Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: tommywishbone on April 05, 2011, 03:10:17 PM
-
Here's a copy of my hospital bill from February 2011 for (left) total hip replacement.
The total is $135,927.70 Yes, that amount is obscene and shows how insanely out of whack US medical care cost have become. I was in the hospital a grand total of 29 - 30 hours. . . hours not days or weeks.
This bill does not include my doctor's fee or his assistants.
Including all pre-op examinations, post-op care (so far) the bill for my hip is slightly over $150,000. The absolute number of hours I have spent with doctors, therapist, radiologist, nurses, pharmacy visits, etc., is 35 -37 hours. Yes, they fixed me.
-
That's insane. I hope you have insurance...most people would have to pay that bill off over a 10yr period :-\
-
That's insane. I hope you have insurance...most people would have to pay that bill off over a 10yr period :-\
obviously you haven't heard how hospitals bill and settle.
one of the guys at my work went in for a work injury and we fought with the hospital for the bill. we ended up telling them "we'll pay you 30% by friday or nothing at all" and they agreed.
those "bills" are just kind of a crapshoot because different companies pay out different percentages. they'll never see anywhere near that money from tommy or his insurance.
-
too many porno films and hospital haircuts?
-
Here's a copy of my hospital bill from February 2011 for (left) total hip replacement.
The total is $135,927.70 Yes, that total amount is obscene and shows how insanely out of whack US medical care cost have become. I was in the hospital a grand total of 29 - 30 hours. . . hours not days.
way to crop out the part of the receipt that read:
Swedish Sponge Baths.................$5,342.28
-
from my mailbag:
hey bay... i wasn't sure who to ask but you seemed like the most knowledgeable. How do i go by stripping/escort/etc for $? I'm an npc competitor and am in good shape 5'7'' 227 (on empty), Any info would be greatly appreciate.
I sent him a cautionary reply and then got the following…
...I'm doing it, like for friend, to make some quick cash. Its for my uncle's surgery (he can't afford it/no insurance) so i need to help him out asap. Hope all is good with you and i'll tell you how it went.
--name withheld
-
;D ;D ;D Too funny!
My little Nephew Jimmy!! Oh no!
-
Here's a copy of my hospital bill from February 2011 for (left) total hip replacement.
The total is $135,927.70 Yes, that total amount is obscene and shows how insanely out of whack US medical care cost have become. I was in the hospital a grand total of 29 - 30 hours. . . hours not days.
The Coach-sponsored GOP budget proposal, just announced today, essentially privatizes Medicare. So, that's a big Fuck You, to you, tommy. ;D
/tax cuts for the wealthy and the defense budget untouched, tho. so coach totally wins on this one.
-
from my mailbag:
hey bay... i wasn't sure who to ask but you seemed like the most knowledgeable. How do i go by stripping/escort/etc for $? I'm an npc competitor and am in good shape 5'7'' 227 (on empty), Any info would be greatly appreciate.
I sent him a cautionary reply and then got the following…
...I'm doing it, like for friend, to make some quick cash. Its for my uncle's surgery (he can't afford it/no insurance) so i need to help him out asap. Hope all is good with you and i'll tell you how it went.
--name withheld
yeah and all the strippers are just doing it to get through college ::)
-
The Coach-sponsored GOP budget proposal, just announced today, essentially privatizes Medicare. So, that's a big Fuck You, to you, tommy. ;D
/tax cuts for the wealthy and the defense budget untouched, tho. so coach totally wins on this one.
Wait? What? I now owe the Coach $135K? OK, I'll pay.
-
you could have gone to mexico and had that done for $2,000, and gotten then dents out your car in the same building while having surgery
-
Wait? What? I now owe the Coach $135K? OK, I'll pay.
Smart move. You don't want no union trouble, bub.
-
No no no, let the government pay for it, its free...well exept the for the extra 25% in taxes we'll all have to pay, other than it's free. Hail Obamacare!
-
Hip of gold.
Do you have insurance or are you already bending over backstage?
-
No no no, let the government pay for it, its free...well exept the for the extra 25% in taxes we'll all have to pay, other than it's free. Hail Obamacare!
Your Fridays on the golf course haven't stopped, the Summers on the boat haven't been affected, nor have your taxes increased. Why do you keep complaining? ???
-
And I want to keep it that way, that we work so we can enjoy what we've earned.
-
Gotta love how much we spend on "defense".
Then try to increase taxes to get public health care passed. ::)
Typical...fuck em' when they're down US health care mentality.
-
Money SHOULD be spent on defence.
-
The Coach please cut off your fingers
-
Canada enjoys free health care and yet I still get paid handsomely
-
Am I right or wrong? if I'm wrong, what am I wrong about?
-
Don't pay it and rent/lease for the rest of your life. No biggie really. Owning shit is over-rated.
-
The Coach is right, poor people should die, it doesn't make personal economic sense to assist them.
-
Money SHOULD be spent on defence.
Seems we are more of an OFFENSE country then a DEFENSIVE county nowadays
-
The Coach is right, poor people should die, it doesn't make personal economic sense to assist them.
lol
whining about taxes ???
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg)
-
I already give to the poor, I don't need someone to steal it from me
-
I already give to the poor, I don't need someone to steal it from me
You haven't lost anything. Anything. And you won't. You're like the spinster, clutching her pearls, worrying she will be raped.
-
I already give to the poor, I don't need someone to steal it from me
"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."
-
You haven't lost anything. Anything. And you won't. You're like the spinster, clutching her pearls, worrying she will be raped.
I paid almost 41% in taxes this year, when this is all said and done with all the federal and state spending, we're going to have to pay for it and you know it.
-
I paid almost 41% in taxes this year, when this is all said and done with all the federal and state spending, we're going to have to pay for it and you know it.
So You say. And you paid how much less under Bush? And how do we know? ::)
-
"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."
Yeah, I get it, I could have very well been that same position not too long ago, but instead of living off the government or asking people for a hand out, I chose to work and figure my own future out.
-
Yeah, I get it, I could have very well been that same position not too long ago, but instead of living off the government or asking people for a hand out, I chose to work and figure my own future out.
Yeah sure thing bro, all poor people should just work they way out of poverty ::)
Imagine for a second you were not born, would you then choose to be born in a society where the differences in class where huge? You could end up a poor kid from the ghetto without a father/mother and a life where few of your friends go to school or have a job.... sure you'd just go the rags to riches route, yeah sure you would ::) you're such a go getter.
Or would you want to live in a society where the lower social classes at least have basic stuff like healthcare?
Baah why am I even bothering
-
Yeah, I get it, I could have very well been that same position not too long ago, but instead of living off the government or asking people for a hand out, I chose to work and figure my own future out.
Uh, Coach. Xerxes' quote is from Adam Smith, the Godfather of free trade, then a champion of economical Liberalism, now political Conservatism. ;)
-
furious blackberry googling ensues in Huntington Beach.
-
The Coach-sponsored GOP budget proposal, just announced today, essentially privatizes Medicare. So, that's a big Fuck You, to you, tommy. ;D
/tax cuts for the wealthy and the defense budget untouched, tho. so coach totally wins on this one.
LOL! No tax cuts for the wealthy. The top 1% income earners still have to pay their measly 38% of the tax revenue the government confiscates from them.
Medicare is a failure. The amount of waste and corruption is obscene. Medicare/Medicade and Social Security are the biggest drain on our country's budget. The government has never run anything and made it better, cheaper and more efficient.
In our country, providing for the national defense is one of the few things authorized by the Constitution. Not providing medical coverage and retirement programs.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png/350px-U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png)
-
Yeah sure thing bro, all poor people should just work they way out of poverty ::)
Imagine for a second you were not born, would you then choose to be born in a society where the differences in class where huge? You could end up a poor kid from the ghetto without a father/mother and a life where few of your friends go to school or have a job.... sure you'd just go the rags to riches route, yeah sure you would ::) you're such a go getter.
Or would you want to live in a society where the lower social classes at least have basic stuff like healthcare?
Baah why am I even bothering
Not everybody in this country has health insurance but EVERYBODY has health care. Even a drunk illegal alien who just ran over and killed someone and got injured in the process would be treated. When I live in Cali the emergency room was packed with Mexicans with their babies and no insurance. They essentially use the emergency room for an office visit. I waited 3 hours to be treated for a dislocated elbow.
-
I also want to mention that I have a good friend from India. He told one of his relatives is just so desperate to come and live in the US. He said that he wants to live in a country where the majority of the poor people are fat.
