can someone please tell me why 200g's of protein is better than 100?

[no one]

Eating more protein does not mean your body can use it. anything excess turns to fat. Nobody here argues eat tons of carbs, because extra carbs = fat. SO DOES PROTEIN. And you SHOULD eat tons of carbs! You people eating 30-40g's of protein every 2.5 hours for 7 meals a day and starving yourselves of the many benefits of complex carbs just dont get it.

here is something you should know: there are over 30,000 published diets. Seriously. If ANY of the diets worked there would be no reason for the other 29,999 to exist. You should get your nutritional information from science, not muscular development articles written by ronnie coleman.

maybe YOU just don't get it.

case in point- look in the mirror.

[boonstack]

Haha maybe if he's soaking wet. It's always the guys here who look like they've never picked up a weight that give out the most advice. But then again, he's got 30,000 studies to back up what he's saying

I like how they throw a random number like that that no one could possibly verify (not that it matters). If he'd spent a 10th of that time lifting weights, he'd find that his body does have an increased need for protein thanks to the workouts, so it can recover properly and get stronger in the process.

your clearly not capable of rational thought.

its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.

[boonstack]

that is physiologically impossible to gain muscle eatign that...boonstack !!!let me explainscience says, rda says, a certain protein intake. about .65 g per kilo? i believe. and , in people who weight train, its actually lower. only about .5 g per kilo. and this is based onscience. totally true. but what are they saying ? they are saying that is the amount fo protein necessary per day in order to keep a nuetral nitrogen balance.nitrogen balance is a key indicator of msucle gorwth or msucle loss.   the scientists recommend that amount of protein per day in order to avoid muscle loss in sedentray individuals, beause that process is very unhealthy and might even lead to death- over time. its malnutitrition. no, how does one gain extra muscle? they need to have a positive nitrogen blance.  there is you first step in understanding high protein intake for gaining mass.

the "scientists" huh? Tell me, what "scientists" are you talking about? let me guess, they had clinical trials performed right? 

[The Showstoppa]

your clearly not capable of rational thought.

its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.

"you're"

[boonstack]

excess protein is either urinated or turned into fat
excess calories make you fat

get your shit right

Oh, thanks for clarifying that. i was under the assumption fat, protein, and carbs were the only things that contained calories.. man this is too easy.... "upjacked" oh brother 

[tbombz]

the "scientists" huh? Tell me, what "scientists" are you talking about? let me guess, they had clinical trials performed right? 

i was referncing the scientists who foun out the number of grams per kilo that an average person must eat in order to keep a nuetral nitrogen balance.     that number is about .65 grams per kilo.  and in people lift weights, its only about .5 grams per kilo.

[boonstack]

how do you explain that complete newbies who have no idea what a diet is and who eat maybe 30 to 50 grams of proteins a day build muscles just doing some biceps curls and bench press  then

even if they dont "eat the recommended official 2 grams of proteins per kilo per day" bullshit?   

Maybe because you dont need that much proteins and cause it's all and mainly about how and how often you train as a natural that defines the way you will shape and build your muscles...

Even without a daily consuption of 1 or 2 grams of proteins a day you would build muscle if you lift weights. Whatever what you eat.

"Ingesting more proteins daily might help", but at some point you reach a limit. For most, 1.2 or 1.6 grams of protein per kilo per day isnt even required.

"Ingesting more proteins daily might help" is the only conclusion of the real scientifical studies that have been done until now.

Fucking retards.

you are the only one that gets it.  its sad to see how so many of these people are brainwashed into thinking they can force their body to utilize more protein.

[The Showstoppa]

your clearly not capable of rational thought.

its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.

"you're"

[kiwiol]

see, this is the shit i dont get. What  does "i know tons of people that did this" mean? What your "buddies" attest to has not jack shit to do with science or fact.

You are a prime example of what im talking about... the whole "well my friends say this" type of logic has no relevance here.

But before i even bother, why dont you tell me what you know about biochemistry and nutrition? 4 day nutrition workshop dont count.

Im guessing you also think a person should drink at least a galllon of water a day too also right?  

Not at all, dumbo. You are the one who has no clue about science or facts. Do you know anything from personal experience as to whether protein works or not? Of course you don't - that much is evident from your pic.

