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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on September 28, 2010, 01:23:32 AM
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That was a poor explanation from Rockell....the explanation sucked and the rule sucks...50% of the show being judged on the second day but 7th place and lower can't move up into top six? YET 50% of the judging is done on the second day...If that isn't stupid, then I don't know what is...In addition, 50% of the show is judged in the last 1-2 min of the final posedown but there are no rules for this round....Just kinda walk around and "go to war" posing head to head? Sounds really fair ::)
Oh yeah the "Ya gotta cut it off somewhere" comment? Someone commented best, places 7-10 aka 7th-10th best bodybuilders in the world aren't worth moving up into a possible 6th place...
To put it in better terms, the seventh place winner is not worthy of being compared to the 6th place person on the second day where 50% of the judging takes place in the last 1-2 min....What kind of a fuckin' joke is this in the top show in the sport?
Look for this to be avoided to be talked about in the future...
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The rules sound stupid but the fact is the 7th-10th placings were actually pretty sound, non eof those guys deserved to be in the top 6. Kai, Vic, Freeman, Hide got exactly the right spots. It's wihtin the top 6 that the placing is more questionable.
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The IFBB isn't responsible to anyone and can do whatever they like. The Pro League ditto. They appoint the pro athletes rep. For life. There he was MCing the show. Talk about bullshit.
The bodybuilders go along with all that crap because anyone who speaks out gets placed down, etc. Judge the damn show on the Friday and that is that. No more judging. The judges get together and talk and this contaminates the whole damn process. The IFBB love this because they can help the judges who might be deviating too far from the others! A travesty for sure.
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The rules sound stupid but the fact is the 7th-10th placings were actually pretty sound, non eof those guys deserved to be in the top 6. Kai, Vic, Freeman, Hide got exactly the right spots. It's wihtin the top 6 that the placing is more questionable.
I agree with this year but I'm talking about the rule in general...Although Kai should have placed behind Vic and Vic could have been ahead of Rockel.
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I agree with this year but I'm talking about the rule in general...Although Kai should have placed behind Vic and Vic could have been ahead of Rockel.
I agree those rules will create problems soon enough. Vic better than Kai? That's possible. But Rockel had a better overall combo. I actually would have placed him even a bit higher, probably 4th or 5th, 'cauuse him and Wolf were close. What I don't get is Branch 3rd. Ok, the guy has done some adjusments in the right direction and his conditioning and mass are crazy but the proportions, symmetry are still too poor and his back is still lacking in definition even with his conditioning. I have him 6th no higher.
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Wiggs, they judge the final 6 comparisons at night just before the "posedown" as part of the "posedown."
The fact that 7 thru 10 get no chance to move up at night sucks dogs balls though.
Also, 6 of the 11 judges have their scores removed (3 highest and lowest). Are the IFBB saying they don't trust the judgement of the majority of their judges?
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Here's what bothers me most about it...That half the show is judged on the second night....If that is so and posing routines are not judged...That means the only way you can move in placings is by being in the top 6....7th and lower cannot be changed period because the posing routines aren't judged and all the judging the second day happens ONLY during the posedown...Which makes the 2nd day pointless for 7th and up...
This is worse than it was before...
A fucking joke and these rules are much worse than what was in place before...Hard to believe.
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Wiggs they judge the comparisons of the top 6 during the finals didn't you watch the replay? I doubt they judge the "posedown" at all.
Nice to see you angry though... :)
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Wiggs they judge the comparisons of the top 6 during the finals didn't you watch the replay? I doubt they judge the "posedown" at all.
Nice to see you angry though... :)
Yeah, I got that...thanks...doesn't take care of the part that irks me the worse..for places 7th and worse.
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Yeah, I got that...thanks...doesn't take care of the part that irks me the worse..for places 7th and worse.
Listening to the show now seems Jim is talking about having more judging.
I think they should judge the posing round for the top 10 from the prejudging but judge it as a physique round. In other words if you don't hit your best shots you don't score max points - the "entertainment " factor isn't judged.
The reason they need to judge the posing round as a physique round is the fact that it is basically where the guys get to do their signature poses that show their bodies at their best.... right now the whole show comes down to the mandatories pretty much.
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i agree there are a whole host of conflicts and things that make zero sense
* top bodybuilding contest in the world, but only 6 bodybuilders have a chance to ascend their placement.....
(so some guys can move up if they show up better the next day, but others cant)
* still dont know what to do with posing, or whether or not to score it
* every year it changes how much of the score is weighted on prejudging compared to the night show
* callouts are lazy, some guys get called out once, and dont get compred with others
* and how the olympia is held over two days, making competitors have to peak twice, which day carries more weight?
and lets not even get into the more body-subjective things like how a guy like jay can be in first, then a guy like phil can be in second, then a guy like branch in third, then dex in fourth
........so what wins out, aesthetics or condition
its amazing after all this time, almost 50 years they have not been able to establish consistant rules and judging guidelines............ev ery year at the athletes meetings the scoring is revamped, only to be revamped again the following year
and what about non-white competitors, shouldnt they be assessed a numeric penalty based on the fact that they have no souls..... ;) ;) ;)
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If the judges are qualified then all votes should count just like they do in the Olympic games. Why they delete top and bottom scores is a carry over from the days judges were recruited from all the local gym owners. That way everyone voted for the guys from their gyms and it evened out as long as all gyms were represented. I think the bodybuilders would rather have scores from all 11 judges instead of having the current system. If they are going to delete the top and bottom 3 then they should recruit another 6 judges so that 11 are counted in the final tally. 5 judges shouldn't be deciding who wins. That is another way of eliminating deviation. Can you see this, good people? It may well be that the judges putting people high or lower are doing the most valid judging. If you eliminate them then you introduce unfairness and that is what they are trying to avoid.
Once a judge shows bias he is never allowed to judge again. I have had experience setting up a judging system from criteria to assessing judges. I can tell you it is not easy finding intelligent, competent, unbiased and consistent judges.
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i agree there are a whole host of conflicts and things that make zero sense
* top bodybuilding contest in the world, but only 6 bodybuilders have a chance to ascend their placement.....
(so some guys can move up if they show up better the next day, but others cant)
* still dont know what to do with posing, or whether or not to score it
* every year it changes how much of the score is weighted on prejudging compared to the night show
* callouts are lazy, some guys get called out once, and dont get compred with others
* and how the olympia is held over two days, making competitors have to peak twice, which day carries more weight?
and lets not even get into the more body-subjective things like how a guy like jay can be in first, then a guy like phil can be in second, then a guy like branch in third, then dex in fourth
........so what wins out, aesthetics or condition
its amazing after all this time, almost 50 years they have not been able to establish consistant rules and judging guidelines............ev ery year at the athletes meetings the scoring is revamped, only to be revamped again the following year
and what about non-white competitors, shouldnt they be assessed a numeric penalty based on the fact that they have no souls..... ;) ;) ;)
I thought you guys were the "white soulless devils"? :D
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Here's what bothers me most about it...That half the show is judged on the second night....If that is so and posing routines are not judged...That means the only way you can move in placings is by being in the top 6....7th and lower cannot be changed period because the posing routines aren't judged and all the judging the second day happens ONLY during the posedown...Which makes the 2nd day pointless for 7th and up...
This is worse than it was before...
A fucking joke and these rules are much worse than what was in place before...Hard to believe.
Some way or another, the posing/third round was judged. Because after the prejudging and the way the callouts went, Kai was lucky to make the top 10.
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If the judges are qualified then all votes should count just like they do in the Olympic games. Why they delete top and bottom scores is a carry over from the days judges were recruited from all the local gym owners. That way everyone voted for the guys from their gyms and it evened out as long as all gyms were represented. I think the bodybuilders would rather have scores from all 11 judges instead of having the current system. If they are going to delete the top and bottom 3 then they should recruit another 6 judges so that 11 are counted in the final tally. 5 judges shouldn't be deciding who wins. That is another way of eliminating deviation. Can you see this, good people? It may well be that the judges putting people high or lower are doing the most valid judging. If you eliminate them then you introduce unfairness and that is what they are trying to avoid.
Once a judge shows bias he is never allowed to judge again. I have had experience setting up a judging system from criteria to assessing judges. I can tell you it is not easy finding intelligent, competent, unbiased and consistent judges.
