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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: gh15 on June 04, 2011, 09:52:20 PM
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the true defition of breaking through platue,,
this is again in regarding the known lie that plateau is breaken with new extra weight,,not the case!
platue in bodybuild is always breaken with the addition of hormones,,DOSES ,, and products when truly advanced bodybuild,,
when you maxed at trenbolona and propionets at 200lb 6% ,,only thing that will push you to 220 6% will be addition of testosterona with longer esters and gh ,, ofcourse there is small brekas in platue and big breaks,,
the higher the bodyfat is the smaler the break will be and should be ,, the lower bodyfat is the bigger the break wil be and should be ,,
example ,,from trenbolona ace and propioneta at respecivly 100mg/150mg every 2 day of each ,,200lb 6% bodybuild should break the latue with 1-1.5 gram of testosterona longer easter or sustanona with adujstable dose of legit hgh,, this will take the bodybuld to new 220lb 6% status
if bodybuild is 205lb 10% he should break the platue with lighter doses since he is smaller than the 200lb 6%,,he should add testosterona and gh at lower doses inorder to work on the quality along with the size,,it wil be a slower process of growth but it can be done at higher bodyfat it just need to be tackled with LOWER DOSES
the fellas who need to blast on doses are the lower bodyfat fellas,,the ones who start 6-7% they will have the biggest break in platue and the most gained lean muscle with no fat when gh is in,,
so to conclude this ,,
breaking of platue has nothing to do with weights,,the weights increase come when the body is primed to growth and start growing even if not completely noticable yet,,but the major part of the equation si to increaese doses of testosterona to the grams ,,and yes i mean 1-2 grams ,,it is nothing ,,1-2 grams its nothing comparing to 2-3 grams many do ,,then ofcourse the higher grams the more gh you need so make sure you have enough legit gh if you decide to work with 2-3 grams,,1-1.5 grams a week go well with 6-12 iu a day ,, over 1.5 grams need more gh to unilize most efficiently ,,15 iu gh come with 1.5-3 grams testosterona,,and ofcourse 20-30 and over come with insulina and insulina is always there
ok hope this is understood,,also dont evrr forget your anabolics,,it is very importanto to make sure the anabolics are there big time ,,you want to put eq 300 mg inject together with nppiona 100 mg inject in same syrnge and shoot ,,you want to ad trenboolona and little masterona on the other ass cheek ,, so you dont get too soft and that you have the nasty factor that only trenbolona gives,,remember that pupils
gh15 approved
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I am putting my fucking foot down. You do not break through plateaus by adding more juice you fucking monkey. There are MANY ways to do it, and what do you do for a natural trainer?
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he injure himself!,,there is no natural bodybuild ,,i said it over and over,,no true naturals,,
breaking through platue and actualy growing ,,is only a matter of legit doses of hormones,,
the faster you get it the better bodybuild you will be
gh15 approved
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I am putting my fucking foot down. You do not break through plateaus by adding more juice you fucking monkey. There are MANY ways to do it, and what do you do for a natural trainer?
:P x2
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Well upping the dose is surely a way and probably the easiest and fastest, but i don't know if it is the smartest way to up your dose for every plateau.
There's surely other possibilities.
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this is not regarding upping platue of weight that is stuck on a barbell and you try to lift heavier!!,, this is platue of bodybuild stuck in same lean size and can not improve,,it is regarding the bodybuild look not regarding what the bodybuild can lift,,
as it was mentioned before
STRENGTH DOES NOT = MUSCLE SIZE!
matt c would have been mr o if it was the case,, and i bring matt c because name is catchy ,,but lay nortin would hav ebeen mr o if strength was = muscle size,,
usually the stronger fellas are the stiffier ones,,the ones who their muscles are not well bellied ,,
the breaking platue is inregard to bodybuild look aka weight and size! mainly size because weight by itself mean nothing,,size ,,conditioned size ! thats what its about
gh15 approved
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this is not regarding upping platue of weight that is stuck on a barbell and you try to lift heavier!!,, this is platue of bodybuild stuck in same lean size and can not improve,,it is regarding the bodybuild look not regarding what the bodybuild can lift,,
as it was mentioned before
STRENGTH DOES NOT = MUSCLE SIZE!
matt c would have been mr o if it was the case,, and i bring matt c because name is catchy ,,but lay nortin would hav ebeen mr o if strength was = muscle size,,
usually the stronger fellas are the stiffier ones,,the ones who their muscles are not well bellied ,,
the breaking platue is inregard to bodybuild look aka weight and size! mainly size because weight by itself mean nothing,,size ,,conditioned size ! thats what its about
gh15 approved
Matt C is actually pretty weak & has zero muscles. All "retard strength".
...But I agree with the rest. "Natural" trainers hit plateaus quickly, and almost never break free of them. When they try, they get injured. There's almost no way to argue against this.
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Matt C is actually pretty weak & has zero muscles. All "retard strength".
...But I agree with the rest. "Natural" trainers hit plateaus quickly, and almost never break free of them. When they try, they get injured. There's almost no way to argue against this.
Nothing to argue with this, as a natural, you will hit a plateau one day.
You might think you can break it, eat more, get fatter and think you did it, but when you diet down, you're were you were before.
In this regard, it's really a question of doing steroids or not.
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Matt C is actually pretty weak & has zero muscles. All "retard strength".
...But I agree with the rest. "Natural" trainers hit plateaus quickly, and almost never break free of them. When they try, they get injured. There's almost no way to argue against this.
Pure idiocy contained in this post.
Find me a natural, hell ten naturals who have hit a plateau and I will see them through it WITHOUT DRUGS.
What the fuck is wrong with you people???
When I was a kid I hit plateaus all the time and crushed them! That's how you fucking grow people! I didn't touch gear till I was 22 or so, and even up till that time I never had an issue growing. I was 110lbs when I was 14 and 230 at 22, never during that time did I ever stop growing and I have only one injury in my life, an ankle I sprained about 7 weeks ago trying to catch a fucking train.
You fucking people amaze me.
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Pure idiocy contained in this post.
Find me a natural, hell ten naturals who have hit a plateau and I will see them through it WITHOUT DRUGS.
What the fuck is wrong with you people???
When I was a kid I hit plateaus all the time and crushed them! That's how you fucking grow people! I didn't touch gear till I was 22 or so, and even up till that time I never had an issue growing. I was 110lbs when I was 14 and 230 at 22, never during that time did I ever stop growing and I have only one injury in my life, an ankle I sprained about 7 weeks ago trying to catch a fucking train.
You fucking people amaze me.
Dick cheese - you got fatter you did not grow more muscle - HTH ::)
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Dick cheese - you got fatter you did not grow more muscle - HTH ::)
Keep telling yourself I am an internet liar and that any weight I gained was bodyfat. That will quiet the insecurities, if only for tonight, right?
Right?
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Keep telling yourself I am an internet liar and that any weight I gained was bodyfat. That will quiet the insecurities, if only for tonight, right?
Right?
No dude its fact - you get to a certain point as a natural where muscular bodyweight just stops and any weight gained is a combo of water fat and maybe if you are lucky a few more ounces of lean tissue - thats when its time to jump on the hormone train.. do most naturals ever reach there full genetic potential ? i would say no - but you have stated you trained with full on intensity and followed the right diet so once at that level it is game over for more lean tissue unless of course you look to the pharma route be it AAS or pro hormones/steroids
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Keep telling yourself I am an internet liar and that any weight I gained was bodyfat. That will quiet the insecurities, if only for tonight, right?
Right?
Well obviously after you start training you gain a certain amount of muscle, reach plateaus and break them, and gain some more muscle, but seriously, how much will that be?
I think that if a natural gains 10-15kg from where he originally started, it's as good as it gets. Maybe some people are able to gain 20kg if they started really small and skinny, but after that you will only be able to progress with steroids.
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Natural limits are VERY strict, and there's simply no way to bust through 'the final plateau' without jumping on some kind of exogenous hormone. One can try, but will simply end up fat, ugly, and injured.
That. Fucking. Simple.
"MethylMike" is a liar and a halfwit, by the way. Has he not read the bible?!? :o
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Well obviously after you start training you gain a certain amount of muscle, reach plateaus and break them, and gain some more muscle, but seriously, how much will that be?
I think that if a natural gains 10-15kg from where he originally started, it's as good as it gets. Maybe some people are able to gain 20kg if they started really small and skinny, but after that you will only be able to progress with steroids.
Good post
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I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth mentioning again. Back in the 1980s when aas was legal and you could get them from a doctor one of the main doctors at the time, Dr. Walzak (sp?), who had an office in Sherman Oaks and catered to all the major bodybuilders from Redondo Beach on up North, whereas that other more famous Dr. (I forget his name lol) took care of everybody in Orange County on South, gave an informal seminar in our gym regarding steroids. He was very good friends with the owner of our gym in Torrance, CA, Mr. Barlow. I was pretty naive at the time and it was only years later that I found out they were a couple of old queens deep in the schmoe business.
His protocol was that you need at the very least, 3 years of hard serious training, but preferred five years. Obviously, if you start at 12 years old he doesn't believe you should be on hormones at 17 yrs. but gave an ideal as someone who starts at say 14-15 and trains consistently and seriously. Then by the time he's 19-20 he's ready to see him. He believe that if you know what you are doing and train correctly and get the proper rest and nutrition you will max out muscle size wise after about at most five years though most max out sooner. You can make dramatic changes in body weight but very little in actual muscle.
Someone asked him about cycling. How long one should stay on AAS before going off and allowing the body to "normalize." He kind of smiled and said that you stay on for as long as you want to keep on growing. "But what about this 6-8 week cycles and then taking 6-8 weeks off to allow your body to "fire back up" it's nature production and allow the "receptors" to "freshen" up?" He just shook his head and said nonsense.
He put it like this: Say you are at a certain weight, maybe 180 lbs, and you maintain that weight eating 2,500 calories a day. If you want to gain weight you have to increase those calories. And say you increase those calories by 1000 your weight will increase up to a point, say 200 lbs before it stabilizes. Now if you "cycle" and go back down to 2,500 calories your weight will slowly drop back down to your original 180 lbs. You have to maintain that new 3,500 calories if you want to maintain the 200 lb body weight. Now if you want to continue to gain more you then have to increase your calories even further.
Though he admitted it wasn't a perfect analogy he really wanted to drive home the point that even under idea conditions you will reach a natural limit in muscle size fairly quickly. If you want to increase muscle mass after reaching your natural limit you have to take AAS. And taking a certain amount will get you to a certain size tough it varies among individuals. When you go off, or cycle, you will simply go back down to your original nature limit of muscle size just like your weight will go back down to 180 lbs when you go back down to your original 2,500 caloric intake. He pointed out that it doesn't necessarily mean you will lose weight, though eventually you will, but that you will lose muscle size. That's what is happening when trainees say that they maintain their body weight, even most of their strength, when off they just get softer. It really means that they are slowly losing muscle and the softness comes from the increase fat due to the caloric intake not being reduced.
So he believed that if you want to go this route you better be willing to be in it for the long haul because you should never go off. He believed that cycling was actually bad for the body. The constant hormonal fluctuations. You either decide you want to be an enhance bodybuilder and exceed your natural limits or stay a natural and accept your natural limits. If you want to continue to grow beyond your natural limits you have to take anabolic compounds and when you go off you will lose all your gains eventually.
And just like you will reach a sticking point in weight at a certain caloric surplus and have to further increase caloric consumption if you want to gain still more weight. You will also reach a sticking point at a certain level of anabolic dosage and will have to increase that dosage if you want to make further gains.
In summary, once you have training, nutrition and rest down pat and know what you are doing you will reach a nature limit very fast. And it won't be much. He estimated maybe 20 pounds at most for someone around 5'9 or 5'10. This is 20 pounds of real lean muscle tissue. After that it's how much anabolics you ingest.
Now this was back in the early 1980s, I think it was 1983, where everybody talked in terms of cycling, as they still do now. But he was pretty clear: adding anabolic compounds is absolutely necessary to increase muscle growth beyond normal levels, increase dosage if you want to get larger, and you will start to lose muscle when you go off no matter what you do and eventually lose everything if you go off completely. And off course caloric intake and training is a given.
His starting protocol was 200mg of Deca and 3 Ciba dianabol tablets, 15mg/day. He did recommend cycling orals only because of liver health. And you just go from there. No testosterona was mentioned.
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Well obviously after you start training you gain a certain amount of muscle, reach plateaus and break them, and gain some more muscle, but seriously, how much will that be?
I think that if a natural gains 10-15kg from where he originally started, it's as good as it gets. Maybe some people are able to gain 20kg if they started really small and skinny, but after that you will only be able to progress with steroids.
I truly do not believe this. Obviously muscle becomes harder to come by, but one can always be growing. Maybe less than you'd like...And also, GH15 did not say this was "busting through the limits of natural growth", he is saying if you aren't growing on juice the only answer is- MORE JUICE!!! Let's not examine diet, training, rest and recovery etc. NO NO NO- UP THE DOSAGE!!!
What a load of crap.
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I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth mentioning again. Back in the 1980s when aas was legal and you could get them from a doctor one of the main doctors at the time, Dr. Walzak (sp?), who had an office in Woodland Hills and catered to all the major bodybuilders from Redondo Beach on up North, whereas that other more famous Dr. (I forget his name lol) took care of everybody in Orange County on South, gave an informal seminar in our gym regarding steroids. He was very good friends with the owner of out gym in Torrance, CA, Mr. Barlow. I was pretty naive at the time and it was only years later that I found out they were a couple of old queens deep in the schmoe business.
His protocol was that you need at the very least, 3 years of hard serious training, but preferred five years. Obviously, if you start at 12 years old he doesn't believe you should be on hormones at 17 yrs. but gave an ideal as someone who starts at say 14-15 and trains consistently and seriously. Then by the time he's 19-20 he's ready to see him. He believe that if you know what you are doing and train correctly and get the proper rest and nutrition you will max out muscle size wise after about at most five years though most max out sooner. You can make dramatic changes in body weight but very little in actual muscle.
Someone asked him about cycling. How long one should stay on AAS before going off and allowing the body to "normalize." He kind of smiled and said that you stay on for as long as you want to keep on growing. "But what about this 6-8 week cycles and then taking 6-8 weeks off to allow your body to "fire back up" it's nature production and allow the "receptors" to "freshen" up?" He just shook his head and said nonsense.
He put it like this: Say you are at a certain weight, maybe 180 lbs, and you maintain that weight eating 2,500 calories a day. If you want to gain weight you have to increase those calories. And say you increase those calories by 1000 your weight will increase up to a point, say 200 lbs before it stabilizes. Now if you "cycle" and go back down to 2,500 calories your weight will slowly drop back down to your original 180 lbs. You have to maintain that new 3,500 calories if you want to maintain the 200 lb body weight. Now if you want to continue to gain more you then have to increase your calories even further.
Though he admitted it wasn't a perfect analogy he really wanted to drive home the point that even under idea conditions you will reach a natural limit in muscle size fairly quickly. If you want to increase muscle mass after reaching your natural limit you have to take AAS. And taking a certain amount will get you to a certain size tough it varies among individuals. When you go off, or cycle, you will simply go back down to your original nature limit of muscle size just like your weight will go back down to 180 lbs when you go back down to your original 2,500 caloric intake. He pointed out that it doesn't necessarily mean you will lose weight, though eventually you will, but that you will lose muscle size. That's what is happening when trainees say that they maintain their body weight, even most of their strength, when off they just get softer. It really means that they are slowly losing muscle and the softness comes from the increase fat due to the caloric intake not being reduced.
So he believed that if you want to go this route you better be willing to be in it for the long haul because you should never go off. He believed that cycling was actually bad for the body. The constant hormonal fluctuations. You either decide you want to be an enhance bodybuilder and exceed your natural limits or stay a natural and accept your natural limits. If you want to continue to grow beyond your natural limits you have to take anabolic compounds and when you go off you will lose all your gains eventually.
And just like you will reach a sticking point in weight at a certain caloric surplus and have to further increase caloric consumption if you want to gain still more weight. You will also reach a sticking point at a certain level of anabolic dosage and will have to increase that dosage if you want to make further gains.
In summary, once you have training, nutrition and rest down pat and know what you are doing you will reach a nature limit very fast. And it won't be much. He estimated maybe 20 pounds at most for someone around 5'9 or 5'10. This is 20 pounds of real lean muscle tissue. After that it's how much anabolics you ingest.
Now this was back in the early 1980s, I think it was 1983, where everybody talked in terms of cycling, as they still do now. But he was pretty clear: adding anabolic compounds is absolutely necessary to increase muscle growth beyond normal levels, increase dosage if you want to get larger, and you will start to lose muscle when you go off no matter what you do and eventually lose everything if you go off completely. And off course caloric intake and training is a given.
His starting protocol was 200mg of Deca and 3 Ciba dianabol tablets, 15mg/day. He did recommend cycling orals only because of liver health. And you just go from there. No testosterona was mentioned.
Brilliant post. Thanks for that.
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I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth mentioning again. Back in the 1980s when aas was legal and you could get them from a doctor one of the main doctors at the time, Dr. Walzak (sp?), who had an office in Woodland Hills and catered to all the major bodybuilders from Redondo Beach on up North, whereas that other more famous Dr. (I forget his name lol) took care of everybody in Orange County on South, gave an informal seminar in our gym regarding steroids. He was very good friends with the owner of out gym in Torrance, CA, Mr. Barlow. I was pretty naive at the time and it was only years later that I found out they were a couple of old queens deep in the schmoe business.
His protocol was that you need at the very least, 3 years of hard serious training, but preferred five years. Obviously, if you start at 12 years old he doesn't believe you should be on hormones at 17 yrs. but gave an ideal as someone who starts at say 14-15 and trains consistently and seriously. Then by the time he's 19-20 he's ready to see him. He believe that if you know what you are doing and train correctly and get the proper rest and nutrition you will max out muscle size wise after about at most five years though most max out sooner. You can make dramatic changes in body weight but very little in actual muscle.