-
Not everybody in this country has health insurance but EVERYBODY has health care. Even a drunk illegal alien who just ran over and killed someone and got injured in the process would be treated. When I live in Cali the emergency room was packed with Mexicans with their babies and no insurance. They essentially use the emergency room for an office visit. I waited 3 hours to be treated for a dislocated elbow.
So if they require surgery or other more expensive treatments, do they get it without ending up with a fat medical bill?
-
LOL! No tax cuts for the wealthy. The top 1% income earners still have to pay their measly 38% of the tax revenue the government confiscates from them.
Medicare is a failure. The amount of waste and corruption is obscene. Medicare/Medicade and Social Security are the biggest drain on our country's budget. The government has never run anything and made it better, cheaper and more efficient.
In our country, providing for the national defense is one of the few things authorized by the Constitution. Not providing medical coverage and retirement programs.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png/350px-U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png)
Hmm. pellius!? With super-googled over-the-top GOP-positive statistics-and-figures. Didn't see that one coming. I think you can relax, given that Coach's 18-hole, yacht-loitering, alms-donating largesse to the poor won't be affected by any policy by Obama.
-
I just had to reply to Tommywishbone's post.
I lived in the United States for a decade and loved it. Like all countries in the world, it has pluses and minuses.
The only radical deviation I see from the rest of the developed world is its health care system.
To put it bluntly, it's medieval. It's a terribly convoluted system that makes Soviet era Russia look transparent by comparison. It's horrendously expensive, it doesn't cover one fifth of the population at all, and the rest, have variations of cover ranging from woeful to wonderful. I could go on and on but I won't.
What I will do is give an example of a hip replacement that I had. I had a total hip replacement (top of the line Stryker prosthetic with ceramic cup and ball), seven days in hospital and rehab, all covered by the public health care system here in Australia (which everyone pays into). My total spend was..................... ........................ ........................ ......nothing.
When I showed my surgeon a bill (Like Tommy's) for a 23 hour stay with exploratory surgery in the States ($60,000.00). He couldn't stop laughing. He's on the board of many committees that explore the financial side of delivering health care and has gone to the States many, many times. His conclusion was, that greed had consumed the system over there.
I couldn't help but agree.
The States is wonderful place to live, just don't get seriously sick.
-
obviously you haven't heard how hospitals bill and settle.
one of the guys at my work went in for a work injury and we fought with the hospital for the bill. we ended up telling them "we'll pay you 30% by friday or nothing at all" and they agreed.
those "bills" are just kind of a crapshoot because different companies pay out different percentages. they'll never see anywhere near that money from tommy or his insurance.
Absolutely 100% correct. I've done some database auditing in the finance firms and in the health care industry and without a shred of doubt I can say that the fraud perpetrated by the health care industry makes wall street look like Mother Theresa. There are just insane amounts of collusion between drug companies, hospitals and doctors, and government.
-
Absolutely 100% correct. I've done some database auditing in the finance firms and in the health care industry and without a shred of doubt I can say that the fraud perpetrated by the health care industry makes wall street look like Mother Theresa. There are just insane amounts of collusion between drug companies, hospitals and doctors, and government.
Shhh. You don't want to wake Coach from his slumber.
-
I just had to reply to Tommywishbone's post.
I lived in the United States for a decade and loved it. Like all countries in the world, it has pluses and minuses.
The only radical deviation I see from the rest of the developed world is its health care system.
To put it bluntly, it's medieval. It's a terribly convoluted system that makes Soviet era Russia look transparent by comparison. It's horrendously expensive, it doesn't cover one fifth of the population at all, and the rest, have variations of cover ranging from woeful to wonderful. I could go on and on but I won't.
What I will do is give an example of a hip replacement that I had. I had a total hip replacement (top of the line Stryker prosthetic with ceramic cup and ball), seven days in hospital and rehab, all covered by the public health care system here in Australia (which everyone pays into). My total spend was..................... ........................ ........................ ......nothing.
When I showed my surgeon a bill (Like Tommy's) for a 23 hour stay with exploratory surgery in the States ($60,000.00). He couldn't stop laughing. He's on the board of many committees that explore the financial side of delivering health care and has gone to the States many, many times. His conclusion was that greed had consumed the system over there.
I couldn't help but agree.
I have no first hand experience with the system myself so it's good to see someone who has seen both sides
The States is wonderful place to live, just don't get seriously sick. get rich or die trying.
Fixed with 50 cent wisdom
-
you could have gone to mexico and had that done for $2,000, and gotten then dents out your car in the same building while having surgery
What you forgot to tell him is that the same guys who would be taking the dents out of his car, would most likely be performing surgery on him as well.
"1"
-
The economist, Walter Williams, said that in this country there are only five simple easy to achieve rules you have to follow to guarantee you a decent middle class life style. That doesn't mean you'll be rich but that you will not end up on the streets or living off someone else's labor.
Finish high school. Don't have children before you are married. Don't get addicted to drugs or alcohol. Don't get in trouble with the law. Get a job, any job, stick with it, and work hard. Even if you work at a fast food place, if you work hard you will eventually get promoted and move up and become at least a manager -- but usually more if you pursue an education. Maybe not the most glamorous life but you at least have the dignity knowing that you are pulling your own weight and providing for you and your family. My brother's best friend got a job at Walmart as a bag boy. Some 40 years later he's still there now a district manager making six figures. The guy siting next to me on the plane while coming back to Hawaii came to the US and barely speaking the language worked as a janitor for Jack-in-the Box. Still working for the same company he was now on his way from his home in Marin County to stay at his vacation home in Hawaii. Stories like this are endless here in America.
In this country there are always going to be a certain percentage that are poor. But those are not always the same people. People are changing their economic circumstance constantly. A student, such as Xerxes, may have a pitiful annual income that will place him in the lower economic ladder. But with his reasonable intelligence and biting wit this won't last long providing he has some ambition. When you start digging into why a person or a family are consistently destitute you will invariably find that they have broken one of those five years. Usually it has to do with alcohol and drugs.
-
"The economist, Walter Williams....."
And that's where you lost me. The LAST people we should be listening to, or drawing life lessons from, are economists.
-
So if they require surgery or other more expensive treatments, do they get it without ending up with a fat medical bill?
In a word, yes. They will get a bill but if you're some poor sap they are not getting dime. You'll go into collections and get a bad credit rating and you also have the option of simply filing for Bankruptcy and have all debts erased and it will be on your record for 7-10 years but now you are debt free. As a practical matter, you can easily build your credit rating back up in a couple of years as now you are free of debt and can easily get secure credit cards and many will still give you credit (such as if you want to buy a car) as they are very forgiving of unforeseen circumstances.
If you are an illegal or a criminal it's a free ride.
-
"The economist, Walter Williams....."
And that's where you lost me. The LAST people we should be listening to, or drawing life lessons from, are economists.
Who else would they ask us to listen to? Poets? ;D
-
Coach hates democracy and the government, is he an anarchist?
-
"The economist, Walter Williams....."
And that's where you lost me. The LAST people we should be listening to, or drawing life lessons from, are economists.
No we should be listen to you.
Walter Williams grew up in a time when there was still Jim Crow laws and came from a family that was dirt poor living in the projects. Economist run the gamut of political philosophies. Some believe that those who spend money the best are those who had to actually go out and earn it. It's radically different when you can spend someone else's money and suffer no consequences. Remember, when times are tough you have to tighten your belt. When times are tough for the government they just tell you to tighten your belt and simply raise taxes and/or print more money. They never reduce overall government expenditures. We are not in such a staggering debt because the government doesn't confiscate enough of our money. It because they simply spend too much.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/opinion/thomas-sowell/5438-walter-williams-memoir-up-from-the-projects
-
Who else would they ask us to listen to? Poets? ;D
Plato.
-
So if they require surgery or other more expensive treatments, do they get it without ending up with a fat medical bill?
Pretty much, in this country they cannot deny medical treatment. oh they'll get a bill that the hospital knows they cannot pay.
-
Coach hates democracy and the government, is he an anarchist?
And you came to that conclusion how?
Wanting a smaller government that is involved with every aspect of our lives from what kind of light bulbs we can use, how much water we're allowed in our flush toilets and whether we can allow smoking in our own homes if there are children present is not the same as wanting NO government.
And Coach is the one always accused of black and white thinking.
-
Pretty much, in this country they cannot deny medical treatment. oh they'll get a bill that the hospital knows they cannot pay.
I got it before you did. ;D
Don't worry, brah. I got your back. Though it can be tough some times.
