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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on November 25, 2010, 12:18:21 PM
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:)
I challenge anyone to argue that...
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We already knew this. 8) Why are you stating the obvious?? ??? ???
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We already knew this. 8) Why are you stating the obvious?? ??? ???
Glad you're on board...I wanna hear the naysayers that hate Brady....
I did a 3 team parley today, Pats -7, Saints 3.5 and Bengals +10...
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Brady is clearly better than Manning, and has been for a while.
But he's not better than Montana.
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Brady is clearly better than Manning, and has been for a while.
But he's not better than Montana.
Yes he is and by the end of it will be very clear...Why do you believe Montana is better? Brady does everything better.
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I am not a naysayer, but we have to see how both Manning and Brady's career end...Brady will have more Superbowl rings at the end of his career, but I don't know which QB's will have better stats
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Yes he is and by the end of it will be very clear...Why do you believe Montana is better? Brady does everything better.
Montana did everything Brady does now, but he did it when defenses were actually allowed to play defense.
Back in the 80s you could practically tackle wide receivers and actually hit the quarterback.
Plus, Montana never lost a Super Bowl.
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;) Da man.
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Montana did everything Brady does now, but he did it when defenses were actually allowed to play defense.
Back in the 80s you could practically tackle wide receivers and actually hit the quarterback.
Plus, Montana never lost a Super Bowl.
Football is much more complicated and competitive now than it was during Montana's Era.
Through their first eight seasons, Brady had 3 Superbowl wins, Montana 2. Brady had the 50 TD year with Moss, Montana never had more than 31 with Rice. (although you could argue it was a passing league back then)
It will be a better argument when his career is over but he is on pace to crush alot of records and I have no doubt he'll win at least 1 or 2 more Superbowls...
Montana may have never lost but Brady will go to more than Montana has...
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Passing-
Brady-11 years
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2010 215 329 2362 65.4 7.18 65 19 4 14 100.6
Projected 344 526 3779 65.4 7.18 65 30 6 22 100.6
Career 2887 4547 33206 63.5 7.30 91 244 103 233 93.9
Manning-13 years
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2010 286 438 3059 65.3 6.98 73 20 7 12 94.2
Projected 458 701 4894 65.3 6.98 73 32 11 19 94.2
Career 4518 6969 53187 64.8 7.63 86 386 188 227 95.1
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Passing-
Brady-11 years
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2010 215 329 2362 65.4 7.18 65 19 4 14 100.6
Projected 344 526 3779 65.4 7.18 65 30 6 22 100.6
Career 2887 4547 33206 63.5 7.30 91 244 103 233 93.9
Manning-13 years
SPLIT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2010 286 438 3059 65.3 6.98 73 20 7 12 94.2
Projected 458 701 4894 65.3 6.98 73 32 11 19 94.2
Career 4518 6969 53187 64.8 7.63 86 386 188 227 95.1
Ok Mr. Realist why don't you pull up some stats that are of significance, i.e. Playoff record...and Superbowl wins...
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Ok Mr. Realist why don't you pull up some stats that are of significance, i.e. Playoff record...and Superbowl wins...
Wiggs just putting down the facts...I have no doubt Brady will end his career with more superbowl rings...But I don't know if he will surpass Manning in all stats
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Wiggs just putting down the facts...I have no doubt Brady will end his career with more superbowl rings...But I don't know if he will surpass Manning in all stats
I'll tell you now he will not surpass Manning in stats... but look at Dan Marino and his stats then look at Joe Montana...There's no argument there who is better even though Marino destroys him number wise...Brady will have a similar result.
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(http://i1.tinypic.com/85wm41y.jpg)
Conversation over. 8)
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I'll tell you now he will not surpass Manning in stats... but look at Dan Marino and his stats then look at Joe Montana...There's no argument there who is better even though Marino destroys him number wise...Brady will have a similar result.
The only thing I could argue about Brady v. Manning is that Manning pulls the most out of non-star receivers...In that arguement I could include Brees...Those guys spread the ball like butter
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Several quarterbacks are going to finish with better career stats than Montana. But Joe was clutch when it mattered most.
If I had to choose one qb to win a big game, I'm going with Joe.
•Holds six Super Bowl passing records:
1.Highest career passer rating: 127.8
2.Most career passes completed: 83
3.Most consecutive completions: 13
4.Most career passing yards: 1,142
5.Most passing yards in one Super Bowl: 357
6.Most career touchdown passes: 11
•Holds four Playoff passing records:
1.Most career passes attempted: 734
2.Most career passes completed: 460
3.Most career passing yards: 5,772
4.Most career touchdown passes: 45
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Several quarterbacks are going to finish with better career stats than Montana. But Joe was clutch when it mattered most.
If I had to choose one qb to win a big game, I'm going with Joe.
•Holds six Super Bowl passing records:
1.Highest career passer rating: 127.8
2.Most career passes completed: 83
3.Most consecutive completions: 13
4.Most career passing yards: 1,142
5.Most passing yards in one Super Bowl: 357
6.Most career touchdown passes: 11
•Holds four Playoff passing records:
1.Most career passes attempted: 734
2.Most career passes completed: 460
3.Most career passing yards: 5,772
4.Most career touchdown passes: 45
If you pitted a prime Montana against a prime Brady(without clutch kicker) Joe would take it hands down...
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Brady is clearly better than Manning, and has been for a while.
But he's not better than Montana.
Yet ;)
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This is self evident.
Of course he is better than manning
hell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner) was beter than manning ever was or will be
the colts won 1 sueprbnowl on a 80 yard pass interception bullshit call in last 2min or pats would ahve 4 and they should have 5 after the giants scam where no holding caleld on giants whole 2nd half
laoda shit
for all time I would have to put joe montana in there with tom
I am not a terry bradshaw or marino beleiver
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Hard to argue against winning super bowls equaling greatness.
But, good stats - good quaterback. Superbowl win - good team
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I wouldn't even put Brady in my top 15. He's been the beneficiary of stellar defenses, and outstanding offensive lines, brilliant coaching (cheating - busted for spying in 2001 and 2007.... and we are supposed to just believe that everything in between was "clean"? LOL), and outstanding front office personnel management. Anytime someone talks of his "picking apart a defense".... notice how he has about 8-15 seconds to throw. Any QB in the league would've been just as successful over the past decade. Not impressed. Guys like Manning, Montana, Warner, Rothlesburger, Young, Aikmen, etc... could pick apart a defense with 300 lb guys hanging off their other arm.
Even if you don't buy that spygate is partly responsible for their success, at the very minimum, the dynasty should've never been born, as they clearly didn't "win" SB36 fair and square. 150 yards in uncalled penalties, I guarantee result in more than a 3 point swing...
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/bernie-kukar-changing-the-outcome-of-superbowl-xxxvi/495054251
Brady = the most overrated QB in NFL history, and a punk ass cry baby on top of that. (his sideline "intensity"? :rollseyes:)
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I wouldn't even put Brady in my top 15. He's been the beneficiary of stellar defenses, and outstanding offensive lines, brilliant coaching (cheating - busted for spying in 2001 and 2007.... and we are supposed to just believe that everything in between was "clean"? LOL), and outstanding front office personnel management. Anytime someone talks of his "picking apart a defense".... notice how he has about 8-15 seconds to throw. Any QB in the league would've been just as successful over the past decade. Not impressed. Guys like Manning, Montana, Warner, Rothlesburger, Young, Aikmen, etc... could pick apart a defense with 300 lb guys hanging off their other arm.
Even if you don't buy that spygate is partly responsible for their success, at the very minimum, the dynasty should've never been born, as they clearly didn't "win" SB36 fair and square. 150 yards in uncalled penalties, I guarantee result in more than a 3 point swing...
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/bernie-kukar-changing-the-outcome-of-superbowl-xxxvi/495054251
Brady = the most overrated QB in NFL history, and a punk ass cry baby on top of that. (his sideline "intensity"? :rollseyes:)
I agree with a little bit of that...Its not like the Colts have had a stellar defense by any means and Manning is much better at picking apart defenses than Brady is...Like I said before, Manning makes not so talented receivers look like number one receivers on the field...If the Colts could get a damn defense for a few seasons you would see them start a dynasty...
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I wouldn't even put Brady in my top 15. He's been the beneficiary of stellar defenses, and outstanding offensive lines, brilliant coaching (cheating - busted for spying in 2001 and 2007.... and we are supposed to just believe that everything in between was "clean"? LOL), and outstanding front office personnel management. Anytime someone talks of his "picking apart a defense".... notice how he has about 8-15 seconds to throw. Any QB in the league would've been just as successful over the past decade. Not impressed. Guys like Manning, Montana, Warner, Rothlesburger, Young, Aikmen, etc... could pick apart a defense with 300 lb guys hanging off their other arm.
Even if you don't buy that spygate is partly responsible for their success, at the very minimum, the dynasty should've never been born, as they clearly didn't "win" SB36 fair and square. 150 yards in uncalled penalties, I guarantee result in more than a 3 point swing...
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/bernie-kukar-changing-the-outcome-of-superbowl-xxxvi/495054251
Brady = the most overrated QB in NFL history, and a punk ass cry baby on top of that. (his sideline "intensity"? :rollseyes:)
Wow....that's alot o' hate you have stored up...And when it's all said and done and Brady has 4-6 rings you can continue to cry about it...
Gee look at Joe Montana and his coach and then Jerry Rice...
look at Aikman's O' line, Michael Irvin, Jay Novachec, Emmitt Smith and Jimmy Johnson.
Kurt Warner, Ike Bruce, Tory Holt, Marshal Faulk
Brady had 1 superstar offensive player in Randy Moss and they broke every fucking record that year and almost went undefeated...Brady has not had any advantage any other HOF QB had....actually less in offense...Look what the team is doing this year with what they have...Fuck off
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Wow....that's alot o' hate you have stored up...And when it's all said and done and Brady has 4-6 rings you can continue to cry about it...
Gee look at Joe Montana and his coach and then Jerry Rice...
look at Aikman's O' line, Michael Irvin, Jay Novachec, Emmitt Smith and Jimmy Johnson.
Kurt Warner, Ike Bruce, Tory Holt, Marshal Faulk
Brady had 1 superstar offensive player in Randy Moss and they broke every fucking record that year and almost went undefeated...Brady has not had any advantage any other HOF QB had....actually less in offense...Look what the team is doing this year with what they have...Fuck off
Wiggs I am a Brady fan, but you have to understand that the Pats are a complete team too and have been...I mean hell the Pats made Matt Cassel look like a star QB with 11 wins when he was their starter when Brady was out...He was no Brady, but the team still got 11 wins with him...I would have liked to see how well the Pats would have done with a defense like the Colts
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Wiggs I am a Brady fan, but you have to understand that the Pats are a complete team too and have been...I mean hell the Pats made Matt Cassel look like a star QB with 11 wins when he was their starter when Brady was out...He was no Brady, but the team still got 11 wins with him...I would have liked to see how well the Pats would have done with a defense like the Colts
Look at Matt Cassel's records in Atlanta...8-2...He's a good QB.
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Look at Matt Cassel's records in Atlanta...8-2...He's a good QB.
Hey Wiggs you realize Matt Cassel has never played for Atlanta right?
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Hey Wiggs you realize Matt Cassel has never played for Atlanta right?
lol...meant Chiefs ;D
Cassel not Ryan slightly different record but still good
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lol...meant Chiefs ;D
Cassel not Ryan
Yeah, his QB ability has nothing to do with them being ranked number one in rushing Wiggs lol...They happen to be ranked 26th in passing....
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Brady is clearly better than Manning, and has been for a while.