Someone asked him about cycling. How long one should stay on AAS before going off and allowing the body to "normalize." He kind of smiled and said that you stay on for as long as you want to keep on growing. "But what about this 6-8 week cycles and then taking 6-8 weeks off to allow your body to "fire back up" it's nature production and allow the "receptors" to "freshen" up?" He just shook his head and said nonsense.
He put it like this: Say you are at a certain weight, maybe 180 lbs, and you maintain that weight eating 2,500 calories a day. If you want to gain weight you have to increase those calories. And say you increase those calories by 1000 your weight will increase up to a point, say 200 lbs before it stabilizes. Now if you "cycle" and go back down to 2,500 calories your weight will slowly drop back down to your original 180 lbs. You have to maintain that new 3,500 calories if you want to maintain the 200 lb body weight. Now if you want to continue to gain more you then have to increase your calories even further.
Though he admitted it wasn't a perfect analogy he really wanted to drive home the point that even under idea conditions you will reach a natural limit in muscle size fairly quickly. If you want to increase muscle mass after reaching your natural limit you have to take AAS. And taking a certain amount will get you to a certain size tough it varies among individuals. When you go off, or cycle, you will simply go back down to your original nature limit of muscle size just like your weight will go back down to 180 lbs when you go back down to your original 2,500 caloric intake. He pointed out that it doesn't necessarily mean you will lose weight, though eventually you will, but that you will lose muscle size. That's what is happening when trainees say that they maintain their body weight, even most of their strength, when off they just get softer. It really means that they are slowly losing muscle and the softness comes from the increase fat due to the caloric intake not being reduced.
So he believed that if you want to go this route you better be willing to be in it for the long haul because you should never go off. He believed that cycling was actually bad for the body. The constant hormonal fluctuations. You either decide you want to be an enhance bodybuilder and exceed your natural limits or stay a natural and accept your natural limits. If you want to continue to grow beyond your natural limits you have to take anabolic compounds and when you go off you will lose all your gains eventually.
And just like you will reach a sticking point in weight at a certain caloric surplus and have to further increase caloric consumption if you want to gain still more weight. You will also reach a sticking point at a certain level of anabolic dosage and will have to increase that dosage if you want to make further gains.
In summary, once you have training, nutrition and rest down pat and know what you are doing you will reach a nature limit very fast. And it won't be much. He estimated maybe 20 pounds at most for someone around 5'9 or 5'10. This is 20 pounds of real lean muscle tissue. After that it's how much anabolics you ingest.
Now this was back in the early 1980s, I think it was 1983, where everybody talked in terms of cycling, as they still do now. But he was pretty clear: adding anabolic compounds is absolutely necessary to increase muscle growth beyond normal levels, increase dosage if you want to get larger, and you will start to lose muscle when you go off no matter what you do and eventually lose everything if you go off completely. And off course caloric intake and training is a given.
His starting protocol was 200mg of Deca and 3 Ciba dianabol tablets, 15mg/day. He did recommend cycling orals only because of liver health. And you just go from there. No testosterona was mentioned.
This is a load of crap! If you train while on gear and build muscle, you do not lose it because you go off cycle. If this were true, I would have slowly disintegrated after I came off. My bodyweight shot down to around 205-210, and after some time back up into the 220's. I now weigh in the low 200's without even working out, pretty lean maybe 9-10%. Before I dieted down I maintained the 220's for YEARS.
Steroids build permanent muscle if you train properly.
I just hate this entire thread, and the attitude of the forum is sickening to say the least.
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This is a load of crap! If you train while on gear and build muscle, you do not lose it because you go off cycle. If this were true, I would have slowly disintegrated after I came off. My bodyweight shot down to around 205-210, and after some time back up into the 220's. I now weigh in the low 200's without even working out, pretty lean maybe 9-10%. Before I dieted down I maintained the 220's for YEARS.
Steroids build permanent muscle if you train properly.
I just hate this entire thread, and the attitude of the forum is sickening to say the least.
::)
Pretty tough for you to come to terms with the truth, eh? It sounds as though you HAVE slowly disintegrated after you came off... After all, you're not sitting at a lean 230lbs anymore, are you? Besides, have you seen what happens to pros (and regular people) who were on juice for a while and then go off?
You need to try to wrap your head around the true nature of things. Steroid gains are not forever, but steroids are the ONLY way to attain a respectable 200lb+ physique.
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Bodyweight doesn't say too much, coz the difference btw say 200 @ 15% compared to 200 @ 6% is a HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE. Anyways, that was a great post pellius.
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This is a load of crap! If you train while on gear and build muscle, you do not lose it because you go off cycle. If this were true, I would have slowly disintegrated after I came off. My bodyweight shot down to around 205-210, and after some time back up into the 220's. I now weigh in the low 200's without even working out, pretty lean maybe 9-10%. Before I dieted down I maintained the 220's for YEARS.
Steroids build permanent muscle if you train properly.
I just hate this entire thread, and the attitude of the forum is sickening to say the least.
oh FFS give it a rest dude - you are deluded full stop ::)
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This is a load of crap! If you train while on gear and build muscle, you do not lose it because you go off cycle. If this were true, I would have slowly disintegrated after I came off. My bodyweight shot down to around 205-210, and after some time back up into the 220's. I now weigh in the low 200's without even working out, pretty lean maybe 9-10%. Before I dieted down I maintained the 220's for YEARS.
Steroids build permanent muscle if you train properly.
I just hate this entire thread, and the attitude of the forum is sickening to say the least.
One of the few things I really like about bodybuilding is that it is very easy to evaluate the claims people make. Methyl Mike, you have been training for quite a while haven't you? Many years as I recall. And you have hit plateaus all the time and "crushed them." Can you post a picture and show us the level you have achieve after all these plateau crushing years?
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Bodyweight doesn't say too much, coz the difference btw say 200 @ 15% compared to 200 @ 6% is a HUGE, HUGE DIFFERENCE. Anyways, that was a great post pellius.
I'm just parroting a doctor who has very involved with world class bodybuilders for very many years. None of this is my original thought or discovery.
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One of the few things I really like about bodybuilding is that it is very easy to evaluate the claims people make. Methyl Mike, you have been training for quite a while haven't you? Many years as I recall. And you have hit plateaus all the time and "crushed them." Can you post a picture and show us the level you have achieve after all these plateau crushing years?
My picture would do what? I would get criticized and bashed to pieces. Tell you what, if you are in the San Jose, CA area, we can train, and you can tell me what you think. Pictures mean shit. My goals are different now than from when I was in my early 20's, people change. I have never lied and have no need to, and you can say whatever you want, it will not change anything.
When I was younger I hit sticking points and came up with creative ways to beat them. At one time that meant drinking pwo shakes made up of whey isolate, Mrs Butterworths syrup (pure sugar no fat) and some creatine/glutamine. I upped the calories and trained harder, including triple drop sets and a lot of tri-sets for quads arms and chest. Always experimenting.
It is clear some of you have deeply rooted beliefs, and I feel this is dangerous. The thinking here seems to be that you can not achieve much without drugs, and that the answer to getting bigger is always more drugs, and I would bet good money the guys whose opinions matter most (pro bodybuilders) would strongly disagree with this thinking. But then again, to you guys they are all huge drug abusers so you likely would never listen.
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And for the record I do have above average genetics, so it may be that I grow easier than others, but I still believe I am right.
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My picture would do what? I would get criticized and bashed to pieces. Tell you what, if you are in the San Jose, CA area, we can train, and you can tell me what you think. Pictures mean shit. My goals are different now than from when I was in my early 20's, people change. I have never lied and have no need to, and you can say whatever you want, it will not change anything.
When I was younger I hit sticking points and came up with creative ways to beat them. At one time that meant drinking pwo shakes made up of whey isolate, Mrs Butterworths syrup (pure sugar no fat) and some creatine/glutamine. I upped the calories and trained harder, including triple drop sets and a lot of tri-sets for quads arms and chest. Always experimenting.
It is clear some of you have deeply rooted beliefs, and I feel this is dangerous. The thinking here seems to be that you can not achieve much without drugs, and that the answer to getting bigger is always more drugs, and I would bet good money the guys whose opinions matter most (pro bodybuilders) would strongly disagree with this thinking. But then again, to you guys they are all huge drug abusers so you likely would never listen.
Your picture will show us what you have achieved and give you credibility. This is bodybuilding and it is very easy to evaluate a person's level. When someone makes a claim that they have crushed plateaus for years you would expect some appreciable level of development. When they speak with the authority that you do, and the claims that you make, it is not unreasonable to ask you to back it up. If you are built like Dennis James we have to conclude that somewhere down the road you did something right. If you are built like Melvin Goodrum then perhaps you should be a bit more humble.
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And for the record I do have above average genetics, so it may be that I grow easier than others, but I still believe I am right.
Will you be willing to show us how far your above average genetics and plateau crushing training has gotten you?
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Your picture will show us what you have achieved and give you credibility. This is bodybuilding and it is very easy to evaluate a person's level. When someone makes a claim that they have crushed plateaus for years you would expect some appreciable level of development. When they speak with the authority that you do, and the claims that you make, it is not unreasonable to ask you to back it up. If you are built like Dennis James we have to conclude that somewhere down the road you did something right. If you are built like Melvin Goodrum then perhaps you should be a bit more humble.
Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?
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Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?
At 30 years old, you should be in your prime. If you've managed to advance so much, and are so confident and certain of yourself, what do you have to fear?
Surely you must have a mighty physique!! How else on earth could you be so confident when opinion is unanimously against you, and when every piece of evidence out there contradicts you?
BTW, have you seen Chris Cormier lately? Sure, buddy, steroids build permanent muscle..... ::)
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At 30 years old, you should be in your prime. If you've managed to advance so much, and are so confident and certain of yourself, what do you have to fear?
Surely you must have a mighty physique!! How else on earth could you be so confident when opinion is unanimously against you, and when every piece of evidence out there contradicts you?
BTW, have you seen Chris Cormier lately? Sure, buddy, steroids build permanent muscle..... ::)
Prime is relative. If I had been training consistently, I would look very different.
How hard is that to understand?
And what opinion is against me? A few random anonymous people online? I could give a shit less.
I try to speak the truth, and if that isn't good enough for you keep listening to the bullshitters and doing whatever it is that you do.
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I can only speak from my personal experience, but all the "natural bodybuilders" i run across only got fatter when they tell me that they are "225lbs" now.
They don't even look better, just fatter, if they would go down to contest shape they would be somewhere around 70-75kg, no matter if they started at 100kg with the diet or 85.
Another factor is that the natural guy dieting down from 100kg will NEVER get in shape, because he will lose so much muscle during the diet that he will end up skinnier than the 85kg guy, although he might hold 5kg more muscle before dieting.
I think it is bullshit that steroids build permanent muscle. Not even natural training builds permanent muscle, if you slack with your training or diet the muscle will be gone, albeit the natural muscle will be much harder to get back again.
BUT, all ex-juicers that i have ever met in my life that kept training had a far better body than people who had never touched steroids in their lives (but maybe they were on low dose test, i don't know).
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I can only speak from my personal experience, but all the "natural bodybuilders" i run across only got fatter when they tell me that they are "225lbs" now.
They don't even look better, just fatter, if they would go down to contest shape they would be somewhere around 70-75kg, no matter if they started at 100kg with the diet or 85.
Another factor is that the natural guy dieting down from 100kg will NEVER get in shape, because he will lose so much muscle during the diet that he will end up skinnier than the 85kg guy, although he might hold 5kg more muscle before dieting.
I think it is bullshit that steroids build permanent muscle. Not even natural training builds permanent muscle, if you slack with your training or diet the muscle will be gone, albeit the natural muscle will be much harder to get back again.
BUT, all ex-juicers that i have ever met in my life that kept training had a far better body than people who had never touched steroids in their lives (but maybe they were on low dose test, i don't know).
Natural muscle stays.
I think a natural can keep about 80% of his muscle if he completely stops lifting, as long as he keeps his diet solid.
I never see natural lifters shrink way down. They always keep like 80% of their size.
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Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?
If I constantly gave out financial advice and plans and strategies to achieve great wealth it would not be unreasonable for someone to expect that I have in some fashion achieve some level of financial success.
Ah, but you have been out of training. Not currently in shape. Such is often the case. Perhaps you have something when you were at your pristine shape. Of course, not pro level. We understand that. Just what your years of plateau breaking above average genetics will allow.
Like I said before, proof is in the pudding. And in regard to bodybuilding it is very easy to ascertain.
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Blah, blah, blah. Do you ever get tired of all the hot air you spout!?
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A mature natural (> 25 yo) will plateau within 2 years of training. You may have an untapped 5% remaining, but it's safer to think in terms of longevity at that point. Clean up your diet and enjoy your 20 lb lean muscle advantage over "average" people.
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Natural muscle stays.
I think a natural can keep about 80% of his muscle if he completely stops lifting, as long as he keeps his diet solid.
I never see natural lifters shrink way down. They always keep like 80% of their size.
From my own personal experience, I can stay at roughly the same body weight once I stop training regularly and consistently, but my body comp will change rather drastically. For example, I will go from a trained state of 160 @ 8% to an untrained state of 160 at 12-14% and this really ends up making quite a big difference in my apperance, even though I'm roughly sitting at the same bodyweight.
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From my own personal experience, I can stay at roughly the same body weight once I stop training regularly and consistently, but my body comp will change rather drastically. For example, I will go from a trained state of 160 @ 8% to an untrained state of 160 at 12-14% and this really ends up making quite a big difference in my apperance, even though I'm roughly sitting at the same bodyweight.
Same here. If I totally quit lifting i'll only lose like 10% of my muscle, but i'll lose sharpness and bf% goes up.
But the muscle stays, it doesn't go anywhere.
I only lose my muscle when I start eating a lot less food. Food is the key to keeping the muscle.
When I got backpacking and i'm hiking all day and only eating like 2 meals per day, that's when I lose muscle.
If i'm just chilling and eating 4x per day the muscle stays.
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From my own personal experience, I can stay at roughly the same body weight once I stop training regularly and consistently, but my body comp will change rather drastically. For example, I will go from a trained state of 160 @ 8% to an untrained state of 160 at 12-14% and this really ends up making quite a big difference in my apperance, even though I'm roughly sitting at the same bodyweight.
Yes, and if you analyze it it means you lost muscle and gained fat.
Natural muscle will go away very quickly, hard to understand for a guy like Blakfag who doesn't have any muscle in the first place.
Same here. If I totally quit lifting i'll lose like 10% of my muscle, but i'l lose sharpness and bf% goes up.
But the muscle stays, it doesn't go anywhere.
I only lose my muscle when I start eating a lot less food. Food is the key to keeping the muscle.
Bullshit, you idiot.
If you stay at the same body weight but gain fat, what has happened?? TRAINING is the key to muscle, if you don't train, your body will break down the muscle.
If the muscle is not needed, it will go away, anything else would be idiotic survival-wise.
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Yes, and if you analyze it it means you lost muscle and gained fat.
Natural muscle will go away very quickly, hard to understand for a guy like Blakfag who doesn't have any muscle in the first place.
Bullshit, you idiot.
If you stay at the same body weight but gain fat, what has happened?? TRAINING is the key to muscle, if you don't train, your body will break down the muscle.
If the muscle is not needed, it will go away, anything else would be idiotic survival-wise.
You are one of those guys who got on steroids, so now he downplays the results that can be achieved through natural lifting.
I've seen it with my own 2 eyes thousands of times. When guys gain a lot of natural size, they keep almost all of it for years and years even if they stop lifting. Real life examples. Not just theories and bro-science.
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You are one of those guys who got on steroids, so now he downplays the results that can be achieved through natural lifting.
I've seen it with my own 2 eyes thousands of times. When guys gain a lot of natural size, they keep almost all of it for years and years even if they stop lifting. Real life examples. Not just theories and bro-science.
I don't downplay anything, you don't even look like you workout.
Working out, with steroids or without for decades will have an impact on the body, but it's total utter bullshit that any of it stays once you stop lifting.
100s of professional athletes and bodybuilders are a good example. People who used to do sports for decades also get in shape much faster after they stopped for a few years.
But was is the same for naturals and steroid users is, once you stop using the muscle, it will go away. If you switch from weightlifting to swimming, cycling or running, you might be able to keep a lot of muscle, but once you stop, it will go away.
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I don't downplay anything, you don't even look like you workout.
Working out, with steroids or without for decades will have an impact on the body, but it's total utter bullshit that any of it stays once you stop lifting.
100s of professional athletes and bodybuilders are a good example. People who used to do sports for decades also get in shape much faster after they stopped for a few years.
But was is the same for naturals and steroid users is, once you stop using the muscle, it will go away. If you switch from weightlifting to swimming, cycling or running, you might be able to keep a lot of muscle, but once you stop, it will go away.
Your theory contradicts what i've seen in real life thousands of times.
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Your theory contradicts what i've seen in real life thousands of times.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Whatever dude, i don't give a shit what you think anyways.
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::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Whatever dude, i don't give a shit what you think anyways.
:'(
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:'(
Come on, i mean you don't even look like you work out, you don't go to the gym and you obviously have no clue about training. You have never been in shape in your life.
A few days ago you were whining about how much muscle (that you don't even have) you lost after getting the flu, now you tell me "natural muscle is permanent".
guys like dj181 have been in shape and tell you they lose the muscle, i myself have 10 years of natural training on my back without major breaks. I know a lot about plateaus and natural limits.
You're just a troll talking out of your ass, with no experience at all. Just go to some big sports event one time in your life and look at all the people that were professionals in the 80s and how they look like today.
Oh yeah, meltdown. ;D ;D
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Come on, i mean you don't even look like you work out, you don't go to the gym and you obviously have no clue about training. You have never been in shape in your life.
