Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: First Blood on January 31, 2011, 07:02:43 PM
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How do you think a natural bodybuilder should train?
upper/lower body with 4 workouts per week? what would you suggest to someone who simply doesn't have the mental or physical energy to train half of the body in one workout? what alternatives are there?
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ghey style training (GST)
1:19 is KEY to winning whatevr pissing contest you can get into without those DAMN JUICEHEADS AROUND >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Even though I'm not on the gas, I am still a big fan of steroids....
....mostly because I hate Natural Competitors
I know I go on and on about it but really- most Natural Competitors are pompous assholes......they are just like those straight edge assholes
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I'm no natural training guru, or any guru for that matter. :D
But what's the goal of this natural bodybuilder? Just looking more muscular or actually competing in natural bb shows without drugs (insanity)?
But generally I would suggest forgetting about hitting every muscle directly each week. For example, go in one day and think, "today I'm going to squat" and then if there's still energy do some assistance exercises.
Compound movements. Squats, deads, some kind of press, rows. That's your whole body trained pretty much, even if not directly. If you can work those in each week, hit them hard, and progress, you get better results than the natural guy who works his muscles from every angle.
For those OCD guys who need a specific program, Lyle McDonald has a sweet 4 day program.
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Even though I'm not on the gas, I am still a big fan of steroids....
....mostly because I hate Natural Competitors
I know I go on and on about it but really- most Natural Competitors are pompous assholes......they are just like those straight edge assholes
You don't hate me Johnny , do you ?
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I'm no natural training guru, or any guru for that matter. :D
But what's the goal of this natural bodybuilder? Just looking more muscular or actually competing in natural bb shows without drugs (insanity)?
But generally I would suggest forgetting about hitting every muscle directly each week. For example, go in one day and think, "today I'm going to squat" and then if there's still energy do some assistance exercises.
Compound movements. Squats, deads, some kind of press, rows. That's your whole body trained pretty much, even if not directly. If you can work those in each week, hit them hard, and progress, you get better results than the natural guy who works his muscles from every angle.
For those OCD guys who need a specific program, Lyle McDonald has a sweet 4 day program.
Whatever you are, you know your stuff lol. The goal is to add as much mass as possible (as a natural). :)
Yeah I checked out his 4 day routine but the fact is that I can't simply train all of my upper body in one workout...I can do basically one or two heavy lifts then I'm destroyed. and everything else has to be pretty light. I don't look forward to workouts knowing I have to do 2 chest exercises, two for back, someting for delts, and maybe a couple of sets for biceps and triceps. Even if the volume isnt't high it just destroys me mentally and everything after the first 1-2 exercises is totally half-assed lol.
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Whatever you are, you know your stuff lol. The goal is to add as much mass as possible (as a natural). :)
Yeah I checked out his 4 day routine but the fact is that I can't simply train all of my upper body in one workout...I can do basically one or two heavy lifts then I'm destroyed. and everything else has to be pretty light. I don't look forward to workouts knowing I have to do 2 chest exercises, two for back, someting for delts, and maybe a couple of sets for biceps and triceps. Even if the volume isnt't high it just destroys me mentally and everything after the first 1-2 exercises is totally half-assed lol.
I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. :D
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.
Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. :D
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=364784.0;attach=400716;image
Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. :D
Thats not eugene levy
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I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. :D
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.
Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. :D
LOL at the pic name ;D
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Even though I'm not on the gas, I am still a big fan of steroids....
....mostly because I hate Natural Competitors
I know I go on and on about it but really- most Natural Competitors are pompous assholes......they are just like those straight edge assholes
Johhny's favorite things: Vicoden, Winstrol, anavar, powerbars, xanaz, cocaine, equipoise, XTC, protein bars, Oxycodone
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LOL at the pic name ;D
x2 :D
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I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. :D
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.
Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. :D
yeah, I have read some of his stuff but he seems abit mentally unstable lol.
I have always been impressed with people who can do like 6-7 different exercises in one workout.
if i do heavy bench presses then i'm mentally and physically spent and my second chest press has to be something like db presses in the 10-15 rep range. I can't do any heavy shoulder presses after that, only something like side raises and then one triceps exercise. so that's like 4 exercises. one heavy the rest is lighter shit.
I must have some kind of attention deficit disorder. But I have like 4 exercises in me then im fucked.
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stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure. lift heavy. very heavy. never go to failure. focus on the basics, use good form, master the basics using heavy weight. never go to failure. use HEAVY WEIGHT, GOOD FORM. never go to failure. bench press, dead lifts, shoulder press, deadlifts, some kind of squat, barbell rows, dumbell side laterals or upright rows, dumbell or barbell curls, some kind of tricep movement. calves/hams/abs. all heavy weight. all good form. hit every muscle every 2-4 days. dont go to failure. increase weight every couple workouts.
