy to look like a bodybuilder or WSM competitor, increased protein intake is necessary cause they push their body a lot and it has to recover from those brutal workouts. For these people, taking 1.5 - 2 gm / lb of body weight is good cause they aren't just staying where they are at, but trying to get bigger, stronger and more muscular. Not to mention they weigh more than the average person. Which is why they take shakes, cause it's not practical to try and consume that much protein in the form of solid food.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to be a fit guy with 15" arms and proportional amount of muscularity like the average Joe wants to be, you don't have to get too worried about increased protein intake. But if you are hardcore and you want to look like a beast, you aren't going to get there by not increasing your protein intake.
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Protein is essential for Muscle Growth as it is fundamental for repairing Blood, Muscle , bones, skins and internal organs. The conversion of Protein into fat is a complex and strenuous process to the body even though possible the consuption of 100g of Protein and 100g of Carbs have very different absorption and metabolic pathways. The 100g of carbs will be much easier converted into fat and carbs essential function in the human body is energy source. Protein will require a much more complex break down of its Molecular composition, what on its own will require much more calories from the body and a significant part will be excreted. Higher comsuptions of protein will allow significant amounts of muscle growth compare to a group with low level of Protein and Higher carbs.
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And you should stop bashing things you have no clue about. I think I've seen your pics and no offense, but you don't even look like you train. Taking 1.5 - 2 gm protein / lb of body weight makes a HUGE difference in the way you feel, your strength, your recovery and progress. Not everyone will respond to the same thing to the same degree. So maybe you aren't getting anything out of them, but I know tons of people who have experienced great results from ingesting more than 100 gm protein / day. There's no point in going through 30,000 studies to back up what you are saying when it's simply disproven for a lot of people from the results / gains they've attained with their own bodies.
Fact is that your protein intake should be 1.5 - 2 grams of protein / 1 kilo of your body weight. Same amount per 1 lb is just about double and it is too much, and this is the reason why people eat so much of protein. Guys who has written down those instructions, like Arnold, Franco and the guys, has come from the countries with metric system. Science which has studied those things, uses metric system. Americans, who know the numbers but can hardly read, has change them straight to your system, forgetting that kilo is ~2.205 lb. Correct amount would be 0,7 to 0.9 grams / lb...
Just read what you have write: "1,5 - 2 gm (grams) protein / lb of body weight". Why you are mixing two kinds of measuring units in the first place. Because all of you guys do the same...If your weight is 100 kilos, you should eat 200 grams of protein per day. 100 kilos is 220 lb and with your mathematics you should eat 440 grams of protein each day. That is a big difference...
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Just read what you have write: "1,5 - 2 gm (grams) protein / lb of body weight". Why you are mixing two kinds of measuring units in the first place.
I am aware of the difference between the Imperial system and the Metric system. The reason people use grams per pound of body weight is because protein intake is usually measured in grams per serving worldwide (like 45 gm of protein in a MetRx sachet, for example) and Americans use pounds to measure their body weight. And since the bodybuilding and nutrition scene (at least in the English speaking parts of the world) is most prevalent in the US, people use gm/lb.
As to the argument about whether it's 1 gm or 2 gm per pound or kilo of body weight, I prefer a higher intake personally and as mentioned, there are several different theories out there. So to each their own, I guess.
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Kiwiol, what are your preferred methods to take in that extra protein?
All shakes or just add an extra chicken breast?
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Kiwiol, what are your preferred methods to take in that extra protein?
All shakes or just add an extra chicken breast?
I eat a lot of meat, mostly red. But I also take 2 shakes a day, sometimes 3, cause you get sick of eating too much food on a daily basis. I'm also not very consistent with the 300 gm everyday - sometimes I might only eat 80 - 100 gm / day, but I'd say on average I'd be consuming around 300 gm.
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I eat a lot of meat, mostly red. But I also take 2 shakes a day, sometimes 3, cause you get sick of eating too much food on a daily basis. I'm also not very consistent with the 300 gm everyday - sometimes I might only eat 80 - 100 gm / day, but I'd say on average I'd be consuming around 300 gm.
Ok, kinda like how I used to do before I got lazy. ;D
I currently eat 5-6 big meals per day, always with some sort of meat in them and a casual shake now and then (usually just once per day).
How much protein would you roughly estimate I get from that?
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Ok, kinda like how I used to do before I got lazy. ;D
I currently eat 5-6 big meals per day, always with some sort of meat in them and a casual shake now and then (usually just once per day).
