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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Decker on August 20, 2009, 07:49:28 AM
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FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:
*give coverage to illegal immigrants,
*79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover,
*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and
*75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.
But it would be incorrect to suggest that this is ONLY coming from conservative viewers who tune in to FOX. In fact, 41% of CNN/MSNBC viewers believe the misinformation about illegal immigrants, 39% believe the government takeover stuff, 40% believe the abortion misperception, and 30% believe the stuff about pulling the plug on grandma. What’s more, a good chunk of folks who get their news from broadcast TV (NBC, ABC, CBS) believe these things, too. This is about credible messengers using the media to get some of this misinformation out there, not as much about the filter itself. These numbers should worry Democratic operatives, as well as the news media that have been covering this story.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/19/2036015.aspx
So the misinformation/propaganda campaign by Big Insurance and the republican party is working. It just works very well on loyal Fox viewers.
No real surprise there.
If it weren't for fear, death threats, intimidation and lies, the republican party would be silent on healthcare reform.
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The way people talk about it I don't think a majority of the people in the U.S. know about Obama's Health Care "Plan". And that includes many Congressmen.
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FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:
*give coverage to illegal immigrants,
*79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover,
*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and
*75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.
But it would be incorrect to suggest that this is ONLY coming from conservative viewers who tune in to FOX. In fact, 41% of CNN/MSNBC viewers believe the misinformation about illegal immigrants, 39% believe the government takeover stuff, 40% believe the abortion misperception, and 30% believe the stuff about pulling the plug on grandma. What’s more, a good chunk of folks who get their news from broadcast TV (NBC, ABC, CBS) believe these things, too. This is about credible messengers using the media to get some of this misinformation out there, not as much about the filter itself. These numbers should worry Democratic operatives, as well as the news media that have been covering this story.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/19/2036015.aspx
So the misinformation/propaganda campaign by Big Insurance and the republican party is working. It just works very well on loyal Fox viewers.
No real surprise there.
If it weren't for fear, death threats, intimidation and lies, the republican party would be silent on healthcare reform.
Thats funny Decker- What is his plan?
I have only seen the garbage put out by Pelosi.
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All the things you posted exist.This idea that it doesnt cover abortion is insane.The bill CLEARLY states it covers womens reproductive health.THATS abortion.The left tries to pretend its not but thats what it is.Its like when they include the health of the mother as reason for partial birth abortions.Health can be defined as depression.Its a joke.
The government will take over because a private buisiness CANT compete with a government run one because the government doesnt have to make a profit,doesnt have to pay taxes.
Im not sure of the illegal imigrant issue,but the other two are obviously in the bill.You need to understand what the bill really means.
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LOL- Obama himself doesnt even know his health plan because its still a work in progress.
What is the point of this thread?
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Thats funny Decker- What is his plan?
I have only seen the garbage put out by Pelosi.
Here it is in its entirety:
http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf
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Decker- all those things by definitition will occur.
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Decker, where has the government spelled out what is in the plan (in an understandible summary)? There are currently 3 bills from my understanding with many things in common.
It seems the administration is spending more energy criticizing 'misinformation' than giving the actual details. I feel like they give us a lot of lip service and propaganda. They repeat the mantra that this plan will save $ when the CBO said it will cost more. It seems like they are still in campaign mode to me...and trying to control the media and manage information being sent out. I think thats why many people are upset. The media is failing IMO...there is not balanced coverage. Yes, fox often goes too far right but its clear that the majority of the media is not questioning this administration like they should be.
I am a doc and I don't even know many details. I also heard the plan will give coverage to illegals and will pay for part or all abortions. Can you show us where the bill will not do these things?
This certainly could be a government take over of healthcare, thats not misinformation...particu larly if there is a public plan. People can debates the positives and negatives, but this is certainly government getting into the business of healthcare, we'll see to what degree.
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Thats funny Decker- What is his plan?
I have only seen the garbage put out by Pelosi.
If you haven't seen the plan, then why have you been so critical of it? ???
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All the things you posted exist.This idea that it doesnt cover abortion is insane.The bill CLEARLY states it covers womens reproductive health.THATS abortion.The left tries to pretend its not but thats what it is.Its like when they include the health of the mother as reason for partial birth abortions.Health can be defined as depression.Its a joke.
First of all abortion is not illegal if it follows the law of Roe. Second, the bill does not stipulate anything about financing abortions. It doesn't.
The government will take over because a private buisiness CANT compete with a government run one because the government doesnt have to make a profit,doesnt have to pay taxes.
The employees of the gov pay taxes like everyone else.
So you admit that the profit motive is a reason that health care costs are keeping millions uninsured.
This is where the moral component of UHC comes in: You value profit over people. You just said as much. This also speaks to the notion that healthcare is not a commodity that works in the free market. After all, if it weren't for Medicare, Medicaid and VA benefits, private insurance could not operate at a profit.
Im not sure of the illegal imigrant issue,but the other two are obviously in the bill.You need to understand what the bill really means.
http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf
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If you haven't seen the plan, then why have you been so critical of it? ???
I am critical of the Pelosi plan, which I believe it what Obama is going off of. If he has his own plan, I have not seen it.
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The daily Show had a nice graphic on how misinformed the far-left and far-right viewers both are.
Face it guys, this is the bottom line. The bill will really screw rich people who own stock in health ins companies. The bill will water down the quality of service received by 5/6 of Americans. If you're dirt poor, the bill is gonna hook you the fck up.
Since most of us on getbig are middle- to upper-middle class, educated readers, we're not gonna benefit from this healthcare plan. Why would we want our heatlh-care plan watered down?
The only caveat here is that our health care costs have spiked in the last 8 years, and that the companies pocketed the $ as a way to get rich instead of lowering costs. As a result, the govt just got the door opened to run another private industry. Just as with the Big 3 Auto and Big banking, you greedy fvckers looted for the last 8 years instead of delivering something sustainable. Now, you opened up the door for the govt to take over. If healthcare costs were down, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?
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Decker, where has the government spelled out what is in the plan (in an understandible summary)? There are currently 3 bills from my understanding with many things in common.
It seems the administration is spending more energy criticizing 'misinformation' than giving the actual details. I feel like they give us a lot of lip service and propaganda. They repeat the mantra that this plan will save $ when the CBO said it will cost more. It seems like they are still in campaign mode to me...and trying to control the media and manage information being sent out. I think thats why many people are upset. The media is failing IMO...there is not balanced coverage. Yes, fox often goes too far right but its clear that the majority of the media is not questioning this administration like they should be.
These are valid concerns. And the worst part is is that the bill will change forms a bunch more times. I think Obama made the following errors: He did not go with a single payer plan, he concentrated on the financial savings of his plan when he should have pounded the moral aspect, he does a poor job of communicating the urgency of having care for the poor and uninsured.
I am a doc and I don't even know many details. I also heard the plan will give coverage to illegals and will pay for part or all abortions. Can you show us where the bill will not do these things?
Look at page 100 under "eligible individual". The plan applies to only americans.
Abortions are legal under Roe. There is no language in the bill authorizing the gov. financing of abortions.
This certainly could be a government take over of healthcare, thats not misinformation...particu larly if there is a public plan. People can debates the positives and negatives, but this is certainly government getting into the business of healthcare, we'll see to what degree.
I think we should have gov. take over healthcare. That being said, there is nothing in the bill that establishes that idea as principle or rule.
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Actually, I agree with you...I don't like profit being the underlying motive for healthcare by insurance companies either. Its just that everything the government seems to control is too complicated, too expensive, wasteful, and gets bogged down.
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Yes, on page 100 I see where section A clearly states a citizen of the U.S. Section B states "qualified individual" (what does that mean?).
I hope your right, I certainly don't think we should be providing the same healthcare benefits to illegals, unless they are paying for it.
Government could open up more competition among insurance companies and lay down multiple regulations to protect people (ie..just a couple... remove pre-existing conditions clauses, somehow keep % of out of pocket expenses down, address whole malpractice reform, etc)....or have a single payer system. I'm not sure co-ops would work. I would try to first concept first.
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Since most of us on getbig are middle- to upper-middle class, educated readers, we're not gonna benefit from this healthcare plan. Why would we want our heatlh-care plan watered down?
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I don't think this is true. My wife and I are handcuffed by Big Insurance. She gets better insurance from her job than I do from mine. She has a pre-existing condition. I make much more money than she does but my job is 105 miles from our house. We would like to move but we can't b/c of the high cost of health insurance. Cobra is an unaffordable option.
We would benefit from Obama's plan.
And again, if this were true UHC, most of our health indicators would go up, not down. Remember, the US is ranked 37th in the world for health care.
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Yes, on page 100 I see where section A clearly states a citizen of the U.S. Section B states "qualified individual" (what does that mean?).