A few days ago you were whining about how much muscle (that you don't even have) you lost after getting the flu, now you tell me "natural muscle is permanent".
guys like dj181 have been in shape and tell you they lose the muscle, i myself have 10 years of natural training on my back without major breaks. I know a lot about plateaus and natural limits.
You're just a troll talking out of your ass, with no experience at all. Just go to some big sports event one time in your life and look at all the people that were professionals in the 80s and how they look like today.
Oh yeah, meltdown. ;D ;D
I lost a lot of weight and muscle when I had tonsillitis and a high fever and barely ate anything for 6 days, that's true.
But now i've already gained most of it back. I'm eating lots of food and started lifting again. i'll have all the muscle back by next month.
Natural muscles stays. Lack of food will make you lose it. But if you keep the food intake up and stay healthy you won't lose it.
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Yes, and if you analyze it it means you lost muscle and gained fat.
Natural muscle will go away very quickly
Exactly! 160 @ 8%=147 LBM and 160 @ 14%=137 LBM, so that"s a 10 pound decrease in lean body mass which is really quite alot when you think about it, especially when you take into consideration the fact that skin, organs and bones count as lean body mass within the following equation.
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You do lose SOME muscle when you stop lifting. I'm not claiming you keep all of it.
But I do think most people keep about 80-90% of it.
Lost of people here talk as though you will lose most of it or almost all of it. I think this is simply bullshit.
Almost all my American buddies lift weights and the naturals always look about the same size. The only ones i've seen shrink way down are the guys who blew up on gear and then went off.
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I lost a lot of weight and muscle when I had tonsillitis and a high fever and barely ate anything for 6 days, that's true.
But now i've already gained most of it back. I'm eating lots of food and started lifting again. i'll have all the muscle back by next month.
Natural muscles stays. Lack of food will make you lose it. But if you keep the food intake up and stay healthy you won't lose it.
Maybe you should try and get some muscle in the first place, that would help you understand a little about it.
Exactly! 160 @ 8%=147 LBM and 160 @ 14%=137 LBM, so that"s a 10 pound decrease in lean body mass which is really quite alot when you think about it, especially when you take into consideration the fact that skin, organs and bones count as lean body mass within the following equation.
Yes, and when you diet down from 14% to 8% again, you will lose more muscle in the process.
Natural bodybuilding is really for retards and masochists, if you want a nice beach body i wouldn't bother with steroids, but if you want to impress, there's no way around them.
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You do lose SOME muscle when you stop lifting. I'm not claiming you keep all of it.
But I do think most people keep about 80-90% of it.
Lost of people here talk as though you will lose most of it or almost all of it. I think this is simply bullshit.
Almost all my American buddies lift weights and the naturals always look about the same size. The only ones i've seen shrink way down are the guys who blew up on gear and then went off.
Most confuse water gain with muscle gain.
Sure you "lose" a lot of weight, and also the fullness of the muscle, that's just because on steroids your body is able to hold more glycogen and water.
But there's no way to come around the fast that steroids change the way you look forever.
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And for the record I do have above average genetics, so it may be that I grow easier than others, but I still believe I am right.
hahaha no you dont - the pics you posted you look below average and where was the muscle that you never lose after stopping steroids ? ::) I know when I brought this up a few weeks ago you *claimed* all you were doing was cardio - bullshit I remember you talking about your lifting scedule and how you were doing it but struggling because of school etc so you blaimed that for not eating right which again is shit it was lack of discipline - you were skinny fat and did not look like you had ever been to a gym but in this thread you claim you keep all the muscle you gain on steroids haha no you dont dummy - scale weight is BS and going on those pics you posted you dont even train ??? repost them go on ::)
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hahaha no you dont - the pics you posted you look below average and where was the muscle that you never lose after stopping steroids ? ::) I know when I brought this up a few weeks ago you *claimed* all you were doing was cardio - bullshit I remember you talking about your lifting scedule and how you were doing it but struggling because of school etc so you blaimed that for not eating right which again is shit it was lack of discipline - you were skinny fat and did not look like you had ever been to a gym but in this thread you claim you keep all the muscle you gain on steroids haha no you dont dummy - scale weight is BS and going on those pics you posted you dont even train ??? repost them go on ::)
The guy's an alcoholic that claimed he could turn pro naturally in 3 years.
Too bad i missed the pics.
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I am putting my fucking foot down. You do not break through plateaus by adding more juice you fucking monkey. There are MANY ways to do it, and what do you do for a natural trainer?
agreed. those who actually enjoy lifting weights know there are ways to get STRONGER just by persevering and being patient.
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agreed. those who actually enjoy lifting weights know there are ways to get STRONGER just by persevering and being patient.
We were talking about muscle mass, not strength plateaus.
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The guy's an alcoholic that claimed he could turn pro naturally in 3 years.
Too bad i missed the pics.
Well theres another contradiction then haha he claims you keep all the muscle you gain off steroids but then he is saying he is going to be the first ever natural pro haha how can he be natural if he has abused steroids like he "claims" and yet you keep the muscle you gain on said steroids once you stop ??? - honestly he looked terrible and beet red which i think must be from the alc :-\ poor bastard - he needs help
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We were talking about muscle mass, not strength plateaus.
Obviously getting past a certain point is impossible without aas, but strength gains can come in increments naturally over long periods of time. Everythings already been explained in this thread anyways.
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Obviously getting past a certain point is impossible without aas, but strength gains can come in increments naturally over long periods of time. Everythings already been explained in this thread anyways.
yes.
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the true defition of breaking through platue,,
this is again in regarding the known lie that plateau is breaken with new extra weight,,not the case!
platue in bodybuild is always breaken with the addition of hormones,,DOSES ,, and products when truly advanced bodybuild,,
when you maxed at trenbolona and propionets at 200lb 6% ,,only thing that will push you to 220 6% will be addition of testosterona with longer esters and gh ,, ofcourse there is small brekas in platue and big breaks,,
the higher the bodyfat is the smaler the break will be and should be ,, the lower bodyfat is the bigger the break wil be and should be ,,
example ,,from trenbolona ace and propioneta at respecivly 100mg/150mg every 2 day of each ,,200lb 6% bodybuild should break the latue with 1-1.5 gram of testosterona longer easter or sustanona with adujstable dose of legit hgh,, this will take the bodybuld to new 220lb 6% status
if bodybuild is 205lb 10% he should break the platue with lighter doses since he is smaller than the 200lb 6%,,he should add testosterona and gh at lower doses inorder to work on the quality along with the size,,it wil be a slower process of growth but it can be done at higher bodyfat it just need to be tackled with LOWER DOSES
the fellas who need to blast on doses are the lower bodyfat fellas,,the ones who start 6-7% they will have the biggest break in platue and the most gained lean muscle with no fat when gh is in,,
so to conclude this ,,
breaking of platue has nothing to do with weights,,the weights increase come when the body is primed to growth and start growing even if not completely noticable yet,,but the major part of the equation si to increaese doses of testosterona to the grams ,,and yes i mean 1-2 grams ,,it is nothing ,,1-2 grams its nothing comparing to 2-3 grams many do ,,then ofcourse the higher grams the more gh you need so make sure you have enough legit gh if you decide to work with 2-3 grams,,1-1.5 grams a week go well with 6-12 iu a day ,, over 1.5 grams need more gh to unilize most efficiently ,,15 iu gh come with 1.5-3 grams testosterona,,and ofcourse 20-30 and over come with insulina and insulina is always there
ok hope this is understood,,also dont evrr forget your anabolics,,it is very importanto to make sure the anabolics are there big time ,,you want to put eq 300 mg inject together with nppiona 100 mg inject in same syrnge and shoot ,,you want to ad trenboolona and little masterona on the other ass cheek ,, so you dont get too soft and that you have the nasty factor that only trenbolona gives,,remember that pupils
gh15 approved
take drugs,, be awesome. be more awesome,, take more drugs.
got it, now go away.
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but strength gains can come in increments naturally over long periods of time.
True to a point, but once you've hit your natural limit of lean muscle, the only way you're getting stronger is by developing your tendons, ligaments, etc. and maybe continuing to adapt your CNS, but this too only continues to a point, same as lean muscle development. Technique is never perfected though. ;)
@ BFRS: You don't magically retain muscle if you stop using it. A year without training, at best, and you're back to square one. Much quicker than that for most people.
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@ BFRS: You don't magically retain muscle if you stop using it. A year without training, at best, and you're back to square one. Much quicker than that for most people.
It depends what you mean by "without training".
If you sit on your ass playing video games all day for a year you might lose all your muscle.
But if you stop lifting weights, but still play sports, bicycle, do yoga, work a physical labor job, etc. You'll keep most of it.
I've seen it a million times. Naturals will quit lifting, and they'll lose the sharpness and hardness, but the size doesn't drop all that much if they keep on eating well and stay active.
Weight lifting is not the only way to be active.
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It depends what you mean by "without training".
If you sit on your ass playing video games all day for a year you might lose all your muscle.
But if you stop lifting weights, but still play sports, bicycle, do yoga, work a physical labor job, etc. You'll keep most of it.
I've seen it a million times. Naturals will quit lifting, and they'll lose the sharpness and hardness, but the size doesn't drop all that much if they keep on eating well and stay active.
Weight lifting is not the only way to be active.
Bullshit
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Bullshit
How dare you talk to "Big" BFRS like that little bitch? You need to remember who you're talking to here mother fucker.
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. Naturals will quit lifting, and they'll lose the sharpness and hardness, but the size doesn't drop all that much if they keep on eating well and stay active.
What do you think that sharpness and hardness is? It's muscle. You lose it. Sure, you might have the same arm measurements a year later, because you've lost the beef and grown lardy instead.
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S0 H0W D0 Y0U GET THERE IF INCREASING M0RE WEIGHT 0N THE BAR D0SEN'T D0 IT?
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S0 H0W D0 Y0U GET THERE IF INCREASING M0RE WEIGHT 0N THE BAR D0SEN'T D0 IT?
Assbruise.
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Assbruise.
:D
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Assbruise.
;D
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Pure idiocy contained in this post.
Find me a natural, hell ten naturals who have hit a plateau and I will see them through it WITHOUT DRUGS.
What the fuck is wrong with you people???
When I was a kid I hit plateaus all the time and crushed them! That's how you fucking grow people! I didn't touch gear till I was 22 or so, and even up till that time I never had an issue growing. I was 110lbs when I was 14 and 230 at 22, never during that time did I ever stop growing and I have only one injury in my life, an ankle I sprained about 7 weeks ago trying to catch a fucking train.
You fucking people amaze me.
you didnt grow until you were 22 friend,, youstarted very young ,,most of us start 17 but we also compete al over place and turn profesiona, ,, 22 is very very young ,,most fellas who srat 22 and serious make money off bodybuild,,22 is a kid,,fella on hormones at 22 22-24 they grow into serious lean size if know what they do ,,its age 22 and forword that grew you ,,you cant break platue of size with out hormones,,never happened ,,first 2 years you put yourself in what originally god wanted you to be ,,after that its all hormones friend
gh15 approved
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No dude its fact - you get to a certain point as a natural where muscular bodyweight just stops and any weight gained is a combo of water fat and maybe if you are lucky a few more ounces of lean tissue - thats when its time to jump on the hormone train.. do most naturals ever reach there full genetic potential ? i would say no - but you have stated you trained with full on intensity and followed the right diet so once at that level it is game over for more lean tissue unless of course you look to the pharma route be it AAS or pro hormones/steroids
this fella became the less complicated van b since van b go techincally aspect but this fella say it like it is ,,he KNOWS what he is talking about to the t ,,very good postings from him
gh15 approved
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I truly do not believe this. Obviously muscle becomes harder to come by, but one can always be growing. Maybe less than you'd like...And also, GH15 did not say this was "busting through the limits of natural growth", he is saying if you aren't growing on juice the only answer is- MORE JUICE!!! Let's not examine diet, training, rest and recovery etc. NO NO NO- UP THE DOSAGE!!!
What a load of crap.
no ,,dont quate gh15 wrong,,,if you dont grow on juice ...iti mean you got BUNK balonie,,THE END! ,,inorder to grow over size platue ,,lets say 200lb 7% ,,inorder to see 210 lb 7% you will have HAVE HAVE HAVE HAVE to increase the doses,,as in change the propioneta to sustanona and go from the 200mg propioneta a day 100 mg trenbolona a day toooooooooooooo ,, 1200mg sustanona a week ,, nppiona and equipona combo of 800mg a week,, trenbolona still at 50-150 mg every day or 2 ,, etc,,,ONLY THAT! WILL PUT YOU AT 210 7% ,,people do not understand how much 10lb of muscle is ,,they dont get it ,,and in most likleihood if you are over 30....you wont see no 210 lb 7% if not on hgh ,,and really n omatter what age you are...when you go the route of ovber 1200mg testosterona a week you better have legit gh in the blood
gh15 approved
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This is a load of crap! If you train while on gear and build muscle, you do not lose it because you go off cycle. If this were true, I would have slowly disintegrated after I came off. My bodyweight shot down to around 205-210, and after some time back up into the 220's. I now weigh in the low 200's without even working out, pretty lean maybe 9-10%. Before I dieted down I maintained the 220's for YEARS.
Steroids build permanent muscle if you train properly.
I just hate this entire thread, and the attitude of the forum is sickening to say the least.
wrong,,steroid do nto build permananet muscle,,take bobie from this board,,he still train and on ,,look at the muscle,,nto even remotly close to what it was,,and i mean lean muscle tissue,,not even close to what it was,,yes weight is weight,,but weight is NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT size,,lean size > weight,,you can be 200lb and look bigger than 260 lb if you got on you lean size at 6% and the other fella is 15-18%
gh15 approved
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The thinking here seems to be that you can not achieve much without drugs, and that the answer to getting bigger is always more drugs, and I would bet good money the guys whose opinions matter most (pro bodybuilders) would strongly disagree with this thinking. But then again, to you guys they are all huge drug abusers so you likely would never listen.
Yes they might say it to you, but that's not what they're thinking.
I'll give a personal example. I was discussing with pro X what his goal was for an upcoming show regarding placing.
He goes, "Van, you know as well as I do that it's all about drugs at my level. It all depends on whether I can get/afford enough quality GH. And of course the rest of the anabolics but GH is the main issue. I know I can place well if I have the funds/availability".
Look at Steve Namat. He complains that he doesn't have any money and that's why he hasn't placed that well recently. He doesn't need to tell us what he needs the money for. ;)
Maybe you can give Namat some advice on plateau busters which doesn't involve drugs. ::)
the training and diet matters but if you see a pro break a plateau it always involves improved drug manipulation. Either increasing dosages in general, addition of new types of drugs, better combos and so on.
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Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?
lol i swear it thoguht this fella was atleast ! 57 year old lol 30?? lol 30? ? ?
gh15 approved
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I can only speak from my personal experience, but all the "natural bodybuilders" i run across only got fatter when they tell me that they are "225lbs" now.
They don't even look better, just fatter, if they would go down to contest shape they would be somewhere around 70-75kg, no matter if they started at 100kg with the diet or 85.
Another factor is that the natural guy dieting down from 100kg will NEVER get in shape, because he will lose so much muscle during the diet that he will end up skinnier than the 85kg guy, although he might hold 5kg more muscle before dieting.
I think it is bullshit that steroids build permanent muscle. Not even natural training builds permanent muscle, if you slack with your training or diet the muscle will be gone, albeit the natural muscle will be much harder to get back again.
BUT, all ex-juicers that i have ever met in my life that kept training had a far better body than people who had never touched steroids in their lives (but maybe they were on low dose test, i don't know).
great great great posting!
gh15 approved
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Natural muscle stays.
I think a natural can keep about 80% of his muscle if he completely stops lifting, as long as he keeps his diet solid.
I never see natural lifters shrink way down. They always keep like 80% of their size.
you should see some of the true natural i worked with ,,from 185 they shrink so fast to 165 that not even 30 days past and they were alking around 170-175 and then boom down to 165 within 60 days of not intune with eveyrthign to the t ,,they lost 20lb momeent they were not intune with everything and had to work over time or had to go off creatine and had to resuce training some or couldnt eat as much ,, lol
naturals lose very very fast when it come to lean muscle 180 to under 170 in record time!
gh15 approved
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Your theory contradicts what i've seen in real life thousands of times.
hsi theories are facts,,,he is on spot
gh15 approved
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You can get stronger as a natural for many many years, if for example you're a powerlifter. I've seen it. Setting PRs after training SERIOUSLY for 20 years already.
But it's always due to technique manipulation, finding new exercises which hit weak links in a way you didn't before and so.
But muscle size doesn't even take 2 years to reach approximate max limit if you have someone experienced holding your hand from thebeginning IMO.
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Yes they might say it to you, but that's not what they're thinking.
I'll give a personal example. I was discussing with pro X what his goal was for an upcoming show regarding placing.
He goes, "Van, you know as well as I do that it's all about drugs at my level. It all depends on whether I can get/afford enough quality GH. And of course the rest of the anabolics but GH is the main issue. I know I can place well if I have the funds/availability".