To clarify what I've said, I used to work as a personal trainer part-time while I was studying at Uni a few years ago. I've trained over 1000 people, which is good enough a sample size, statistically speaking. Nearly all of the guys I trained wanted to increase their muscularity and they did exactly that when I recommended they add 2 shakes (that would add about 80 gm protein to their overall daily intake) while also increasing their intake of meat and other animal products that are high in protein. I should add that I made them lift heavier and more intensely than they had been doing up until that point.

Plus I know people who own supplement stores and they do have a lot of members coming back for protein cause they all see results. Sure, not all supplements work and it's BS for someone to claim that taking protein or any other supplement alone will make you look like Mr Olympia or something close. Even discounting the placebo effect, there is no denying that increased protein consumption does lead to increased recovery, strength, performance and results.

And I studied Environmental Engineering and Molecular Biology at University. Did tons of Biochemistry during the latter course and during the 90s, I was obsessed with bodybuilding enough to read as much as I could on things like nutrition and what have you. So I'm not completely clueless like you probably imagine. But even that takes a backseat to the fact that I'm basing my claim that protein does help you get bigger and stronger based on my personal experience and have results to back it up. Can you say the same?

[Tamer Razor]

your clearly not capable of rational thought.

its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.

So you are saying that you need very little protein and very little water to stimulate muscle Growth.....just unbelievable  

[The Showstoppa]

Not at all, dumbo. You are the one who has no clue about science or facts. Do you know anything from personal experience as to whether protein works or not? Of course you don't - that much is evident from your pic.

To clarify what I've said, I used to work as a personal trainer part-time while I was studying at Uni a few years ago. I've trained over 1000 people, which is good enough a sample size, statistically speaking. Nearly all of the guys I trained wanted to increase their muscularity and they did exactly that when I recommended they add 2 shakes (that would add about 80 gm protein to their overall daily intake) while also increasing their intake of meat and other animal products that are high in protein. I should add that I made them lift heavier and more intensely than they had been doing up until that point.

Plus I know people who own supplement stores and they do have a lot of members coming back for protein cause they all see results. Sure, not all supplements work and it's BS for someone to claim that taking protein or any other supplement alone will make you look like Mr Olympia or something close. Even discounting the placebo effect, there is no denying that increased protein consumption does lead to increased recovery, strength, performance and results.

And I studied Environmental Engineering and Molecular Biology at University. Did tons of Biochemistry during the latter course and during the 90s, I was obsessed with bodybuilding enough to read as much as I could on things like nutrition and what have you. So I'm not completely clueless like you probably imagine. But even that takes a backseat to the fact that I'm basing my claim that protein does help you get bigger and stronger based on my personal experience and have results to back it up. Can you say the same?

Transfer of ownership has taken place.  Kiwi, will wee little broomstick be required to put his finger thru your belt-loop when you go out in the yard?

[lovemonkey]

Kiwiol laying the smackdown. You go girl!

[kiwiol]

your clearly not capable of rational thought.

its not a "random" number. Its fact. However, you would probably have not the slightest clue as to how to confirm this. Your probably not used to doing research at a university, so go ahead and rely on google for all your nutrition facts about bodybuilding.

Who cares about the number? So what if there are 30,000 diets? Anyone can make up and prescribe a diet, which is probably why there is so much nonsense floating around.

I'll tell you what - post a pic of your physique to show that you know what you are talking about. I've posted plenty of mine here.

[Eisenherz]

0.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass is ideal.
THE END.

[JasonH]

How much protein eh?

Well put it this way - I weigh 230lbs and consume on average 400 grams of protein a day.

I look better than when I was 210lbs consuming 300 grams a day.

And I looked better than that when I was 170lbs consuming 200 grams a day.

Go figure.

[lovemonkey]

I've made some of my best gains both in lean body mass and strength when I could be bothered to cook and eat massive amounts of meat every day.

[Eisenherz]

I've made some of my best gains both in lean body mass and strength when I could be bothered to cook and eat massive amounts of meat every day.

it was most probably just the massive amount of eating.