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How do you think a natural bodybuilder should train?
upper/lower body with 4 workouts per week? what would you suggest to someone who simply doesn't have the mental or physical energy to train half of the body in one workout? what alternatives are there?
I think you should train your own way. I train the same on or off the drugs.
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if i do heavy bench presses then i'm mentally and physically spent and my second chest press has to be something like db presses in the 10-15 rep range. I can't do any heavy shoulder presses after that,[\quote]
So simply don't do another pressing exercise that day.
My $NZ0.02
Buy yourself a copy of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Learn the exercises' form, then read up on periodisation (also in the back of Starting Strength).then try his variation on the whole-body, 3-day-a-week 5x5.
I agree with this:
stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure. lift heavy. very heavy. never go to failure. focus on the basics, use good form, master the basics using heavy weight. never go to failure. use HEAVY WEIGHT, GOOD FORM. never go to failure. bench press, dead lifts, shoulder press, deadlifts, some kind of squat, barbell rows[/qoute]
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Focus on The Big 5. 1. Squat/Leg Press 2. Bench/Smith/Machine Press 3. Row 4. Overhead Press 5. Chins or Pulldowns. If you do a Push/Pull/Legs split, then you have 1 or 2 major exercises per day.
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Johhny's favorite things: Vicoden, Winstrol, anavar, powerbars, xanaz, cocaine, equipoise, XTC, protein bars, Oxycodone
I am willing to bet 100 bucks Johnny would respond very well to AAS.
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stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure.
Do you go 2 reps shy of failure on things like tricep pushdowns, concentration curls and db laterals? Some exercises are way more draining than others... the little ones like say rope pushdowns there's no problem going to failure.
Relative beginners should go to failure frequently IMO. You never really learn to strain hard if you never really challenge yourself. The more advanced you are, the harder you can go, and stopping 2 reps shy is still hard training.
I am willing to bet 100 bucks Johnny would respond very well to AAS.
Johnny is very very familiar with hormones. He knows them inside and out, believe me. ;) :D
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Do you go 2 reps shy of failure on things like tricep pushdowns, concentration curls and db laterals? Some exercises are way more draining than others... the little ones like say rope pushdowns there's no problem going to failure.
Relative beginners should go to failure frequently IMO. You never really learn to strain hard if you never really challenge yourself. The more advanced you are, the harder you can go, and stopping 2 reps shy is still hard training.
Johnny is very very familiar with hormones. He knows them inside and out, believe me. ;) :D
i dont do concentration curls ;D
i sometimes go to failure by accident, gte caught up in a set. but for the most part i try to stay t least 2 reps shy of failure on every exercise, small muscle/big muscle alike. when i go to failure i just dont make any progress, unless i ony do one set and really really push it to the brink. and then i only gain a little size, but no strength. any more than one set to failure, any more heavy sets on top of that, i lose strenngth and size.
beginners can make gains doing anything. .
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So if you don't train to failure then how is it possible to stimulate muscle growth? P.S. The stimulus for training with heavier and heavier training loads IS training til muscular failure. If you don't train hard enough then you won't stimulate muscular growth.
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i dont do concentration curls ;D
i sometimes go to failure by accident, gte caught up in a set. but for the most part i try to stay t least 2 reps shy of failure on every exercise, small muscle/big muscle alike. when i go to failure i just dont make any progress, unless i ony do one set and really really push it to the brink. and then i only gain a little size, but no strength. any more than one set to failure, any more heavy sets on top of that, i lose strenngth and size.
beginners can make gains doing anything. .
I have a hard time believing you always go 2 reps shy of failure on things like bench presses. :D
I think you mentioned benching over 400? From what I've seen, that doesn't happen without MANY failed reps. :D Come on, you don't even need a spotter if you go 2 reps shy but you do use a spotter, right? ??? :D
Beginners make gains on anything, initially. But there's tons of scared nerds who are still squatting 185 half-range after 3 years because they can't push themselves, scared of getting stuck at the bottom and so on. :D There's some "natural athletes", maybe with prior sporting experience who can train hard, yet not to failure, but many do need this phase... learning to push for all they're worth. :D
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Johnny is very very familiar with hormones. He knows them inside and out, believe me. ;) :D
lol...I get it
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I am willing to bet 100 bucks Johnny would respond very well to AAS.
he has used steroids...he has used very low dosages and short cycles..He probably favors winstrol, anavar, primobolan
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he has used steroids...he has used very low dosages and short cycles..He probably favors winstrol, anavar, primobolan
the last cycle i did was a year ago and I quit after a couple of weeks because I was afraid of losing "aesthtics" and I was like "if it isn't broke" don't fix it. So, it had nothing to do with "morals" or anything like that.
Plus, I didn't care for the UG lab my dealer got his stuff from
fortunately, I made my money back selling it to someone else.