I hope your right, I certainly don't think we should be providing the same healthcare benefits to illegals, unless they are paying for it.
Come on guys - you are smarter than this.
Obama plans on giving the illegals amnesty later in the year and once they are made legal will qualifiy for this. Look beyond the headlines to see the real truth.
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First of all abortion is not illegal if it follows the law of Roe. Second, the bill does not stipulate anything about financing abortions. It doesn't.
The employees of the gov pay taxes like everyone else.
So you admit that the profit motive is a reason that health care costs are keeping millions uninsured.
This is where the moral component of UHC comes in: You value profit over people. You just said as much. This also speaks to the notion that healthcare is not a commodity that works in the free market. After all, if it weren't for Medicare, Medicaid and VA benefits, private insurance could not operate at a profit.
http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf
So you ADMIT abortion will be covered by tax dollars?
Insurance companies are there to make a profit.I would think thats the reason for ALL work done in America.Perhaps Im wrong.
Now,the libs say that the public option fosters competition.Once again I ask,how can a private buisiness compete with the government.The government can loose money forevor[look at the post office]pay no taxes,doesnt have follow strict regulations.How is that competition?Its like two baseball teams "competing" when one team gets unlimited outs and an unli,mited amount of fielders.
On top of that,the reason Im against the public option is that the government runs every program into the ground.Christ,even the post office has lost 7 billion the last two years running.It will bankrupt the country.PLUS do you see how the dealers arent getting paid in the cars for clunkers program?Multiply that by a thousand and thats the way hospitals,doctors and health care providers will be paid.IT CANT WORK!!!
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I don't think this is true. My wife and I are handcuffed by Big Insurance. She gets better insurance from her job than I do from mine. She has a pre-existing condition. I make much more money than she does but my job is 105 miles from our house. We would like to move but we can't b/c of the high cost of health insurance. Cobra is an unaffordable option.
We would benefit from Obama's plan.
And again, if this were true UHC, most of our health indicators would go up, not down. Remember, the US is ranked 37th in the world for health care.
Wow, I did not know this. interesting stuff.
I don't like the idea, that I've been paying 500 a month for my family and getting good coverage, and suddenly everyone gets it. But at the same time, another 10 years of spiking prices like this, and it's gonna be a lot more than 1/6 of us without coverage. I got low on $ this year and had to take myself off for a while, but the wifey and son were stuff covered.
This was preventable. health care companies did what the other 2 industries did, for the last decade. They broke the system.
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I don't think this is true. My wife and I are handcuffed by Big Insurance. She gets better insurance from her job than I do from mine. She has a pre-existing condition. I make much more money than she does but my job is 105 miles from our house. We would like to move but we can't b/c of the high cost of health insurance. Cobra is an unaffordable option.
We would benefit from Obama's plan.
And again, if this were true UHC, most of our health indicators would go up, not down. Remember, the US is ranked 37th in the world for health care.
Those stats are scewed.We include deaths from car accidents and other tragedies but other countries dont.People come HERE for health care .NO ONE from here goes abroad for health care.
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240, the poor already have medicaid....which many abuse IMO. I used to see so many kids unnecessarily in my former practice. Mom brings in 1 child who has a cold and she wants the other 3 (who have no symptoms) seen. That happened frequently.
I don't see how we can control costs under a government plan. They want to cut reimbursements and make care available to 46 million more people. We are already loosing primary care docs because they feel underpaid, overworked, too much paperwork, disrespected by hospital administrators (see the commentary on cnn website today). The % of med school grads choosing primary care has been down for years now. So, we have less primary care docs, and less reimbursement...that means docs will be forced to see more patients per hour...and thats a main complaint of primary care docs already!
Decker, I'm not sure about coverage for illegals man...they keep saying 46 million without insurance need coverage (that # includes 12-18 million illegals). I'd want to hear them specifically say it wouldn't cover illegals.
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So you ADMIT abortion will be covered by tax dollars?
No. I said abortion is legal. I don't see any language in the bill that authorizes tax dollar coverage of abortions.
Insurance companies are there to make a profit.I would think thats the reason for ALL work done in America.Perhaps Im wrong.
The nation's collective health is a poor commodity for profit.
Now,the libs say that the public option fosters competition.Once again I ask,how can a private buisiness compete with the government.The government can loose money forevor[look at the post office]pay no taxes,doesnt have follow strict regulations.How is that competition?Its like two baseball teams "competing" when one team gets unlimited outs and an unli,mited amount of fielders.
The high rollers will stick with private coverage. The middle class always looks for more coverage beyond the base offered by the plan. There will always be a market for private insurance in this arrangement. And that's too bad.
On top of that,the reason Im against the public option is that the government runs every program into the ground.Christ,even the post office has lost 7 billion the last two years running.It will bankrupt the country.PLUS do you see how the dealers arent getting paid in the cars for clunkers program?Multiply that by a thousand and thats the way hospitals,doctors and health care providers will be paid.IT CANT WORK!!!
FedEX lost more than the post office. Patience on the Clunker program. Immediate gratification is not an option. These things take time. And since the clunker program has worked extremely well, we should be patient.
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240, the poor already have medicaid....which many abuse IMO. I used to see so many kids unnecessarily in my former practice. Mom brings in 1 child who has a cold and she wants the other 3 (who have no symptoms) seen. That happened frequently.
I don't see how we can control costs under a government plan. They want to cut reimbursements and make care available to 46 million more people. We are already loosing primary care docs because they feel underpayed, overworked, too much paperwork, disrespected by hospital administrators (see the commentary on cnn website today). The % of med school grads choosing primary care has been down for years now. So, we have less primary care docs, and less reimbursement...that means docs will be forced to see more patients per hour...and thats a main complaint of primary care docs already!
Decker, I'm not sure about coverage for illegals man...they keep saying 46 million without insurance need coverage (that # includes 12-18 million illegals). I'd want to hear them specifically say it wouldn't cover illegals.
Shoot - you need to ask the question differently.
If they are given amnesty - will they be covered?
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Those stats are scewed.We include deaths from car accidents and other tragedies but other countries dont.People come HERE for health care .NO ONE from here goes abroad for health care.
The world health organization used an even-handed methodology for ranking the efficacy of nations's healthcare.
It's not biased.
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I understand what you are saying 33. Yes, if amnesty passes, they will be covered because they will be given citizenship. That is a related 2nd debate. I don't mind an accelerated pathway to citizenship and fees for people that are here illegally but complete amnesty for breaking our laws is unacceptible. Then deport illegals after that. Any illegal that commits a crime should be deported too.
Still, the provision for citizenship must be written in the bill so it doesn't attract more illegals to come to this country for handouts.
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Yes, on page 100 I see where section A clearly states a citizen of the U.S. Section B states "qualified individual" (what does that mean?).
I hope your right, I certainly don't think we should be providing the same healthcare benefits to illegals, unless they are paying for it.
Government could open up more competition among insurance companies and lay down multiple regulations to protect people (ie..just a couple... remove pre-existing conditions clauses, somehow keep % of out of pocket expenses down, address whole malpractice reform, etc)....or have a single payer system. I'm not sure co-ops would work. I would try to first concept first.
I have to admit, there are many considerations here. Illegals are not eligible for Medicare or Social Security either. This plan would seem to be in line with that.
My contention would be...cover them. And here's why, ultimately we would pay their medical bills from emergency care. But that's me.
I'd like to see more competition in the insurance field but it is monopolized by a few giants that must retain the profit margin. I'm not sure how we would implement a policy for more competition.
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No. I said abortion is legal. I don't see any language in the bill that authorizes tax dollar coverage of abortions.
The nation's collective health is a poor commodity for profit.
The high rollers will stick with private coverage. The middle class always looks for more coverage beyond the base offered by the plan. There will always be a market for private insurance in this arrangement. And that's too bad.
FedEX lost more than the post office. Patience on the Clunker program. Immediate gratification is not an option. These things take time. And since the clunker program has worked extremely well, we should be patient.
The clunker program DID NOT WORK AT ALL!!!If the dealers are getting screwed thats not an example of working.If your boss told you "sorry,I know you worked the last two weeks but have patience we will pay you when we get to it"I doubt you wou;ld say that was a success.
Fed ex looses money,ONLY fed ex suffers.The post office looses money and WE suffer because WE have to pay the price for that.There is a HUGE differance there.Fed ex,if oit continues to loose money goes out of buisiness.The post office will not.THAT by its very nature IS NOT competition.
Once again,Obama has stated MANY times that "womens reproductive health will be covered".Thats code words for abortions.So tax money will be used to destroy babies.You wonder why people show up holding Obama as Hitler posters?
