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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Roger Bacon on February 28, 2011, 04:06:51 PM
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I don't understand why there need is to be laws on the books regarding collective bargaining and the way unions are managed, and dealt with? Couldn't groups of employees organize, strike, and negotiate on their own, (the ones that were interested) wihhout some formal laws in place? I mean aren't people free to band together and say "fuck you that's not a good deal" to their employeer without all these collective bargaining laws?
nope. without the laws they would be fired in short order. Unless they pulled it at a time where unemployment was at its lowest, but that might just buy some of them a little more time before being fired.
Both sides have a bad side on this issue. Several here point out the problems with unions and many points are true. At the same time, I really don't think we want to see things return to the way it was before. If the unions were gone tomorrow, it wouldn't take long before business heads back to their glory days of exploiting every ounce of life from their workers and leaving them nothing more than modern slaves.
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I don't understand why there need is to be laws on the books regarding collective bargaining and the way unions are managed, and dealt with? Couldn't groups of employees organize, strike, and negotiate on their own, (the ones that were interested) wihhout some formal laws in place? I mean aren't people free to band together and say "fuck you that's not a good deal" to their employeer without all these collective bargaining laws?
And we could still be working 16 hours a day for pennies with child labor still being the norm. Understand that this is how the rich get richer and the poor poorer. Maybe we should bring back slavery too....that way I wouldn't have to pay someone to do those things I can't or don't wish to do for myself; things like cleaning the toilet and mowing the lawn.
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We have thousands of laws on the books as well as dozens of agencies now dealing w that. Its more fear mongering by unions.
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And we could still be working 16 hours a day for pennies with child labor still being the norm. Understand that this is how the rich get richer and the poor poorer. Maybe we should bring back slavery too....that way I wouldn't have to pay someone to do those things I can't or don't wish to do for myself; things like cleaning the toilet and mowing the lawn.
And how exactly is that going to happen? Because unions disappear, take a guess at what percentage actually unionized? I don't see anyone here bitching about private sector unions, only public sector unions.
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And how exactly is that going to happen? Because unions disappear, take a guess at what percentage actually unionized? I don't see anyone here bitching about private sector unions, only public sector unions.
Because it's a major issue right now. There's been plenty of bitching about "private sector unions" here. Not that such bitches are totally a bad thing.
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Because it's a major issue right now. There's been plenty of bitching about "private sector unions" here. Not that such bitches are totally a bad thing.
The path of destruction that private sector unions speaks for itself, I was going to say atleast they are on the tax payer tit, but hell we had the GM bailout >:(
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In my mind the two are not even remotely related. I see no reason at all for publicx sector unions. None at all.
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Oh, I see and didn't really consider that. They would just fire the people that decided to strike and rehire people that would do the job for less until we were back to the way it was during the industrial revolution?
This is why laws are needed?
Again - we have reams of laws on the books as well as duplicative agencies policing these abuses as well as redress in the courts.
The public sector unions are nothing by a money laundering operation for democrats. They serve no purpose whatsoever other than to rape the taxpayer and get democrats elected.
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In my mind the two are not even remotely related. I see no reason at all for publicx sector unions. None at all.
you've suggested there is a role for them in the past, was that just sweet talk? :D
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you've suggested there is a role for them in the past, was that just sweet talk? :D
Never. I can see trades unions, but not public sector unions at all. Public sector unions are worse than parasites, they are like locusts and vampires sucking the taxpayer dry.
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Oh, I see and didn't really consider that. They would just fire the people that decided to strike and rehire people that would do the job for less until we were back to the way it was during the industrial revolution?
This is why laws are needed?
It's hard for me to side with lawmakers or say why laws are needed when the fact is a great portion of the legislation passed in this country is unneeded and often complete bullshit. The one thing that I do know is that a corporation has the fucking mentality of a virus. If they see an opening they'll jump on it, if the opening is not there they'll work on creating it. A corporation does not have a conscience about these things. There is nothing that's ultimately off limits for them. Once one obstruction is out of the way it's a whole new wall of things for them to work at. They won't just stand there and say, oh great, this is what we want. They'll keep going and going and going. There's got to be some freaking middleground. It wouldn't be wise to just give them an open field to play. If we did, I have no doubt that at some future point they would weed us all back to a state of two classes: the poor working their asses to death and the rich.
They're screwing Americans anyway with all of this outsourcing and globalization (like a virus). All of this stuff including this issue is one more planned item on a list of things designed to bring us down and create some one world unified whatever lol...
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Never. I can see trades unions, but not public sector unions at all. Public sector unions are worse than parasites, they are like locusts and vampires sucking the taxpayer dry.
Sorry, my bust, I read your post wrong. What you just said goes with what your post above said and what you've said in the past. I just fucked up and read it wrong. Sorry bro.
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Private sector unions serve a purpose and are subject to what the market can bear and have market forces dictating pricing.
Public sector unions are a function of what can be promised by politicians funded by unions, but poaid for by the taxpayers. Its a different and wholly unfair dynamic at play.
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Private sector unions serve a purpose and are subject to what the market can bear and have market forces dictating pricing.