I agree they are actually increasing their error and for someone to move up they would need pretty much the entire panel to change their minds each round.
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If they brought back judging for the posing round (of the body not the "posing/dancing/grapefruit skills") then what mix should the 3 rounds then take?
Maybe this:
Pre judging worth 40%.
Posing Round (top 15 guys) worth 20%
Final Comparisons/Posedown (top 6 guys) 40%
At least then the guys have small chance of moving up into the top 6 during the posing round but it isn't worth as much as the entire prejudging.
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Rounds should not be scored. Another way to introduce errors. Use whatever rounds to select the finalists and other placings. Those placings decide the outcome, not the round scores.
I honestly think Ben Weider was misguided when he selected the rounds system. He thought that would impress the Olympic committee. Ben died without seeing our sport in the Olympic games. Can anyone even imagine this could happen in the future? Only if they have a chemical Olympics!
Ben and Joe must have figured the bodybuilders were, collectively, knuckleheads so could not be entrusted to help with formulating rules, etc. The show goes on and the musclemen are almost omitted from the process. I can't see much happening by way of improvement if their athletes rep is typical of the calibre of person involved. Weinberger I do know and that guy shouldn't be anywhere around a contest. Bev is fine.
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Wiggs, you're right. Bristol should have placed much higher.
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Rounds should not be scored. Another way to introduce errors. Use whatever rounds to select the finalists and other placings. Those placings decide the outcome, not the round scores.
You've lost me Vince... Don't score rounds but still have rounds?
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bob chick messed this up and is now avoiding it. based on his logic...the judges are smart enough to score strength and tumbling in the high octane fitness individual rounds and use those scores to give adela another manion jr win...but they are too stupid to judge the slow pace men's individual posing whereas they just have to make sure each guy hits the mandatory poses, improves from day 1 to bump his score and gets a couple of extra % pts for a unique posing routine vs another guy who just stands and pts at the crowd. Based on this…kai should have finished in the top 6.
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bob chick messed this up and is now avoiding it. based on his logic...the judges are smart enough to score strength and tumbling in the high octane fitness individual rounds and use those scores to give adela another manion jr win...but they are too stupid to judge the slow pace men's individual posing whereas they just have to make sure each guy hits the mandatory poses, improves from day 1 to bump his score and gets a couple of extra % pts for a unique posing routine vs another guy who just stands and pts at the crowd. Based on this…kai should have finished in the top 6.
If you look back to when all the guys did standard routines (basically pre 1991 Vince Taylor Terminator routine - that changed everything) then the main focus of the round was for the individual to do poses that showed their physique off in it's best light doing poses that suited that particular person.
Think of Arnold in pumping iron... he did his best poses of which few were mandatories. His best shots were all those twisting 3/4 poses where he looked awesome.
Interesting to note that they let the bbers do their own poses during the prejudging back in 1975 why not allow that now somehow?
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bob chick messed this up and is now avoiding it. based on his logic...the judges are smart enough to score strength and tumbling in the high octane fitness individual rounds and use those scores to give adela another manion jr win...but they are too stupid to judge the slow pace men's individual posing whereas they just have to make sure each guy hits the mandatory poses, improves from day 1 to bump his score and gets a couple of extra % pts for a unique posing routine vs another guy who just stands and pts at the crowd. Based on this…kai should have finished in the top 6.
First, I dont make any decision single handed...anything I submit has to be approved by the IFBB Pro League and voted on.
Second, scoring the actual posing round was dropped...because its impossible to score fairly. Dorian and Ronniw won posing round after posing round while arguably being the worst posers on the stage.
That said, the POSING ROUND and POSEDOWN arent the big deal...the final round of COMPARISONS are. THAT'S where the debate is, and whether it should be expanded....I personally believe ( and brought up at the time it was voted on) that anyone with a mathematical chance of moving up should be included....or just make it top 15, or whatever. I dont like closing the door on judging at any point. Of course you have to draw the line somewhere.....My call would be, once you make top 15,and perform a routine, then you are included in the final judging.
Understand what you're talking about before making comments, or putting words in my mouth.
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i like the way the olympia was judged b4 with prejudging bein the most of the score.. then the posedown bein scored on the nite show, thats it thats all.........only thing different is i would let 10 guys go to the posedown then take ur time n move them around......the posing thing is a joke cause the guy who looks the best but is the worst poser is still gonna s win, obvously cause nothins changed he still looks the best dont matter how he moves it..u can still have a best poser trophy n check for best poser, but it should not be part of the score, its bodybuilding not dancing or ballet....the muscles still look about the same dont matter were or how you move them.
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Here's what bothers me most about it...That half the show is judged on the second night....If that is so and posing routines are not judged...That means the only way you can move in placings is by being in the top 6....7th and lower cannot be changed period because the posing routines aren't judged and all the judging the second day happens ONLY during the posedown...Which makes the 2nd day pointless for 7th and up...
This is worse than it was before...
A fucking joke and these rules are much worse than what was in place before...Hard to believe.
I think you're misunderstanding a bit. The posing "routine" isn't judged, but they still judge the physique during the posing routines. In other words, Kai can do all the somersaults and headstands he wants, but they're only judging WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE while doing it.
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You've lost me Vince... Don't score rounds but still have rounds?
I don't like rounds. That one where they stand front side, etc., is bullshit and a waste of time. The NABBA system worked well for a decade and a half before the IFBB disaster with rounds. Whatever was Ben Weider thinking? Too bad he wasn't a bodybuilder. At least Joe competed in the old days.
The process is to find a winner. In contests where you have heaps of competitors you have to make groups smaller. Height and weight classes are two ways to go. However, the final Mr winner can be decided without regard to height or weight. With about 20 in the Mr Olympia you don't need classes or rounds. Except for the under 202 which is a separate contest.
Bring out the competitors in groups of 10 for the turns. Then compulsory poses. Then let everyone do his routine. Then bring out the finalists and compare until the cows come home. Places only and the lowest score wins. All votes to count. Bad judges booted out forever.
You need a process where the judges identify the top competitors. They need to see everyone do their routine and they need to see everyone do the compulsory poses. That way no one is overlooked. Then when you have the finalists you do comparisons until the winner and placegetters are picked.
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First, I dont make any decision single handed...anything I submit has to be approved by the IFBB Pro League and voted on.
Second, scoring the actual posing round was dropped...because its impossible to score fairly. Dorian and Ronniw won posing round after posing round while arguably being the worst posers on the stage.
At least, it wasn't "Twinkle Toe" music. And, Ronnie cracked the top 15.
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Judges know very quickly how they are going to place everyone. They need a few comparisons at pre-judging and they pretty much have everyone slotted. The problem is that we are trying to stretch this into 2 shows, but why are we judging mandatories on Friday and then re-judging the same mandatories on Saturday? The whole show should be Saturday night. Start with individual 2 minute posing routines, then move on to comparisons with quarter turns and mandatories. No 50/50 split, just who is the best bodybuilder that night. The posing routines give an initial look at each competitor, then we move on to comparisons and determine the winner. So simple.
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First, I dont make any decision single handed...anything I submit has to be approved by the IFBB Pro League and voted on.
Second, scoring the actual posing round was dropped...because its impossible to score fairly. Dorian and Ronniw won posing round after posing round while arguably being the worst posers on the stage.
That said, the POSING ROUND and POSEDOWN arent the big deal...the final round of COMPARISONS are. THAT'S where the debate is, and whether it should be expanded....I personally believe ( and brought up at the time it was voted on) that anyone with a mathematical chance of moving up should be included....or just make it top 15, or whatever. I dont like closing the door on judging at any point. Of course you have to draw the line somewhere.....My call would be, once you make top 15,and perform a routine, then you are included in the final judging.
Understand what you're talking about before making comments, or putting words in my mouth.
Calling Dorian one of the worst posers tells me how truly ignorant you are. Dorian was a solid if not good poser who posed to very powerful music that fit his body perfectly well. Granted, in 1991 he was heavily critized for his posing routine. He took this to heart and in 1992 when he won his first Olympia he had an awesome routine to very fast and powerful music.
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Calling Dorian one of the worst posers tells me how truly ignorant you are. Dorian was a solid if not good poser who posed to very powerful music that fit his body perfectly well. Granted, in 1991 he was heavily critized for his posing routine. He took this to heart and in 1992 when he won his first Olympia he had an awesome routine to very fast and powerful music.