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I understand what you are saying 33. Yes, if amnesty passes, they will be covered because they will be given citizenship. That is a related 2nd debate. I don't mind an accelerated pathway to citizenship and fees for people that are here illegally but complete amnesty for breaking our laws is unacceptible. Then deport illegals after that. Any illegal that commits a crime should be deported too.
Still, the provision for citizenship must be written in the bill so it doesn't attract more illegals to come to this country for handouts.
Shoot- obama is pulling the ultimate bait and switch game. of course illegals will get covered. Anyone who thinks otherwise still thinks illegals dont get welfare and other taxpayer funded benes.
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The clunker program DID NOT WORK AT ALL!!!If the dealers are getting screwed thats not an example of working.If your boss told you "sorry,I know you worked the last two weeks but have patience we will pay you when we get to it"I doubt you wou;ld say that was a success.
Fed ex looses money,ONLY fed ex suffers.The post office looses money and WE suffer because WE have to pay the price for that.There is a HUGE differance there.Fed ex,if oit continues to loose money goes out of buisiness.The post office will not.THAT by its very nature IS NOT competition.
Once again,Obama has stated MANY times that "womens reproductive health will be covered".Thats code words for abortions.So tax money will be used to destroy babies.You wonder why people show up holding Obama as Hitler posters?
Billy - as usual you give us the post of the day.
Great job as usual. Anyone who believes a word that Obama has to say is utterly delusional.
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Patience on the Clunker program. Immediate gratification is not an option. These things take time. And since the clunker program has worked extremely well, we should be patient.
Patience on the Clunker Program? Isn't it over now? Didn't the Govt. bury each dealership in an insane amount of paperwork and not pay them on time to the point that dealers are now starting to withdraw from the program?
And patience for what? It will be over soon. The demand will have been pulled forward and, looking at the current "unexpected" rise in jobless claims, auto demand will again be weak to flat. Once the Govt. stops handing money out to people to by cars, where will the demand be? The program will not last for ever.
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The clunker program DID NOT WORK AT ALL!!!If the dealers are getting screwed thats not an example of working.If your boss told you "sorry,I know you worked the last two weeks but have patience we will pay you when we get to it"I doubt you wou;ld say that was a success.
You're just wrong. Plain wrong. If the wheels of gov. turn slowly, so be it. It's likely b/c people like you are always standing in the way of progress. Just b/c the program has worked so well that more funding is needed resulting in a delay in cutting checks to the dealers doesn't mean the program failed.
Fed ex looses money,ONLY fed ex suffers.The post office looses money and WE suffer because WE have to pay the price for that.There is a HUGE differance there.Fed ex,if oit continues to loose money goes out of buisiness.The post office will not.THAT by its very nature IS NOT competition.
My point was that in this global depression, everybody had a bad year. Why should the post office be any different or an exception to that?
Once again,Obama has stated MANY times that "womens reproductive health will be covered".Thats code words for abortions.So tax money will be used to destroy babies.You wonder why people show up holding Obama as Hitler posters?
Good point.
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You're just wrong. Plain wrong. If the wheels of gov. turn slowly, so be it. It's likely b/c people like you are always standing in the way of progress. Just b/c the program has worked so well that more funding is needed resulting in a delay in cutting checks to the dealers doesn't mean the program failed.
My point was that in this global depression, everybody had a bad year. Why should the post office be any different or an exception to that?
Good point.
Again,if the dealers arent getting reimbursed thats a failure.You know,they have bills to pay,employees to pay.Unlike the government,when a buisiness cant pay the bills,the people they owe dont accept "Sorry,the government is going to reimburse me.I will pay you when I get paid".They HAVE to pay on time or go out of buisiness.Its just not fair to make them wait for the money thats OWED and PROMISED to them.
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Just a note- If the healthcare bill does not specifically outlaw abortion funding, then abortion funding is allowed-- There was a fairly recent medicaid case ( Not sure if it was Supreme Court though) which answered a similar question.
If as Obama claims abortion wont be funded, sex changes wont be funded and illegal immigraints wont be funded, then why not just explicitly say so in the damn bill !?
Decker I miss you. Stop arguing with these lesser conservatives and lets fight. ;D
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George, that was funny. A guy like me is a "lesser conservative"...true, I'm a moderate conservative. I sometimes give in to the dark side...hahaha.
I've heard a ton of complaints about cash for clunkers, I would not say it has been a success. The incentive to buy cars was successful, but there were unintended blunders. Many dealers are pissed but other folks in the industry were affected as well...junkyards lost a bunch of $ too.
Good point about "women's reproductive care will be covered". We need to know details.
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Just a note- If the healthcare bill does not specifically outlaw abortion funding, then abortion funding is allowed-- There was a fairly recent medicaid case ( Not sure if it was Supreme Court though) which answered a similar question.
If as Obama claims abortion wont be funded, sex changes wont be funded and illegal immigraints wont be funded, then why not just explicitly say so in the damn bill !?
Decker I miss you. Stop arguing with these lesser conservatives and lets fight. ;D
Hey GW - just who are you including in your list of "lesser conservatives"????
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Again,if the dealers arent getting reimbursed thats a failure.You know,they have bills to pay,employees to pay.Unlike the government,when a buisiness cant pay the bills,the people they owe dont accept "Sorry,the government is going to reimburse me.I will pay you when I get paid".They HAVE to pay on time or go out of buisiness.Its just not fair to make them wait for the money thats OWED and PROMISED to them.
The car dealers/salespeople are getting paid. People are buying new cars at an increased clip. The workers are paid from those purchases. A portion (the 4500 stimulus) of that amount is being delayed for a small number of car dealers.
I think the commercial car dealerships will survive the delay.
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Just a note- If the healthcare bill does not specifically outlaw abortion funding, then abortion funding is allowed-- There was a fairly recent medicaid case ( Not sure if it was Supreme Court though) which answered a similar question.
If as Obama claims abortion wont be funded, sex changes wont be funded and illegal immigraints wont be funded, then why not just explicitly say so in the damn bill !?
Decker I miss you. Stop arguing with these lesser conservatives and lets fight. ;D
Put your dukes up buddy. It's go time on the knuckle sandwich express.
Authorizing Language is left broad to encompass a lot of stuff. If we have exclusions itemized in the bill, I'd still be reading the 10,000 pages.
I'm certain someone will float an amendment like the kind you're suggesting.
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The car dealers/salespeople are getting paid. People are buying new cars at an increased clip. The workers are paid from those purchases. A portion (the 4500 stimulus) of that amount is being delayed for a small number of car dealers.
I think the commercial car dealerships will survive the delay.
Yeah,2% of dealerships are getting paid back in NY.You act as though 4500 isnt a lot of money.However,if you sell 200 cars ,4500 a clip IS a lot of money.Not many buisiness' can afford to be on the hook for that kind of money.
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Put your dukes up buddy. It's go time on the knuckle sandwich express.
LOL!
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LOL!
Lets see Decker- all of us have manned up and posted pics.
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Lets see Decker- all of us have manned up and posted pics.
deck, you should post a pic. Billy's an angry portly man, but he's a top powerlifter. tony uses profanity like his middle name but he's a great person to debate. 333386 posts his gun purchase dates and addresses. HH6 posts from work computers in war zones. Hugo takes time from depriving his people of social services to moderate here. Ozmo takes the time to post on his palm Pilot at red lights.
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deck, you should post a pic. Billy's an angry portly man, but he's a top powerlifter. tony uses profanity like his middle name but he's a great person to debate. 333386 posts his gun purchase dates and addresses. HH6 posts from work computers in war zones. Hugo takes time from depriving his people of social services to moderate here. Ozmo takes the time to post on his palm Pilot at red lights.
Ha ha. No gun purchases for me lately other than the 10/22 and GSG5 for the GF. I think I'm done for real. The only gun I like that i dont have is a SA Socom 2 .308 w synthetic stock.
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Ha ha. No gun purchases for me lately other than the 10/22 and GSG5 for the GF. I think I'm done for real. The only gun I like that i dont have is a SA Socom 2 .308 w synthetic stock.
have you read Billy's writings on EliteFTS? He is a smart dude. finished top 3 in nationals powerliting.
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have you read Billy's writings on EliteFTS? He is a smart dude. finished top 3 in nationals powerliting.
Whats that?
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I don't see any language in the bill that authorizes tax dollar coverage of abortions.
If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .
This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976
The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.
Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill, then Abortion is covered, plain and simple
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Illegals are not eligible for Medicare or Social Security either. This plan would seem to be in line with that.
Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"
as the Democrats did not put in words barring illegals from coverage with SCHIP
The same thing will happen with Obamacare, for adult illegals
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deck, you should post a pic. Billy's an angry portly man, but he's a top powerlifter. tony uses profanity like his middle name but he's a great person to debate. 333386 posts his gun purchase dates and addresses. HH6 posts from work computers in war zones. Hugo takes time from depriving his people of social services to moderate here. Ozmo takes the time to post on his palm Pilot at red lights.