-
Pretty much, in this country they cannot deny medical treatment. oh they'll get a bill that the hospital knows they cannot pay.
Pretty much (hello?). In this country (US!?) they cannot deny medical treatment (Yes. they can. and they do, coach).oh they'll get a bill that the hospital knows they cannot pay (debatable)
-
Coach hates democracy and the government, is he an anarchist?
No, unlike you, I'm independent enough to NOT depend on the government for my needs, that's not what OUR government was ever intended for.
-
His advice is valid/good but not applicable to all in the same fashion Finish high school? But 60% of your neighbourhood didn't, why should you? Sure its easy in white suburbia, where biggest problem you have is not being the popular kid..
Neither of your parents have any money or you might not even have parents, and food is scarce. What do you, work for minimum wage to barely eat? Hope that one day when you're 30 you might be able to move with your hard-earned and saved capital? Odds are you'll still be living in the same shithole and be robbed of your grocery shopping from a crackhead or some stickup kids as a regular occurence
Stay away from drugs? Easy to say, but if your life is full of shit, and the majority of your friends do drugs, some of them being drugdealers, add in peer pressure, then the situation suddenly doesn't look as rosy.
No children before getting married sounds like good advice, but getting a girl pregnant can happen to anyone, to use myself as an example, I used to be very lazy with using condoms, shit happens, in the ghetto some women use getting a kid as a way to get a provider for themselves.
In the end, no matter how you put it, how does the biggest economy in the world offer inferior healthcare to Cuba?
-
No, unlike you, I'm independent enough to NOT depend on the government for my needs, that's not what OUR government was ever intended for.
How do you define 'independent,' Coach? And how do you define 'government,' as you notably mention it twice.
-
His advice is valid/good but not applicable to all in the same fashion Finish high school? But 60% of your neighbourhood didn't, why should you? Sure its easy in white suburbia, where biggest problem you have is not being the popular kid..
Neither of your parents have any money or you might not even have parents, and food is scarce. What do you, work for minimum wage to barely eat? Hope that one day when you're 30 you might be able to move with your hard-earned and saved capital? Odds are you'll still be living in the same shithole and be robbed of your grocery shopping from a crackhead or some stickup kids as a regular occurence
Stay away from drugs? Easy to say, but if your life is full of shit, and the majority of your friends do drugs, some of them being drugdealers, add in peer pressure, then the situation suddenly doesn't look as rosy.
No children before getting married sounds like good advice, but getting a girl pregnant can happen to anyone, to use myself as an example, I used to be very lazy with using condoms, shit happens, in the ghetto some women use getting a kid as a way to get a provider for themselves.
In the end, no matter how you put it, how does the biggest economy in the world offer inferior healthcare to Cuba?
Not saying that doesn't happen but everyone has a choice, there some very successful people in business, that have pulled themselves out of the ghetto not wanting to live like that. If you were to ask almost anyone in a ghetto environment what life they would choose, 90% would choose to get out for a better life. They are not stuck or not as much as they think they are.
-
No, unlike you, I'm independent enough to NOT depend on the government for my needs, that's not what OUR government was ever intended for.
But you still think that insane amounts should be spend on national defense?
-
I already give to the poor, I don't need someone to steal it from me
Coach, do you tithe to the Church?
-
I had no insurance. I stopped at the nurse's station on my way out and paid them in cash.
I then walked to the helipad, boarded my helicopter, along with my super model wife and flew to my home in Beverly Hills.
Getbig. All the way Getbig.
-
Not saying that doesn't happen but everyone has a choice, there some very successful people in business, that have pulled themselves out of the ghetto not wanting to live like that. If you were to ask almost anyone in a ghetto environment what life they would choose, 90% would choose to get out for a better life. They are not stuck or not as much as they think they are.
Lie.
Maybe.
Perhaps.
-
The economist, Walter Williams, said that in this country there are only five simple easy to achieve rules you have to follow to guarantee you a decent middle class life style. That doesn't mean you'll be rich but that you will not end up on the streets or living off someone else's labor.
Finish high school. Don't have children before you are married. Don't get addicted to drugs or alcohol. Don't get in trouble with the law. Get a job, any job, stick with it, and work hard. Even if you work at a fast food place, if you work hard you will eventually get promoted and move up and become at least a manager -- but usually more if you pursue an education. Maybe not the most glamorous life but you at least have the dignity knowing that you are pulling your own weight and providing for you and your family. My brother's best friend got a job at Walmart as a bag boy. Some 40 years later he's still there now a district manager making six figures. The guy siting next to me on the plane while coming back to Hawaii came to the US and barely speaking the language worked as a janitor for Jack-in-the Box. Still working for the same company he was now on his way from his home in Marin County to stay at his vacation home in Hawaii. Stories like this are endless here in America.
In this country there are always going to be a certain percentage that are poor. But those are not always the same people. People are changing their economic circumstance constantly. A student, such as Xerxes, may have a pitiful annual income that will place him in the lower economic ladder. But with his reasonable intelligence and biting wit this won't last long providing he has some ambition. When you start digging into why a person or a family are consistently destitute you will invariably find that they have broken one of those five years. Usually it has to do with alcohol and drugs.
He forgot ''don't you ever get sick''.
My mother in law (63 yr/o)has cancer and my father in law (61 yr/o)has heart problems (heart open surgery 6 month ago) middle class family ,they worked their whole life ,they just sold their house to pay their medical bills (co payment)now they are renting a small apartment and they are broke as fuck.
-
Lie.
Maybe.
Perhaps.
(http://cheezpictureisunrelated.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wtf-photos-videos-the-bear-is-clearly-nervous.jpg)
8)
-
From my observation usually the rags to riches stories come from extremely driven people. Extremely driven people will succeed no matter their environment IMO.
Some of these "rags to riches" people seem to resent many of the people in their own original social class due to them being, in their eyes, inferior, weak, lazy or whatnot and many tell their story to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack.
They've been lumped together with the "bad" for so long that they do whatever they can to not act/be one of "them", sometimes that includes telling your story in such a way to make people think getting out of the ghetto is "just something you should do" if you are from there. This of course does not taking into account all the other factors that come into play, and there are many.
-
(http://cheezpictureisunrelated.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wtf-photos-videos-the-bear-is-clearly-nervous.jpg)
8)
Beauty! ;D
-
His advice is valid/good but not applicable to all in the same fashion Finish high school? But 60% of your neighbourhood didn't, why should you?
That's dumb, maybe cause you don't want to be a poor dirtbag like 60% of your neighborhood?
???
-
That's dumb, maybe cause you don't want to be a poor dirtbag like 60% of your neighborhood?
???
Yeah its easy ain't it :-\. Go to school and study hard even though you're the only kid in class paying attention, have no people to study with, all your friends giving you shit for it (peer pressure), having to persevere for YEARS, maybe DECADES and still never own your own home. Its all so easy.
-
Yeah its easy ain't it :-\. Go to school and study hard even though you're the only kid in class paying attention, have no people to study with, all your friends giving you shit for it (peer pressure), having to persevere for YEARS, maybe DECADES and still never own your own home. Its all so easy.
It's not easy, but the alternative is being poor... :-X
-
His advice is valid/good but not applicable to all in the same fashion Finish high school? But 60% of your neighbourhood didn't, why should you? Sure its easy in white suburbia, where biggest problem you have is not being the popular kid..
Neither of your parents have any money or you might not even have parents, and food is scarce. What do you, work for minimum wage to barely eat? Hope that one day when you're 30 you might be able to move with your hard-earned and saved capital? Odds are you'll still be living in the same shithole and be robbed of your grocery shopping from a crackhead or some stickup kids as a regular occurence
Stay away from drugs? Easy to say, but if your life is full of shit, and the majority of your friends do drugs, some of them being drugdealers, add in peer pressure, then the situation suddenly doesn't look as rosy.
No children before getting married sounds like good advice, but getting a girl pregnant can happen to anyone, to use myself as an example, I used to be very lazy with using condoms, shit happens, in the ghetto some women use getting a kid as a way to get a provider for themselves.
In the end, no matter how you put it, how does the biggest economy in the world offer inferior healthcare to Cuba?
Just to get this out of the way quickly -- Nobody goes to Cuba if they want the best health care. They come to the US. Forget the stats that come out of a government controlled Communist society.
As far as your arguments, this is where personal responsibility comes into play. 60% don't finish high school. So what? You're going to be part of the 40%. It doesn't take much effort to finish high school. Just some effort. Taking some responsibility for your life.