Riiiiiight....and making this comment tells me how bias you are towards Dorian. Compared to the many others he competed against, he wassn't anywhere NEAR the best in the "posing round", which makes my point even more valid....
Speaking of which...Even you admit his posing sucked in 1991...but yet he WON the posing round that year.....comments?
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Riiiiiight....and making this comment tells me how bias you are towards Dorian. Compared to the many others he competed against, he wassn't anywhere NEAR the best in the "posing round", which makes my point even more valid....
Speaking of which...Even you admit his posing sucked in 1991...but yet he WON the posing round that year.....comments?
LOL. Dorian didn't win the posing round in 1991. In all his Olympia wins Dorian had a very polished routine, smooth yet dramatic. You are a clown. Ronnie didn't know how to pose.
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That was a poor explanation from Rockell....the explanation sucked and the rule sucks...50% of the show being judged on the second day but 7th place and lower can't move up into top six? YET 50% of the judging is done on the second day...If that isn't stupid, then I don't know what is...In addition, 50% of the show is judged in the last 1-2 min of the final posedown but there are no rules for this round....Just kinda walk around and "go to war" posing head to head? Sounds really fair ::)
Oh yeah the "Ya gotta cut it off somewhere" comment? Someone commented best, places 7-10 aka 7th-10th best bodybuilders in the world aren't worth moving up into a possible 6th place...
To put it in better terms, the seventh place winner is not worthy of being compared to the 6th place person on the second day where 50% of the judging takes place in the last 1-2 min....What kind of a fuckin' joke is this in the top show in the sport?
Look for this to be avoided to be talked about in the future...
Bottom line is, with the new judging criteria you should send everyone home who is not in the top 6 after the Friday night pre-judging. There is no reason for them to come back if they can't score anymore. Just have the top 6 come out on Saturday and compare and pose for 10 minutes and call it a night. In essence, that's the scenario Bob and his stooches have created with the new rules.
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LOL. Dorian didn't win the posing round in 1991. In all his Olympia wins Dorian had a very polished routine, smooth yet dramatic. You are a clown. Ronnie didn't know how to pose.
My bad...I was thinking 92. But doesnt change the facts...lets take 92. here is the top 10, tll me Dorian wins the posing round...at BEST...he's 6th in posing, which would have made it that he LOST the show, and possibly been 3rd or 4th.
Exactly why the format was changed.....
1 Dorian Yates
2 Kevin Levrone
3 Lee Labrada
4 Shawn Ray
5 Mohammed Benaziza
6 Vince Taylor
7 Sonny Schmidt
8 Porter Cottrell
9 Ron Love
10 Thierry Pastel
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Bottom line is, with the new judging criteria you should send everyone home who is not in the top 6 after the Friday night pre-judging. There is no reason for them to come back if they can't score anymore. Just have the top 6 come out on Saturday and compare and pose for 10 minutes and call it a night. In essence, that's the scenario Bob and his stooches have created with the new rules.
I dont disagree...the new format is suppossed to include anyone with a mathematical cham=nc of moving up...adjustments will be made, hopefully, the top 10 can be rejudged at night and insuring anyone has a chance to move up/ down. The only thing were trying to create, is a fair and just system for all....thats why nothing is written in stone
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My bad...I was thinking 92. But doesnt change the facts...lets take 92. here is the top 10, tll me Dorian wins the posing round...at BEST...he's 6th in posing, which would have made it that he LOST the show, and possibly been 3rd or 4th.
Exactly why the format was changed.....
1 Dorian Yates
2 Kevin Levrone
3 Lee Labrada
4 Shawn Ray
5 Mohammed Benaziza
6 Vince Taylor
7 Sonny Schmidt
8 Porter Cottrell
9 Ron Love
10 Thierry Pastel
All rounds are physique rounds , they judge the physique in all rounds posing rounds included , Dorian never lost a symmetry round despite the fact he was never the most symmetrical , why? because all rounds are physique rounds
and Dorian wasn't a great poser in the Lee Labrada , Bob Paris , Shawn Ray sense but he most certainly posed to his style of physique and would effectively hit and mandatrories , Ronnie was atrocious , and Dillett was the worse
Dorian would look goofy posing like Ray
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My bad...I was thinking 92. But doesnt change the facts...lets take 92. here is the top 10, tll me Dorian wins the posing round...at BEST...he's 6th in posing, which would have made it that he LOST the show, and possibly been 3rd or 4th.
Exactly why the format was changed.....
1 Dorian Yates
2 Kevin Levrone
3 Lee Labrada
4 Shawn Ray
5 Mohammed Benaziza
6 Vince Taylor
7 Sonny Schmidt
8 Porter Cottrell
9 Ron Love
10 Thierry Pastel
Yeah, let's take 1992. Good choice... seriously, Dorian won the posing round in 1992 hands down. I was actually at that show sitting in that ridiculous Helsinki icering. Dorian's music was very fast, powerful, with some techno tunes and he posed exceptionally well. The music and his moves combined with his extreme conditioning literally sent shivers down your spine. He was able to fully hit and align each pose to the more dramatic tunes of his song. Go back to watching the video and I'm positive you may agree. But then again you're Chick... so may be not. ::)
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Nice to see some debate here.
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All rounds are physique rounds , they judge the physique in all rounds posing rounds included , Dorian never lost a symmetry round despite the fact he was never the most symmetrical , why? because all rounds are physique rounds
and Dorian wasn't a great poser in the Lee Labrada , Bob Paris , Shawn Ray sense but he most certainly posed to his style of physique and would effectively hit and mandatrories , Ronnie was atrocious , and Dillett was the worse
Dorian would look goofy posing like Ray
Nice to see someone who understands how the posing round was judged. BTW, this was the correct way of judging it, every round is a physique round. I know Chick didn't like it being scored, but does it make any sense to judge mandatories in the pre-judging and then do the same thing again the next night? Why not have a 2 minute free posing routine by each competitor for a first look by the judges, then move on to quarter turn and mandatory comparisons?
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I had no issue with the "rounds system" of scoring, but then dont call them what they ARENT...posing round, symmetry round, muscularity round...when in effect, they're ALL muscularity rounds....
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Nice to see someone who understands how the posing round was judged. BTW, this was the correct way of judging it, every round is a physique round. I know Chick didn't like it being scored, but does it make any sense to judge mandatories in the pre-judging and then do the same thing again the next night? Why not have a 2 minute free posing routine by each competitor for a first look by the judges, then move on to quarter turn and mandatory comparisons?
I was just about to write a similar thing.
Right now a guy doesn't get judged at all doing poses that he chooses... imagine how Labrada would have done in this system or Demey who was pretty average in the mandatories but was awesome in his snake type twisting shots.
Why can't the guys do 30 seconds of their own poses when they first come out by themselves at prejudging the way they did it in the 70's?
They still get compared in numerical order before any judges comparisons are done anyway.
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I was just about to write a similar thing.
Right now a guy doesn't get judged at all doing poses that he chooses... imagine how Labrada would have done in this system or Demey who was pretty average in the mandatories but was awesome in his snake type twisting shots.
Why can't the guys do 30 seconds of their own poses when they first come out by themselves at prejudging the way they did it in the 70's?
They still get compared in numerical order before any judges comparisons are done anyway.
Bro...you still dont get it....they NEVER got judged on their posing routine, OR the poses of their choice....EVER. It was a bullshit round...it's a showcase for the audience....a physique competition is still based on comparisons of physiques, straight up.
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I had no issue with the "rounds system" of scoring, but then dont call them what they ARENT...posing round, symmetry round, muscularity round...when in effect, they're ALL muscularity rounds....
I wouldn't go back to the old rounds system. Have individual free posing for an initial look at the competitors, then go right into comparisons. No 50/50 split scoring or separate rounds, just one score. Of course, this would mean the end of the pre-judging/finals format, which is archaic and especially worthless under the current format since the posing round is not judged.
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This is a retarded complaint. All sorts of sports have preliminaries which set a cutoff for the finals. suck it up.
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I wouldn't go back to the old rounds system. Have individual free posing for an initial look at the competitors, then go right into comparisons. No 50/50 split scoring or separate rounds, just one score. Of course, this would mean the end of the pre-judging/finals format, which is archaic and especially worthless under the current format since the posing round is not judged.