*Adds "steroid dealer" to list of dubious jobs*
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the last cycle i did was a year ago and I quit after a couple of weeks because I was afraid of losing "aesthtics" and I was like "if it isn't broke" don't fix it. So, it had nothing to do with "morals" or anything like that.
Plus, I didn't care for the UG lab my dealer got his stuff from
fortunately, I made my money back selling it to someone else.
*Adds "steroid dealer" to list of dubious jobs*
What was the cycle look like
50mg winstrol day
50 mg anavar
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I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. :D
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.
Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. :D
It's been many years since I saw a pic of him. Well, at least he finally lost some weight.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=364784.0;attach=400716;image)
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Hey VanB, since we have your attention, how exactly do you do a glucose test on HGH?
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stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure. lift heavy. very heavy. never go to failure. focus on the basics, use good form, master the basics using heavy weight. never go to failure. use HEAVY WEIGHT, GOOD FORM. never go to failure. bench press, dead lifts, shoulder press, deadlifts, some kind of squat, barbell rows, dumbell side laterals or upright rows, dumbell or barbell curls, some kind of tricep movement. calves/hams/abs. all heavy weight. all good form. hit every muscle every 2-4 days. dont go to failure. increase weight every couple workouts.
I don't train to failure all the time, I will do it on a set here and there but that's not really the issue. I simply can't train half of my body effectively in one session, so it becomes difficult to train everything twice a week. I could do some kind of 3-way split but then I would have to be in the gym 6 days per week (if the goal is to train everything twice a week) which is too much for me.
If I stay 2+ reps from failure all the time, nothing happens. I have tried it.
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I have a hard time believing you always go 2 reps shy of failure on things like bench presses. :D
I think you mentioned benching over 400? From what I've seen, that doesn't happen without MANY failed reps. :D Come on, you don't even need a spotter if you go 2 reps shy but you do use a spotter, right? ??? :D
Beginners make gains on anything, initially. But there's tons of scared nerds who are still squatting 185 half-range after 3 years because they can't push themselves, scared of getting stuck at the bottom and so on. :D There's some "natural athletes", maybe with prior sporting experience who can train hard, yet not to failure, but many do need this phase... learning to push for all they're worth. :D
exactly, there seems to be a disconnect between 'theory' and what really is done in the gym (among those who get results).
I been doing alot of reading lately and I could pretend that I'm an expert just by repeating everything I have read but there is a difference between true applied knowledge and having alot information floating around in your head.
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So if you don't train to failure then how is it possible to stimulate muscle growth? P.S. The stimulus for training with heavier and heavier training loads IS training til muscular failure. If you don't train hard enough then you won't stimulate muscular growth.
You don't need to train to failure to stimulate muscle growth or to progress. It may help or it may not. But failure in itself is not the adaptation trigger (that is just HIT nonsense). :o
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Ok, so what is the stimulus for muscular growth and adaptation? I say that it is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie. Progressive Overload. So what is the best way to train which will allow one to train with heavier and heavier training loads?
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Ok, so what is the stimulus for muscular growth and adaptation? I say that it is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie. Progressive Overload. So what is the best way to train which will allow one to train with heavier and heavier training loads?
Yeah....but aren't you a twink ?
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Natural trainers with a total mind/muscle connection should focus on total muscle confusion.
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dedicated natural trainers need one thing..a gun to off yourself....How can you dedicate so much of your life knowing you will still suck. I made it very clear for myself that if I didnt like the way I looked after my most recent cycle,to give up bbing. Luckily I finally am gaining well once I started training harder..thank god :) Honestly unless your on growth hormone I really do believe that even if your loaded to the gill on AAS you have to train hard as natties even for enhanced lifters..... GH changes the ballgame cause it makes your body alot more sensitive to weightraining so you can train like a pussy.
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How can you dedicate so much of your life knowing you will still suck.
Health concerns and money, not knowing any sources or caring to look for them, etc. Plus, competing is obviously a joke, but you can still look good (and to the typical person who doesn't sit around staring at ronnie's glutes all day, REALLY GOOD) as a natural, if you've got the body for it. Plus, what's the alternative? Being a fat slob? Looking like a crossfitter?
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If we're talking about competition though, I agree. Anyone who seriously thinks about competing as a true natural (meaning no hormones ::)) needs to kill himself.
Also, First Blood, I'm wondering... are you thinking of giving up your dreams of mutation?
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dedicated natural trainers need one thing..a gun to off yourself...
Anyone who seriously thinks about competing as a true natural (meaning no hormones ::)) needs to kill himself.
Why the hate guys ???