I had a miserable childhood. With a family of nine there was never any food in the house and I constantly had welts from the belt that was liberally used in my time when the government didn't arrest you for slapping your child let alone beating them, sometimes unconscious, like they do now. The thought of using drugs to help me cope was never even a thought. I got a punching bag and used it every night. Every damn night. And I grew up in a culture where pot is more common with the young folks than smoking cigs. Still is today.
When I moved to Cali while still a teen and I lived in a ghetto (Crip territory) and was the only white person (well, non Black) in my neighborhood. I had no preconceptions about inner city Blacks as I had zero experience with them growing up and just looked at them as I did Samoans, Tongans, and Hawaiians. My opinion on that has changed radically. I know crime first hand and saw a city burn as the cops fled. Still, I worked three jobs, 7 days a week, and put myself through college. Not a cent from my parents and all student loans paid.
And getting a girl pregnant does not happen to everyone. I was never "lazy" about using a condom and yes some women get pregnant knowing that someone else will be paying for it. That's one of the things republicans want to end. In Cali they had a bill that you get the first one free, all others is on your dime. When you subsidize a certain behavior you will get more of that behavior.
Nothing in life is a sure thing. You can always make excuses as to why you have to use drugs, can't graduate high school, or you get a girl pregnant. But at some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions. These five rules are not unrealistic, unachievable goals. You have to decide for yourself if you want to be a loser your whole life. And if you do, then sleep in the gutter and stay out of my way. When your choice is between starving to death or washing cars or loading trucks (both which I have done) then maybe you'll get your act together. There should be real consequences for your actions.
I sympathize with your beliefs. You're a good guy with a good heart and don't like to see people suffer. It's just not right. Chimps is the same way. I have a soft spot for people with good hearts. I was the same way until I got out on my own and realized life is not a bowl of cherries. There's very real consequences to your actions and the choices that you make. But as Winston Churchill once said, "If you are not a liberal when you are thirty, you have no heart. If you not a conservative when you are forty, you have no brain."
-
But you still think that insane amounts should be spend on national defense?
We spend 20%. And all the world looks only to us whenever there is trouble in the world. If there was no US with our formidable military who is to keep Russia, China and North Korea at bay. Europe? LOL!
-
We spend 20%. And all the world looks only to us whenever there is trouble in the world. If there was no US with our formidable military who is to keep Russia, China and North Korea at bay. Europe? LOL!
Yeah yeah yeah. ::) ::) ::) That was SLIGHTLY off the point asshole.
-
He forgot ''don't you ever get sick''.
My mother in law (63 yr/o)has cancer and my father in law (61 yr/o)has heart problems (heart open surgery 6 month ago) middle class family ,they worked their whole life ,they just sold their house to pay their medical bills (co payment)now they are renting a small apartment and they are broke as fuck.
Those rule were intended as the minimum required so that you don't live on the streets or on the dole. There are ALWAYS exceptions. Shit does happen. There will always be people who are just fucked. I stressed that and always stress that. My sister worked for Aloha Airlines for 28 years before they went bust. She lost everything. Pension, 401K everything she worked for since she was 19 years old. But should Coach and others like him be forced literally at gun point to bail her out? There are no guarantees in life. Did your mother-in-law have health insurance?
-
Just to get this out of the way quickly -- Nobody goes to Cuba if they want the best health care. They come to the US. Forget the stats that come out of a government controlled Communist society.
As far as your arguments, this is where personal responsibility comes into play. 60% don't finish high school. So what? You're going to be part of the 40%. It doesn't take much effort to finish high school. Just some effort. Taking some responsibility for your life.
I had a miserable childhood. With a family of nine there was never any food in the house and I constantly had welts from the belt that was liberally used in my time when the government didn't arrest you for slapping your child let alone beating them, sometimes unconscious, like they do now. The thought of using drugs to help me cope was never even a thought. I got a punching bag and used it every night. Every damn night. And I grew up in a culture where pot is more common with the young folks than smoking cigs. Still is today.
When I moved to Cali while still a teen and I lived in a ghetto (Crip territory) and was the only white person (well, non Black) in my neighborhood. I had no preconceptions about inner city Blacks as I had zero experience with them growing up and just looked at them as I did Samoans, Tongans, and Hawaiians. My opinion on that has changed radically. I know crime first hand and saw a city burn as the cops fled. Still, I worked three jobs, 7 days a week, and put myself through college. Not a cent from my parents and all student loans paid.
And getting a girl pregnant does not happen to everyone. I was never "lazy" about using a condom and yes some women get pregnant knowing that someone else will be paying for it. That's one of the things republicans want to end. In Cali they had a bill that you get the first one free, all others is on your dime. When you subsidize a certain behavior you will get more of that behavior.
Nothing in life is a sure thing. You can always make excuses as to why you have to use drugs, can't graduate high school, or you get a girl pregnant. But at some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions. These five rules are not unrealistic, unachievable goals. You have to decide for yourself if you want to be a loser your whole life. And if you do, then sleep in the gutter and stay out of my way. When your choice is between starving to death or washing cars or loading trucks (both which I have done) then maybe you'll get your act together. There should be real consequences for your actions.
I sympathize with your beliefs. You're a good guy with a good heart and don't like to see people suffer. It's just not right. Chimps is the same way. I have a soft spot for people with good hearts. I was the same way until I got out on my own and realized life is not a bowl of cherries. There's very real consequences to your actions and the choices that you make. But as Winston Churchill once said, "If you are not a liberal when you are thirty, you have no heart. If you not a conservative when you are forty, you have no brain."
Originally I agreed very much with the five pieces of advice he gave, but I felt it painted a somewhat rosy picture of reality and wanted to counter it to give the other side of the story a voice. I agree 100% about taking personal responsibility but I feel we as humans have not evolved enough for it to be reasonable to suggest all people will.
That said, cases like che's parents in his post above are truly awful. Cringeworthy stuff what I hear of your healthcare/insurance systems, but you and Coach suggest it isn't really that bad. It seems to me the really poor get off with getting bad credit, but the middle class, with some meager resources have to pay and many end up in bad situations.
-
From my observation usually the rags to riches stories come from extremely driven people. Extremely driven people will succeed no matter their environment IMO.
Some of these "rags to riches" people seem to resent many of the people in their own original social class due to them being, in their eyes, inferior, weak, lazy or whatnot and many tell their story to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack.
They've been lumped together with the "bad" for so long that they do whatever they can to not act/be one of "them", sometimes that includes telling your story in such a way to make people think getting out of the ghetto is "just something you should do" if you are from there. This of course does not taking into account all the other factors that come into play, and there are many.
Perhaps. But going from rags to modestly middle class come from people who don't want to be bums.
That being said, I never discount the amount of luck or chance that plays a big factor in everybody's life.
-
Those rule were intended as the minimum required so that you don't live on the streets or on the dole. There are ALWAYS exceptions. Shit does happen. There will always be people who are just fucked. I stressed that and always stress that. My sister worked for Aloha Airlines for 28 years before they went bust. She lost everything. Pension, 401K everything she worked for since she was 19 years old. But should Coach and others like him be forced literally at gun point to bail her out? There are no guarantees in life. Did your mother-in-law have health insurance?
They both have health insurance.
-
Yeah yeah yeah. ::) ::) ::) That was SLIGHTLY off the point asshole.
I was wondering where an honest debate will soon lead to personal insults. And it was exactly on the point. Our military is what makes us the leader of the world. At 20% of the GDP it's a small price especially when you consider we spend more than double the amount in entitlements and give away programs, fucktard.
You are not really very bright are you? What do you do?
BTW fatso, this is still a bodybuilding board. Have you started working out yet?
-
Originally I agreed very much with the five pieces of advice he gave, but I felt it painted a somewhat rosy picture of reality and wanted to counter it to give the other side of the story a voice. I agree 100% about taking personal responsibility but I feel we as humans have not evolved enough for it to be reasonable to suggest all people will.
That said, cases like che's parents in his post above are truly awful. Cringeworthy stuff what I hear of your healthcare/insurance systems, but you and Coach suggest it isn't really that bad. It seems to me the really poor get off with getting bad credit, but the middle class, with some meager resources have to pay and many end up in bad situations.
Nothing is ever "all".
We have one of the best, if the best, health care system in the world. The problem is with cost containment. There's not many people here dying of the streets due to lack of health care like they are in Cuba. We are a county who by world standards live a pretty comfortable, cushy and ever self-indulgent life style. Even the people categorized as poor have a car, have a TV an air conditioner -- and lots of food.
-
There's not many people here dying of the streets due to lack of health care like they are in Cuba.