Public sector unions are a function of what can be promised by politicians funded by unions, but poaid for by the taxpayers. Its a different and wholly unfair dynamic at play.
not sure that's where the OP was going with his question as he didn't mention this being about the current public union issues but I hear ya. I think a lot of people are seeing the problems caused in this area.
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In my mind the two are not even remotely related. I see no reason at all for publicx sector unions. None at all.
Well then, I guess it is obvious you have never been a public employee....like say a school bus driver....most of whom work part time and make about $12 a hour in Oregon. Oh and part time means you drive at 6:00 a.m. in the morning get a long unpaid mid morning break and then drive again in the afternoon until about 5:00 p.m. If you are lucky you'll get an extra trip, like taking a bunch of rowdy football players to their away game and then bringing them back when they are either in a foul mood because they lost or losing it because they won. You might think the benefits are good until you discover that because you work parttime, you are not eligible for benefits. Well, you do get summers off, unpaid. You'll need another job for the summer because school employees do not qualify for unemployment during school breaks.
Or maybe you rather be a school custodian. Again most postions are partime and start at around $12 an hour. You won't mind cleaning a urinal that some kid took a shit in, will you? When you get done vacuuming about 10,000 sq. ft. of carpet in about three hours, you can go out and police the grounds where homeless folks have smashed their beer bottles, left their used condoms for you and pissed on the school steps.
I could describe each classified school employees job for you....maybe you'll find one you like. Regardless of which one it is though, don't expect to get rich doing it. As for job security, you can forget that too. With budget cuts, may school districts are looking for volunteers to replace the folks they laid off last month. Care to volunteer?
And this is with public sector unions. Imagine how good it would be without them?
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It sounds like you're a pathetic, underpaid, overworked bus driver who never gets laid and has an iron lung.
Private unions should be entitled to CB. Public ones should not when it comes to benefits and other entitlements. End of story.
Bargaining against the American taxpayer and shaking down politicians in exchange for votes is a repugnant practice that the dems have been getting away with for years. What's the end result? Kids who can't read, teachers who couldn't teach a monkey how to take a shit walking away with 100k/ year pensions, a public sector that has grown exponentially while the private sector has shrunk and some of the biggest states in America going broke.
This is not a class warfare issue, this is not a workers rights issue. Plain and simple it is whether or not America can afford to destroy itself at the expense of 12% of the workforce; most of which are lazy, braindead slobs who are underworked and overpaid.
Cops, EMS workers and firefighters are the only public workers that I have any sympathy for in terms of CB because they save lives and can dismantle the entire locality if they decide to strike. Teachers, garbage collectors, bureaucrats and other public worker slime should shut up and be happy for what they have.
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It sounds like you're a pathetic, underpaid, overworked bus driver who never gets laid and has an iron lung.
Private unions should be entitled to CB. Public ones should not when it comes to benefits and other entitlements. End of story.
Bargaining against the American taxpayer and shaking down politicians in exchange for votes is a repugnant practice that the dems have been getting away with for years. What's the end result? Kids who can't read, teachers who couldn't teach a monkey how to take a shit walking away with 100k/ year pensions, a public sector that has grown exponentially while the private sector has shrunk and some of the biggest states in America going broke.
This is not a class warfare issue, this is not a workers rights issue. Plain and simple it is whether or not America can afford to destroy itself at the expense of 12% of the workforce; most of which are lazy, braindead slobs who are underworked and overpaid.
Cops, EMS workers and firefighters are the only public workers that I have any sympathy for in terms of CB because they save lives and can dismantle the entire locality if they decide to strike. Teachers, garbage collectors, bureaucrats and other public worker slime should shut up and be happy for what they have.
Although I was never a school bus driver, I am not on an iron lung and I do get laid (which has nothing to do with anything here), let's talk about school bus drivers and teachers for minute. Like you say, police, EMS workers and firefighters save lives. Likewise, parents entrust their most precious gift, their children to school bus drivers, cooks, teachers and other school employees 190 days a year for anywhere from 7 to 10 hours a day. They expect these underpaid folks will safely transport, feed, teach and otherwise provide a safe environment to their children....in their absence. Before you undervalue and judge school employees, you should spend a day at school yourself. Walk in their shoes before you devalue their importance.
Public employees are not responsible for the financial crisis we are all experiencing, the banking/financial industry and much of corporate America is....and yes, with the aid of politicians who are beholding to them and their lobbyist. Public sector unions and employees may go out a stump for a candidate, but they cannot match corporations when in comes to campaign donations. Money talks.
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Although I was never a school bus driver, I am not on an iron lung and I do get laid (which has nothing to do with anything here), let's talk about school bus drivers and teachers for minute. Like you say, police, EMS workers and firefighters save lives. Likewise, parents entrust their most precious gift, their children to school bus drivers, cooks, teachers and other school employees 190 days a year for anywhere from 7 to 10 hours a day. They expect these underpaid folks will safely transport, feed, teach and otherwise provide a safe environment to their children....in their absence. Before you undervalue and judge school employees, you should spend a day at school yourself. Walk in their shoes before you devalue their importance.
