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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on August 03, 2010, 09:21:34 PM
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A few years back Bob Chick wrote about how benches were not the best move for pecs and you didn't need reg barbell squats for big legs.
Having blown out my low back years ago, I took his advice to heart and agree with it 100%.
Dorian Yates said the same basic things on reg barbell squats and flat barbell benches.
While it understandable that the basic power lifts would be popular, for advanced bodybuilders, they are not the best way to go.
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A few years back Bob Chick wrote about how benches were not the best move for pecs and you didn't need reg barbell squats for big legs.
Having blown out my low back years ago, I took his advice to heart and agree with it 100%.
Dorian Yates said the same basic things on reg barbell squats and flat barbell benches.
While it understandable that the basic power lifts would be popular, for advanced bodybuilders, they are not the best way to go.
i agrre with the bench press but squats are a must.
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i agrre with the bench press but squats are a must.
x2 - my legs don't seem to grow unless I squat.
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A few years back Bob Chick wrote about how benches were not the best move for pecs and you didn't need reg barbell squats for big legs.
Having blown out my low back years ago, I took his advice to heart and agree with it 100%.
Dorian Yates said the same basic things on reg barbell squats and flat barbell benches.
While it understandable that the basic power lifts would be popular, for advanced bodybuilders, they are not the best way to go.
Didnt he say for his structure? , it was in IM magazine yes ?
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Yeah why do heavy squats if you can do some nice leg extensions and legpresses. Good thinking bob, let's not get too tired, we still have to be able to put needles in our ass postworkout.
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x2 - my legs don't seem to grow unless I squat.
yep, i dont feel them "full" you know. when i have squats in my workout my legs have that fullness everyday.
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It was in Musclemag
I remember reading it, maybe 7yrs ago
But realistically I doubt Bob sat down and wrote the article
Saying that I never flat bench, plenty of dumbells and incline and decline presses though
'He' also said Deadlifts were bad
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It was in Musclemag
I remember reading it, maybe 7yrs ago
But realistically I doubt Bob sat down and wrote the article
Saying that I never flat bench, plenty of dumbells and incline and decline presses though
'He' also said Deadlifts were bad
Just found the IM copy it was in ;D Maybe both rags run the same storys ?
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Just found the IM copy it was in ;D Maybe both rags run the same storys ?
Haha and im sure the Musclemag one I saw it in is still over in my mothers house
Is IM a Robert Kennedy magazine too?
Maybe we get IM articles in Musclemag over here in Ireland
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It was in Musclemag
I remember reading it, maybe 7yrs ago
But realistically I doubt Bob sat down and wrote the article
Saying that I never flat bench, plenty of dumbells and incline and decline presses though
'He' also said Deadlifts were bad
deads are indeed crappy.
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Haha and im sure the Musclemag one I saw it in is still over in my mothers house
Is IM a Robert Kennedy magazine too?
Maybe we get IM articles in Musclemag over here in Ireland
IronMan , its in opposition to Musclemag.
Moral of the story just buy one as they say the same thing just push different supplements but sooner or later run the same article ;D
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IronMan , its in opposition to Musclemag.
Moral of the story just buy one as they say the same thing just push different supplements but sooner or later run the same article ;D
Yeah I suppose theres only so much you can write about before you repeat yourself
Yet none of them concentrate properly on food or gear
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When you're on test you can toss around the pink dumbbells for 200 reps and make gains.
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deads are indeed crappy.
Many increase their deadlift better by doing different assistance exercises.
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Yeah why do heavy squats if you can do some nice leg extensions and legpresses. Good thinking bob, let's not get too tired, we still have to be able to put needles in our ass postworkout.
Apparently, you didn't read the article. He had a similar one in FLEX, called "Butchering Sacred Cows". Bob was talking from the perspective of someone who'd been there and done that. He'd could routinesly bench over 500 lbs; but he didn't have the pecs to show for it (he nearly suffered a pec tear, actually).