[boonstack]

Not at all, dumbo. You are the one who has no clue about science or facts. Do you know anything from personal experience as to whether protein works or not? Of course you don't - that much is evident from your pic.To clarify what I've said, I used to work as a personal trainer part-time while I was studying at Uni a few years ago. I've trained over 1000 people, which is good enough a sample size, statistically speaking. Nearly all of the guys I trained wanted to increase their muscularity and they did exactly that when I recommended they add 2 shakes (that would add about 80 gm protein to their overall daily intake) while also increasing their intake of meat and other animal products that are high in protein. I should add that I made them lift heavier and more intensely than they had been doing up until that point.Plus I know people who own supplement stores and they do have a lot of members coming back for protein cause they all see results. Sure, not all supplements work and it's BS for someone to claim that taking protein or any other supplement alone will make you look like Mr Olympia or something close. Even discounting the placebo effect, there is no denying that increased protein consumption does lead to increased recovery, strength, performance and results.And I studied Environmental Engineering and Molecular Biology at University. Did tons of Biochemistry during the latter course and during the 90s, I was obsessed with bodybuilding enough to read as much as I could on things like nutrition and what have you. So I'm not completely clueless like you probably imagine. But even that takes a backseat to the fact that I'm basing my claim that protein does help you get bigger and stronger based on my personal experience and have results to back it up. Can you say the same?

The whole point im making is in these claims you are saying. (specifically, the results you got from people whom you recommended to consume high levels of protein) Ok, i "get" what you are saying about being a personal trainer and having clients, that would definitely be as realistic as testing your theories can get, real human beings.... BUT, say me and you were to do a test each. Group A and Group B. Your group is 1000 people who consume say 1.5-2g's of protein per day. My group, B, consumes .7-1g per day. However, we have to take into account the other sources of nutrients (carbs & fats). So for arguments sake, ill say your group was low carb, high protein.
My group is low protein (relatively - im not claiming protein is not required - it is. And meat is the best choice, it contains all 9 amino acids... yada yada), but my group also has high carbs. (Both groups eating SAME food sources, clean no junk very strict diet, lean meats complex carbs, good fats only)The only difference is the quantity of nutrients. both groups have same workout regimen.

My claim would be that my group would have a much better workout because A- they have tons of energy from the carbs. Not lethargic, etc.

So, after a year long study, you REALLY think your group would have much more lbm just due to a few more pieces of chicken or shakes a day?

That just does not make any sense. I suggest you eat 5-7 meals a day, but, its OK not to eat 2 lbs of chicken breast or red meat a day.

BTW- this is all assuming one is natural. If you are on gear - then its totally different. eat more protein

[Tamer Razor]

Who cares about the number? So what if there are 30,000 diets? Anyone can make up and prescribe a diet, which is probably why there is so much nonsense floating around.

I'll tell you what - post a pic of your physique to show that you know what you are talking about. I've posted plenty of mine here.

By the way Great posts!!!....It is SCHOKING how all this Experts   with genius ideas of low protein intake can not apply they own theory into themselves. It is like getting advice on how to eat from an anorexic  

[kiwiol]

How much protein eh?

Well put it this way - I weigh 230lbs and consume on average 400 grams of protein a day.

I look better than when I was 210lbs consuming 300 grams a day.

And I looked better than that when I was 170lbs consuming 200 grams a day.

Go figure.

Mind you, there is an upper limit beyond which you won't have any positive effects or results like you most likely know. The supplement industry does make some ridiculous claims about the effectiveness of whatever product they are marketing, including protein powder. But that's marketing for you - no different than the informercials you see where they claim the ab-cruncher they've come up with would make you lose 25 lb in a month and other BS like that.

But to go from saying 'I think those ads are horseshit and not really representative of the truth or even typical results the average user will see' to 'all protein supplements are useless and there is no point in supplementing protein when you workout with a fair bit of weights, intensity and volume' is just plain stupid, especially if you look like you'd have trouble benching 135 for a single.

[lovemonkey]

it was most probably just the massive amount of eating.

Yeah could be, I'm not overly convinced in megadosing protein either. Just eat and train hard and results will come.

[boonstack]

How much protein eh?

Well put it this way - I weigh 230lbs and consume on average 400 grams of protein a day.

I look better than when I was 210lbs consuming 300 grams a day.

And I looked better than that when I was 170lbs consuming 200 grams a day.

Go figure.

let me know how that gout goes for you.

You are not taking into consideration all the multitude of factors that come into play.