Public employees are not responsible for the financial crisis we are all experiencing, the banking/financial industry and much of corporate America is....and yes, with the aid of politicians who are beholding to them and their lobbyist. Public sector unions and employees may go out a stump for a candidate, but they cannot match corporations when in comes to campaign donations. Money talks.
Not sure, but I don't think GW's trying to devalue their importance (in fact I think one of his family members is an educator if I remember), but the point is public unions should not be competing against corporations for political clout.
Equitable treatment, an honest wage, safe work place etc., are all fine. But harboring incompetence, demanding little if any contributions to their benefits, and all that crap is what collective bargaining has often become.
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why should bus drivers get paid for time they arent working prime?
I think bus drivers are somewhat different as they do like you said have a more tangible responsibility for the welfare of children. But cooks and janitors dont need to be making 30k a year bro sorry...
if you think they are entitled to make that then you really shouldnt bitch at all about superintendents making 100k a year...
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Where I live janitors make over 100k.
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Where I live janitors make over 100k.
source :o
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Look it up.
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i did 33,000 far cry from 100,000
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Although I was never a school bus driver, I am not on an iron lung and I do get laid (which has nothing to do with anything here), let's talk about school bus drivers and teachers for minute. Like you say, police, EMS workers and firefighters save lives. Likewise, parents entrust their most precious gift, their children to school bus drivers, cooks, teachers and other school employees 190 days a year for anywhere from 7 to 10 hours a day. They expect these underpaid folks will safely transport, feed, teach and otherwise provide a safe environment to their children....in their absence. Before you undervalue and judge school employees, you should spend a day at school yourself. Walk in their shoes before you devalue their importance.
Public employees are not responsible for the financial crisis we are all experiencing, the banking/financial industry and much of corporate America is....and yes, with the aid of politicians who are beholding to them and their lobbyist. Public sector unions and employees may go out a stump for a candidate, but they cannot match corporations when in comes to campaign donations. Money talks.
My mother was a public school teacher and principal so believe me I know 10x about what teachers go through than you do. Skip has it right. You have it wrong and you are also confusing the issues because you have no clue what your talking about. Public employees make their money because their salaries are taken from my paycheck, your paycheck and every other tax payers paycheck. I don't give a fuck about what corporations make or donate to politicians because they make their money through the marketplace in the form of goods and services that people pay for with their disposable income.
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My mother was a public school teacher and principal so believe me I know 10x about what teachers go through than you do. Skip has it right. You have it wrong and you are also confusing the issues because you have no clue what your talking about. Public employees make their money because their salaries are taken from my paycheck, your paycheck and every other tax payers paycheck. I don't give a fuck about what corporations make or donate to politicians because they make their money through the marketplace in the form of goods and services that people pay for with their disposable income.
I seriously doubt you know ten times what I know. Perhaps you mom forgot to teach some of the hard facts. I am a retired public school employee and a union leader. I know a few things too.
You are right, everyone who pays taxes, including your mom and I who were apparently both public employees. So, in effect she and I payed a minuscule portion of our own wages and benefits (maybe my taxes kept you in diapers)....seems a bit ironic, doesn't it. Corporations pay taxes into the general fund, except if they avoid paying taxes through various loopholes in our taxing system. The general fund pays public employees salaries and benefits among other obligations. If you think it is fair that corporations not pay taxes and all of us working smucks, like you, me and you mom foot the bill for them, then you mom really didn't do much to educate you.
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Public workers are tax takers not tax makers.
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Public workers are tax takers not tax makers.
The tax makers, as you put it, are the elected government officials, Representatives, Senators, Governors, the President. If you don't like what their doing, vote them out office. All workers, public and private pay taxes. The middle class is the mainstay of taxes in this country.
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The tax makers, as you put it, are the elected government officials, Representatives, Senators, Governors, the President. If you don't like what their doing, vote them out office. All workers, public and private pay taxes. The middle class is the mainstay of taxes in this country.
govt officials, reps, senators, pres etc...also pay taxes so whats your point?
less tax income for the federal govt means less to pay public employees which means they should contribute more...reason they dont contribute at all and have lush deals?
public unions...
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govt officials, reps, senators, pres etc...also pay taxes so whats your point?
less tax income for the federal govt means less to pay public employees which means they should contribute more...reason they dont contribute at all and have lush deals?
public unions...
No offense intended, but you are simply too dense to bother having a conversation about this topic with. Obviously you have issues with public employees. That's your right no matter how misguided your thinking is. I will say this, if you think public employment is so "lush" you should give it a try. Then come back and we can have this conversation. Perhaps you'll be more credible.
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Public unions should be banned and are only a creature of executive order by JFK.
Even FDR said they should not exist and have a conflict of interest with the needs of the public and taxpayers.
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No offense intended, but you are simply too dense to bother having a conversation about this topic with. Obviously you have issues with public employees. That's your right no matter how misguided your thinking is. I will say this, if you think public employment is so "lush" you should give it a try. Then come back and we can have this conversation. Perhaps you'll be more credible.
hate to bust your ignorant talking point with anybody who is against unions but my father is a letter carrier for the post office...