HEY!!!!I resent that.While its true that Im a rather...hmmmm,how should I put it...obese slob.I have been in decent shape before.Here is me from June 13 ,this year.Portly would be a rather unfair description.
http://photos.universalassociates4u.com/GalleryFilmstrip.aspx?gallery=210595&photo=7026474
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Billy, thats really impressive bro (the powerlifting), good pic too.
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HEY!!!!I resent that.While its true that Im a rather...hmmmm,how should I put it...obese slob.I have been in decent shape before.Here is me from June 13 ,this year.Portly would be a rather unfair description.
http://photos.universalassociates4u.com/GalleryFilmstrip.aspx?gallery=210595&photo=7026474
Great shot. How long did it take to get all that pro-tan off?
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Lets see Decker- all of us have manned up and posted pics.
So now that you've been thoroughly debunked and beaten on healthcare you want to see the face of the man who did this to you?
At least I hope that's the reason for your request.
I should "Man up" by posting a 1/2 naked picture of myself....just for you?
That doesn't sound right.
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Yeah,2% of dealerships are getting paid back in NY.You act as though 4500 isnt a lot of money.However,if you sell 200 cars ,4500 a clip IS a lot of money.Not many buisiness' can afford to be on the hook for that kind of money.
You're right.
Why don't we have all those dealers recall all the sales made b/c of the Clunker program. I'm sure that will put them in the black.
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deck, you should post a pic. Billy's an angry portly man, but he's a top powerlifter. tony uses profanity like his middle name but he's a great person to debate. 333386 posts his gun purchase dates and addresses. HH6 posts from work computers in war zones. Hugo takes time from depriving his people of social services to moderate here. Ozmo takes the time to post on his palm Pilot at red lights.
I used to belong to Ironmagazine forum. I didn't post a pic there either but I did keep a training log. That failed b/c I hate keeping diaries.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/online-journals/66534-i-don-t-give-shit-anymore.html
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You're right.
Why don't we have all those dealers recall all the sales made b/c of the Clunker program. I'm sure that will put them in the black.
Decker the dumbass strikes again. Most at this point would do that in a heartbeat. Dealers make very little off of new cars and make more on used cars. However they had to junk the old cars as a condition of getting the voucher. So the poor dealer is left with nothing but an IOU from Obama that they are going to pay. They dont even have the old car to sell off to make up the lost $$$.
The bill itself said payment was supposed to be made within 10 days of the dealer submitting the voucher.
The fact that these dealers now have to pay huge interest payments on the float is criminal.
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*give coverage to illegal immigrants,
Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"
as the Democrats did not put in words barring illegals from coverage with SCHIP
The same thing will happen with Obamacare, for adult illegals
*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and
If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .
This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976
The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.
Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill, then Abortion is covered, plain and simple
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You're right.
Why don't we have all those dealers recall all the sales made b/c of the Clunker program. I'm sure that will put them in the black.
How about this Decker - because of the incompetence of the Governmenet, it now has to hire 300 new people to do what should have done from day one. How much is that going to cost?
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If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .
This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976
The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.
Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill, then Abortion is covered, plain and simple
13 States already use public dollars to pay for abortions for poor peope. 32 states pay for abortions where the mother's life is at risk. The Hyde Amendment does apply to Medicaid.
If the Obama bill covers abortion on demand, why did this congressperson in the House try to have the health care bill amended to cover abortions?
http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/Media/file/Markups/FullCmte/071709_Health_Reform/Capps.pdf
Maybe that provision will be in the final bill. I mean abortion is legal.
Private insurance covers abortion. I think the Public option should as well. In it's present form it is silent and that does not mean that it does cover abortion.
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How about this Decker - because of the incompetence of the Governmenet, it now has to hire 300 new people to do what should have done from day one. How much is that going to cost?
The dealers will get their money. Why do something, as you suggest, that is nothing more than an hyserical reaction to situation?
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Decker the dumbass strikes again. Most at this point would do that in a heartbeat. Dealers make very little off of new cars and make more on used cars. However they had to junk the old cars as a condition of getting the voucher. So the poor dealer is left with nothing but an IOU from Obama that they are going to pay. They dont even have the old car to sell off to make up the lost $$$.
The bill itself said payment was supposed to be made within 10 days of the dealer submitting the voucher.
The fact that these dealers now have to pay huge interest payments on the float is criminal.
What's your problem Jack?
Dealers make very little off of new car sales? So now I'm supposed to believe you're fucking Diamond Jim the car shlepper?
Some vehicles have a very high profit margin percentage, others have a low margin percentage. For example, Lexus vehicles have very high 13% margin, while Suzuki vehicles have only 4% margin. Average profit margins fall in the 7%-8% range.
http://www.leaseguide.com/Articles/carprices.htm
That doesn't include all the extras either.
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...
If it does not specifically state that their is no funding for Abortions, then it can and will be used to pay for abortions .
This is what caused the "Hide Amendment" that was passed in 1976
The Hide Amendment was the provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions for Medicaid.
Every Politician knows about the Hide Amendment, and if their is no provision ( wording barring funding for abortions) in this current Bill, then Abortion is covered, plain and simple
The Hyde amendment is funded in Obama's budget.
Plain and simple this bill is not. And your wishful thinking doesn't make it so.
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The dealers will get their money. Why do something, as you suggest, that is nothing more than an hyserical reaction to situation?
hysterical reaction is "333"'s default emotion.
he rolls out of bed every morning and needs to find something new to be outraged about
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Something else I noticed...CNN is definitely not impartial in this debate. They have ran far more stories supporting the plan (and criticizing the protestors and potential misinformation). I am quite dissapointed in CNN. They should be a news outlet asking questions and reporting facts.
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13 States already use public dollars to pay for abortions for poor peope. 32 states pay for abortions where the mother's life is at risk. The Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid.
The Hyde Amendment does apply to Medicaid (specifically) .
It forbids federal funding for abortion
it forbids funding for abortions except for cases rape, incest, life endangerment, and physical health damage to the woman.
I mean abortion is legal.
That is why the Hyde Amendment was passed, As Abortion is legal, and their were no specific words barring funds to pay for abortions in Medicaid. And this just proves the point that abortions would be paid for under the new Obama Heathcare, unless their are specific words barring funds to be used for Abortion in the Bill
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Decker, I know for sure that abortion is not paid for by all private insurers. Its a provision in some plans but not all. The trend has been increasingly not to pay for abortion.
The hyde law applies to medicaid.
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hysterical reaction is "333"'s default emotion.
he rolls out of bed every morning and needs to find something new to be outraged about
Isnt the liberal phrase always:
"If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention"???
At least that was what i was toldduring Bush presidency.
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The Hyde Amendment does apply to Medicaid (specifically) .
It forbids federal funding for abortion
it forbids funding for abortions except for cases rape, incest, life endangerment, and physical health damage to the woman.
Why did you change my quote?
The HYDE amendment does not forbid all gov. financed abortion for medicaid. If the life of the mother is in jeopardy, the gov. will foot the bill.
That is why the Hyde Amendment was passed, As Abortion is legal, and their were no specific words barring funds to pay for abortions in Medicaid. And this just proves the point that abortions would be paid for under the new Obama Heathcare, unless their are specific words barring funds to be used for Abortion in the Bill
Medicaid is not Obama's health plan. Your conclusion is erroneous. If Obama's plan covers abortion, then why did a congressperson try to attach an amendment to the health bill to cover abotions?
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Decker, I know for sure that abortion is not paid for by all private insurers. Its a provision in some plans but not all. The trend has been increasingly not to pay for abortion.
The hyde law applies to medicaid.
I know policies from PIs are different. The point I'm making though is that abortion coverage is available...it's not illegal.
I know the Hyde Amendment applies to MEdicaid. James changed my quote.
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Why did you change my quote?
I copied your quote exactly. I see that you later went back and changed it.
Even "shootfighter1" responded to you saying the "Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" by pointing out that it did apply,
The HYDE amendment does not forbid all gov. financed abortion for medicaid. If the life of the mother is in jeopardy, the gov. will foot the bill.
I already said that, go back and read
Medicaid is not Obama's health plan. Your conclusion is erroneous. If Obama's plan covers abortion, then why did a congressperson try to attach an amendment to the health bill to cover abotions?
The amendment, proposed by Democratic Rep. Lois Capps, prohibits the federal government from compelling private providers participating in the federal healthcare exchange to cover abortion. But it also bars the government from prohibiting those plans from offering such coverage. And it requires that at least one of the private plans participating in the exchange cover abortion—and at least one of the plans to not.