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except che
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except che
:)
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Like alot of folks are saying, stick to compound movements. Incline Bench for chest, Military Press for shoulders, Dealifts for back, Squats & Stiff Leggs for legs, etc. Going to failure isn't necessary but atleast come close. Try 8 working sets for major body parts, 6 for minor, and 4 for traps and forearms. Over-training is for real. It's an uphill battle as a natural, but, progress can still happen. I've been training for almost 13 years and this year I've put on 7 lbs this year. Now, the last 7 years prior I only put a total of 10 lbs on... So keep trucking.
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Good points c ;) I'm not sure if even many of the folks here realize THE HUUUUUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE btw 165 @ 15% to 165 @ sub-7. One can be the exact same bodyweight, but look 1000% better by being much, much leaner. And yes, the difference btw 15% and 7% is ENORMOUS
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You don't need to train to failure to stimulate muscle growth or to progress. It may help or it may not. But failure in itself is not the adaptation trigger (that is just HIT nonsense). :o
What kind of training do you do?
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Like alot of folks are saying, stick to compound movements. Incline Bench for chest, Military Press for shoulders, Dealifts for back, Squats & Stiff Leggs for legs, etc. Going to failure isn't necessary but atleast come close. Try 8 working sets for major body parts, 6 for minor, and 4 for traps and forearms. Over-training is for real. It's an uphill battle as a natural, but, progress can still happen. I've been training for almost 13 years and this year I've put on 7 lbs this year. Now, the last 7 years prior I only put a total of 10 lbs on... So keep trucking.
Gaining weight in and of itself is meaningless. The vast majority of Americans get heavier and heavier every year without ever picking up a weight. How has your body composition change? Were those 7 pounds actually muscle?
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Health concerns and money, not knowing any sources or caring to look for them, etc. Plus, competing is obviously a joke, but you can still look good (and to the typical person who doesn't sit around staring at ronnie's glutes all day, REALLY GOOD) as a natural, if you've got the body for it. Plus, what's the alternative? Being a fat slob? Looking like a crossfitter?
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If we're talking about competition though, I agree. Anyone who seriously thinks about competing as a true natural (meaning no hormones ::)) needs to kill himself.
Also, First Blood, I'm wondering... are you thinking of giving up your dreams of mutation?
urge to mutate still exists :D, but it's not worth it for me. I will just stick with my 3 meals per day and 3 lifting sessions per week, I don't think it's worth (nor necessary for a natural such as me) dedicating more time than that.
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Ok, so what is the stimulus for muscular growth and adaptation? I say that it is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie. Progressive Overload. So what is the best way to train which will allow one to train with heavier and heavier training loads?
sorry didn't mean to come off as an asshole ;) I just mean that failure is not a must although for sure it can be beneficial in some cases. also some people will tolerate more failure training than others.
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Good points c ;) I'm not sure if even many of the folks here realize THE HUUUUUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE btw 165 @ 15% to 165 @ sub-7. One can be the exact same bodyweight, but look 1000% better by being much, much leaner. And yes, the difference btw 15% and 7% is ENORMOUS
exactly!!!
but as a natural you will never be lean and big ;)....although some guys naturally have a huge frame.
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Gaining weight in and of itself is meaningless. The vast majority of Americans get heavier and heavier every year without ever picking up a weight. How has your body composition change? Were those 7 pounds actually muscle?
You're right on, gaining weight is not always a positive thing. But, in my case, about 6 of the 7 lbs were quality. I'm in the Marine Corps so cardio is huge. I'm in the process of getting out and because of it I've been able to scale back the intensity of my cardio which I'm sure plays a part in the muscle gain. 17 lbs in 7 years is far from a miracle but it's all about consistentcy.
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What kind of training do you do?
I train 3 days per week. I'm gonna start doing what van bilderass mentioned; focusing more on a couple of muscle groups and maintain the rest then switch to focusing on two other muscles groups and maintain the rest etc. That way you avoid being in the gym every day lol...and still be able to train 1-2 muscle groups twice per week. so that's my plan!! 8)
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You're right on, gaining weight is not always a positive thing. But, in my case, about 6 of the 7 lbs were quality. I'm in the Marine Corps so cardio is huge. I'm in the process of getting out and because of it I've been able to scale back the intensity of my cardio which I'm sure plays a part in the muscle gain. 17 lbs in 7 years is far from a miracle but it's all about consistentcy.
Since you're a Marine, I will not question you. Huge fan of the leather necks. Bad asses. All the way bad asses.
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Since you're a Marine, I will not question you. Huge fan of the leather necks. Bad asses. All the way bad asses.
Thanks for the props. Maybe now that I'm getting out maybe I can keep up the growth spurt.
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How do you think a natural bodybuilder should train?
Lift the weights, put them down.
It's really not that fucking hard. ::)
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You ain't no asshole 1st, in fact you are one of the few cool dudes here on this site ;) And I agree wit yo plan man, focus on 1 or at the most 2 parts at a time, and then maintain the rest. In fact I do this myself, and I find that it's best to keep the focus in short 3 or 4 week mini-cycles.