I have no problem with public employees, I simply have a problem with ppl who want free stuff and idiot who think that bus drivers who work 4 hours a day, janitors and line cooks are supposed to be middle class and then have problems with management making 100k a year
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I seriously doubt you know ten times what I know. Perhaps you mom forgot to teach some of the hard facts. I am a retired public school employee and a union leader. I know a few things too.
You are right, everyone who pays taxes, including your mom and I who were apparently both public employees. So, in effect she and I payed a minuscule portion of our own wages and benefits (maybe my taxes kept you in diapers)....seems a bit ironic, doesn't it. Corporations pay taxes into the general fund, except if they avoid paying taxes through various loopholes in our taxing system. The general fund pays public employees salaries and benefits among other obligations. If you think it is fair that corporations not pay taxes and all of us working smucks, like you, me and you mom foot the bill for them, then you mom really didn't do much to educate you.
And there we hav the typical union attitude. If you can't bully 'em, insult 'em.
And blame someone else while you're at it. It's ok for public unions to play bullshit games because hey, maybe someone else might be doing it too.
Unions are nothing more than a crutch for the substandard.
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hate to bust your ignorant talking point with anybody who is against unions but my father is a letter carrier for the post office...
I have no problem with public employees, I simply have a problem with ppl who want free stuff and idiot who think that bus drivers who work 4 hours a day, janitors and line cooks are supposed to be middle class and then have problems with management making 100k a year
Is you father, the letter carrier making enough money to be considered middle class? Why is that? I mean from an outsiders perspective he just walks or probably drives around and drops mail in people's mailboxes...no big deal. It doesn't take a genius to to that, now does it? If a school cook, custodian or busdriver was lucky enough to work full time, do you think their profession is somehow less valuable than your dad's. Because if you do, it is obvious you have no concept of what these folks do and the responsibilities they have. Perhaps you should have a conversation with your mother about this.
I don't know about how school districts operate where you live, but where I live some administrators clearly get a disproportionate amount of pay and benefits as compared to the rest of the school staff. In fact, there is a huge public outcry because the retiring superintendent in the school district where I live is retiring with a "golden parachute" while the district's revenue has shrunk and they've had to make many program cuts. Here is an article which speaks to how at least some of my neighbors feel about this:
After West Linn-Wilsonville School District Superintendent Roger Woehl ends his decades-long education career in the summer of 2011, taxpayers will hand him a district-funded payout of $70,000; a monthly $500 stipend for four years; health insurance for himself and his wife under Medicare until age 72; and an undisclosed amount from the Oregon Public Employees Retirement System.
With school budgets undergoing more scrutiny from taxpayers, compensation and retirement packages are being questioned more than ever. When the West Linn-Wilsonville School Board this week approved Woehl's final contract, which sets his salary at $132,500, parents zeroed in on a retirement annuity that was bumped up to $30,000. Parents angrily addressed the payment as a "bonus" given during a time of economic turmoil. As published on Oregonlive.com.
"Free stuff," what is that? Where do you live that public employees get free stuff. Where I live the classified and certified school public employees I've known, work for everything they get. They don't get anything for free. However, many of them volunteer their time and money, sometimes on a daily basis to help insure a better education for students. Incidentally, it is against state and federal wage and hour laws to volunteer time at your work place, and yet I know many public employees who do this on a regular basis.
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Is you father, the letter carrier making enough money to be considered middle class? Why is that? I mean from an outsiders perspective he just walks or probably drives around and drops mail in people's mailboxes...no big deal. It doesn't take a genius to to that, now does it? If a school cook, custodian or busdriver was lucky enough to work full time, do you think their profession is somehow less valuable than your dad's. Because if you do, it is obvious you have no concept of what these folks do and the responsibilities they have. Perhaps you should have a conversation with your mother about this.
I agree with you on the not taking a genius but its not quite as easy as you make it out to be.
Just depends bro on individual situation, my family is middle class but my mother works full time as well and there are only 2 kids in my family. If my father was the only source of income then no we wouldnt have been middle class if I had more siblings no we wouldnt have been middle class.
My dad works full time and manditory overtime...sorry bro but you dont deserve to be making 40k a year working part time or in the cafeteria as a server.
I agree with the golden parachute for both public and private managers
bro if you think line cooks and bus drivers should be middle class(lets assume that means at least 40k a year to you) then you shouldnt bitch AT ALL about a super intendent making 132k a year...
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I agree with you on the not taking a genius but its not quite as easy as you make it out to be.
Just depends bro on individual situation, my family is middle class but my mother works full time as well and there are only 2 kids in my family. If my father was the only source of income then no we wouldnt have been middle class if I had more siblings no we wouldnt have been middle class.
My dad works full time and manditory overtime...sorry bro but you dont deserve to be making 40k a year working part time or in the cafeteria as a server.
I agree with the golden parachute for both public and private managers
bro if you think line cooks and bus drivers should be middle class(lets assume that means at least 40k a year to you) then you shouldnt bitch AT ALL about a super intendent making 132k a year...