Under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion
Does Obama's Healthcare Plan Fund Abortion?
Antiabortion advocates say this purported segregation of private money, which could pay for abortions, from taxpayer money, which could not, is meaningless. The plan, they say, would effectively subsidize abortions with government money. Antiabortion activists note that the Hyde Amendment goes further than banning federal funds for abortion by actually barring any federal healthcare plan—from Medicaid to the private plans available to federal employees—from offering abortion coverage at all
ABC Gives Credibility to View ObamaCare Will Include Taxpayer Funding of Abortion
During Thursday's World News with Charles Gibson, ABC correspondent Kate Snow held open the possibility that some ObamaCare opponents are correct in their belief that universal health care will include taxpayer funding of abortion, although she characterized the truth as "unclear," during a "Reality Check" during which she brought up the likelihood that taxpayer funding would be used to purchase private health insurance plans that cover abortion. Snow:
Will health care reform lead to taxpayer-funded abortions? Unclear. Current law states federal funds cannot be used for abortions except in the cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. But under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/08/17/abc-gives-credibility-view-obamacare-will-include-taxpayer-funding-ab
I also see you failed to reply to the post I made showing that some illegals already get free Health Coverage through SCHIPS,
FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:
*give coverage to illegal immigrants,
Once again :
Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"
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Once Obama grants them amnesty - they will all be covered anyway.
He is completely playing a bait & switch game on this.
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The dealers will get their money. Why do something, as you suggest, that is nothing more than an hyserical reaction to situation?
Supposedly for the program to work, that money needs to be infused into the economy. The dealer paying his/her workers, those workers making purchases, etc.
I don't agree with the program, but I'm not following why you wouldn't want that money out as soon as possible. And if it hasn't been put out yet, it clearly can't be helping to stimulate the economy.
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I copied your quote exactly. I see that you later went back and changed it.
Even "shootfighter1" responded to you saying the "Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" by pointing out that it did apply,
I already said that, go back and read
It could have happened that way but I doubt it--there's no notation that I edited the response. The Hyde amendment is common knowledge amongst the abortion crowd. You were the one referring to it as the Hide Amendment, right?
The amendment, proposed by Democratic Rep. Lois Capps, prohibits the federal government from compelling private providers participating in the federal healthcare exchange to cover abortion. But it also bars the government from prohibiting those plans from offering such coverage. And it requires that at least one of the private plans participating in the exchange cover abortion—and at least one of the plans to not.
Under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion
Does Obama's Healthcare Plan Fund Abortion?
Antiabortion advocates say this purported segregation of private money, which could pay for abortions, from taxpayer money, which could not, is meaningless. The plan, they say, would effectively subsidize abortions with government money. Antiabortion activists note that the Hyde Amendment goes further than banning federal funds for abortion by actually barring any federal healthcare plan—from Medicaid to the private plans available to federal employees—from offering abortion coverage at all
ABC Gives Credibility to View ObamaCare Will Include Taxpayer Funding of Abortion
During Thursday's World News with Charles Gibson, ABC correspondent Kate Snow held open the possibility that some ObamaCare opponents are correct in their belief that universal health care will include taxpayer funding of abortion, although she characterized the truth as "unclear," during a "Reality Check" during which she brought up the likelihood that taxpayer funding would be used to purchase private health insurance plans that cover abortion. Snow:
Will health care reform lead to taxpayer-funded abortions? Unclear. Current law states federal funds cannot be used for abortions except in the cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. But under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/08/17/abc-gives-credibility-view-obamacare-will-include-taxpayer-funding-ab
Great. Another rightwing crap piece I won't listen to.
I also see you failed to reply to the post I made showing that some illegals already get free Health Coverage through SCHIPS,
Once again :
Illegal Alien Children and pregnant Mothers already get coverage under "SCHIP"
I didn't respond b/c you mischaracterize the situation...again.
SCHIP is not Obama's health plan is it?
So why the hell are you bringing it up?
B/c it covers illegals? ONce again you're full of shit. S-Chip doesn't cover illegal aliens.
You just make shit up.
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It could have happened that way but I doubt it--there's no notation that I edited the response. The Hyde amendment is common knowledge amongst the abortion crowd. You were the one referring to it as the Hide Amendment, right?
It did happen that way, so stop your bullshit,
I copied your post exactly. You originally wrote " The Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid." Then you went back and removed the word "not", (But I had already copied and quoted your original post, for my reply)
Great. Another rightwing crap piece I won't listen to.
It is quotes from ABC News, when did ABC news become Rightwing ?
But considering you went back and changed your post, by removing the word "not" , and then blamed me for changing your quote ::)
I didn't respond b/c you mischaracterize the situation...again.
SCHIP is not Obama's health plan is it?
So why the hell are you bringing it up?
B/c it covers illegals? ONce again you're full of shit. S-Chip doesn't cover illegal aliens.
SCHIP was changed in 2007, by the Democrats, allowing Illegals to use it (The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007, H.R. 3963), its now a Democratic Heath plan, just like the Health Plans trying to be passed now. so it applies 100%
Obama does not have a health Plan, they are all Democratic Health Plans in the House and Senate, 4 in total, the same Democrats that made changes to SCHIPS, doing away with some of the proof requirements, allowing Illegals to use it, so it applies 100 % .
The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 (H.R. 3963),passed in the Senate and the House of Representatives, weakens the evidentiary and document standards governing entry into the Medicaid program, thereby making it easier for illegal immigrants to fraudulently obtain benefits; and overturns the limitations on immigrant use of Medicaid enacted in the 1996 welfare reform law by gutting the administrative procedures used to determine immigrant eligibility, thereby readily permitting immigrants to receive benefits for which they remain legally ineligible.
You just make shit up.
So you go back and remove the word "not" from your post, and then try to say I changed your quote.... and then you say I make shit up ?
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It did happen that way, so stop your bullshit,
I copied your post exactly. You originally wrote " The Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid." Then you went back and removed the word "not", (But I had already copied and quoted your original post, for my reply)
You responded to my message 22 minutes after I posted it. There's no notation that the message I posted was edited.
I don't believe you.
It is quotes from ABC News, when did ABC news become Rightwing ?
But considering you went back and changed your post, by removing the word "not" , and then blamed me for changing your quote ::)
I'm flat out saying I don't believe you. You posted a blog entry commenting on rightwing hack Charles Gibson (Mr. tax cuts pay for themselves). Or don't you even read your own bilge?
SCHIP was changed in 2007, by the Democrats, allowing Illegals to use it (The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007, H.R. 3963), its now a Democratic Heath plan, just like the Health Plans trying to be passed now. so it applies 100%
Wrong
Obama does not have a health Plan, they are all Democratic Health Plans in the House and Senate, 4 in total, the same Democrats that made changes to SCHIPS, doing away with some of the proof requirements, allowing Illegals to use it, so it applies 100 % .
Wrong
The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 (H.R. 3963),passed in the Senate and the House of Representatives, weakens the evidentiary and document standards governing entry into the Medicaid program, thereby making it easier for illegal immigrants to fraudulently obtain benefits; and overturns the limitations on immigrant use of Medicaid enacted in the 1996 welfare reform law by gutting the administrative procedures used to determine immigrant eligibility, thereby readily permitting immigrants to receive benefits for which they remain legally ineligible.
So you go back and remove the word "not" from your post, and then try to say I changed your quote.... and then you say I make shit up ?
Typical made up bullshit.
"The evidentiary and document standards..."
You can't even recognize spin when you post it. The fucking law does not cover illegal immigrants. It's that goddam simple.
Your tired rightwing libertarian bullshit makes this topic a chore. You see the law requires a social security number as proof of citizenship.
You and your paranoid bretheren see that as proof positive that illegals are scamming the system.
First, that conjecture is not law.
Second, your conjecture is conjecture, i.e., you're talking out of your ass. No matter how passionate you are about the topic, ass-talking is not the law.
You hate illegal foreigners and you overplay your hand time and again. stop it.
The federal guidelines say - legal immigrants and US citizens are covered.
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/SMDL/downloads/SHO041709.pdf
Honestly, I don't understand your callousness towards helping out kids. That's fucked up.
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Once Obama grants them amnesty - they will all be covered anyway.
He is completely playing a bait & switch game on this.
What bait and switch.
If they are granted amnesty, they're as american as you are. Where's the false pretense of the bait?
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All the things you posted exist.This idea that it doesnt cover abortion is insane.The bill CLEARLY states it covers womens reproductive health.THATS abortion.The left tries to pretend its not but thats what it is.Its like when they include the health of the mother as reason for partial birth abortions.Health can be defined as depression.Its a joke.
The government will take over because a private buisiness CANT compete with a government run one because the government doesnt have to make a profit,doesnt have to pay taxes.