How much protein would you roughly estimate I get from that?
Hard to say without more details, but roughly, maybe around 200 gm. It doesn't really matter though - if you are growing and getting stronger in the gym, and you feel fully recovered between your workouts, it means you are doing fine. There is no need to complicate things and get fixated on numbers unless you are going to compete and need the figures to map out an effective 12 or 16 week pre-contest diet.
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Hard to say without more details, but roughly, maybe around 200 gm. It doesn't really matter though - if you are growing and getting stronger in the gym, and you feel fully recovered between your workouts, it means you are doing fine. There is no need to complicate things and get fixated on numbers unless you are going to compete and need the figures to map out an effective 12 or 16 week pre-contest diet.
Ok, gives me an idea at least. Thanks very much.
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boonstack -- why are you so obsessed with eating little protein?
Maybe his only source of protein is straight from the tap.
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I am aware of the difference between the Imperial system and the Metric system. The reason people use grams per pound of body weight is because protein intake is usually measure in grams per serving worldwide (like 45 gm of protein in a MetRx sachet, for example) and Americans use pounds to measure their body weight. And since the bodybuilding and nutrition scene (at least in the English speaking parts of the world) is most prevalent in the US, people use gm/lb.
As to the argument about whether it's 1 gm or 2 gm per pound or kilo of body weight, I prefer a higher intake personally and as mentioned, there are several different theories there. So to each their own, I guess.
And I prefer my own kidneys instead of dialysis. Excessive use of protein exhaust your kidneys to the early grave with a high blood pressure and other symptoms triggered by using gear. That's why you should use a right amount, not just about and the some, but amount which you have calculated by your own condition. I bet you can list numerous builders with a kidney problems, and you will be joining in that bunch with that plain stupid attitude of yours, if you don't start thinking what you are doing. And it is just same if you don't use gear, it just takes somewhat longer time.
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And I prefer my own kidneys instead of dialysis. Excessive use of protein exhaust your kidneys to the early grave with a high blood pressure and other symptoms triggered by using gear.
really.
i'm sure you wouldn't mind posting ONE peer reviewed or pub med study showing how 'protein exhausts your kidneys to an early grave'?
you are a fucking idiot.
next time, learn a little about the topic at hand before spouting off in an attempt to look like you know what you are talking about.
hope this helps.
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haha great thread ;D
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its all a load of crap, stop buying magazines or you might fall in the temptation to use a new superduper crap supplement again.
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really.
i'm sure you wouldn't mind posting ONE peer reviewed or pub med study showing how 'protein exhausts your kidneys to an early grave'?
you are a fucking idiot.
next time, learn a little about the topic at hand before spouting off in an attempt to look like you know what you are talking about.
hope this helps.
http://www.webmd.com/news/20030317/high-protein-diets-can-hurt-kidneys
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2859733.stm
http://www.all-creatures.org/cb/a-restrict.html
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/03.13/09-kidney.html
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2003/04/05/high-protein-diet.aspx
http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/19/10/2678-a
Fact is that only history proves how it goes with your kidneys. Then there is other subjects like use of alcohol and drugs, high blood pressure etc. which all downgrade your kidneys ability to deal with excessive protein, and in any case you have to remember the fact of the matter: Your metabolism can utilize only ~20 grams of protein in one meal /~2hours, so what is the point to eat more than that? You don't gain anything with that, but the possibility to have a kidney failure. I know you are puzzled by the matter, but why don't you go and ask your mom, she can help and comfort your confused mind. For example, you can ask her this simple question: If you have an any kind of kidney failure, why the first thing which is banned from your diet is protein rich food...One thing which you guys have never understand, is the fact it is never just one thing or substance, but a total of every drug, pollution and poison which you have inhale or consume in your life. You don't use one substance or drug at the time, you just ad it to total which has been growing from the day you are born, and outcome from that could be anything. Maybe you die tomorrow, maybe you live to see your 100th birthday. Point is that you don't know it before it has happen, so it is just wise to be careful.
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And I prefer my own kidneys instead of dialysis. Excessive use of protein exhaust your kidneys to the early grave with a high blood pressure and other symptoms triggered by using gear. That's why you should use a right amount, not just about and the some, but amount which you have calculated by your own condition. I bet you can list numerous builders with a kidney problems, and you will be joining in that bunch with that plain stupid attitude of yours, if you don't start thinking what you are doing. And it is just same if you don't use gear, it just takes somewhat longer time.