I could have misstated something I said to you when it comes to folks being middle class, I don't know. The median average income for a male in the U.S. is just under $40K. There are variances for education levels. I have not researched what public employees who work as school bus drivers make on average nationwide. What I can tell you is that a school bus driver in the school district were I worked makes nowhere near $40K a year. They are paid hourly. Even those lucky few who work 8 hrs a day only work about 180 days a year. When I retired the starting wage for a school bus driver was about $12 an hour. Since all the district employees have been taking wage freezes these past two years, it is safe to assume they aren't making much more than that now. That being the case they are making about $17k a year plus benefits. Benefits are around 25 to 30% of wages. This puts their total compensation at around $22K or a little more than half the median average wage for someone whose position requires approximately the same educational level. Custodians and school bus drivers are on the same salary schedule. However, custodians generally work all year. So their annual wage is higher. Cooks make slightly more than minimum wage to start. They also only work when students are in attendance so they make considerably less than either school bus drivers or custodians.
When I retired there were eight steps on the salary schedule. Steps generally equate to annual increases, but not always. Steps are sometimes frozen in bargaining during hard times like these. So, it could take considerably longer to reach the top salary step. A step is about a 4% increase over the previous step. It is safe to assume a person would make about $18 and hour on the top step. This would put their annual income at about $25K which is still far below that median average income.
Before I retired I was a head custodian. I made around 37K a year. Almost the median average income. I was responsible for a fairly large school building and a small crew of custodians. My position was a full time year round position. When I was called in for security breaches, (often in the middle of the night) I was paid overtime plus mileage. However, when I would check on the building on weekends on my own, I didn't seek to be paid because that was my option. Regardless of whether schools were closed due to weather conditions, I worked because it was part of the job responsibilities. In addition to maintaining all the mechanical aspects of the building, ordering supplies and maintaining equipment, I also had daily cleaning responsibilities. On occasion, I supervised students who were doing in house suspension. I drove kids home who missed their bus. Talked kids who had run from school back to school and whatever else the Principal thought necessary. During my time at that school, it was remodeled several times. I was the on site go to person for these remodels. I often stayed or returned to school to help with evening events eventhough I was not paid for this. I am not boasting because many head custodians do what I did, in fact most classified school employees go that extra mile.
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I could have misstated something I said to you when it comes to folks being middle class, I don't know. The median average income for a male in the U.S. is just under $40K. There are variances for education levels. I have not researched what public employees who work as school bus drivers make on average nationwide. What I can tell you is that a school bus driver in the school district were I worked makes nowhere near $40K a year. They are paid hourly. Even those lucky few who work 8 hrs a day only work about 180 days a year. When I retired the starting wage for a school bus driver was about $12 an hour. Since all the district employees have been taking wage freezes these past two years, it is safe to assume they aren't making much more than that now. That being the case they are making about $17k a year plus benefits. Benefits are around 25 to 30% of wages. This puts their total compensation at around $22K or a little more than half the median average wage for someone whose position requires approximately the same educational level. Custodians and school bus drivers are on the same salary schedule. However, custodians generally work all year. So their annual wage is higher. Cooks make slightly more than minimum wage to start. They also only work when students are in attendance so they make considerably less than either school bus drivers or custodians.
bro you either need to start splitting up your novel sized posts or make them smaller with the text box bump i cant comment on all your ish with one post...
LMAO and you think that for a person who works part time 22k is a bad living?
be honest with yourself bro these ppl work PART TIME...they dont deserve a salary wtf is wrong with you? yea they only work 180 days a year what do they do for the rest of the year? if they arent working why should we pay them a full years pay for a half years work? FUCKING SERIOUSLY???
sorry bro yuo dont get paid for hours you dont work...salaried ppl generally end up working way more then 40 hours a week...
what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years worth of pay for a half years worth of work?
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When I retired there were eight steps on the salary schedule. Steps generally equate to annual increases, but not always. Steps are sometimes frozen in bargaining during hard times like these. So, it could take considerably longer to reach the top salary step. A step is about a 4% increase over the previous step. It is safe to assume a person would make about $18 and hour on the top step. This would put their annual income at about $25K which is still far below that median average income.
Before I retired I was a head custodian. I made around 37K a year. Almost the median average income. I was responsible for a fairly large school building and a small crew of custodians. My position was a full time year round position. When I was called in for security breaches, (often in the middle of the night) I was paid overtime plus mileage. However, when I would check on the building on weekends on my own, I didn't seek to be paid because that was my option. Regardless of whether schools were closed due to weather conditions, I worked because it was part of the job responsibilities. In addition to maintaining all the mechanical aspects of the building, ordering supplies and maintaining equipment, I also had daily cleaning responsibilities. On occasion, I supervised students who were doing in house suspension. I drove kids home who missed their bus. Talked kids who had run from school back to school and whatever else the Principal thought necessary. During my time at that school, it was remodeled several times. I was the on site go to person for these remodels. I often stayed or returned to school to help with evening events eventhough I was not paid for this. I am not boasting because many head custodians do what I did, in fact most classified school employees go that extra mile.