Im not sure of the illegal imigrant issue,but the other two are obviously in the bill.You need to understand what the bill really means.
Women's reproductive health is NOT abortion. It is Pap smears, biopsies, bi-manuals, D & C's, gynecological exams, child birth, C-sections, tubal ligations, ovarian cysts, endometriosis, fibroid tumours, cervical cancer, etc., etc., and all issues related to the reproductive health of a woman. You wanna know what an abortion is? ...It is your thoughts connected to a keyboard! :(
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Those stats are scewed.We include deaths from car accidents and other tragedies but other countries dont.People come HERE for health care .NO ONE from here goes abroad for health care.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shocked.gif)
You gotta be kidding me? Do you actually believe that?! I almost got whiplash reading your post.
I hate to break it to you Billy, but "medical tourism" is one of the few industries that's booming.
Medical tourism is the euphemistic term used when so many Americans fly abroad in order to have surgeries.
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Women's reproductive health is NOT abortion. It is Pap smears, biopsies, bi-manuals, D & C's, gynecological exams, child birth, C-sections, tubal ligations, ovarian cysts, endometriosis, fibroid tumours, cervical cancer, etc., etc., and all issues related to the reproductive health of a woman. You wanna know what an abortion is? ...It is your thoughts connected to a keyboard! :(
Wrong. "Reproductive healthcare" absolutely includes abortion. Hillary said pretty clearly.
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Most of the Americans that are traveling to other countries for treatment go for experimental treatments (the most recent being stem cell therapy) that are not yet approved in the U.S. It is widely known that far more people come here for surgeries and complex treatments. I live in Cleveland and at the Cleveland Clinic we have had many people traveling from other countries for treatment. Twice I remember Middle eastern royalty rent out a floor for a member of the royal family to have care.
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Strange...I remember reading "the Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" too Decker, that's why I listed the retort in my post. Perhaps we both read it wrong but that's odd.
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Strange...I remember reading "the Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" too Decker, that's why I listed the retort in my post. Perhaps we both read it wrong but that's odd.
100 % correct.
Shootfighter1 and I both saw Decker's original post, where he said "the Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid"
Decker has continued to deny it, and blame me for it over the weekend. But the truth is out.
Decker is a liar.
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Wrong. "Reproductive healthcare" absolutely includes abortion. Hillary said pretty clearly.
The question posed by the senator had nothing to do with Obama's healthcare plan. So the answer has nothing to do with Obama's healthcare plan.
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Strange...I remember reading "the Hyde amendment does not apply to medicaid" too Decker, that's why I listed the retort in my post. Perhaps we both read it wrong but that's odd.
It might have been or you might just have read James's quote that he fabricated showing my 'quote'. Your reply came 3 minutes after his.
James's fabricated quote came some 22 minutes after I originally posted my reply. There's no indication that I edited it.
Anyways, that's small potatoes.
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It might have been or you might just have read James's quote that he fabricated showing my 'quote'. Your reply came 3 minutes after his.
James's fabricated quote came some 22 minutes after I originally posted my reply. There's no indication that I edited it.
Anyways, that's small potatoes.
If you think the govts handling of health care will any different than Cash for Clunkers, you need your head examined.
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100 % correct.
Shootfighter1 and I both saw Decker's original post, where he said "the Hyde Amendment does not apply to Medicaid"
Decker has continued to deny it, and blame me for it over the weekend. But the truth is out.
Decker is a liar.
hahahha, if it weren't for lies and distortions you'd be silent at this forum.
You're a piece of shit. I hope you fucking die.
Oh that's harsh. I'm sorry.
You're a fucking liar and I hope you die. That's better.
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If you think the govts handling of health care will any different than Cash for Clunkers, you need your head examined.
It won't be easy b/c there are politicians holding the same beliefs as you.
Grassley doesn't want to negotiate a workable bill at all. He wants to kill reform.
Life is complex. Sometimes people are recalcitrant children. They obstruct and destroy and offer no viable alternative.
The healthinsurance plan will pass.
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hahahha, if it weren't for lies and distortions you'd be silent at this forum.
You're a piece of shit. I hope you fucking die.
Oh that's harsh. I'm sorry.
You're fucking liar and I hope you die. That's better.
Everyone now sees the true Decker :)
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Everyone now sees the true Decker :)
I hope you fucking die a painful lonely miserable death.
That's closer to the truth.
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Agreed. (not about your death wish for James, but about it being small potatoes in the grand scheme of discussion).
--------------
Certain areas of that bill need to be more specific. There are several areas left open to interpretation. In the Women's health section, they need to specifically comment on if elective abortion is covered under the plan.
My opinion is that abortion should be covered if the pregnancy is in any way harming the mother. I think birth control pills or other methods should be covered as well...I know many would disagree with me but there are several reasons why this is wise. I support the right for a woman to have a 1st term abortion (with some internal conflict) but elective abortions should not be covered.
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You have 60 votes in the Senate a huge majority in the house.
Stop bitching that your gang cant shoot straight.
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I hope you fucking die a painful lonely miserable death.
That's closer to the truth.
anything else ? :)
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FOX vs. CNN/MSNBC: Here’s another way to look at the misinformation: In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will:
*give coverage to illegal immigrants,
*79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover,
*69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and
*75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.
But it would be incorrect to suggest that this is ONLY coming from conservative viewers who tune in to FOX. In fact, 41% of CNN/MSNBC viewers believe the misinformation about illegal immigrants, 39% believe the government takeover stuff, 40% believe the abortion misperception, and 30% believe the stuff about pulling the plug on grandma. What’s more, a good chunk of folks who get their news from broadcast TV (NBC, ABC, CBS) believe these things, too. This is about credible messengers using the media to get some of this misinformation out there, not as much about the filter itself. These numbers should worry Democratic operatives, as well as the news media that have been covering this story.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/08/19/2036015.aspx
So the misinformation/propaganda campaign by Big Insurance and the republican party is working. It just works very well on loyal Fox viewers.
No real surprise there.
If it weren't for fear, death threats, intimidation and lies, the republican party would be silent on healthcare reform.
Faux News viewers R fuucccking imbeciles! :-X
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anything else ?
Decker is the perfect example of a liberal -
"In the face of failure - DOUBLE DOWN AND SPEND MORE!"
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Decker is the perfect example of a liberal -
"In the face of failure - DOUBLE DOWN AND SPEND MORE!"
Decker is just having a temper tantrum, because he was caught changing his post, and shown to be a liar.
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He is just having a temper tantrum, because he was caught changing his post, and shown to be a liar.
If I were a hardcore lib like Decker, I would be pissed off too.
Imagine, for a year they bought into this dream of the new post racial president undoing the sins of Bush, being the first clean articulate black man to run for office, the transformational "One", etc only to see what he actually is - a failure.
Imagine all the promises Obama made to these people being let go one by one and how they feel about this.
Imagine having 60 seats in the Senate, the majority in the House, etc, and cant get crap done other than a pork bill?
So I dont blame Decker, he got duped like many of the Obama voters.
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Decker is just having a temper tantrum, because he was caught changing his post, and shown to be a liar.
I'm praying to the Lord to take your life.
Oh Lord strike down James immediately,
make his death painful and immediate. Kill him Lord, amen
And since we have free market of deities,
Satan, lord and master of the underworld, kill james, smite him now prince of darkness, I pledge you his eternal soul as a reward for killing him, die, die, die
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Decker is the perfect example of a liberal -
"In the face of failure - DOUBLE DOWN AND SPEND MORE!"
Government is bad.
18,000 deaths blamed on lack of insurance
WASHINGTON — More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care, researchers report in a landmark study released Tuesday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm
333 says let 'em die, it's the free market at work.
Plus their deaths addresses the surplus population problem.
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I'm praying to the Lord to take your life.
Oh Lord strike down James immediately,
make his death painful and immediate. Kill him Lord, amen
And since we have free market of deities,
Satan, lord and master of the underworld, kill james, smite him now prince of darkness, I pledge you his eternal soul as a reward for killing him, die, die, die
You need help.
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I'm praying to the Lord to take your life.
Oh Lord strike down James immediately,
make his death painful and immediate. Kill him Lord, amen
And since we have free market of deities,
Satan, lord and master of the underworld, kill james, smite him now prince of darkness, I pledge you his eternal soul as a reward for killing him, die, die, die
Dude you are seriously fucked up! Run, don't walk to the nearest head shrink.
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anything else ? :)
Oh Sky God Odin,
Take Thor's hammer and stick it up James's ass until he's dead. I pray to you, kill him now.
And give his soul to Satan (we have a side deal going on).
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Government is bad.
18,000 deaths blamed on lack of insurance
WASHINGTON — More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care, researchers report in a landmark study released Tuesday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm
333 says let 'em die, it's the free market at work.