But he's not better than Montana.
look at the stats. manning is better :-*
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look at the stats. manning is better :-*
Look at the super bowl rings and playoff record, Brady is better :-*
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Ok Mr. Realist why don't you pull up some stats that are of significance, i.e. Playoff record...and Superbowl wins...
i knew that was coming. you didn;t say who has the most playoff and superbowl wins..you said who is better. manning is better because his stats are better :-*
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Look at the super bowl rings and playoff record, Brady is better :-*
Look at the Pats team as a whole...The Pats have had the better team all the way around...If the Colts had the Pats defense everyones stories would change
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Yeah, his QB ability has nothing to do with them being ranked number one in rushing Wiggs lol...They happen to be ranked 26th in passing....
Look at his stats though last week...18 TDs 4 ints 2094 yds and 96.4 passer rating...he's a good QB...not Brady level but good and of course having Bellichec is going to help that like others having great Coaches....Although Bill is best football coach ever....
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Wow....that's alot o' hate you have stored up...And when it's all said and done and Brady has 4-6 rings you can continue to cry about it...
Four maybe but six is a little generous. Brady is great but he's 33 and has a reconstructed knee. I don't think he's winning three more Super Bowls.
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the TEAM the brady plays for is better..they have the superbowl wins. but mannings stats are better..WELL go ahead and delete you post because you are wrong
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i knew that was coming. you didn;t say who has the most playoff and superbowl wins..you said who is better. manning is better because his stats are better :-*
These are stats my friend and the most important stats as that is the point of the game...to win superbowls and QB is most important position and affects wins and losses more than any other position...
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Four maybe but six a little generous. Brady is great but he's 33 and has a reconstructed knee. I don't think he's winning three more Super Bowls.
exactly..meanwhile manning will keep adding to his totals even after brady is forced into retirement
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Look at his stats though last week...18 TDs 4 ints 2094 yds and 96.4 passer rating...he's a good QB...not Brady level but good and of course having Bellichec is going to help that like others having great Coaches....Although Bill is best football coach ever....
Hey not going to argue about Bellichec being a great coach that is true...But Cassel is no star QB and he will be lucky to finish the season with 9 wins....Those wins will come on the back of his running game, not his QB ability
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These are stats my friend and the most important stats as that is the point of the game...to win superbowls and QB is most important position and affects wins and losses more than any other position...
Yet the Pats almost took a not so talented QB to the playoffs and 11 wins
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Hey not going to argue about Bellichec being a great coach that is true...But Cassel is no star QB and he will be lucky to finish the season with 9 wins....Those wins will come on the back of his running game, not his QB ability
Kansas City also has the Pats old Offensive Coordinator in Carlie "Jabba the Hutt" Weiss and Defensive Coordinator Romeo Cronel. ;) Weiss and Cronell were there for the three titles and since they are in K.C., they will win multiple Super Bowl titles with your thinking. :-\ :-\
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the TEAM the brady plays for is better..they have the superbowl wins. but mannings stats are better..WELL go ahead and delete you post because you are wrong
Really? Care to expand on your statement? Name some key players on the Pats Offense throughout the years...Pro Bowl level....Brady, Moss, Welker, Manning, Adai, Clarke, Wayne, Harrison, Edgrin James..
Brady has NEVER had a great RB...Kevin Faulk, and an old Corey Dillon...Manning had Marshal Faulk, Edgerin James and Joseph Adai...
...The only advantage Pats ever had on better players is the Defense...Pats are a better team because Bill demands more of his players than any other team...Brady has a killer instinct and can remain calm and composed under pressure...Manning has proven time and again when it comes to playing under pressure, he chokes, consistently...As Matt C says...Stats don't lie...
Bill takes regular people and makes them Superstars and takes Superstars and makes them legends...
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The experts from the NFL Network and ESPN both have Montana #1.
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Kansas City also has the Pats old Offensive Coordinator in Carlie "Jabba the Hutt" Weiss and Defensive Coordinator Romeo Cronel. ;) Weiss and Cronell were there for the three titles and since they are in K.C., they will win multiple Super Bowl titles with your thinking. :-\ :-\
Doug, that is idiotic...How about this...Brady would be a good QB no matter where you put him, but he wouldn't have the same success in another program...
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The experts from the NFL Network and ESPN both have Montana #1.
for now...
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Really? Care to expand on your statement? Name some key players on the Pats Offense throughout the years...Pro Bowl level....Brady, Moss, Welker, Manning, Adai, Clarke, Wayne, Harrison, Edgrin James..
Brady has NEVER had a great RB...Kevin Faulk, and an old Corey Dillon...Manning had Marshal Faulk, Edgerin James and Joseph Adai...
...The only advantage Pats ever had on better players is the Defense...Pats are a better team because Bill demands more of his players than any other team...Brady has a killer instinct and can remain calm and composed under pressure...Manning has proven time and again when it comes to playing under pressure, he chokes, consistently...As Matt C says...Stats don't lie...
Bill takes regular people and makes them Superstars and takes Superstars and makes them legends...
Your right Wiggs stats don't lie do they....Put Brady on another team there is no way he would have had the success he has had...Brady contributed big time to the Pats success, but he didn't make that team what it is Bill Bellichec did...Manning came into a not to good Colts program with not the best of coaching and made it a better program...Like I said before I am a fan of Brady cause he is a Michigan alum, but he hasn't made the Pats program what it is
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Doug, that is idiotic...How about this...Brady would be a good QB no matter where you put him, but he wouldn't have the same success in another program...
Neither would manning...he can amass personal stats but bottom line is Brady came in off the bench and led his team to a Superbowl the first year he started...
Manning had Dungy and only got 1 ring...he'll get no more rings...He's a good QB for regular season...Brady is the best playoff QB...
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Neither would manning...he can amass personal stats but bottom line is Brady came in off the bench and led his team to a Superbowl the first year he started...
Manning had Dungy and only got 1 ring...he'll get no more rings...He's a good QB for regular season...Brady is the best playoff QB...
Dungy is a good coach, but no where near the talent that Bill is...Manning could have been in many programs and still have great stats, the guy is the best on the field coach there is...If Manning doesn't go into coaching after he retires he would be doing the NFL a great injustice
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Dungy is great...look what he did for tampa before that job got jacked...No one is on Bellichec's level but it isn't just the Coach...
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Dungy is great...look what he did for tampa before that job got jacked...No one is on Bellichec's level but it isn't just the Coach...
Have you ever noticed, that when the Pats come out in the second half of most of their games they start dominating teams??? Why do you think that is?? Brady isn't necessarily playing better....Its due to Bellichec having time to sit down and talk to his team and you can see the superior coaching come out
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Have you ever noticed, that when the Pats come out in the second half of most of their games they start dominating teams??? Why do you think that is?? Brady isn't necessarily playing better....Its due to Bellichec having time to sit down and talk to his team and you can see the superior coaching come out
Correct, but your trivializing Brady's talents...You couldn't put any ol' joe in his position and get the same results...
I always like to do this...Switch teams with Brady and Manning now what do you think the outcome would be?...Some people believe Manning would have 5-6 Superbowls...I don't think Manning and Bill could work together...
Brady on a team with Dungy and the talent they had would def win superbowls...I guess it's the would have, could have...
If there were two min remaining in a game and the QB is on his own 20...I'd rather have Brady than Manning...any day...Manning is always good for that pick...
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Montana did everything Brady does now, but he did it when defenses were actually allowed to play defense.
Back in the 80s you could practically tackle wide receivers and actually hit the quarterback.
Plus, Montana never lost a Super Bowl.
that,,, and sam with guys like in namths unitus' starbach etc eras,,,,
thanks to lt 56 ending montans career and stopping him from gtng the ring again that yr giants won 91, montana woulda kept goin who knows, when he landed in kc it wasnt the same even tho he did bring more wins than kc had prev sesions but again aftr th inury nd everythng leavn sf it wasnt the same.
pats hav an all round good team practic habits training nd vry important gr8 coaches that hav been in game long time and coachd and asstd under sprbowl winning coaches teams dynasties etc. things like that help players get into position to make plays more consistantly.
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Correct, but your trivializing Brady's talents...You couldn't put any ol' joe in his position and get the same results...
I always like to do this...Switch teams with Brady and Manning now what do you think the outcome would be?...Some people believe Manning would have 5-6 Superbowls...I don't think Manning and Bill could work together...
Brady on a team with Dungy and the talent they had would def win superbowls...I guess it's the would have, could have...
If there were two min remaining in a game and the QB is on his own 20...I'd rather have Brady than Manning...any day...Manning is always good for that pick...
I agree with the Bill and Payton not getting along...Both of them are to control freaks...But I don't agree with Brady winning several Superbowls with Dungy and talent...I think he would have done well, but Payton pulls more from his receivers...Look at how many no name receivers Payton has demanded more from and they deliver...The reason why Payton should go into coaching after retiring from playing
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Agree to disagree :) 8)
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This is self evident.
Of course he is better than manning
hell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner) was beter than manning ever was or will be
the colts won 1 sueprbnowl on a 80 yard pass interception bullshit call in last 2min or pats would ahve 4 and they should have 5 after the giants scam where no holding caleld on giants whole 2nd half
laoda shit
for all time I would have to put joe montana in there with tom
I am not a terry bradshaw or marino beleiver
that wiki page was cool,,, thought warner was arite sinc he 1st got to rams,,, funny that he trails penngton in complet %,,, shame about chad,, he just got bak from that bad shldr injury(3rd) when most doubtd bc it was his third rotator so game ovr after 1or 2 for a qb thn he gets bak from this, actually gets in the game and bam 1st play done,,, shldr again. if he wasnt so glassy whn 1st wth the jets he prob still be there now.
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Agree to disagree :) 8)
Not arguing, but you have to see how much Payton spreads the ball compared to Tom...I mean in their last match up that was a great game...Tom only threw the ball to 4 different players compared to Payton spreading the ball to 7 players....Just saying that Payton really does pull more from less talent...He has made Austin Collie into a great possession receiver now...
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Wow....that's alot o' hate you have stored up...
Nah, just keepin' it real. I have no reason to hate Brady. I am just a smart football fan that knows he's very average at best.
And when it's all said and done and Brady has 4-6 rings you can continue to cry about it...
And that's 4-6 rings that Brady can thank Kraft and Belicheck for. It's the team around him that makes him good, not him making the others around him good (which is the case with most other elite QB's like Manning, Warner, Roth, Montana, Young, etc...)
Gee look at Joe Montana and his coach and then Jerry Rice...
look at Aikman's O' line, Michael Irvin, Jay Novachec, Emmitt Smith and Jimmy Johnson.
Kurt Warner, Ike Bruce, Tory Holt, Marshal Faulk
Only Aikmen had an O-line and a defense that you can compare to the Patriots. Oh, and the Cowboys didn't cheat, either. Your logic is failing.
Brady had 1 superstar offensive player in Randy Moss and they broke every fucking record that year and almost went undefeated...Brady has not had any advantage any other HOF QB had....actually less in offense...Look what the team is doing this year with what they have...Fuck off
QB's make supertars, not the other way around. (this is different from the "team" being better because of the quarterback, as I mentioned above.... superstars is a different concept all togehter) Emmitt Smith goes to Arizona and does nothing without Aikmen. Marshall Faulk does pretty much nothing after Bulger takes over for Warner, Holt and bruce went downhill fast too.. Larry Fitzgerald ain't much without Warner. Rice does nothing without Montana and Young, and so on....
Again, the reason Brady puts up the numbers and the wins that he does is that he barely ever gets touched. Those 2 hits he took in the first quarter against the Lions were pretty much all he's been hit all season. The one other time he got rocked, the beginning of the 2008 season, his glass leg ended up in shambles and he was done for the year. Being Bobby Kraft and Goodell's golden boy, he then had a glass quarterback rule named after him. Fact is, you CAN put scrubs like Cassell in the Patriots offense, and they'll still win, go to the playoffs, and be a threat. They are a complete team with great coaching and stellar personel decisions. Their QB is just average to above average, and deserves maybe 25% of the credit he gets in the mainstream media. Hell, I could go in there and do just as well with 8 seconds to throw before a defender even gets near him. Easy. Hell I probably don't have Brady in my top 30 of all time.