Haha ,now you are making shit up.
-
Nothing is ever "all".
We have one of the best, if the best, health care system in the world. The problem is with cost containment. There's not many people here dying of the streets due to lack of health care like they are in Cuba. We are a county who by world standards live a pretty comfortable, cushy and ever self-indulgent life style. Even the people categorized as poor have a car, have a TV an air conditioner -- and lots of food.
Do you feel that your healthcare coverage is fair and balanced? In comparison to other OECD countries I mean. If yes why are you whining (seems like there is a lot of public outrage about your system), if no then why can't you emulate one of the systems overseas?
-
Do you feel that your healthcare coverage is fair and balanced? In comparison to other OECD countries I mean. If yes why are you whining (seems like there is a lot of public outrage about your system), if no then why can't you emulate one of the systems overseas?
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
-
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
37th in the world :-\
-
Pellius. The point was this: how do these two statements make sense together?
Money SHOULD be spent on defence.
No, unlike you, I'm independent enough to NOT depend on the government for my needs, that's not what OUR government was ever intended for.
-
No no no, let the government pay for it, its free...well exept the for the extra 25% in taxes we'll all have to pay, other than it's free. Hail Obamacare!
Joe, the bill for Tommy's operation is 135K. There's hardly anyone in the U.S that can afford that. Even with decent insurance, it would still be around 50k and nobody has that kind of money lying around. I certainly don't and neither do most people. \
Requiring people to buy insurance along with placing a cap on malpractice lawsuits will bring the cost back to sanity levels and will improve the quality of care because hospitals will have the money for cleaner facilities and more personnel
-
Vince, I can't believe you are saying this after all that sold bee pollen. :(
-
Haha ,now you are making shit up.
Ok, you're saying the are cities are littered with dying bodies due to lack of health care. Where exactly? Drive down the crappiest area in your town tonight and give me a count of how many dead bodies you see on the street.
We don't live in a perfect country. But by world standards this is top of the top of the food chain. We have it easy here. Even the poor people are fat. In fact, most of the fat people in this country are on the lower end of the economic scale. Be grateful.
-
Ok, you're saying the are cities are littered with dying bodies due to lack of health care. Where exactly? Drive down the crappiest area in your town tonight and give me a count of how many dead bodies you see on the street.
I've never said that , you said that people in Cuba are dying in the street because the lack of health care ,that's not true, you made that up..
-
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
I already said don't go by those phony stats. Especially by the WHO which always skews against the US. Even how countries defined infant mortality varies widely. But if you really want to believe that Malta or Singapore have better health care then so be it. Where did that political leader from Canada go when he needed top notched health care. Hint: It wasn't Malta. Nor was it Canada.
-
Pellius. The point was this: how do these two statements make sense together?
As stated before, national defense is one of the few things required in our Constitution. Being healthy, having food and clothing, having a roof over your head is not the responsibility of the government. Providing for the defense of the country -- our country's needs -- is not the same as providing for individual needs.
-
I already said don't go by those phony stats. Especially by the WHO which always skews against the US. Even how countries defined infant mortality varies widely. But if you really want to believe that Malta or Singapore have better health care then so be it. Where did that political leader from Canada go when he needed top notched health care. Hint: It wasn't Malta. Nor was it Canada.
Political leaders of Canada getting top dollar treatment from top doctors in the states is hardly comparable to the lower social classes. I have no doubt in my mind that the US has some of the best institutions in the world, the question is not the quality of their work, its the extent of its reach within the population, regardless of social class.
-
I already said don't go by those phony stats. Especially by the WHO which always skews against the US. Even how countries defined infant mortality varies widely. But if you really want to believe that Malta or Singapore have better health care then so be it. Where did that political leader from Canada go when he needed top notched health care. Hint: It wasn't Malta. Nor was it Canada.
That's The World Health Organization ,who we should go by ? Sean Hannity ???
-
(http://vivificoultra.com/ppprf/music/2010/10/Infinity-Symbol.gif)
-
I've never said that , you said that people in Cuba are dying in the street because the lack of health care ,that's not true, you made that up..
Oh. You're right about what I said literally. It was just an honest spelling error. I meant to write "Congo". I always get mixed up with words that start with a "C".
That being said, the prisoners at Guantanamo live better than the majority of those right outside the gate.
-
That being said, the prisoners at Guantanamo live better than the majority of those right outside the gate.
Now what does this useless piece of "information" contribute to the debate, are you debating or promoting some agenda?
I'm out its 4:39 in the morning here :-\ :'(
-
My valuable hip & friends.
-
Political leaders of Canada getting top dollar treatment from top doctors in the states is hardly comparable to the lower social classes. I have no doubt in my mind that the US has some of the best institutions in the world, the question is not the quality of their work, its the extent of its reach within the population, regardless of social class.
Again, everyone in the US gets health care. But, as it is everywhere in the world through out time immemorial, the rich people always have it better. The poorest person in the US still has it better in every aspect than how most people in the world have to live. One of the top killers in this world is diarrhea solely due to lack of fresh water.
-
That's The World Health Organization ,who we should go by ? Sean Hannity ???
Common sense. Know anybody living in Malta? I do?
-
Again, everyone in the US gets health care. But, as it is everywhere in the world through out time immemorial, the rich people always have it better. The poorest person in the US still has it better in every aspect than how most people in the world have to live. One of the top killers in this world is diarrhea solely due to lack of fresh water.
As the worlds leading nation you can not take the stance that "oh well we have it so much better than INDIA or CONGO". You have to compare yourself to the top as you are the mighty USA.
-
Now what does this useless piece of "information" contribute to the debate, are you debating or promoting some agenda?
I'm out its 4:39 in the morning here :-\ :'(
The US treat it's terrorist better than Castro treats his own people. Cuba does not take care of it's people better than the US.
-
(http://vivificoultra.com/ppprf/music/2010/10/Infinity-Symbol.gif)
This is up your alley, Uber. Get in on this.
-
-
My valuable hip & friends.
So we went a little bit off track. But that's what makes GetBig GetBig. We're more than just thongs, oil, and shaved gorillas. Not much more. But more.
But this thread has already made me late. I'm out.
-
So we went a little bit off track. But that's what makes GetBig GetBig. We're more than just thongs, oil, and shaved gorillas. Not much more. But more.
But this thread has already made me late. I'm out.
:) We agree. Stay cool.
-
The FDR "New Deal" was responsible for most of the prosperity of the post war years up to the Vietnam era...Then the inflation that hit because of the one two punch of exploding energy prices and money going to Vietnam actions caused the "New Right" to dismantle much of the "New Deal" mainly by reducing tarriffs, keeping wages as low as they can, and saying the solution is to dismantle more of the "New Deal", ignoring the fact that their fiddling with it caused this problem to begin with...
To be fair I have to say that LBJ should have levied surtaxes to finance Vietnam...
-
Privatization of health care in the US is a disaster.
Health industry lobbyists and the crooked politicians who keep this fucked up system going need to be dragged outside and burnt alive for their greed.
-
When you have an industry as big as insurance it will NEVER be perfect. Is it perfect? No but it sure as hell isn't a disaster especially when the majority of the country are happy with their insurance. I know I'm happy with mine. The funny thing is the people who are against privatization really expect something for nothing. Fact is, government is not the answer, look around, seriously, its government that's the disaster not privatization..of anything. This isn't hearsay, this is fact.
-
When you have an industry as big as insurance it will NEVER be perfect. Is it perfect? No but it sure as hell isn't a disaster especially when the majority of the country are happy with their insurance. I know I'm happy with mine. The funny thing is the people who are against privatization really expect something for nothing. Fact is, government is not the answer, look around, seriously, its government that's the disaster not privatization..of anything. This isn't hearsay, this is fact.
which is responsible for human rights? private industry or government?
which is responsible for law and order? private industry or government?
which is responsible for jails, police, judges, the monetary system, the military, the postal service, and all major infrastructure?
government solves nothing?
seems to me that government solves, or at least improves, just about everything.
-
Yes it seems to be correct and i think it is exceeding and should be controlled and i also disagree with such taxes. :(
-
He forgot ''don't you ever get sick''.
My mother in law (63 yr/o)has cancer and my father in law (61 yr/o)has heart problems (heart open surgery 6 month ago) middle class family ,they worked their whole life ,they just sold their house to pay their medical bills (co payment)now they are renting a small apartment and they are broke as fuck.