Such as - When you were 210 lbs:

a- did u have same workout routine? Same intensity? Did you do any cardio? What were the other factors? What was your fat & carb intake like?

But, magically, like the placebo effect, you all of a sudden tell yourself that "Ill eat more protein - and more is better!"

few weeks go by yadda yadda, you are much more "in tune" with yourself because of this astonishing discovery you have stumbled upon.

So, it must be the protein right!

Btw, are you on gear or natty?

Also, this 20 lbs increase is NOT lean body mass. Gaining about 2-5 lbs of PURE 100% lean muscle tissue a year is about the best a natty can hope for. And that is being very realistic. SO what are you trying to say? You gained 20 lbs, eating far more protein, and only 2 or 3 lbs of that is pure muscle?

Go figure

[lovemonkey]

One thing is for sure though guys.

Eat protein and you will fart. I've made some of my best farts while on a high protein diet.

[kiwiol]

The whole point im making is in these claims you are saying. (specifically, the results you got from people whom you recommended to consume high levels of protein) Ok, i "get" what you are saying about being a personal trainer and having clients, that would definitely be as realistic as testing your theories can get, real human beings.... BUT, say me and you were to do a test each. Group A and Group B. Your group is 1000 people who consume say 1.5-2g's of protein per day. My group, B, consumes .7-1g per day. However, we have to take into account the other sources of nutrients (carbs & fats). So for arguments sake, ill say your group was low carb, high protein.
My group is low protein (relatively - im not claiming protein is not required - it is. And meat is the best choice, it contains all 9 amino acids... yada yada), but my group also has high carbs. (Both groups eating SAME food sources, clean no junk very strict diet, lean meats complex carbs, good fats only)The only difference is the quantity of nutrients. both groups have same workout regimen.

My claim would be that my group would have a much better workout because A- they have tons of energy from the carbs. Not lethargic, etc.

So, after a year long study, you REALLY think your group would have much more lbm just due to a few more pieces of chicken or shakes a day?

That just does not make any sense. I suggest you eat 5-7 meals a day, but, its OK not to eat 2 lbs of chicken breast or red meat a day.

BTW- this is all assuming one is natural. If you are on gear - then its totally different. eat more protein

OK, firstly you must realize that numbers don't really mean anything necessarily and that they are a means to an end, not the end in themselves. As mentioned before, you are going to have different people get different results from ingesting the same amount of food or even from following the same workout regime. FYI, there are multiple theories out there on whether increasing your protein intake to 1.5 or even 2 gm / lb of body weight is effective or necessary.

My point is that if you are training very hard and heavy, you will benefit from increased protein intake. Bear in mind that there is a difference between exercising and bodybuilding. Most of the people who go to the gym go for exercising, which means they are not going to try and deadlift over 5 plates or squat 6 plates or whatever. For these kind of people, around 1 gm / lb of body weight is adequate, as long as they are not short changing themselves with their carb and fat intake i.e., eating a balanced diet.

But for people who workout really hard, who lift hard and heavy to look like a bodybuilder or WSM competitor, increased protein intake is necessary cause they push their body a lot and it has to recover from those brutal workouts. For these people, taking 1.5 - 2 gm / lb of body weight is good cause they aren't just staying where they are at, but trying to get bigger, stronger and more muscular. Not to mention they weigh more than the average person. Which is why they take shakes, cause it's not practical to try and consume that much protein in the form of solid food.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to be a fit guy with 15" arms and proportional amount of muscularity like the average Joe wants to be, you don't have to get too worried about increased protein intake. But if you are hardcore and you want to look like a beast, you aren't going to get there by not increasing your protein intake.

[Tamer Razor]

Protein is essential for Muscle Growth as it is fundamental for repairing  Blood, Muscle , bones, skins and internal organs. The conversion of Protein into fat is a complex and strenuous process to the body even though possible the consuption of 100g of Protein and 100g of Carbs have very different absorption and metabolic pathways. The 100g of carbs will be much easier converted into fat and carbs essential function in the human body is energy source. Protein will require a much more complex break down of its Molecular composition, what on its own will require much more calories from the body and a significant part will be excreted. Higher comsuptions of protein will allow significant amounts of muscle growth compare to a group with low level of Protein and Higher carbs.