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Tom Brady all day over Manning. Brady has ice water in his veins. Manning is a choke artist.
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Montana did not play against 300lb defenders, hell when he played maybe only 5-10 in the league, there was no salary cap, so didn't lose any good players due to salary, not knocking Montana, he is Notre Dame boy and was great, but have to give the nod to Brady
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bradys better case closed there ...ol horseface manning is sooo overrated, but big ben will go on to play longer and win more supperbowls then both!!!
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lol at best QB ever.
in 15-20 years it will be looked back on and brett favre will be widely regarded to be the best quarterback to ever play the game.
nobody will say it now due to his less than stellar year.
but in 20 years or so from now, that consensus will be broad.
i dont know how this is even debatable.
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Manning was a much better SNL host.
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Montana did not play against 300lb defenders, hell when he played maybe only 5-10 in the league, there was no salary cap, so didn't lose any good players due to salary, not knocking Montana, he is Notre Dame boy and was great, but have to give the nod to Brady
maybe not as many 300lb linman but guys that were 270 jakd on pcp and dust were the norm back then so,,,
300lb guy on sauce < 270lb guy on sauce plus pcp and whatever else, just ask lt what he was takin
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Fact is Manning only won 1 superbowl against a shitty Bears offense (Grossman) in a rainstorm. He just threw 3 picks against the pats, 1 of them with the Colts already in field goal position to tie the game.
Everyone talks about the players that they have around them. Tom Brady won superbowls throwing to guys like Branch, Givins, Patten, and Troy Brown. When Brady got Moss (when he was still trying to play) he threw 50 touchdowns. Manning was throwing to great receivers like Harrison, Dallas Clark, and reggie Wayne. oh yeah he also had edgerrin James as his running back for many years.
Manning has had superior talent to work with his whole career. The pats are currently 9-2, while Brady is throwing to guys like Tate, branch, Gronkowski, hernandez, edelman, and Woodhead. Give me a break. ::)
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I agree with a little bit of that...Its not like the Colts have had a stellar defense by any means and Manning is much better at picking apart defenses than Brady is...Like I said before, Manning makes not so talented receivers look like number one receivers on the field...If the Colts could get a damn defense for a few seasons you would see them start a dynasty...
I'm not a Brady guy by any means (primarily because I hate the way the media sucks his coach's dick without shame), but one cannot begin to argue that - other than a short tenure with Randy Moss - he's ever had receiver talent that measured up to Harrison or Wayne.
In the 2004 AFC Championship, Manning threw 4 interceptions in a loss to NE.
In the 2005 playoffs, the Colts - the league's highest-scoring team - scored 3 points in a loss to NE in the divisional round.
In the 2005-2006 season, the Colts won their first 14 games and then decided to 'rest' their starters until the playoffs. They then went out and lost their first playoff game, prompting Manning's now-infamous 'idiot kicker' line.
The Colts won the Super Bowl in 2007 against a Chicago Bears team that was, I believe, QB'd by Rex Grossman. They did finally manage to beat the Patriots however, but damn near lost that AFC title game at home.
In the 2008 playoffs, the Colts lost at home to San Diego in the divisional round, as BILLY VOLEK led the Chargers' 4th-quarter comeback. Ok, Manning doesn't play defense, but he failed to convert 4th-down opportunities - one inside the 10-yard-line - on the Colts' final two drives in the closing minutes. That's called NOT getting it done in crunch time.
In the 2009 playoffs, Manning's Colts lost in the wild-card round at San Diego.
In the 2010 playoffs, the favored Colts got beat down in the Super Bowl, as Manning threw 1 TD to go along with his 1 pick.
Despite all that we want to say about how nice and smart Manning is, the fact of the matter is that he simply has NOT gotten the job done when the games mattered most. For him to be in the conversation for greatest of all-time, he'll have to do a helluva lot more in the PLAYOFFS before he hangs 'em up, because as of right now, he's not even the best QB of this era. He's tied for 3rd with Drew Brees behind Brady, and Big Ben.
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Not arguing, but you have to see how much Payton spreads the ball compared to Tom...I mean in their last match up that was a great game...Tom only threw the ball to 4 different players compared to Payton spreading the ball to 7 players....Just saying that Payton really does pull more from less talent...He has made Austin Collie into a great possession receiver now...
I don't know what you are talking about, here. Aside from 2007, Brady's supporting cast was never even close to as good as what Manning has had in Indy, and he's had much more success. Do the names Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James and Dallas Clark ring a bell? Not to mention, the Colts play in a dome. Brady plays outdoors in the northeast. That is a factor.
The colts have alot of injuries because they believe in speed. Small fast guys. Whats the problem with that philosophy? Injuries. The pats have a lot of injuries too. Leigh Bodden (#1 db), Steven Neal (pro bowl linemen), Kevin Faulk (3rd down back), Ty Warrren, Steven Goskowski --etc.
Currently, Brady is having an MVP level season throwing to two rookie tight ends, a rookie wr, Wes Welker, Deion Branch, with an undrafted free agent running back. All the players I mentioned have multiple touchdowns. He's been spreading the ball around just as much as Manning. Your point makes no sense, anyway...a guy could key on less players because he's got a matchup that is working. Brady was targeting the same four guys in the Indy games because they consistently won their battles with their defenders.
Brady made Deion Branch into a superbowl mvp, because after he left NE, he was HORRIBLE in Seattle, and now that he back, he's playing like his old self...weird.
In 2006, Brady was throwing to the likes of Reche Caldwell as a number one wr (that guys not even as good as Austin Collie). He took that team all the way to the AFC championship game. It's already been done.
Both QB's are the best of their generation. Both are amazing players. 1a -1b or vice versa.
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I agree with the Bill and Payton not getting along...Both of them are to control freaks...But I don't agree with Brady winning several Superbowls with Dungy and talent...I think he would have done well, but Payton pulls more from his receivers...Look at how many no name receivers Payton has demanded more from and they deliver...The reason why Payton should go into coaching after retiring from playing
Again, what are you talking about?
Aside from this year, Manning has been throwing to guys like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark over his entire career, and he's won a single title.
Aside from Randy Moss, please tell me the "big name" guys Brady has had to thrown to?
Brady is having an MVP year throwing to two rookie tight ends, a rookie wr, Wes Welker and Deion Branch.
Reggie Wayne is better than Wes Welker, and aside from that, none of the patriots guys are any more of a big name than what the colts are working with, currently.
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Fact is Manning only won 1 superbowl against a shitty Bears offense (Grossman) in a rainstorm. He just threw 3 picks against the pats, 1 of them with the Colts already in field goal position to tie the game.
Everyone talks about the players that they have around them. Tom Brady won superbowls throwing to guys like Branch, Givins, Patten, and Troy Brown. When Brady got Moss (when he was still trying to play) he threw 50 touchdowns. Manning was throwing to great receivers like Harrison, Dallas Clark, and reggie Wayne. oh yeah he also had edgerrin James as his running back for many years.
Manning has had superior talent to work with his whole career. The pats are currently 9-2, while Brady is throwing to guys like Tate, branch, Gronkowski, hernandez, edelman, and Woodhead. Give me a break.
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Brady is as good as anyone who's played the game....time will tell if he's the greatest but he's headed that way.
....and this is from a die hard Giants fan.I gained more respect for Brady in the Superbowl loss to the Giants then any of his wins.
he got POUNDED that game and on the last drive of the game he got crushed on a sack and then got up and threw a 65 yard pass to Moss that might have been caught and changed the game if it wasn't for the safety who knocked the ball away.
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Again, what are you talking about?
Aside from this year, Manning has been throwing to guys like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark over his entire career, and he's won a single title.
Aside from Randy Moss, please tell me the "big name" guys Brady has had to thrown to?
Brady is having an MVP year throwing to two rookie tight ends, a rookie wr, Wes Welker and Deion Branch.
Reggie Wayne is better than Wes Welker, and aside from that, none of the patriots guys are any more of a big name than what the colts are working with, currently.
dude you're such a homer its sickening.
you'd prolly give tom brady head if you could.
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dude you're such a homer its sickening.
you'd prolly give tom brady head if you could.
I dare you to go to the sport board and research that comment. I have said over and over that Manning is a great qb, and that it's 1a-1b between the two. Look at the bottom of the post above the one you quoted.
You see this post:
Aside from this year, Manning has been throwing to guys like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark over his entire career, and he's won a single title.
Aside from Randy Moss, please tell me the "big name" guys Brady has had to thrown to?
Brady is having an MVP year throwing to two rookie tight ends, a rookie wr, Wes Welker and Deion Branch.
Reggie Wayne is better than Wes Welker, and aside from that, none of the patriots guys are any more of a big name than what the colts are working with, currently.
It's all fact, not opinion. Unless of course you can prove otherwise.
You did say Brett Farve is the greatest QB ever, so clearly you are a deranged.
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of course we are a little biased. I'm gonna go with my boy Brady cause I'm a die-hard Pats fan. Just like a Colts fan would take Manning. Fact is you can't go wrong with either of them. Tom Brady is this era's Joe Montana without the hall of fame teammates.
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of course we are a little biased. I'm gonna go with my boy Brady cause I'm a die-hard Pats fan. Just like a Colts fan would take Manning. Fact is you can't go wrong with either of them. Tom Brady is this era's Joe Montana without the hall of fame teammates.
I'm a fan of Payton Manning. Anyone who says he is not a great player is just as dumb as those who say Brady is not a great player. I stated facts in my posts.
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Lotta Tommy-boy haters in this thread and not one has proven that Manning is better...
Manning = great regular season guy
Brady = great post season guy
Manning = choke artist under pressure
Brady = Flourishes under pressure
Brady FTW
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I dare you to go to the sport board and research that comment. I have said over and over that Manning is a great qb, and that it's 1a-1b between the two. Look at the bottom of the post above the one you quoted.
You see this post:
It's all fact, not opinion. Unless of course you can prove otherwise.
You did say Brett Farve is the greatest QB ever, so clearly you are a deranged.
you're the numbers guy, right? i mean, thats how you like to argue, using stats.
compare the records set by tom brady and brett favre, then get back to me.
thanks for coming out.
brady was the beneficiary of the system in new england. its a plug and play.
end of story.
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I'm a fan of Payton Manning. Anyone who says he is not a great player is just as dumb as those who say Brady is not a great player. I stated facts in my posts.
oh I agree completely. I hate Manning, but I respect the hell out of him as a player. he's definately one of the best ever. All these guys deserve to be in the discussion of the greatest qb's ever. The fact that Brady, and Manning probably will play for 5+ more years is scary.
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you're the numbers guy, right? i mean, thats how you like to argue, using stats.
compare the records set by tom brady and brett favre, then get back to me.
thanks for coming out.
brady was the beneficiary of the system in new england. its a plug and play.
end of story.
Favre has lost more important games for his team than winning them. Also, ask Dan Marino if stats mean as much as winning the big one.
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of course we are a little biased. I'm gonna go with my boy Brady cause I'm a die-hard Pats fan. Just like a Colts fan would take Manning. Fact is you can't go wrong with either of them. Tom Brady is this era's Joe Montana without the hall of fame teammates.[/quote]
Future Pro Bowlers for thye Colts
Indy - Dallas Clark
Reggie Wayne
Edgerrin James
Marvin Harrison
Dwight Freeney
Robert Mathis
Jeff Saturday
Future Pro Bowlers for the Pats
Ty Law
Logan Mankins - maybe
Randy Moss
Mike Vrabel - hate to even think that he will get in but maybe.