Plus their deaths addresses the surplus population problem.
Guess what? Everybody gotta die sometime
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I didnt say let them die. I said lets get the govt out of this mess since their involvement will drive that number to at least 180,000 with the govts usual incompetence and failures.
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Dude you are seriously fucked up! Run, don't walk to the nearest head shrink.
I don't think you want a piece of this action.
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Guess what? Everybody gotta die sometime
And you say I need help?
jesus christ.
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I don't think you want a piece of this action.
Why, am I supposed to be scared by your internet persona?
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Why, am I supposed to be scared by your internet persona?
Decker is just going through massive dissapointment as "The One" and his gang og libs controlling the govt make a huge mess out of everything they touch.
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Why, am I supposed to be scared by your internet persona?
I'm praying to Horus right now to kill James....don't think I can't slip your name in there as well.
This will be the single biggest mass murder on this forum in history.
God's will.
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Decker is just going through massive dissapointment as "The One" and his gang og libs controlling the govt make a huge mess out of everything they touch.
So you'd rather see 18,000 die than have a public insurance option?
Right?
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And you say I need help?
jesus christ.
You do, James has made something snap.
We all die nothing you or Obamacare can do about that, the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.
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You do, James has made something snap.
We all die nothing you or Obamacare can do about that, the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.
You're a monster.
Now stop interrupting my prayers.
Oh Marduk, god of Babylon, smite James, kill him now and deliver his soul to Satan. I beseech thee, kill him.
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So you'd rather see 18,000 die than have a public insurance option?
Right?
Its not a one or the other - we can help those without insurance without surrendering 1/6 of our economy to Obama and his 28 Czars.
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You're a monster.
Now stop interrupting my prayers.
Oh Marduk, god of Babylon, smite James, kill him now and deliver his soul to Satan. I beseech thee, kill him.
anything else ?
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Its not a one or the other - we can help those without insurance without surrendering 1/6 of our economy to Obama and his 28 Czars.
What's your plan for keeping these 18,000 alive?
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What's your plan for keeping these 18,000 alive?
I dont know why they dies in the first place so I cant say.
Was it lung cancer due to smoking?
Was it heart attack due to obsity and bad living habits?
Was it liver cancer due to alcohol abuse?
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Someone forget to take their Lithium this morning :o
How on earth are you here? You should have died a long time ago!
Oh Zeus, heavenly Father, I pray to thee fire a lightening bolt up James's ass, kill, oh great one kill....and deliver his soul to Satan
Baruch Hashem, baruch a la
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How on earth are you here? You should have died a long time ago!
Oh Zeus, heavenly Father, I pray to thee fire a lightening bolt up James's ass, kill, oh great one kill....and deliver his soul to Satan
Baruch Hashem, baruch a la
Maybe because your false Gods' in Govt and Hell dont exist?????
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I dont know why they dies in the first place so I cant say.
Was it lung cancer due to smoking?
Was it heart attack due to obsity and bad living habits?
Was it liver cancer due to alcohol abuse?
Overall, the researchers say, 18,314 people die in the USA each year because they lack preventive services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care.
Among the study's findings is a comparison of the uninsured with the insured:
Uninsured people with colon or breast cancer face a 50% higher risk of death.
Uninsured trauma victims are less likely to be admitted to the hospital, receive the full range of needed services, and are 37% more likely to die of their injuries.
About 25% of adult diabetics without insurance for a year or more went without a checkup for two years. That boosts their risk of death, blindness and amputations resulting from poor circulation.
Being uninsured also magnifies the risk of death and disability for chronically sick and mentally ill patients, poor people and minorities, who disproportionately lack access to medical care, the landmark study states.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm
What are you going to do?
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Maybe because your false Gods' in Govt and Hell dont exist?????
You just made the list buddy.
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All of this just because I showed you to be a liar :o
Decker, You really do need help.
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18,000 decker you think that justifies giving health care to millions?
tell me decker how many of those 18000 have the option to get a job but dont?
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All of this just because I showed you to be a liar :o
Decker, You really do need help.
You manufactured a quote and attributed to me and you think you've done something productive. You're a fucking liar, and for that, you will die!
Great Neptune, take your trident and lacerate James's colon, kill him great ocean god, kill him now...and deliver his soul to Satan.
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18,000 decker you think that justifies giving health care to millions?
tell me decker how many of those 18000 have the option to get a job but dont?
Yes I do.
You're right Tony, they deserve to die. I say we let them. That's the free market at work. It will work b/c those lazy bastards won't.
On the other hand, how many of the working poor are not offered insurance by their employer? That's something to look into? Wouldn't that sort of eviscerate your contention of death to the lazy?
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You manufactured a quote and attributed to me and you think you've done something productive. You're a fucking liar, and for that, you will die!
You are a fraud and a liar.
Both shootfighter1 and myself read your original post. The only thing that went wrong for you , was I had already copied your original post (to put in my response) before you changed it.
Are you done with the Death threats yet ?
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Yes I do.
You're right Tony, they deserve to die. I say we let them. That's the free market at work. It will work b/c those lazy bastards won't.
On the other hand, how many of the working poor are not offered insurance by their employer? That's something to look into? Wouldn't that sort of eviscerate your contention of death to the lazy?
18,000 doesnt justify millions sorry take your bleeding heart and shove it up your ass...
There are options out there getting a full time job is simply one of them lower the cost of health care do away with shady business practices used by insurance and that 18000 will shrink and there will be STILL be no need for a public option.
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Yes I do.
You're right Tony, they deserve to die. I say we let them. That's the free market at work. It will work b/c those lazy bastards won't.
On the other hand, how many of the working poor are not offered insurance by their employer? That's something to look into? Wouldn't that sort of eviscerate your contention of death to the lazy?
Great, so when 1,800,000 lose their jobs due to their businesses geting hit with higher taxes to pay for the 18,000, that a good result or solution to you?
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You are a fraud and a liar.
Both shootfighter1 and myself read your original post. The only thing that went wrong for you , was I had already copied your original post (to put in my response) before you changed it.
Shit, why aren't you dead yet?
Where's the notation that I edited my post?
Irrelevant, you're a dead man walking.
Oh ARES, god of bloodlust, slice and dice James's colon...make him into a walking colostomy bag and deliver his soul to Satan, I beseech thee, amen
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18,000 doesnt justify millions sorry take your bleeding heart and shove it up your ass...
There are options out there getting a full time job is simply one of them lower the cost of health care do away with shady business practices used by insurance and that 18000 will shrink and there will be STILL be no need for a public option.
You make no sense. I hope you're not one of those 18,000.
Your use of statistics is impressive.
Oh well as long as your safe, that's all that matters.
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Great, so when 1,800,000 lose their jobs due to their businesses geting hit with higher taxes to pay for the 18,000, that a good result or solution to you?
Your use of statistics is impressive.
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Shit, why aren't you dead yet?
Where's the notation that I edited my post?
Irrelevant, you're a dead man walking.
not only are you a fraud and a liar, but you are deranged as well.
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bot only are you a fraud and a liar, but you are deranged as as well.
I'm bound to pray to a real god and that'll put a stop to your nonsense. Now die already.
Oh Hermes, messenger to the gods, deliver a message of death to James, kill him, deliver a winged foot up and out of his ass, amen ...and deliver James's soul to Satan
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You make no sense. I hope you're not one of those 18,000.
Your use of statistics is impressive.
Oh well as long as your safe, that's all that matters.
what statistics? i used your number brain child...
you wanna pay for my health care decker ill send you my address if youre feeling that charitable, how about my tuition as well, rent, truck note, food, gym membership?
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I'm bound to pray to a real god and that'll put a stop to your nonsense. Now die already.
Decker, how long do your temper tantrums normally last ?
as I am sure this is not the first time you have been shown to be a fraud, and a liar
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what statistics? i used your number brain child...
you wanna pay for my health care decker ill send you my address if youre feeling that charitable, how about my tuition as well, rent, truck note, food, gym membership?
I was referring to your nebulous "million" portion of your quote.
I swear to god, you modern day Libertarians are now the Fredo Party:
What's in it for me...
I was told there'd be something in it for me.
Then again you are thoughtless enough to equate your tuition and rent with the cost of not having 18,000+ die.
You sound like a spoiled child.
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Decker, how long do your temper tantrums normally last ?
as I am sure this is not the first time you have been shown to be a fraud, and a liar
Relax Eldon, you will be dead soon.
Don't fight it.
Oh great Saturn, lord of the harvest, I beseech thee, harvest James's organs plant them in his ass amen...ps, deliver his soul to Satan for eternal damnation, thanks
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I was referring to your nebulous "million" portion of your quote.
I swear to god, you modern day Libertarians are now the Fredo Party:
What's in it for me...