25k for a person who works during the school year is a good living if you ask me...lets see thats 180 days correct so lets say 6 months...that equate to just over 4k a month for the months worked...WTF ARE YOU COMPAINING ABOUT???
sorry bro but 37k seems pretty fair for the work your were doing, along with your cush benefits Id say that was more than satisfactory pay for your position...you got milage and overtime...again wtf are you complaining about???
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=369020.0
please go review and respond to this question asked in this thread
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25k for a person who works during the school year is a good living if you ask me...lets see thats 180 days correct so lets say 6 months...that equate to just over 4k a month for the months worked...WTF ARE YOU COMPAINING ABOUT???
sorry bro but 37k seems pretty fair for the work your were doing, along with your cush benefits Id say that was more than satisfactory pay for your position...you got milage and overtime...again wtf are you complaining about???
Actually, its nine months. You did go to school didn't you? How many months were you in school each year? Use your math skills and you will see that 180 days is about 3/4's of 260 days which is full time. Most folks get vacation whether in the public or private sector if the hold full time positions. School employees not working full time are not eligible for vacation time. My vacation time after twenty years of employment was four weeks. This means I only worked 240 days. 180 is exactly 3/4's of 240. That's your math lesson for today.
Don't put words in my mouth. Show me where I was ever complaining about my wages and benefits. I made a choice to work in the job that I did. If I had not liked it, I would have left. I previously had a 20 year career in merchandising for a major department store where I made considerably more money then I made working for the school district. I grew tired of the travel and I would have had to move my family back to a major city such as Los Angeles, San Fransisco or New York eventually. I chose a simpler life and I have no regrets or complaints.
Or did you assume only losers take school district jobs in custodial. Well, it's OK, you aren't alone in your misunderstanding. I don't judge you because of your spelling and grammar even though as a school Principal's son you should be ashamed of your careless writing skills.
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Actually, its nine months. You did go to school didn't you? How many months were you in school each year? Use your math skills and you will see that 180 days is about 3/4's of 260 days which is full time. Most folks get vacation whether in the public or private sector if the hold full time positions. School employees not working full time are not eligible for vacation time. My vacation time after twenty years of employment was four weeks. This means I only worked 240 days. 180 is exactly 3/4's of 240. That's your math lesson for today.
Don't put words in my mouth. Show me where I was ever complaining about my wages and benefits. I made a choice to work in the job that I did. If I had not liked it, I would have left. I previously had a 20 year career in merchandising for a major department store where I made considerably more money then I made working for the school district. I grew tired of the travel and I would have had to move my family back to a major city such as Los Angeles, San Fransisco or New York eventually. I chose a simpler life and I have no regrets or complaints.
Or did you assume only losers take school district jobs in custodial. Well, it's OK, you aren't alone in your misunderstanding. I don't judge you because of your spelling and grammar even though as a school Principal's son you should be ashamed of your careless writing skills.
LOL I assumed in the 180 you included weekends but thats fine well do it over 9 months...that comes out to just over 33k a year if they worked full time.
ILL ASK YOU AGAIN...why do you feel justified and paying someone a full years pay for less than a full years work?
hahah i understand im making you think about shit in a way that goes against your brain washing but dont patronize me man. I have two bachelors and im trying to get into grad school in th fall.
youre so right nobody made you work there...now who is making those ppl who work as bus drivers and cooks work there?
why dont they leave if they dont like it?
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I got a cousin in AZ who is always bitching about making 'only' 45K a year. Then I bring up how they are only working 9 months a year (less actually) thus equating to 60K/year and they get all pissed off.
Teachers unions have fooled even their own peons into their game.
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I got a cousin in AZ who is always bitching about making 'only' 45K a year. Then I bring up how they are only working 9 months a year (less actually) thus equating to 60K/year and they get all pissed off.
Teachers unions have fooled even their own peons into their game.
QFT
If you added up the actual time they "work", the probably make the equivalent of $75 - $125 an hour.
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QFT
If you added up the actual time they "work", the probably make the equivalent of $75 - $125 an hour.
You should become a teacher and see firsthand how much time it takes to do this job before you make outrageous statements about the profession which aren't accurate. Although I was not a teacher, at the school were I worked teachers often put in 12 hr days. They provided classroom supplies out of their own pockets, including bringing in snacks for the kids because some parents are either too lazy or cannot afford to supply them.
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You should become a teacher and see firsthand how much time it takes to do this job before you make outrageous statements about the profession which aren't accurate. Although I was not a teacher, at the school were I worked teachers often put in 12 hr days. They provided classroom supplies out of their own pockets, including bringing in snacks for the kids because some parents are either too lazy or cannot afford to supply them.
I know plenty of "teachers" and as a group I have to say, they are probably one of the least informed grous of people i have ever met.
My dad, who never went to college, probably reads more books, and is more educated on economics, history, politics, and other issues than any 10 group of current teachers sampling combined.
I know two women teachers personally, and have to say, i have met females at the car wash check out with more common sense and connection with reality.
You are barking up the wrong tree if you expect me to side with you on teachers. They are mostly glorified baby sitters at best and need to show results IMHO or be replaced asap. Shit, even the fry guy at Burger King can probably teach the average teacher a thing or two about common sene and reality.