Matt Light. :-\
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you're the numbers guy, right? i mean, thats how you like to argue, using stats.
compare the records set by tom brady and brett favre, then get back to me.
thanks for coming out.
brady was the beneficiary of the system in new england. its a plug and play.
end of story.
hey no one, so does that make Joe Montana,lor Steve Young beneficiaries of thier systems as well? You could argue that the west coast offense surrounded by hall of famers would qualify as plug and play. If you dislike Brady thats fine, but bottom line he will go down as one of the best ever. PERIOD.
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you're the numbers guy, right? i mean, thats how you like to argue, using stats.
compare the records set by tom brady and brett favre, then get back to me.
thanks for coming out.
brady was the beneficiary of the system in new england. its a plug and play.
end of story.
Ok, I've compared the two, at this point, over the same amount of time in the NFL, Brady's numbers are about ten times better. Literally every stat. Please show me how I am wrong.
What exactly is this system you are talking about? How does it work? How is it different than every other coaches system? If it was just a system, Brady should have 50 td's to 8 int's every year. It should be easy to duplicate the best season by any qb ever. Again, please explain this system to me. Was Joe Montana a product of the west coast offense? How about Steve Young?
End of story? I think you're a full of shit hater and you can't get into a real conversation with me because you dont know what the fuck you're saying.
Ps: Why did this so called system not work for Belichick in Cleveland?
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of course we are a little biased. I'm gonna go with my boy Brady cause I'm a die-hard Pats fan. Just like a Colts fan would take Manning. Fact is you can't go wrong with either of them. Tom Brady is this era's Joe Montana without the hall of fame teammates.[/quote]
Future Pro Bowlers for thye Colts
Indy - Dallas Clark
Reggie Wayne
Edgerrin James
Marvin Harrison
Dwight Freeney
Robert Mathis
Jeff Saturday
Future Pro Bowlers for the Pats
Ty Law
Logan Mankins - maybe
Randy Moss
Mike Vrabel - hate to even think that he will get in but maybe.
Matt Light. :-\
the only one making the Hall of Fame on that list is Moss, and he only played 3 years for them.
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the only one making the Hall of Fame on that list is Moss, and he only played 3 years for them.
Ty Law should make it. 8)
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These guys might get in also.
Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Tedi Bruschi and Richard Seymour might get in also. ;)
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Ty Law should make it. 8)
he was definately one of my favs on those great pats teams. They might not make the Hall, but guys like Mcginnest, Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, Law, Vrabel were the glue on those Dynasty teams
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These guys might get in also.
Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Tedi Bruschi and Richard Seymour might get in also. ;)
There is no question Brady's talented defense helped him win titles...just like Manning's talented offense and dome helped him win his mvp's and put up big numbers. My point, all this shit cancels itself out.
Facts are facts.
There are arguments to be made for both guys as the best of their generation. I happen to prefer Brady, but can see how someone else might prefer Manning.
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Facts are facts.
There are arguments to be made for both guys as the best of their generation. I happen to prefer Brady, but can see how someone else might prefer Manning.
QFT. End of discussion.
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Shizzo,
Weird this system Belichick has didn't work for him in Cleveland. My point, yes belichicks system is great, but you need the horses to run it or it wont work!
Brady (like Manning and other greats) is able to recognize and decipher a defense much faster than 99% of qb's. That is what seperates good from great, period. Manning, Farve, Brady, Montana...they all come from great "systems". The reason they are hof level players is because of their smarts, their instincts, their leadership skills and their ability to read react and execute FASTER than average or good qb's.
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:)
I challenge anyone to argue that...
You want to bang him?
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Shizzo,
Weird this system Belichick has didn't work for him in Cleveland.
Here is the truth: It takes a great system and great players to execute that system to win. The reason Belichick's system didn't work in Cleveland is because he didn't have the players who could execute it. Brady (like Manning and other greats) is able to recognize and decipher a defense much faster than 99% of qb's. That is what seperates good from great, period. Manning, Farve, Brady, Montana...they all come from great "systems".
yeah only morons bash great players by trying to lesson thier accomplishments. I think Belichick actually did a good job with what he had in cleveland. If I remember correctly, before he left he had the Browns in the playoffs. I remember the Browns beating the Pats in the playoffs one year as well. Where the hell have the Browns been since Belichick left?
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I think its funny how the media totally ignores brady at least ehre in los angeles.
That dunce manning has all kinda commercials despite looking retatrded and talking like a soviet after a bottle of absolute
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I think its funny how the media totally ignores brady at least ehre in los angeles.
That dunce manning has all kinda commercials despite looking retatrded and talking like a soviet after a bottle of absolute
Trust me, Brady could have all of Mannings endorsements if he wanted. He isn't that type of guy.
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yeah only morons bash great players by trying to lesson thier accomplishments. I think Belichick actually did a good job with what he had in cleveland. If I remember correctly, before he left he had the Browns in the playoffs. I remember the Browns beating the Pats in the playoffs one year as well. When the hell have the Browns been since Belichick left?
Belichick is a genius, no question about it.
My point is this, all the great ones have had either coaches or supporting casts that complimented one another.
You put Manning or Brady on the 2010 Rams and their record improves instantly. They might even post a winning record, but they ain't winning any titles without a good coach.
Look at the Cowboys and the Vikings. Prime examples of how important good to elite coaching is.
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I think its funny how the media totally ignores brady at least ehre in los angeles.
That dunce manning has all kinda commercials despite looking retatrded and talking like a soviet after a bottle of absolute
Frankly, that's a huge reason why Manning gets so much more credit -- (it's all deserved the guy is a great player). He's out there and he's funny as hell. People like him.
Brady also has to deal with a insecure male fanbase who are threatend by the fact that chicks love him and that he has done well for himself. It's no different than a dude rolling into a bar and having all the females find him attractive. Every insecure pussy in there starts talking shit.
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Belichick is a genius, no question about it.
My point is this, all the great ones have had either coaches or supporting casts that complimented one another.
You put Manning or Brady on the 2010 Rams and their record improves instantly. They might even post a woinning record, but they ain't winning any titles.
Your right on the money.
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Again, the reason Brady puts up the numbers and the wins that he does is that he barely ever gets touched. Those 2 hits he took in the first quarter against the Lions were pretty much all he's been hit all season. The one other time he got rocked, the beginning of the 2008 season, his glass leg ended up in shambles and he was done for the year.
Yeah he really "got rocked" here ::)
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You want to bang him?
lol...no sir. ;D
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lol...no sir. ;D
I'll take his job and his bank account ;D
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Yeah he really "got rocked" here ::)
Don't waste your time with that guy. He is the biggest hater/retard in the history of earth. His arguments are made from straw men based totally on opinion and they are ridiculous, lol. Contradicts himself in every post -- etc.
My favs are:
-System QB - But then calls Montana and Young great ignoring Bill Walsh's west coast offense as being regarded as the greatest system ever. Ignores all the hof players surrounding these guys, etc.
-Offensive line nonsense - Manning has had the better performing offensive line over their careers - that is a fact. Ignored, lol. Ignores that fact that it's the qb's job to set the offensive line protection, so if a qb has time to throw, maybe he made the right protection call. I wonder why Manning and Brady always seem to have a lot of time to throw?? Hmm.
-Great QB's making great players great - as if Reggie Wayne left the colts or if Jerry Rice left the niners they'd suck.
-Great QB's make guys better and they stink after they leave - Hello, Deion Branch left and stunk in Seattle, Terry Glenn left and stunk in Dallas, Wes Welker was never what he was until he came to NE... Moss did NOTHING with Farve, Reche Caldwell is out of football – etc, etc.
-Talks about the Pats defense, but ignores the fact that offensive drives led by Brady won them all their titles... Ignores the fact that any advantage that Brady had on defense was of set by manning's huge advantage on offense.
-Brings up Matt Cassel as proof of a system. The year prior Brady threw 50td’s to 8 int’s. Cassel comes in the next year and throws 16 td’s to 16 int’s with the exact same team. Currently Cassel has 18 td’s to 4 int’s and over 2000 yards passing on a KC team with no offensive weapons, which would indicate he is a good player.
LOL!!!!!!!
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I would not expect much from a man who aspires to view other men's physiques in high definition.
I don't even like Brady but to argue he is a plug-in systems QB is nonsense. He is very good. Better than Manning? Sometimes for sure. Manning's stats are clearly more impressive, Brady's won more SBs. Depends on what your criteria for "better" are.
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I would not expect much from a man who aspires to view other men's physiques in high definition.
I don't even like Brady but to argue he is a plug-in systems QB is nonsense. He is very good. Better than Manning? Sometimes for sure. Manning's stats are clearly more impressive, Brady's won more SBs. Depends on what your criteria for "better" are.
Of course Mannings stats are going to look better than Brady's Manning had a three year head start (4 due to brady missing a whole year due to injury) Manning started as a rookie in 98, Brady didn't start until game 4 of 2001.
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Of course Mannings stats are going to look better than Brady's Manning had a three year head start (4 due to brady missing a whole year due to injury) Manning started as a rookie in 98, Brady didn't start until game 4 of 2001.
Scale per game then genius. Manning's stats are still better.
Brady: 240 yards/game, 1.77 TD/game, 0.74 INT/game, 63.6% completions.
Manning: 263 yards/game, 1.91 TD/game, 0.93 INT/game, 64.8% completions
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Scale per game then genius. Manning's stats are still better.
Brady: 240 yards/game, 1.77 TD/game, 0.74 INT/game, 63.6% completions.
Manning: 263 yards/game, 1.91 TD/game, 0.93 INT/game, 64.8% completions
This is true, but it's very close and your initial comments make it seem as if it is not. Also, Manning has played over 50% of his career in a climate controled dome, conducive to offensive performance;this cannot be discounted.
In the end, it's 1a -1b...take your pick, both are stellar.
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This is true, but it's very close and your initial comments make it seem as if it is not. Also, Manning has played over 50% of his career in a climate controled dome, conducive to offensive performance;this cannot be discounted.
In the end, it's 1a -1b...take your pick, both are stellar.
Manning being more impressive statistically is inarguable. He puts up bigger numbers. Who is "better" depends on a variety subjective points, which I have said in every post I've ever made on this topic.
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How does Manning's stats compare when he plays inside vs. outside?
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At this point all I can say for Manning is.
If Manning has , or has had, a (relatively) bad game, Colts lose.
IMO Patriots have been more whole, as a team, and therefore have been able to win
even without a good game from Brady.
Matt Cassel wan't that bad at the helm of Patriots, or was he?
My 2cents why Brady has more rings than Manning...
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At this point all I can say for Manning is.
If Manning has , or has had, a (relatively) bad game, Colts lose.
IMO Patriots have been more whole, as a team, and therefore have been able to win
even without a good game from Brady.
Matt Cassel wan't that bad at the helm of Patriots, or was he?
My 2cents why Brady has more rings than Manning...
Untrue, the year the colts won the SB he played AWFUL. Remember the Ravens game? They won on field goals and Manning threw like 4 picks. The stats are there for all to see. In the playoffs, Brady has performed better. A lot better. I don't hate Manning, I'm just stating facts.
When Brady plays very poor the Pats tend to lose also. On what occasions did they Win despite Brady having a poor game?
Matt Cassel is a good player. See his numbers and record in KC right now. 18 td's to 4 ints and over 2000 yards passing.
We've gone over why Brady has more rings than Manning and even given examples of Manning making mistakes that cost his team titles. See Tre's post for examples.
I honestly think some of the anti Brady crowd just pulls shit out of their ass.
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Scale per game then genius. Manning's stats are still better.
Brady: 240 yards/game, 1.77 TD/game, 0.74 INT/game, 63.6% completions.