Look at Steve Namat. He complains that he doesn't have any money and that's why he hasn't placed that well recently. He doesn't need to tell us what he needs the money for. ;)
Maybe you can give Namat some advice on plateau busters which doesn't involve drugs. ::)
the training and diet matters but if you see a pro break a plateau it always involves improved drug manipulation. Either increasing dosages in general, addition of new types of drugs, better combos and so on.
yes,, gh is very important ,,you should see the face of bodybuild that just found otu he been using bunk gh after few days of using,, that bodybuild i steaming ,,he is so mad that basicaly his all next few months of bodybuild is down the shit if he cant get more money to try to get more new gh that is legit,, it is chase afetr the gh game ,,everyone chase after the gh ,,even if they say they dont they lie! ,,they all chase the gh ,,
when you hear in the gym ,,hey bro youre getting huge ,,YOU ARE GETTING HUGE,, that fella talked about is on gh ,,usualy less than 2 weeks on gh lol it is funny how moment you increase testosterona doses if lean enough and increase anabolic eq and npp doses and add legit gh ,,its amazing how fast you being desecibed as huge in gyms,,14 days on those products and fellas walk around calling you the next best thing ,,you are getting huge brother!! ,,lol this show you that bodybuild is all drugs and the ability to put the water into the muscle and create new size out of the fibers gh creates which by the way happen from the first second gh go in blood,,
gh15 approved
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yes,, gh is very important ,,you should see the face of bodybuild that just found otu he been using bunk gh after few days of using,, that bodybuild i steaming ,,he is so mad that basicaly his all next few months of bodybuild is down the shit if he cant get more money to try to get more new gh that is legit,, it is chase afetr the gh game ,,everyone chase after the gh ,,even if they say they dont they lie! ,,they all chase the gh ,,
when you hear in the gym ,,hey bro youre getting huge ,,YOU ARE GETTING HUGE,, that fella talked about is on gh ,,usualy less than 2 weeks on gh lol it is funny how moment you increase testosterona doses if lean enough and increase anabolic eq and npp doses and add legit gh ,,its amazing how fast you being desecibed as huge in gyms,,14 days on those products and fellas walk around calling you the next best thing ,,you are getting huge brother!! ,,lol this show you that bodybuild is all drugs and the ability to put the water into the muscle and create new size out of the fibers gh creates which by the way happen from the first second gh go in blood,,
gh15 approved
gh15, what type of gains could one expect only using GH?
How much lean muscle could they expect to build without using any test or any other drugs?
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using gh byitself will cause 2 things,,reduce bodyfat,, and increase muscle fibers,, you wont see new size of a bodybuild though with out hitting those new muscle fibers with aas inorder to create the new tissue blown from within ,,
so,, hgh by itself is good as a prime,,lets aay you take off 30 day from gym or 60 ,,you do what kevin did ,,you so what ron did you do what any 90s bodybuild do and everyone do since,,you prime on gh ,,only to later blitz it with aas and say to everyone lala lee lala la im huge in a matteer of 3 week,, you dont tell them you were 2 months on gh inorder to prime it all and only then boomed in the aas,,you keep it for yourself ,,to them you say oyu were blesses with gurilla genetic from suckmymuscle book of gurillas,,
hgh by itself is good for people who want to lose fat and keep their lean muscle at optimal levels,,its good for older 35+ individual that bodybuild is nto their main prioritues and they just want to keep looking somewhat in shape and to look young and lively ,,it is good for other health reasons at lower doses,,but yes usualy 40+ 35-40 for those,,
for bodybuild now day,,you better jump on gh from age 20 something if you want to get anywhere
gh15 appoved
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When should one start using GH?
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You can get stronger as a natural for many many years, if for example you're a powerlifter. I've seen it. Setting PRs after training SERIOUSLY for 20 years already.
But it's always due to technique manipulation, finding new exercises which hit weak links in a way you didn't before and so.
But muscle size doesn't even take 2 years to reach approximate max limit if you have someone experienced holding your hand from thebeginning IMO.
Great post man.
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using gh byitself will cause 2 things,,reduce bodyfat,, and increase muscle fibers,, you wont see new size of a bodybuild though with out hitting those new muscle fibers with aas inorder to create the new tissue blown from within ,,
so,, hgh by itself is good as a prime,,lets aay you take off 30 day from gym or 60 ,,you do what kevin did ,,you so what ron did you do what any 90s bodybuild do and everyone do since,,you prime on gh ,,only to later blitz it with aas and say to everyone lala lee lala la im huge in a matteer of 3 week,, you dont tell them you were 2 months on gh inorder to prime it all and only then boomed in the aas,,you keep it for yourself ,,to them you say oyu were blesses with gurilla genetic from suckmymuscle book of gurillas,,
hgh by itself is good for people who want to lose fat and keep their lean muscle at optimal levels,,its good for older 35+ individual that bodybuild is nto their main prioritues and they just want to keep looking somewhat in shape and to look young and lively ,,it is good for other health reasons at lower doses,,but yes usualy 40+ 35-40 for those,,
for bodybuild now day,,you better jump on gh from age 20 something if you want to get anywhere
gh15 appoved
Thanks for the reply.
Would definitely like to try GH sometime when I have more cash.
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You can get stronger as a natural for many many years, if for example you're a powerlifter. I've seen it. Setting PRs after training SERIOUSLY for 20 years already.
But it's always due to technique manipulation, finding new exercises which hit weak links in a way you didn't before and so.
But muscle size doesn't even take 2 years to reach approximate max limit if you have someone experienced holding your hand from thebeginning IMO.
Truth right there. I havent used ass in over a year, but my compound lifts have gone up since I been off, just from working on technique and grinding it out week after week. All by doing heavy deads religiously for the last year, even without drugs my total body density ie traps back and delts are bigger now than they ever were. At this point, im deadlifting 2.5X my bodyweight and I really dont expect to go too much further without hormones, although gains are coming very slowly.
Also training like a bodybuilder without drugs is completely pointless, so now I just do the basics and try to go pretty heavy most of the time if my body can dish it out depending on which injury I am nursing at the time (and theres ALWAYS at least 1 thats holding me back!)
Its either hit the gear hard now, or just coast through the rest of my life training 4X a week on an average diet with little pleasure.
Im questioning even doing aas again because I dont wanna speed up my receding hairline, so its all uphill from here.
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you should see some of the true natural i worked with ,,from 185 they shrink so fast to 165 that not even 30 days past and they were alking around 170-175 and then boom down to 165 within 60 days of not intune with eveyrthign to the t ,,they lost 20lb momeent they were not intune with everything and had to work over time or had to go off creatine and had to resuce training some or couldnt eat as much ,, lol
naturals lose very very fast when it come to lean muscle 180 to under 170 in record time!
gh15 approved
x2..I can attest to this fact personally. Theres a thread somewhere around here with my pics in it I showed you the one I was 188 with everything to the t 3 months ago...and now less than 3 months later in the other pic I was 178, natural lose not only weight but consequently lean mass as well, I didn't get fat but rather I shrunk a little from partying and bullshit not eating say 6-7 times to only 3-4. Anyone who says otherwise is full of it and hasn't experienced it firsthand.
On another note to the topic at hand I had a discussion with a friend about this matter just the other day, now he is someone I respect in regards to bodybuilding since he is regional level npc competitor but at the same time I had a hard time not getting a little frustrated when he was trying to tell me that I am not maxed out at building lean muscle (being 5'10 and 180 fairly lean high singles.) Anyway I was trying to conclude that it was time to go for a swim in some hormones but the man kept insisting i had "untapped potential" . i was like ... ???
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Yes they might say it to you, but that's not what they're thinking.
I'll give a personal example. I was discussing with pro X what his goal was for an upcoming show regarding placing.
He goes, "Van, you know as well as I do that it's all about drugs at my level. It all depends on whether I can get/afford enough quality GH. And of course the rest of the anabolics but GH is the main issue. I know I can place well if I have the funds/availability".
Look at Steve Namat. He complains that he doesn't have any money and that's why he hasn't placed that well recently. He doesn't need to tell us what he needs the money for. ;)
Maybe you can give Namat some advice on plateau busters which doesn't involve drugs. ::)
the training and diet matters but if you see a pro break a plateau it always involves improved drug manipulation. Either increasing dosages in general, addition of new types of drugs, better combos and so on.
I think it's not even worth it to break that fuckin plateau... Sad but true.
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I am really starting to wonder about getbig...
I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.
Gotcha.
Winning forum Ron.
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I'll give you one example of a totally natural fello I have known for over 20 years. He never had a desire to bodybuild ever. Thoughout the years he got stronger, in fact very strong. This guy hasn't put on an ounce of size in over 20 years and he is VERY freaking strong. I've seen him leg press 1200 pounds and this guy weighed about 170. Getting stronger DOES NOT equal getting bigger. Getting bigger and I mean very big is all drugs. Sorry to crush some egos here or confuse some of the younger guys, but you may as well hear the truth and save yourself all the misery. At least way you are on an even playing field and know the truth.
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I am really starting to wonder about getbig...
I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.
Gotcha.
Winning forum Ron.
There are plenty of other forums where you'll find almost everyone agreeing with you. So why do you want getbig to be like all the rest? You are free to have your opinion but apparently you have a problem with others disagreeing? Like I said, there's tons of other forums that may fit you better.
Just remembered something that might interest you. Let me know what you think. ;)
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/891105-post4.html
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/892355-post111.html
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Getting stronger DOES NOT equal getting bigger. Getting bigger and I mean very big is all drugs.
Do you believe there should be progress in the workouts in other ways than absolute load? Meaning more total work done, same amount of work done in lesser time, more reps with a certain load? Or do you feel you can just keep repeating the same workout and still get optimal results?
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Or do you feel you can just keep repeating the same workout and still get optimal results?
of course not
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I am really starting to wonder about getbig...
I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.
Gotcha.
Winning forum Ron.
You're good people, but you'd be happier on bodybuilding.com, bro.
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Do you believe there should be progress in the workouts in other ways than absolute load? Meaning more total work done, same amount of work done in lesser time, more reps with a certain load? Or do you feel you can just keep repeating the same workout and still get optimal results?
I have always tried to find ways to make my workout harder in terms of intensity and that means either shorter rests or more sets or same amount of work in shorter period of time. I love to workout and love to try and find ways to make it harder and more enjoyable. I have also been in the gym long enough to realize two things. One is that there is a limit to how strong I was going to get no matter what I did and that the stronger I got the more prone to injury I became. Two, I also realize that no matter how I approach my workouts I am not going to get any bigger unless I added drugs and then more drugs to get even bigger. In the end I tend to stick to the same workout since after all these years I have found what I like to do, but I do change up occasionally not so much to keep the progress going, but for variety. Hope that answered your question bro.
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of course not
This is not an issue to those who understand bodybuilding, what becomes an issue is when people discount the drugs involved and say yea yea just keep switching things up to blast through plateaus as if theres no natural limit ::)
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of course not
I'm asking Disgusted. :D
Because if he believes in progressively more "intense" workouts then he believes in getting stronger in a way. Otherwise you'll end up doing 100 rep sets with 20 second rest between sets unless you increase load i.e. get stronger.
I basically think Disgusted just doesn't like sloppy lifting since that's an image that easily crops up when people talk about "heavy training". Sloppy with tons of momentum, lifting your ass off the bench and bouncing the weight when pressing, heaving the weight when curling and so on. But you can get stronger even while using perfect form and doing reps on the higher side.
I have always tried to find ways to make my workout harder in terms of intensity and that means either shorter rests or more sets or same amount of work in shorter period of time. I love to workout and love to try and find ways to make it harder and more enjoyable. I have also been in the gym long enough to realize two things. One is that there is a limit to how strong I was going to get no matter what I did and that the stronger I got the more prone to injury I became. Two, I also realize that no matter how I approach my workouts I am not going to get any bigger unless I added drugs and then more drugs to get even bigger. In the end I tend to stick to the same workout since after all these years I have found what I like to do, but I do change up occasionally not so much to keep the progress going, but for variety. Hope that answered your question bro.
Wrote the above while you posted. But I think I get you.
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imo the one reason why people dont succeed is sloppy training and over/under training. they annihilate support muscle, instead of stimulating target muscles.
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I'm very tempted to post some pics that will defy and blow in the face of everything being said here...
I have posted them before, but not the most current.
I will start with one. There was one guy here that nailed exactly what I was (or wasn't) "on" - he called it long-time hard and solid training.
This, at 43 years old:
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x263/timeamajorova/tommyboyripped-1.jpg)
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Me now at 48. I haven't touched a weight in 1 year. No cardio. No dope. Clean eating? BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x263/timeamajorova/me48dcopy.jpg)
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You're good people, but you'd be happier on bodybuilding.com, bro.
I do not tuck tail and run, especially when I know I am fucking right.
If you haters really need to see an example, I will fucking give you one.
I just had the best workout in the last 5 years, fueled by hatred of the ignorance and stupidity I have been seeing on this forum.
I only have myself to blame that I cannot show you all a better clean physique, and admit that I am a disgrace with respect to what I have been given.
I aim to take some pictures tomorrow at the gym, I haven't really figured out how to take good pictures but I am sure I can get the hang of it. I always look great in the mirror but shitty in pictures, and cannot figure out why. Have to check around for respectable lighting...
I am going to log off for the night by saying this- I will crush all of your pessimistic expectations. All of the crap I keep reading just motivates me to no end, and if that is what it takes to get my ass in the gym then so be it! Whatever it takes!
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It depends what you mean by "without training".
If you sit on your ass playing video games all day for a year you might lose all your muscle.
But if you stop lifting weights, but still play sports, bicycle, do yoga, work a physical labor job, etc. You'll keep most of it.
I've seen it a million times. Naturals will quit lifting, and they'll lose the sharpness and hardness, but the size doesn't drop all that much if they keep on eating well and stay active.
Weight lifting is not the only way to be active.
First you said you've seen it "thousands" of times now it's "millions." You have virtually no muscle...all skin and bones. You are a angry little closet homo.
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I do not tuck tail and run, especially when I know I am fucking right.
If you haters really need to see an example, I will fucking give you one.
I just had the best workout in the last 5 years, fueled by hatred of the ignorance and stupidity I have been seeing on this forum.
I only have myself to blame that I cannot show you all a better clean physique, and admit that I am a disgrace with respect to what I have been given.
I aim to take some pictures tomorrow at the gym, I haven't really figured out how to take good pictures but I am sure I can get the hang of it. I always look great in the mirror but shitty in pictures, and cannot figure out why. Have to check around for respectable lighting...
I am going to log off for the night by saying this- I will crush all of your pessimistic expectations. All of the crap I keep reading just motivates me to no end, and if that is what it takes to get my ass in the gym then so be it! Whatever it takes!
Not knocking your character or integrity, just reminding you that this is the thunderdome.
What you say is true, just to a much lesser degree. Drugs play way more than what you give credit for. You attribute training and diet as being way more I important than they really are. Get lean, blast drugs and blow up lean. No more bulking and cutting once you have a foundation, just growing lagging parts and leaning back out when you get too bloofy. No wasting time being hyper analytical and shit like liar Nortrom preaches.
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I am really starting to wonder about getbig...
I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.
Gotcha.
Winning forum Ron.
This board is becoming a joke.
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You're a good dude MM, but try as you may, and even "willling" yourself into it, won't make it so, if you get my drift? I've been spouting off lately about how I will have a 16 inch lean and conditioned arm at 165 @ 8% Well man, in all honesty it most likely ain't gonna happen, even though I was really trying to "will" myself into believing that it was so... Here is a pic of me from some years back with 14.5 inch conditoned arms, and in this photo I weighed 158 @ 8% Yeah fellas I know, brutual left quad :P But I can thank 2 basketball knee injuries and surgeries for my mangeled left quad :'(
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You're a good dude MM, but try as you may, and even "willling" yourself into it, won't make it so, if you get my drift? I've been spouting off lately about how I will have a 16 inch lean and conditioned arm at 165 @ 8% Well man, in all honesty it most likely ain't gonna happen, even though I was really trying to "will" myself into believing that it was so... Here is a pic of me from some years back with 14.5 inch conditoned arms, and in this photo I weighed 158 @ 8% Yeah fellas I know, brutual left quad :P But I can thank 2 basketball knee injuries and surgeries for my mangeled left quad :'(
Thats not Robert Powell in Jesus of Nazareth. ;D
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Thats not Robert Powell in Jesus of Nazareth. ;D
;D
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You're a good dude MM, but try as you may, and even "willling" yourself into it, won't make it so, if you get my drift? I've been spouting off lately about how I will have a 16 inch lean and conditioned arm at 165 @ 8% Well man, in all honesty it most likely ain't gonna happen, even though I was really trying to "will" myself into believing that it was so... Here is a pic of me from some years back with 14.5 inch conditoned arms, and in this photo I weighed 158 @ 8% Yeah fellas I know, brutual left quad :P But I can thank 2 basketball knee injuries and surgeries for my mangeled left quad :'(
Our genetics are nothing alike. I am sorry, but your body is nothing like mine.
Not long ago I was 195@ 8% and I am 5ft9. I suppose saying all this is just moot without pictures to back it up, and I hate taking pictures, so it's a bit of a conundrum.
I will deal with it.
IF anyone wants to train with me, south san jose, hit me up.
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You're a good dude MM, but try as you may, and even "willling" yourself into it, won't make it so, if you get my drift? I've been spouting off lately about how I will have a 16 inch lean and conditioned arm at 165 @ 8% Well man, in all honesty it most likely ain't gonna happen, even though I was really trying to "will" myself into believing that it was so... Here is a pic of me from some years back with 14.5 inch conditoned arms, and in this photo I weighed 158 @ 8% Yeah fellas I know, brutual left quad :P But I can thank 2 basketball knee injuries and surgeries for my mangeled left quad :'(
see if you could blew up from this picture...you would never hear now day anyone laugh at you ,,if you could get on the right hormones then...you would be sitting now winnign a local show or maybe even regional on your way to place 15th in national show or who knows maybe better,,you needed years of training but you were at the level of leaness to blow up,, this is truly natural by the way ,,it can be little better with little more thickness truly naturaly but we talking few lbs of muscle,,over all you got the abs going with the sucked in pehomenon that is very goo dfor natural ,,and from this to blow up is very easy ,,this thing is 180lb 5-6% in no time,,im talking 3-4 weeks on the right legit hormones
gh15 approved
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Our genetics are nothing alike. I am sorry, but your body is nothing like mine.
Not long ago I was 195@ 8% and I am 5ft9. I suppose saying all this is just moot without pictures to back it up, and I hate taking pictures, so it's a bit of a conundrum.
I will deal with it.
IF anyone wants to train with me, south san jose, hit me up.
::)
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You do lose SOME muscle when you stop lifting. I'm not claiming you keep all of it.
But I do think most people keep about 80-90% of it.