Consuming protein in excess (say 300 gm plus / day) will make your kidney work more by that much, but that doesn't mean everyone who does that is automatically or surely going to suffer from renal failure. For sure, if you already have a problem to begin with, eating too much protein will affect you adversely, but a healthy human's kidneys (and other organs) are far more resilient than we'd expect. It all boils down to genetic predisposition - case in point, known cases of young, healthy / fit people in their 30s or even 20s who go out for a jog, have a heart attack and die, while on the other hand we have people who chain smoke, drink and possibly abuse other substances living well into their 80s and 90s without dropping their habits while still being as fit as a butcher's dog.
What I'm saying is, you have no assurance that just because you watch and limit your protein consumption (or any other food / product) you will be immune to problems with your kidneys or anything else. If your body is going to have a heart attack while you are in your 30s (not meaning you in particular), it will happen, regardless of whether you workout and stay fit or not. Take bodybuilders for example - they all take tons of hormones and other stuff and in some cases, their body breaks down to the extent we see with guys like Tom Prince or Don Long. But then there are also others who look healthy and probably are, like a lot or perhaps, all the Mr Olympias from 1965 onwards till now.
Some guys go bald while taking low dosages of Decanobol or whatever the Hell it's called. Others like Jay Cutler and Dorian Yates retain their hair inspite of megadosing all the things they take / have taken. The best thing to do would be to not abuse the shit out of one particular food group or product or drug or a substance, but again, even that's not really going to guarantee you a long and healthy life. Besides, you say that taking 300 gm protein a day is too much, but what makes that 'unacceptably or needlessly high'? There are cases of people trying 4 gm / lb, although they are in the minority.
What your tolerance is for a certain substance or food is something you can only determine through hindsight. All the BS about 'acceptable or safe level of intake' is pure hogwash because it's just an indication of what the average or mean of a bunch of individuals is - it doesn't show you where you stand in the chart and therefore, what levels of intake you can tolerate without any negative repercussions.
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Consuming protein in excess (say 300 gm plus / day) will make your kidney work more by that much, but that doesn't mean everyone who does that is automatically or surely going to suffer from renal failure. For sure, if you already have a problem to begin with, eating too much protein will affect you adversely, but a healthy human's kidneys (and other organs) are far more resilient than we'd expect. It all boils down to genetic predisposition - case in point, known cases of young, healthy / fit people in their 30s or even 20s who go out for a jog, have a heart attack and die, while on the other hand we have people who chain smoke, drink and possibly abuse other substances living well into their 80s and 90s without dropping their habits while still being as fit as a butcher's dog.
What I'm saying is, you have no assurance that just because you watch and limit your protein consumption (or any other food / product) you will be immune to problems with your kidneys or any thing else. If your body is going to have a heart attack while you are in your 30s (not meaning you in particular), it will happen, regardless of whether you workout and stay fit or not. Take bodybuilders for example - they all take tons of hormones and other stuff and in some cases, their body breaks down to the extent we see with guys like Tom Prince or Don Long. But then there are also others who look healthy and probably are, like a lot or perhaps, all the Mr Olympias from 1965 onwards to now.
Some guys go bald while taking low dosages of Decanobol or whatever the Hell it's called. Others like Jay Cutler and Dorian Yates retain their hair inspite of megadosing all the things they take / have taken. The best thing to do would be to not abuse the shit out of one particular food group or product or drug or a substance, but again, even that's not really going to guarantee you a long and healthy life. Besides, you say that taking 300 gm protein a day is too much, but what makes that 'unacceptably or needlessly high'? There are cases of people trying 4 gm / lb, although they are in the minority.
What your tolerance is for a certain substance or food is something you can only determine through hindsight. All the BS about 'acceptable or safe level of intake' is pure hogwash because it's just an indication of what the average or mean of a bunch of individuals is - it doesn't show you where you stand in the chart and therefore, what levels of intake you can tolerate without any negative repercussions.
Are you implying that Keith Jones sat right next to Jonesy from the Police Academy at a charity event?
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Are you implying that Keith Jones sat right next to Jonesy from the Police Academy at a charity event?
Glad someone out there got the message, especially you of all people, dear Lovemonkey ;D
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Glad someone out there got the message, especially you of all people, dear Lovemonkey ;D
Haha, it's cool man. Very nice discussion. To think there are things to learn at getbig.com!! :o