Manning: 263 yards/game, 1.91 TD/game, 0.93 INT/game, 64.8% completions
You made my point. Those stats are almost indentical. Manning throws a few more tds, but also throws more picks. Manning only thows for 20yds more on average despite having a more wide open offense. Completion % essentially identical. Come talk to me when Manning throws for 50TD and 8 ints for a whole season, while leading his team to a perfect regular season, and leading his team to a go-ahead touchdown in the 4th quarter of the 07 superbowl only for the d to give up the lead in the final seconds.
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You made my point. Those stats are almost indentical. Manning throws a few more tds, but also throws more picks. Manning only thows for 20yds more on average despite having a more wide open offense. Completion % essentially identical. Come talk to me when Manning throws for 50TD and 8 ints for a whole season, while leading his team to a perfect regular season, and leading his team to a go-ahead touchdown in the 4th quarter of the 07 superbowl only for the d to give up the lead in the final seconds.
That sucked.
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I'm not a Brady hater.
I tried to explain how I feel between the two.
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How does Manning's stats compare when he plays inside vs. outside?
This is a good article on the topic that I found while googling for this info:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/142839-the-indoor-colts-and-the-outdoor-patriots-domefield-advantage
Manning has a career rating of 98.4 at home (all indoors) and 92.1 on the road (mix of in/out). Brady is 95.1 at home (all outdoors) and 93.6 on the road (mix of in/out). But there's only about 20 games in there where they played in comparable conditions.
ESPN.com has splits by temperature and stadium but it's only for each year and I can't be bothered to add all that up.
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I'm not a Brady hater.
I tried to explain how I feel between the two.
I hear you... that was a general comment not directed towards you.
If you want more proof, look at Matt Cassel. A lot of haters have been bringing him up in this thread in regards to Brady's importance to the Patriots overall success.
In 2007 Brady threw 50 td's to 8 int's. Set every QB record known to man. The next year Brady tears his acl, and Matt Cassel stepped in to the same system (a system he was part of for four years), with the exact same team as the 07 version, and he threw 16 td's to 16 int's. If it was the "system", he'd have a lot better numbers, because nothing changed from the year prior.
Currently, Matt Cassel has 18td's to 4 int's and over 2000 yards passing on KC team that does not have big time offensive weapons. The guys a good player, period.
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You made my point. Those stats are almost indentical. Manning throws a few more tds, but also throws more picks. Manning only thows for 20yds more on average despite having a more wide open offense. Completion % essentially identical. Come talk to me when Manning throws for 50TD and 8 ints for a whole season, while leading his team to a perfect regular season, and leading his team to a go-ahead touchdown in the 4th quarter of the 07 superbowl only for the d to give up the lead in the final seconds.
What is your point exactly? That Manning and Brady are the same statistically? "Almost", "a few more", "essentially" are all weak, subjective statements. Manning's stats are better no matter how you split things up. Obviously this difference will become smaller as you divide things up over shorter and shorter periods because they are both good QBs. Manning had 49 TD and 10 INT in a season once (and a better QB rating than Brady had in 2007) but I guess that's negligible because Brady threw 50 touchdowns ::). Arguments that Brady and Manning are equivalent statistically is no better than the idiots arguing that Brady is a dime-a-dozen plug-in-the-system QB. Is it really that hard to admit that Manning puts up better numbers?
Regarding the 2007 Super Bowl, Manning's defense has been losing games for him his entire career and using one game or season to argue over who is better overall is pointless. If you want to criticize Manning for playoffs losses (which is really the only criterion in which he trails Brady) you have to do so for Brady too rather than trying to turn it into a strength.
Honestly this is a stupid debate, they are both great and neither is clearly better which is obvious to anyone who isn't a huge Colts or Pats homer.
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I agree,and I have always said that Manning and Brady are 1a-1b. Both are once in a lifetime players for any team.
I prefer Brady, but if I didn't have Brady it would be Manning in a heartbeat. No question.
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I agree,and I have always said that Manning and Brady are 1a-1b. Both are once in a lifetime players for any team.
I prefer Brady, but if I didn't have Brady it would be Manning in a heartbeat. No question.
I echo this statement.
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Untrue, the year the colts won the SB he played AWFUL. Remember the Ravens game? They won on field goals and Manning threw like 4 picks. The stats are there for all to see. In the playoffs, Brady has performed better. A lot better. I don't hate Manning, I'm just stating facts.
When Brady plays very poor the Pats tend to lose also. On what occasions did they Win despite Brady having a poor game?
Matt Cassel is a good player. See his numbers and record in KC right now. 18 td's to 4 ints and over 2000 yards passing.
We've gone over why Brady has more rings than Manning and even given examples of Manning making mistakes that cost his team titles. See Tre's post for examples.
I honestly think some of the anti Brady crowd just pulls shit out of their ass.
Body, I am not Brady hating at all...But when Cassel was put into the Pats system he excelled....Lets wonder why KC is 26th in passing yards and 1st in rushing yards....When your not throwing the ball around much your interception rate goes way down lol...Also when you watch KC play a lot of those passing yards come from lucky down field passes...
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Ps: Why did this so called system not work for Belichick in Cleveland?
Because it goes like this (in terms of level of importance for success): front office (player/personnel guys), coaching/system, player skill. Brady has been successful because of the first two, not because he is any good (he's not great, just average to above avg at best).
Damn, the Brady bunch is getting their asses kicked in this thread.
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Body, I am not Brady hating at all...But when Cassel was put into the Pats system he excelled....Lets wonder why KC is 26th in passing yards and 1st in rushing yards....When your not throwing the ball around much your interception rate goes way down lol...Also when you watch KC play a lot of those passing yards come from lucky down field passes...
He didn't excel. He threw 16 td's vs 16 int's. The year prior, Brady threw 50 td's and 8 int's with the exact same team. Dude, how much more of a difference would you like? The only difference between the 07 and the 08 Pats was the QB. Your argument has been proven wrong. Further more, the Patriots "system" was changed drastically this season and Brady is putting up MVP level numbers. 24 td's to 4 int's with a 105 rating. Throwing to rookies and guys you never heard of.
KC throws the ball less than other teams because their rushing attack is very good. So what? QB's stats are based on attempts. Cassel is having a very good year and he has thrown 18 td's to 4 int's and helped turn the chiefs into a winning team. Your opinion on Cassel making lucky throws is just that, an opinion. I don't feel that way when I watch him play. Lastly, Cassel demanded a second round draft choice. Smart football people don't give up second round draft choices for chumps.
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Because it goes like this (in terms of level of importance for success): front office (player/personnel guys), coaching/system, player skill. Brady has been successful because of the first two, not because he is any good (he's not great, just average to above avg at best).
Damn, the Brady bunch is getting their asses kicked in this thread.
You are a terrible gimmick.
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I would not expect much from a man who aspires to view other men's physiques in high definition.
Me neither. Gays are disgusting.
I don't even like Brady but to argue he is a plug-in systems QB is nonsense. He is very good.
No, he's above average at best. The only thing he is "very good" at is throwing sideline temper tantrums and then having his fawning fans in the mass media try to brainwash us into believing it's "passion" and "intensity". :rollseyes:
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He didn't excel. He threw 16 td's vs 16 int's. The year prior, Brady threw 50 td's and 8 int's with the exact same team. Dude, how much more of a difference would you like? The only difference between the 07 and the 08 Pats was the QB. Your argument has been proven wrong. Further more, the Patriots "system" was changed drastically this season and Brady is putting up MVP level numbers. 24 td's to 4 int's with a 105 rating. Throwing to rookies and guys you never heard of.
KC throws the ball less than other teams because their rushing attack is very good. So what? QB's stats are based on attempts. Cassel is having a very good year and he has thrown 18 td's to 4 int's and helped turn the chiefs into a winning team. Your opinion on Cassel making lucky throws is just that, an opinion. I don't feel that way when I watch him play. Lastly, Cassel demanded a second round draft choice. Smart football people don't give up second round draft choices for chumps.
Hahaha, you do realize I have stated that Brady is better than Cassel...Still Brady wouldn't be as successful outside a program other than the Pats...By the way, the year after Brady had 28 TDs while Cassel had 21 the year before...Oh he didn't have Randy Moss is what I guess you will argue lol...I like Brady, but he is a result of the system he plays for....
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Weird this system Belichick has didn't work for him in Cleveland.
His video cameras weren't as good then.
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You are a terrible gimmick.
But that's not one of his gimmick accounts! lol
....
Look - in the world of sports, you're defined by what you do - or don't do - in the playoffs. People remember that Eli Manning drove his team down for the winning score and while we still remember David Tyree's catch to keep the drive alive and Plaxico catching the game-winner, no one gives a shit that the Patriots won all 16 of their regular-season games.
Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. That's his legacy.
For all the media's love affair with him, Peyton Manning has not come through in big playoff games. The signature win of his entire career was the improbable comeback at home vs New England last year, which only made news because of Belichick's stupid play call on 4th down.
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Hahaha, you do realize I have stated that Brady is better than Cassel...Still Brady wouldn't be as successful outside a program other than the Pats...By the way, the year after Brady had 28 TDs while Cassel had 21 the year before...Oh he didn't have Randy Moss is what I guess you will argue lol...I like Brady, but he is a result of the system he plays for....
Clearly Brady is better than Cassel. Your statement of Brady being a "system quarterback" is bunk, and while I present evidence of this fact over and over, you continue to make the same statement with evidence to support your claim.
Lets make this simple, I will state facts and you refute them point by point:
-Tom Brady threw 50 td's vs 8 int's in 2007 with a 115% qb rating , leading his team to a 16-0 regular season. Matt Cassel threw 16 td's vs 16 int's with the exact same team and coaches. The ONLY difference was the qb. If there was a "system" Cassel should have at least been able to duplicate Bradys rookie season where he threw 18td's vs 12 int's with 85% rating.
-Tom Brady has won 2 superbowl MVP's based upon big plays he made under pressure. He also owns three titles, an NFL MVP and claim to the great season of any qb ever. His carrer numbers are first ballot hof level. What is it about the system that makes all the possible?
- Tom Brady has had THREE offensive coordinators since he started playing. Charlie Wiess, Josh McDaniel's and now Matt Patricia. None of these "systems" are the same. You assumption of one system is wrong.
- Explain the patriots system to me. What attributes does it have to make Brady as great as he is? I know what the Patriots "system" consists of, and it has nothing to do with a special offensive way of doing things. A curl route is a curl route dude, the terminology is all that separates "systems".
- Do you think Manning and Montana are system qb's? Manning has played in the same offensive system with the same coordinator for his entire career. Bill Walsh's west coast offense is regarded as the most successful system ever.
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His video cameras weren't as good then.
Belichick is regarded as the best coach in football, hands down. Even his biggest critics respect his ability and you cannot argue with his success. To be 9-2 with a team as young as it is right now is amazing.
Say what you want, but I wouldn't want any other coach in charge of the team I root for.
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Clearly Brady is better than Cassel. Your statement of Brady being a "system quarterback" is bunk, and while I present evidence of this fact over and over, you continue to make the same statement with evidence to support your claim.
Lets make this simple, I will state facts and you refute them point by point:
-Tom Brady threw 50 td's vs 8 int's in 2007 with a 115% qb rating , leading his team to a 16-0 regular season. Matt Cassel threw 16 td's vs 16 int's with the exact same team and coaches. The ONLY difference was the qb. If there was a "system" Cassel should have at least been able to duplicate Bradys rookie season where he threw 18td's vs 12 int's with 85% rating.
-Tom Brady has won 2 superbowl MVP's based upon big plays he made under pressure. He also owns three titles, an NFL MVP and claim to the great season of any qb ever. His carrer numbers are first ballot hof level. What is it about the system that makes all the possible?
- Tom Brady has had THREE offensive coordinators since he started playing. Charlie Wiess, Josh McDaniel's and now Matt Patricia. None of these "systems" are the same. You assumption of one system is wrong.