Lost of people here talk as though you will lose most of it or almost all of it. I think this is simply bullshit.
Almost all my American buddies lift weights and the naturals always look about the same size. The only ones i've seen shrink way down are the guys who blew up on gear and then went off.
No, you don't keep 90% of your muscle... that is ridiculous... Problem here, about plateau, is that most guys don't even reach their natural plateaus, training light and no intensity, starting drugs very soon... Reaching natural plateau is a good thing, it means that you are ready to take the next step, it means that you have good foundations to get in the "highway"...
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No, you don't keep 90% of your muscle... that is ridiculous... Problem here, about plateau, is that most guys don't even reach their natural plateaus, training light and no intensity, starting drugs very soon... Reaching natural plateau is a good thing, it means that you are ready to take the next step, it means that you have good foundations to get in the "highway"...
Yes, it's much much better to break a few plateaus (strength/size-wise) before hitting the gear.
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Obviously I do not look like a pro bodybuilder nor goodrum...What the fuck standards are those? I even admitted recently I took 2 months off, and have just gotten back to training. I am 30 years old, and a full time student. What exactly are you expecting?
Typical backpedaling bullshitter......from "I crush plateaus ...you guys don't know shit"....to..."I'm just getting back into it after a long layoff" fucking people should learn how to STFU around here....but everyone has to be an authority
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Typical backpedaling bullshitter......from "I crush plateaus ...you guys don't know shit"....to..."I'm just getting back into it after a long layoff" fucking people should learn how to STFU around here....but everyone has to be an authority
Guy's an alcoholic that admitted he cannot stay away from booze for more than a few weeks, then goes on a drinking spree and probably wakes up in his own puke for weeks.
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Great post man.
Uh....aren't you the guy who said "strength=bigger muscles" ? do you even understand his post?
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Guy's an alcoholic that admitted he cannot stay away from booze for more than a few weeks, then goes on a drinking spree and probably wakes up in his own puke for weeks.
And makes posts on here that flip flop all over the place.
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Uh....aren't you the guy who said "strength=bigger muscles" ? do you even understand his post?
Yeah I understood it, and I'll admit that I was wrong with my "strength=bigger muscles" mantra.
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lol. just to recap.
1. A month ago he was on way to being a natural.
2. A few days ago he starts a thread about getting back into after a couple of months off.
3. He crushed plateaus.
4. Once you stop taking "gear" you will not lose the muscles, even though the hormones generated the muscle. His body defies logic.
5. He won't post pic because the batteries are dead or because "it will prove nothing"
6. If you want proof come and work out with him.
::) ::)
his next step will be to post a picture from a reflection through back yard sliding glass door at night during a lunar eclipse on Easter
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You most definitely can make appreciable gains without steroids.
You will never look remotely like a Pro BB without them.
If you have spent a lifetime of working out and you have the right genetics and education (knowledge base)- you will be able to build a physique that would elicit page upon page of arguments here on Getbig.
Some of us just don't want to defend ourselves. No point. People will believe what they are going to believe.
It IS MOST DEFINITELY POSSIBLE TO BUILD A HEAD-TURNING PHYSIQUE WITHOUT STEROIDS!
Believe it or not. The arguement should be in your work ethic and committment (basically the same thing)
Me? I swam AAU and USA up to Far Westerns and Nationals for over 13 years. Then I started bodybuilding, but I already had a good solid build with low bodyfat. I had an "edge"
When I was a kid, my dad had me chopping Almond wood every weekend for months on end with an axe. I had a six pack (eight pack) at 10 years old.
You have to add up all the contributing factors. My mom made home-cooked healthy meals for a lifetime. No junkfood. My dad was a dentist so sugary foods were tabboo in my house.
It all makes a difference.
I would love to add Test and HGH my physique, but I am nearly 50 and I don't compete. I have other things to spend money on that won't hurt me physically (hopefully)
So many variables in this game.
The most popular topics here these days are: "Is this guy, dude, chick, whatever... NATURAL????" or "Can you build a physique like this naturally?"
Who do you think knows the true answer to those questions? Gh15? Ron? Chick? Me?
How about the guy who built the physique?
Then all of a sudden the topic changes its ugly face to "liars"
No closure or resolution here in this forum.
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Maybe some people here don't want to work out for 30 years to get a "head-turning physique" that gets owned by ANY dude training for three years and doing one cycle of steroids?
Head-turning physique on your sunday excursion to the church's parking lot sale, but no one will tunr their heads when you step a foot into the gym.
And that's the truth, and nothing to argue about it.
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Yeah I understood it, and I'll admit that I was wrong with my "strength=bigger muscles" mantra.
Good man. I gave you such a hard time because I use to be where you were at. A die hard Mentzer disciple. The stronger you get the bigger you get. I use to criticize other's training program because it wasn't progressive. That they weren't improving. Getting stronger, getting bigger. Until I realize that neither was I. Force reps, drop sets, negatives, partials up the ass until it brought tears to my eyes. I remember getting off a series of 3 drop sets that included force reps and negatives (they had a handle attached so you could help yourself raise the weight) along with some rest pause. When I got off the machine to head for the Nautilus leg press my legs buckled under me and I collapse to the ground. It was kind of embarrassing but after about 30 seconds I could walk again and hit the leg press. Same thing, did force reps by pushing on my knees followed by rest pause. Just this one super set for quads but if this wasn't growth stimulating I don't know what is. I had the next couple of days off which was great because I could barely walk the next day. So I just spent that weekend sitting around the house eating like a pig and measuring my quads. As Mentzer said, if the the work out stimulates growth the adaptive response should be quick and dramatic.
LOL! Nothing. Always nothing. But I still kept at it. Bad genetics so it would just take longer. The theory sounded so logical and fool proof. If the training was sound the only difference between a natural and enhance trainee was that it took the natural longer to achieve the same results. That's what I always thought steroids did. Speed up recovery. A natural just can't train as much and needs more recovery but he will get there if he is determined and patient. And I could see the proof with my own eyes. Some incredible natural physiques were built using Mentzer/Jones' principles. Casey was one of them. Except they were lying. They were all lying. Even Mentzer lied as when Brian Johnson said years after Mentzer's death that he was with Mentzer at Gold's as Mentzer was planning his come back. Not stage come back but just to get back in shape and show proof of his Heavy Duty system to boost his training business. As they were walking in the parking lot Mentzer saw his "friend" and immediately made a bee line to him. This was Mentzer's friend and everybody's friend. The friend with the gym bag that everybody loved. And it wasn't the friend they loved. It was the gym bag.
And I was already in my forties when I read that incident by Brain Johnson and I was still a bit shocked and surprised. That even Mentzer lied. My teenage hero lied just like everybody else.
I felt like such a sucker.
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You most definitely can make appreciable gains without steroids.
You will never look remotely like a Pro BB without them.
If you have spent a lifetime of working out and you have the right genetics and education (knowledge base)- you will be able to build a physique that would elicit page upon page of arguments here on Getbig.
Some of us just don't want to defend ourselves. No point. People will believe what they are going to believe.
It IS MOST DEFINITELY POSSIBLE TO BUILD A HEAD-TURNING PHYSIQUE WITHOUT STEROIDS!
Believe it or not. The arguement should be in your work ethic and committment (basically the same thing)
Me? I swam AAU and USA up to Far Westerns and Nationals for over 13 years. Then I started bodybuilding, but I already had a good solid build with low bodyfat. I had an "edge"
When I was a kid, my dad had me chopping Almond wood every weekend for months on end with an axe. I had a six pack (eight pack) at 10 years old.
You have to add up all the contributing factors. My mom made home-cooked healthy meals for a lifetime. No junkfood. My dad was a dentist so sugary foods were tabboo in my house.
It all makes a difference.
I would love to add Test and HGH my physique, but I am nearly 50 and I don't compete. I have other things to spend money on that won't hurt me physically (hopefully)
So many variables in this game.
The most popular topics here these days are: "Is this guy, dude, chick, whatever... NATURAL????" or "Can you build a physique like this naturally?"
Who do you think knows the true answer to those questions? Gh15? Ron? Chick? Me?
How about the guy who built the physique?
Then all of a sudden the topic changes its ugly face to "liars"
No closure or resolution here in this forum.
yes ,,you can build quite gfood physiqwe with out hormones,,yes!,,it will not be thick physiqe,,it wil nto be big physiqe ,, it wil be in conditioned physiqe that will give the illusion of more size than it truly is ,,USUALY 15 LB ILLUSION,, yes you will have to have some ingredients that will have to be there inorder to do it,,
1. tann ,,you will have to be on the beach a lot of finish the air spray bottles like a chica in heat,,
2. you will have to never skop a meal ,,you will have no life,,your only work wil be able to be in the gym in the counter,,or maybe bouncer for few hours at night ,,and by bouncer i mean looking at ids...or somethign easy that doewsnt take lots of effort,,
3. you will not be able to ever skip training,, moment you wil do you will not be fogivven like with hormones,,you will just suffer with your look
4. you will have window of opportuinity to take your shirt off and show your nice physiqe with some impressivness ,,,that window of opportuinity will be 5-8 min at the end of your work out when you are pumped...if lean enough ,,with the pump you will look very good,,after that 8 min you are back to flat fella that look like he doesnt work out or look fit and strong or look like he play sports...
5. you will have to always be caqreful to not look too flat,,yet no matter how much you wil be caqrefull you will ALWAYS LOOK FLAT
6. you will look impressive with your condition yet moment you turn dise ways you will dissapear,,there wil be no thickness to the physiq,, the thickness wil be from temporqry pump and thats it!
7. you will have to take halodrol inorder to get to the next level ,,and halodrol is a drug ,,so you become hormone user...that is still natural
8. the usage of creatine will put such a hole in your pocket and for what? only god knows.. since no matter how good you lok at 180 something ...you still dont look thick ,,you look athletic you look dense if in condition ,,you look muscular and built and ripped...yet not thick lean ,,the impressivness talked about on this boardings we all on none stop is impressivness that has to do with BEING THICK AND LEAN AT THE SAME TIME,, it is nto achivable with out hormones,, and the ones who say they are thick and lean with out hormones LIE,,they may be clean but they are not NATURAL
9. you will be very strong naturaly ,,many naturlas are strong with good physiqe ,,but while you pull down 4 plates each side of the hammer...the210lb fella pull down 3 plates each side and look 20lb of lean tissue bigger and thicker than you ... with same bodyfat...so what exactly oyu achieve ? you look good btu he looks better! this is bodybuildign,,if you are same bodyfat....and you goto 20lb on someone then youre way bigger than that someone ...simple even if his arms are almost the size of yours when he is pumped and you are not ...bodyparrts means nothing,,the over all picture is whos body hold more lean muscle,,and what bodypart mesuere when in the same condition aka not pumped !
10. many years of training mean foundation yes,,but it also mean vry little progress if truly natural ,, it is very hard to get the human body off his wanting to be in status quo and return to it ,, the human body want to have only functional muscle,,if you arre natural ,,truly natural ,,and you dont have exact no life no partying no narcotics type of lie...you wil not advance even a little bit,,true naturals have no life,,they cant have life ,,they lose muscle from any little stress,, they cant be strssed,,they cant do many things that hormonized bodybuilders do ,,its just not worth it and very very few do it truly naturally ,,they usually dont compete ,,and the ones who do compete do it locally and lose befor they learn how to cheat the system with bunk urine test of a friend...inorder to pass as fake natural ,,alwyas been this way ,,always wil be this way ,,
gh15 approved
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Allright, I have a question here. Is "spot gaining" really possible? I know that "spot loss" is a myth, but what about "spot gaining"? As some here already know, I'm trying to "spot gain" only on my arms and delts.
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Allright, I have a question here. Is "spot gaining" really possible? I know that "spot loss" is a myth, but what about "spot gaining"? As some here already know, I'm trying to "spot gain" only on my arms and delts.
no,,there is no such a thing as spot gaining ,,UNLESS you inject seo with aas into that spot,, the other option is to inject igf1 not lr3 but igf1 directly into the spot,, but since you talk about natural ,,there is no such a thing as spot gaining,,even hormonized fellas only gain spot gain from the 2 methods i mentiond,,
its is like the rumor you can have spot reduction bf from usage of growth hormone which is complete and utter lie,, you can not have spot reduction of fat with hgh ,,only over all body compsition ,,same as we profesionals prefer it into the muscle and not SQ,, yes some do it sq and some do it IV but we prefer hgh INTO THE MUSCLE ,,atleast the sucesful bodybuild im aware of including myself
gh15 approved
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really only point to stay natural the first 5 years or so your lifting then get into hormones, no real reason to lift natural your whole life, just is like running on a hamster wheel.
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here's what I want to know: can your workouts still feel the same, as a natural, for years and years? can you still get good pumps, a little soreness, and work up a good sweat in the gym -- even if you don't gain any size?
i ask because i'm almost content with my body, but during the last few years my workouts have really sucked. it seems like no matter what i do, i can't even feel like i've worked hard. it's like my body is revolting against me! no pumps, no soreness -- is this my miserable fate? i'm always experimenting with new things, and i think a couple of injuries / form problems may be the cause, but i'd like to hear what other people think.
can working out still feel as good as it did when i was gaining? or at least similar, if less so?
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really only point to stay natural the first 5 years or so your lifting then get into hormones, no real reason to lift natural your whole life, just is like running on a hamster wheel.
Well theres a reason, not everyone likes to pop pills and stick needles to his ass.
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Well theres a reason, not everyone likes to pop pills and stick needles to his ass.
yeah that is a good counter point.
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yeah that is a good counter point.
:)
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yes ,,you can build quite gfood physiqwe with out hormones,,yes!,,it will not be thick physiqe,,it wil nto be big physiqe ,, it wil be in conditioned physiqe that will give the illusion of more size than it truly is ,,USUALY 15 LB ILLUSION,, yes you will have to have some ingredients that will have to be there inorder to do it,,
1. tann ,,you will have to be on the beach a lot of finish the air spray bottles like a chica in heat,,
2. you will have to never skop a meal ,,you will have no life,,your only work wil be able to be in the gym in the counter,,or maybe bouncer for few hours at night ,,and by bouncer i mean looking at ids...or somethign easy that doewsnt take lots of effort,,
3. you will not be able to ever skip training,, moment you wil do you will not be fogivven like with hormones,,you will just suffer with your look
4. you will have window of opportuinity to take your shirt off and show your nice physiqe with some impressivness ,,,that window of opportuinity will be 5-8 min at the end of your work out when you are pumped...if lean enough ,,with the pump you will look very good,,after that 8 min you are back to flat fella that look like he doesnt work out or look fit and strong or look like he play sports...
5. you will have to always be caqreful to not look too flat,,yet no matter how much you wil be caqrefull you will ALWAYS LOOK FLAT
6. you will look impressive with your condition yet moment you turn dise ways you will dissapear,,there wil be no thickness to the physiq,, the thickness wil be from temporqry pump and thats it!
7. you will have to take halodrol inorder to get to the next level ,,and halodrol is a drug ,,so you become hormone user...that is still natural
8. the usage of creatine will put such a hole in your pocket and for what? only god knows.. since no matter how good you lok at 180 something ...you still dont look thick ,,you look athletic you look dense if in condition ,,you look muscular and built and ripped...yet not thick lean ,,the impressivness talked about on this boardings we all on none stop is impressivness that has to do with BEING THICK AND LEAN AT THE SAME TIME,, it is nto achivable with out hormones,, and the ones who say they are thick and lean with out hormones LIE,,they may be clean but they are not NATURAL
9. you will be very strong naturaly ,,many naturlas are strong with good physiqe ,,but while you pull down 4 plates each side of the hammer...the210lb fella pull down 3 plates each side and look 20lb of lean tissue bigger and thicker than you ... with same bodyfat...so what exactly oyu achieve ? you look good btu he looks better! this is bodybuildign,,if you are same bodyfat....and you goto 20lb on someone then youre way bigger than that someone ...simple even if his arms are almost the size of yours when he is pumped and you are not ...bodyparrts means nothing,,the over all picture is whos body hold more lean muscle,,and what bodypart mesuere when in the same condition aka not pumped !
10. many years of training mean foundation yes,,but it also mean vry little progress if truly natural ,, it is very hard to get the human body off his wanting to be in status quo and return to it ,, the human body want to have only functional muscle,,if you arre natural ,,truly natural ,,and you dont have exact no life no partying no narcotics type of lie...you wil not advance even a little bit,,true naturals have no life,,they cant have life ,,they lose muscle from any little stress,, they cant be strssed,,they cant do many things that hormonized bodybuilders do ,,its just not worth it and very very few do it truly naturally ,,they usually dont compete ,,and the ones who do compete do it locally and lose befor they learn how to cheat the system with bunk urine test of a friend...inorder to pass as fake natural ,,alwyas been this way ,,always wil be this way ,,
gh15 approved
Story of my life :)
I started at 18. I am 41 now. I have trained naturally and consistently since 1988 with a couple of 6 month breaks in that time. I'm about 16kg heavier than when I started and have been here for a loooong time! Man - I've tried every training method there is, every type of creatine there is, protein powders, blah, blah, blah......and you know, even now, even at my age when I know better and have done for years, I still kill myself in the gym and think "Hey - shoulders are coming out a bit more" "Hey - arms are getting bigger" - and I know they're really not. Not since I was 23! LOL.
But fuck it. I'm happy where I am. I used to be fat. I'm not fat. Almost everyone I know thinks I'm 'big'. I have a better physique than 90% of the guys my age and young babes still flirt with me. I do so many other sports that blowing up would be counterproductive now.
It is what i choose it to be. I have friends doing cycles and sometimes I get frustrated thinking "fuck - I'm stronger than they are, work out harder and they leave looking blown up, and come back and blow up some more". I would have liked to have doen the same when I was younger, but I didn't, so there's no point complaining now. I'm happy enough where I am.