We have that now, at every show EXCEPT the Olympia and ASC.....opening round is free posing routine....I believe it should be at EVERY show. We have enough mandatory comparisons.
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Bro...you still dont get it....they NEVER got judged on their posing routine, OR the poses of their choice....EVER. It was a bullshit round...it's a showcase for the audience....a physique competition is still based on comparisons of physiques, straight up.
That's not 100% accurate Chick in 2001 Jay soundly beat Ronnie in the meat & potatoes of the contest but somehow ' lost ' the whole contest when Ronnie won the posing rounds
Same with Kevin in 94 who was ahead of Shawn in the prejudging for second but after the posing rounds Shawn moved ahead of Kevin for second.
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Bro...you still dont get it....they NEVER got judged on their posing routine, OR the poses of their choice....EVER. It was a bullshit round...it's a showcase for the audience....a physique competition is still based on comparisons of physiques, straight up.
Chick you are wrong i've studied scorecards for over 20 years and there are plenty of contests where a guy DID move up strongly in the old 3rd round of free posing.
Demey overtook Labrada in 1988. Munzer jumped up to 2nd at the 1993 Night Of Champions.
The problem is the routines became a joke as people started getting lazy and walked around waving their arms for applause or shaking their asses instead of posing so the judges had no choice but to judge it as a physique round.
I agree it shouldn't be judged but as part of the intros, and therefore the prejudging, they should be able to do some of their own poses to try to create a positive impression on the judges before the mandatories start.
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Also, to say that Dorian's 1992 routine was weak is crazy it was one of the best hardcore routines of all time.
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Also, to say that Dorian's 1992 routine was weak is crazy it was one of the best hardcore routines of all time.
Yes, it was indeed.
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That's not 100% accurate Chick in 2001 Jay soundly beat Ronnie in the meat & potatoes of the contest but somehow ' lost ' the whole contest when Ronnie won the posing rounds
Same with Kevin in 94 who was ahead of Shawn in the prejudging for second but after the posing rounds Shawn moved ahead of Kevin for second.
Yes....but not because of their routines...thats the point.
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Yes, it was indeed.
You know what's funny?
when dorian came onto the scene, he was criticized for being blocky and having a big stomach. by today's standards he is freaking brian buchanan....the level of today's competitors sucks ass.....bunch of soft, bloated dildos.
Some "progress" ::)
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Yes....but not because of their routines...thats the point.
Chick, who ever said the posing round was only supposed to be about who was the best poser?
The whole point of the round was to display your physique in its best light using poses that suit it.
From that the judges then judged the body they saw during that display and if the impression they got was more positive than the one they saw in the prejudging (either via superior posing like Shawn Ray in 1994 or an improvement in condition from the prejudging like Ronnie in 2001) then they scored better.
The way it is now why even learn ANY poses outside of the mandatories?
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Also, to say that Dorian's 1992 routine was weak is crazy it was one of the best hardcore routines of all time.
No...you see, powerful and heroic routines that display a great physique in a powerful, dignified manner obviously mean nothing to someone like Chick. In order to impress Chick, you have to waddle out on a stage like some sort of buffoonish Frankenstein monster. Then you must cup your hand to your hear as to say to the audience, "Why aren't you applauding me more?".. and then you twirl your fist around, walk to one side of the stage and hit a most muscular. Then you repeat this idiotic sequence and walk to the other side of the stage. Remember to cup your hand to your ear repeatedly if you want to impress Chick. Now have some ridiculous Rap music start blaring with lyrics like 'Yo,Yo,Yo and then start wiggling around and "poppin' and lockin'" and gyrating like a retard. In between all this embarrassing nonsense, make sure your bloated belly distends frequently, and hit an occasional lame pose. Forget about the classic routines of Zane, Corney, and Arnold...to impress Chick, you must "Pop and Lock."
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Chick, who ever said the posing round was only supposed to be about who was the best poser?
The whole point of the round was to display your physique in its best light using poses that suit it.
From that the judges then judged the body they saw during that display and if the impression they got was more positive than the one they saw in the prejudging (either via superior posing like Shawn Ray in 1994 or an improvement in condition from the prejudging like Ronnie in 2001) then they scored better.
The way it is now why even learn ANY poses outside of the mandatories?
I understand what you're trying to say, but having a BB out there in their own, is basically useless...BB is all about comparison, as every BB looks great alone. The judges need a better impression while they are next to each other...
BTW...2001 is a poor example, as Jay CLEARLY should have won that show....in that case, the posing round was used to make up a deficeit that should have been insurmountable...
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No...you see, powerful and heroic routines that display a great physique in a powerful, dignified manner obviously mean nothing to someone like Chick. In order to impress Chick, you have to waddle out on a stage like some sort of buffoonish Frankenstein monster. Then you must cup your hand to your hear as to say to the audience, "Why aren't you applauding me more?".. and then you twirl your fist around, walk to one side of the stage and hit a most muscular. Then you repeat this idiotic sequence and walk to the other side of the stage. Remember to cup your hand to your ear repeatedly if you want to impress Chick. Now have some ridiculous Rap music start blaring with lyrics like 'Yo,Yo,Yo and then start wiggling around and "poppin' and lockin'" and gyrating like a retard. In between all this embarrassing nonsense, make sure your bloated belly distends frequently, and hit an occasional lame pose. Forget about the classic routines of Zane, Corney, and Arnold...to impress Chick, you must "Pop and Lock."
Whats funny about your post, is that anyone who knows my style (my posing style when I competed) and the numerous articles I've written.....will tell you that you're 100% in the wrong, and I've often criticized openly, much of what you describe...
Do some homework next time BEFORE posting
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I like the idea of all of the posing and comparison being completed in the prejudging.
It really helps to speed up the night show, which should be used to highlight the the best athletes.
I also think that the length of the routines should be reduced.
If you really want to sit through hours of compulsory poses then go to the prejudging,
I am not a fan of free posing. It takes away from direct comparison.
That is my two cents anyway.
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I understand what you're trying to say, but having a BB out there in their own, is basically useless...BB is all about comparison, as every BB looks great alone. The judges need a better impression while they are next to each other...
BTW...2001 is a poor example, as Jay CLEARLY should have won that show....in that case, the posing round was used to make up a deficeit that should have been insurmountable...
::)
yeah...and now...you give mr o the 1st night and just pick and choose for the other 50% because you really cant tell who wins the pose down. just eliminate the individual fitness round too and let tanji and adela hit their most muscular.
phil was the sharpest and best the 1st with branch 2nd...and jay again had loose skin on his lower back.
anyway...u always right.
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I understand what you're trying to say, but having a BB out there in their own, is basically useless...BB is all about comparison, as every BB looks great alone. The judges need a better impression while they are next to each other...
BTW...2001 is a poor example, as Jay CLEARLY should have won that show....in that case, the posing round was used to make up a deficeit that should have been insurmountable...
You know I agree with you on both counts. but I guess it was supposed to be a chance for the judges to get another look to perhaps see something the may have missed in the prejudging and in a close contest it could determine the final placings.
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You know I agree with you on both counts. but I guess it was supposed to be a chance for the judges to get another look to perhaps see something the may have missed in the prejudging and in a close contest it could determine the final placings.
One nice thing about the current people in charge, is that they listen and are receptive to change...it's an imperfect system, that we continue to tweak and will make adjustments accordingly
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I understand what you're trying to say, but having a BB out there in their own, is basically useless...BB is all about comparison, as every BB looks great alone. The judges need a better impression while they are next to each other...
BTW...2001 is a poor example, as Jay CLEARLY should have won that show....in that case, the posing round was used to make up a deficeit that should have been insurmountable...
Hey I ain't saying it should be worth a huge amount but maybe 20% of the show.
Taking 2009 as an example the judging that year was 1/3rd prejudging, 1/3 posing round, 1/3 posedown/final comparisons.
Looking at Branch and Dexter.
Branch got 16, 16, 14
Dexter got 10, 18, 19
That year the night show was worth 2/3rds and allowed Branch to pass Dexter.
If you crunch the numbers and go back to having prejudging be 50%, posing 25%, posedown 25% as was the old way then Dexter beats Branch 57 to 62.
If you use this years method and drop the posing round then Dexter beats him again.