I was told there'd be something in it for me.
Then again you are thoughtless enough to equate your tuition and rent with the cost of not having 18,000+ die.
You sound like a spoiled child.
Oh yeah, the liberals stamping their feet for free stuff during a recession every day are real mature.
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Oh yeah, the liberals stamping their feet for free stuff during a recession every day are real mature.
Well you'd better find a way to cope b/c there will be a public option to health insurance. That's just step one to single payer universal care.
Don't buck the future, it's easier to go along.
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Well you'd better find a way to cope b/c there will be a public option to health insurance. That's just step one to single payer universal care.
Don't buck the future, it's easier to go along.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/Si1vyW1yl7I/AAAAAAAAFco/a-PWo1LcOyQ/s400/liberal_idiot_md.jpg)
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Relax Eldon, you will be dead soon.
Don't fight it.
Still here , just like your original post that I copied :)
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/Si1vyW1yl7I/AAAAAAAAFco/a-PWo1LcOyQ/s400/liberal_idiot_md.jpg)
I see you're a proud member of the 20%.
Keep up the good work!
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Still here , just like your original post that I copied :)
Oh great Crom, god of fertility, plant a fertile load of death in James's ass, kill him great god...and deliver his soul to the dark lord and master, Satan, nema
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I see you're a proud member of the 20%.
Keep up the good work!
Did you know they found some skeletal remains of your ancestors?
(http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/iamges/liberal-remains.jpg)
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Did you know they found some skeletal remains of your ancestors?
(http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/iamges/liberal-remains.jpg)
Are you a tea bagger or part of the death mobs?
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Are you a tea bagger or part of the death mobs?
(http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/2008/12/idiots.jpg)
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Did you know they found some skeletal remains of your ancestors?
(http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/iamges/liberal-remains.jpg)
No wonder Decker is such a fraud.
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No wonder Decker is such a fraud.
Jeez Ozark, you'd think someone whose death is imminent would be doing something more worthwhile.
Oh great Loki, god of death and deception, kill James now, ...it's a simple request. And don't you go pulling no deceptions on me now. dead means dead. Ring it up Satan! Amen
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Jeez Ozark, you'd think someone whose death is imminent would be doing something more worthwhile.
Oh great Loki, god of death and deception, kill James now, ...it's a simple request. And don't you go pulling no deceptions on me now. dead means dead. Ring it up Satan! Amen
Did someone bully you when you were younger Decker ?
or were you born Deranged ?
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Did someone bully you when you were younger Decker ?
or were you born Deranged ?
Bullied? This is how I picture Decker.
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Did someone bully you when you were younger Decker ?
or were you born Deranged ?
I've had enough college level psych classes to recognize a rape fantasy of yours when I read one.
Lighten up Eldon.
Oh great god Tyr, lord of war, declare war on James's ass and drop your other infected hand in his colon. DEath now and death forever. Amen
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Bullied? This is how I picture Decker.
Another word from the man living in a fantasy world.
Why don't you sign off of the internet right now and go live in the mountains, preferably on property you own so that you're not free loading.
The gov. developed the INternet. You didn't. So please, stop freeloading on the work of others.
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Another word from the man living in a fantasy world.
Why don't you sign off of the internet right now and go live in the mountains, preferably on property you own so that you're not free loading.
The gov. developed the INternet. You didn't. So please, stop freeloading on the work of others.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xj0h9Pm9zyg/SSc7VyOF06I/AAAAAAAABRw/KeStQC2bDUo/s400/stupidity%2Binternet.jpg)
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xj0h9Pm9zyg/SSc7VyOF06I/AAAAAAAABRw/KeStQC2bDUo/s400/stupidity%2Binternet.jpg)
Take it easy James.
Your simple grasp of things is nothing to be ashamed of.
...oh hell, yeah it is
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Take it easy James.
Your simple grasp of things is nothing to be ashamed of.
...oh hell, yeah it is
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rLV-ZuNPwJ4/RlUedS3UEpI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/cKPvm62lXNA/s320/SLCNutbaroMeterDelusional.jpg)
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rLV-ZuNPwJ4/RlUedS3UEpI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/cKPvm62lXNA/s320/SLCNutbaroMeterDelusional.jpg)
You should stick to stealing movie quotes and passing them off as your own.
That's as zenith of your creative powers.
That and posting pics made by other people.
Get lost Ozark.
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Bullied? This is how I picture Decker.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=294739.0;attach=335650;image)
This is how I picture Decker
(http://rhodesandrose.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/noeldisturbed.jpg)
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This is how I picture Decker
I'm not a religious man but this is getting ridiculous. You should have been dead hours ago. I'm going to have to supplicate the prince of darkness again. I know he's busy.
Come on Satan, Dark master, this guy James/Kazan/eldon/ozark is made for you. Kill him. Kill him now. Feast on his soul in the tortured charred walls of the damned. nema
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I'm not a religious man but this is getting ridiculous. You should have been dead hours ago. I'm going to have to supplicate the prince of darkness again. I know he's busy.
Come on Satan, Dark master, this guy James/Kazan/eldon/ozark is made for you. Kill him. Kill him now. Feast on his soul in the tortured charred walls of the damned. nema
I knew you were a Satanist. most communists are.
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I knew you were a Satanist. most communists are.
Right. You have to be fucking Archie Bunker. Nobody could make the points you make and not be pretending to be some rightwing crackpot.
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Right. You have to be fucking Archie Bunker. Nobody could make the points you make and not be pretending to be some rightwing crackpot.
i am honest about who I am. All in the Family was a brilliant show.
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i am honest about who I am. All in the Family was a brilliant show.
Archie Bunker was a character in a TV show.
You weren't supposed to take his insane views to heart.
He was set up as what was wrong with this country...not what was correct.
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I'm not a religious man but this is getting ridiculous. You should have been dead hours ago. I'm going to have to supplicate the prince of darkness again. I know he's busy.
How long until your Lithium kicks in ?
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Archie Bunker was a character in a TV show.
You weren't supposed to take his insane views to heart.
He was set up as what was wrong with this country...not what was correct.
Ok Meathead!
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A more recent photo of Decker
(http://image24.webshots.com/24/5/13/28/130251328ukneFr_fs.jpg)
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How long until your Lithium kicks in ?
How long before death Eldon?
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How long before death Eldon?
Decker:
Be honest - at what point will you admit you were duped on November 2, 2008?
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A more recent photo of Decker
(http://image24.webshots.com/24/5/13/28/130251328ukneFr_fs.jpg)
Nice.
Listen Kazan or Eldon or Ozark whatever the fuck you are, there's nothing wrong with dying. Suicide was considered noble in Classical antiquity.
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Decker:
Be honest - at what point will you admit you were duped on November 2, 2008?
Look, she said she was "18". What the fuck do you want me to say?
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Nice.
Listen Kazan or Eldon or Ozark whatever the fuck you are, there's nothing wrong with dying. Suicide was considered noble in Classical antiquity.
Your Lobotomy didn't go well ?
Tell them you want your money back
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Your Lobotomy didn't go well ?
I wish Deckers' employer could see some of these posts. His ass would end up in the mail room in ten minutes.
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I wish Deckers' employer could see some of these posts. His ass would end up in the mail room in ten minutes.
Oh I'm sure you would like to get me fired from my job b/c it would somehow validate you and your extremist views.
Just take your beatings like a man.
Or are you going to threaten to rape my wife as well?
How low will you go?
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Oh I'm sure you would like to get me fired from my job b/c it would somehow validate you and your extremist views.
Just take your beatings like a man.
Or are you going to threaten to rape my wife as well?
How low will you go?
We may disagree politically, but I WOULD NEVER EVER WISH HARM ON YOU OR YOUR LIVLIHOOD.
Politics is fun for making fun of each other, but I would never wish another person harm.
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Oh I'm sure you would like to get me fired from my job b/c it would somehow validate you and your extremist views.
Just take your beatings like a man.
Or are you going to threaten to rape my wife as well?
How low will you go?
You are the one who has been making threats non stop,
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You should stick to stealing movie quotes and passing them off as your own.
That's as zenith of your creative powers.
That and posting pics made by other people.
Get lost Ozark.
You should consider castration, that way you can't pollute the gene pool
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Wow,
This has digressed into a ad-hom pic war.
::)
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You should consider castration, that way you can't pollute the gene pool
From the way he acted on here today, seems that Decker's castration already took place.
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Impressive harem of dieties.
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The question posed by the senator had nothing to do with Obama's healthcare plan. So the answer has nothing to do with Obama's healthcare plan.
The comment I was responding to was Jag's false statement that "women's reproductive health is NOT abortion." It absolutely is and Hillary confirmed it in the clip I posted.
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At very least, it needs to be defined so there is clarity.