The whole point of the article is blinding doing "the basics", simply because it's what Arnold did and what Sergio did makes no sense. If flat benches aren't getting it done, as far as building bigger pecs, SWITCH TO A DIFFERENT EXERCISE. People get injured and get lackluster development, because they blindly stick to an exercise that isn't working (part of which could be due to their trying to bench-press the moon, humping the ceiling in the process).
If the basics work, use them; if they don't; do something else. That's the gist of the "Squat Sucks and Benches Blow/Butchering Sacred Cows" article(s).
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Didnt he say for his structure? , it was in IM magazine yes ?
Both IronMan and MuscleMag had that article. And, as mentioned earlier, FLEX has a similar one called "Butchering Sacred Cows".
Here's the link:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_5_21/ai_103376701/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_5_21/ai_103376701/)
Regarding squats and benches:
SQUATS
Let's start at the top, with the so-called "King of All Exercises." For advanced bodybuilders, this is more like the "King of All Back Breakers and Butt Builders." Like most trainers, I did squats for years, and I'm of two minds regarding their effectiveness. It's a good fundamental exercise for some, if kept in check. The problem is that too few people keep them in check, and many people just aren't built for them.
Along with the bench press and the deadlift, the squat is one lift in which guys really pile on the plates for low reps. The bottom line is if you're always going heavy, eventually there will be a straw that breaks the camel's or, in this case, the bodybuilder's back. It happened to me. Heavy squatting was the primary reason I had lower back surgery in 1998.
BENCH PRESSES
For some odd reason, people take it personally if I say the bench press sucks. They consider it blasphemy. "You've got to bench to be hardcore," they say. I hate to break it to them, but most pro bodybuilders haven't done free-weight bench presses in years. Are you going to tell Tom Prince or Jay Cutler they're not hardcore because they don't bench?
The problem is that unless you keep your shoulders down and back and maintain the precise groove for every rep, free-weight bench presses place too much pressure on shoulders. Again, the taller you are, the more this is amplified. There's also the possibility that you'll suffer a pec tear by doing bench presses. Think of how often you hear about guys popping pecs while benching and how rarely pecs are torn doing anything else. I need two hands to count the number of top bodybuilders whose careers have been shortened by bench-press injuries.
People bench primarily to answer the question, "What do you bench?" That's not enough of a reason for me. I'd much rather do what's best for building pec mass, and there are at least 10 exercises superior to free-weight benches, starting with incline presses, machine bench presses and dumbbell flyes. As with shoulder presses, I avoid the lowest position in any chest press.
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I'm with Bob on this one
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Bobby agrees with Bob, the most important part being
"As with shoulder presses, I avoid the lowest position in any chest press."
This makes benchpressing safer, but dumbells are still better when it comes to pressing exercises.
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As a natural you can't even afford to go without squats or deadlifts.
For guys like Bob, with 40-50 times the Testosterone, GH and Slin levels of a regular persons, it probably makes no difference sticking to Hammer Strength lol.
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I always heard bob had a medically fused back, and he cant do squats, dont know if its true or not.
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You'll never get huge ron coleman, kai greene, branch warren type quads if you don't squat
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You'll never get huge ron coleman, kai greene, branch warren type quads if you don't squat
Dorian Yates gave up on conventional barbell squats BEFORE he put his massive quads on the Olympia stage for a few wins.
Nobody would ever say that Yates didn't train his legs or chest hard simply because he didn't do reg benches or barbell squats.
For quads it is far more effective for most advanced bodybuilders to do safer movements like leg press, smith machine or body masters squats , hacks, etc. For chest, inclines give better pec stimulation then reg hvy benches.
For whatever reason9s), some hardcore types seem to think that only real lifters BARBELL squat and bench heavy.
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As a natural you can't even afford to go without squats or deadlifts.
For guys like Bob, with 40-50 times the Testosterone, GH and Slin levels of a regular persons, it probably makes no difference sticking to Hammer Strength lol.