This is why I love Canada: I got hit with the Big C 2 years ago. 33 yrs old and in great shape. Non smoker, social drinker. I work for an great company with a really good med. plan, and a provincial health coverage that payed for what my private coverage didn't. 4 solid months of nasty chemotherapy, followed by having a bunch of my guts scooped out (plus all chemo and pain drugs), and the only thing I had to pay out of pocket was to have a tv in my hospital room. No questions asked about any if it. The Great White North is truly great.
I really feel for my south of the border brethren, such as those mentioned in Che's post. You know, with universal health care the average working man/woman will end up paying more in taxes to cover costs, but on the flip side, if you end up on the shitty end of the unemployment rate stick, you will not be left for dead in your hospital waiting room. In this current economic climate (and current, i mean the last 5 years, and next decades going forward) you or a loved one will find a need for public "Obamacare". Only then will you be thankful. cheers all. have a safe day.
-
which is responsible for human rights? private industry or government?
Are you talking about protecting it or making it better, governments job is to protect it, private industry makes it better. The government fucks up damn near everything it lays it's hands on. Health insurance isn't a "right".
which is responsible for law and order? private industry or government?
Government, but it's the same government that wants to cut the military budget by almost 20%..brilliant since the first order of business for the president is to protect the country, not apologize for it to communist leaders
which is responsible for jails, police, judges, the monetary system, the military, the postal service, and all major infrastructure?
Government...and it's doing a great fucking job, post office is broke, stimulus was supposed to be for infrastructure but after a $700bil input they say they need money for "infrastructure", the military? see above comment, the police, cities and counties are looking for ways to cut the budget, civil service gets cut ALL THE TIME...look up "Costa Mesa" and you'll see that they are cutting almost 1/2 of government workers to make the budget. Yes Tbombs, they fuck things up..BIG TIME!
government solves nothing?
seems to me that government solves, or at least improves, just about everything.
You're naive
-
government- to govern, to control variables and push reality towards a desired outcome.
govern the behavior of people and institutions to ensure everyone basic rights and fairness, and promote a better standard of living.
this includes creating a resource pool (taxation) and using it to pay for enforcement of laws(police judicial jails military) and the for the operation of programs designed to boost standard of living (fire department, health care, education, etc).
-
government- to govern, to control variables and push reality towards a desired outcome.
govern the behavior of people and institutions to ensure everyone basic rights and fairness, and promote a better standard of living.
this includes creating a resource pool (taxation) and using it to pay for enforcement of laws(police judicial jails military) and the for the operation of programs designed to boost standard of living (fire department, health care, education, etc).
So what's your point brain child?
We can all agree government is necessary, but to what degree?
I don't rely on government for much, and I want it as small as possible.
-
So what's your point brain child?
We can all agree government is necessary, but to what degree?
I don't rely on government for much, and I want it as small as possible.
as small as possible?
its quite possible for it to be non existant.
so why have any government at all?
because it can be good.
and as long as it is doing good, then thats good.
and the more good it does, the better that is.
so the best government will be as big as possible while still remaining as good as possible.
:-*
-
as small as possible?
its quite possible for it to be non existant.
so why have any government at all?
because it can be good.
and as long as it is doing good, then thats good.
and the more good it does, the better that is.
so the best government will be as big as possible while still remaining as good as possible.
:-*
I know you're not THIS fucking dumb, this has to be a joke..right?
-
I know you're not THIS fucking dumb, this has to be a joke..right?
its the truth
deal with it
more government=better government, so long as the government is good government. superb government. top of the line, without a doubt, undoubtedly the best government.
-
its the truth
deal with it
more government=better government, so long as the government is good government. superb government. top of the line, without a doubt, undoubtedly the best government.
Something tells me you'd rather have the government dictate (like Oshithead is trying to do) your life rather than fend or think for yourself. BTW, the highlighted? Impossible...move on.
-
Something tells me you'd rather have the government dictate (like Oshithead is trying to do) your life rather than fend or think for yourself. BTW, the highlighted? Impossible...move on.
You're very passionate about politics and your point of view, that's quite clear. But, sometimes there is a middle ground and even the farthest left or right winged ideologists need to recognize that.
-
. BTW, the highlighted? Impossible...move on.
i was having a bit of literary fun
but of course its possible
anyways
the government should be as small as possible. thats true. but your forgetting the second part. which is... as small as possible, while still doing as much good as possible.
and that means it will be as big as possible while still doing only good.
-
with bodyweight exercises bodybuilding can be free
its still a good idea to join a gym
-
Pellius and Coach are right. I work for one of the top three biggest fire departments in the US. We pick up the poor and all around pieces of shit non-stop. Everyone gets care in the US no one is turned awayed. Its funny Americans can't be bothered with paying for health care but they can pay for their brand new Ford F450 and TV dinners.
-
Pellius and Coach are right. I work for one of the top three biggest fire departments in the US. We pick up the poor and all around pieces of shit non-stop. Everyone gets care in the US no one is turned awayed. Its funny Americans can't be bothered with paying for health care but they can pay for their brand new Ford F450 and TV dinners.
Interesting statement.
Below we have an Ford F-450 and a TV dinner.
-
Here's a copy of my hospital bill from February 2011 for (left) total hip replacement.
The total is $135,927.70 Yes, that amount is obscene and shows how insanely out of whack US medical care cost have become. I was in the hospital a grand total of 29 - 30 hours. . . hours not days or weeks.
This bill does not include my doctor's fee or his assistants.
Including all pre-op examinations, post-op care (so far) the bill for my hip is slightly over $150,000. The absolute number of hours I have spent with doctors, therapist, radiologist, nurses, pharmacy visits, etc., is 35 -37 hours. Yes, they fixed me.
I`d put that bill in my circular file........AKA the fucking wastebasket!!
Crazy shit!
-
as small as possible?
its quite possible for it to be non existant.
so why have any government at all?
because it can be good.
and as long as it is doing good, then thats good.
and the more good it does, the better that is.
so the best government will be as big as possible while still remaining as good as possible.
:-*
If you can't make your own life "good", that's your problem. Mine is "good", by my own making. Besides national defense, fire, police, zoning, etc... the government can fuck off.
-
So basically, if you are in the USA and you need an emergency surgery, and you don't have insurance, you can get hit with a bill for 100K. Even if you are a U.S. citizen.
How can anyone defend a health care system in which this kind of shit can happen? Unbelievable.
The insurance industry has got a lot of Americans brainwashed into thinking privatized health care is good for them. I can't believe so many stupid fucking people in the US fight to keep this garbage system alive.
-
So basically, if you are in the USA and you need an emergency surgery, and you don't have insurance, you can get hit with a bill for 100K. Even if you are a U.S. citizen.
How can anyone defend a health care system in which this kind of shit can happen? Unbelievable.
The insurance industry has got a lot of Americans brainwashed into thinking privatized health care is good for them. I can't believe so many stupid fucking people in the US fight to keep this garbage system alive.
Maybe we're motivated by the fact that it is a good system?
-
Social darwinism.
-
Well, I can see this thread is still going on during my absence. It always amazes me that there's no other bodybuilding board that deals with so many aspects of life. That's why I'm here and stay here. I like the posts by that guy who is a fireman. It's good to get the perspective of someone dealing first hand what the rest of us just talk about. The governments main role is essentially to protect us from each other. That includes foreign enemies, property rights, enforcement of contracts, a gallon of gas is really a gallon, your food is not contaminated.... It was never intended that the role of government also provide you with housing, education, and even health insurance. If having health insurance is a right (not the right to obtain health insurance and health care but to have it provided for you) why not food? Food comes before health care? Why don't we have government run grocery stores and let them determine who gets what and how much? Why we're at it doesn't having shelter also come before health care? You got to have a roof over your head, right? Why don't we have government run housing for everybody? We already see how they run housing projects? Then there's clothing? That's also a necessity and therefore a right. Why don't we have government run the clothing industry so they can insure that everyone is fairly and equally clothed. Since Tbombz thinks the bigger the government the better -- greater control of our lives -- why don't we just let them take all of our paychecks? After all, the premise is that the government knows better than we do on how to live our lives so surely they know better how to spend our money than we do. The ones who actually had to earn it.