Now if you judge all 3 but give prejudging 40%, posing 20% and posedown 40% (take the posing score and halve it) then they actually tie at 38 each.
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Hey I ain't saying it should be worth a huge amount but maybe 20% of the show.
Taking 2009 as an example the judging that year was 1/3rd prejudging, 1/3 posing round, 1/3 posedown/final comparisons.
Looking at Branch and Dexter.
Branch got 16, 16, 14
Dexter got 10, 18, 19
That year the night show was worth 2/3rds and allowed Branch to pass Dexter.
If you crunch the numbers and go back to having prejudging be 50%, posing 25%, posedown 25% as was the old way then Dexter beats Branch 57 to 62.
If you use this years method and drop the posing round then Dexter beats him again.
Now if you judge all 3 but give prejudging 40%, posing 20% and posedown 40% (take the posing score and halve it) then they actually tie at 38 each.
It's amazing how the numbers come to be, especially when you use 2 high and 2 low thrown out, 3 high/ low, and 1 high/ low....totally different outcomes and winners in some cases...
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It's amazing how the numbers come to be, especially when you use 2 high and 2 low thrown out, 3 high/ low, and 1 high/ low....totally different outcomes and winners in some cases...
Yes, amazing, keeps me awake for days ::)
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One nice thing about the current people in charge, is that they listen and are receptive to change...it's an imperfect system, that we continue to tweak and will make adjustments accordingly
What an apologist. Perfect pasty and general tool for the Pro League. FFS how long have the IFBB been running bodybuilding shows? The plain, unvarnished truth is they have to get rid of the old system because it cannot be salvaged. The second rate brains behind the scenes are oblivious to what is needed to judge bodybuilding shows properly. Every single year there are controversies and dissatisfaction.
Bob, do you comprehend that the judging process sucks? No amount of tweaking and making adjustments will suffice. But then, I might as well be talking to a wall.
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What an apologist. Perfect pasty and general tool for the Pro League. FFS how long have the IFBB been running bodybuilding shows? The plain, unvarnished truth is they have to get rid of the old system because it cannot be salvaged. The second rate brains behind the scenes are oblivious to what is needed to judge bodybuilding shows properly. Every single year there are controversies and dissatisfaction.
Bob, do you comprehend that the judging process sucks? No amount of tweaking and making adjustments will suffice. But then, I might as well be talking to a wall.
You are a wall, Basile...a thick, hardheaded wall of ignorance.
"Every year there are controversy and dissatisfaction"...LOL....same could be said of the superbowl.
Tell us all how it SHOULD have been judged...let's see if you can get 100% to agree with you
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Bob, Joe is getting very frail so I won't be able to use this much longer.
You want me to fix the mess in the IFBB? Sorry, it has been messed up by knuckleheads(
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BTW...2001 is a poor example, as Jay CLEARLY should have won that show....in that case, the posing round was used to make up a deficeit that should have been insurmountable...
So why did Ronnie win?
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Bob, Joe is getting very frail so I won't be able to use this much longer. :'
You want me to fix the mess in the IFBB? Well go piss up a rope.(
Trust me IMBasile...no one's looking for YOU to fix anything....but for once, try and back up what you say....were all waiting for how it SHOULD have been placed
Anytime now
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So why did Ronnie win?
Beats me....
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So why did Ronnie win?
Because he was better.
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I was hoping one of the competitors in the Olympia would have done a couple of poses for Bob there at the MC stand. That would have been amusing. Just wondering how the pro athletes meeting went, Bob, and how many attended. Now that Milos is in jail it looks like you have that position for life. Congratulations.
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Because he was better.
He really wasn't Jay outclassed him and even Ronnie thought he was second.
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He really wasn't Jay outclassed him and even Ronnie thought he was second.
Jay beats him with ab thighs, that's it.
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I don't like the fact that we have a 1.5 hour pre-judging comparing everyone thoroughly, but it only counts for 50% of the score. The contest should be over after pre-judging. Other than greed (ticket sales), is there any good reason to hold a bodybuilding contest over a two day period? Like you said Bob, bodybuilding's all about mandatory poses and comparisons, which is done in pre-judging. It could all be done on Saturday night. Start with posing routines, which is entertainment for the fans and will give the judges a good first look. Then move on to comparisons and crown a champion.
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I don't like the fact that we have a 1.5 hour pre-judging comparing everyone thoroughly, but it only counts for 50% of the score. The contest should be over after pre-judging. Other than greed (ticket sales), is there any good reason to hold a bodybuilding contest over a two day period? Like you said Bob, bodybuilding's all about mandatory poses and comparisons, which is done in pre-judging. It could all be done on Saturday night. Start with posing routines, which is entertainment for the fans and will give the judges a good first look. Then move on to comparisons and crown a champion.
Ideal but will never happen.
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Ideal but will never happen.
I realize it won't happen, but it would be an exciting evening. Maybe something to consider for the circuit shows, where pre-judging is poorly attended.
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I don't like the fact that we have a 1.5 hour pre-judging comparing everyone thoroughly, but it only counts for 50% of the score. The contest should be over after pre-judging. Other than greed (ticket sales), is there any good reason to hold a bodybuilding contest over a two day period? Like you said Bob, bodybuilding's all about mandatory poses and comparisons, which is done in pre-judging. It could all be done on Saturday night. Start with posing routines, which is entertainment for the fans and will give the judges a good first look. Then move on to comparisons and crown a champion.
There you go. Too simple for Bob to comprehend. I think they split the judging and finals to get a bigger crowd on Friday. If they had the women on Friday how many would come? What a show it would be if it were all on the same day. Having the judging during the day and the finals at night is a formula used most of the time. What you propose would make a great event. The posedown would occur while the scores are being tallied so don't count. No rounds, just one place for each competitor at the end of the process.
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Whats funny about your post, is that anyone who knows my style (my posing style when I competed) and the numerous articles I've written.....will tell you that you're 100% in the wrong, and I've often criticized openly, much of what you describe...
Do some homework next time BEFORE posting
a #2 pencil that people do their homework with is more well known than you
its amazing how much grief u caused the olympia this year-espeically at the last few mins of the show
your magicians cape u wore this year truly was magical-your spell of turning anything to shit u touch was quite powerful that night
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Do I have to say it again? Use 15 qualified and unbiased experienced judges and don't discard any scores. Publish the complete scores after the contest to keep those judges honest and responsible.
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I was hoping one of the competitors in the Olympia would have done a couple of poses for Bob there at the MC stand. That would have been amusing. Just wondering how the pro athletes meeting went, Bob, and how many attended. Now that Milos is in jail it looks like you have that position for life. Congratulations.
STILL waiting Basile....
Looking for the 100% agreed on final placings that you claim to know....
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Do I have to say it again? Use 15 qualified and unbiased experienced judges and don't discard any scores. Publish the complete scores after the contest to keep those judges honest and responsible.
This coming from someone who picked out the judges and the trophy for his "win" at the 1970 Mr Canada...... ::)
BTW, don't forget Basile to put this up on your door for Halloween...... ;D
(http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/pumpkin-offender.jpg)
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There you go. Too simple for Bob to comprehend. I think they split the judging and finals to get a bigger crowd on Friday. If they had the women on Friday how many would come? What a show it would be if it were all on the same day. Having the judging during the day and the finals at night is a formula used most of the time. What you propose would make a great event. The posedown would occur while the scores are being tallied so don't count. No rounds, just one place for each competitor at the end of the process.
The problem you have Vince is they need to eliminate some people as they go. 22 guys in a posedown?
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The posedown is a non event most years. If you have a close contest and lots of people yelling out then it can be a spectacle. There is no way to judge that with everyone doing different things. This was just a way to get 'errant' judges in line.
Bob is a bona fide knucklehead. There is no list that everyone agrees with. Consensus may or may not support the best bodybuilder.
I honestly am ashamed of the lack of intelligence and integrity of people involved in running these events. It obviously is a terminal disease because they have virtually killed the sport.
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I agree the "posedown" can't be judged and I'm sure they don't pay much attention then since the guys move around and even jump off the stage sometimes.
A proper "posedown" is like in pumping iron where they have to stay in their spot and trade their best shots. That you can judge.
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First, I dont make any decision single handed...anything I submit has to be approved by the IFBB Pro League and voted on.
Second, scoring the actual posing round was dropped...because its impossible to score fairly. Dorian and Ronniw won posing round after posing round while arguably being the worst posers on the stage.