This doesn't have a thing to do with someone being natural vs. not-so-natural. Either an exercise effectively targets a muscle on a particular bodypart of a particular trainer or it doesn't. Again, Bob has been there and done that (and has the battle scars to prove it). What he has learned is that, if inclines and Hammer equipment work his pecs better than the standard bench press, then inclines and Hammer are what he needs to use.
Heck even Arnold said as much. When he trained with Vince Gironda in his younger days, he used the preacher bench for years to develop his arms. Why? Because that's what Larry Scott used to build his legendary guns. But, while preacher curls did wonders for Scott, Arnold said they did little for him. So, he switched back to traditional barbell curls, as the base of his arm routine and he got much better results.
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This doesn't have a thing to do with someone being natural vs. not-so-natural. Either an exercise effectively targets a muscle on a particular bodypart of a particular trainer or it doesn't. Again, Bob has been there and done that (and has the battle scars to prove it). What he has learned is that, if inclines and Hammer equipment work his pecs better than the standard bench press, then inclines and Hammer are what he needs to use.
Heck even Arnold said as much. When he trained with Vince Gironda in his younger days, he used the preacher bench for years to develop his arms. Why? Because that's what Larry Scott used to build his legendary guns. But, while preacher curls did wonders for Scott, Arnold said they did little for him. So, he switched back to traditional barbell curls, as the base of his arm routine and he got much better results.
Charles Glass? Is that you? ???
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As a natural you can't even afford to go without squats or deadlifts.
For guys like Bob, with 40-50 times the Testosterone, GH and Slin levels of a regular persons, it probably makes no difference sticking to Hammer Strength lol.
That growth hormone boost thing must be a myth. It doesn't make sense.
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I agree with Bob here.
My legs grow the best from higher rep leg pressing with heavy weight.
Flat bench is worthless as a bodybuilder imo.
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I agree with Bob here.
My legs grow the best from higher rep leg pressing with heavy weight.
Flat bench is worthless as a bodybuilder imo.
If you are a young guy just starting out wanting to get bigger and stronger some basic powerlifts make sense. Once you have a decent base it makes more sense to stimulate the muscle in the most effective manner possible. THAT may be movements other than barbell bench and squat.
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i'd like to see leg shots of these squat monsters on here.
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i'd like to see leg shots of these squat monsters on here.
LOL, I am no monster but still do full reps with 405 on a smith machine and hardly ever see anyone doing full leg work with good wt in most gyms. Most do the leg press- knee flex and move 20 plates 2" and call it leg work hehehe
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if you gotta bad back just pre exhaust before squats
common sense
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If you are a young guy just starting out wanting to get bigger and stronger some basic powerlifts make sense. Once you have a decent base it makes more sense to stimulate the muscle in the most effective manner possible. THAT may be movements other than barbell bench and squat.
Exactly. Ive been at it for almost 18 years now.. and always been natural. I used to squat for years. I've really had to work my ass off to get any size whatsoever in that i am natural.
That being said, squats don't cut it anymore.. You get to a point when you can only go so heavy. I guess you seem to plateau as a natty. I've since switched to more leg pressing at a higher rep range.. and single leg presses too.
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BB is more of a marathon than a sprint...doing squats is def. more intense than any other leg exercise but its bodybuilding not powerlifting ...so to an extent switching to Hacks and Leg Presses ...your more controlled and safe...thus less injury and more workouts due to no period of not working out...thus making gains on top of gains as a result...
My Leg day for instance is :
Leg Ext x3 (warm-up do 20-15 reps per set)
Hacks x4
Leg Pressx4
leg Extx3 (reps 15-10)
Lyin leg Curl x4
Stiff Leg x3
two calve exercises x4
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I might throw in some front squats on smith instead of Hacks ...and if I still got energy I do the abductor/adductor machines when the MILFs arent on them ...
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Looks good Jaejonna! I miss my gyms's old hacksquat. The owner got rid of it cause some ppl complained about backpain while using it. I loved it though.