- Explain the patriots system to me. What attributes does it have to make Brady as great as he is? I know what the Patriots "system" consists of, and it has nothing to do with a special offensive way of doing things. A curl route is a curl route dude, the terminology is all that separates "systems".
- Do you think Manning and Montana are system qb's? Manning has played in the same offensive system with the same coordinator for his entire career. Bill Walsh's west coast offense is regarded as the most successful system ever.
Hey how about we compare Brady's first full season with the Pats to Cassel's......Its only fair right??....Anyway...Brady 7 losses, Cassel 5 losses....Cassel is not as good as a quarter back as Brady, but still managed a 11-5 season go figure....lol
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Belichick is regarded as the best coach in football, hands down. Even his biggest critics respect his ability and you cannot argue with his success. To be 9-2 with a team as young as it is right now is amazing.
Say what you want, but I wouldn't want any other coach in charge of the team I root for.
Thank you for admitting what I am trying to make the point of...I have never said Brady was a "bad QB" but he is a product of the coaching....
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If Brady had won his last Super Bowl to go 4-0, he'd be in the conversation with Montana. That loss to the Giants took a lot of luster away. Brady needs to win two more to be the best ever, and I don't think he will.
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Hey how about we compare Brady's first full season with the Pats to Cassel's......Its only fair right??....Anyway...Brady 7 losses, Cassel 5 losses....Cassel is not as good as a quarter back as Brady, but still managed a 11-5 season go figure....lol
Aka, I lose the argument because I don't really know what I'm talking about because I don't even know what this so called system I keep talking about consists of.
When you feel like proving me wrong you can answer the following:
Clearly Brady is better than Cassel. Your statement of Brady being a "system quarterback" is bunk, and while I present evidence of this fact over and over, you continue to make the same statement with evidence to support your claim.
Lets make this simple, I will state facts and you refute them point by point:
-Tom Brady threw 50 td's vs 8 int's in 2007 with a 115% qb rating , leading his team to a 16-0 regular season. Matt Cassel threw 16 td's vs 16 int's with the exact same team and coaches. The ONLY difference was the qb. If there was a "system" Cassel should have at least been able to duplicate Bradys rookie season where he threw 18td's vs 12 int's with 85% rating.
-Tom Brady has won 2 superbowl MVP's based upon big plays he made under pressure. He also owns three titles, an NFL MVP and claim to the great season of any qb ever. His carrer numbers are first ballot hof level. What is it about the system that makes all the possible?
- Tom Brady has had THREE offensive coordinators since he started playing. Charlie Wiess, Josh McDaniel's and now Matt Patricia. None of these "systems" are the same. You assumption of one system is wrong.
- Explain the patriots system to me. What attributes does it have to make Brady as great as he is? I know what the Patriots "system" consists of, and it has nothing to do with a special offensive way of doing things. A curl route is a curl route dude, the terminology is all that separates "systems".
- Do you think Manning and Montana are system qb's? Manning has played in the same offensive system with the same coordinator for his entire career. Bill Walsh's west coast offense is regarded as the most successful system ever.
Thank you for admitting what I am trying to make the point of...I have never said Brady was a "bad QB" but he is a product of the coaching....
No - no that's not what I did at all. God, I'm trying to be patient here. No one is saying that you are saying that Brady is a bad qb (wtf are you getting that from)?
Answer the questions above, or admit that you don't know what you are talking about when you say Brady's "system" lets him succeed. Belichick does not need to explain how things work...Brady leads the offensive film meetings, lol. Belichicks "system" has nothing to do with offensive schemes that are special or different. I know what the system consists off, so I'll let you explain why it makes Brady successful, ha-ha.
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Several quarterbacks are going to finish with better career stats than Montana. But Joe was clutch when it mattered most.
If I had to choose one qb to win a big game, I'm going with Joe.
•Holds six Super Bowl passing records:
1.Highest career passer rating: 127.8
2.Most career passes completed: 83
3.Most consecutive completions: 13
4.Most career passing yards: 1,142
5.Most passing yards in one Super Bowl: 357
6.Most career touchdown passes: 11
•Holds four Playoff passing records:
1.Most career passes attempted: 734
2.Most career passes completed: 460
3.Most career passing yards: 5,772
4.Most career touchdown passes: 45
If you pitted a prime Montana against a prime Brady(without clutch kicker) Joe would take it hands down...
This.
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This.
Yes, currently, Montana is better..and to me, the best QB ever.
If you compare their careers year by year, Brady has better numbers. If Brady wins another title, I think you have to strongly consider him to overtake Montana.
The kicker comment is asinine. Pretty sure Montana had guys like Jerry Rice, and the architect of the west coast offense helping him out. All the greats have good coaches and pieces.
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2007 Brady is the real Brady. One notch ahead of Payton Manning. Anyone who watches tapes of Brady and what he did in 2007 knows of what he is capable at any given time. Truthfully in some regards he's held back by the system he is asked to run. Some of the offensive play calling is fucking retarded and Payton Manning doesn't have to deal with the same BS. But Brady is a Bob Chick company man till the end. And because so, he will probably end up with 2 or 3 more titles than the gun slinger that is known as Payton and it will be because of Bill B.
Bill knows Best ;)
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Yes, currently, Montana is better..and to me, the best QB ever.
If you compare their careers year by year, Brady has better numbers. If Brady wins another title, I think you have to strongly consider him to overtake Montana.
The kicker comment is asinine. Pretty sure Montana had guys like Jerry Rice, and the architect of the west coast offense helping him out. All the greats have good coaches and pieces.
Montana never had that superb team that Brady has... Amazing players in almost EVERY skill position every year?
Belicheck wins games with 9 starting Defensive players... The guy is an evil genius. The year that the pats won 11 games without Brady shows that the team wins games, not Brady.
I know you're on New England's nuts man... I get it... I'm not hating on them at all, but you have to admit that overall, the TEAM is much better than the TEAM that Montana had around him during his big wins.
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Aka, I lose the argument because I don't really know what I'm talking about because I don't even know what this so called system I keep talking about consists of.
Lets make this simple, I will state facts and you refute them point by point:-Tom Brady threw 50 td's vs 8 int's in 2007 with a 115% qb rating , leading his team to a 16-0 regular season. Matt Cassel threw 16 td's vs 16 int's with the exact same team and coaches. The ONLY difference was the qb. If there was a "system" Cassel should have at least been able to duplicate Bradys rookie season where he threw 18td's vs 12 int's with 85% rating.
yeah right. i guess you forgot that literally 1/3 of the team that brady had the year before was missing when cassel was there.
thanks for coming out, homer.
next.
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Montana never had that superb team that Brady has... Amazing players in almost EVERY skill position every year?
Belicheck wins games with 9 starting Defensive players... The guy is an evil genius. The year that the pats won 11 games without Brady shows that the team wins games, not Brady.
I know you're on New England's nuts man... I get it... I'm not hating on them at all, but you have to admit that overall, the TEAM is much better than the TEAM that Montana had around him during his big wins.
LOL!!! Aside from 2007. please list the AMAZING skill position players at every position. That is one of the worst comments I have seen thus far.
The year prior to 2008, Brady took the same team to 16-0 and threw 50 td's to 8 int's. There was a MASSIVE difference in success between 2007 and 2008, proving Brady has a huge effect on the team.
This year is a great example of why you're homer comment/argument is ignorant. The 2010 Pats are 9-2 with one of the youngest/worst statistical defenses in the NFL and Brady throwing to three rookies and no name wr's. There is an undrafted free agent running that ball. The reason they are winning is because Brady is putting up insane numbers and scoring tons of points.
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Montana never had that superb team that Brady has... Amazing players in almost EVERY skill position every year?
Belicheck wins games with 9 starting Defensive players... The guy is an evil genius. The year that the pats won 11 games without Brady shows that the team wins games, not Brady.
I know you're on New England's nuts man... I get it... I'm not hating on them at all, but you have to admit that overall, the TEAM is much better than the TEAM that Montana had around him during his big wins.
Montana probably would have had two more SB's with a prime Bill B couching. However in the end so will Brady
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yeah right. i guess you forgot that literally 1/3 of the team that brady had the year before was missing when cassel was there.
thanks for coming out, homer.
next.
Please list all the missing players as opposed to the year before. Since we are comparing offensive performance, it will mean little, as the full compliment of offensive players were there.
Brady threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% passer rating. Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's. Brady won 18 games and scored what would have been the game winner in the sb had the defense done their job. How much more of a difference would you like, pal?
This year is another great example of why Brady is great. MVP type numbers throwing to 2 rookie tight ends, a rookie wr, an old Deion Branch, Welker and an undrafted free agent as a running back. Two if his best linemen are on ir... Kevin Faulk is on ir and his defense is one of the youngest in the NFL.
You can't run with me, dude. You all call me a homer, but you can't refute my arguments with actual points or stats; it's general insults and propaganda because you don't know any better.
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LOL!!! Aside from 2007. please list the AMAZING skill position players at every position. That is one of the worst comments I have seen thus far.
The year prior to 2008, Brady took the same team to 16-0 and threw 50 td's to 8 int's. There was a MASSIVE difference in success between 2007 and 2008, proving Brady has a huge effect on the team.
This year is a great example of why you're homer comment/argument is ignorant. The 2010 Pats are 9-2 with one of the youngest/worst statistical defenses in the NFL and Brady throwing to three rookies and no name wr's. There is an undrafted free agent running that ball. The reason they are winning is because Brady is putting up insane numbers and scoring tons of points.
It shows that Belicheck is an evil genius... Just like I said. When you can take 9 rookie defense starters and win games, there's definitely a system that's winnineg games.
You're insane if you think otherwise.
You look at guys who fly under the radar and you say they aren't amazing, when I say they are.... Welker has always been one of the top 10 receivers in the league and he's shown he still is.
Hernandez averages over 12 yards a catch... Those are great numbers.
McCourty is possibly the rookie of the year on the other side of the ball and Tate is definitely nothing to sneeze at on special teams.
Like I said, Belicheck is the reason for the winning... he finds guys that fit and he uses them.
Again, if it's so much Brady, why did Cassle win 11 games with them, he'll be lucky if he wins 8 in KC.
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Montana probably would have had two more SB's with a prime Bill B couching. However in the end so will Brady
So now Bill Walsh was a shitty coach? LMAO!
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So now Bill Walsh was a shitty coach? LMAO!
You think he's better than Bill B? LMAO. Not even fucking close. Bill is winning with alot more Parody in the league. Walsh's west coast offense at the time was basically unstoppable because people didn't know how to stop it. The game is much more complexed now. Like I said, Bill B would have easily gave Montana two more wins.
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So now Bill Walsh was a shitty coach? LMAO!
Not taking anything away from him, but NE is the only real Dynasty over the past 10 years, so Belicheck is definitely some kind of Evil Genius.
Every year, people have to worry about the Pats.... Even Pittsburgh doesn't have cred like that.
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It shows that Belicheck is an evil genius... Just like I said. When you can take 9 rookie defense starters and win games, there's definitely a system that's winnineg games.
You're insane if you think otherwise.
You look at guys who fly under the radar and you say they aren't amazing, when I say they are.... Welker has always been one of the top 10 receivers in the league and he's shown he still is.
Hernandez averages over 12 yards a catch... Those are great numbers.
McCourty is possibly the rookie of the year on the other side of the ball and Tate is definitely nothing to sneeze at on special teams.
Like I said, Belicheck is the reason for the winning... he finds guys that fit and he uses them.
Again, if it's so much Brady, why did Cassle win 11 games with them, he'll be lucky if he wins 8 in KC.
Dude, the defense is not winning games right now! They are among the worst in the NFL statistically. Their only saving grace is the turnovers that are generating. The Patriots offense is winning games because they are averaging 30 points per game. I just explained this to you and it is a fact. You're right the patriots d has some exciting young guys who will be very good when they learn, but right now they are giving up a TON of yards and points.