That said, the POSING ROUND and POSEDOWN arent the big deal...the final round of COMPARISONS are. THAT'S where the debate is, and whether it should be expanded....I personally believe ( and brought up at the time it was voted on) that anyone with a mathematical chance of moving up should be included....or just make it top 15, or whatever. I dont like closing the door on judging at any point. Of course you have to draw the line somewhere.....My call would be, once you make top 15,and perform a routine, then you are included in the final judging.
Understand what you're talking about before making comments, or putting words in my mouth.
Did an Awesome job Bob at the Olympia....
For the Judgeing, i actually agree with most the placings. Sure some could be moved up a few .....Ronnie Rockel....but overall, I thought it was a well judged Olympia.
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The posedown is a non event most years. If you have a close contest and lots of people yelling out then it can be a spectacle. There is no way to judge that with everyone doing different things. This was just a way to get 'errant' judges in line.
Bob is a bona fide knucklehead. There is no list that everyone agrees with. Consensus may or may not support the best bodybuilder.
I honestly am ashamed of the lack of intelligence and integrity of people involved in running these events. It obviously is a terminal disease because they have virtually killed the sport.
Killed the sport to whom, Basile? The 9,000 people in attendance? The thousands that attended the Meet the Olympians, press conference sold out....seminar packed to the back of the room? Does the nearly 1M in prize money look like were "killing it"?
You're a clueless moron, basile
You want to be ashamed, be ashamed that the only show you ever won, you hand picked the judges....should tell you something
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Killed the sport to whom, Basile? The 9,000 people in attendance? The thousands that attended the Meet the Olympians, press conference sold out....seminar packed to the back of the room? Does the nearly 1M in prize money look like were "killing it"?
You're a clueless moron, basile
You want to be ashamed, be ashamed that the only show you ever won, you hand picked the judges....should tell you something
;D Awesome....
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You want to be ashamed, be ashamed that the only show you ever won, you hand picked the judges....should tell you something
Come on now, really?
Come on!
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Killed the sport to whom, Basile? The 9,000 people in attendance? The thousands that attended the Meet the Olympians, press conference sold out....seminar packed to the back of the room? Does the nearly 1M in prize money look like were "killing it"?
You're a clueless moron, basile
You want to be ashamed, be ashamed that the only show you ever won, you hand picked the judges....should tell you something
sorry chick...they have the curtains up and dont even use all the space at the expo. it gives off a nice jam-pack illusion.
arnold wants a 1M 1st place prize at the O one day which makes no since...because prize money distribution is f##ked up all ready.
only 202 champ only gets paid.
200k to winner with 10th getting only 14k
ms O should get 50k. iris is the best there is, could place top 5 in 202
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Come on now, really?
Come on!
Sadly, this is not a made up story... he redily admits it.
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sorry chick...they have the curtains up and dont even use all the space at the expo. it gives off a nice jam-pack illusion.
arnold wants a 1M 1st place prize at the O one day which makes no since...because prize money distribution is f##ked up all ready.
only 202 champ only gets paid.
200k to winner with 10th getting only 14k
ms O should get 50k. iris is the best there is, could place top 5 in 202
Every bit of space is used....the curtained areas to the sides are a fire code, as we have to have X amount of clearing space should there be a fire...were not looking for illusion, it was jammed packed because there were a shitload of people there.
FBB loses money...why would we add to the pot??
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Every bit of space is used....the curtained areas to the sides are a fire code, as we have to have X amount of clearing space should there be a fire...were not looking for illusion, it was jammed packed because there were a shitload of people there.
FBB loses money...why would we add to the pot??
Does fitness, figure, & bikini lose money too? Because it seems like women's bodybuilding gets the loudest applause at the expo.
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Does fitness, figure, & bikini lose money too? Because it seems like women's bodybuilding gets the loudest applause at the expo.
Applause doesnt equal profits...
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Applause doesnt equal profits...
I realize the women don't generate profit, thus the need to hold the men's pre-judging Friday night to pick up ticket sales. But it's not just women's bodybuilding; fitness, figure, & bikini by themselves would not generate profit either.
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I realize the women don't generate profit, thus the need to hold the men's pre-judging Friday night to pick up ticket sales. But it's not just women's bodybuilding; fitness, figure, & bikini by themselves would not generate profit either.
Disagree, as all three of those generate more money than FBB...especially at the local/ regional level...it's not even debatable
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Applause doesnt equal profits...
I just want to know what kind of cycle you run these days? Low 500mg testo enan a week for maintenance?
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Disagree, as all three of those generate more money than FBB...especially at the local/ regional level...it's not even debatable
At the professional level, I can't see a women's only show being profitable. Isn't it true that if the women held their Olympia separate from the men, they wold lose money, even with the addition of fitness, figure & bikini?
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Sadly, this is not a made up story... he redily admits it.
Too bad court doesn't work that way.
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Killed the sport to whom, Basile? The 9,000 people in attendance? The thousands that attended the Meet the Olympians, press conference sold out....seminar packed to the back of the room? Does the nearly 1M in prize money look like were "killing it"?
You're a clueless moron, basile
You want to be ashamed, be ashamed that the only show you ever won, you hand picked the judges....should tell you something
...and you have the brains of a nincompoop like Goodrum. Always bullshitting all day long.
Look, Bob, the sport of bodybuilding died when anabolic steroids became illegal and you don't test for them. What a sordid organization the Pro League is. Stand over men and stooges working hand in hand.
While I admire the physiques of many of the top pros I certainly don't envy what they have to do to acquire and keep that amount of muscle. You think it is okay because you participated and feel bodybuilders make a choice. What a dork you are.
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At the professional level, I can't see a women's only show being profitable. Isn't it true that if the women held their Olympia separate from the men, they wold lose money, even with the addition of fitness, figure & bikini?
Maybe, maybe not...NPC shows which are made up of them same, ( 80/20) do quite well
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...and you have the brains of a nincompoop like Goodrum. Always bullshitting all day long.
Look, Bob, the sport of bodybuilding died when anabolic steroids became illegal and you don't test for them. What a sordid organization the Pro League is. Stand over men and stooges working hand in hand.
While I admire the physiques of many of the top pros I certainly don't envy what they have to do to acquire and keep that amount of muscle. You think it is okay because you participated and feel bodybuilders make a choice. What a dork you are.
None of the nonsense addresses what you quoted, basile...try again. Do you need me to dumb it down for you?
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...and you have the brains of a nincompoop like Goodrum. Always bullshitting all day long.
Look, Bob, the sport of bodybuilding died when anabolic steroids became illegal and you don't test for them. What a sordid organization the Pro League is. Stand over men and stooges working hand in hand.
While I admire the physiques of many of the top pros I certainly don't envy what they have to do to acquire and keep that amount of muscle. You think it is okay because you participated and feel bodybuilders make a choice. What a dork you are.
Havent hear that in a while. :D
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sorry chick...they have the curtains up and dont even use all the space at the expo. it gives off a nice jam-pack illusion.
arnold wants a 1M 1st place prize at the O one day which makes no since...because prize money distribution is f##ked up all ready.
only 202 champ only gets paid.
200k to winner with 10th getting only 14k
ms O should get 50k. iris is the best there is, could place top 5 in 202
Do you know how much a competitor would kill themselves for the S1 million top place?
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Bloody hell Vince nobody is holding a gun to these athletes heads.
The IFBB sure ain't perfect but they aren't any worse than any other sports organization I've seen.
We know they have to have a 2 day show to make the money so the question is what is the best way to judge that.
From PBW it sounds like the two Jim's want something judged from the free posing again.
Not judging anything from it may turn it into a farce pretty quickly.
Maybe they should say "okay, we will judge the free posing as a physique round not as a best poser/gets the most applause because you shake your ass round and the requirement is that you have to perform at least 10 muscle display poses than you hold for at least 2 seconds each (loosely enforced but the point is it has to involve some posing again not just dancing around the entire time or spinning on your head but you can do that in between the 10 required poses of your choice)."
So that brings them back to 3 rounds: Pre judging, Free Posing, Posedown/Final Comparisons.
The question then becomes how much should each round be worth?
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At the professional level, I can't see a women's only show being profitable. Isn't it true that if the women held their Olympia separate from the men, they wold lose money, even with the addition of fitness, figure & bikini?