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You should become a teacher and see firsthand how much time it takes to do this job before you make outrageous statements about the profession which aren't accurate. Although I was not a teacher, at the school were I worked teachers often put in 12 hr days. They provided classroom supplies out of their own pockets, including bringing in snacks for the kids because some parents are either too lazy or cannot afford to supply them.
LOL!!! Textbook union talking points. Ya, I'm sure the teachers did all this. ::) Suuuuure a union worker did a 12 hour day. Well, they might have for that time and a half, right?
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LOL!!! Textbook union talking points. Ya, I'm sure the teachers did all this. ::) Suuuuure a union worker did a 12 hour day. Well, they might have for that time and a half, right?
Teachers work in salaried positions, not hourly. There is no time and a half for them. They work whatever hours it takes to get the job done.
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Teachers work in salaried positions, not hourly. There is no time and a half for them. They work whatever hours it takes to get the job done.
as does everyone else who is salaried...I know a number of teachers and yes some do work more than 40 hours others not so much...
ANSWER THIS QUESTION...what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years pay for 9 months of work?
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as does everyone else who is salaried...I know a number of teachers and yes some do work more than 40 hours others not so much...
ANSWER THIS QUESTION...what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years pay for 9 months of work?
bump for an answer to this.
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Not to mention xmas break, easter break, etc.
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as does everyone else who is salaried...I know a number of teachers and yes some do work more than 40 hours others not so much...
ANSWER THIS QUESTION...what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years pay for 9 months of work?
bump for an answer prime...and while youre at it please tell me what rationale you use to justify paying a part time employee full time wages?
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Why, because they DESERVE it goddammit!!! To NOT give the public unions EVERYTHING they want is to be against the working middle class!
All they are trying to do is stay middle class and not live in poverty, and we all know it takes AT LEAST a 10% cost of living raise every year and 3 months off a year to be able to do so.
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Not to mention xmas break, easter break, etc.
You forgot all the "teacher institute" days, still don't have a clue what the fuck they do on those days.
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Why, because they DESERVE it goddammit!!! To NOT give the public unions EVERYTHING they want is to be against the working middle class!
All they are trying to do is stay middle class and not live in poverty, and we all know it takes AT LEAST a 10% cost of living raise every year and 3 months off a year to be able to do so.
Obviously, I mean I children are being taught so well and so much smarter then the rest of the world, oh wait.......
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This needs to be reposted... it's just so spot-on accurate.
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bump for an answer prime...and while youre at it please tell me what rationale you use to justify paying a part time employee full time wages?
Show me when I ever said part time employees should get full time wages?
Apparently in the absence of my interest in playing your game, you decided to make shit up.
It is obvious to me you don't want discussion you just want a forum to blast public employees. I think you can do that just fine without my help.
So bump away. You are wasting your time.
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Show me when I ever said part time employees should get full time wages?
Apparently in the absence of my interest in playing your game, you decided to make shit up.
It is obvious to me you don't want discussion you just want a forum to blast public employees. I think you can do that just fine without my help.
So bump away. You are wasting your time.
Answer the question. Honestly, just answer it.
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This needs to be reposted... it's just so spot-on accurate.
Its pretty good actually
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Show me when I ever said part time employees should get full time wages?
Apparently in the absence of my interest in playing your game, you decided to make shit up.
It is obvious to me you don't want discussion you just want a forum to blast public employees. I think you can do that just fine without my help.
So bump away. You are wasting your time.
youre complaining about part time bus drivers and cooks only making 22k a year...
ok dont answer that then just answer the first question then prime.
what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years pay for 9 months of work?
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ANSWER THIS QUESTION...what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years pay for 9 months of work?
It's actually 10 months of work - they com back a week earlier and stay a week later.
and if you have a career in it, you already know that several weeks of your summer are required for ESe training, re-certification, tech training, etc. Professional service, whatever they call it. You can't just fall off the map on the last day of school then walk up on day 1 and "punch in" like you can at most jobs.
And their pay is also pro-rated for the full year (if they want). In other words, you can opt for "pay me for 10 months then don't give me another check for 10 weeks" - which is what I actually did as a teacher.
Most will opt for "spread it over 26 of the 2-week pay periods so I don't go broke in the summer!" I paid for my summer classes with my $, so I took the $ up front. But that's part of what you tell HR on day 1 of orientation - so they are actually salaried employees for 10 months that often choose to spread it so they can pay the bills.
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It's actually 10 months of work - they com back a week earlier and stay a week later.
and if you have a career in it, you already know that several weeks of your summer are required for ESe training, re-certification, tech training, etc. Professional service, whatever they call it. You can't just fall off the map on the last day of school then walk up on day 1 and "punch in" like you can at most jobs.
And their pay is also pro-rated for the full year (if they want). In other words, you can opt for "pay me for 10 months then don't give me another check for 10 weeks" - which is what I actually did as a teacher.
Most will opt for "spread it over 26 of the 2-week pay periods so I don't go broke in the summer!" I paid for my summer classes with my $, so I took the $ up front. But that's part of what you tell HR on day 1 of orientation - so they are actually salaried employees for 10 months that often choose to spread it so they can pay the bills.