Welker was never amazing until he started playing with Brady, that is another fact. Please list all the amazing players at every skill position that Brady had prior to 2007. Shit, list them aside from Welker and Moss in 2007! You're simply making things up...Brady has always been applauded for doing a lot with guys off the scrap heap. he went to the 2006 afccg with Reche Caldwell as a number one. Wtf is Reche Caldwell. You cant name amazing players at every skill position prior to 2007, because they simply didn't exist, period.
Yes, Belichick is a huge reason for the pats success, but Brady is just as important as well.
Again, in 2007 Brady won 18 games, threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% rating. The next year Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's and won 11 games with pretty much the same team. That is a huge difference.
Cassel is having a good season in KC.
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You think he is better than Bill B? LMAO. Not even fucking close.
No, dude, I think Bill is better, but acting as if Montana's guy was only average is fucking ludicrous. Bill Walsh was one of the greatest offensive coaches ever, lol.
I've had season tickets to the pats for over 15 years. Bill is one of the bet to ever do it...Bradt as well...that's why they win.
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Dude, the defense is not winning games right now! They are among the worst in the NFL statistically. Their only saving grace is the turnovers that are generating. The Patriots offense is winning games because they are averaging 30 points per game. I just explained this to you and it is a fact. You're right the patriots d has some exciting young guys who will be very good when they learn, but right now they are giving up a TON of yards and points.
Welker was never amazing until he started playing with Brady, that is another fact. Please list all the amazing players at every skill position that Brady had prior to 2007. Shit, list them aside from Welker and Moss in 2007! You're simply making things up...Brady has always been applauded for doing a lot with guys off the scrap heap. he went to the 2006 afccg with Reche Caldwell as a number one. Wtf is Reche Caldwell. You cant name amazing players at every skill position prior to 2007, because they simply didn't exist, period.
Yes, Belichick is a huge reason for the pats success, but Brady is just as important as well.
Again, in 2007 Brady won 18 games, threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% rating. The next year Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's and won 11 games with pretty much the same team. That is a huge difference.
Cassel is having a good season in KC.
actually Welker was never good/great until he started playing with Moss and now Branch. He would do nothing if he was/is the Key receiver. Lets KIR
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Not taking anything away from him, but NE is the only real Dynasty over the past 10 years, so Belicheck is definitely some kind of Evil Genius.
Every year, people have to worry about the Pats.... Even Pittsburgh doesn't have cred like that.
Of course he is...he's amazing. All I'm saying is that Brady is very important to the pats success as well.
When Bledsoe was the qb, the Pats didn't excel like they did when Brady came in.
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actually Welker was never good/great until he started playing with Moss and now Branch
He was pretty good in Miami, just not great. Branch is not even close to the threat that Moss was, though.
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No, dude, I think Bill is better, but acting as if Montana's guy was only average is fucking ludicrous. Bill Walsh was one of the greatest offensive coaches ever, lol.
I've had season tickets to the pats for over 15 years. Bill is one of the bet to ever do it...Bradt as well...that's why they win.
Answer me this, why is it that you think I said Bill Walsh was no good because I said Bill B would have given the team 2 more wins? Thats fucking retarded. EVeryone knows how good Bill Walsh was. But he isn't in the league of Bill B.
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Dude, the defense is not winning games right now! They are among the worst in the NFL statistically. Their only saving grace is the turnovers that are generating. The Patriots offense is winning games because they are averaging 30 points per game. I just explained this to you and it is a fact. You're right the patriots d has some exciting young guys who will be very good when they learn, but right now they are giving up a TON of yards and points.
Welker was never amazing until he started playing with Brady, that is another fact. Please list all the amazing players at every skill position that Brady had prior to 2007. Shit, list them aside from Welker and Moss in 2007! You're simply making things up...Brady has always been applauded for doing a lot with guys off the scrap heap. he went to the 2006 afccg with Reche Caldwell as a number one. Wtf is Reche Caldwell. You cant name amazing players at every skill position prior to 2007, because they simply didn't exist, period.
Yes, Belichick is a huge reason for the pats success, but Brady is just as important as well.
Again, in 2007 Brady won 18 games, threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% rating. The next year Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's and won 11 games with pretty much the same team. That is a huge difference.
Cassel is having a good season in KC.
Do you hear yourself? Turnovers? That's DEFENSE man...
Dude... in 2007 he had Stallworth and Gaffney... both starters on most teams.
Mauroney and Faulk are both above average players on most teams and it's only because of the way that NE is always runningback by proxy that their numbers weren't higher.
I think you're just smoking crack man... Seriously, there is no way you can say that the NE teams of the past 8 years overall are not better than most of the 49ers on average from 80-88.
He was pretty good in Miami, just not great. Branch is not even close to the threat that Moss was, though.
The system in NE is better for Welker, that's all there is to it.
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He was pretty good in Miami, just not great. Branch is not even close to the threat that Moss was, though.
If he was the number one receiver for the Pats, he wouldn't do shit either. Everyone in the world luvs Wes, but lets KIR(keep it Real)
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If he was the number one receiver for the Pats, he wouldn't do shit either. Everyone in the world luvs Wes, but lets KIR(keep it Real)
I think he's one of the best run after catch guys in the game... plus his hands are some of the best in the league.
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I think he's one of the best run after catch guys in the game... plus his hands are some of the best in the league.
I don't disagree. But imop its because most defensives can't key up on him. The Pats are in a very good position with there receiving core. Edelman although hurt most of the year has basically been held back. This guy is not that far off from Welker. And its only because who they have around them
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Do you hear yourself? Turnovers? That's DEFENSE man...
Dude... in 2007 he had Stallworth and Gaffney... both starters on most teams.
Mauroney and Faulk are both above average players on most teams and it's only because of the way that NE is always runningback by proxy that their numbers weren't higher.
I think you're just smoking crack man... Seriously, there is no way you can say that the NE teams of the past 8 years overall are not better than most of the 49ers on average from 80-88.
The system in NE is better for Welker, that's all there is to it.
It's not defense, man. It's having some up and coming playmakers, but as a whole, having a pretty poor defense overall. The Patriots defense is among the worst in the NFL right now. Again, the Pats are winning because they are scoring 30 ppg, period.
So now Donte Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney are AMAZING skill position players, lol. Jabar Gaffney is average at best! Stallworth was cut from the pats because he never did anything. Look at his numbers. Maroney is average at best (lost his job to a ufda and has done jack shit in Denver - just like he did in NE) and Faulk is a third down back. He's good, but he's not AMAZING. Again, your statement of Brady always having AMAZING skill position players is false, plain and simple. In fact the only AMAZING players Brady has ever had are Welker and Moss. Prior to 2007 he was winning titles with the likes of Deoin Branch who has never even had a 1000 yard season. He's good, but far from AMAZING.
Just curious....explain the NE system to me.
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Dug up an old thread...
I think it is now fairly certain that Manning is/was more important to Colts than Brady ever is/will be for NE.
Most Valuable Player for his team: Payton Manning
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OK, let's change the topic into soccer now..... 8)
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Dug up an old thread...
I think it is now fairly certain that Manning is/was more important to Colts than Brady ever is/will be for NE.
Most Valuable Player for his team: Payton Manning
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LOL good find
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The Colts gave up before the season began. :-\
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The Colts gave up before the season began. :-\
X2
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When was the last time the Patriots won a playoff game? This team gets hyped up more than any other team yet they've won nothing recently. It's akin to the DAllas Cowboys getting hyped up. They've done absolute shit since their dominating run in the 90s(thanks to Hershel Walker trade)....the Arizona Cardinals are more accomplished than the Cowfags.
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so funny and so true
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When was the last time the Patriots won a playoff game? This team gets hyped up more than any other team yet they've won nothing recently. It's akin to the DAllas Cowboys getting hyped up. They've done absolute shit since their dominating run in the 90s(thanks to Hershel Walker trade)....the Arizona Cardinals are more accomplished than the Cowfags.
They win a ton of games every year thats why. They are one of the best franchises in pro sports. People also forget that the Pats went 11-5 without Brady because they had Cassel. Matt Cassel made the fucking Pro-bowl for the chiefs last year. The CHIEFS.........
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Dug up an old thread...
I think it is now fairly certain that Manning is/was more important to Colts than Brady ever is/will be for NE.
Most Valuable Player for his team: Payton Manning
Possibly, but the fix has always been in with the Colts the day Peyton couldn't play. That's a fact for anyone watching the Colt games. The fact that the Pats let the Colts score 3 TD's in the 4th quarter shows that Bill B. might even be in on the BIG FIX. If Peyton gets traded to New Englands division, then its safe to say that the NFL wanted to get the most out of the Brady/Peyton match up in their twilight years. And who can blame them ;)
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Possibly, but the fix has always been in with the Colts the day Peyton couldn't play. That's a fact for anyone watching the Colt games. The fact that the Pats let the Colts score 3 TD's in the 4th quarter shows that Bill B. might even be in on the BIG FIX. If Peyton gets traded to New Englands division, then its safe to say that the NFL wanted to get the most out of the Brady/Peyton match up in their twilight years. And who can blame them ;)
Peyton's dad is a fucking shark. He knows the the Colts aren't going to go anywhere now that his son is aoubt to wrap up his career over the next few years. And New England's sports media was pitching a pants tent over Peyton Manning signing autographs at Gillette stadium last week. Its as if they were told(by the NFL) to go gaga over Peyton...If Peyton gets brought in to the Jets, its a 110% fixed scenario.
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This thread is sort of a toss up. I love Montana, grew up watching him play, saw him get the short end of the stick when Young was brought on and then he lost his job and ships out to KC.
Brady, nobody saw the guy coming. During the combine he wasn't exactly starting rumors/fires and making teams scramble for him (pun intended). You look at him now, he has probably more time in the pocket than anyone else in the league. He's as cool as can be back there. He's broken certain records and won Super Bowls.
Manning, guy plays a different game than the other two. Look at his no-huddle offense. Look at how his team hasn't won a single game without him at the helm. The team has gone through (off the top of my head) 3 QB's this year trying to replace him just to win a single game let alone save any sort of resemblance to the team pre-Manning.
Warner...I don't know if it's because I'm a Montana/Brady guy or not, but I've never like him. From Day One I just never cared for his style of play. He won two Super Bowls for two different teams that really didn't put up the numbers or play a better game than his teams, I just can't find a reason in my mind that I like the guy. I can't say for sure, but I just didn't like his game.
Best of all time, I would still go with Montana. Just based on sheer impact the guy has had on nearly every kid who watched him grow up, and he's Brady's influence too. Brady would be the successor to Cool Joe but till his career is done and the final tally is in, I'm still putting my $$$ on Montana.
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This thread is sort of a toss up. I love Montana, grew up watching him play, saw him get the short end of the stick when Young was brought on and then he lost his job and ships out to KC.
Brady, nobody saw the guy coming. During the combine he wasn't exactly starting rumors/fires and making teams scramble for him (pun intended). You look at him now, he has probably more time in the pocket than anyone else in the league. He's as cool as can be back there. He's broken certain records and won Super Bowls.
Manning, guy plays a different game than the other two. Look at his no-huddle offense. Look at how his team hasn't won a single game without him at the helm. The team has gone through (off the top of my head) 3 QB's this year trying to replace him just to win a single game let alone save any sort of resemblance to the team pre-Manning.
Warner...I don't know if it's because I'm a Montana/Brady guy or not, but I've never like him. From Day One I just never cared for his style of play. He won two Super Bowls for two different teams that really didn't put up the numbers or play a better game than his teams, I just can't find a reason in my mind that I like the guy. I can't say for sure, but I just didn't like his game.