My workout from last night:
Hams:
1. Standing leg curls
2. Stiff leggeds with db's.
Quads:
1. 2 (plates on each side) x 20, 2x20, 3x20, 4x20, 5x20, 6x12, 6x12, 6x12, 6x12, 4,20, 3x 30.
2. Leg extensions
Calves.
Sometimes i'll go heavier, into the 7 and 8 plates aside for high reps. About 5 years ago, when i used to be stronger (and still do squats) I got 9 plates aside for a set of 20 reps. That's probably my best gym accomplishment ever.
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Nothing can replace compound movements like squats and deads. Nothing
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Nothing can replace compound movements like squats and deads. Nothing
Meltdown.
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A few years back Bob Chick wrote about how benches were not the best move for pecs and you didn't need reg barbell squats for big legs.
Having blown out my low back years ago, I took his advice to heart and agree with it 100%.
Dorian Yates said the same basic things on reg barbell squats and flat barbell benches.
While it understandable that the basic power lifts would be popular, for advanced bodybuilders, they are not the best way to go.
One-size-fits-all, blanket suggestions are not the best way to go either. Everyone is different to some degree.
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One-size-fits-all, blanket suggestions are not the best way to go either. Everyone is different to some degree.
And THAT was the point of Chick's article. There are those (most, I'd say) who benefit from doing the "basic" exercises, like squats and bench presses. But, there are others for whom these movements aren't the best, in terms of muscular development.
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Squat sucks for people with long limbs.
I made great gains in my legs the past 2 years by not doing squats anymore and doing heavy leg presses instead
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I've got a lower back injury that keeps me from having any real weight above my chest cavity...this includes shrugs, upright rows, standing shoulder presses, front shoulder dumbell raises, standing calf raises and squats.
hmmm....I had a point to make when I typed this but I've forgotten what is was and am now just f*cking depressed..... :'(
Oh ya...ironically I can still deadlift without pain if I keep the weight under 285...weird...
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I benched 525lbs slow and no hip movement. That was 10 yrs ago and cant do them anymore, kills my right elbow and shoulder. Now db presses are the way for me and pecs are thicker than then too.
In the past i was a leg presser cuz i was lazy. Now i do squats every week to 405x6 and 495x4 for now.....looking to get to 10 nreps then ill quit and stay there. 29" quads, i aint complainin.
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Bob Chick says "Sponsers suck but schmoes blow."
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And THAT was the point of Chick's article. There are those (most, I'd say) who benefit from doing the "basic" exercises, like squats and bench presses. But, there are others for whom these movements aren't the best, in terms of muscular development.
Correct. Howard, however, did not get that point.
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agree also....squats arent needed...i rarely do standard squats....i usually do front squat, or leg press for my pressing movement...
bench
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Correct. Howard, however, did not get that point.
NO, I hate to stop posting to take a dumb. My sphincter locked up and I passed out, thus failing to complete the post thread here at GET BIG>
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NO, I hate to stop posting to take a dumb. My sphincter locked up and I passed out, thus failing to complete the post thread here at GET BIG>
You said very clearly in the opening post that squats and benches are not ideal for advanced lifters. Are you seriously denying that? Are you also seriously suggesting that all top lifters should not bother with squats or benches?
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some peoples structure lends itself better to squats where as other people can squat and squat and not see the results, all just depends on body type i guess. For me i had to really work at squats to where i was doing them correctly to get the full benefit
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When you're on test you can toss around the pink dumbbells for 200 reps and make gains.
no man, not true. maybe for a newB who is one his first few weeks of a cycle. steroids arent magic, they amplify your recovery and speed up strength/mucsle gains that occur from your workouts. but results are always correspondant to training stimulis, whether on roids or not. with roids you get more results for the same effort, but progressive overload still applies and you cant make gains unless your taxing the muscle beyond what it had been taxed before.
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You said very clearly in the opening post that squats and benches are not ideal for advanced lifters. Are you seriously denying that? Are you also seriously suggesting that all top lifters should not bother with squats or benches?