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really only point to stay natural the first 5 years or so your lifting then get into hormones, no real reason to lift natural your whole life, just is like running on a hamster wheel.
couldn't agree more ;D , there comes a point /limit where its like trying to fight the tide ..for lack of a better analogy..just to gain a couple GD lbs...its ridiculous and what really sets me off is people saying ohh just workout harder switch it up go harder up the intensity, blah blah like it's going to do a damn thing lol.
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The only way for you to have huge muscles permanently and without jeopardizing your health is with gorilla genetics. A Human will always return to being a Human once steroids are removed, as the steroids changes your entire physiology and makes you synthesize protein beyond what Human genetics allows Human to. A gorilla sits down eating leaves and bark all day with the occasional termites and ants, and yet it carries twice the lean muscle mass of a drugged out pro at 500 lbs, and even at this bodyweight a gorilla has only 5% bodyfat. Now you could argue that getting elephant genetics would be even better, but this is not the case because elephants are too disimilar from Humans, and their genes for size are not compatible with Humans. Gorillas are the answer to all bodybuilders' plights.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Numerous times you've stated that "there are no true naturals" in the bodybuilding world (bodybuilding world including those that don't compete).
Are you stating that one of the following:
1. That everyone who lifts weights, whether recreationally or more, are on illegal steroids. and/or
2. That the act of lifting weights in and of itself increases hormone levels, therefore the person isn't "natural".
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Numerous times you've stated that "there are no true naturals" in the bodybuilding world.
Are you stating that one of the following:
1. That everyone who lifts weights, whether recreationally or more, are on illegal steroids. and/or
2. That the act of lifting weights in and of itself increases hormone levels, therefore the person isn't "natural".
gh15 does not have time for this crap.... always the same questions...lollol!
everybody who works out and looks somewhat decent is on drugs , period!
maybe , maybe .000000005 percent of this group is natural. but they do not have a life!
can not skip meals, can not date and do fun stuff, can not is there magic word!
and if your own body makes the test and other hormones... ofcourse it is natural. you answered your own question there...
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The only way for you to have huge muscles permanently and without jeopardizing your health is with gorilla genetics. A Human will always return to being a Human once steroids are removed, as the steroids changes your entire physiology and makes you synthesize protein beyond what Human genetics allows Human to. A gorilla sits down eating leaves and bark all day with the occasional termites and ants, and yet it carries twice the lean muscle mass of a drugged out pro at 500 lbs, and even at this bodyweight a gorilla has only 5% bodyfat. Now you could argue that getting elephant genetics would be even better, but this is not the case because elephants are too disimilar from Humans, and their genes for size are not compatible with Humans. Gorillas are the answer to all bodybuilders' plights.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Hahahaha... This is the most bizarre post I've ever seen!! WTF are you trying to say?!? ???
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gh15 does not have time for this crap.... always the same questions...lollol!
everybody who works out and looks somewhat decent is on drugs , period!
maybe , maybe .000000005 percent of this group is natural. but they do not have a life!
can not skip meals, can not date and do fun stuff, can not is there magic word!
and if your own body makes the test and other hormones... ofcourse it is natural. you answered your own question there...
hi gh15
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gh15 does not have time for this crap.... always the same questions...lollol!
everybody who works out and looks somewhat decent is on drugs , period!
maybe , maybe .000000005 percent of this group is natural. but they do not have a life!
can not skip meals, can not date and do fun stuff, can not is there magic word!
and if your own body makes the test and other hormones... ofcourse it is natural. you answered your own question there...
Then explain his comments that no one is natural? Or maybe better yet, STFU as you're not him. This title wasn't "For OptimusPrime" was it?
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gh15 does not have time for this crap.... always the same questions...lollol!
everybody who works out and looks somewhat decent is on drugs , period!
maybe , maybe .000000005 percent of this group is natural. but they do not have a life!
can not skip meals, can not date and do fun stuff, can not is there magic word!
and if your own body makes the test and other hormones... ofcourse it is natural. you answered your own question there...
I'm a natural. 15 years natural in fact. I travel a lot for my job, date fairly often these days and have a full and enjoyable life. So I'm not quite sure wtf you're on about. Where possible I eat often, where not, I don't. I've no ambitions being on stage or being a mass monster so it doesn't matter. You're not going to shrivel up and shrink away if you don't eat well for a week or two. Yes, I cannot compare with some steroid users but then again, I compare well with 90% of them :-*
I don't do it to look huge and turn heads, if I wanted that, I'd be sticking needles into myself. I do it for enjoyment and myself.
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gh15 does not have time for this crap.... always the same questions...lollol!
everybody who works out and looks somewhat decent is on drugs , period!
maybe , maybe .000000005 percent of this group is natural. but they do not have a life!
can not skip meals, can not date and do fun stuff, can not is there magic word!
and if your own body makes the test and other hormones... ofcourse it is natural. you answered your own question there...
Does that mean he's going to get the same cookie cutter answer he always gives?
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Yeah, i'm natural too. 19 years.
However, this thread isn't about telling one's story. It is a question for GH15.
Let's go GH.. answer the question.
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Then explain his comments that no one is natural? Or maybe better yet, STFU as you're not him. This title wasn't "For OptimusPrime" was it?
OptimusPrime can answer since he's one of GH15 gimmick accounts.
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OptimusPrime can answer since he's one of GH15 gimmick accounts.
Perhaps.
But the punctuation seems better in OP's answers.
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i am not god of hormones...
there is only one god.
i just read the same questions over and over again.!
and always the same answers as well.
and always the same lies as well, by the same people....
anyone who looks decent is on drugs.
you can built a good physique natural, but not head turning.
coach your a dwarf! hope this helps, and you are , were, and will always be on drugs....
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Then explain his comments that no one is natural? Or maybe better yet, STFU as you're not him. This title wasn't "For OptimusPrime" was it?
well.....
creatine is not natural, glutamine is not, whey is not... etc etc etc..
so calles pro hormones... plain old steroids!
99% of the "naturals use this crap"
individuals who train 5 times a week.
eat only eggs , meat and clean foods.
have no social life.
no long lasting relationships.
probably no kids.
hard to find, and they are the .0000005 % i was talking about.
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well.....
creatine is not natural, glutamine is not, whey is not... etc etc etc..
so calles pro hormones... plain old steroids!
99% of the "naturals use this crap"
individuals who train 5 times a week.
eat only eggs , meat and clean foods.
have no social life.
no long lasting relationships.
probably no kids.
hard to find, and they are the .0000005 % i was talking about.
You don't need all that crap to have a good physique naturally. By good physique I don't mean being huge.
And one more thing gh15, what do you know about natural training if all the knowledge you have is on drugs and training on them?
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Lightening flashes bright
It makes it feel like morning
Give me back the night....
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Why you must be retarded.
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You don't need all that crap to have a good physique naturally. By good physique I don't mean being huge.
And one more thing gh15, what do you know about natural training if all the knowledge you have is on drugs and training on them?
once again, do not call me gh15!!!!!
i am not!
i just happen to agree with a lot that he said.
a
lso i never said that you can not built a "good" physique
back on subject, just your definition of "good" physique differs from mine maybe?
a truly natural bb will not look impressive at all!!!
not at 5% and when bulky he or she will look fat...
so when 5% will look extremely small, and when thicker will look fat...
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once again, do not call me gh15!!!!!
i am not!
i just happen to agree with a lot that he said.
a
lso i never said that you can not built a "good" physique
back on subject, just your definition of "good" physique differs from mine maybe?
a truly natural bb will not look impressive at all!!!
not at 5% and when bulky he or she will look fat...
so when 5% will look extremely small, and when thicker will look fat...
Probably my definition of a good or impressive physique differs from yours then.
I agree that a true natural looks small with clothes on when lean and can only look big when permabulking (fat).
Maybe you're used to looking at pros, that's why naturals arent impressive to you.
Your posts reek of gh15 though, you were even attacking the coach guy.
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Numerous times you've stated that "there are no true naturals" in the bodybuilding world.
Are you stating that one of the following:
1. That everyone who lifts weights, whether recreationally or more, are on illegal steroids. and/or
2. That the act of lifting weights in and of itself increases hormone levels, therefore the person isn't "natural".
PM him, idiot. ::)
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PM him, idiot. ::)
Hey, how's this: Go fuck yourself.
:-*
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PM him, idiot. ::)
...trying to skip the 1 month queue. :-\
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Probably my definition of a good or impressive physique differs from yours then.
I agree that a true natural looks small with clothes on when lean and can only look big when permabulking (fat).
Maybe you're used to looking at pros, that's why naturals arent impressive to you.
Your posts reek of gh15 though, you were even attacking the coach guy.
well we agree then! lol...
and coach... well , he is just a liar.. i hate liars
that does not make me gh15.
and i just said he is a dwarf, and on drigs and that he will forever be on drugs... all facts!
not really an attack....
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I'm just trying to figure out GH15's blanket statement that everyone who works out is on steroids.
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I'm just trying to figure out GH15's blanket statement that everyone who works out is on steroids.
You're never going to figure it out because it's not a blanket statement. Either your reading comprehension sucks or you've not read through the bible.
alright,, just to calrify few points that need to be mentioned again ,,due to the many questions i get asked in pms ,,i can nto answer them all especialy when you ask to leave the name out,, i will do it here to begin with ,, read CARFULY,,that is also for all the other boarding memebrs who come here as visitors to read gh15,,
first of,, gh15 advice is for SERIOUS BODYBUILDERS,, i keep saying it along the years,, it is not for someone who just enter a gym first month,,i always keep mentioning it ,,my enemies and yes i call them enemies for twisting of the truth and outlieing straight out,,they chose to only quote parts of what i say and relate it to specific agenda they have,, this is importanto to understand friends,, rememebr my pupils know it but you the new reader the new follower of gh15 first and formost need TO READ THE BIBLE,,you cant just go by a posting or me purposly mispeling somethings,, it is important for you to look in the wholeeeee pictures,, so thats that no need to write to me about what other individual say ,,rememebr i consider most of them filth ,,lizards,, and straight out convicts and narcotic addicts which many many of them are
now,, the stories of sadness that come to my pms box,,and mail,, they come from many many individuals aroudn the world,,many are natural and stuck ,,many are hormonized and just dont know what to do ,, they come to me because they know the truth wil be there ,,and there is no agenda,, I CHOOSE when and whati put on the boarding,, i choose it quite carefuly i get 100s of pms ina month ,,it is uncontrolable ,,i do nto put all on the boarding,, the pms are from older individuals in most cases,, the ones who been mislead,,and then there are the new up and comers which are my strong group of bodybuild which i guide ,,they are in the in the 1000s aroudn the world ,,some just come to read my advice,, but remember gh15 get questions from all groups of age ,,from all genders of age,,and if need to show it is very easy to do ,,i just avoid some because it is too much ,,i cant control all the pms ,,im only one individual,,
now,, in regard to doses,, i keep telling that the usage of hormones can be done with little dose and with mega dose,,inorder to grow to seasoned advanced bodybuild who compete high level you need MEGA DOSE ,,IT WAS ALWAYS THE CASE,,if you play with 100 mg trenbolona ace and 100 mg propionets ..you will end up 200lb 6% and be stuck there for ever and ever till you get old and need to quit bodybuild,, as simple as that,, so me saying the truth doesnt mean you should quote me wrong ,,alaways attach my full quotes with the information i provide,,you will find i am never wrong and you will find i am alwyas very calculated and always advice to the point with out going around the point
now,, in regarding the repetetive question of bodybuild as in modern cult we are living in right now for the last 2 decades,,
friends,, it is diff cult,,the thign is that while i give you the utmost new information ,,there are the lizards and th eliars who try to make a buck and dont want me to do it ...they say my information is not updates while in reailtiy im the fuckin information ,,i do it on myself for very very many years,, and got the the top,, it is important to understand that modern bodybuild is DIFFERENT THAN OLD BODYBUILD,, and how is it diff? i will write it in capital for all to see and understand
MODERN BODYBUILD IS A SPECIFIC ACTIVITY THAT TAKES IN BODYBUILD THAT IS NOT FULLY READY AND BLOW THE FELLA UP,, TAKE A LOOK AT LETS TAKE FOR EXAMPLE ROLLEY,,IM TIRED OF TAKING PHILSULINA AS EXAMPEL SO WE WILL TAKE ANOTHER BODYBUILD ...ROLLEY,, LOOK AT HIM BEFORE BEFORE... HE STARTED GH AND INSULINA...YOU WILL NOTICE THAT HE WASNT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO THE TOP LEVEL COMPETITORS OF THE 70S AND 80S,,NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE,,HE WAS WHAT YOU CALL ADVANCED GYM RAT COMPETETIVE IN SOME WAYS ,,HE WAS GOOD BUT NOT GREAT,,
WHAT MADE ROLLEY GREAT,,HE IS NOT GREAT BUT IMPROVED... WHAT MADE HIM IMPROVED,,AND WHAT MADE THE JAP IMPROVED AND WHAT MADE LUKIE WOOD IMPROVED BEFORE MISHKO ROBBED HIM FROM HIS INNOCENCE AND WHAT MADE MUSTAF IMPROVED,,AND WHAT MADE KUKELO THE KID IMPORVED AND WHAT MADE ALL OF US IMPROVED IN THE NEWWWWW MODEN BODYBUILD IS THE BLOW UP FROM WITHIN METHOD,,THAT WAS NOT PRESENT IN THE PAST,,WHY? BECAUS THERE WAS NO GH IN THE DOSES WE USE NOW AND NO INSULINA,,
WHAT SEPERATE US FROM YOU IS NOT OUR AMAZING WONDERFUL GENETICS ....ITS US TAKING 3 VIALS OF LEGIT GH A DAY INSTED OF YOUR 5 IU ,, YOU TAKE HALF A VIAL ,,WE TAKE 3 VIALS... VERY VERY SIMPLE ,,,TRY FOR SHORT TIME TO UP THE NORDIC GH YOU GET SINCE ALL OF YOU BUY FROM NORDIC ,,THE ONES WHO GET SOMWEHRE IN BODYBUILD,, TRY TO INJECT IT AT A RATIO OF A VIAL A DAY ,,SEE HOW FAT YOU BLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW UPPPPPPPPPPPPPP FROMMMMMMMMMMMMM THE INSIDE OUT,,EVERYTHING GETS ROUNDER BLOWING UP ,,ONLY THING THAT GETS TIGHTER IS THE FUCKINNNNNNNNNNNNN WAIST,,
YES FRIENDS,,THE POWER OF GH! THE POWER OF LEGIT GH THAT THE MOTHER FUCKIN LIZARDS WHO OPEN THEIR MOUTH DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT AND WANT YOU TO USE AT MINIMAL DOSES SO YOU STAY STUCK AND THEY CAN ROB SOME MORE MONEY OFF YOU ON SOME NEW GRAS FED SPECIAL CREATINE THAT PENETRATE YOUR EAR IF YOU SLEEP ON IT AT NIGHT,, THEY ARE SCAMBGS AND LIARS,,IT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU TO REMEMBER,,THE REASON THEY DONT TELL YOU THAT IS BECAUSE NO BODYBUILD WANT COMPETITION ,,THEY HAVE SPECIFIC MENTALITY ,,MANY OF THEM ARE CONVICTS,,MANY OF THEM ARE NARCSISTS,, AND MANY OF THEM WANT TO MAKE MONEY FACE TO FACE WITH ADVICE THAT WILL ONLY GET YOU FAR ENOUGH FOR YOU TO HIRE THEM AGAIN! FOR ANOTHER SHOW WHEN YOU WILL GAIN ANOTHER 1.3 LBS OF NEW MUSCLE INSTED OF ALREADY BEING 10LB OF EXTRA LEAN MUSCLE LARGER....