Best of all time, I would still go with Montana. Just based on sheer impact the guy has had on nearly every kid who watched him grow up, and he's Brady's influence too. Brady would be the successor to Cool Joe but till his career is done and the final tally is in, I'm still putting my $$$ on Montana.
I agree with Brady having ice in his veins in the pocket. But I think Montana at his prime in a Bill B system today would have given New England a min/of 5 super bowls already. Montana was just that good. If Peyton played for New England, I honestly think that New England wouldn't have a single superbowl. I just don't think that Peyton's personality would have jived with Bill B's system. There would have been a massive ego crash between the two. And its obvious with what is going on with the Colts now that the Peyton family are total douchebags. Bill B would have told Peytons dad to get the fuck out of the stadium and don't come back.
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I agree with Brady having ice in his veins in the pocket. But I think Montana at his prime in a Bill B system today would have given New England a min/of 5 super bowls already. Montana was just that good. If Peyton played for New England, I honestly think that New England wouldn't have a single superbowl. I just don't think that Peyton's personality would have jived with Bill B's system. There would have been a massive ego crash between the two. And its obvious with what is going on with the Colts now that the Peyton family are total douchebags. Bill B would have told Peytons dad to get the fuck out of the stadium and don't come back.
However with all that said, Peyton is deep inside the head of Bill B. Bill obviously pitches a pants tent for Peyton.
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This thread is sort of a toss up. I love Montana, grew up watching him play, saw him get the short end of the stick when Young was brought on and then he lost his job and ships out to KC.
Brady, nobody saw the guy coming. During the combine he wasn't exactly starting rumors/fires and making teams scramble for him (pun intended). You look at him now, he has probably more time in the pocket than anyone else in the league. He's as cool as can be back there. He's broken certain records and won Super Bowls.
Manning, guy plays a different game than the other two. Look at his no-huddle offense. Look at how his team hasn't won a single game without him at the helm. The team has gone through (off the top of my head) 3 QB's this year trying to replace him just to win a single game let alone save any sort of resemblance to the team pre-Manning.
Warner...I don't know if it's because I'm a Montana/Brady guy or not, but I've never like him. From Day One I just never cared for his style of play. He won two Super Bowls for two different teams that really didn't put up the numbers or play a better game than his teams, I just can't find a reason in my mind that I like the guy. I can't say for sure, but I just didn't like his game.
Best of all time, I would still go with Montana. Just based on sheer impact the guy has had on nearly every kid who watched him grow up, and he's Brady's influence too. Brady would be the successor to Cool Joe but till his career is done and the final tally is in, I'm still putting my $$$ on Montana.
Warner only won 1 superbowl... In St. Louis.
He took that team back to the superbowl and lost, then took the Cards to the superbowl and also lost.
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Brady is a Boss. I hate him and I hate Bill Bellichickenshit and I hate the Pats but you have to respect what THEY have accomplished. The Pats are a great team. With the Colts, Peyton Manning IS the team.
If Brady was out for the year do the Pats lose EVERY game? No, they don't. And no, the Colt's aren't throwing the season. There is too much at stake for the players. They aren't going to make themselves look like dickless losers in order to help the owner get a draft pick. There is absolutley no way that is happening.
If Brady was drafted by Cleveland instead of New England what would his career look like? Manning is a machine and it doesn't matter where he is or who he's throwing to. Brady is not the type of QB that is that good that he can succeed and win in any situation. I believe Manning is. They are both among the greatest of all time but in my opinion Manning is better.
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Warner only won 1 superbowl... In St. Louis.
He took that team back to the superbowl and lost, then took the Cards to the superbowl and also lost.
You're right...my mistake. I was typing T.U.M...Typing Under the influence of Montana. :P
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Montana & Elway.
End of Thred
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Brady is clearly better than Manning, and has been for a while.
But he's not better than Montana.
agreed, Montana is the best ever.
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Brady is a Boss. I hate him and I hate Bill Bellichickenshit and I hate the Pats but you have to respect what THEY have accomplished. The Pats are a great team. With the Colts, Peyton Manning IS the team.
If Brady was out for the year do the Pats lose EVERY game? No, they don't. And no, the Colt's aren't throwing the season. There is too much at stake for the players. They aren't going to make themselves look like dickless losers in order to help the owner get a draft pick. There is absolutley no way that is happening.
If Brady was drafted by Cleveland instead of New England what would his career look like? Manning is a machine and it doesn't matter where he is or who he's throwing to. Brady is not the type of QB that is that good that he can succeed and win in any situation. I believe Manning is. They are both among the greatest of all time but in my opinion Manning is better.
I hate when people say this about Brady. The guy has played with avg receivers/runningbacks (minus moss, Dillon) for most of his career. If you put him on the Colts all these years when they had Edge, Harrison, Wayne, Clark etc.... he might have even better numbers. I guarantee the Browns would be in the playoff hunt this year if they had a qb like Brady. I watch every game the Pats play, and it seems that the offense flows the best when they use no-huddle! They should try to do it as much as possible.
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agreed, Montana is the best ever.
Disagreed Joe Namath best ever.
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Brady is a Boss. I hate him and I hate Bill Bellichickenshit and I hate the Pats but you have to respect what THEY have accomplished. The Pats are a great team. With the Colts, Peyton Manning IS the team.
If Brady was out for the year do the Pats lose EVERY game? No, they don't. And no, the Colt's aren't throwing the season. There is too much at stake for the players. They aren't going to make themselves look like dickless losers in order to help the owner get a draft pick. There is absolutley no way that is happening.
If Brady was drafted by Cleveland instead of New England what would his career look like? Manning is a machine and it doesn't matter where he is or who he's throwing to. Brady is not the type of QB that is that good that he can succeed and win in any situation. I believe Manning is. They are both among the greatest of all time but in my opinion Manning is better.
I agree.. Manning is the best QB to play the game. He has single handily change the way a offensive is ran. Brady is a big cry baby. Any qb can succeed in belicheck system, look at Matt Cassel Belicheck is all about building stats. Plus bradys best years was with Randy Moss..... he is a nobody according to u brady loves. Hardly not.
also Drew Brees is way better than Fag Brady!!!!
Who Dat
!!!
Wining superbowls and playoffs is a TEAM effort. Look at Big Ben and all the rings he is going to get... would u consider him one of the greatest qb's...... no
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Football is much more complicated and competitive now than it was during Montana's Era.
No it isn't.
Niggs... ::)
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8)
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The greatest quarterback on the NFL's greatest franchise. The most fans, the highest net worth, and EIGHT Superbowl appearances.
How 'bout dem Cowboys! ;D
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Disagree, Joe Namath is the best drunk ever.
Fixed
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The greatest quarterback on the NFL's greatest franchise. The most fans, the highest net worth, and EIGHT Superbowl appearances.
How 'bout dem Cowboys! ;D
Its been thrown around that Jerry Jones is going to really try to throw the kitchen sick at the Colts to get Manning when the Colts draft luck.
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I agree.. Manning is the best QB to play the game. He has single handily change the way a offensive is ran. Brady is a big cry baby. Any qb can succeed in belicheck system, look at Matt Cassel Belicheck is all about building stats. Plus bradys best years was with Randy Moss..... he is a nobody according to u brady loves. Hardly not.
also Drew Brees is way better than Fag Brady!!!!
Who Dat
!!!
Wining superbowls and playoffs is a TEAM effort. Look at Big Ben and all the rings he is going to get... would u consider him one of the greatest qb's...... no
Brees better than Brady??!! What the fuck have you been smoking??
Brady won 3 SB's with a bunch of nobodies and Moss is the best reciever he's ever gotten. THey are winning this year with a bunch of nobodies if you consider Hernandez and Gronkoski pro bowlers.
You obviously know nothing about football if and all credibility goes out comparing the saints. Fuck that team. bet you never followed them until they started winning ::)
Rodgers > Brees
Guys arent giving Cassell enough credit, hes pretty decent. Made a crap team like the chiefs pretty good until he got hurt and was a pro bowler I believe. Gurantee if brees went to NE with the crop of recievers and players he'll go nowhere.
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The greatest quarterback on the NFL's greatest franchise. The most fans, the highest net worth, and EIGHT Superbowl appearances.
How 'bout dem Cowboys! ;D
They were fun to watch! Now if they can start winning and being consistent that would put spark back into the franchise.
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:)
I challenge anyone to argue that...
JOHNNY U>
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Gurantee if brees went to NE with the crop of recievers and players he'll go nowhere.
Don't see how you can say that... The guy was great in SD and took NO to a superbowl win.
The guy gets it done nomatter where he is.
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Roethlisberger has better numbers than Brady, true story. look it up.
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Joe Namath threw 173 TDs and 220 interceptions and had a career completion percentage of 50.1%. Never understood why he's considered this all-time great.
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Can't wait to get a big ass Pizza tomorrow afternoon and watch my Redskins get their asses kicked by Tom Brady! :-\
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Don't see how you can say that... The guy was great in SD and took NO to a superbowl win.
The guy gets it done nomatter where he is.
Hmmmm, no, as good as he is he wouldn't have taken NE to the SB with the crop of receivers they have and where did SD go with him again???
Besides the comparisons are between brees and Brady. Do you agree he is better than Brady??
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Current NFL
Brady
P manning
And then the rest
Before Rodgers finishes up his career and if he stays consistent and healthy he will be among best we'll see and time will tell.
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Hmmmm, no, as good as he is he wouldn't have taken NE to the SB with the crop of receivers they have and where did SD go with him again???
Besides the comparisons are between brees and Brady. Do you agree he is better than Brady??
SD had playoff appearances with him.
Some division titles... Brees is a very very VERY good quarterback.
If you are asking me if I think he's as good as Brady and Manning? Then I have to say yes.
If you are asking me if I think he's better? Then I have to say no.
I think all 3 of those guys are amazing talents and you could swap any of them around and you would have pretty much the same outcomes.
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SD had play off appearances with rivers and a best of 14-2.....
Brees is good and the question being asked was is he better than Brady? And no he is not, but "RAM" thinks so ::)
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That was heat breaking, redskins actually had a shot!
Brady got bitchEd out by his coach pretty bad though LOL
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Rex turned into a beast these couple of games even though they lost
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That was heat breaking, redskins actually had a shot!
Brady got bitchEd out by his coach pretty bad though LOL
First off, i laugh at the Redskins.
(https://p.twimg.com/AgaZDJNCEAAVplX.jpg:large)
That OC better be lucky that Brady did not tell him to go and get his ass a Diet Coke.
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That hit they threw a flag on with the hit to Brady while he was sliding was such a BS call(Redskin/Pats game today). No wonder so many points get scored these days. You can barely even touch a reciever and God forbid you even give a glancing blow to the QB. Not a Skins fan BTW, that call was just utter crap.
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Brady got bitchEd out by his coach pretty bad though LOL
That was great to watch and then later they had to separate the twp. And then the next minute after that they were sitting side by side & analyzing the play.
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Its really getting sad watching Brady literally carry the team on his back every week! The Redskins average under 17 points a game, yet the defense made Grossman look like Montana out there.
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Roethlisberger has better numbers than Brady, true story. look it up.
he does and winning pct has to be close ,,ben is a beast and dosen't play the game pretty,but gets job done and last few yrs has opened up passing game big time and throwing 300 plus yrd game each sunday,its a little easier now with the way some of these defense's sit on the pass nowadays to throw 30/40 times but i'll take it.
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That was great to watch and then later they had to separate the twp. And then the next minute after that they were sitting side by side & analyzing the play.
Yes...what we saw there was Tom Brady thinking he was going to blame his young new receiver for not "going to get the ball". It was awesome seeing his coach(any coach) jumping in and telling the superstar exactly what was what. Brady is awesome for sure. But he needs to be held accountable for obvious mistakes. +1 for Bill O'B for putting him in his place and Tom backing down later on when he knew he was being called on it.
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8) 3:00.