Probably. But, it wasn't always like that. The Ms. Olympia used to be held by itself, months before or after the Mr. Olympia.
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Stop apologizing for the Pro League and IFBB. They appoint a lifetime pro athletes rep for %$#% sake. That is the kind of nonsense that Chick likes. Give him a new monkey suit and let him MC the shows as well. Clearly, no sensible person would offer to do that job! No competing bodybuilder would or should do that job.
The Olympia should be run for what is best for the bodybuilders. If having the show over two days spoils the judging process then don't have it over two days. That show and event should be able to make a profit holding the Olympia on the Saturday night. There is absolutely no way that any levity can be tolerated re the judging process. Once the judges mingle the independence is over and the contest is contaminated. Haven't you people judged contests? I have had to run the judging at contests in an organization we had in Australia after the Mr Olympia fiasco in 1980. Believe me, judges will look at the score sheets of other judges. So they most certainly will discuss the competitors if you let them mingle. Also, there should be NO opportunity for head judges and other officials to chat to the judges if they still have to rejudge the competition. Errant judges can be pointed in the right direction. They should publish detailed results and complete judging sheets. Nothing less is acceptable. Contests must be fair and transparent.
The Pro League/IFBB could care less about the bodybuilders. If they did then rigid and valid testing for banned substances would be rigourously done at the contest and off season. Look at the calibre of officials in that organization. Look at how Bob C behaves on this forum. The guy is a thug and a stooge all in one! It would be funny but these people are ruining the sport not improving it.
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Stop apologizing for the Pro League and IFBB. They appoint a lifetime pro athletes rep for %$#% sake. That is the kind of nonsense that Chick likes. Give him a new monkey suit and let him MC the shows as well. Clearly, no sensible person would offer to do that job! No competing bodybuilder would or should do that job.
The Olympia should be run for what is best for the bodybuilders. If having the show over two days spoils the judging process then don't have it over two days. That show and event should be able to make a profit holding the Olympia on the Saturday night. There is absolutely no way that any levity can be tolerated re the judging process. Once the judges mingle the independence is over and the contest is contaminated. Haven't you people judged contests? I have had to run the judging at contests in an organization we had in Australia after the Mr Olympia fiasco in 1980. Believe me, judges will look at the score sheets of other judges. So they most certainly will discuss the competitors if you let them mingle. Also, there should be NO opportunity for head judges and other officials to chat to the judges if they still have to rejudge the competition. Errant judges can be pointed in the right direction. They should publish detailed results and complete judging sheets. Nothing less is acceptable. Contests must be fair and transparent.
The Pro League/IFBB could care less about the bodybuilders. If they did then rigid and valid testing for banned substances would be rigourously done at the contest and off season. Look at the calibre of officials in that organization. Look at how Bob C behaves on this forum. The guy is a thug and a stooge all in one! It would be funny but these people are ruining the sport not improving it.
Seriously Basile...you're an ignorant fool.
And unable to answer the easiest of questions, as usual...
Still lloking for ypou to explain how Pro BB is in the toilet, when the numbers I posted point to the complete opposite
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Probably. But, it wasn't always like that. The Ms. Olympia used to be held by itself, months before or after the Mr. Olympia.
It was on it's deathbed before it was combined with the Mr. Olympia. Remember in '99 when it was cancelled, then rescheduled. My point is that FBB is seen as a losing venture, yet fitness, figure, & bikini (at the professional level) don't make money either.
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Stop apologizing for the Pro League and IFBB. They appoint a lifetime pro athletes rep for %$#% sake. That is the kind of nonsense that Chick likes. Give him a new monkey suit and let him MC the shows as well. Clearly, no sensible person would offer to do that job! No competing bodybuilder would or should do that job.
The Olympia should be run for what is best for the bodybuilders. If having the show over two days spoils the judging process then don't have it over two days. That show and event should be able to make a profit holding the Olympia on the Saturday night. There is absolutely no way that any levity can be tolerated re the judging process. Once the judges mingle the independence is over and the contest is contaminated. Haven't you people judged contests? I have had to run the judging at contests in an organization we had in Australia after the Mr Olympia fiasco in 1980. Believe me, judges will look at the score sheets of other judges. So they most certainly will discuss the competitors if you let them mingle. Also, there should be NO opportunity for head judges and other officials to chat to the judges if they still have to rejudge the competition. Errant judges can be pointed in the right direction. They should publish detailed results and complete judging sheets. Nothing less is acceptable. Contests must be fair and transparent.
The Pro League/IFBB could care less about the bodybuilders. If they did then rigid and valid testing for banned substances would be rigourously done at the contest and off season. Look at the calibre of officials in that organization. Look at how Bob C behaves on this forum. The guy is a thug and a stooge all in one! It would be funny but these people are ruining the sport not improving it.
I have judged contests Vince... stop complaining and throw out some decent ideas.
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Bob, Bob, Bob, shake your sorry head and clear your brain. Those numbers don't impress me. Look at the damage being done to all those professional bodybuilders who have to make that awful choice to gear up to be on a level playing field. That is a price no one should have to pay. Who here would encourage sons, relatives or friends to become a professional bodybuilder? It is a sad and sorry profession if you can call it that. Bodybuilding isn't as popular as it was decades ago. I recall when the Olympia was broadcast on sports TV. Those days are long gone. Even kids in the street have heard about the steroids the musclemen take. The sport is ruined and doomed with dunces and stooges running it. I don't expect you to comprehend this because you were hand picked because of your meager intellect. They recruit people who follow orders. What a sorry joke the Pro League is. Jim Manion has done a lot of damage. We can't blame Ben because he is no longer with us.
Well might you try to ridicule and silence me but I am made of sterner stuff. The drugs, Bob, are what has ruined this sport. No, it is the toleration of those substances that has ruined the sport.
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Bob, Bob, Bob, shake your sorry head and clear your brain. Those numbers don't impress me.
They should...Jay/ Phil/ Branch/ etc each made more at the Meet the Olympians, than you did in the last 6 months...
Look at the damage being done to all those professional bodybuilders who have to make that awful choice to gear up to be on a level playing field. That is a price no one should have to pay.
No one HAS to pay it, its a choice...just like every other athlete makes
Who here would encourage sons, relatives or friends to become a professional bodybuilder? It is a sad and sorry profession if you can call it that. Bodybuilding isn't as popular as it was decades ago. I recall when the Olympia was broadcast on sports TV. Those days are long gone.
Numbers dictate that you're wrong...just because it was broadcast a few times doesnt mean is was "more popular"....It was something new they were seeing if it had any economic viability...it didnt. There also werent Expos with thousands of fans attending "back in the day".
Even kids in the street have heard about the steroids the musclemen take. The sport is ruined and doomed with dunces and stooges running it.
Yeah, they probaby heard it inbtween breaking stories of The Baseball congressional steroid hearings and the football players getting suspended for PED use..
I don't expect you to comprehend this because you were hand picked because of your meager intellect. They recruit people who follow orders. What a sorry joke the Pro League is. Jim Manion has done a lot of damage. We can't blame Ben because he is no longer with us.
Jim Manion has put more people in a position to make a living from the sport than any other single person in this industry...without question.
Well might you try to ridicule and silence me but I am made of sterner stuff. The drugs, Bob, are what has ruined this sport. No, it is the toleration of those substances that has ruined the sport.
No one cares to silence you , Basile...every time you open your mouth, it only makes people more aware of how retarded you are, but it's good for amusment...
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Chick, I have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion, but I did wanna tell you how gorgeous you looked at the Olympia (total homo).
Brutal man crushing.......true story.
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Granted, the way that Vince and Bob are at each other's throats all the time clouds the argument, but that doesn't mean that the points that, in this case, Vince raises are any less legitimate.
Bob, I know you've taken the time to at least attempt to address some of the issues I've brought up and so for that, thanks. Nonetheless, not everything that is raised by others need to be considered an attack on you personally (and even when it is, there are better ways I feel, of handling them, especially considering the position that you hold politically within the industry).
As for the judging issues, well, I think it is plain to see that there is some work to be done in improving the entire process. Perhaps the IFBB should try out (if it already doesn't) its new rules ideas on the smaller shows to see the practical results.