SEEE FRIENDS ,,THIS IS WHAT I BEEN FIGHTING FOR MANY YEARS,, I WAS PART OF THEM ,,I WAS I USED TO LIE TO YOUR FACE,, I USED TO BE ON COMMERICALS I USED TO SELL TONS OF SHIT FOR THIS SCAMBAGS ,,I USED TO LIEV A LIE,,BUT WHEN I DIE I KNOW WHERE IM GOING ,,WHEN THEY DIE THEY ARE GOING TO BE ROTTEN IN HELL FOR THE LIES THEY FED SO MANY FELLAS WITH STORIES ,,SAD SOTIES THAT I NEED TO READ IN MY PM EVERY WEEK FROM SO MANY FELLAS AROUDN THE WORLD THAT TARE THEIR ASS APART IN THE GYM BECAUE SOME MOTHER FUCKIN SCAMBAG LIKE RON HERIS AND MIKE ARNELDS SAID THEY SHOULD BECUASE THEY NEED TO GET TO SOME POINT FIRST WHEN THEIR RIGHT HAND IS WORKING FAST ENOUGH SO THEY CAN GIVE MORE MONEY AND THEN THEY CAN START THEIR CYCLES,, BALONIE BALONIE BALONIE AND MORE BALONIE FED BY FELLAS WHO WRITE FOR BOARDINGS ,,FELLAS WHO MISLEAD YOU RIGHT AND LEFT ,,
I DESPEIZE THIS FELLAS AND I CONSIDER THEM FILTH ,,IT IS NOT LIKE TWISTER-COACH WHICH IS ONLY TWISTER OF THE TRUTH BUT A GOOD FELLA ,,IT IS REAL REAL SCAMBAGS THAT ARE CONVICTS AND DRUG ADICTS,,AND I MEAN REAL NARCOTICS,,REAL CRIMES,,
REMEMBER THIS FRIENDS,, LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE SEPDNIGN ON BOARDS PARADING YOUR 191 LB 65 ....IF YOU WANT TO BE COMPETETIVE WITH THE BIG BOYS NOW DAY ,,YOU GOT TO DO WHAT THEY DO ,,AND MANY OF THEM DO IT VERY EARLY ,,IT IS JSUT THE TRUTH ,,IT IS ALL HUSH HUSH ,,LIES OVER LIES FED BY MOTHER FUKKIN GURUS WHO LIE RIGHT AND LEFT PRIME EXAMPEL IS PALUMBO WHO POISIONED BODYBUILD WITH BUNK GH THAT WAS ANTI DURETIC ,,HE POISONED FELLAS THATS WHY HE SET IN PRISON! BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THOSE LIZARD,,YOU ALSO SAW WHAT HE DID AND HOW HE ABUSED BILLY GUN FROM THIS BOARDING,,
EVERY PROFESIONAL YOU LOOK NOW AT IS BLOWN UP FROM WITHIN ,,THEY ALL ARE 200-210-220 ...THEY ALL BLOWN UP FROM WITHIN TO 250 260 270 WITH HIGH DOSES GH AND INSULINA,,THIS BLOW UP BLOWS YOU HARD,,IT ENLARGE YOU FROM THE INSIDE,,IT IS LIKE BALOON BUT HARDER DUE TO LOW BODYFAT SINCE IF YOU REMEMBER I TELL YOU TO START IT WHEN LEAN ENOUGH SO YOU CAN GROW AND TRULY GROW THE WAY KEVIN DID ,,
SO I SUGGEST EVERY ONE OF YOU WHEN FINISH PLAY WITH BALONIE GH ,,AND WHEN REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT NORDIC IS THE ONLY ONLY! SUPPLIER OF GH THAT IS TRUSTED,,AND NO NORDIC DOES NOT GIVE GH15 ANY SHARES,,HE JUST BEEN THERE FOR MANY YEARS AND THE MOST PROOVED SOURCE IN HISTORY OF BODYBUILD EVER! ,,THE GH IS TRUE GH AND NOT A MIX BETWEN PEPTIDE AND GH ,,NOT A MIX BETWEEN GHRTUYE2 THAT MARCUS FROM SPAIN TRY TO BALONIE YOU WITH ,,IT IS NOT SOME PEPTIDE THAT MAKE YOU LOSE FAT YET DONT BLOW YOU UP FROM WITHIN RIGHT,, THE LEGIT GH I TALK ABOUT BLWO YOU UP FROM WITHTIN ,,WITH LOTS OF TESTOSTERONA ON WEEK 3-4 YOU LOOK LIKE A DIFF PERSON ! WITH INSULINA ITS A PRO! ,,THIS IS HOW WE DO IT ,,YES YOU NEED EXPERIENCE WITH HORMONES,,YES,, BUT EVERYONE WHO EVER GOT ANYWHER EIN THE LAST 20 YEARS DOES IT THIS WAY ,,THIS IS HOW IT IS DONE,,IT WASNT THIS WAY IN THE EARLY 80S AND 70S ,,NOW! IT IS ,,
IF YOU EVER TOOK A VIAL OF THE RED TOP A DAY YOU WOULD START SEEING WHAT GH15 IS TALKING ABOUT,,YOU WILL SEE YOU GETTING WIDER BY THE DAY ,,INFACT BY THE HOUR!! FROM THE INSIDE OUT FRIENDS,, FROM THE INSIDE FUCKIN OUT,,MIDSECTION INSTED OF GETTING FATTER AND BLOOFIER WITH 1-2 GRAM TESTOSTERONA AND 1 GRAM EQUIPONA OR NPPIONA...MIDSECITON WILL GET TIGHTER AND THE ABS WILL PUSH OUT! THIS IS THE TRUTH RIGHT THERE! ,,EVERY MUSCLE WILL COME OUT SCREAMING,,YES IT WIL HAVE SOME WATER ON IT BUT IT WONT BE NO FAT!! IT WILL BE WATER,,AND YOU WIL BE THE NEW TALK OF ANY GYM YOU ENTER,,YOU WIL ALSO THEN BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO COMPETE AMONG THE FILTH LIARS WHO SOLD YOU ILLUSION ALL THOSE YEARS,,AND YOU WILL LEARN TO HATE THEM ,,HATE THEM WITH PASSION ,,
FELLAS BEING MISLEAD RIGHT AND LEFT BY PROMINENET FELLAS IN THE CULT,,THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND SHOULD BE REFERED TO AS CRIME
gh15 approved
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I definitely haven't read thru his "bible" as i'm not taking illegal steroids.
I read thru his barely coherent babble just now and it still doesn't answer my questions.
How is it possible that if i've been training for 19 years and never taken a steroid, I'm hormonized?
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I definitely haven't read thru his "bible" as i'm not taking illegal steroids.
I read thru his barely coherent babble just now and it still doesn't answer my questions.
How is it possible that if i've been training for 19 years and never taken a steroid, I'm hormonized?
u must be one dumb fucker!
how about this: "all girls today are sluts"
and one girl comes along and starts the brainless thread like u have started and says "how can i be a slut if i still havnt had sex yet?"
learn to read between the lines. he is making a fukn STATEMENT about bodybuilding as of 2011!!
this one here just finished 10 years of university. u can tell lol.
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coltrane you are a fucking moron, asking a fucking moronic question.
Fuck off.
Moron.
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No, asshole, he isn't just making a statement. Go through and read his shit. I've posted my natty pics, along with many others, and he states we're all hormonized along with ALL other bodybuilders.
He dismisses in total the statement that any bodybuilder is natural.
When the dude admits that someone can have a decent build without steroids, i'll be satisfied. Until then, STFU and don't assume you know everytthing.
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Ha. Look at all the GH15 disciples coming to his aid. Bunch of brainwashed drug addicts.
There are natural competitions out there which are drug tested. And there are people out there that don't take steroids and have good builds.
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Coltrane STFU. Nobody cares. Real bodybuilding is all drugs. Not your fucking "staying in shape" natural BS.
Hope this helps.
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Coltrane STFU. Nobody cares. Real bodybuilding is all drugs. Not your fucking "staying in shape" natural BS.
Hope this helps.
Point i'm making is that yes, some bodybuilders are on drugs, and some aren't . GH can't seem to accept that.
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colontrain.
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All you little juicers at gonna be sick to your stomach when that xray reveals one day that you've got cancer or a failing kidney etc. You're gonna wish you hadn't popped all that shit in your ass.
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Point i'm making is that yes, some bodybuilders are on drugs, and some aren't . GH can't seem to accept that.
Imo, being natural is NOT bodybuilding... and im natural so go figure.
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No, asshole, he isn't just making a statement. Go through and read his shit. I've posted my natty pics, along with many others, and he states we're all hormonized along with ALL other bodybuilders.
He dismisses in total the statement that any bodybuilder is natural.
When the dude admits that someone can have a decent build without steroids, i'll be satisfied. Until then, STFU and don't assume you know everytthing.
fuck im seriuously laughing here. he has said many times there are great naturals out there. that he has trianed them personally.
now this is the part where u bring up the part about " no no, he said there are no naturals" ...this is the STATEMENT of bodybuilding 2011.
but he has said there are naturals and the limits are written in stone for you to read.
fall outside and above those limits? you've used a little help along the way.
still confused about this issue mind fucking u so hard u had to start a thread or would u like me to continue for u?
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colontrain.
colon trannie :D
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haha he's riding the cocktrain as we speak.
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I definitely haven't read thru his "bible" as i'm not taking illegal steroids.
I read thru his barely coherent babble just now and it still doesn't answer my questions.
How is it possible that if i've been training for 19 years and never taken a steroid, I'm hormonized?
Don't criticize someone for saying something that they didn't say, it's dishonest.
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I'm just trying to figure out GH15's blanket statement that everyone who works out is on steroids.
He sometimes exaggerates for shock I think, especially when it comes to natural training. You really have to wonder how much gh15 knows about natural training when all his knowledge is on drugs.
In my opinion, whenever gh15 isn't giving drug advice take his posts as entertainment.
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Numerous times you've stated that "there are no true naturals" in the bodybuilding world (bodybuilding world including those that don't compete).
Are you stating that one of the following:
1. That everyone who lifts weights, whether recreationally or more, are on illegal steroids. and/or
2. That the act of lifting weights in and of itself increases hormone levels, therefore the person isn't "natural".
when i say there is no natural i mean as in general ,,ofcourse there are fellas who come day in day out natural and never get anywehre,,what gh15 mean is that in COMPETETIVE BODYBUILD THERE IS NO TRUE NATURAL ASIDE FROM VERY LOW LEVEL COMPETITIONS WHERE A PERCENTAGE OF COMPETITORS WILL BE NATURAL BUT IT IS VERY VERY SMAL PERCENTAGE USUALY 2-3 OUT OF THE ALL COMPETITORS WHO COMPETE THERE THAT DAY ,,IN HIGHER LEVEL SHOWS THERE ARE NO NATURAL PERIOD NOT IN NATURAL ORGANIZATIONS AND OFCOURSE NOT IN THE NPC,,INFACT IN HIGHER LEVEL SHOWS THEY ARE ADDICT TO HORMONES NOT ONLY USING BUT ADDICTS!
as in general rule now day ,,competing or not competing ...veryu very very VERY few are the true naturals,,you can count them on one hand ,,they are very stringy looking ,,they are very little when shreded ,,they pull good illusion when pumped and real low bodyfat but they fade next to any hormonized fella that compete or not if that fella is in decent shape,,
gh15 approved
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Coltrane STFU. Nobody cares. Real bodybuilding is all drugs. Not your fucking "staying in shape" natural BS.
Hope this helps.
Keep telling yourself that fuckface.
Real bodybuilding lololol real bodybuilding is no drugs, heavy weight and persistance, the rest is genetics.
All the drug abusers like to make out otherwise because they have never done fuck all without abuse.
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fuck im seriuously laughing here. he has said many times there are great naturals out there. that he has trianed them personally.
now this is the part where u bring up the part about " no no, he said there are no naturals" ...this is the STATEMENT of bodybuilding 2011.
but he has said there are naturals and the limits are written in stone for you to read.
fall outside and above those limits? you've used a little help along the way.
still confused about this issue mind fucking u so hard u had to start a thread or would u like me to continue for u?
Yeah ok, irrespective of bone structure or metabolism, natural muscle fibre ammount, everybody will weigh excatly the same at a certain height. As according to gh15.
Expert opinion lol.
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fuck im seriuously laughing here. he has said many times there are great naturals out there. that he has trianed them personally.
now this is the part where u bring up the part about " no no, he said there are no naturals" ...this is the STATEMENT of bodybuilding 2011.
but he has said there are naturals and the limits are written in stone for you to read.
fall outside and above those limits? you've used a little help along the way.
still confused about this issue mind fucking u so hard u had to start a thread or would u like me to continue for u?
That's where i, along with others get pissed. I fall outside of his "limits" and am natural. I haven't had that help along the way.
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when i say there is no natural i mean as in general ,,ofcourse there are fellas who come day in day out natural and never get anywehre,,what gh15 mean is that in COMPETETIVE BODYBUILD THERE IS NO TRUE NATURAL ASIDE FROM VERY LOW LEVEL COMPETITIONS WHERE A PERCENTAGE OF COMPETITORS WILL BE NATURAL BUT IT IS VERY VERY SMAL PERCENTAGE USUALY 2-3 OUT OF THE ALL COMPETITORS WHO COMPETE THERE THAT DAY ,,IN HIGHER LEVEL SHOWS THERE ARE NO NATURAL PERIOD NOT IN NATURAL ORGANIZATIONS AND OFCOURSE NOT IN THE NPC,,INFACT IN HIGHER LEVEL SHOWS THEY ARE ADDICT TO HORMONES NOT ONLY USING BUT ADDICTS!
as in general rule now day ,,competing or not competing ...veryu very very VERY few are the true naturals,,you can count them on one hand ,,they are very stringy looking ,,they are very little when shreded ,,they pull good illusion when pumped and real low bodyfat but they fade next to any hormonized fella that compete or not if that fella is in decent shape,,
gh15 approved
Now this makes a little more sense. Sometimes i think things get lost in translation through threads.
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That's where i, along with others get pissed. I fall outside of his "limits" and am natural. I haven't had that help along the way.
So what's your stats? Height, weight, % bodyfat? Height and weight and easily determined and not really left up for dispute, but % bodyfat is a whole different story. Case in point, maybe you think that you are sitting at sub-6, when in fact you are actually 8-9%
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Yeah, i'm natural too. 19 years.
However, this thread isn't about telling one's story. It is a question for GH15.
Let's go GH.. answer the question.
You've been busting ass in the gym eating 6 times a day for 19 years, or just been "working out" for 19 years?
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You've been busting ass in the gym eating 6 times a day for 19 years, or just been "working out" for 19 years?
The first five or so years no attention to diet. Then after that, I got on the bandwagon and paid attention to diet. That is when my physique made progress.
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There's a difference between actual training and "working out".
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There's a difference between actual training and "working out".
If youre trying to be a techical smart ass, point made.
I train. I work-out. I lift weights. I bodybuild. I pay attention to diet.
i don't compete on stage.
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So what's your stats? Height, weight, % bodyfat? Height and weight and easily determined and not really left up for dispute, but % bodyfat is a whole different story. Case in point, maybe you think that you are sitting at sub-6, when in fact you are actually 8-9%
I'm def not below 6%. I'm probably hovering around 12%.
Right now 215 pounds, 6 foot.
I've posted pics numerous times and was declared a steroid user by GH. A guy that doesn't know me at all. That's why I get pissed (along with a few other hard working lifters on here). He makes blanket assumptions.
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In sum, there is quite a lot a person can do in terms of building a great physique without steroids. The components are:
--training hard and smart
--knowing your body and it's nutrition
--consistency
--time
There are so many prime examples of great physiques out there that haven't been saturated with hormones.
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It wasn't aimed toward you. Just saying there is a difference. Not trying to be a smartass.
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Ha. Look at all the GH15 disciples coming to his aid. Bunch of brainwashed drug addicts.
There are natural competitions out there which are drug tested. And there are people out there that don't take steroids and have good builds.
True. Post up a few, let me see who you think is natty and who isn't. Curious.
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In sum, there is quite a lot a person can do in terms of building a great physique without steroids. The components are:
--training hard and smart
--knowing your body and it's nutrition
--consistency
--time
There are so many prime examples of great physiques out there that haven't been saturated with hormones.
All true and good points, however, you will one day reach a plateau of gaining lean muscle and it will be like the great wall of china lol...meaning theres no knocking it down. TRUE bodybuilding is knowing these essentials as you pointed out and a mix of drugs (just being real) that is if you want to compete, if not, sure you can still have a good physique :)
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All true and good points, however, you will one day reach a plateau of gaining lean muscle and it will be like the great wall of china lol...meaning theres no knocking it down. TRUE bodybuilding is knowing these essentials as you pointed out and a mix of drugs (just being real) that is if you want to compete, if not, sure you can still have a good physique :)
and if you dont know when your time is to get on the hormone train,,,and you play with the natural balonie ,,,you can burn out ,,you will go for years 2-3 maybe more stuck ,,some go 5-6 years before they realize and brave enough...like you need ot be breave lol ,,to get hormones
natural has limits,,hormonized has limits too ,,look at jason he cant grow no matter hwat he does now,,philsulina is also maxed you will see,,so there is a point that only thing that grow is the gut,,
some true naturals ,,that been to halodrol lol ,,well i consider them natural since im nuts most wouldnt consider them natural ,,but some of those look very good WHEN PUMPED,,for about 10 minutes if low body fat,,they really can give the illusion of juiced up lol UNTIL they turn to the side ways lol ,,but again natural usualy will do anything to enhance his look ,,he will have no life,,he will have no social life,,he will have to have his meals on the sot on the spot all the time unless get into flat land so fast its nto even funny,,and to begin with even if they eat all the time they are flat if nto pumped,,they cant have any stress ,,they got to sleep right,,they got to train right,,they got to do everything to the t inorder ot look good for 10 min when pumped IF LEAN ENOUGH,,
the fact that you went to tann yourself for a month doesnt mean you imrpoved your natural physiqe.....you still same only more tann ,,the fact you lost few lbs of water and fat doesnt mean you grew as a natural since your weight loss will be ON THE SCALE,,you will be down to 178 and yes leaner looking but you wont be able to be that lean if you remained your 184lb...
natural bodybuild is nto a nice site lol
gh15 approved
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gh15 is an idiot- period.
ive trained with guys who are naturals and one fella always complained that he found it hard to put on mass cos he was so naturally lean- im talking 6 pack abs, striations and veins all over...not a huge guy but no slouch either...we measured him at 6% bfat year round. he ran track in the summer. never ever touched a steroid in his life.
then theres others who do it as a lifestyle and dont compete and they are solid, well built guys who are accused of as steroid heads regularly...they love it!...never touched a steroid ever.
then theres junior state level comps with drug free guys winning and sporting decent physiques who again get accused and never have used..WAY over the GH15 "limits"...then there's professional athletes in contact sports with serious drug testing regimes like AFL that spend most of their year running loads of miles and in the off season pumping weights who also weigh outside of the gh15 "limits". The evidence is all around for everyone to see...but if you take a logical approach you are accused of being naive and not having any real life experience.
finally, why would anyone give this pin cushion any credibility when his background is amongst drug dealers, liars, drama queens, narcissists and scams and he has absolutely no education or credentials "otherwise"?
in any other situation he'd be laughed at and told to go back to the fruit picking line- or assembly line- and keep lifting those panels, picking the fruit or pressing the buttons and let the adults do the important stuff.
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Hahahaha... This is the most bizarre post I've ever seen!! WTF are you trying to say?!? ???
lol ,,he is bizzare indeed lol
gh15 approved
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how big was he disco stu?
probably under the criteria that gh15 said has absolit natural limits...U DUMB FUCKING IDIOT.