Well there Judge Judy, you got me. Guilty for fraudulent posting on GET BIG. :'(
I hereby sentence myself to watching 2 hrs of Goodrum's posing routines.
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One-size-fits-all, blanket suggestions are not the best way to go either. Everyone is different to some degree.
I agree! That is why "Degree" deodorant came out with sport and tropical forest to go along with their original scent
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I'd say that as a beginner you'll need to squat and bench for maximum gains.
As you progress ( and get old and tired ;D ) you can substitute them with other movements.
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no man, not true. maybe for a newB who is one his first few weeks of a cycle. steroids arent magic, they amplify your recovery and speed up strength/mucsle gains that occur from your workouts. but results are always correspondant to training stimulis, whether on roids or not. with roids you get more results for the same effort, but progressive overload still applies and you cant make gains unless your taxing the muscle beyond what it had been taxed before.
I agree with the progressional overload principle even with gear Taylor, but it sometimes amazes me how little the progression has to be with gear. I've seen this phenomenon over and over again in the gyms over the years.
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as i said in the bible many times,,you can build a top national physiqe by using bowflex,,inorder to do well in the professional you will hav eto have the genetic qualities needed,,when it comes to getting your pro card you can do it with bow flex and number of dumbells ,,the most important thing is to respond well to LEGIT drug and to have enough money to be able to buy it ,,consistancy in THE DRUG takin is the key,,then training goes along with it ,,and finally to nail condition to the t nutrition come in ,,but you will not get anywhere in bodybuilding EVER with out the legit drugs and the right dose for the size/weight you are after,,
gh15 approved
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Hows this for a course gh15...
Insulin 10iu 3x daily
GH 5iu 2x daily
Ghrp6 200mcg 3x daily
Anavar 10mg 4 daily
Sust 250 4x weekly
Tri tren 180mg 5x weekly
Test400 (200mg cyp, 200mg ent) 4x weekly
Nolva 10mg daily
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I worked up to a 405 below paralell squat at a bodyweight of around 155 pounds.............I got shit results.
Also did 250 for 20,and 315 for 10..............got my best results doing leg presses and hacks but my legs are still my worst bodypart.
8-12 reps is best for pecs,but still a lot of guys max out on benches every week and have the rotator cuffs of a 90 year old sooner than later.
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I worked up to a 405 below paralell squat at a bodyweight of around 155 pounds.............I got shit results.
Also did 250 for 20,and 315 for 10..............got my best results doing leg presses and hacks but my legs are still my worst bodypart.
8-12 reps is best for pecs,but still a lot of guys max out on benches every week and have the rotator cuffs of a 90 year old sooner than later.
Ive squated 310kg for 2reps and generally squat very heavy and always have done and my quads are by far my best bodypart
I dont flat bench but we have great free weight decline and incline benches in my gym and I do usually 10,10,8,6 for my chest pressing exercises
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Ive squated 310kg for 2reps and generally squat very heavy and always have done and my quads are by far my best bodypart
I dont flat bench but we have great free weight decline and incline benches in my gym and I do usually 10,10,8,6 for my chest pressing exercises
::) ::) ::)
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::) ::) ::)
Irish record at my bodyweight you gypsy
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as i said in the bible many times,,you can build a top national physiqe by using bowflex,,inorder to do well in the professional you will hav eto have the genetic qualities needed,,when it comes to getting your pro card you can do it with bow flex and number of dumbells ,,the most important thing is to respond well to LEGIT drug and to have enough money to be able to buy it ,,consistancy in THE DRUG takin is the key,,then training goes along with it ,,and finally to nail condition to the t nutrition come in ,,but you will not get anywhere in bodybuilding EVER with out the legit drugs and the right dose for the size/weight you are after,,
gh15 approved
Screw it, I am just going to say this loud and pull no punches.
I don't know which is more pathetic:
1. Your silly claims that BB success is all about drugs
or
2. The idiots that believe it to be true.