-
Well, I can see this thread is still going on during my absence. It always amazes me that there's no other bodybuilding board that deals with so many aspects of life. That's why I'm here and stay here. I like the posts by that guy who is a fireman. It's good to get the perspective of someone dealing first hand what the rest of us just talk about. The governments main role is essentially to protect us from each other. That includes foreign enemies, property rights, enforcement of contracts, a gallon of gas is really a gallon, your food is not contaminated.... It was never intended that the role of government also provide you with housing, education, and even health insurance. If having health insurance is a right (not the right to obtain health insurance and health care but to have it provided for you) why not food? Food comes before health care? Why don't we have government run grocery stores and let them determine who gets what and how much? Why we're at it doesn't having shelter also come before health care? You got to have a roof over your head, right? Why don't we have government run housing for everybody? We already see how they run housing projects? Then there's clothing? That's also a necessity and therefore a right. Why don't we have government run the clothing industry so they can insure that everyone is fairly and equally clothed. Since Tbombz thinks the bigger the government the better -- greater control of our lives -- why don't we just let them take all of our paychecks? After all, the premise is that the government knows better than we do on how to live our lives so surely they know better how to spend our money than we do. The ones who actually had to earn it.
Straw man argument.
-
Straw man argument.
Wrong. I did not misrepresent the original argument, i.e., bigger government is better and health care is a right. The examples I gave are indeed considered a necessity for life and therefore equivalent to the original proposition, i.e., health care. Therefore the argument: If this is necessary for life and therefore a right and should be provided for then since this is also necessary for life it should also be a right and be provided for.
-
Wrong. I did not misrepresent the original argument, i.e., bigger government is better and health care is a right. The examples I gave are indeed considered a necessity for life and therefore equivalent to the original proposition, i.e., health care. Therefore the argument: If this is necessary for life and therefore a right and should be provided for then since this is also necessary for life it should also be a right and be provided for.
I thought the argument was about the quality and extent of your health services' reach within the population no matter social class, and why it seems like your system ranks just below Costa Rica despite being the biggest economy in the world. Silly me. :D
-
I thought the argument was about the quality and extent of your health services' reach within the population no matter social class, and why it seems like your system ranks just below Costa Rica despite being the biggest economy in the world. Silly me. :D
The argument was never about quality. We have the best doctors, equipment and medications in the world. Everyone gets health services. The overwhelming majority are happy with their health care coverage. It about the problem with cost containment.
And I've already spoken about the agendas in organizations such as the WHO. If you had pancreatic cancer and had only two choices of where to be treated, the US or Costa Rica, which would you choose?
-
The argument was never about quality. We have the best doctors, equipment and medications in the world. Everyone gets health services. The overwhelming majority are happy with their health care coverage. It about the problem with cost containment.
And I've already spoken about the agendas in organizations such as the WHO. If you had pancreatic cancer and had only two choices of where to be treated, the US or Costa Rica, which would you choose?
Oh yeah sure, I'm just going to take your word for it and squash WHO rankings down the drain because you said they have an anti-USA agenda, cause if you said it, it must be true. That surely must mean that you're not 37th on the ranking list of the world, you MUST be nr.1!!
Pellius, with all due respect, why do you think there is so much public outrage towards this privatization?
-
Oh yeah sure, I'm just going to take your word for it and squash WHO rankings down the drain because you said they have an anti-USA agenda, cause if you said it, it must be true. That surely must mean that you're not 37th on the ranking list of the world, you MUST be nr.1!!
Pellius, with all due respect, why do you think there is so much public outrage towards this privatization?
When I say that the WHO has an agenda, just like the UN why does that imply you should just take my word for it. Would you just Costa Rica over the US for treatment.
And there is no outrage towards privatization? Where on earth did you get that idea? That's not even the issue. There is outrage against "Obama Care." I don't know what your newspapers are reporting in your country but it's not what's going on here.
-
When I say that the WHO has an agenda, just like the UN why does that imply you should just take my word for it. Would you just Costa Rica over the US for treatment.
And there is no outrage towards privatization? Where on earth did you get that idea? That's not even the issue. There is outrage against "Obama Care." I don't know what your newspapers are reporting in your country but it's not what's going on here.
I don't know if I would favor treatment in Costa Rica or not, perhaps if I was a lower middle class citizen without insurance then possibly, I don't know what their system is like nor am I going to assume it is worse than yours without knowing (do you know?).
If there was no public outrage or resentment towards the privatized health sector then why the hell did you elect Obama?
-
So much for my inheritance. ::)
-
I've been asking myself that for the last 21/2 years.
-
opinions are like assholes...everyone has one. Tbombz been raised in a particular environment, by special parents, his way of thinking the world he's only a mix of everything that he heard. Did he choose who spawned him, did he choose his way of thinking ? no. Same can be said of every single individual on earth. Find people who think alike and ignore those who dont. You re just wasting your energy.
You dont choose your past, your conditionnings. At some point in life you figure life is just about eating or getting eaten. So this discussion is pointless. Tbombz is a loser with no education, no life, attempting constantly to sound smarter than he truly is precisely because he has a complexion being spawned by unintelligent people. These people are fed by the governement, why would he bite its hand? His father must have been on welfare all life long.
Once he reaches Pellius and the coach age and once his parents are gone he will be left with only two options; eating or getting eaten. If he has the skills to achieve things he will rely on this, if he doesnt he will rely on what he knows best; leeching money off the government. Seriously tbombz? you dont have a job right?
Pellius quoting churchill said it all already. Once you reach the 30s then 40s you focus on simple things like work, family, values, enjoy some simple occupations and dont go into political discussion anymore, cause you know somehow it doesnt makes much sense. At this point in life you better have someone to talk with and make love with. You start to get neutral about everything cause you ve seen so much bullshits being revealed that you understand you simply dont have control on anything but your job, your family and little meaningless -for others- occupations. And even in these cases, talking about control is pushing it , let's say you can have some "influence" on em but that's about it. We all end the same way.
Do not waste your time with ignorant kids. Chances are if tbombz father hasnt been able to feed his brain with quality thoughts nobody 's going to do it. He ll figure it out later. It's not his fault, not yours, not his parent's fault either, that's just the way it is.
-
Everyone should just work harder, its as simple as that. Anyone that can't afford health care, by definition, is not living the American dream and is therefore a communist.
Now take these pills America and shut up.
-
opinions are like assholes...everyone has one.
And they all stink.
-
How did bb make you get a new hip?
-
If you don't take sufficient recovery time between workouts,...you injure yourself a little bit each time.
-
Remember this exchange last night Tbombz?
which is responsible for jails, police, judges, the monetary system, the military, the postal service, and all major infrastructure?
Government...and it's doing a great fucking job, post office is broke, stimulus was supposed to be for infrastructure but after a $700bil input they say they need money for "infrastructure", the military? see above comment, the police, cities and counties are looking for ways to cut the budget, civil service gets cut ALL THE TIME...look up "Costa Mesa" and you'll see that they are cutting almost 1/2 of government workers to make the budget. Yes Tbombs, they fuck things up..BIG TIME!
government solves nothing?
seems to me that government solves, or at least improves, just about everything.
Now read this..............
NEW YORK (CBS 2) — The secret is out.
CBS 2’s Marcia Kramer has learned exclusively some of the fire houses on Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s chopping block. Some say shutting them down could put your safety at risk.
Twenty fire companies are on death row including, sources said, Engine 271 in Bushwick. And unless there’s a last-minute reprieve communities all across the city could be in danger.
“It’s very serious. Mayor Bloomberg is asking the Fire Department to roll the dice on public safety. If you close one fire company, let alone 20, even one fire company will impact the safety of New Yorkers,” said Councilwoman Elizabeth Crowley, D-Queens.
“When response time goes up you’re talking about loss of property and loss of life,” added Councilman James Vacca.
Vacca is all fired up about the expectation that Ladder 53 on City Island — in his district — is on the closure list.
“We know our budget is bad but no one can justify jeopardizing life and limb and public safety,” Vacca said.
Sources told Kramer that others expected to be on death row are Engine 161 on Staten Island and Engine 4 at the South Street Seaport.
When Engine 4 left the firehouse on a call Wednesday, firefighters wondered whether it would be among their last in the dense Wall Street area near ground zero.
Kramer asked fire union official Edward Boles to explain, for example, what closing Engine 4 would mean for fire safety.
“Engine 4 is the first engine to respond if there was any tragedy at Wall Street,” Boles said. “Wall Street is the economic capital of the world. They’re also a mass de-con unit, so if there was a major terrorist attack they would be the first ones to help out.”
People who live and work in the area are terrified.
“It’s such a compact neighborhood that you need someone here to respond quickly to any type of fire because it would spread like wildfire,” said Tom Rooney, who works in the area.
“Its scary, it’s absolutely scary. I don’t know what else to say,” Lower Manhattan resident Toni Sosinsky said.