240 you should really go into politics. Your like John Edwards only not as smart, good looking, interesting or acomplished.
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240 you should really go into politics. Your like John Edwards only not as smart, good looking, interesting or acomplished.
I feel that I share Edwards' penchant for willingness to expose my genitals for the video camera, however.
It is the one thing that he and I share. Two Americas. Those who expose their junk, and those who do not.
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youre complaining about part time bus drivers and cooks only making 22k a year...
ok dont answer that then just answer the first question then prime.
what rationale do you use to justify paying someone a years pay for 9 months of work?
When did I "complain" about what cooks, busdrivers or anyone else makes?
240, who is obviously someone who knows shitload more than you do, answered this question for you.
Incidentally, I was at a meeting today where the partimization of postal workers was discussed. At this time the only positions being filled with the USPS are part time positions. And as I told you previously, there are plans to cut Saturday delivery. Your dad may think his job with the post office is secure, but it may not be the case. Hopefully he is close to retirement and can get out before the USPS is completely privatized. They already contract millions of dollars worth of services to UPS. Were you aware of this? Check this out: http://www.usps.com/communications/news/press/2006/pr06_044.htm. This agreement to pay UPS has been recently extended.
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It's actually 10 months of work - they com back a week earlier and stay a week later.
and if you have a career in it, you already know that several weeks of your summer are required for ESe training, re-certification, tech training, etc. Professional service, whatever they call it. You can't just fall off the map on the last day of school then walk up on day 1 and "punch in" like you can at most jobs.
And their pay is also pro-rated for the full year (if they want). In other words, you can opt for "pay me for 10 months then don't give me another check for 10 weeks" - which is what I actually did as a teacher.
Most will opt for "spread it over 26 of the 2-week pay periods so I don't go broke in the summer!" I paid for my summer classes with my $, so I took the $ up front. But that's part of what you tell HR on day 1 of orientation - so they are actually salaried employees for 10 months that often choose to spread it so they can pay the bills.
LOL so you mean you have to have CE? so do tons of other jobs 240...they still dont get paid for time they arent working...
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Check out the article I posted in the other thread about the firefighters in Wisconsin what they pulled.
yeah, and the average taxpayer should feel sympathy for these people? ::) ::)
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When did I "complain" about what cooks, busdrivers or anyone else makes?
240, who is obviously someone who knows shitload more than you do, answered this question for you.
Incidentally, I was at a meeting today where the partimization of postal workers was discussed. At this time the only positions being filled with the USPS are part time positions. And as I told you previously, there are plans to cut Saturday delivery. Your dad may think his job with the post office is secure, but it may not be the case. Hopefully he is close to retirement and can get out before the USPS is completely privatized. They already contract millions of dollars worth of services to UPS. Were you aware of this? Check this out: http://www.usps.com/communications/news/press/2006/pr06_044.htm. This agreement to pay UPS has been recently extended.
LMFAO then wtf have you been bitching about all this time? talking about pay of cooks, custodians and bus drivers then?
goodness gracious
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Check out the article I posted in the other thread about the firefighters in Wisconsin what they pulled.
yeah, and the average taxpayer should feel sympathy for these people? ::) ::)
Records indicate that 11 past and current Executive Board members submitted expense vouchers for fictional meetings between 2002 and 2008, collecting more than $17,000 in mileage and per diems as a result.
so your saying that all the firefighters are the same,don't want to insult you but are you really a lawyer
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And what did they do w the money?
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We have thousands of laws on the books as well as dozens of agencies now dealing w that. Its more fear mongering by unions.
Shouldn't those "agencies" be removed from the government?
It's probably better when the private sector manages it's benefits... Isn't that the Capitalist way?
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Check out the article I posted in the other thread about the firefighters in Wisconsin what they pulled.
yeah, and the average taxpayer should feel sympathy for these people? ::) ::)
Records indicate that 11 past and current Executive Board members submitted expense vouchers for fictional meetings between 2002 and 2008, collecting more than $17,000 in mileage and per diems as a result.
so your saying that all the firefighters are the same,don't want to insult you but are you really a lawyer
so i ask again what does that have to do with all the firefighters in wisconsin ::)
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They stole money from taxpayers and used it to fund pols and to gain advantage for their union. And that definatly goes on all over the place.
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LMFAO then wtf have you been bitching about all this time? talking about pay of cooks, custodians and bus drivers then?
goodness gracious
Bitching is your description....all I have done is state what some cooks, custodians and school bus drivers earn in a particular school district in Oregon. If you think those salaries are too high, then I hate to hear what you think is a fair salary for those jobs. My point was these folks are not getting rich off their wages.
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But the average taxpayer is getting poorer and poorer and forced to pay more taxes to keep this charade going.
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Bitching is your description....all I have done is state what some cooks, custodians and school bus drivers earn in a particular school district in Oregon. If you think those salaries are too high, then I hate to hear what you think is a fair salary for those jobs. My point was these folks are not getting rich off their wages.
I think they are pretty fair for a person who works part time and only 9 months out of the year...
again why do you think a person working part time and/or only for 9 months deserves to get paid the same as ppl who work full time and year round?