In anycase, there are some decent ideas and supporting concepts amongst many of the attacks and revenge attacks that usually passes for 'discussion' on this board. Hopefully they can be picked up and trialled before being dismissed.
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Granted, the way that Vince and Bob are at each other's throats all the time clouds the argument, but that doesn't mean that the points that, in this case, Vince raises are any less legitimate.
Bob, I know you've taken the time to at least attempt to address some of the issues I've brought up and so for that, thanks. Nonetheless, not everything that is raised by others need to be considered an attack on you personally (and even when it is, there are better ways I feel, of handling them, especially considering the position that you hold politically within the industry).
As for the judging issues, well, I think it is plain to see that there is some work to be done in improving the entire process. Perhaps the IFBB should try out (if it already doesn't) its new rules ideas on the smaller shows to see the practical results.
In anycase, there are some decent ideas and supporting concepts amongst many of the attacks and revenge attacks that usually passes for 'discussion' on this board. Hopefully they can be picked up and trialled before being dismissed.
Unfortunately, Basile has no ammunition to fight with, as he is about as out of the loop as one can be...as evidenced by his ridiculous answers ( or non answers)
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Issues of accountability, transparency and legitimacy are always their own ammunition.
I'd forget about the personal snipes and counter-snipes. The issues raised are legitimate ones and it doesn't take someone 'in' the loop to be able to raise them (nor to discuss them)
In anycase, I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand but I thought that what they did with the honouring of the Olympia winners of the past was a very good thing.
I think that the sport - as a sport - needs more of that kind of thing. There ought to be more emphasis on it.
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Issues of accountability, transparency and legitimacy are always their own ammunition.
I'd forget about the personal snipes and counter-snipes. The issues raised are legitimate ones and it doesn't take someone 'in' the loop to be able to raise them (nor to discuss them)
In anycase, I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand but I thought that what they did with the honouring of the Olympia winners of the past was a very good thing.
I think that the sport - as a sport - needs more of that kind of thing. There ought to be more emphasis on it.
What issues raised are you referring to?
It takes someone in the loop to be able to comprehend the answers given...oitherwise, it's as easy as pie to simply dismiss them and put no merit into the answers given. As Basile has shown numerous times, he's unable to have a simple debate, or to give any type of subjective answer, when he's had nothing to do with the bodybuilding scene since the Ford Administration...
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What issues raised are you referring to?
It takes someone in the loop to be able to comprehend the answers given...oitherwise, it's as easy as pie to simply dismiss them and put no merit into the answers given. As Basile has shown numerous times, he's unable to have a simple debate, or to give any type of subjective answer, when he's had nothing to do with the bodybuilding scene since the Ford Administration...
a box of fruit loops is more well known than u bobby boy
do us all a favor and stop messing up the ifbb w/ your rediculous ideas and stay off the olympia stage next year-let jerome ferguson or randy orton or john cena host
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a box of fruit loops is more well known than u bobby boy
do us all a favor and stop messing up the ifbb w/ your rediculous ideas and stay off the olympia stage next year-let jerome ferguson or randy orton or john cena host
Uhhhh....yeah.....learn to spell ridiculous, one would think you would be familiar
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a box of fruit loops is more well known than u bobby boy
do us all a favor and stop messing up the ifbb w/ your rediculous ideas and stay off the olympia stage next year-let jerome ferguson or randy orton or john cena host
Bob was terrible on stage, all his jokes fell flat and lets not even mention Bob's Xenophobia against German speaking people at the athletes meeting, to make Ronnie look foolish because of his broken english was about as low a move as you can pull off.
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Bob was terrible on stage, all his jokes fell flat and lets not even mention Bob's Xenophobia against German speaking people at the athletes meeting, to make Ronnie look foolish because of his broken english was about as low a move as you can pull off.
Were you and NW seperated at birth?
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Uhhhh....yeah.....learn to spell ridiculous, one would think you would be familiar
the sure sign of a broken man is when they resort to being the spelling police
i would imagine u feel threatened that they could take your mc gig
i think i will email the ifbb and let them know my suggestion
Bob was terrible on stage, all his jokes fell flat and lets not even mention Bob's Xenophobia against German speaking people at the athletes meeting, to make Ronnie look foolish because of his broken english was about as low a move as you can pull off.
x2
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What issues raised are you referring to?
Accountability, transparency and legitimacy.
The way the show is set up and progresses really influences how all three issues are seen. I wonder if conspiracy theories are as strong in other sports as they are in bodybuilding. In anycase, the thing is, even if there is absolutely no truth to the rumours of conspiracies and biases etc, the way the event is set up makes it hard to believe otherwise.
Basically, there are many ways that the whole thing could be improved and whatever beef you and anyone else has with Vince (and vice versa), is ultimately immaterial next to the issues raised.
That's basically what I mean.
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Accountability, transparency and legitimacy.
The way the show is set up and progresses really influences how all three issues are seen. I wonder if conspiracy theories are as strong in other sports as they are in bodybuilding. In anycase, the thing is, even if there is absolutely no truth to the rumours of conspiracies and biases etc, the way the event is set up makes it hard to believe otherwise.
Basically, there are many ways that the whole thing could be improved and whatever beef you and anyone else has with Vince (and vice versa), is ultimately immaterial next to the issues raised.
That's basically what I mean.
First, these issues are being raised by Basile, who hand picked his own judges in the only show he won...lets consider the source.
I've never stated that there were no improvements to be made, as I have directly made many changes to the entire system over the last 5 years...
Of course there will always be conspiracy theories out there, the sport is judged and based on opinion. Other sports which have similiar cfriteria also get their fair share, i.e.- gymnastics, ice skating, diving, etc....hell, even football/ baseball get their share of conspiricy accusations thrown their way
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Bob, did you apologise to Ronnie Rockel yet?
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Bob, did you apologise to Ronnie Rockel yet?
For what?
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For what?
Openly mocking him for being German and not speaking or understanding english to your standards.
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Openly mocking him for being German and not speaking or understanding english to your standards.
Not sure what show you were watching....may want to actually watch the 2010 press conference
scram, loser
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First, these issues are being raised by Basile, who hand picked his own judges in the only show he won...lets consider the source.
I've never stated that there were no improvements to be made, as I have directly made many changes to the entire system over the last 5 years...
Of course there will always be conspiracy theories out there, the sport is judged and based on opinion. Other sports which have similiar cfriteria also get their fair share, i.e.- gymnastics, ice skating, diving, etc....hell, even football/ baseball get their share of conspiricy accusations thrown their way
In that case, Vince should know first hand the negatives involved. As they say, it takes a thief to catch a thief. ;D
Seriously though, I highly doubt that Vince is the only person who feels these issues are important. Actually, it's a no brainer that in a subjective sport like bodybuilding, every care ought to be taken to minimise, at the very least, the appearance of bias etc.
The problem with bodybuilding that it is such an alpha-male activity and is so easily open to ridicule. I think that in order to make the sport more professional (and dare I say, even a little dignifed), ways need to be found that do not let that whole alpha-male sydnrome to get out of hand. At the moment, I personally think it is a bit out of hand. At least, that is my take on it.
For whatever it's worth.
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In that case, Vince should know first hand the negatives involved. As they say, it takes a thief to catch a thief. ;D
Seriously though, I highly doubt that Vince is the only person who feels these issues are important. Actually, it's a no brainer that in a subjective sport like bodybuilding, every care ought to be taken to minimise, at the very least, the appearance of bias etc.
The problem with bodybuilding that it is such an alpha-male activity and is so easily open to ridicule. I think that in order to make the sport more professional (and dare I say, even a little dignifed), ways need to be found that do not let that whole alpha-male sydnrome to get out of hand. At the moment, I personally think it is a bit out of hand. At least, that is my take on it.
For whatever it's worth.
Please explain your "take" in detail...love to hear it
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Bob, Dirty Tricks, Chick is a simpleton. His mission on Getbig is to dismiss all dissenting comments about how bodybuilding is being run in the IFBB.
No one here has to present anything at all to this stooge and standover man. Look at how he behaves on this forum. Yep, they got the right stooge and patsy for the job.
Bob, do you comprehend what is being said here? Something is wrong with the IFBB judging process. Something is very wrong with the lack of testing for banned substances. So don't try to shift the blame to outspoken critics who want to see a better sport. It is not my fault that you, Ben and Manion stuffed up the sport.