“A lot of new apartments around here. All of these office buildings have become apartments, so I don’t think you should close it down. When you look at the density of the amount of people who are moving down to the Financial District, now they need it,” added Michael Springer, who also works in the area.
And Boles has a message for Mayor Bloomberg:
“Please, for the sake of the citizens of New York City and for their safety, don’t put dollars before lives,” Boles said.
The FDNY is already operating with nearly 600 fewer firefighters. City officials said it doesn’t expect to release the full list of the doomed 20 until sometime next month.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04/06/exclusive-cbs-2-obtains-partial-list-of-fdny-company-closures/
Tbombz, you need a taste of reality and I don't mean your boyfriends cock.
-
im suprised by the amount of neo republican-conservatism on this board.
you want the government to provide your childrens education, but you dont want it to provide health care? which one is of more importance again?
you want it to make murder and rape illegal, but you dont want it to set limits on emissions of green house gases to protect the future of life on earth? is there any difference between those two?
you want business and people to have the freedom to screw over who ever the fuck they want, but you dont want people to be able to smoke weed or be homosexual?
big government is good where government can help
small government is good where government is necessary
no government is good where no government can help
freedoms should be as many as possible, excluding any action that would inhibit another from executing one of their freeedoms.
-
i dont want the government to give me anything.......and in return i dont want to pay taxes....
bench
-
i dont want the government to give me anything
impossible
-
im suprised by the amount of neo republican-conservatism on this board.
you want the government to provide your childrens education, but you dont want it to provide health care? which one is of more importance again?
you want it to make murder and rape illegal, but you dont want it to set limits on emissions of green house gases to protect the future of life on earth? is there any difference between those two?
you want business and people to have the freedom to screw over who ever the fuck they want, but you dont want people to be able to smoke weed or be homosexual?
big government is good where government can help
small government is good where government is necessary
no government is good where no government can help
freedoms should be as many as possible, excluding any action that would inhibit another from executing one of their freeedoms.
No I don't, my kid goes to a private school but the government MAKES ME still pay for public schools even though I chose to put my kid in private school since day one. You're so naive it's mental.
-
impossible
i know thats a hard theory for you to grasp...since everything in your life was given to you...maybe one day you will figure it out ;)
bench
-
No I don't, my kid goes to a private school but the government MAKES ME still pay for public schools even though I chose to put my kid in private school since day one. You're so naive it's mental.
that always pissed me off...i have no kids...dont plan on having kids...but i still have to pay property tax for the damn schools around here, even though they rent advertising spot on the sides of the school buses....i have a ass load of land that i live on....i honeslty think i spent more on taxes for it in the last few years than i did buying the shit..
bench
-
No I don't, my kid goes to a private school but the government MAKES ME still pay for public schools even though I chose to put my kid in private school since day one. You're so naive it's mental.
well 90%+ of people support government education.. so.. :-*
-
well 90%+ of people support government education.. so.. :-*
Show me..and don't give me some bullshit bias CNN or MSNBC poll. 90%..hahahaha, you're high. LOL. BTW, address the article I posted.
-
Show me..and don't give me some bullshit bias CNN or MSNBC poll. 90%..hahahaha, you're high. LOL. BTW, address the article I posted.
i think the number might really be close to 90%...mainly due to the lack of private schools in a given area.....tbombz may be right simply by default on this....if it isnt around 90% i still expect the number to be high just do to the socila enviroment..
bench
-
Show me..and don't give me some bullshit bias CNN or MSNBC poll. 90%..hahahaha, you're high. LOL. BTW, address the article I posted.
show you? as if there is polling done on that. it probably hasnt been an issue in an election for 200 years. the fact that the government ought to provide a standardized education for children was long ago established.
the article about the NYC fire stations closing? its a very good argument for regulation of financial markets and lending institutions. :)
-
i think the number might really be close to 90%...mainly due to the lack of private schools in a given area.....tbombz may be right simply by default on this....if it isnt around 90% i still expect the number to be high just do to the socila enviroment..
bench
You're right, I'm sure it is about 90% in the ghetto areas but the quality of education is low, not only because of the students but because of the teachers who don't give a shit about anything but a paycheck (see NY and Wisconsin).
-
show you? as if there is polling done on that. it probably hasnt been an issue in an election for 200 years. the fact that the government ought to provide a standardized education for children was long ago established.
the article about the NYC fire stations closing? its a very good argument for regulation of financial markets and lending institutions. :)
It proved the point last night night I was making about how government fucks things up ::)
-
No I don't, my kid goes to a private school but the government MAKES ME still pay for public schools even though I chose to put my kid in private school since day one. You're so naive it's mental.
Because you and society don't benefit from pubic schools being of a decent quality? Talk about naive.
-
Coach got rich smuggling drugs from Mexico and now he's complaining about helping others with his tax $ ::)
-
...but because of the teachers Wall Street who don't give a shit about anything but a paycheck their bottomline (see NY and Wisconsin).
-
im suprised by the amount of neo republican-conservatism on this board.
you want the government to provide your childrens education, but you dont want it to provide health care? which one is of more importance again?
you want it to make murder and rape illegal, but you dont want it to set limits on emissions of green house gases to protect the future of life on earth? is there any difference between those two?
you want business and people to have the freedom to screw over who ever the fuck they want, but you dont want people to be able to smoke weed or be homosexual?
big government is good where government can help
small government is good where government is necessary
no government is good where no government can help
freedoms should be as many as possible, excluding any action that would inhibit another from executing one of their freeedoms.
You just keep getting more and more stupid. You are so stupid and ignorant that you have no clue what a moron you really are. "Is there any difference between murder and rape and green house gases?" You so need to be euthanized so you don't risk infecting and polluting the gene pool. I'm just in a state of pure awe how someone can be so stupid and still manage to make to your age without drowning in a toilet or getting run over trying to cross a freeway.
-
well 90%+ of people support government education.. so.. :-*
LOL! The retard still speaks.
-
show you? as if there is polling done on that. it probably hasnt been an issue in an election for 200 years. the fact that the government ought to provide a standardized education for children was long ago established.
the article about the NYC fire stations closing? its a very good argument for regulation of financial markets and lending institutions. :)
So you admit you just made up that statistic. And the Dept. of Education was instituted during the regrettable Carter administration. The beginning of the end for public education.
Only a lobotomy at this point can raise your IQ.
-
You're right, I'm sure it is about 90% in the ghetto areas but the quality of education is low, not only because of the students but because of the teachers who don't give a shit about anything but a paycheck (see NY and Wisconsin).
Actually no. In the "ghettos" and Blacks in general support the voucher program so at least they have a chance and and opportunity to get their kids out of those hell holes. But the teacher's union... well Coach, I know I don't have to explain that to you and Tdumbz doesn't have the mental acuity to grasp even simple concepts. Can you believe how absolutely uninformed and just stupid he is? I thought he was just ignorant but he really lacks basic cognitive function. It must have been all those rec drugs that has fried in meager brain.
-
You just keep getting more and more stupid. You are so stupid and ignorant that you have no clue what a moron you really are. "Is there any difference between murder and rape and green house gases?" You so need to be euthanized so you don't risk infecting and polluting the gene pool. I'm just in a state of pure awe how someone can be so stupid and still manage to make to your age without drowning in a toilet or getting run over trying to cross a freeway.
Booom. That's a standing eight count, right there.
-
Here's a copy of my hospital bill from February 2011 for (left) total hip replacement.
The total is $135,927.70 Yes, that amount is obscene and shows how insanely out of whack US medical care cost have become. I was in the hospital a grand total of 29 - 30 hours. . . hours not days or weeks.
This bill does not include my doctor's fee or his assistants.
Including all pre-op examinations, post-op care (so far) the bill for my hip is slightly over $150,000. The absolute number of hours I have spent with doctors, therapist, radiologist, nurses, pharmacy visits, etc., is 35 -37 hours. Yes, they fixed me.
In Holland everybody is medically insured 100% all of the time.
We pay more taxes of course, but it's a nice idea anyway.
-
Show me..and don't give me some bullshit bias CNN or MSNBC poll. 90%..hahahaha, you're high. LOL. BTW, address the article I posted.
90% of the population can not afford privates schools ,that's a fact.
-
Coach got rich smuggling drugs from Mexico and now he's complaining about helping others with his tax $ ::)
Coach does not have the smarts to stay out of jail while doing something illegal. Pretty sure he does everythign by the book.
-
90% of the population can not afford privates schools ,that's a fact.
If you had vouchers you could.
And it's not because most can't afford private schools it's because public schools are cheaper.
Families routinely making a combine income in the six figures will still send their kids to public schools.