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gh15 is an idiot- period.
ive trained with guys who are naturals and one fella always complained that he found it hard to put on mass cos he was so naturally lean- im talking 6 pack abs, striations and veins all over...not a huge guy but no slouch either...we measured him at 6% bfat year round. he ran track in the summer. never ever touched a steroid in his life.
then theres others who do it as a lifestyle and dont compete and they are solid, well built guys who are accused of as steroid heads regularly...they love it!...never touched a steroid ever.
then theres junior state level comps with drug free guys winning and sporting decent physiques who again get accused and never have used..WAY over the GH15 "limits"...then there's professional athletes in contact sports with serious drug testing regimes like AFL that spend most of their year running loads of miles and in the off season pumping weights who also weigh outside of the gh15 "limits". The evidence is all around for everyone to see...but if you take a logical approach you are accused of being naive and not having any real life experience.
finally, why would anyone give this pin cushion any credibility when his background is amongst drug dealers, liars, drama queens, narcissists and scams and he has absolutely no education or credentials "otherwise"?
in any other situation he'd be laughed at and told to go back to the fruit picking line- or assembly line- and keep lifting those panels, picking the fruit or pressing the buttons and let the adults do the important stuff.
welcome to the movie .....
UTOPIA ,,
written directed and produced by the one and only
disco spilberstu
gh15 approved
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suckmymuscle's wet dream was stolen from him using elaborate technology, for the purpose of funding the R&D costs of this very same tech -- behold:
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HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU PLATEAU, U WORK YOUR WAY DOWN A BIT. TAKE HALF A STEP BACK NOT A FULL, THEN TAKE TWO STEP FORWARDS.
lets say you plateau'd on 500mg test a week at about 200lbs...work down to about 250mg test for 3-4 months, you'll lose some weight and when you do, then go back up. i've noticed great gains like that. I've tried to go off and just get back on when it's time, but i hate becoming soft. soft is for pussies.
GO 500MG FOR LIKE 3 MONTHS, PLATEAU...BY THE END OF MONTH 6 IM AT 250MG, AND I START GETTING SOFTER, THEN BOOM GO TO 350, 425, 500 IN LIKE 3-4 WEEK INTERVALS AND bada bing bada boom!
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gh15 is an idiot- period.
this
totally irational....
lets examine his logic (or lack of) he has a set formula of what a natural bb falls under...
he sees someone that falls outside of that bracket ... straight away they are a liar and on drugs....
??... so he made the rules on whats natural we are to assume...
and you have idiots who actually follow this gimmick....
even if he turns out to be a pro... which makes no difference to me
he is a complete idiot.
..
thats all
mes
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and if you dont know when your time is to get on the hormone train,,,and you play with the natural balonie ,,,you can burn out ,,you will go for years 2-3 maybe more stuck ,,some go 5-6 years before they realize and brave enough...like you need ot be breave lol ,,to get hormones
natural has limits,,hormonized has limits too ,,look at jason he cant grow no matter hwat he does now,,philsulina is also maxed you will see,,so there is a point that only thing that grow is the gut,,
some true naturals ,,that been to halodrol lol ,,well i consider them natural since im nuts most wouldnt consider them natural ,,but some of those look very good WHEN PUMPED,,for about 10 minutes if low body fat,,they really can give the illusion of juiced up lol UNTIL they turn to the side ways lol ,,but again natural usualy will do anything to enhance his look ,,he will have no life,,he will have no social life,,he will have to have his meals on the sot on the spot all the time unless get into flat land so fast its nto even funny,,and to begin with even if they eat all the time they are flat if nto pumped,,they cant have any stress ,,they got to sleep right,,they got to train right,,they got to do everything to the t inorder ot look good for 10 min when pumped IF LEAN ENOUGH,,
the fact that you went to tann yourself for a month doesnt mean you imrpoved your natural physiqe.....you still same only more tann ,,the fact you lost few lbs of water and fat doesnt mean you grew as a natural since your weight loss will be ON THE SCALE,,you will be down to 178 and yes leaner looking but you wont be able to be that lean if you remained your 184lb...
natural bodybuild is nto a nice site lol
gh15 approved
Agreed on all points. You know my story. 5'10 TRUE natural couldnt push past 185 ...now im leaned down bc like u said with true natural if everything not to the T which i havent been im leaner now the past 2 months i went to 176.
OH...and i got brave for the first time today wit some gooood ol test prop ;D
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Agreed on all points. You know my story. 5'10 TRUE natural couldnt push past 185 ...now im leaned down bc like u said with true natural if everything not to the T which i havent been im leaner now the past 2 months i went to 176.
OH...and i got brave for the first time today wit some gooood ol test prop ;D
You couldn't do it, i guess that means no one can.
What do you bench? i want to know what the limit for tht is too ty. ::)
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The only way for you to have huge muscles permanently and without jeopardizing your health is with gorilla genetics. A Human will always return to being a Human once steroids are removed, as the steroids changes your entire physiology and makes you synthesize protein beyond what Human genetics allows Human to. A gorilla sits down eating leaves and bark all day with the occasional termites and ants, and yet it carries twice the lean muscle mass of a drugged out pro at 500 lbs, and even at this bodyweight a gorilla has only 5% bodyfat. Now you could argue that getting elephant genetics would be even better, but this is not the case because elephants are too disimilar from Humans, and their genes for size are not compatible with Humans. Gorillas are the answer to all bodybuilders' plights.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Lol
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HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU PLATEAU, U WORK YOUR WAY DOWN A BIT. TAKE HALF A STEP BACK NOT A FULL, THEN TAKE TWO STEP FORWARDS.
lets say you plateau'd on 500mg test a week at about 200lbs...work down to about 250mg test for 3-4 months, you'll lose some weight and when you do, then go back up. i've noticed great gains like that. I've tried to go off and just get back on when it's time, but i hate becoming soft. soft is for pussies.
GO 500MG FOR LIKE 3 MONTHS, PLATEAU...BY THE END OF MONTH 6 IM AT 250MG, AND I START GETTING SOFTER, THEN BOOM GO TO 350, 425, 500 IN LIKE 3-4 WEEK INTERVALS AND bada bing bada boom!
your going to stay small but good pump if you use those kind of mg's, need to go big eventually, that is serious beginner stuff.
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You couldn't do it, i guess that means no one can.
What do you bench? i want to know what the limit for tht is too ty. ::)
Bench? wtf does that matter this is bodybuild not powerlifting I am pretty strong though for my size do 100 db's for like 10 reps ..and I didn't say nobody could pass that weight...please tell me where I said that. Anyone can gain weight...thats a matter of cals..not everyone can gain lean muscle mass and if you don't realize that then you don't realize anything i'm done talking.
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I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth mentioning again. Back in the 1980s when aas was legal and you could get them from a doctor one of the main doctors at the time, Dr. Walzak (sp?), who had an office in Sherman Oaks and catered to all the major bodybuilders from Redondo Beach on up North, whereas that other more famous Dr. (I forget his name lol) took care of everybody in Orange County on South, gave an informal seminar in our gym regarding steroids. He was very good friends with the owner of our gym in Torrance, CA, Mr. Barlow. I was pretty naive at the time and it was only years later that I found out they were a couple of old queens deep in the schmoe business.
His protocol was that you need at the very least, 3 years of hard serious training, but preferred five years. Obviously, if you start at 12 years old he doesn't believe you should be on hormones at 17 yrs. but gave an ideal as someone who starts at say 14-15 and trains consistently and seriously. Then by the time he's 19-20 he's ready to see him. He believe that if you know what you are doing and train correctly and get the proper rest and nutrition you will max out muscle size wise after about at most five years though most max out sooner. You can make dramatic changes in body weight but very little in actual muscle.
Someone asked him about cycling. How long one should stay on AAS before going off and allowing the body to "normalize." He kind of smiled and said that you stay on for as long as you want to keep on growing. "But what about this 6-8 week cycles and then taking 6-8 weeks off to allow your body to "fire back up" it's nature production and allow the "receptors" to "freshen" up?" He just shook his head and said nonsense.
He put it like this: Say you are at a certain weight, maybe 180 lbs, and you maintain that weight eating 2,500 calories a day. If you want to gain weight you have to increase those calories. And say you increase those calories by 1000 your weight will increase up to a point, say 200 lbs before it stabilizes. Now if you "cycle" and go back down to 2,500 calories your weight will slowly drop back down to your original 180 lbs. You have to maintain that new 3,500 calories if you want to maintain the 200 lb body weight. Now if you want to continue to gain more you then have to increase your calories even further.
Though he admitted it wasn't a perfect analogy he really wanted to drive home the point that even under idea conditions you will reach a natural limit in muscle size fairly quickly. If you want to increase muscle mass after reaching your natural limit you have to take AAS. And taking a certain amount will get you to a certain size tough it varies among individuals. When you go off, or cycle, you will simply go back down to your original nature limit of muscle size just like your weight will go back down to 180 lbs when you go back down to your original 2,500 caloric intake. He pointed out that it doesn't necessarily mean you will lose weight, though eventually you will, but that you will lose muscle size. That's what is happening when trainees say that they maintain their body weight, even most of their strength, when off they just get softer. It really means that they are slowly losing muscle and the softness comes from the increase fat due to the caloric intake not being reduced.
So he believed that if you want to go this route you better be willing to be in it for the long haul because you should never go off. He believed that cycling was actually bad for the body. The constant hormonal fluctuations. You either decide you want to be an enhance bodybuilder and exceed your natural limits or stay a natural and accept your natural limits. If you want to continue to grow beyond your natural limits you have to take anabolic compounds and when you go off you will lose all your gains eventually.
And just like you will reach a sticking point in weight at a certain caloric surplus and have to further increase caloric consumption if you want to gain still more weight. You will also reach a sticking point at a certain level of anabolic dosage and will have to increase that dosage if you want to make further gains.
In summary, once you have training, nutrition and rest down pat and know what you are doing you will reach a nature limit very fast. And it won't be much. He estimated maybe 20 pounds at most for someone around 5'9 or 5'10. This is 20 pounds of real lean muscle tissue. After that it's how much anabolics you ingest.
Now this was back in the early 1980s, I think it was 1983, where everybody talked in terms of cycling, as they still do now. But he was pretty clear: adding anabolic compounds is absolutely necessary to increase muscle growth beyond normal levels, increase dosage if you want to get larger, and you will start to lose muscle when you go off no matter what you do and eventually lose everything if you go off completely. And off course caloric intake and training is a given.
His starting protocol was 200mg of Deca and 3 Ciba dianabol tablets, 15mg/day. He did recommend cycling orals only because of liver health. And you just go from there. No testosterona was mentioned.
good post sir. thank you for typing that up.
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The only way for you to have huge muscles permanently and without jeopardizing your health is with gorilla genetics. A Human will always return to being a Human once steroids are removed, as the steroids changes your entire physiology and makes you synthesize protein beyond what Human genetics allows Human to. A gorilla sits down eating leaves and bark all day with the occasional termites and ants, and yet it carries twice the lean muscle mass of a drugged out pro at 500 lbs, and even at this bodyweight a gorilla has only 5% bodyfat. Now you could argue that getting elephant genetics would be even better, but this is not the case because elephants are too disimilar from Humans, and their genes for size are not compatible with Humans. Gorillas are the answer to all bodybuilders' plights.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
You must be either stoned outta your damn tree or a couple cans short of a six pack, but I get what your saying. :-\
Gorillas rule the jungle, dawg. ftw
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your going to stay small but good pump if you use those kind of mg's, need to go big eventually, that is serious beginner stuff.
IM 20 YEARS OLD. BEEN DOING THIS SHIT FOR 8 MONTHS NOW.
IVE GONE FROM 250MG UP TO 500MG, BACK DOWN TO 250MG, AND ON MY WAY UP AGAIN..NOW AT 350MG TEST. ALL HUMAN GRADE TESTOSTERONA...LOVIN IT.
THINK I SHOULD UP THE DOSE?
I WAS THINKING OF INSTEAD ADDING SOME OF THAT NORDIC GH BUT CANNOT FIND IT SO I MAY GET RIPTROPIN. 4IU DAY AND WORK MY WAY UP.
PREFER TO STICK TO TESTOSTERONA, GH, PROVIRON, AND SOME MASTERON. I DO THIS FIRST AND FOREMOST TO POUND VAGINA, LOOK FUCKING AWESOME, AND THATS ABOUT IT. SO MY DICKS GOTTA BE IN TOP SHAPE 24/7, 365. IDK HOW ILL REACT TO NANDRONOLA OR TRENBOLONA....CANT GO LIMP.
ADD 4IU OR GO UP TO 600MG?
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I'm def not below 6%. I'm probably hovering around 12%.
Right now 215 pounds, 6 foot.
I've posted pics numerous times and was declared a steroid user by GH. A guy that doesn't know me at all. That's why I get pissed (along with a few other hard working lifters on here). He makes blanket assumptions.
your bang on about GH he just dont like hardcore weighlifters, and thinks theres nobody is capable of hard work.
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IM 20 YEARS OLD. BEEN DOING THIS SHIT FOR 8 MONTHS NOW.
IVE GONE FROM 250MG UP TO 500MG, BACK DOWN TO 250MG, AND ON MY WAY UP AGAIN..NOW AT 350MG TEST. ALL HUMAN GRADE TESTOSTERONA...LOVIN IT.
THINK I SHOULD UP THE DOSE?
I WAS THINKING OF INSTEAD ADDING SOME OF THAT NORDIC GH BUT CANNOT FIND IT SO I MAY GET RIPTROPIN. 4IU DAY AND WORK MY WAY UP.
PREFER TO STICK TO TESTOSTERONA, GH, PROVIRON, AND SOME MASTERON. I DO THIS FIRST AND FOREMOST TO POUND VAGINA, LOOK FUCKING AWESOME, AND THATS ABOUT IT. SO MY DICKS GOTTA BE IN TOP SHAPE 24/7, 365. IDK HOW ILL REACT TO NANDRONOLA OR TRENBOLONA....CANT GO LIMP.
ADD 4IU OR GO UP TO 600MG?
you shouldn't be using gh at 20 years of age.
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you shouldn't be using gh at 20 years of age.
WHY THE FUCK NOT? IM NOT LOOKING TO BE A LITTLE PUSSY OUT HERE. I WANNA LOOK ROUND & FULL.
ALL WOMAN WANNA BE WITH ME, ALL GUYS WANNA BE LIKE ME. GH IS THE LEAST HARMFUL OF THESE PEDS, ITS JUST EXPENSIVE...VERY.
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Hahahaha... This is the most bizarre post I've ever seen!! WTF are you trying to say?!? ???
THIS IS THE SAME GUY WH0 SAYS ALL Y0U NEED IS 1-4 PERCENT 0F Y0UR DIET AS PR0TEIN AND THE REAS0N F0R THAT IS BECAUSE BABIES NEED THAT MUCH. JUST IGN0RE HIM HE'S CLEARLY INSANE.
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lol. just to recap.
1. A month ago he was on way to being a natural.
2. A few days ago he starts a thread about getting back into after a couple of months off.
3. He crushed plateaus.
4. Once you stop taking "gear" you will not lose the muscles, even though the hormones generated the muscle. His body defies logic.
5. He won't post pic because the batteries are dead or because "it will prove nothing"
6. If you want proof come and work out with him.
::) ::)
his next step will be to post a picture from a reflection through back yard sliding glass door at night during a lunar eclipse on Easter
Once again GetBig outs another poseur and phony. When will these tools learn this is not BB.com
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WHY THE FUCK NOT? IM NOT LOOKING TO BE A LITTLE PUSSY OUT HERE. I WANNA LOOK ROUND & FULL.
ALL WOMAN WANNA BE WITH ME, ALL GUYS WANNA BE LIKE ME. GH IS THE LEAST HARMFUL OF THESE PEDS, ITS JUST EXPENSIVE...VERY.
because you natural gh levels are adequate right now, if your only using 4iu, that isn't going to help you that much at 20 yrs of age. I would wait till your 23 - 25 to start it, and use it at 5 - 15 iu as you can handle. Whatever works for you, but 4iu isn't going to get you a pro card.
Also please don't use insulin. I don't think anyone wants to remember the current generation of bodybuilders we have now that are built on slin and gh.
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welcome to the movie .....
UTOPIA ,,
written directed and produced by the one and only
disco spilberstu
gh15 approved
LOOOOOOOOOOL
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You couldn't do it, i guess that means no one can.
What do you bench? i want to know what the limit for tht is too ty. ::)
You sound like youre fucking huge. Post a pic. ::)
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no sleep = no foundation.
What an imbecile! :(
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no sleep = no foundation.
What an imbecile! :(
NO FOUNDATION? FUCK U MEAN?
I HAVEN'T BLOWN UP FROM THE FAT FROM INSULINA OR GH. I HAVENT EVEN USED EITHER. I BARELY USE ABOVE BEGINNER TESTOSTERONA....
DUMB FOO.
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this
totally irational....
lets examine his logic (or lack of) he has a set formula of what a natural bb falls under...
he sees someone that falls outside of that bracket ... straight away they are a liar and on drugs....
??... so he made the rules on whats natural we are to assume...
and you have idiots who actually follow this gimmick....
even if he turns out to be a pro... which makes no difference to me
he is a complete idiot.
..
thats all
mes
fuck up liar
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WHY THE FUCK NOT? IM NOT LOOKING TO BE A LITTLE PUSSY OUT HERE. I WANNA LOOK ROUND & FULL.
ALL WOMAN WANNA BE WITH ME, ALL GUYS WANNA BE LIKE ME. GH IS THE LEAST HARMFUL OF THESE PEDS, ITS JUST EXPENSIVE...VERY.
At 20 buy gear food and bang every single female you can. Period!
GH won't do shit for you unless you can afford 6-8 IU's ED and up. I am telling it to you straight kid, if you don't believe me then don't. Go ahead and buy it, fantasizing about what you will look like, and when two months go by and you don't see shit happening do not come crying to me...
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fuck up liar
I belived mesmorph is natural, "getbig natural" that is.
500mg testosterone, 5 i.u. HGH, 400mg Tren, 400mg Masteron, peptides and goat cheese.
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I belived mesmorph is natural, "getbig natural" that is.
500mg testosterone, 5 i.u. HGH, 400mg Tren, 400mg Masteron, peptides and goat cheese.
lol